No news from MNZ about ratification of rules

[Kiwi Graham]

1st September has been and gone and no news on whats what for next season.

Anyone know anything for sure?

[Maido]

Talked to pete yesterday, something should be announced very shortly. Thats all I know.

[slowpoke]

It will be interesting to see if they announce a revised race format too.

[wayne]

unfair if they change number of races this late in season ............?????????

[Maido]

unfair if they change number of races this late in season ............?????????

unfair making the last round double points.

[Robert Taylor]

unfair making the last round double points.

How about just unfair ( for a myriad of reasons including last minute interference ) that its September and the summer racing is oh so close. No rules signed off and set in concrete.

Highly unfair on all competitors and all interested parties. Its actually a huge disgrace. In fairness the commission is not totally to blame for this debacle.

[Shaun]

How about just unfair ( for a myriad of reasons including last minute interference ) that its September and the summer racing is oh so close. No rules signed off and set in concrete.

Highly unfair on all competitors and all interested parties. Its actually a huge disgrace. In fairness the commission is not totally to blame for this debacle.



I heard KAWASAKI might know some thing about this, but what would I know

[Bykmad]

The proposed Rules are on the MNZ website now. They are under Information and sub heading Proposed Rule Changes

[Mental Trousers]

The proposed Rules are on the MNZ website now. They are under Information and sub heading Proposed Rule Changes

"Proposed" mate. Not confirmed.

[steveyb]

If y'all just raced 125GP then you would know where you stand. Not much that can be messed with there.
:innocent:

[Str8 Jacket]

If y'all just raced 125GP then you would know where you stand. Not much that can be messed with there.
:innocent:

Those bloody things stink mate! ;)

[Robert Taylor]

Can anyone clarify if legally all submissions can be made public? If so it would make interesting reading.

[cowpoos]

Can anyone clarify if legally all submissions can be made public? If so it would make interesting reading.

of course they can...if you write it...you can do what ever you want with it.
and unless there is a legitimate disclaimer and or copy right...anyone can use it...

[Shaun]

Can anyone clarify if legally all submissions can be made public? If so it would make interesting reading.


I asked Peter Ramage the same question 2-3 weeks ago, he told me that it was privy information to the commitee only? being a member/ % owner of MNZ, I would have thought we would have been entiteled to read all, ie, like the financuall break down, Why the secrets:shit:

[SWERVE]

mmmmmmmmm....... bet those submissions would make for some very intersting reading/analysis.
Lets hope "sense" pervails for once..................... or am i being a tad optomistic.:shutup:

[Robert Taylor]

Its still extremely disgraceful that it is now September and the rules are not yet signed off. This is the time of year that given an improvement in weather serious testing starts.
Product has to be forward ordered and with many products there are quite extended lead times, even moreso that many manufacturers have less production capacity given the economic turmoil around the world. Racers need to know where they stood at least 2 months ago and to budget for it.
Those of you that have stalled the process ( and Im not including the commission in this ) shame on you. You are messing with people lives at all levels.

[Shaun]

I really just want to know who the DICK/S "claimed engine tuners" were that asked for the rule change to the 600 rules under the pretext that it would be better for NZ riders wanting to go there and be competitive.

The fastest 3 600 riders in this country, can bearly afford to race here as the rules were, I smell a rat using this rule change to try and earn some money they have not been earning in a while, or maybe even to manage a team of kiwi riders to go to Australia again, smells like money money hunting to me, under a cloud of POO:yes: Will not be to bad for the riders out there that do NOT pay there bills to companies thet owe money to though, so hey, look at the bright side of life again eh

It is now at least $3000 dollars more to build a seriously competitive supersport bike, and we already had a Production 600 class set of rules in place. So all that has been achieved with these rule changes, is it is a shit load more exspensive:Punk: go figure, shops are closing down due to no sales, unemployment and debt extremelly high.

Anyhow, I am going to have a lot of fun building one of the fastest 600,z this country has seen for a while, with the help from very good over seas tuners advise, might even just have to saddle up again myself with my Zimerframe:shit:

[codgyoleracer]

Can anyone clarify if legally all submissions can be made public? If so it would make interesting reading.

Now theres an idea

[malcy25]

Not the only late thing, I got an invite to a stewards training event on Sat, in the mail yesterday....I hear it was on the website, but how many of us go looking for stwards training dates?

[Maido]

Can anyone clarify if legally all submissions can be made public? If so it would make interesting reading.

I think you would find that most people, if they got a chance to read the submissions, would probably turn it into a "lets bag the person who wrote it" contest, instead of rifiling through them constructively, trying to find if a consensus was actually reached through majority vote.
I, for one, have no interest in sifting through however many hundred submissions they recieved, my time is better spent actually building the engine haha.
BTW I am not one of the DICK/S that wanted the engine changed "to the 600 rules under the pretext that it would be better for NZ riders wanting to go there and be competitive". I wanted it changed so there is a clear differential between the SS and ST 600's unlike what was already in place.

/rant

[speedracerjimmy]

I really just want to know who the DICK/S "claimed engine tuners" were that asked for the rule change to the 600 rules under the pretext that it would be better for NZ riders wanting to go there and be competitive.

The fastest 3 600 riders in this country, can bearly afford to race here as the rules were, I smell a rat using this rule change to try and earn some money they have not been earning in a while, or maybe even to manage a team of kiwi riders to go to Australia again, smells like money money hunting to me, under a cloud of POO:yes: Will not be to bad for the riders out there that do NOT pay there bills to companies thet owe money to though, so hey, look at the bright side of life again eh

It is now at least $3000 dollars more to build a seriously competitive supersport bike, and we already had a Production 600 class set of rules in place. So all that has been achieved with these rule changes, is it is a shit load more exspensive:Punk: go figure, shops are closing down due to no sales, unemployment and debt extremelly high.

Anyhow, I am going to have a lot of fun building one of the fastest 600,z this country has seen for a while, with the help from very good over seas tuners advise, might even just have to saddle up again myself with my Zimerframe:shit:

i agree that the 600 rules have gone too far just like the sbk ones have also.
I have a feeling that this could be a way of killing these classes off and moving more towards the superstock classes for the future.

[fossil]

Its still extremely disgraceful that it is now September and the rules are not yet signed off. This is the time of year that given an improvement in weather serious testing starts.
Product has to be forward ordered and with many products there are quite extended lead times, even moreso that many manufacturers have less production capacity given the economic turmoil around the world. Racers need to know where they stood at least 2 months ago and to budget for it.
Those of you that have stalled the process ( and Im not including the commission in this ) shame on you. You are messing with people lives at all levels.

Rather than cast aspersions, how about you name names Robert, if you are so sure that the process has been stalled.
Before I posted this I actually rang Jim Tuckerman and asked him why the delay. His response was "we only got the final draft from the Commission at 11pm on the 30th August and they are being worked on as quickly as possible"

[Robert Taylor]

Rather than cast aspersions, how about you name names Robert, if you are so sure that the process has been stalled.
Before I posted this I actually rang Jim Tuckerman and asked him why the delay. His response was "we only got the final draft from the Commission at 11pm on the 30th August and they are being worked on as quickly as possible"

I rang him too ( among other MNZ people )and there are some sensitivities that Im not going to belie. Regardless it is still digraceful that this has taken so long.
Were all submissions made public it might paint a different complexion, that is what might be interesting.

[Robert Taylor]

i agree that the 600 rules have gone too far just like the sbk ones have also.
I have a feeling that this could be a way of killing these classes off and moving more towards the superstock classes for the future.

It almost seems calculatingly deliberate were you to be totally cynical about it.....

[Kiwi Graham]

There a regs out there that are already work and are being used (aussie) If the plan is to align ourselves to make it possible to compete across the ditch then why not adopt those regs lock stock and barrell (pun intended).

Having it known that submissions would be made public would make the submissions sent in probably more realistic than no doubt many were!
Probably alot less also so making the whole process a damb sight quicker.

Edit;

From the MNZ web site,

DELAY IN THE ROAD RACE RULES


03 September 2010


It is extremely disappointing to MNZ's Board to announce the September 1st deadline for the publication of the 'New' Road Race rules has had to be delayed.

The Board only received the draft rules at 11.00pm on August 30th from Maarty Van Booma on behalf of the Road Race Commission.
This did not give the Board, the time it required to review the rules by the deadline.

The rules will be posted as soon as possible.


B J (Jim) Tuckerman
President
Motorcycling New Zealand Inc.

[Robert Taylor]

There a regs out there that are already work and are being used (aussie) If the plan is to align ourselves to make it possible to compete across the ditch then why not adopt those regs lock stock and barrell (pun intended).

Having it known that submissions would be made public would make the submissions sent in probably more realistic than no doubt many were!
Probably alot less also so making the whole process a damb sight quicker.

Edit;

From the MNZ web site,

DELAY IN THE ROAD RACE RULES


03 September 2010


It is extremely disappointing to MNZ's Board to announce the September 1st deadline for the publication of the 'New' Road Race rules has had to be delayed.

The Board only received the draft rules at 11.00pm on August 30th from Maarty Van Booma on behalf of the Road Race Commission.
This did not give the Board, the time it required to review the rules by the deadline.

The rules will be posted as soon as possible.


B J (Jim) Tuckerman
President
Motorcycling New Zealand Inc.

On the face of it its a noble thought to align the rules more closely with Australia. But in many ways its a ''thin '' argument. If we are talking with respect to the two premier classes how many Aussie riders come and race here in those classes? Aside from those that have been paid for by distributor money when it was flowing more freely in better economic times........ And they dont bring their own bikes with them.
And how many 600 and 1000cc riders from NZ cross the ditch to Austruckingfailure with their own bikes? Correct me if Im wrong but this year it has only been John Ross and he has scraped every last cent and some to do so.
Shaun is 100% correct in that the new 600 Supersport and Superbike rules will force the costs up and that may be to the detriment of those classes. Lets not forget that compared to our Aussie cousins we are paid rather a lot less and have less expendable income.
So what was with a proposal to allow lightweight wheels in Superbike which would have been a step further than is allowed in Oz and would have pushed the costs up even further?
The reality is that the classes as they were were not far off the mark and a move to a more Superstock formula with allowing aftermarket rear shocks and cartridges would have been the most sensible thing to do. That may sound as if its protecting my future business but a lot of people just dont know the half of it how there has to be a lot of time consuming re-engineering of stock suspension to remove a lot of the mass produced flaws and make it work half acceptably. Funny how companies like Race Tech started life producing kits and singing the virtues of modifying stock suspension. Now that very same company manufactures complete shocks and cartridge kits.
As I understand it a 5 minute to midnight proposal came from one distributor that otherwise puts very very little money into road racing with personnell rarely seen, this distributor wanted to run box stock suspension in 600s, which states rather a lot about this distributors total lack of understanding how modern day chassis and tyres place lots of load on the suspension systems. Also ignoring the fact that worldwide in every first world country there are many suspension companies and tuners that are dedicated to making suspension perform at least acceptably on the tracks! Does this distributor know something that all these people dont, should WSBK and WSS600 all be running box stock suspension?
This has been well documented before and are these guys so blind they cannot see? Heck 1) even trackday riders have issues with rapid tyre degradation and poor chassis control with stock suspension and 2) even a competitor in my field who is wayward in some of his opinions ( from brief experience ) stated to the effect that running box stock suspension would be just horrible.
There is a real stench in the air over this proposal as the distributor in question seemingly kept Suzuki NZ out of the loop, a company that far and away puts the most money into road racing in this country.
Disgraceful.

[Bren_chch]

There is a real stench in the air over this proposal as the distributor in question seemingly kept Suzuki NZ out of the loop, a company that far and away puts the most money into road racing in this country.
Disgraceful.

So that would be Kawasaki then?? Very odd. Why they would propose a rule like that, I mean really... why, any serious ideas?




this distributors total lack of understanding how modern day chassis and tyres place lots of load on the suspension systems.
Have you seen WSBK lately? :D

[SS90]

As I understand it a 5 minute to midnight proposal came from one distributor that otherwise puts very very little money into road racing with personnell rarely seen, this distributor wanted to run box stock suspension in 600s, which states rather a lot about this distributors total lack of understanding how modern day chassis and tyres place lots of load on the suspension systems. Also ignoring the fact that worldwide in every first world country there are many suspension companies and tuners that are dedicated to making suspension perform at least acceptably on the tracks! Does this distributor know something that all these people dont, should WSBK and WSS600 all be running box stock suspension?
This has been well documented before and are these guys so blind they cannot see? Heck 1) even trackday riders have issues with rapid tyre degradation and poor chassis control with stock suspension and 2) even a competitor in my field who is wayward in some of his opinions ( from brief experience ) stated to the effect that running box stock suspension would be just horrible.
There is a real stench in the air over this proposal as the distributor in question seemingly kept Suzuki NZ out of the loop, a company that far and away puts the most money into road racing in this country.
Disgraceful.

I don't think that anyone wants to destroy the class, rather that I see it as this distributor wants part of the action regarding racing based sales success, such as Suzuki has seen for the last few decades, and, as is true of any corporation, no one wants to enter a race (at any importer sponsored level) unless they have a very real chance of winning....by that I mean damned near guaranteed.

As far as national level racing domination, Suzuki damned near wrote the book on such things as far as NZ is concerned, and as such have a huge advantage over any pretender to the throne.

particularly when it comes to the set up for each track, and performance improvements, networks and back up.

Put an established brand into the championship ( the last time I remember Kawasaki giving anyone any real help before this year was Russell Josia, and that was what, 1994?

If I was in Kawasaki's position, and I needed/wanted to get in on the game and have at least a chance of dominating a class, I too would want to level the playing field, and pushing for a true production class is the best way to do that.

Everyone would start from basically point zero.... All the advantages of having an established importer backed racing program will be gone, and it would open the championships right up.

The downside is think how pissed off "The crooked cross" would be, literally millions of $ over the last decade or so, that, even 8 years ago spawned the Suzuki race series with Tim Gibbs, and really revitalised the NZ race scene, as well as the road bike scene.

What did the others do during this time? hell, I can't even remember....... Suzuki had stolen the limelight so much that unless the "other 3" had done nothing short of send the managing directors naked through the streets of Wanganui, we would not have even remembered they exist.

we should never forget that what we have now, we owe a huge thanks to Suzuki.

I would love to see Kawasaki push the established bikes and teams, but I am of the opinion that you have to earn your place on the podium....... All the others sat back for years and watched Suzuki "own the racetrack", (and the sales figures), and now want a piece of the pie..... I am of the opinion that they need to do some fast catch up work first, establish the dealer network like Suzuki have, improve their marketing (always lacking in NZ as far as Kawasaki is concerned) and invest in the racing scene.

Then they are likely to get some support from all sides of the sport.

[k14]

Yeah I reckon they should make the submissions public. There was no fineprint when you sent it saying that it would be private. I made one but couldn't care less if everyone was allowed to read it.

[Kiwi Graham]

How the hell can one manufacturer hold the whole of New Zealand to ransom FFS!

Suzuki have got to where they are through commitment and investment not by chucking toys out of the cot and demanding the rules should be set up around them.

Yamaha came 1st and second last season in 1000 superstock so its not gone all Suzuki's way at all.

I believe superstock is the way ahead (at the moment) and there isn't much wrong with the regs that dictate to them. If you want bikes on the grid then cost is the obvious limiting factor. Shit how many people can really afford a full on competitive superbike/supersport bike in this financial climate other than the supported teams? Simple affordable rules/regs is what's needed for both classes. Oh and it would have been nice to have had them in a timely manner so those without bottomless pockets can/could have built there bikes without the risk of a divorce!

RT - the Aussie rules may be a bit thin but it would align with them and even a small hole in the dam can lead to a trickle etc

I'm sure Kawasaki are going to get a higher profile this season if Nick fires on the 10 even Mr Fitzgerald is out punting a green machine (but what will he be on come nationals?) so why the dummy spiting and demands?

KG

[White trash]

I'm sure Kawasaki are going to get a higher profile this season if Nick fires on the 10

Nope. Nick's a nice young chap but I don't think even he will be expecting to take it to the front guys in his first season on a completely undeveloped bike.

It's gonna be business as usual at the front this season with the addition of more consistancy from Craig "I blow goats" Shirriffs now that he's returned to the fold. The real cat amongst the pidgeons will be Choppa on the old mans bike.

[Kiwi Graham]

Nope. Nick's a nice young chap but I don't think even he will be expecting to take it to the front guys in his first season on a completely undeveloped bike.

The real cat amongst the pidgeons will be Choppa on the old mans bike.

Good point re Nick and good luck to him;

Wonder if BMW jumped up and down and demanded this that and the other or just quietly got on with it and arrived on the scene with something that can compete? :shifty:

[Robert Taylor]

Good point re Nick and good luck to him;

Wonder if BMW jumped up and down and demanded this that and the other or just quietly got on with it and arrived on the scene with something that can compete? :shifty:

There is no official BMW involvement.

[Shaun]

So that would be Kawasaki then?? Very odd. Why they would propose a rule like that, I mean really... why, any serious ideas?

Call WAYNE LIST at Kawasaki NZ Technical, and ask HIM, He Might know who pushed this???


He does know a lot about racing in the early 70;s mmmmmmm

[Shaun]

Nope. Nick's a nice young chap but I don't think even he will be expecting to take it to the front guys in his first season on a completely undeveloped bike...

Disagree mate, if No bad preperation, No crashes, Nick will finish the season top 3 I believe.

[CHOPPA]

Disagree mate, if No bad preperation, No crashes, Nick will finish the season top 3 I believe.

Yup Nick will be up there for sure, even on the Kawasaki haha

[cowpoos]

Nope. Nick's a nice young chap but I don't think even he will be expecting to take it to the front guys in his first season on a completely undeveloped bike.

he'll be on a old zx10r won't he??

[steveyb]

Believe that they have the very latest ZX-10 available, but that is the 2010 model is it not?
Not the new one 'cos it hasn't been released yet.
Go Green!

[cowpoos]

Believe that they have the very latest ZX-10 available, but that is the 2010 model is it not?
Not the new one 'cos it hasn't been released yet.
Go Green!

The old one...like choppa rode...tis a shame.............

[CHOPPA]

The old one...like choppa rode...tis a shame.............

I think at a domestic level theres nothing wrong with the Kawasaki, I didnt notice the diff between the kawasaki and the suzuki or the bmw for that matter hahaha

Id say it will be fast though, kawasaki had a shit load of go fast parts that we were not aloud to run but you can run them this year

[Bren_chch]

I didnt notice the diff between the kawasaki and the suzuki or the bmw for that matter

i bet you'd notice it now!

[nick2slow]

[QUOTE=White trash;1129851712]Nope. Nick's a nice young chap but I don't think even he will be expecting to take it to the front guys in his first season on a completely undeveloped bike.

oh how i love 2 be bagged, makes it that much sweeter. i cant wait!!!.. "kawasaki and nick are to fat win a 600 race" i enjoyed making him eat his words!!

[White trash]

oh how i love 2 be bagged, makes it that much sweeter. i cant wait!!!.. "kawasaki and nick are to fat win a 600 race" i enjoyed making him eat his words!!

You obviously read as good as you interview there fella. I'm far from "bagging" ya. I'll be cheering louder than anyone if you're mixing it at the front from the start.

[nick2slow]

You obviously read as good as you interview there fella. I'm far from "bagging" ya. I'll be cheering louder than anyone if you're mixing it at the front from the start.

sorry, yeh wasnt really saying u were jst used yr quote. still a virgin at useing this forum :innocent:

[SS90]

sorry, yeh wasnt really saying u were jst used yr quote. still a virgin at useing this forum :innocent:

And spelling,punctuation and grammar.

[Yow Ling]

And spelling,punctuation and grammar.

should really have a space after the comma.

[White trash]

And spelling,punctuation and grammar.

Lol. Nothing wrong with bad puncuation and grammar on a biker forum. Especially when ya ride a bike like some of these cats can. Ever tried to decode any of Craigs posts? Makes Nick look like Hitcher........

[Shaun]

Nope. Nick's a nice young chap but I don't think even he will be expecting to take it to the front guys in his first season on a completely undeveloped bike.

It's gonna be business as usual at the front this season with the addition of more consistancy from Craig "I blow goats" Shirriffs now that he's returned to the fold. The real cat amongst the pidgeons will be Choppa on the old mans bike.



whot du fuk wood u no enywey, carnt evin supli a shipin qwote:Punk:

[Shaun]

Can anyone clarify if legally all submissions can be made public? If so it would make interesting reading.



I can now Guarantee you that, if you become a PAID member of MNZ, you are ENTITLED to read all. Unless the information has been lost of course, and these things can happen.

MNZ them selves are working hard on getting the rules finally clarified

Where is that One man band of the last few years, Thanks again Paul Stewart.

[Shaun]

I think you would find that most people, if they got a chance to read the submissions, would probably turn it into a "lets bag the person who wrote it" contest, instead of rifiling through them constructively, trying to find if a consensus was actually reached through majority vote.
I, for one, have no interest in sifting through however many hundred submissions they recieved, my time is better spent actually building the engine haha.
BTW I am not one of the DICK/S that wanted the engine changed "to the 600 rules under the pretext that it would be better for NZ riders wanting to go there and be competitive". I wanted it changed so there is a clear differential between the SS and ST 600's unlike what was already in place.

/rant


Haha. you know I like ya, even you are a Dick.

What was the problem before mate, was your SS Spec bike not fast enough against STOCK standard motors:shit:

[snapoff]

I really just want to know who the DICK/S "claimed engine tuners" were that asked for the rule change to the 600 rules under the pretext that it would be better for NZ riders wanting to go there and be competitive.

The fastest 3 600 riders in this country, can bearly afford to race here as the rules were, I smell a rat using this rule change to try and earn some money they have not been earning in a while, or maybe even to manage a team of kiwi riders to go to Australia again, smells like money money hunting to me, under a cloud of POO:yes: Will not be to bad for the riders out there that do NOT pay there bills to companies thet owe money to though, so hey, look at the bright side of life again eh

It is now at least $3000 dollars more to build a seriously competitive supersport bike, and we already had a Production 600 class set of rules in place. So all that has been achieved with these rule changes, is it is a shit load more exspensive:Punk: go figure, shops are closing down due to no sales, unemployment and debt extremelly high.

Anyhow, I am going to have a lot of fun building one of the fastest 600,z this country has seen for a while, with the help from very good over seas tuners advise, might even just have to saddle up again myself with my Zimerframe:shit:

Well you have been skiming barrels and heads for along time now ,if anybody knows how to get a bike going fast you would. not like any of your 600hundys (honda, alot of suzukis) were ever slow.:2guns:

[Robert Taylor]

Well you have been skiming barrels and heads for along time now ,if anybody knows how to get a bike going fast you would. not like any of your 600hundys (honda, alot of suzukis) were ever slow.:2guns:

Weighing nothing and having well sorted suspension accounts for a lot of speed. Just take Dani Pedrosa as a good example.

[Shaun]

Well you have been skiming barrels and heads for along time now ,if anybody knows how to get a bike going fast you would. not like any of your 600hundys (honda, alot of suzukis) were ever slow.:2guns:


I so love cowards who hide behind bolox names, that have no guts and no proof of anything

Is your name something to do with your Dick

[Kiwi Graham]

Soooooooooo,

On the MNZ web site they declare there frustration of the delay and we have since learnt of the possible reasons why but no indication of when we might have ratification.

Another week, two weeks, next month??

I appreciate people must be getting on with it behind the scenes but some idea would be nice.

[Shaun]

Soooooooooo,

On the MNZ web site they declare there frustration of the delay and we have since learnt of the possible reasons why but no indication of when we might have ratification.

Another week, two weeks, next month??

I appreciate people must be getting on with it behind the scenes but some idea would be nice.


I believe it will be clarified by Monday mate, lots of wording needs changing etc apparently. And PS, just leave the Shite stiring to me eh GIT:shifty:

[Kiwi Graham]

PS, just leave the Shite stiring to me eh GIT:shifty:

Dont worry buddy you will have no competition from me (on or off track ;))