Spousal abuse and anger management

[Edbear]

A couple of dear friends are going through the nastiness of court cases and breakup due to spousal abuse. One is in the US and one here. Circumstances are slightly different in that the lady in the US was subjected to mainly emotional abuse by an alcoholic whereas the lady here was beaten up with the accompanying Police photos, and what goes along with that. But again the fuel was alcohol.

The similarities are that both men lied in court and both have "found" witnesses for their side. Neither accepts any responsibility and blame the victim. Children are involved, and the one in the US has lost her protection order for her 7 year old, he hit and hurt him while drunk, but the court did impose conditions that he may not drink any alcohol 24hrs prior to and during the visitations. He can have his son every weekend. She said that when off the booze he's a good Dad, so she's not too worried. He is trying to find out where she is living though, as she is in a refuge.

The lady here, (both are in their mid-40's), has a teenage daughter at home and has an alarm in her home with direct line to the Police.

Both ladies are mild and sweet and wouldn't hurt a fly. Both are quite little, only 5'2", gentle and loving people.

I went through this with one of my daughters a few years ago and learned a lot about the subject. Being a man who simply couldn't bring himself to hurt a woman no matter what the provocation I have no sympathy for any man who assaults a woman and can punch and kick a vulnerable person who is so much smaller and weaker.

That these men can then lie in court, dig up questionable "witnesses" to defend themselves while saying "sorry" to their partners and asking them to drop all charges, is despicable in the extreme.

Men say that women "know which buttons to press" and certainly that is true, (Hey, I've been married coming up 33 years! :innocent:), but this is also a cop-out and no excuse for violence. If you are smart enough to know she's "pressing your buttons", you're smart enough to deactivate those buttons and see beyond the words. Hitting her is not acceptable!

"She made me do it!" is an excuse that only shows how weak and pathetic you are as a person. And alcohol is always used as an excuse, but again it's a cop-out. Alcohol doesn't make you violent unless you are a violent person to begin with, it just reduces your inhibitions.

Anyway that's my rant for the day. These ladies are sweet and lovely and never deserve what they are going through.

[marie_speeds]

Some guys don't need alcohol though to do the abusing. Some just get mad when one doesn't do as one's told...

[Number One]

That was cheery - thanks for sharing...

Hope the ladies concerned get some peace and can move on from these gutless wankers effectively in time....

[Edbear]

Some guys don't need alcohol though to do the abusing. Some just get mad when one doesn't do as one's told...

You're right of course. Sadly...

[Virago]

Is is quite normal for the supporters in such cases to be completely polarised toward one side. However, it is seldom that one party is completely fault free, and the lies, manipulation, and vendettas usually come from both sides.

I agree that there is no excuse for violence. But it is not uncommon for otherwise reasonable and mild-mannered people to become unhinged when faced with vindictive manipulation - particularly when a devoted parent is being denied access to their children as "punishment".

Your description of the cases suggests that the men involved have major problems. But it is seldom a 100% blame situation.

[Edbear]

Is is quite normal for the supporters in such cases to be completely polarised toward one side. However, it is seldom that one party is completely fault free, and the lies, manipulation, and vendettas usually come from both sides.

I agree that there is no excuse for violence. But it is not uncommon for otherwise reasonable and mild-mannered people to become unhinged when faced with vindictive manipulation - particularly when a devoted parent is being denied access to their children as "punishment".

Your description of the cases suggests that the men involved have major problems. But it is seldom a 100% blame situation.

Nobody is perfect and I know of cases where the man is the victim of maliciousness as well. What I am specifically against here is the unwarranted abuse for which there is no excuse. In the case of my friend in the US, she is genuinely nice and had been trying for a long time to keep the peace and encourage her husband to get help for his drinking. She'd been walking on egg shells for a long time, but the physical violence was the last straw.

Neither of these women had done anything deserving of violence and the continuing attitude of the men demonstrates their character. The reverse can be true and violent acts are not the sole preserve of the male of the species, neither is drunkenness, it just happens that these two cases are where the woman is the victim.

As I said, I've been married for a long time, I know the tricks and tribulations, but as for me I simply could not bring myself to hurt a woman, sober or drunk. There are men out there who are capable and willing to terrorise and abuse women regardless of circumstance, who are domineering cowards.

[Edbear]

PS. In these cases, neither woman is lying, manipulating or conducting any vendetta. The lady in the US wants her son to have relationship with his father and only desires that he undergo the anger management and alcohol abuse programs the courts have imposed upon him, course he does not want to do.

Her son is disgusted with his father that he lied in court to say it was she who hurt him, not his Dad.

The lady here, a quiet mouse of a woman, sweet, attractive and caring, left her husband because of the violence and drinking and when she was with a friend, made the mistake of letting him know where she was, but did not want to see him. He arrived there, drunk, punched her in the face, knocking her off the low balcony they were on and then kicking her on the ground.

The only witness was her friend, yet he is claiming she invited him and is going to produce three witnesses for his side.

[MIXONE]

Woman always know which buttons to push which is why, when it happens, the man should just walk out the door.Timeout is always far better then violence.
Remember though that, even though knowing which buttons to push ,most of the fairer sex don't push them.

[Edbear]

Woman always know which buttons to push which is why, when it happens, the man should just walk out the door.Timeout is always far better then violence.
Remember though that, even though knowing which buttons to push ,most of the fairer sex don't push them.

Granted. If the woman is pressing your buttons, better to address the reason why, as it means all is not well in the household. As I said, if you know she's doing it you can deactivate the buttons. Firstly, don't react; that takes away that weapon, then when in a calm mood and agreeable time, talk to each other about the relationship, really trying to understand the other's view as communication is an art form and many people have difficulty in expressing themselves effectively and honestly.

[Brian d marge]

Is is quite normal for the supporters in such cases to be completely polarised toward one side. However, it is seldom that one party is completely fault free, and the lies, manipulation, and vendettas usually come from both sides.

I agree that there is no excuse for violence. But it is not uncommon for otherwise reasonable and mild-mannered people to become unhinged when faced with vindictive manipulation - particularly when a devoted parent is being denied access to their children as "punishment".

Your description of the cases suggests that the men involved have major problems. But it is seldom a 100% blame situation.

Have to agree with this
and add that women tend to be much smarter than us blokes , who would stand a shit show in a head to head
it does take two to tango , and a marriage is one hell of a dance

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Over here, the man is the lord of the manor ( so they think )

it will be hard to fathom , and I don't want to go into that , but its quite common for a man sitting next to a refrigerator , to ask the wife , in the next room to get a beer for him
she walks from the next room to the refrigerator , ( which he is sitting next to ) and get a beer for him

I tried that once

Stephen

ps , does anyone know how to make the outhouse more comfortable at night , I just cant seem to sleep well out there

[Rogue Rider]

I have no sympathy for any partner that abuses their spouse or opposite partner. There is no justifiable excuse for physical force except as self defense.
It is a sad state of affairs here in NZ with such a high rate of domestic violence. It's very prolific in lower social demographic portions of society with Maori and Pacific Island cultures having the highest offending charge rates.
In saying that, it is most certainly not restricted to those people groups. All Men need to take responsibility for there emotional state and learn to act responsibly and rationally.
It is a lack of control of ones emotional state, and the thinking that losing an argument is being wrong. Men especially find it very hard to drop an argument and want to win at all cost. These men are often up against partners who are also strong willed and charismatic which adds fuel to the fire as they come to logger heads.
It is a shame that in schools, they don't teach more about conflict resolution and self control.
Something needs to change, there is no reasonable excuse to physically or emotionally assault:scooter: the person you pertain to love.

Leaving an argument is not losing an argument. An argument differed is anger defused.

[Virago]

I have no sympathy for any partner that abuses their spouse or opposite partner. There is no justifiable excuse for physical force except as self defense.
It is a sad state of affairs here in NZ with such a high rate of domestic violence. It's very prolific in lower social demographic portions of society with Maori and Pacific Island cultures having the highest offending charge rates.
In saying that, it is most certainly not restricted to those people groups. All Men need to take responsibility for there emotional state and learn to act responsibly and rationally.
It is a lack of control of ones emotional state, and the thinking that losing an argument is being wrong. Men especially find it very hard to drop an argument and want to win at all cost. These men are often up against partners who are also strong willed and charismatic which adds fuel to the fire as they come to logger heads.
It is a shame that in schools, they don't teach more about conflict resolution and self control.
Something needs to change, there is no reasonable excuse to physically or emotionally assault:scooter: the person you pertain to love.

Leaving an argument is not losing an argument. An argument differed is anger defused.

Reading that in conjunction with your signature is rather funny...:yes:

[Usarka]

I All Men need to take responsibility for there emotional state and learn to act responsibly and rationally.
Spousal abuse is by no means limited to husbands being the bash-ers.

[Rogue Rider]

Reading that in conjunction with your signature is rather funny...:yes:

Yeah I know, I am a teddy bear really, just act tough lol.:wari:

[SS90]

I have no sympathy for any partner that abuses their spouse or opposite partner. There is no justifiable excuse for physical force except as self defense.
It is a sad state of affairs here in NZ with such a high rate of domestic violence. It's very prolific in lower social demographic portions of society with Maori and Pacific Island cultures having the highest offending charge rates.
In saying that, it is most certainly not restricted to those people groups. All Men need to take responsibility for there emotional state and learn to act responsibly and rationally.
It is a lack of control of ones emotional state, and the thinking that losing an argument is being wrong. Men especially find it very hard to drop an argument and want to win at all cost. These men are often up against partners who are also strong willed and charismatic which adds fuel to the fire as they come to logger heads.
It is a shame that in schools, they don't teach more about conflict resolution and self control.
Something needs to change, there is no reasonable excuse to physically or emotionally assault:scooter: the person you pertain to love.

Leaving an argument is not losing an argument. An argument differed is anger defused.

I would argue that the only reason NZ instances of domestic violence are so high, is because what constiutes as domestic violence in NZ does not constitute as domestic violence in many other countries.....
........a man raising his voce to a woman is considered domestic violence in NZ...... Someone reports it... it goes in the statistics.....

[scissorhands]

Fark me women are 100% blameless victims lol

[Patrick]

....

Ladies are sweet and lovely and never deserve what they are going through.

Corrected for accuracy.....


.... He arrived there, drunk, punched her in the face, knocking her off the low balcony they were on and then kicking her on the ground.

The only witness was her friend, yet he is claiming she invited him and is going to produce three witnesses for his side.

Kicking anyone on the ground is just cowardice. Dunno what you call it when a bloke does it to a chick. Lower than a snakes arsehole.

[Edbear]

It seems some haven't read the thread properly. I've clearly explained the circumstances of these two women and acknowledged that in some cases the woman may be the insitigator, it's not an exclusively male thing, yet it would appear some may be thinking the violence justifiable in certain circumstances?

What has happened to these women is plainly not acceptable under any circumstances and even if provoked it is a weakness on the man's part to resort to violence against a defenseless, weaker person. "She provoked me!" is a cop-out! As I said, maybe she is pushing your buttons, (again, not the case here!), but one can only "push your buttons" with your permission! Again, if she is, it means there is something wrong that needs addressing, not a knee-jerk reaction to.

How can anyone possibly defend punching a woman to the ground and kicking her while she's down?

[Edbear]

Corrected for accuracy.....

Kicking anyone on the ground is just cowardice. Dunno what you call it when a bloke does it to a chick. Lower than a snakes arsehole.

LOL!!! Some "ladies" are far from sweet and lovely, but even so, such attacks are never justifed. The only time I can possibly think physical violence against a woman may be justified is if said woman is bigger and stronger than you and is beating the living daylights out of you! How common would that be, though?

Some posts would appear to be saying the man is so weak of mind that he can be overpowered and manipulated by a woman and that's an excuse for all sorts of mistreatment and disrespect. My response to this excuse is to "man-up", grow a backbone and start taking responsibility for yourself and your actions.

[tamarillo]

I deplore all abuse - both physical and emotional. And in doing so elude to my point - BOTH hurt, BOTH are deplorable. Good on women for making sure physical abuse is not tolerated and can be talked about. Pity men are such wimps at talking out about the emotional abuse they can suffer.

[Number One]

Good on women for making sure physical abuse is not tolerated and can be talked about. Pity men are such wimps at talking out about the emotional abuse they can suffer.

I have a real issue with the strong assumption that seems to be out there that only women suffer and as such have a problem with abuse and that it is just women who have spoken out against it. OR that only men suffer from emotional abuse and of course it comes from that wicked bitch of a wife/partner :rolleyes:

MEN and WOMEN and CHILDREN are abused in their domestic situations AND many men are involved in fighting for the cause of making it an untolerated act AND every we are all capable of being an abuser.....LONG way to go yet I think until it is talked about openly and honestly

Abuse is wrong whomever it is done to and however it is delivered - as they say there is more than one way to skin a cat...

...on another note....I thought the whole 'are you ok' campaign was about 'domestic abuse' taking into account physical and verbal forms of abuse in families....or is it just about women being beaten by their men?

[rustyrobot]

I deplore all abuse - both physical and emotional. And in doing so elude to my point - BOTH hurt, BOTH are deplorable. Good on women for making sure physical abuse is not tolerated and can be talked about. Pity men are such wimps at talking out about the emotional abuse they can suffer.

I think that men don't talk about the emotional and physical abuse they suffer because other men don't take them seriously. It is on us to make sure that we listen and treat those accusations seriously. That includes making the cops accountable when they say 'get over it' or laugh at men who complain of abuse.

It is solely by women standing up and saying 'this can not continue', and then some men listening and joining their call, that our society has finally woken up to the level of domestic violence in our communities and done something about it.

We must, as 'number one' says, also stand up and say ALL ABUSE is unacceptable. In my work I come across a lot of men who try and use women's psychological abuse to justify their own violence (and psychological/emotional abusive behaviour), and this is not the same thing at all. The statistics around violent injury and death are clear. Men are responsible for most of the violence in our society, against women and against other men. This means that we take responsibility for that, not look to hide that fact by going on about how women abuse too. YES, some women are violent, some are abusive in other ways, and that needs to end, but it doesn't mean we ignore what men are doing.

I personally have great hopes for men to step above this history of family violence, and I support men in that journey. I have great hopes for women to step out of their abusive behaviours too. I am a man so I see my primary work being with men, and I support women who want to help women change.

[rustyrobot]

...on another note....I thought the whole 'are you ok' campaign was about 'domestic abuse' taking into account physical and verbal forms of abuse in families....or is it just about women being beaten by their men?

I believe it is about domestic abuse in all forms.

[Gone Burger]

Agreed - mental absue can sometimes be just as damaging as physical abuse. And often this is not recognised as an abusive relationship because there is no violence. But the mind is a very very powerful tool, and can also be so incredibly damaged by situations like this.

Edbear, these two friends of yours sound like they have ended up in situations, through no fault of their own, that is very difficult to deal with. And its takes a huge amount of courage and support around them to be able to battle it head on, and put their best interests first, and their children. You often hear people say, why do women ever get involved with men like this to begin with, they are just asking for trouble. But people change, and often abusive people (yes I say people because we all know it can be both men and women) are very good at putting on a good show for a while, not letting their true colours show until a little or a lot further down the track.

I wish these two women all the best. And they will both be needing a friend like you Ed to get strength from, so you being there is already being a huge help to them. It's very cruel what happens to some people in life, when they are sure not deserving of it. I can only hope it doesn't damage them as women, and that they can learn to re-build their self esteem and trust again in due course when they are safe and away from their partners for good.

[Edbear]

I have a real issue with the strong assumption that seems to be out there that only women suffer and as such have a problem with abuse and that it is just women who have spoken out against it. OR that only men suffer from emotional abuse and of course it comes from that wicked bitch of a wife/partner :rolleyes:

MEN and WOMEN and CHILDREN are abused in their domestic situations AND many men are involved in fighting for the cause of making it an untolerated act AND every we are all capable of being an abuser.....LONG way to go yet I think until it is talked about openly and honestly

Abuse is wrong whomever it is done to and however it is delivered - as they say there is more than one way to skin a cat...

...on another note....I thought the whole 'are you ok' campaign was about 'domestic abuse' taking into account physical and verbal forms of abuse in families....or is it just about women being beaten by their men?

The reason I started this thread was to get poeple's opinions on the topic and I agree with your post. The situations I posted are specific to them and not the only stories out there. Regrettably, this type of situation is the most common and probably why the TV ads have begun with this.

Child abuse is just as reprehensible and I welcome thoughts on this as well. The whole subject of abuse needs to be talked about in the open and people need to stand up and be counted.

[Edbear]

Agreed - mental absue can sometimes be just as damaging as physical abuse. And often this is not recognised as an abusive relationship because there is no violence. But the mind is a very very powerful tool, and can also be so incredibly damaged by situations like this.

Edbear, these two friends of yours sound like they have ended up in situations, through no fault of their own, that is very difficult to deal with. And its takes a huge amount of courage and support around them to be able to battle it head on, and put their best interests first, and their children. You often hear people say, why do women ever get involved with men like this to begin with, they are just asking for trouble. But people change, and often abusive people (yes I say people because we all know it can be both men and women) are very good at putting on a good show for a while, not letting their true colours show until a little or a lot further down the track.

I wish these two women all the best. And they will both be needing a friend like you Ed to get strength from, so you being there is already being a huge help to them. It's very cruel what happens to some people in life, when they are sure not deserving of it. I can only hope it doesn't damage them as women, and that they can learn to re-build their self esteem and trust again in due course when they are safe and away from their partners for good.

Most abusers are very good at hiding their true selves and really can turn on the charm to obtain their desired "possession." This is how they view their partner, as a possession they own and can do with as they please. Mental abuse and manipulation are used to keep the victim in their control.

[Usarka]

Regrettably, this type of situation is the most common and probably why the TV ads have begun with this.


You mean "most commonly reported"

[scissorhands]

I was up for MAF a few years back.

The long term girlfriend kept on arriving at my house drunk or intoxicated on drugs ( I was a tee total at the time) and would invariably get nasty and throw her latest conquests in my face, be cruel and mentally and emotionally very very manipulative and nasty as. She damaged my 100year old front door, and windows and deck roof while breaking into my home.

She had major issues, but because she was 20 years younger and attractive I put up with her shit. My having undiagnosed autism didnt help me either.

I called 111 on 8 separate occasions because she would not leave my property when asked. Each time police removed her, twice she did a night in the cells, once she stripped off and ran up and down the road naked, all to the neighbours delight. She was never charged, even after 8 removals

Eventually during a struggle she suffered a fat lip, as she often attacked me physically as well as verbally.

This time she called 111 and I was locked up for the night, and charged with male assaults female, which was dropped by police. I think the cops were pretty sick and tired of being called out to my home by then. So finally after the maf charge was dropped, I refused the relationship and she made 2 suicide calls to me, one time the police found her on the roof of her mothers 2 level townhouse

2 years later after causing all sorts of grief for all sorts of people, she was charged with criminal harassment by police, for screwing her best friends man and then writing hate letters to people pretending to be her ex best friend....

Anyway......

The shame amongst my peers that I went through, because of my being in love with this pathologically dishonest woman.....the ugly campaign she began to ruin my reputation amongst common friends and acquaintances, the corruption of others through her lies and dishonesty and unwillingness to take responsibility for her own poor behaviour.....

Is probably quite common fare by my reckoning....

She was expelled from St Cunts and Takapuna Grammer, and had a primary teacher fired for disciplining her. Her mother defends her constantly(lives with the mother), and is largely responsible for validating her poor behaviour.

This thread may do the same.......:blink:

[Usarka]

You should have smashed her bro.

[Number One]

The long term girlfriend....

Sounds scarily like someone I knew recently....I doubt I was the only person here who read a strong resemblance in the explanation you've provided about her behaviour.

First of you who thought the same...send me the correct name you can have some bling! ooooooo ha ha ha

Seriously though there are some psycho hose beasts out there!

[Edbear]

You mean "most commonly reported"

Could be. Child abuse may be the most common but all types are being reported more and the issue is now in the open.


I was up for MAF a few years back.

The long term girlfriend kept on arriving at my house drunk or intoxicated on drugs ( I was a tee total at the time) and would invariably get nasty and throw her latest conquests in my face, be cruel and mentally and emotionally very very manipulative and nasty as. She damaged my 100year old front door, and windows and deck roof while breaking into my home.

She had major issues, but because she was 20 years younger and attractive I put up with her shit. My having undiagnosed autism didnt help me either.

I called 111 on 8 separate occasions because she would not leave my property when asked. Each time police removed her, twice she did a night in the cells, once she stripped off and ran up and down the road naked, all to the neighbours delight. She was never charged, even after 8 removals

Eventually during a struggle she suffered a fat lip, as she often attacked me physically as well as verbally.

This time she called 111 and I was locked up for the night, and charged with male assaults female, which was dropped by police. I think the cops were pretty sick and tired of being called out to my home by then. So finally after the maf charge was dropped, I refused the relationship and she made 2 suicide calls to me, one time the police found her on the roof of her mothers 2 level townhouse

2 years later after causing all sorts of grief for all sorts of people, she was charged with criminal harassment by police, for screwing her best friends man and then writing hate letters to people pretending to be her ex best friend....

Anyway......

The shame amongst my peers that I went through, because of my being in love with this pathologically dishonest woman.....the ugly campaign she began to ruin my reputation amongst common friends and acquaintances, the corruption of others through her lies and dishonesty and unwillingness to take responsibility for her own poor behaviour.....

Is probably quite common fare by my reckoning....

She was expelled from St Cunts and Takapuna Grammer, and had a primary teacher fired for disciplining her. Her mother defends her constantly(lives with the mother), and is largely responsible for validating her poor behaviour.

This thread may do the same.......:blink:

Thanks for sharing so honestly. Had to chuckle a bit over the "20 years younger and attractive"! I guess you're only human after all.

You obviously didn't intend to assault or abuse her and were in a difficult situation and I doubt anyone here would criticise you for the fact that she got a fat lip during one of her attacks on you.

This thread is not intended to validate any bad behaviour, it is about domestic abuse in all forms and as I've pointed out, neither of the women concerned in the OP were at fault, but even if they were a contributor to problems in the marriage, no-one can justify the actions of their partners.

[Usarka]

Could be. Child abuse may be the most common but all types are being reported more and the issue is now in the open.


I'd hazard a suggestion that abuse against men is vastly under-reported

And when it is reported it really isn't reported because charges aren't laid (as per scissors experience).

[Edbear]

I'd hazard a suggestion that abuse against men is vastly under-reported

And when it is reported it really isn't reported because charges aren't laid (as per scissors experience).

Quite possibly. I doubt it is as widespread as other forms of abuse, but for those who are victims it is no less serious and should be taken as seriously as any other.

My wife did hit me once but she hurt her hand. I can't recall if I deserved it at the time... :innocent: Probably did... :shutup:

[Virago]

...My wife did hit me once but she hurt her hand. I can't recall if I deserved it at the time... :innocent: Probably did... :shutup:

That's it in a (politically-correct) nutshell.

Men abuse women because they're complete and utter bastards.

Women abuse men because they're complete and utter bastards.

Case solved.