Another fatality

[marie_speeds]

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7862457/motorcyclist-killed-in-tractor-crash/

[Eyegasm]

The worst thing I hate about this is the fact that this was posted at 11:44 and the accident happened at 11.

The plate of the motorcycle is clearly visible in the photo. I bloody hope the family was informed prior to this being posted on stuff.

[marie_speeds]

you should have put this on the other thread saying "I saw a dead body today"

Don't be insensitive

Besides I do not think my partner would appreciate me calling him that..... :innocent:

[mashman]

RIP to the rider and condolences to the family...

[SMOKEU]

The worst thing I hate about this is the fact that this was posted at 11:44 and the accident happened at 11.

The plate of the motorcycle is clearly visible in the photo. I bloody hope the family was informed prior to this being posted on stuff.

There is no need to complain, that still doesn't change the fact that the dude is dead.

[YellowDog]

Another unfortunate accident. 50 years old as well. Young enough and old enough to still be a son, father husband and granbdfather. Condolences to the family and understanding for this huge impact on their lives. RIP.

[ruaphu]

Another unfortunate accident in the Taranaki. This is the second fatality in my locale in as many months. Read the link.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/4086066/Man-watches-mate-die-on-road

[MSTRS]

There is another thread on this, but...

He died when his 1200cc Triumph motorcycle slammed into the rear of a tractor with an industrial-style cultivator on the back after coming over the brow of Big Jim's Hill, just north of Waitara, about 10.55am.

Police say it appeared the tractor, also heading towards Waitara, was attempting to make a right hand turn into a driveway on the opposite side of the road across double yellow lines.
How many motorcyclists have to die before people stop doing stupid shit on bits of road with little-to-no visibility (u-turning cops included)?

[Rogue Rider]

Thoughts and prayers go out to the family at this time. What a tragic and terrible accident. Take care out there, there are some shocking looking implements that farmers use on their machines.

[hayd3n]

that's just sad farewell fellow rider

[slofox]

I note the press article says the bike "slammed" into the tractor...no emotive language there, eh...

The press seems to be incapable of exercising any level of restraint or decency.

[Paul in NZ]

Man - I felt ill when I saw that. Bloody terrible thing. RIP rider.....

[duckonin]

Man - I felt ill when I saw that. Bloody terrible thing. RIP rider.....

Same here Paul....

[Naki Rat]

In addition to the double yellow lines the tractor would have been about to cross two lanes of opposing traffic (passing lane on "Big Jim's" hill) and just beyond a blind brow that prevented the motorcyclist from seeing the tractor until (obviously) too late.

It will be interesting to see if the tractor driver gets a death by careless use charge put on him ' cause it sure as hell appears that he should :2guns:

[ajturbo]

""Mr Prendergast said police would like to speak to anyone who may have seen the bike before the crash.""

why????

[sinned]

In addition to the double yellow lines the tractor would have been about to cross two lanes of opposing traffic (passing lane on "Big Jim's" hill) and just beyond a blind brow that prevented the motorcyclist from seeing the tractor until (obviously) too late.

It will be interesting to see if the tractor driver gets a death by careless use charge put on him ' cause it sure as hell appears that he should :2guns:
Could you provide a google map link showing where Big Jim's hill is? I lived in NP and been over that road many times but can't figure out where on the road this occurred

[Naki Rat]

Could you provide a google map link showing where Big Jim's hill is? I lived in NP and been over that road many times but can't figure out where on the road this occurred

Doesn't show on Google Maps but it's on SH3 just past Brixton (Waitara Road intersection/Ruakiwi Gardens), over the railway overbridge and down Big Jim's hill with the Waitara turn-off at the bottom on the left.

[sinned]

Doesn't show on Google Maps but it's on SH3 just past Brixton (Waitara Road intersection/Ruakiwi Gardens), over the railway overbridge and down Big Jim's hill with the Waitara turn-off at the bottom on the left.

Is it here? http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Ruakiwi+Gardens+Waitara,+Taranaki&sll=-39.003878,174.240503&sspn=0.024012,0.066047&ie=UTF8&hq=Ruakiwi+Gardens&hnear=Waitara,+Taranaki&ll=-39.01645,174.22205&spn=0.02094,0.132093&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=-39.012856,174.226829&panoid=pkVu8yBM5COcd9xjtOQAeQ&cbp=11,270,,0,5

[nadroj]

As I understand it yes that is the location, the driveway being just in front of the ute & boat. They were both coming from the brow towards the Waitara turnoff.

[one fast tl1ooo]

RIP to the rider

[Naki Rat]

Is it here? http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Ruakiwi+Gardens+Waitara,+Taranaki&sll=-39.003878,174.240503&sspn=0.024012,0.066047&ie=UTF8&hq=Ruakiwi+Gardens&hnear=Waitara,+Taranaki&ll=-39.01645,174.22205&spn=0.02094,0.132093&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=-39.012856,174.226829&panoid=pkVu8yBM5COcd9xjtOQAeQ&cbp=11,270,,0,5

That view is facing west - the way both tractor and bike were coming from. The entranceway in front of the boat trailer on your Google Map view would appear to be where the tractor was heading across the road to, judging by yesterday's photo of the scene:

[Conquiztador]

I feel this deep in my gut. The many times some shit like this happens and you just manage to squeeze past. At some stage everyones luck will run out.

Ride free forever. My deepest sincere condolences to family and friends.

[Katman]

At some stage everyones luck will run out.



Why would anyone just rely on luck?

[Conquiztador]

Why would anyone just rely on luck?

Not the place.

[FJRider]

Why would anyone just rely on luck?

The same reason people buy Lotto tickets .... some weeks you lose.

Some weeks you lose more ...

[pritch]

The press seems to be incapable of exercising any level of restraint or decency.

I would shorten that. The Taranaki press just seem to be incapable.

[Number One]

I note the press article says the bike "slammed" into the tractor...no emotive language there, eh...

The press seems to be incapable of exercising any level of restraint or decency.

Hmm I'm having a similar conversation on another thread and agree completely.

If it's not emotive language or insuating wrong doing prematurely, or publishing suppressed and sensitive information it's pictures that really we or the family actually don't need to see plastered about the place.

[Lurch]

Although this is tragic and the tractor driver made a mistake, in the end if you can't see your stopping distance ahead then you take your life in your own hands. I know I do frequently but I would hate to think that the other driver would spend the rest of his/her life feeling guilty for something I could have avoided.

[FJRider]

.... in the end if you can't see your stopping distance ahead then you take your life in your own hands....

I was wondering if anybody would mention this .... I have been caught out, and ... to date ... got away with it.

Due to no skill on my part.

Pure luck.

I do hope my luck .... continues ...

[rebel]

It clearly states in the roade code that on the open road, pull over to the left before making a RH turn (drive way, side road). I've done many open road miles by car, bike and truck and see it every week. Funnily enough the cops don't seem to police it, motorists don't know about it, LTSA don't give a shit, maybe this issue doesn't pull the heart strings like the speeding/drink driving/seatbelt billboards do.

[hayd3n]

I was wondering if anybody would mention this .... I have been caught out, and ... to date ... got away with it.

Due to no skill on my part.

Pure luck.

I do hope my luck .... continues ...

2nd that i was lucky that being the 2nd rider
http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/3356761/Two-motorcyclists-hurt-in-crash

[Berries]

It clearly states in the roade code that on the open road, pull over to the left before making a RH turn (drive way, side road). I've done many open road miles by car, bike and truck and see it every week. Funnily enough the cops don't seem to police it, motorists don't know about it, LTSA don't give a shit, maybe this issue doesn't pull the heart strings like the speeding/drink driving/seatbelt billboards do.
The Road Code has no legal standing. The actual Rule says you must move as far as practicable to the right before turning, but you may move to the left and not be in breach of the Rule if you can prove you did it for safety reasons. Which is why you don't see it policed.

[Conquiztador]

Although this is tragic and the tractor driver made a mistake, in the end if you can't see your stopping distance ahead then you take your life in your own hands. I know I do frequently but I would hate to think that the other driver would spend the rest of his/her life feeling guilty for something I could have avoided.

What does stopping distance have to do with anything if a tractor suddenly turns in front of you?

But this is KB after all and everyone knows more than the police that are investigating.

Please keep your opinions to your self in respect of the rider and his family.

[Katman]

What does stopping distance have to do with anything if a tractor suddenly turns in front of you?



They were both going in the same direction.

[Conquiztador]

They were both going in the same direction.

"Police say it appeared the tractor, also heading towards Waitara, was attempting to make a right hand turn into a driveway on the opposite side of the road across double yellow lines"

[Katman]

"Police say it appeared the tractor, also heading towards Waitara, was attempting to make a right hand turn into a driveway on the opposite side of the road across double yellow lines"

Looking on that googlemaps link there's a long straight leading up to the blind crest.

I'd be surprised if the motorcyclist didn't at least see the tractor going over the brow in the distance.

[Conquiztador]

Looking on that googlemaps link there's a long straight leading up to the blind crest.

I'd be surprised if the motorcyclist didn't at least see the tractor going over the brow in the distance.

Please Katman. We can speculate all we want. That changes nothing. I know you are on a crusade to blame bikers for everything that happens to us. But we do not know the facts. A man is dead. Try to show a little respect.

[Katman]

Please Katman. We can speculate all we want. That changes nothing. I know you are on a crusade to blame bikers for everything that happens to us. But we do not know the facts. A man is dead. Try to show a little respect.

This isn't an RIP thread.

We're discussing an accident - to see what can be learned from it.

[miloking]

Why would anyone just rely on luck?

Because thats what life is all about...fucking luck and nothing else.

Accidents will always happen whether you like it or not... and you can choose to be wraped in 2 tons of steel and increase the odds of survival or just sit on 170kg thing with two wheels, if its the later you are likely to get hurt.

lets just ban all motorcycles, Nick Smith and Katman will be happy....

[Katman]

Because thats what life is all about...fucking luck and nothing else.



Good luck with that.

[miloking]

Good luck with that.

Worked for me just fine so far...iam alive, young, healthy, have a friends/family and good job...so just an average joe like most of us... BUT all is just luck and can disappear in a instant so i make most of it while i can.

And things like this accident remind me of all the above and make me gratetful my luck hasnt run out just yet...

[willytheekid]

yeeeiissh!...of all the spikey,hard metal things to hit! ...damn that tractor looks scary.:blink:

R.I.P ride in paradise, thoughts go out to his family and friends (especialy his mate who was behind him....and had to tell his missus the bad news :( )

[Patrick]

I note the press article says the bike "slammed" into the tractor...no emotive language there, eh...

It is what it is.....


In addition to the double yellow lines the tractor would have been about to cross two lanes of opposing traffic (passing lane on "Big Jim's" hill) and just beyond a blind brow that prevented the motorcyclist from seeing the tractor until (obviously) too late.

It will be interesting to see if the tractor driver gets a death by careless use charge put on him ' cause it sure as hell appears that he should :2guns:

NO, he shouldn't..... not that blind a brow of a hill, on a bike, looking at the big arsed tractor....


""Mr Prendergast said police would like to speak to anyone who may have seen the bike before the crash.""

why????

From some witness comments already, moments before....


Looking on that googlemaps link there's a long straight leading up to the blind crest.

I'd be surprised if the motorcyclist didn't at least see the tractor going over the brow in the distance.

Tractor was a big fecker, there to be seen. Went to go around it over the yellows, then realised it was turning...

[Patrick]

yeeeiissh!...of all the spikey,hard metal things to hit! ...damn that tractor looks scary.:blink:

R.I.P ride in paradise, thoughts go out to his family and friends (especialy his mate who was behind him....and had to tell his missus the bad news :( )

Scary it was!

Sad, for sure... avoidable? :yes:

[Lurch]

What does stopping distance have to do with anything if a tractor suddenly turns in front of you?

But this is KB after all and everyone knows more than the police that are investigating.

Please keep your opinions to your self in respect of the rider and his family.

I said this because both the article, the police statement and the photos tell us that the rider impacted with the rear of the tractor whilst travelling in the same general direction toward Waitara.

[Kickaha]

Because thats what life is all about...fucking luck and nothing else.

Accidents will always happen whether you like it or not... and you can choose to be wraped in 2 tons of steel and increase the odds of survival or just sit on 170kg thing with two wheels, if its the later you are likely to get hurt.

lets just ban all motorcycles, Nick Smith and Katman will be happy....

You must be related to DB because you come across dumber and dumber every time you post, Katman has never advocated banning motorcycles

Anyone who relies on "luck" is an fucking idiot

[PrincessBandit]

"Police say it appeared the tractor, also heading towards Waitara, was attempting to make a right hand turn into a driveway on the opposite side of the road across double yellow lines"

So if they were heading in the same direction and the tractor was in front wanting to turn right, bike is behind going straight ahead.... Are people saying that anyone turning right has to be thinking of what anyone behind them might be doing as well as watching for their opportunity from the front to execute their turn?

Yes, I know of the pull to the left "rule" to allow traffic behind you to pass, but I thought that was primarily if there is a string of oncoming vehicles preventing you from making your turn fairly well immediately. Was the tractor stationary, just sitting in the middle of the road for some time before being able to turn or was it in the process of turning when the motorcyclist hit him?

Either way it doesn't alter a death, but I'd be cautious before calling for the head of the tractor driver especially if he wasn't actually doing anything other that what he was legally entitled to do (turning into a driveway).

[PrincessBandit]

lets just ban all motorcycles, Nick Smith and Katman will be happy....

you're still a dick.

[Berries]

Are people saying that anyone turning right has to be thinking of what anyone behind them might be doing as well as watching for their opportunity from the front to execute their turn?
I'd say so. Not specific to this incident, but put yourself on your bike wanting to turn right somewhere. Wouldn't you want to know if a car is hurtling towards you from behind while you are in such a vulnerable position ?

[doc]

Do have to they register tractors, and do they pay ACC ?

[Str8 Jacket]

Oh look, another KB shit fight about something none of you were there to witness! :weird:

[Mom]

Do have to they register tractors, and do they pay ACC ?

I would hope that this one is written up as a workplace accident by ACC, and that OSH also investigate.

[PrincessBandit]

I'd say so. Not specific to this incident, but put yourself on your bike wanting to turn right somewhere. Wouldn't you want to know if a car is hurtling towards you from behind while you are in such a vulnerable position ?


If I am on my bike, waiting at ANY intersection I am aware of what is behind me (especially as my son had the experience of being bumped into from behind while at an intersection recently while he was stationary). However if I'm in a fat arse truck or tractor I can hardly skippity skip out of the way just because I see another vehicle coming up from behind who seems to not have noticed my presence.

The question is whether any vehicle "hurtling towards you from behind" (your words, not mine) has the right to blame you for the ensuing crash if they hit you.

Before anyone reads that and thinks I'm "blaming" the rider for hitting the tractor, I am not. What I am questioning is why people are blaming the tractor driver when the law is pretty strict on the following motorist.

[Grubber]

It is what it is.....



NO, he shouldn't..... not that blind a brow of a hill, on a bike, looking at the big arsed tractor....



From some witness comments already, moments before....



Tractor was a big fecker, there to be seen. Went to go around it over the yellows, then realised it was turning...

Ok it seems to me that you have read it all correctly and made your well calculated opinion of the events (unlike many here it would seem). In my opinion you have got it right.
The poor fella crossed the double yellow to go round the tractor as it was in fact about to turn into a driveway on the right hand side of the road. There would have been plenty of clear vision and plenty of last minute choices to be made.
My condolences to the family and friends.

[Quasi]

Before anyone reads that and thinks I'm "blaming" the rider for hitting the tractor, I am not. What I am questioning is why people are blaming the tractor driver when the law is pretty strict on the following motorist.

Maybe we are feeling a tad annoyed with the tractor driver as from what i have read, he was turning right over double yellow lines - normally placed for a good reason?

But... despite this - a life has been lost, a family grieves, another comrade has gone too soon. For this, we must all take a moment to reflect.

[Grubber]

In addition to the double yellow lines the tractor would have been about to cross two lanes of opposing traffic (passing lane on "Big Jim's" hill) and just beyond a blind brow that prevented the motorcyclist from seeing the tractor until (obviously) too late.

It will be interesting to see if the tractor driver gets a death by careless use charge put on him ' cause it sure as hell appears that he should :2guns:

Your a fuckin muppet mate. don't make accusations such:angry: as this until you know the facts. I have seen nothing yet that would allow me to come to that conclusion.

[davereid]

Do have to they register tractors, and do they pay ACC ?

Yes, tractors may registered, but the ACC is not charged to the vehicle licence. The ACC is paid from the farms normal ACC levies.

A tractor that can (or does) travel faster that 30km/hr is also required to have a WOF, but the law allows the tractor different standards - it is treated as a mobile machine, not a vehicle.

[PrincessBandit]

Maybe we are feeling a tad annoyed with the tractor driver as from what i have read, he was turning right over double yellow lines - normally placed for a good reason?



So, if your driveway out in the boondocks (or wherever for that matter) happened to be where there are double yellows you would have to either (1) relocate your drive entry/exit to a more appropriate segment of the road (any my guess is that possibly the driveway was there before the double yellows were painted, but i could be wrong) or (2) never go into your drive.

Interesting options.

[Berries]

The question is whether any vehicle "hurtling towards you from behind" (your words, not mine) has the right to blame you for the ensuing crash if they hit you.
Depends on a whole lot of other factors. It is a fairly common type of crash, but blame doesn't always fall with the turning vehicle, or the following one, because there are always other issues that contributed to it happening.


Interesting options.
And totally impractical. People turn right across single and double yellow lines every day. I have yet to see anyone charged for it.

[Grubber]

Depends on a whole lot of other factors. It is a fairly common type of crash, but blame doesn't always fall with the turning vehicle, or the following one, because there are always other issues that contributed to it happening.


And totally impractical. People turn right across single and double yellow lines every day. I have yet to see anyone charged for it.

Well said.
One has to be careful to note all the circumstances and i believe we have very few of the outlying facts here.

[YellowDog]

So, if your driveway out in the boondocks (or wherever for that matter) happened to be where there are double yellows you would have to either (1) relocate your drive entry/exit to a more appropriate segment of the road (any my guess is that possibly the driveway was there before the double yellows were painted, but i could be wrong) or (2) never go into your drive.

Interesting options.

An agricultural vehicle is there to do some work. IME - They don't generally use the tradional road lines.

We have no idea as the the actual facts and can only speculate. If the tractor had a rear end attachement (as reported) the indicator signal (whether used or not) may not have been visible and the tractor may have appeared to be stationary.

My view is that at 50 years old, most are generally a bit more responsible which makes me suspect there may be other unknown factor which may have contributed to this terrible accident.

e.g. Over brow of hill and not breaking speed limit. See stationary tractor too close. Not safe to pass. Brakes. Lose control on mud. Bang.

There doesn't have to be a blame attached to this terrible accident.

[duckonin]

you're still a dick.

Would that be big or small ? :yes:

[MSTRS]

... plenty of clear vision and plenty of last minute choices to be made.

Clear vision...yes. For quite some distance ONCE over the brow.
Last minute choices...not plenty...3. Go left. Go right. Brake to a stop.

Going left can be fraught with danger due to road-edge conditions.
Legally speaking, going right could be 'dodgy' due to the yellow line ON HIS SIDE OF THE ROAD. Forget the double...makes no difference. Patrick can correct me if wrong - I believe one can cross the yellow to pass a stationary vehicle, but onus would be on passing vehicle not to do so in the face of oncoming traffic.
Braking to a stop isn't always possible due to speed/distance to react - despite the law about 1/2 the clear distance ahead etc.

We can only speculate as to why the rider chose to go right. But in this case it was the wrong choice.


Maybe we are feeling a tad annoyed with the tractor driver as from what i have read, he was turning right over double yellow lines - normally placed for a good reason?

No law against turning across yellow/s into a driveway.
Yellow ON YOUR SIDE means don't cross to overtake/travel straight ahead. Except possibly passing a stationary vehicle.

[T.W.R]

Unfortunately the rule of thumb is if you hit a vehicle from behind you're in the wrong :yes:

The most possible cause is familiarity breeds contempt.... how often do you travel a piece of road and approach a blind crest without backing off a bit ? , you never know what's going to be over the rise :yes:

If the tractor & implement had been stationary at the side of the road before making the turn into the driveway (which is the generally accepted rule of thumb because of their size), it takes a fair distance to get a big machine upto speed from a standing start and negotiating a driveway enterance can't be done at speed with a big implement trailing behind (especially if it's a heavy item).

Enterances on busy roads require turning bays ( When I was contracting our yard was on SH1 right at the end of passing bays with a double yellow centre line, we had to move our gateway x meters back from the roadside and clear a turning bay opposite the enterance and clear any thing that would obstruct our view of the road when trying to leave the yard)

Dependant on size and usage tractors require either a WOF or COF and RUC . Most Tractors piss all over 30km/h (the 30km/h restriction is for using certain tractors on a class1 licence), some can nudge upwards of 70km/h at full noise :yes:.

Either way you have to feel for the loss of the rider because it would have been a grizzly end and have to feel for the tractor driver because he would have seen it unfold and wouldn't been able to do anything about it (just the same as a train driver hitting a vehicle, you just can't stop or move a big machine quickly)

[MSTRS]

Entrances on busy roads require turning bays ( When I was contracting our yard was on SH1 right at the end of passing bays with a double yellow centre line, we had to move our gateway x meters back from the roadside and clear a turning bay opposite the entrance and clear any thing that would obstruct our view of the road when trying to leave the yard)


This was on SH3 between NP and Waitara...it's reasonably busy most of the time. But a farm driveway probably doesn't meet the criteria for vehicle movement in/out to necessitate such widening etc.

[T.W.R]

This was on SH3 between NP and Waitara...it's reasonably busy most of the time. But a farm driveway probably doesn't meet the criteria for vehicle movement in/out to necessitate such widening etc.

True that it isn't a mandatory thing for the average cockie to do, but the majority are fully aware of the area needed to maneuver large implements so make allowances at their yard gateways and access to roadside paddocks.
We were in a slightly different situation being a contracting business and on some occassions leaving or arriving back at the yard we'd have the tractor, implement, work ute & mobil tanker all hitched together which took up a hell of a lot of space and a lot of time to get mobil from stationary.
Some implements are so big that rearward vision is totally obstructed so you have to get off the road before commiting to turning

[breakaway]

It clearly states in the roade code that on the open road, pull over to the left before making a RH turn (drive way, side road). I've done many open road miles by car, bike and truck and see it every week. Funnily enough the cops don't seem to police it, motorists don't know about it, LTSA don't give a shit, maybe this issue doesn't pull the heart strings like the speeding/drink driving/seatbelt billboards do.

Doesn't it also state that when riding/driving on the open road, you must be able to stop within the visible distance up ahead, and if it's a road without a center line then you must be able to stop within half of the visible distance ahead?

So technically, this crash, and all those other people who got hurt / killed by u-turning cops etc could and should have been avoided. But no one I have ever seen ever slows down before the brow of a hill to ensure there is nothing waiting on the other side.

[avgas]

Slow the fuck down.

Fucking sad when shit like this happens.

It does not matter how skilled you are (or think you are).....Just slow the fuck down.

Shit like this is easily avoidable.

[MSTRS]

Avgas - not saying you're wrong to advise slowing down, but you say that as though speeding was the cause of this latest death.
How do you know it was?
Just as likely he was 'not paying attention'.
Or he was, but the tractor driver wasn't.
Or moved once the bike was committed.
Or...or...or...

[Grubber]

Clear vision...yes. For quite some distance ONCE over the brow.
Last minute choices...not plenty...3. Go left. Go right. Brake to a stop.

Going left can be fraught with danger due to road-edge conditions.
Legally speaking, going right could be 'dodgy' due to the yellow line ON HIS SIDE OF THE ROAD. Forget the double...makes no difference. Patrick can correct me if wrong - I believe one can cross the yellow to pass a stationary vehicle, but onus would be on passing vehicle not to do so in the face of oncoming traffic.
Braking to a stop isn't always possible due to speed/distance to react - despite the law about 1/2 the clear distance ahead etc.

We can only speculate as to why the rider chose to go right. But in this case it was the wrong choice.


No law against turning across yellow/s into a driveway.
Yellow ON YOUR SIDE means don't cross to overtake/travel straight ahead. Except possibly passing a stationary vehicle.

Plenty of vision....as in you need to slow down on a crest as your stopping distance becomes less. Once done that you would have the choices. But you are right...we don't know for sure what the circumstances were.

[Patrick]

Maybe we are feeling a tad annoyed with the tractor driver as from what i have read, he was turning right over double yellow lines - normally placed for a good reason?

Unsure what the connection is here. One can turn across yellow lines to go into your drive, side street, whatever. They are no passing lines..... If it was stationary and you aren't impeding oncoming traffic, one can cross momentarily.... but that wasn't the case....


....speeding was the cause of this latest death.
Just as likely he was 'not paying attention'. Or...or...or...

Amended. That looks better......

[MSTRS]

Amended. That looks better......

Please don't go putting words in my mouth...
I wasn't there (even if you were - afterwards) but I'm not prepared to put it all on the rider. At least not until it is proved he was speeding (and I don't mean just a couple of kms over)

[imdying]

luck and can disappear in a instantIsn't that the truth... fortunately, experience and risk mitigation skills do not.

Given that, I know which one that Katman is going to rely on. And I know who is more likely to be better for it :msn-wink:

[avgas]

Avgas - not saying you're wrong to advise slowing down, but you say that as though speeding was the cause of this latest death.
How do you know it was?
Just as likely he was 'not paying attention'.
Multiple causes I agree - however if you decrease one, the others have more leeway. This is why the rest of us aren't biting harvesters. Fact of the matter was he was not in his game - its a bit easy to avoid a tractor.....imagine what would have happened if a car had crossed the center line?

Or he was, but the tractor driver wasn't.
Or moved once the bike was committed.
Not known to move fast - also rather difficult to "swing around" with a good ton of Harvester on the back.

Note I never said he was speeding. But clearly he was going too fast for him to manage.

[rastuscat]

It clearly states in the roade code that on the open road, pull over to the left before making a RH turn (drive way, side road).

That practise is a nightmare waiting to happen.

In the 90's I came across a nasty crash in the Mamaku's. A car had puled over to the left to let cars go past before he turned right. Trouble was he didn't see the bike coming from behind, and turned across his path. I was cradling the riders head in my arms when the ambos arrived. He lived but is munted for life.

No wonder people don't do it.

[Genie]

To many of you this will sound callous and heartless....though I am neither of them.

When your time is up..it's up! Can't do much about.....it's what you do before hand that truely matters.

It would be so nice if we could choose how and when we die but we don't. If we could die peacefully in bed surronded by our loved ones...would that be the perfect way to die? I think not.

I know I shall die.....when I do, and if I were to die by some horrorific accident such as this, I'd like for all to learn a lesson from it....not get bogged down in the what if's but to learn and move forward, enjoying every day you are blessed with.

We get one life...enjoy it. Strive for hapiness, treat others with kindness, love your family...

My sympathies to all the family and friends of this man and also to those who attended this horrific accident.

[dangerous]

Just read the 1st post, ya know moderen tractors have transmiters for SWS, which are picked up on most radar detectors... ya'd think the police and ACC would get togeather to save lives rather than ban detectors and use the SWS system in NZ.

[PrincessBandit]

And totally impractical. People turn right across single and double yellow lines every day. I have yet to see anyone charged for it.

That was my point exactly. Some people seem to have missed the irony.

[Grubber]

To many of you this will sound callous and heartless....though I am neither of them.

When your time is up..it's up! Can't do much about.....it's what you do before hand that truely matters.

It would be so nice if we could choose how and when we die but we don't. If we could die peacefully in bed surronded by our loved ones...would that be the perfect way to die? I think not.

I know I shall die.....when I do, and if I were to die by some horrorific accident such as this, I'd like for all to learn a lesson from it....not get bogged down in the what if's but to learn and move forward, enjoying every day you are blessed with.

We get one life...enjoy it. Strive for hapiness, treat others with kindness, love your family...

My sympathies to all the family and friends of this man and also to those who attended this horrific accident.

Excellent! Not much i can add to this.
All you other fellas listening?:yes:

[PrincessBandit]

e.g. Over brow of hill and not breaking speed limit. See stationary tractor too close. Not safe to pass. Brakes. Lose control on mud. Bang.



Sorry Andrew, but that is just as speculative as any other comments which have been posted here.
I still don't see why people are jumping on the tractor driver when he was only going about his business as he has every right to do, including making a right hand turn into a driveway. Regardless of what lines were painted on the road it's not like he was attempting a u-ey or pulling right into some random part of the opposite side of the road.

Some people on here need to realise that jumping on the band wagon of "blaming the other person" is not appropriate. Until all the facts are known then blaming anyone in this situation is pointless. We don't know whether the tractor had been sitting there for any length of time before attempting the turn, we don't know whether the rider was attempting to go around the tractor or observing the speed limit, we don't know whether there was sun strike or any other mitigating factors involved.

As for "why did the police want to speak to any witness regarding the bike leading up to the crash?" (asked by someone else); well, I'd think that was pretty obvious - the police need all the facts they can garner to make an assessment of the situation. Ignoring what happened with BOTH vehicles prior to the crash would be irresponsible.

[Naki Rat]

Your a fuckin muppet mate. don't make accusations such:angry: as this until you know the facts. I have seen nothing yet that would allow me to come to that conclusion.

Should be "you're a fuckin m..." but it appears your spelling skills are at a similar level to your local knowledge of the area in question (I rode that road 24 hours earlier). At 100kmh the motorcyclist would have had fak all choices when confronted with a lane full of tractor, or do you suggest slowing for every brow?

This happened on the main road north out of Taranaki and could just as easily ended with a tractor munted by a B-train. It was not a clever manoeuvre on the tractor's part.

[PrincessBandit]

This happened on the main road north out of Taranaki and could just as easily ended with a tractor munted by a B-train. It was not a clever manoeuvre on the tractor's part.

Serious question here: What was he meant to do then?

[Berries]

or do you suggest slowing for every brow?
You are supposed to -

Road User Rule 5.9 (1) A driver must not drive a vehicle in a lane marked on a road at such a speed that the driver is unable to stop in the length of the lane that is visible to the driver.
Nobody does it. I don't do it. I lost a friend when he came over a crest to find someone pulling across his lane towing a horsefloat. Forget farm driveways though, so many intersections are located beyond crests, or around corners, that it is a wonder this kind of thing doesn't happen much more often.

[Naki Rat]

Serious question here: What was he meant to do then?

Continue on further beyond the brow where oncoming traffic had more warning? But I suspect he like hundreds of other agri vehicles has to take the risk he did as part of their daily routine, but this time he just got unlucky :shit:

[miloking]

You must be related to DB because you come across dumber and dumber every time you post, Katman has never advocated banning motorcycles

Anyone who relies on "luck" is an fucking idiot

...i know very well Katman doesnt want motorcycling banned or changed in any way for worse...its called "being ironic" for the slower individuals. He just comes across that way by his extremist views

Also i didnt say i rely on luck...but not surprised that you missed that as well.

[imdying]

do you suggest slowing for every brow?Yes, and corners that are blind.

[PrincessBandit]

Continue on further beyond the brow where oncoming traffic had more warning? But I suspect he like hundreds of other agri vehicles has to take the risk he did as part of their daily routine, but this time he just got unlucky :shit:

Sooooooooooo, he has to go beyond the driveway, with his fat arse tractor and somehow do a 72-point turn in order to swing around back to the entry he wanted to go into?

[Kickaha]

Also i didnt say i rely on luck...but not surprised that you missed that as well.

correct you didn't, but if life is about ....fucking luck and nothing else. there's not really anything else you have to rely on


Because thats what life is all about...fucking luck and nothing else.

[PrincessBandit]

correct you didn't, but if life is about ....fucking luck and nothing else. there's not really anything else you have to rely on

+1 so you noticed that too?

[duckonin]

Serious question here: What was he meant to do then?

PB you are now asking for speculation....:yes:

[Naki Rat]

Sooooooooooo, he has to go beyond the driveway, with his fat arse tractor and somehow do a 72-point turn in order to swing around back to the entry he wanted to go into?

Take a look at the width of SH3 in this area by looking at the Google Maps link earlier and edit your post as you consider necessary :rolleyes:

[rebel]

That practise is a nightmare waiting to happen.

In the 90's I came across a nasty crash in the Mamaku's. A car had puled over to the left to let cars go past before he turned right. Trouble was he didn't see the bike coming from behind, and turned across his path. I was cradling the riders head in my arms when the ambos arrived. He lived but is munted for life.

No wonder people don't do it.

So because one incompetent dickhead fucked it up it shouldn't happen? Should we ban U turns as well? It's common sense to pull to the left if there is oncoming traffic, you may have a death wish if you prefer to sit in the middle of the open road whilst waiting to turn right, haven't you realised most of NZ drivers are half asleep behind the wheel.

[rebel]

The Road Code has no legal standing. The actual Rule says you must move as far as practicable to the right before turning, but you may move to the left and not be in breach of the Rule if you can prove you did it for safety reasons. Which is why you don't see it policed.

Yep I just checked out of interest, and you're correct that there is no legal standing, but the road code does advise to pull to the left if turning right at open road uncontrolled intersections. This should be policed on a case by case basis.

[PrincessBandit]

Take a look at the width of SH3 in this area by looking at the Google Maps link earlier and edit your post as you consider necessary :rolleyes:

Nah, ok, maybe not a 72-point turn then.....

[FJRider]

Yep I just checked out of interest, and you're correct that there is no legal standing, but the road code does advise to pull to the left if turning right at open road uncontrolled intersections. This should be policed on a case by case basis.

I find it hard to believe that you can suggest/imply/declare ... "advice" with "no legal standing" ... can be "Policed" ... :blink:

[rebel]

I find it hard to believe that you can suggest/imply/declare ... "advice" with "no legal standing" ... can be "Policed" ... :blink:

Policed was the wrong word, a precautionary warning might be better, much in the same way it could be applied to those who drive in fog/overcast rain/twilight with no lights.

[FJRider]

Policed was the wrong word, a precautionary warning might be better, much in the same way it could be applied to those who drive in fog/overcast rain/twilight with no lights.

Under the current "Police Quota" rules .... this offence carries little penalty and therefore is seldom enforced (except to relieve the boredom of the officer concerned) :shifty:

[ynot slow]

Luck or whatever you want to name it,we all need it on the road.Sure riding is safe or as dangerous as we make it,but there are the unknown situations we have no avoidance of,i.e a blow out,cars doing stupid manouveres,engine seizure(especially a single cylinder mid corner),bloody hawks or other large birds,all these things can be catastophic to us,if they don't happen we may say that was good luck.

Usually when I arrive home I think,that was choice and think I am lucky to enjoy the ride and arrive home safely,tonight was one of those nights,left in sunny weather,mid way wind(strong)and rain,temperature drop pretty impressive,so yes I think it was luck that I didn't fall off,get knocked off(cars on my side of road)no slips in gorges etc.

The saying "there for the grace of God go I " is apt at times,who cares what we think,a biking comrade lost his life,whether the accident was preventable is a mute point,as most accidents are.

[Patrick]

.... (I rode that road 24 hours earlier). At 100kmh the motorcyclist would have had fak all choices when confronted with a lane full of tractor, or do you suggest slowing for every brow?

This happened on the main road north out of Taranaki and could just as easily ended with a tractor munted by a B-train. It was not a clever manoeuvre on the tractor's part.

I drive this piece daily, its just around the corner from home.

The brow isn't that severe even at more than normal pace. That tractor was big enough to be seen quite early, over the brow. So was the rotary it was hauling.

A B-Train would have spotted it sooner, being higher up and all... The bike is higher up than most cars too...

[MSTRS]

I drive this piece daily, its just around the corner from home.

The brow isn't that severe even at more than normal pace. That tractor was big enough to be seen quite early, over the brow. So was the rotary it was hauling.

A B-Train would have spotted it sooner, being higher up and all... The bike is higher up than most cars too...

Which leaves 3 scenarios...
1. Rider going at a gazillion miles an hour
2. Rider distracted/not paying attention
3. Rider misjudged the room available, and/or the tractor moved into the space

Sorry - 4 scenarios
4. A combination of the above

All of which involve the rider, in greater part than the tractor driver.

I still think that turning across yellows is not a great idea, but looking at Google street view (to refresh my memory of the area), turning here is not the problem. The opposing traffic is 2 laned and yellowed because they are still approaching the brow plus passing lanes are usually yellowed so as to not be greedy. Why the downhill lane (tractor and bike) are yellowed is anyone's guess...it's not a visibility thing at that point.

[Naki Rat]

......

I still think that turning across yellows is not a great idea, but looking at Google street view (to refresh my memory of the area), turning here is not the problem. The opposing traffic is 2 laned and yellowed because they are still approaching the brow plus passing lanes are usually yellowed so as to not be greedy. Why the downhill lane (tractor and bike) are yellowed is anyone's guess...it's not a visibility thing at that point.
No so much a criticism as a point to ponder is that Google takes its photos from a mast well above the car roof it is mounted on with a wide angle (panorama) type lens, which provides a less than realistic view compared to that of a motorist (e.g. the brow appears significantly 'flatter' in GSV than it is in reality).

[MSTRS]

Yeah, I know that. But I also know the road somewhat, so Streetview just helps to clarify what is where. Like Armco, hedges, driveways, passing lane/s, etc.
It was Patrick that said the brow is not 'sharp'...

[rocketman1]

Very sorry to hear about this my thoughts go out to the remaining family and friends.

[miloking]

correct you didn't, but if life is about ....fucking luck and nothing else. there's not really anything else you have to rely on




+1 so you noticed that too?

Yeah sure i said that and whether its true or not that our lives are based on mere chance/luck most of the time, still that doesnt mean i FUCKING RELY on it... are you two stoned or something???

[Patrick]

Which leaves 3 scenarios...
1. Rider going at a gazillion miles an hour
2. Rider distracted/not paying attention
3. Rider misjudged the room available, and/or the tractor moved into the space

Sorry - 4 scenarios
4. A combination of the above

All of which involve the rider, in greater part than the tractor driver.

........ Why the downhill lane (tractor and bike) are yellowed is anyone's guess...it's not a visibility thing at that point.

Go for 4....

The downhill also approaches a slightly blind bend and a busy T intersection, hence the yellows there.....

[That looks like fun]

This may sound a bit callous so I will point out right now it is not intended to show disrespect or thoughtlessness to a fellow rider. :love:
I brought both my kids scooters when they were old enough to start traveling alone and told them both the same thing.
"It don't mean squat to the dead person who is in the right".
As I travel through life I learn and grow. There are many ways I can do this and one is by mistakes. I can learn from my own or less painfully from others.
One lesson I have learned (and continue to be taught) is that I can only control my own actions. Those of circumstance's and people around me I can try to influence but ultimately its up to me to do my best to keep me from trouble and harm.
Its a balancing act between staying safe and following that mad impulse. The corner that just asks for a bit more throttle,:yes: that bike you are following and you know you can take him :shifty: That feeling in your soul when you squeeze that throttle the noise increase,s and you leap forward into the next gap as the cagers mutter about temporary NZers, ha what do they know about freedom.
Sometimes my smile is so wide that helmet gets damn tight, or times like this when my eyes leak a little for those left behind.
Call it luck, call it skill, sometimes its not enough.
Ride safe, in whatever style that means to you :ride: