Ducati quiting wsb [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

Crasherfromwayback

28th August 2010, 16:10

and the fact that the 4 cyl bikes are proving very hard to beat.The writing has been on the wall for a few years now,ever since they derestricted the thousands

True too. I'm amazed though, as I think it'll really hurt Ducati sales not being involved in WSB.

How many 916's and 1098's do you think they've sold due to Polen, Fogarty and Bayliss winning races? And it's not as if the owners of the series haven't tried to always make sure the Ducati's could win!

They'd better hope Rossi is worth the money they're paying him. While for sure Rossi and a Ducati is the ultimate 'Italian Dream team', will it sell them many bikes?

I seriously doubt he's got another Moto GP title in him.

Nutter34

28th August 2010, 17:31

It'll be interesting to see if Marlboro stay with Ducati (in GP). I was under the impression a LOT of the money for Rossi would be coming from them...

Ducati are just spoilt kids. They've had the rules changed time and again to suit themselves. With Aprillia doing well with somewhat 'special' treatment (gear driven cams being allowed), it seems they've just spat the dummy.
Also, the whole 'going towards prototypes' thing... They would have been involved in that, so they can hardly suddenly use that as an excuse. The now 'Superstock', that's what the whole series was supposed to be based on anyway. How far have they gone from there...

As for lack of pace... They need to sort riders. Bayliss jumped on the bike during Ducati weekend and was quicker than both of them.

I guess Checa will be #1 rider from now on, since they'll still be supporting the satellite teams.

onearmedbandit

28th August 2010, 18:17

+1. I have read too that Marlboro insisted they stayed on as a sponsor.

sosman

28th August 2010, 20:59

Ducati has won 13 of the 22 titles since the World Superbike Championship began in 1988.
Ducati will not compete in the 2011 World Superbike Championship in a factory-backed capacity, it has been announced.

The Italian manufacturer, the most successful brand in the history of the production-based series, has made the shock decision as part of plans to transfer its resources into product development instead.

As a result, it will scale back its direct involvement in the championship but will continue to provide some support to customer teams.

“This decision is part of a specific strategy made by Ducati, the aim being to further increase technological content in production models that will arrive on the market in the coming years,” said Ducati CEO Gabriele Del Torchio.

“In order to achieve this objective, the company's technical resources, until now engaged with the management of the factory Superbike team, will instead be dedicated to the development of the new generation of hypersport bikes, in both their homologated and Superbike race versions.

“I would like to thank Nori and Michel, and all of the riders that have contributed to the great history of Ducati in Superbike, but above all the Ducati employees; it is their hard work and professionalism that has allowed us to achieve such important results.

“A big thank you also to all of the partners that have supported us, first and foremost Xerox of course. I would also like to acknowledge the Flammini brothers who have managed the championship for so long, and the FIM, the organization with which we have continuous, constructive relations.”

Ducati's official withdrawal will come as a major blow to the World Superbike Championship, not least because of the manufacturer's immense success at this level over the years and marketing pull.

Since 1988, Ducati has won 16 titles, 285 wins and 704 podiums - no other manufacturer can get close to these tallies.

While Ducati has always been well represented by customer teams, not least in 2010 with Carlos Checa leading the factory outfit for Althea Racing, it remains to be seen exactly what support they will offer in 2011.

Nonetheless, Ducati maintains the customer teams will be well looked after.

"The task of testing innovative technical solutions in Superbike racing will therefore be entrusted to external
teams in the coming years, teams that will have the chance to receive technical support from Ducati
personnel.

"This choice will allow the teams to benefit from even more competitive machines and parts."

Ducati's announcement comes as they are on the cusp of losing their manufacturers' crown to Italian rivals Aprilia.

BIG DOUG

28th August 2010, 21:33

CHOPPA

28th August 2010, 21:35

Gotta pay Rossis wage somehow

DEATH_INC.

28th August 2010, 21:39

Paul in NZ

28th August 2010, 22:04

FUCKING WIMPS,what a cop out just as the playing field becomes level they throw there toys out of the toybox(again),what do they want the capacity raised to 1400cc before they have factory bike's on the grid again.

I think thats very unfair doug... Its crazy to think Ducati would demand such a big engine... They would be MORE than happy to stick with what they currently have ( if the others were limited to GN250's instead... )

:innocent:

Wingnut

29th August 2010, 06:42

Haga to the AMA?

Fabrizio can head home and nail his new wife!

Guess there will be no reutrn from Bayliss then? The Xerox team cant get embarassed if they dont race!

Still its no good to see the demise of a factory team

Grumph

29th August 2010, 08:11

While money is always a factor I'd suspect the withdrawal has more to do with the trend in all formulas of requiring motors to do longer and longer periods of use before replacement.
It's always been a problem keeping the twins together at this performance level - getting the required power from fours is a lot easier and stress levels are lower too.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them come back in a few years with a four....

Movistar

29th August 2010, 10:34

Which leaves Lorenzo and Spies riding Movistar Yamaha next year?

There's no way I'm having Lorenzo and Spies anywhere near me, alright!

Paul in NZ

30th August 2010, 12:10

From stuff today...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/blogs/drivetalk/4073456/Ferrari-and-Ducati-embarrass-Italians

Many Italians are embarrassed by the defection from Superbikes, as my Via Caducci barrista observes: "Superbikes were designed for Ducati, they even let us run with larger bikes than anyone else. And now, finito!"

Jeeze - it takes a bit to embarass an Italian....:innocent:

Oscar

30th August 2010, 12:22

Why would you remain in WSBK, when in two years time you can put more bikes on the grid in MotoGP (Moto1)?

Maido

30th August 2010, 12:57

I wouldn't believe for a second that the rules are unfair to the twins, apart from spies (the freak of nature) last year, look who got 2nd and 3rd in the championship, and then look at the points gap back to 4th. Surely their bike didn't lose that much speed with no rule changes?

eelracing

2nd September 2010, 09:17

(Moto1)?

Ssshhhh don't tell WSBK or BMW and Aprillia will be next.

onearmedbandit

2nd September 2010, 09:21

I seriously doubt he's got another Moto GP title in him.

How's that?

Crasherfromwayback

2nd September 2010, 09:32

How's that?

Purely because I think that Lorenzo is too fast for everybody right now...and he'll be around for a while baring serious injury.

eelracing

2nd September 2010, 09:52

Purely because I think that Lorenzo is too fast for everybody right now...and he'll be around for a while baring serious injury.

Come now Crasher thats defeatest talk,what with the Honda just coming right and Casey's move is where the smart money will be at.

Spies as Jorge's team mate is a battle worth savouring and Ducati aint gonna be making up the numbers now as in WSBK.

Kiwi Graham

2nd September 2010, 09:54

I wouldn't be surprised to see them come back in a few years with a four....

They've already got one!

Crasherfromwayback

2nd September 2010, 10:03

Come now Crasher thats defeatest talk,what with the Honda just coming right and Casey's move is where the smart money will be at.

Spies as Jorge's team mate is a battle worth savouring and Ducati aint gonna be making up the numbers now as in WSBK.

Stoner is still the fastest guy I've ever seen ride a motorcycle...but his head seems fucked!

Spies is awesome...but I can't help but feel his timing is bad. It's a rough time to arrive in Moto GP right now!

NZsarge

2nd September 2010, 10:15

Spies is awesome...but I can't help but feel his timing is bad. It's a rough time to arrive in Moto GP right now!

I can see you you're coming from but it's too early to draw any real conclusions there, I think and I hope Spies has got what it takes to pull off a championship or two, he keeps proving that he's an extremely exceptional talent. Not unlike a lot of those guys though.. He's the 5th Alien.. :Punk:

White trash

2nd September 2010, 10:25

Spies is going to be a contender sooner rather than later. He seems to have overcome his headfuck at the grip level of new tyres that he commented on repeatedly early on in the season. Proving to himself he can run at the front was probably his biggest issue, and he's done it. Next year, full factory team, a years further experience, he'll be winning a race here and there without a doubt.

eelracing

2nd September 2010, 10:26

Stoner's head seems fucked!

Nah man that's just Italians for ya...when everything is sweet they would give you the shirt off of their backs,but they can turn on ya if you aint a team player and Casey is a no brash Aussie afterall.

If Spies has proved one thing (Mladin,Wsbk)and now how he has taken to MotoGP...he's a fighter.
Reminds me of a young Doohan.

roogazza

2nd September 2010, 10:31

Stoner is still the fastest guy I've ever seen ride a motorcycle...but his head seems fucked!

Welcome aboard ! LOL ! But I'll give him next year on the Honda to prove it either way.
I'm hoping Rossi has Number 10 in him, in Red (and yellow).
I have it from one source only so far, that Burgess is going with him as of yesterday, you heard that ? G.

Crasherfromwayback

2nd September 2010, 11:01

I can see you you're coming from but it's too early to draw any real conclusions there, I think and I hope Spies has got what it takes to pull off a championship or two, he keeps proving that he's an extremely exceptional talent. Not unlike a lot of those guys though.. He's the 5th Alien.. :Punk:

Spies is going to be a contender sooner rather than later. He seems to have overcome his headfuck at the grip level of new tyres that he commented on repeatedly early on in the season. Proving to himself he can run at the front was probably his biggest issue, and he's done it. Next year, full factory team, a years further experience, he'll be winning a race here and there without a doubt.

Nah man that's just Italians for ya...when everything is sweet they would give you the shirt off of their backs,but they can turn on ya if you aint a team player and Casey is a no brash Aussie afterall.

If Spies has proved one thing (Mladin,Wsbk)and now how he has taken to MotoGP...he's a fighter.
Reminds me of a young Doohan.

I'm a huge Spies fan. I think he's an animal. I'm just not sure anyone has an answer for Lorenzo's speed and consistency. Can't wait to see what happens next season though. If Stoner gels with the Honda it'll be fireworks all round.

Mental Trousers

2nd September 2010, 11:50

Why would you remain in WSBK, when in two years time you can put more bikes on the grid in MotoGP (Moto1)?

MotoGP doesn't sell bikes. There's a proven link between winning on Sunday and selling bikes on Monday in production based racing.

While money is always a factor I'd suspect the withdrawal has more to do with the trend in all formulas of requiring motors to do longer and longer periods of use before replacement.
It's always been a problem keeping the twins together at this performance level - getting the required power from fours is a lot easier and stress levels are lower too.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them come back in a few years with a four....

Exactly. It's a little surprising that Ducati aren't going to go down fighting. But it wouldn't surprise me if they suddenly announced sometime that they're developing a V4

Purely because I think that Lorenzo is too fast for everybody right now...and he'll be around for a while baring serious injury.

What I find interesting is whether Lorenzo has the ability to develop a bike. Rossi and Burgess are the number one reason the M1 is the leading bike in the paddock. Pay particular attention to the Yamaha's at the start of next season.

Stoner is still the fastest guy I've ever seen ride a motorcycle...but his head seems fucked!

Spies is awesome...but I can't help but feel his timing is bad. It's a rough time to arrive in Moto GP right now!

Kevin Swantz is the fastest I've ever seen on a bike, faster than Stoner.

Spies won't let that sort of thing mess with his head. After all, he spent a number of seasons going head to head with Matt Mladin in the AMA. If that doesn't teach you a thing or two about how to keep your head nothing will.

Crasherfromwayback

2nd September 2010, 11:56

What I find interesting is whether Lorenzo has the ability to develop a bike. Rossi and Burgess are the number one reason the M1 is the leading bike in the paddock. Pay particular attention to the Yamaha's at the start of next season.

I think he'll be fine. He's had the bike well set up without Rossi's settings. Sometimes better than Rossi's managed to set his up by the look of it.

Kevin Swantz is the fastest I've ever seen on a bike, faster than Stoner.

He sure was fast. But I've never seen him on the lock stops at 240kph.

Spies won't let that sort of thing mess with his head. After all, he spent a number of seasons going head to head with Matt Mladin in the AMA. If that doesn't teach you a thing or two about how to keep your head nothing will.

I agree with that. Mladin was a hard cunt.

Mental Trousers

2nd September 2010, 12:56

He sure was fast. But I've never seen him on the lock stops at 240kph.

You don't see Stoner doing this sort of stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJC6q5_LtSI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idzHUe8QdWw&feature=related

Crasherfromwayback

2nd September 2010, 13:20

You don't see Stoner doing this sort of stuff

Couldn't view the second one...but nothing that flash about the first one. Anyone can draft another rider mate!

onearmedbandit

2nd September 2010, 13:32

Schwantz over Stoner any day. Watching Kevin wrestle that RGV500 around, out braking everyone, saving slides on his knees, side by side at 200mph at Hockenheim. And although the championship he won was not done in circumstances that he would have liked, he thoroughly deserved it.

Crasherfromwayback

2nd September 2010, 13:39

And although the championship he won was not done in circumstances that he would have liked, he thoroughly deserved it.

No argument from me on that one!

White trash

2nd September 2010, 14:41

Kevin Swantz is the fastest I've ever seen on a bike, faster than Stoner.

Ahem!!! I think you're forgeeeeeeeting someone..........

Ask Roogazza how phenominally fucken fast I am mate.....

Mental Trousers

2nd September 2010, 15:48

Ahem!!! I think you're forgeeeeeeeting someone..........

Ask Roogazza how phenominally fucken fast I am mate.....

We all know you're a farken legend Jimmy, but the rest of the world doesn't!!

Oscar

2nd September 2010, 16:02

Ssshhhh don't tell WSBK or BMW and Aprillia will be next.

BMW have already tested their Moto1 chassis.

Oscar

2nd September 2010, 16:08

MotoGP doesn't sell bikes. There's a proven link between winning on Sunday and selling bikes on Monday in production based racing.

That's an interesting call.

In the short term you're probably right (although the number of Repsol Honda's and Vale Yamaha's they've sold would seem to contradict you). However in the long term the success of companies like Honda and Yamaha is linked to their GP success since 1960.

Notwithstanding that, even if it doesn't sell bikes, it sells image and a shitload of everything else from FIAT 500's to Spanish Cell Phones. It is where the money is.

slowpoke

3rd September 2010, 09:38

MotoGP doesn't sell bikes. There's a proven link between winning on Sunday and selling bikes on Monday in production based racing.

Dunno 'bout that, the hype about various road bikes lifting technology straight out of MotoGP is a huge selling point. And not everywhere is like NZ: we pay a fair bit of attention to WSB but elsewhere in the world MotoGP is the main show with WSB very much the poor cousin.

Kevin Swantz is the fastest I've ever seen on a bike, faster than Stoner.

Funny, he never really struck me as super quick, more like a man riding beyond his and the bikes limits in an effort to keep up with everyone else. He was bloody good at riding over the limit but I just got the impression that Lawson, Rainey and co were able to ride faster easier. Beattie did pretty well on the RG too so the bike can't have been too far off the pace.

Spies won't let that sort of thing mess with his head. After all, he spent a number of seasons going head to head with Matt Mladin in the AMA. If that doesn't teach you a thing or two about how to keep your head nothing will.

Yep, if there's one thing Spies has proved it's that he's got the ability to keep improving.

Mental Trousers

3rd September 2010, 10:43

Dunno 'bout that, the hype about various road bikes lifting technology straight out of MotoGP is a huge selling point. And not everywhere is like NZ: we pay a fair bit of attention to WSB but elsewhere in the world MotoGP is the main show with WSB very much the poor cousin.

Mate, my microwave oven has technology in it derived from NASA's space programmes. Secondary and tertiary benefits are impossible to quantify in dollar terms so they aren't used as justification to spend crap loads of money. For the space programme technological advances were used to sway the public to support it but the primary aim of landing people on the moon was to beat the Russians and be number 1.

MotoGP is a lot more like Formula 1 in that it generates prestige/reputation that helps overall, but it's extremely difficult to put a dollar value on it even though profits from secondary and tertiary benefits can amount to many times the original cost.

That's an interesting call.

In the short term you're probably right (although the number of Repsol Honda's and Vale Yamaha's they've sold would seem to contradict you). However in the long term the success of companies like Honda and Yamaha is linked to their GP success since 1960.

Notwithstanding that, even if it doesn't sell bikes, it sells image and a shitload of everything else from FIAT 500's to Spanish Cell Phones. It is where the money is.

ie prestige and reputation, which then help sell other products.

Marmoot

3rd September 2010, 11:47

Ahem!!! I think you're forgeeeeeeeting someone..........

Ask Roogazza how phenominally fucken fast I am mate.....

You're fast, Jimmy. But the points are scored at the finish line, not the start line :D

Mental Trousers

3rd September 2010, 11:59

You're fast, Jimmy. But the points are scored at the finish line, not the start line :D

Not by winning the warm up lap you mean.

onearmedbandit

3rd September 2010, 12:09

Funny, he never really struck me as super quick, more like a man riding beyond his and the bikes limits in an effort to keep up with everyone else. He was bloody good at riding over the limit but I just got the impression that Lawson, Rainey and co were able to ride faster easier. Beattie did pretty well on the RG too so the bike can't have been too far off the pace.

Ever watched him racing the GSXR superbike back in the 80's? I think you'd find it hard to say he wasn't fast, and smooth as well. The RGV500 that he battled with in the late 80's and early 90's was a far different beast to the one the Beattie rode, and even so it was an RGV500 that ended Darryl's career. Most people who rode any of the early RGV500's stepped off saying it wasn't a pleasant bike to ride, so while Schwantz most definitely had the pace and talent in him to take it to Doohan/Gardner/Rainey etc, he had his work cut out for him in the form of the bike he rode.

White trash

3rd September 2010, 12:10

You're fast, Jimmy. But the points are scored at the finish line, not the start line :D

Not by winning the warm up lap you mean.

I see. A pair of funny fuckers eh?

Ahhhhh you know me well chaps, I can't deny :)

Mental Trousers

3rd September 2010, 12:43

Ever watched him racing the GSXR superbike back in the 80's? I think you'd find it hard to say he wasn't fast, and smooth as well. The RGV500 that he battled with in the late 80's and early 90's was a far different beast to the one the Beattie rode, and even so it was an RGV500 that ended Darryl's career. Most people who rode any of the early RGV500's stepped off saying it wasn't a pleasant bike to ride, so while Schwantz most definitely had the pace and talent in him to take it to Doohan/Gardner/Rainey etc, he had his work cut out for him in the form of the bike he rode.

It was a bit like the current Suzuki MotoGP bike; it had flaws that are quite nasty at times and it was a bike that did bad things for many careers. It's amazing that Schwantz was able to hold onto the thing and win on it.

eelracing

4th September 2010, 05:21

SS90

4th September 2010, 05:55

just thought this is worth dragging out again...Schwantzy even has time to give Rainey the glad eye.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9fok9Y22FEM?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9fok9Y22FEM?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Makes Rossi's last lap/corner move last year (some wag's rate as the best ever) on Lorenzo at Catalunya look like a sunday cruise.

Just for the music nerds the song with that clip was "willst du mitt Mir gene" (do you want to come with me) By Nina (of 99 red balloons fame)

Oh, and these guys make riders today look like the sissy they are.... All except the guys that came from 5hundies... Rossi, Capriossi,Checa, and so on where riding like that when the smokers ruled the track.... Pooftahs Like Stoner, Lorenzo And so on wouldn't last through first practice riding machinery like that, and the guys in The sixties and 70's tougher again.

Bah, Let's face it.... Most of todays Rider (but not all) are pole Smoking wooftahs compared to these guys.

White trash

4th September 2010, 07:52

BAck in the day when real GP racing took place. Recd by real racers.

Not fucking primadonnas playing it up for the media with stupid costumes and 10 million Euro salaries. No games, just proper hard cunts taking it to each other on track.

Crasherfromwayback

4th September 2010, 11:56

Oh, and these guys make riders today look like the sissy they are....

Bah, Let's face it.... Most of todays Rider (but not all) are pole Smoking wooftahs compared to these guys.

Mate...you're full of shit. They're all hard cunts. ALL of them have had HUGE nasty get offs and keep coming back for more. They're going WAY faster than they used to as well.

slowpoke

4th September 2010, 13:47

Mate...you're full of shit. They're all hard cunts. ALL of them have had HUGE nasty get offs and keep coming back for more. They're going WAY faster than they used to as well.

Yep, gotta agree with that. We're talking about the best of the best, and even the slowest dude in MotoGP is a fuggin amazing talent. Totally different skillset compared to "back in the day" but you don't get to that level without being a driven hard bastard who can take the knocks. Look at Bautista, Rossi and Hayden racing with busted up bits and pieces in the last few races....and here we are taking a day off work when we've got the sniffles or a hangover. Plenty of playboys who larked it up for the media back in the day too, so nuthin' new now.

SS90

4th September 2010, 20:42

Mate...you're full of shit. They're all hard cunts. ALL of them have had HUGE nasty get offs and keep coming back for more. They're going WAY faster than they used to as well.

Pffft, I suspect you may be a bit young to remember what real racers are like, so I will only back a decade or so

The days of no traction control, slipper clutches, radial calipers,fuel injection, and so on..... when the rider was 70% of the machine.........

From these two images, who is the most likely to kiss boys...... number 1 or number 2

I will give you a clue, hetrosexual hard racing men are most unlikely to wear silver suits.

Crasherfromwayback

4th September 2010, 21:05

Pffft, I suspect you may be a bit young to remember what real racers are like, so I will only back a decade or so

The days of no traction control, slipper clutches, radial calipers,fuel injection, and so on..... when the rider was 70% of the machine.........

From these two images, who is the most likely to kiss boys...... number 1 or number 2

I will give you a clue, hetrosexual hard racing men are most unlikely to wear silver suits.

Well seeing as I'm 43 and have been watching road racing since I was ten...I reckon I've seen a fair bit. I've been to god knows how many GP's...both when they were 500's and in the four stroke era.

I've also raced at national level and won. So while I'm no GP racer...I know a bit about what it takes. So for you to call any single racer at that level soft or a pussy shows just how little you know.

Your not worthy of their ball bag sweat. But you'd probably like to taste it.

Crasherfromwayback

4th September 2010, 21:10

From these two images, who is the most likely to kiss boys...... number 1 or number 2

I will give you a clue, hetrosexual hard racing men are most unlikely to wear silver suits.

By the way Mr hard man scooter boy...dunno if you realize that Mr Silver Suit raced with two broken ankles not so long ago. He's also thrown himself through the air in a nasty fashion quite often. You reckon Lorenzo ain't a hard cunt? Maybe it's you that hasn't been round for long.

Bet if you even rolled yours you'd be wanting to suck ya mummy's tits.

SS90

4th September 2010, 23:18

It's always funny how the annonaminty of the net can give false impressions..... I too have raced at a national level (and won), and raced with a broken ankle ( sure didn't win that weekend)

Don't get ya Nickerson in twist though, rating riders can be a polarizing thing.

I am lucky enough to live in Europe, and get to go to most European rounds for the last 4 years, and I have seen how they are quite tough, and I am not saying I am better than them, but I don't put the current top guys in the same league as guys like Doohan, Scwantz,Rainey,Mamola, Even Mckoy, and Williams.

When the financial rewards are as high as they are now, and the medical treatment and rehabilitation so good, the motivation and ability to get back on the bike are somewhat high.

None of the current crop of racers have to turn up to the meeting, towing their bike in a trailer, mark out their pit with tape, on a grass field, work on their own bike, race 3 classes (win them all) then drive home again.

Even 20 years ago that was common place.

I don't rate hardness of a rider by the ability to learn to accept the traction control will work in order to go fast (what was Spies biggest probllem this year..... Dealng with extra grip the tyros had???!!)

Just look at how the likes of Stoner,Lorenzo,Hayden and Spies have risen to the top in MotoGP, with out even doing one lap on a 500.... Rossi stall talks of th incredible power delivery of the 500's ( listen to his comment on the DVD "faster")

These guys have entered the class and, pretty much with-in a few months set lap records..... Put them on a 500 and see what happens.

Like I say, hardness of a rider in my book doesn't revolve around their ability to utilize the best physic in the world to get riding again, it is more about the whole package...

Silver spaceman suit indeed.... You do realize that not even the Spanish fans think that's cool, they look away in embarrassment when he acts like that... He is just trying upstage the showman antics that Rossi and Biagggi did......years ago.

Would not see Doohan doing that.

Steel leg braces for men, silver jumpsuits for cock gobblers.

I have attached a spy shot of the outfits Lorenzos' team are wearing for the final round of MotoGP this year.

Crasherfromwayback

5th September 2010, 18:38

Oh, and these guys make riders today look like the sissy they are.... All except the guys that came from 5hundies... Rossi, Capriossi,Checa, and so on where riding like that when the smokers ruled the track.... Pooftahs Like Stoner, Lorenzo And so on wouldn't last through first practice riding machinery like that,

Bah, Let's face it.... Most of todays Rider (but not all) are pole Smoking wooftahs compared to these guys.

I too have raced at a national level (and won), and raced with a broken ankle ( sure didn't win that weekend)

Don't get ya Nickerson in twist though, rating riders can be a polarizing thing.

the same league as guys like Doohan, Scwantz,Rainey,Mamola, Even Mckoy, and Williams.

None of the current crop of racers have to turn up to the meeting, towing their bike in a trailer, mark out their pit with tape, on a grass field, work on their own bike, race 3 classes (win them all) then drive home again.

Even 20 years ago that was common place.

I don't rate hardness of a rider by the ability to learn to accept the traction control will work in order to go fast (what was Spies biggest probllem this year..... Dealng with extra grip the tyros had???!!)

Silver spaceman suit indeed.... You do realize that not even the Spanish fans think that's cool, they look away in embarrassment when he acts like that... He is just trying upstage the showman antics that Rossi and Biagggi did......years ago.

Would not see Doohan doing that.

Steel leg braces for men, silver jumpsuits for cock gobblers.

Odd. You call Stoner and Lorenzo pooftas...but reckon Capirossi and Checa are hard cunts. Apart from 250's...Capirossi hasn't won a championship. Last time I checked...Stoner had. Lorenzo is about to. And Checa? Fuck off noddy. Why do you think he's where he is?

500's? Stoner would love to ride and race one. Just because he came along after the demise of them doesn't make him any less hard than the old farts that did ride them. In case you've had your head up your arse for a few years...Stoner has been asking for 1200cc engines and NO TRACTION control for a while now. Maybe because he's an ex flat track champ and loves going sideways eh? You must've seen the shots of him sideways at PI at 240kph? A pussy? Soft?

Fuck off. Lorenzo? Soft? What...because you don't like the way he celebrates? Again...fuck off. He's harder than you could dream of being.

20 years ago it was common practice to turn up to a GP towing your bike and trailer and mark out your own pit spot was it? Fuck off. 20 years ago was 19 fucking 90. Never once saw racers of that era do anything of the fucking sort. 1960's and 70's maybe. But so what?

What it actually comes down to is this...you're calling todays best GP racers pussies...because you don't like they way they celebrate...and you're jealous of them and the money they have yeah?

Because lets face it...the aliens aren't human weather you like to admit it or not. And they're all as hard as fuck.

t3mp0r4ry nzr

5th September 2010, 21:09

nah mate, settlemental fantasy. put lorrenzo, rossi, stoner etc on 500 hundies and they will go faster than dohan, rainey et al ever did!

eelracing

6th September 2010, 02:18

nah mate, settlemental fantasy. put lorrenzo, rossi, stoner etc on 500 hundies and they will go faster than dohan, rainey et al ever did!

Ah the age old question eh?

But I don't agree (cep't for Rossi)todays bikes have to many variables to add to the mix.
What with the current tech rules,engine management,traction/launch control,anti wheelie,engine braking etc it makes it hard for the really talented to show their stuff.

But maybe a quote from an ex 500 winner Christian Sarron sums it up (and he was a madman)"The four strokes are nice bikes...for girls." Maybe on todays bikes he could of been a MotoGP champion?

eelracing

6th September 2010, 02:37

The days of no traction control, slipper clutches, radial calipers,fuel injection, and so on..... when the rider was 70% of the machine.........

From these two images, who is the most likely to kiss boys...... number 1 or number 2

I will give you a clue, hetrosexual hard racing men are most unlikely to wear silver suits.

True that but hey these guys hardness or talent can't be questioned.

Good on ya for rarking Crasher out of his "head fucked Stoner" induced despair...I was worried there for a while.

SS90

6th September 2010, 02:38

nah mate, settlemental fantasy. put lorrenzo, rossi, stoner etc on 500 hundies and they will go faster than dohan, rainey et al ever did!

I have to say I don't agree.

Looking at the results since the 4 strokes came back in, ignoring Rossi for a moment, we have seen Hayden and Stoner become champions (and let's be real, bar an unfortunate accident or 2, Lorenzo is the next king for sure)

None of these guys are slow, nor untalented, and, proven winners.

But, look at just how easy it was for these guys to jump on the 4 strokes in the premier class, and each if these 3 guys, not only set lap records , but win races.... in their first season, now, we have, again, a talented rider, Spies, doing the same thing.

I cannot think of an example of any rider in recent memory going straight from a season on a 125, some time on a 250, then winning a championship in the premier class.

I will admit, that going by Lorenzo's ability, if he was on a 500, there is every chance he would be up the front as he is now, but Hayden and Stoner? I think not.

I too have read articles where Stoner has suggested he would like a championship with-out traction control etc, and there is part of me that feels sorry for him, because he will always have the stigma of being the first champion in a championship determined by who has the best traction control.

But, the fact remains - he has never firs a shot in anger on an "old school" 500, like Rossi and the last of the old guard, so we will in all fact never really know, I simply base my opinion on how fast the "other 3 champions of MotoGP (Stoner,Hayden, Lorenzo)"came to the top in an era when electronic wizzardry was the deciding factor, not only that, but they did it just after their rookie season........ much faster than has been done before.

The 500 bred the real racers, the current lot seem born in a test tube to me.

Crasherfromwayback

6th September 2010, 07:58

I cannot think of an example of any rider in recent memory going straight from a season on a 125, some time on a 250, then winning a championship in the premier class.

Biaggi came reasonably close mate. Against Doohan no less.

SS90

6th September 2010, 08:24

Biaggi came reasonably close mate. Against Doohan no less.

Ah yes, Biaggi, I really rate him.

So many people dismiss him..... But I still say he was "one of the breed"

Gibernau, I am told was a prima donna and his family became wealthy through ownership of the old Spanish firm Bultaco, and he was a case of "enough money and time on the bike, and you can do it".... I don't know if that is correct, because he was ( note WAS) really quick, and was the first to Push Rossi after he dominated for so long, but the fact remains, when Biaggi ( he was on the 500 too) and Gibernau where at the front with Rossi, the electro gadgetry was not as big a part of the bike as it is now.

I don't think that anyone could ride like the guys today, not even close, but with the advances in electronics (just like F1) the teams con so easily set almost every aspect of a bike to suit the rider.

A good example is 4 years ago at PI.... The Kawasaki riders spent the whole damned week doing lap after lap after Lap getting ready for the qualifying, Honda a little bit less, but the Yamaha team turns up, Rossi does an hour or so, ( they already have the data they need), make sure the settings are right, Rossi wins, great!

Now that Yamaha and Honda have so much successful data to start a baseline from, I notice the teams are all putting in more time before qualifying (the field has been leveled through competition...which is a good thing) just to get the edge.

Just at this point, it seems that Honda have the edge ( motivation I guess), and I love it.

I still want "King Capo" to cow good on the wretched Suzuki, but it seems that the two teams that have the best technology and budget are the ones cementing themselves at the top.

I read so much stuff about riders wanting to remove all the crap the manufacturers want, but I can't believe that many of them could ride it... Not even close, for so many of the young guys, traction control and so on is all they know ( when it comes to high powered stuff), swith that off completely, and you give them in excess of 220 ps, and I am sure that when you open the throttle on a bike like that..... A lot happens....fast.... The guys who learned their craft on the 500's (Rossi, Capo and so on) would walk away with victory I believe.

Kind of like spending the first 5 years of your life on an automatic scooter, then, with no practice jumping on an R1.

Mental Trousers

6th September 2010, 09:06

nah mate, settlemental fantasy. put lorrenzo, rossi, stoner etc on 500 hundies and they will go faster than dohan, rainey et al ever did!

That's a big call and I don't agree. The 500's were a totally different bike from the 800's, even though riding the 800's is closer to riding the 500's (peaky and razor edged) than the 990's (they had grunt that could be used to compensate for mistakes). While any of those riders will ride any bike faster than everyone on this forum can putting Lorenzo, Stoner etc on a 500 is impossible to call (Rossi actually raced and an NSR500 before the change to 4 strokes).

wharfy

6th September 2010, 16:07

That's a big call and I don't agree. The 500's were a totally different bike from the 800's, even though riding the 800's is closer to riding the 500's (peaky and razor edged) than the 990's (they had grunt that could be used to compensate for mistakes). While any of those riders will ride any bike faster than everyone on this forum can putting Lorenzo, Stoner etc on a 500 is impossible to call (Rossi actually raced and an NSR500 before the change to 4 strokes).

And won the world title on it ! He probably could have won in his first season on 500's - he admits in his book that HE didn't THINK he could but came close, and regrets not aiming high enough that first season.

Of course there is no way of proving any of this but hey - don't wont to ruin bikers favorite hobby - playing what if :)
Shame there is no World Post Classic series :)

White trash

6th September 2010, 16:18

Anyway, quite apart from which GP riders babies we'd all like to have. I can see this going seriously pear shaped for Ducati.

If Rossi doesn't fire, and from the first season in the saddle, how long can Ducati afford the massive investment in him and his crew? It is pure speculation that the dropped full factory support due to the costs of the MotoGP team but it would make sense.

The sponsorship won through gaining Rossi must be awesome but I'm sure if he gets thoroughly embarrased, the dollars will dry up pretty quick.

NZsarge

6th September 2010, 16:27

I can see this going seriously pear shaped for Ducati.

If Rossi doesn't fire, and from the first season in the saddle, how long can Ducati afford the massive investment in him and his crew? It is pure speculation that the dropped full factory support due to the costs of the MotoGP team but it would make sense.

The sponsorship won through gaining Rossi must be awesome but I'm sure if he gets thoroughly embarrased, the dollars will dry up pretty quick.

Yep, he'd better get rockin' from the get go.
This is probably the biggest gamble in his career and ultimately I have a niggling feeling that it's a mistake.

Crasherfromwayback

6th September 2010, 16:34

Yep, he'd better get rockin' from the get go.
This is probably the biggest gamble in his career and ultimately I have a niggling feeling that it's a mistake.

If anyone can sort the bike it's Rossi though. We shall see.

White trash

6th September 2010, 16:39

Yep, he'd better get rockin' from the get go.
This is probably the biggest gamble in his career and ultimately I have a niggling feeling that it's a mistake.

I seriously believe Ducati stands to lose more in this deal. Rossi (fantastic as he is) can not seriously have too many championships left in him anyway. Ducati need him to ensure that bike is developed to be THE bike for any rider to win on. As he did for Honda. Then Yamaha. If this doesn't happen, they've just chucked a SHITLOAD of money down the drain and it maybe something they never recover from.

NZsarge

6th September 2010, 16:47

If anyone can sort the bike it's Rossi though. We shall see.
Hope so, as you say, time'll tell.

I seriously believe Ducati stands to lose more in this deal.

Agreed there too, I was just looking at it from the view point of his career and maintaining that success.

Oscar

6th September 2010, 17:02

I seriously believe Ducati stands to lose more in this deal. Rossi (fantastic as he is) can not seriously have too many championships left in him anyway. Ducati need him to ensure that bike is developed to be THE bike for any rider to win on. As he did for Honda. Then Yamaha. If this doesn't happen, they've just chucked a SHITLOAD of money down the drain and it maybe something they never recover from.

Do not underestimate the scale of Vale-mania in Italy.
Ducati have already won.

Mental Trousers

6th September 2010, 17:07

If anyone can sort the bike it's Rossi though. We shall see.

It sounds like Jerry Burgess is going with him, as is a good chunk of the pit crew. Ducati may even listen to them when it comes to the bike. The problem, however, is that Ducati is a small team and has very limited resources. As Stoner is finding, when somethings wrong with the Ducati they can't call up the R&D team at the factory and have a whole new setup designed and shipped out to them. Stoner and Hayden are having real problems with the front and Ducati can't get them sorted and it looks like they won't have it fixed before the end of the season because they have to redesign the frame (or get Ohlins to redesign the forks).

SS90

6th September 2010, 19:59

I think that this is indeed a big Monet for Rossi, and it is fair to say that he possibly took a pay cut (at least initially) so that Ducati had the budget to mount a successful championship bid.

Dropping WSB team level involvement is a pretty clear sign.

It is all about domestic sales for Ducati in my opinion, when you go through Italy, there are just so many Yamaha Rossi replica bikes, from scootermatics, 50's and 125,s, 600's and r1's..... That must be choking Ducati's corporate and national pride.

"Vale" branding is as popular as ever, and slowing no sign of slowing down (hell, he could afford to ride on merchandising and win bonus's for 2 years, and retire on that alone..... I wonder if he indeed is doing something like that..... Riding only for mechandising and win bonus...... And perhaps a couple 'o million if he wins the championship, as Ducati will have to pour quite some €'s into the team if they have a hope of pulling off some sort of victory.

I feel the reason that Ducati are taking this massive risk, is the same reason we don't see Kiwi's in the seat of a motogp bike... Domestic sales.

NZ has 4 million people, and if even 20 percent of the population gave a toss about the motogp, it would not be enough revenue to justify having a Kiwi rider, where as Italy... Probably 50 percent of the population care..... And they have somewhat of a larger population than NZ.

As Spain do not produce a motogp bike, they're quite content to have a Spanish rider a Japanese bike..... There is no alternative. But I am sure that there has been pressure from many sides to have a good Italian rider on an Italian bike..... I think the last was Capi, and as the US market is so big, Ducati keep Hayden on.... I think if Rossi,Burgess, and the rest of the team can work their magic on the Ducati, Hayden will come good again, he is showing flashes of form, and the Yanks still love him.

It's all about sales, and in particular domestic sales for Ducati...... yamaha do a roaring trade their, based on Rossi's results.....

I expect that Rossi will indeed be a contender, and also that Ducati will introduce a sports bike, price comparable to the R1 (which, by far is the most expensive Japanese liter bike out there, possibly based on the development costs), which will have the Italians swapping their rice burners for pasta boilers in droves.

Combine this with increased spectators at events like Imola and SanMarino- That will help the Italian economy more than anything else.

Think about it, IF (fantasy only) Britten emerged with a motogp bike, and it was ridden by anyone else other than a Kiwi, how would we all feel about that, if it won, we would all say "theta should have had a kiwi riding" if it lost, we would all say "if a Kiwi had been on it, we would have won"

For the Italians, national pride and motorcycles go hand in hand.

onearmedbandit

6th September 2010, 23:07

Crasherfromwayback

7th September 2010, 07:53

Sure any of the current motorbike racers out there are 'harder' than me, but I can't imagine any of the races from the 80's or 90's complaining like that.

You've got a short memory. Doohan used to always complain that Creville would follow him then try to pounce on him on the last lap. Rossi has often bitched about others trying to get a tow off him in qualifying etc etc. They all moan and bitch mate. It's not hard to understand why they get so hot under the collar when you realize just how much is at stake.

White trash

7th September 2010, 08:01

You've got a short memory. Doohan used to always complain that Creville would follow him then try to pounce on him on the last lap. Rossi has often bitched about others trying to get a tow off him in qualifying etc etc.

Yeah but they never looked like they were about to start bubbling for the mummy.........

Crasherfromwayback

7th September 2010, 08:26

Yeah but they never looked like they were about to start bubbling for the mummy.........

Pah....you homo's are all just jealous of the gorgeous wee thing Stoner gets to hang out of!

roogazza

7th September 2010, 08:41

So I have only just watched the Indy race, and I'm sure Stoner was about to break into tears, whinging that everyone was racing too hard at the start of the race, that he got knocked back and couldn't make it back up. Even the commentators remarked that it is actually racing, not knitting.

Sure any of the current motorbike racers out there are 'harder' than me, but I can't imagine any of the races from the 80's or 90's complaining like that.

I must've missed that. He seemed to be in there for the first bit ,but faded when others started making a move. Maybe he was at his limit (which he does from the get go usually) and had nothing left to up the pace ?

onearmedbandit

7th September 2010, 08:49

Yeah but they never looked like they were about to start bubbling for the mummy.........

You must spread rep around etc etc.

It did though didn't it.

Sure I do remember Doohan having a bit of a whinge too. But while it might be an Ozie thing to whinge, at least Doohan was able to maintain some dignity.

Oscar

7th September 2010, 08:50

You've got a short memory. Doohan used to always complain that Creville would follow him then try to pounce on him on the last lap. Rossi has often bitched about others trying to get a tow off him in qualifying etc etc. They all moan and bitch mate. It's not hard to understand why they get so hot under the collar when you realize just how much is at stake.

Doohan's problem with Criville was him trying pinch his set up.

onearmedbandit

7th September 2010, 08:52

I must've missed that. He seemed to be in there for the first bit ,but faded when others started making a move. Maybe he was at his limit (which he does from the get go usually) and had nothing left to up the pace ?

After his crash he was interviewed back in the pits.

Anyway, after Biaggi left Honda I heard he left his 'Big Book of Excuses' behind with them. Maybe Honda will let Stoner have a look at it.

SS90

7th September 2010, 08:54

Pah....you homo's are all just jealous of the gorgeous wee thing Stoner gets to hang out of!

Who, you mean Lorenzo?

Crasherfromwayback

7th September 2010, 08:57

Doohan's problem with Criville was him trying pinch his set up.

Sure fucked him up when he went back to the screamer engine!

After his crash he was interviewed back in the pits.

Anyway, after Biaggi left Honda I heard he left his 'Big Book of Excuses' behind with them. Maybe Honda will let Stoner have a look at it.

I've always thought Stoner simply says it how it is. Be interesting to see what Rossi has to say when he rides the Ducati.

Is it true Rossi told Stoner this weekend something like..." Casey, you're not riding the Ducati hard enough".

Stoners reply..."Well your team mate is beating you".

How many people have tried to ride the Ducati and failed?