And we pay for their education?

[Ocean1]

‘Bout time we called in the bailiffs on some of that outstanding student loan I reckon.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4059887/Brain-drain-costs-14k-per-expat

[Jonno.]

Funny just got $500 for overpayment today :sunny:

[Squiggles]

What should we stay for?

[98tls]

Other nations included in the study were "Ghana,Micronesia,PNG,Tonga".:rofl:Im confused,are they talking emigration or immigration.

[Indiana_Jones]

What should we stay for?

To service your debt?

Just don't expect to come back, that's all.

-Indy

[Brian d marge]

ahh the student loan ..

Bit of a con this whole thing , Yes i know the details suffice to say , the whole University thing is a ,,,, of s...

Do you REALLY need a university degree??? or a proven and experience history ( which is free)

This is another American concept forced upon us by the world bank ( stick it to em Invercargill !!!)

So most people in their 40s and 50 would have a Student loan ( shown as an asset?? on the balance sheet?)
So on top of higher taxes ( which we need to do to pay for the oldies ) AND a student loan , Give me ONE good reason why ANY self respecting kid would stay

SOME even go abroad and PAY back the loan :shit:

And the size of those loans , I remember being in David carter office up in the beehive and him telling me that its only 1/4 of the total amount

Well that changed either that or the total amount is HUGE

Did anyone here start their working career with a 40 000 dollar loan BEFORE buying a house .

a lot young kids do ( and are the high paying Jobs AVAILABLE in NZ ???)

If a finger needs to be pointed , the order would be , Tertiary institutions ( How much did those wooden blinds cost CHCH poly? )

Government ( both parties )

IMF / world bank for enforcing American economic on NZ

Richard Briers , for being NICE

Stephen

Japan ( with a nice house, bike and no debt )

if I pay 14 000 wouldnt that be a lot cheaper than the original Loan ( come on Students do your bit , pay the 14 000)

[rainman]

‘Bout time we called in the bailiffs on some of that outstanding student loan I reckon.

Maybe we could fix our poor wages instead, and make it worth staying.


What should we stay for?

Indeed - this is just a structural attribute of globalised capitalism. Imports may be cheap, but our best and brightest bugger off for more cash elsewhere. 'Bout time we figured out that we have to make some serious change to fix this...


Do you REALLY need a university degree??? or a proven and experience history ( which is free)

Often hard to get one without the other.

[Ocean1]

Maybe we could fix our poor wages instead, and make it worth staying.

Couldn't agree more, ditch the dole, cut labour rates to what they're worth and pay the bright boys and girls what they can get off shore. Anything else is plan for failure.


Indeed - this is just a structural attribute of globalised consumerism. Imports may be cheap, but our best and brightest bugger off for more cash elsewhere. 'Bout time we figured out that we have to make some serious change to fix this...

Fixed.

[Brian d marge]

Also I think the nature of work has changed , Now I cant get my head around it fully , but I do use it ( the style of work that is )
a lot of my work n the mornings uses the INTERNET and CD CAE etc ,

Heavy use of the computer of ( logging into KB etc) editing of documents , drawings and proposals

I use Iphone , ( Google doc) net-book ( travel) and a main desktop, the point of all this is that my skill set is very flexible . CAD, CGI, Engineering, Computer and staff management ( I think young kids are the same , or heading that way )

I still cannot program our DVD recorder but, hell Im over 40

Back on topic, I have a web site and a portfolio these are my tools, I sell my soul with , The trouble with this is that the work is not stable. ( I have a part time job in the evening that cures the wifes complaining)

I don't know how the Jop seeking environment will change in the near future , but I know that a high level of skill is required , not at the theory level but a practical hands on level ( am I describing the apprenticeship scheme?)

Skill can be seeked ( bad spelling intended) out and with careful use of the education industry, enhanced

a Job can be gotted ( work experience ) and a history can be built

But just going to Uni , getting a degree and then looking for a Job,,,, well there are a few in the same boat ( when a employer has to search through 250 odd CVs for an opening ,,,,,

As for the Dole , We have hello work here ( great name ) , it lasts for 3 months depending on the insurance you pay ( you pay for your own dole).

After that NOTHING, and trust me you DON'T want to go down that path ...some sort of metered social net IS needed

I am in favour of sand-shoes and tree planting myself , or land reconstruction ,,,Cycleways???


At the end of the day NZ is too small and too poor to compete in a global market place, in general, yes we excel in a lot of areas but to retain the top or even some of the talent needed , it has what??? its a nice place to live ,,,, thats not going to help much ,,, how about support for the career / research / technical funding etc

oh i can hear Nurse coming up the stairs , it must be medicine time , must dash

Stephen

[avgas]

Just to clear a few things up.

- The article is in lost money to govt. This includes a theoretical income tax (which is probably the biggest chunk). If this is the case - then a graduate who stays in NZ and sits on the dole would cost 3 times this figure in theory. So if that were the case I would much rather have the kid who leaves the country and comes back in 10 years with work experience, than the useless kid who did nothing with his life but a B.Arts and sat on the dole.

- When you leave, you lose you "interest free" section on your loan, not only that but they require an annual minimum payment from you otherwise they slap a substantial fee on your loan.

- Not all students "never pay up" in regards to loan. I can speak from experience, I have worked damn hard in the past to pay mine off. I can honestly say that I have paid at least 50 of my 80,000+ off. All while my mates bought new bikes, where my only new bike ever was a 1998 RG150.

- The drain happened well before the 'brain drain'. Why do we have a shortage of mechanics, plumbers, electricians..... Where are all the 'mines' workers? Where are the hard workers gone?
Thats right - they got sick of all the crap here and left. Well before the students even thought about it.

[Banditbandit]

‘Bout time we called in the bailiffs on some of that outstanding student loan I reckon.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4059887/Brain-drain-costs-14k-per-expat

And who paid for your education ? If you did get one, that is ?

[scracha]

‘Bout time we called in the bailiffs on some of that outstanding student loan I reckon.


An how are you going to manage that? Send out the special forces and kidnap them back into the country? Otherwise they'll give the "foreign" bailiffs 2 fingers.

They'd be much better giving incentives for skilled (the thickies can stay abroad) ex-pats to come back into the country and just write off the student loans. They'll claw it back soon enough through normal taxation.

[Brian d marge]

they cant even get the two people who borrowed 100 000 ( or more ) from westpac and buggered off to china

IF I did come back to NZ , I would try and be as self sufficient as possible, because , ya cant subtract nowt from nowt

it is very possible , was just doing a bit of looking into ......

Stephen

[neels]

There are a couple of fundamental problems with being a small but relatively wealthy country, with easy access to higher education.

Firstly, more people will end up educated than are actually required in a small job market, hence a number of them will head overseas in search of work. Some will then complain when they come back at nearly retiring age and can't find a job like this guy (http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch/4057946/Returning-Kiwis-unpleasant-surprise)

Secondly, people will do interesting but largely pointless degrees, and then rather than pay off their studen loans on the wages you make asking if you want fries with that they bugger off overseas to work in a bar and live in poverty in London instead.

Doesn't really matter either way, if they don't come back the unemployable haven't cost us anything on the dole, if they come back when they want to come home and send their kiddies to a taxpayer funded school their debt is waiting for them.

[Ocean1]

And who paid for your education ? If you did get one, that is ?

The early bits were public funded. The later bits I paid for.


An how are you going to manage that?

I'm not. That's the point, was rank stupidity to simply offer free loans across the board. Better to promote the skills that produce wealth, let the arts feteshists pay for their basket weaving 101 themselves.


There are a couple of fundamental problems with being a small but relatively wealthy country, with easy access to higher education.

What makes us wealthy?

[avgas]

I'm not. That's the point, was rank stupidity to simply offer free loans across the board. Better to promote the skills that produce wealth, let the arts feteshists pay for their basket weaving 101 themselves.
I have no problem with the loan system. This is something that has to happen to create wealth. With any wealth, there needs to be some form of investment.
While art seems like a waste of space (in my eyes), so does climbing the worlds biggest mountain for sport.
Or throwing around a pig skin.

But regardless this is their contribution. And if they get paid for it - its still better than a dole bludger.
Or telesales.

[schrodingers cat]

American economics



Yep. Its sure working for them at the moment...

[Ocean1]

I have no problem with the loan system. This is something that has to happen to create wealth. With any wealth, there needs to be some form of investment.


And returns on that investment there certainly will be. In Europe.


And if they get paid for it - its still better than a dole bludger.
Or telesales.

But they don't, the vast majority of BA recipients fail to make it pay anything.

Unless they teach. In which case, we're routinely assured thay do it for love.

[avgas]

And returns on that investment there certainly will be. In Europe.
But they don't, the vast majority of BA recipients fail to make it pay anything.
Unless they teach. In which case, we're routinely assured thay do it for love.
So what are you going to do to change it.
Create jobs?
Or did someone walk on your lawn today?

If you re-read that article, its is lost income tax. So the context is that students are learning here (on a loan scheme) and going overseas to bigger brighter things - aka govt loses money.

Funny thing charlie, is at the same time as they go overseas - and we lose income tax
- We don't have to pay for them to stay. AKA bludgers
- We don't have to pay for their healthcare
- Most pay the loans back
- We get even more money through GST on international students

So remind me again how we lost something (other than the obvious IP) and gained nothing in return.

I am more concerned about the skilled workers (who may not have been students. Ditching NZ because digging holes in the aus desert pays 100K. Not for the $, but for the fact that they can help teach in NZ rather than immigrant teachers that are now required.

[Brian d marge]

There are a couple of fundamental problems with being a small but relatively wealthy country, with easy access to higher education.

Firstly, more people will end up educated than are actually required in a small job market, hence a number of them will head overseas in search of work. Some will then complain when they come back at nearly retiring age and can't find a job like this guy (http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch/4057946/Returning-Kiwis-unpleasant-surprise)

Secondly, people will do interesting but largely pointless degrees, and then rather than pay off their studen loans on the wages you make asking if you want fries with that they bugger off overseas to work in a bar and live in poverty in London instead.

Doesn't really matter either way, if they don't come back the unemployable haven't cost us anything on the dole, if they come back when they want to come home and send their kiddies to a taxpayer funded school their debt is waiting for them.
Ha ?
the guy is educated and has experience , I ( as an employer would chew my right arm off for his knowledge)
Remember the heart surgeon saga ? this guy was the leading authority on open heart surgery , this guy wrote the book
He comes to NZ , NZ says , you must pass a test ( he does with flying colors ) , oh then you must ,,,and there was something else , cant remember ,
long story short , he accepts a posting from an Irish university loads of money ., all the research dollars he wants and a good life
well done NZ
Typical NZ , honestly I f I came back to NZ , at the age I am now , I would be looking at stacking shelves for woollies
yes there are Jobs i could do , and due to my experience would do very well ( sales engineer ) but due to the short sightedness of the recruiter , I wouldn't be holding my breath
you need to pull in around 1k a week to have a reasonable life style in NZ ( or have family , or be old )
Sorry but i have one shot at this life I'm not to keen on pushing shit up hill , and as for god-zone , hell even Australia has some nice scenery !

Get rid of the Anglo puritans , bring in the Chinese can do

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Yep. Its sure working for them at the moment...

Hell yeah , gets any better and my wife would be Shomkingly HOT :gob:

Stephen