My communication about the set of "draft" rules released a while back

[Shaun]

>
> Hi Team
>
> Thanks for your efforts for our sport.
>
> My comments on the proposed rules for the Supersport 600 class
>
> Sorry guy;s, but how does making an engine faster, by allowing more
> machining to the head and barrels help make the sport any healthier, And
> Brian B Knows first hand the cost involved in building a motor like
> this,
> the only advantage I can see, is for Engine builders out there only!!
>
> Our sport lacks competitors and professional promotion, and to now turn
> around and make it even more expensive to try and be fast in the current
> world economy, is crazy to me!
>
> Trying to do this with the idea that it is going to get more kiwi riders
> out there is not a bad thought, but I believe it is Not going to do a
> thing, accept decrease the amount of riders in the elite 600 class.
>
> WORDING CHOICE OF RULES FOR STOCK BIKES
>
> Please tell me they are all going to be re read and written, as there a
> few gaping holes in the current wording, and I can guarantee certain
> parties are laughing there faces off, and intend to stretch them to the
> max if they go though as added.
>
> Sorry, I cannot elaborate on this part any more, but please read them
> looking for the holes, that a cleaver English speaking person has found
> to
> there HUGE advantage
>
> Best Regards
> Shaun Harris
>
>

[Shaun]

83 views and no one else's subs posted? Lets share

[Mom]

Morning Shaun :D

I will bite. Help a gal out though would you? These rules that have not been ratified, what are they? Who decided they needed changing? What is the impact the changes are going to have to the sport? Why is it taking so long to get sorted?

Plenty more questions but there is a starter.

[Shaun]

Morning Shaun :D

I will bite. Help a gal out though would you? These rules that have not been ratified, what are they?

1) They were posted on MNZ web site a few months back now, and NO, they are still not 100%, mainly concers SS600 and SB and Superstock classes




Who decided they needed changing?

2) NO idea, have asked to see all the emails sent in with individuals ( Kawasaki) suggestions, but have been told by Peter Ramage, that I cannot view them, yet MNZ is a club org, which I am a financuall mamber off, so some thing rather starange there in the firsty place. There is a Road Race commitee of 5 to sif through all those recieved suggestions


What is the impact the changes are going to have to the sport?

3) Make it al least $3000 more to race in the SS600 or SB class MINIMUM


Why is it taking so long to get sorted?

4) one of the 5 commitee members returned the groups decision at the very last minute, ( I am assuming here) that they believed MNZ would just simply accept what they had drafted up as the new rules, but it does not work that way, so a couple of intelligent men are having to go through it all, to change wording etc to cover any grey area;s in wording etc

Plenty more questions but there is a starter.

Hope that explains a little for you MUM

[SS90]

Ok, if no-one else will have a go.........

What Shaun writes pretty much sums it up really.

You have true Veteran (in every sense of the word) of the racing scene putting his experienced opinion forward on something that will determine the shape of this sport, and the most worrying thing is that no one will permit any outside person to read the current proposal.

That quite frankly is disgusting.

It is clear for anyone with a modicum of common sense that this is being pushed by distributors, purely to increase sales...nothing more...nothing less.

For everyone to remain so apathetic about it all is equally disturbing.

The harsh relaity of racing in NZ is that it is largely a money hole, with the chances of "going international" somewhat slim..... And here we have one of the lucky bunch trying to keep what slim chance there is, alive.

The idea of increasing the costs involved in setting up a bike, in any way is ludacris, it's far too much as it is, and has sent many riders into big debt.

The current format is not perfect, no one says it is, but it is one that has evolved, somewhat naturally, based on the type of market NZ has.

Clearly, we cannot use other markets as an example when it come to running a domestic series, NZ has only 4 million people, and most of them don't give a toss about bike racing at the best of times.

Instead of changing the rules so dramatically, why don't they look at streamlining what they already have..... Motorcross in NZ continues to thrive, and one of those reasons is that it is somewhat more affordable and family friendly than road racing.

Address those problems and you might start to get somewhere.

Increasing the cost, just to finish the same position in a championship you would have if the or cost was $3000 cheaper is nuts.

[Robert Taylor]

Ok, if no-one else will have a go.........

What Shaun writes pretty much sums it up really.

You have true Veteran (in every sense of the word) of the racing scene putting his experienced opinion forward on something that will determine the shape of this sport, and the most worrying thing is that no one will permit any outside person to read the current proposal.

That quite frankly is disgusting.

It is clear for anyone with a modicum of common sense that this is being pushed by distributors, purely to increase sales...nothing more...nothing less.

For everyone to remain so apathetic about it all is equally disturbing.

The harsh relaity of racing in NZ is that it is largely a money hole, with the chances of "going international" somewhat slim..... And here we have one of the lucky bunch trying to keep what slim chance there is, alive.

The idea of increasing the costs involved in setting up a bike, in any way is ludacris, it's far too much as it is, and has sent many riders into big debt.

The current format is not perfect, no one says it is, but it is one that has evolved, somewhat naturally, based on the type of market NZ has.

Dimo,y, we cannot use other markets as an example when it come to running a domestic series, NZ has only 4 million people, and most of them don't give a toss about bike racing at the best of times.

Instead of changing the rules so dramatically, why don't they look at streamlining what they already have..... Motorcross in NZ continues to thrive, and one of those reasons is that it is somewhat more affordable and family friendly than road racing.

Address those problems and you might start to get somewhere.

Increasing the cost, just to finish the same position in a championship you would have if the or cost was $3000 cheaper is nuts.

Just briefly and I have read this all too quickly, 3 of the main distributors have their feet firmly planted on the ground and have people that actually understand road racing.

MX thrives at certain levels but the Nationals are beset by similiar problems to road race. Ill read your e-mail again tonight

[Robert Taylor]

''Never in the field of messing around with rules has so much bewilderment for so many been created by so few''

[codgyoleracer]

Shaun:
My comments were submitted as below - and revolve around Formula 3 and the proposed 250GP bikes being bought into the class. Happy to share my view on that matter.

I have openly discussed elswhere my views on 600 stock V supersport & same for the 1000's. Personally i dont see the point in having two seperate classes and would like to see someone make a call & decide on one so that the guys can all move forward on one road. (her is a hint though - choose the one that keeps costs at a moderate level)

Only concern with stock(ish) engines though is policing of the rules.......

Below was my submission onthe F3 proposal: Look forward to seeing others views. It looks like the GP250's didnt make iot in though at this stage.


Hi Guys (commison)

Ref: F3/Sportsbike rules/proposals

Have had a look at the proposed race rules for F3/sportsbike. Please do not take these comments as sour grapes!

The main item I see is the inclusion of GP250 bikes in the class, at that It contradicts :
- The class outline in respect of pitting "similar performance" machines against each other

My explanation on the above:
1) The horsepower figure for these machines in standard trim would be similar to a current top "F3" bike for a 250GP machine on 98 fuel (low 80 hp mark) , however hp/weight ratio is well out of balance with current F3 machines. Chris Osborne has the dyno graphs for you to refer to.
2) The word "sportsbike" - indicates "predominantly production based machines, - A GP bike has no resemblance to a production machine
3) The word "formula" - (i note is no longer used ) , but is still historically relevant to the class. A GP bike has no relevance to a "Formula" bike. A dedicated GP machine is quite simply manufactured for one thing and is in no way a formula of developed parts.
4) I have been told that lap times are to be used as an 'example of proof" to let the GP250 machines run in this class , then it is best to use average / good (ish) riders for this example. Troy Odonahue Manfield times a number of years ago 1m.12sec, Glen Jeffries Pukekohe times 1m 1sec, Hayden Bool Ruapuna 1m35sec. These are old bikes, with pretty good riders punting them - so are relevant to make the comparison. More than 10 years a go , a very good overseas rider was in single figures at Manfield on an old bike..........
5) The 250GP bikes " in their day" were competing strongly (and winning) against 4 cylinder 600cc carbureted machines and also water cooled 748cc VTwins, - so therefore it would be reasonable to allow these machines to also be allowed to compete in the class. However If the commission thinks it " not reasonable" to let these 600/748 machines compete in the class, then they have answered their own question on whether or not 250GP bikes belongs in F3/Sportsbike
7) Two strokes (especially 250's) are being discontinued in racing worldwide. If we wish to tow the line on a world-wide trend, and present a clean & green marketing image for this sport as a whole , then the two stroke engine should not be promoted.

Additional: The name "Sportsbike" is somewhat bland, and it is noted that the Victoria Motorcycle Club has already coined a name for Formula 3 called it "Superlite". it is a superior name in most respects and should be strongly considered (assuming that there is some marketing interest in mind ? ),

[codgyoleracer]

Will explain further my 600/1000 rule outline thoughts

600's supersport spec last year were pretty good overall, I would look at applying these same general rules to 1000's but allow slicks for them.

Glen

[Shaun]

Will explain further my 600/1000 rule outline thoughts

600's supersport spec last year were pretty good overall, I would look at applying these same general rules to 1000's but allow slicks for them.

Glen

Cheers for your input Glen, re what you say above, 95 % of the riders that race in these classes that I have spoken to by calling them, 100% AGREE with what you, I ,and others have said.

Regarding Roberts post about 3 manufacturers, having there feet on the ground, I will name and praise them highly

SUZUKI
HONDA
YAMAHA

Good on ya Team

[Wingnut]

I will probably get crucified here but:

There seems to be sooooo many alterations, submissions, changes, dissagreements, opinions, arguments regarding National Rules. Correct me if I am wrong but it appears that within each class there is only really a dozen or so "Serious Players" that go to each round and are competing towards a National Title.

Is all the pissing around and alterations really worth it? or am I missing something? Although re. major changes - these surely would need to be investigated further.

I mean no offense as I do realise that those that do race at this level, invest a shit load of $$ and time in their quest towards fulfilling theiir resoective goals. And by default - it is a serious subject to these "Players".

Anyway..... just an opinion.

Geoff.

[Ivan]

The Dissapointing thing for most people is they want there bikes ready for Nats now so they can start testing not waiting till the very last second to realise that the 3000 bucks on suspension etc is now a waste of money and has to be hauled off.

I think the point was smacked on the head earlier Aussy rules might allow more work but they also are earning alot more money at there work and prize money etc.

riders wanting to go overseas are gonna do it regardless of what rules NZ has,

If you wish to race internationally do it dont claim you cant be cause the bike you rode on NZ is differnt to the one you ride in Oz, US etc,

[Shaun]

''Never in the field of messing around with rules has so much bewilderment for so many been created by so few''




Robert, I have done my normall, and opened my mouth wide again again and again

SO are you prepared to copy us in all the emails you "MIGHT?" have sent around the place that may have a part in this hold up that you refer to as "Disrespectfull and playing with peoples lives" ?

Some one has unfortunately been out of order and named a manufacturer that wanted differenet to what was current, and me being me, I named them, glad I am an old man, and not wanting to maybe race one of there bikes one day.

I am sure you have the support behind you regarding the Quality of your product, ( Which Ohlin;s is good) but it must be time to copy us all in on your email trails about this subjest, or is that Confidentuall, ( I do appreciate that as the main Ohlin's dealer, of course you have direct Contrats with those 3 I Named) to disclose what you may have emailed to the Importers and else where, may shed some light on your posts on here regarding these issues

You know me better than 98% of people on here, and I only shoot from the hip Direct mate, so please amuse me, and break down your " well spoken English" and let the cats actually see your efforts RE the New New Zealand Rule proposals, remembering that all Diatribe sent to the commision, is accessable by any MNZ paid up memebr, by simply asking the MNZ office to supply copies of, once all is finalised, as I believe the Road race Commision is required to hand over all the correspondence regarding there brief.

[Shaun]

The Dissapointing thing for most people is they want there bikes ready for Nats now so they can start testing not waiting till the very last second to realise that the 3000 bucks on suspension etc is now a waste of money and has to be hauled off.

I think the point was smacked on the head earlier Aussy rules might allow more work but they also are earning alot more money at there work and prize money etc.

riders wanting to go overseas are gonna do it regardless of what rules NZ has,

If you wish to race internationally do it dont claim you cant be cause the bike you rode on NZ is differnt to the one you ride in Oz, US etc,


Well said Ivan, KiWI;s are soft now, and just want an exscuse to not try

[Shaun]

I will probably get crucified here but:

There seems to be sooooo many alterations, submissions, changes, dissagreements, opinions, arguments regarding National Rules. Correct me if I am wrong but it appears that within each class there is only really a dozen or so "Serious Players" that go to each round and are competing towards a National Title.

Is all the pissing around and alterations really worth it? or am I missing something? Although re. major changes - these surely would need to be investigated further.

I mean no offense as I do realise that those that do race at this level, invest a shit load of $$ and time in their quest towards fulfilling theiir resoective goals. And by default - it is a serious subject to these "Players".

Anyway..... just an opinion.

Geoff.


Not from me anyway, I also do noy understand why the WHEEL is tring to get re invented, apart from Money reasons perhaps- sales sales- sales

[Mom]

Hope that explains a little for you MUM

Thank you, and yes a bit clearer. So reading a bit more today, one thing I wonder, are these rule changes internationally driven? In other words, are we just changing to align with other international racing bodies rules, or is it a local initiative? Who is actually driving these changes?

Have these rule changes been rushed?

[CHOPPA]

Thank you, and yes a bit clearer. So reading a bit more today, one thing I wonder, are these rule changes internationally driven? In other words, are we just changing to align with other international racing bodies rules, or is it a local initiative? Who is actually driving these changes?

Have these rule changes been rushed?

I would be one of the very few that intents to race in OZ and these rules dont line up. Ill be racing Superstock in OZ but my bike is not superstock spec in NZ and we cant make it Superbike spec in NZ or it wont be Superstock spec for OZ.

[Mom]

I would be one of the very few that intents to race in OZ and these rules dont line up. Ill be racing Superstock in OZ but my bike is not superstock spec in NZ and we cant make it Superbike spec in NZ or it wont be Superstock spec for OZ.

That seems silly though. Surely it would be sensible to align NZ with the rest of the world? We are not unknown for producing world class, championship winning riders afterall. So, the question begs to be asked, what/who is driving these rule changes, and for what purpose?

[Kickaha]

That seems silly though. Surely it would be sensible to align NZ with the rest of the world?


Not if it adds a lot of expense to local racing when very few will race anywhere outside of NZ

[Mom]

Not if it adds a lot of expense to local racing when very few will race anywhere outside of NZ

Okay, so now it becomes clearer.

Are these proposed rule changes "that" far away from international standards?

Do we need to have "international standards" as the bottom line in our own competitions?

If we dont, how are we to grow our young up and coming?

Are the proposed standards going to rule out the ordinary (my apologies too btw, no offense intended) bloke/blokesses from competing?

Dear God, it is a bloody minefield!

[Robert Taylor]

Robert, I have done my normall, and opened my mouth wide again again and again

SO are you prepared to copy us in all the emails you "MIGHT?" have sent around the place that may have a part in this hold up that you refer to as "Disrespectfull and playing with peoples lives" ?

Some one has unfortunately been out of order and named a manufacturer that wanted differenet to what was current, and me being me, I named them, glad I am an old man, and not wanting to maybe race one of there bikes one day.

I am sure you have the support behind you regarding the Quality of your product, ( Which Ohlin;s is good) but it must be time to copy us all in on your email trails about this subjest, or is that Confidentuall, ( I do appreciate that as the main Ohlin's dealer, of course you have direct Contrats with those 3 I Named) to disclose what you may have emailed to the Importers and else where, may shed some light on your posts on here regarding these issues

You know me better than 98% of people on here, and I only shoot from the hip Direct mate, so please amuse me, and break down your " well spoken English" and let the cats actually see your efforts RE the New New Zealand Rule proposals, remembering that all Diatribe sent to the commision, is accessable by any MNZ paid up memebr, by simply asking the MNZ office to supply copies of, once all is finalised, as I believe the Road race Commision is required to hand over all the correspondence regarding there brief.

Any e-mails that I sent that may have ''held up'' the process are arguable in that respect. The reality is it took ages to get to a draft format and myself and another bit player in suspension largely concurred about what was ''a bridge too far''with respect to Superstock ( or should I say Supersilly 600 class ). I responded to requests for input and replied extremely quickly, without exception. As in all fairness so did the other party. Indeed I then found a major flaw in the F3 rules which was an unfortunate paste and copy, but nothing contentious at all to any parties.
The current holdup as I best understand it is almost totally down to one manufacturer who has had very little input into this sport over the years and has made a totally disproportionate noise at ''five minutes to midnight''. If anyone can enlighten all of us otherwise then Id be all ears.
Id love all of my correspondence and replies to be made public as I have absolutely nothing at all to cover up, the sad fact is Id be belying other parties trusts. If all and I mean ALL correspondence was released there would be a handful of people in high places and some industry bit players with major egg on their face, given condescending and patronising remarks, they know who they are .
The reality is the major distributors have had an interest in what transpires but 3 of them have not been trying to manipulate the process at all. Interesting to note that the people within these distributors that get involved in road racing wanted to allow aftermarket suspension in Superstock 600. Glen Williams is right, there isnt / wasnt a lot wrong with last seasons Supersport 600 class. Indeed its interesting also to note that pretty much all the current Supersport 600 riders that I have spoken to have bemoaned the considerable extra cost that will be incurred to try and stay competitive. They also ideally dont want to move to a class where they are not allowed to run aftermarket suspension, its benefits and backup they are so used to. My personal opinion is we dont need to bastardise the sport by having too many classes and the 600 class ( Supersport 600 ) could have been massaged a little by running close to or entirely 600 Superstock motor regs.
As for being similiar to Australia thats in reality a load of bollocks and I have stated my opinion why elsewhere.
Arguably the more recent MX Nationals have suffered similiar issues to the Road Race Nationals. Nationals are run between 2 Islands and at the latter rounds the field can thin out considerably. Predominantly why? Because of the cost of travel, accomodation, time away from work etc. NOT primarily machine cost, MX bikes are a lot cheaper to run, for most.
In both road racing and MX winter club events and regional meetings are all extremely well patronised, and the regs are quite open. I think theres a message in that.

We are 1/4 of the way through September, the situation that prevails is disgraceful.

[Ivan]

Okay, so now it becomes clearer.

Are these proposed rule changes "that" far away from international standards?

Do we need to have "international standards" as the bottom line in our own competitions?

If we dont, how are we to grow our young up and coming?

Are the proposed standards going to rule out the ordinary (my apologies too btw, no offense intended) bloke/blokesses from competing?

Dear God, it is a bloody minefield!


Theres no reason why a rider can not race his bike here and then say Shit I wanna go to the UK he gets there and buys his own bike over there to there rules and races it,

If a young driver is driven enough to compete overseas they will do what is required not make BSB rules in NZ to make him feel like he is racing at the same level as BSB racing etc,

We need to stop making excuses for us young guys and why we arenot at World Level its the fact we are not getting off our arses and doing it theres no reason why a young rider cant do this ar the fact we are not doing it changing rules to "emulate" a international series still is not going to get him overseas, But a Plane or boat and the will to suceed will

[Mom]

Theres no reason why a rider can not race his bike here and then say Shit I wanna go to the UK he gets there and buys his own bike over there to there rules and races it

Will he be competitive there, coming from our racing rule background though?

[Ivan]

Will he be competitive there, coming from our racing rule background though?

Yes anyone can be competive it depends how hard they try, I am going to be honest I am not the fastest rider out on track actually far from it but I look at the reason Glen beat me by that ammount of time was that ammount of time he tryed that much harder than me if that makes sence?


Our rules are not going to change a thing, I can say right now hoping Shaun can confirm this,
That a bike he races out here in NZ is far different from a bike he racesin the TT etc yet he is still very competive over there

A NZ rider is as competive as any other rider in the world

[Mom]

he tryed that much harder than me if that makes sence?

A NZ rider is as competive as any other rider in the world

Makes perfect sense. I reckon you are dead right too.

As someone said to me this week, I am not sure I can teach raw, natural talent, but I will try.

I guess guts and determination go hand in hand with that too.

[Shaun]

That seems silly though. Surely it would be sensible to align NZ with the rest of the world? We are not unknown for producing world class, championship winning riders afterall. So, the question begs to be asked, what/who is driving these rule changes, and for what purpose?


I see your point, but we are a nation of 4 mill, 1/4 of them are asian imports and Islanders, another 1/4 are children. and another are women, so where does the Interest and ROI for any potentuall sponsors come from to pay for these old class " MALE" world championship contenders, exscuse my break down of our nation, but it is real.

Go back 20 years when the rider callibre you talk of exsisted, money was flowing more freely, and the people that held the money then, were true Kiwi people, Not pretend wanta bees like now, hiding behind a false world of I am the good guy with high morals, farmers were subsidised and spent more at there local bike shops, giving those shops more money/power, to support riders.

I am lucky enough to be 46 years old now, I have the OLD kiwi upbringing in me still ie, " If you want it, go get another job and work harder" we now have a nation of, it wasn't my Fault, I cant, it,s impossible with our youth, and unfortunately, it leads on to the next stage of the dissaster.

Then we get Importers of motorcycles and aftermarket product importers etc fighting about who is write behind closed doors, and the whole plot of the game we all love, gets screwed, MONEY MONEY MONEY and I am correct and you are wrong stands tall once again.

For some reason unbeknown to me, a lot of people tell me stuff that they really should not, they should be mature responsible people, ( Dam that's funny coming from me with NO beer in me) but realy they are just arse lickers that try to impress with the knoledge they have, and get a false hard on from it.

All and both have there opinions which they are entitled to, but at whose exspense, ( The Racer Riders as they cannot plan nor confirm jack shit to any potentuall sponsors) and where and when does the bullshit stop.

We will all see where the Bull shit starts or stops, when all emails and letters are released upon reguest to the MNZ office, which I have requested now that I have renewed my membership to our organsiation.

NO 37 lives to get his arse kicked;)

[Shaun]

Any e-mails that I sent that may have ''held up'' the process are arguable in that respect. The reality is it took ages to get to a draft format and myself and another bit player in suspension largely concurred about what was ''a bridge too far''with respect to Superstock ( or should I say Supersilly 600 class ). I responded to requests for input and replied extremely quickly, without exception. As in all fairness so did the other party. Indeed I then found a major flaw in the F3 rules which was an unfortunate paste and copy, but nothing contentious at all to any parties.
The current holdup as I best understand it is almost totally down to one manufacturer who has had very little input into this sport over the years and has made a totally disproportionate noise at ''five minutes to midnight''. If anyone can enlighten all of us otherwise then Id be all ears.
Id love all of my correspondence and replies to be made public as I have absolutely nothing at all to cover up, the sad fact is Id be belying other parties trusts. If all and I mean ALL correspondence was released there would be a handful of people in high places and some industry bit players with major egg on their face, given condescending and patronising remarks, they know who they are .
The reality is the major distributors have had an interest in what transpires but 3 of them have not been trying to manipulate the process at all. Interesting to note that the people within these distributors that get involved in road racing wanted to allow aftermarket suspension in Superstock 600. Glen Williams is right, there isnt / wasnt a lot wrong with last seasons Supersport 600 class. Indeed its interesting also to note that pretty much all the current Supersport 600 riders that I have spoken to have bemoaned the considerable extra cost that will be incurred to try and stay competitive. They also ideally dont want to move to a class where they are not allowed to run aftermarket suspension, its benefits and backup they are so used to. My personal opinion is we dont need to bastardise the sport by having too many classes and the 600 class ( Supersport 600 ) could have been massaged a little by running close to or entirely 600 Superstock motor regs.
As for being similiar to Australia thats in reality a load of bollocks and I have stated my opinion why elsewhere.
Arguably the more recent MX Nationals have suffered similiar issues to the Road Race Nationals. Nationals are run between 2 Islands and at the latter rounds the field can thin out considerably. Predominantly why? Because of the cost of travel, accomodation, time away from work etc. NOT primarily machine cost, MX bikes are a lot cheaper to run, for most.
In both road racing and MX winter club events and regional meetings are all extremely well patronised, and the regs are quite open. I think theres a message in that.

We are 1/4 of the way through September, the situation that prevails is disgraceful.




"QUOTE" ---- Id love all of my correspondence and replies to be made public as I have absolutely nothing at all to cover up

Do it then, you have them all saved on your computor or copies of letters in your office.

Re the 2 bit suspension man, he took a CHAMPIONSHIP of you

Quote

"arguable in that respect" everything you type/say is, but never with back up, kind of like me really, I just mouth off and argue for a laugh a lot, as I have no friends nor private life;)

Superstock "silly class"

If people want to spend there OWN money on racing that class with STD suspension and end up trashing tyres and crashing, that is there fault there choice, why must you go round and round about it, actually a good sales man, only sells/promotes his own product, does not need to trash others


"We are 1/4 of the way through September, the situation that prevails is disgraceful.[/QUOTE"

You/CKT/ Ohlin's, is actually a major part to do with this problem, so why keep pushing the barrow with a flat tyre, the egg will start flowing in the wrong direcrtion given enough time

[Robert Taylor]

"QUOTE" ---- Id love all of my correspondence and replies to be made public as I have absolutely nothing at all to cover up

Do it then, you have them all saved on your computor or copies of letters in your office.

Re the 2 bit suspension man, he took a CHAMPIONSHIP of you

Quote

"arguable in that respect" everything you type/say is, but never with back up, kind of like me really, I just mouth off and argue for a laugh a lot, as I have no friends nor private life;)

Superstock "silly class"

If people want to spend there OWN money on racing that class with STD suspension and end up trashing tyres and crashing, that is there fault there choice, why must you go round and round about it, actually a good sales man, only sells/promotes his own product, does not need to trash others


"We are 1/4 of the way through September, the situation that prevails is disgraceful.[/QUOTE"

You/CKT/ Ohlin's, is actually a major part to do with this problem, so why keep pushing the barrow with a flat tyre, the egg will start flowing in the wrong direcrtion given enough time

You are entitled to your interpretation but I am not going to belie a trust, simple.

Given that you have not seen all the correspondence your statement that I am a major part of the delay has no hard evidence to support it. Like I said if all the correspondence is released I have nothing to be afraid of. Simple and not worth an argument.

[Ozzy27]

Here is my opinion on this whole mess!!

I believe that the proposed rules have been sent to and fro from the importers 3 times with amendments!
I am sorry but Motorcycle Road racing in NZ is a COMPETITOR SPORT!! Anyone who thinks it is a corporate sport of any type is delusional!!
At last years National Championship there were 5 supported Superbikes and 3 Maybe 4 Supported 600's will any on the rule changes make it any different this year No!!!
I thought the reason behind all the changes was to get more bikes on the Grid?
The distributors will support the number of bikes they feel is of benefit to them and no more no less!! Is this going to increase numbers??? I think not and until the organising body starts to base rules around the average NZ racer nothing will change!
I put large amounts of time and money into this sport and it still seems that unless you are part of the old boy’s network you views are not as important!
Can anyone please tell me how the road race commission was formed? What process was followed to select the people that were on it? No one has been able to inform me of this and I also can’t see how this fit in with the MNZ constitution that states we should have elected a commissioner at the conference?
The Next part is we should be talking about rules for the 2011/2012 seasons not the up coming one! If the proposed rules for 600 supersports go through it is going to be very difficult to get engines built for 2 reasons. 1) Time available to build and develop 2) parts availability Yamaha only take orders for kit parts twice a year with up to a 3 month delivery time! Honda and Suzuki have a similar production schedule if they are out of stock nothing will be here in time.
I must say I am very disillusioned with the state of things here and have very seriously thought about having a bike based in Aussie and just flying over there for race meetings (Not saying everything is perfect over there either).

My Question is when are we as the people who are the sport in NZ (riders, enthusiasts and Supporters) Going to come up with a group that can put our views together and let the governing body know what we want? I know it has been tried a few times but to me here is the perfect time to get a Riders/ Teams association formed as was mooted by Shaun a few years ago. So we get a say on things not just a bunch of corporates who will only ever have the own interests in mind when making OUR rules!
:crazy::wacko:

[Shaun]

Here is my opinion on this whole mess!!

I believe that the proposed rules have been sent to and fro from the importers 3 times with amendments!
I am sorry but Motorcycle Road racing in NZ is a COMPETITOR SPORT!! Anyone who thinks it is a corporate sport of any type is delusional!!
At last years National Championship there were 5 supported Superbikes and 3 Maybe 4 Supported 600's will any on the rule changes make it any different this year No!!!
I thought the reason behind all the changes was to get more bikes on the Grid?
The distributors will support the number of bikes they feel is of benefit to them and no more no less!! Is this going to increase numbers??? I think not and until the organising body starts to base rules around the average NZ racer nothing will change!
I put large amounts of time and money into this sport and it still seems that unless you are part of the old boy’s network you views are not as important!
Can anyone please tell me how the road race commission was formed? What process was followed to select the people that were on it? No one has been able to inform me of this and I also can’t see how this fit in with the MNZ constitution that states we should have elected a commissioner at the conference?
The Next part is we should be talking about rules for the 2011/2012 seasons not the up coming one! If the proposed rules for 600 supersports go through it is going to be very difficult to get engines built for 2 reasons. 1) Time available to build and develop 2) parts availability Yamaha only take orders for kit parts twice a year with up to a 3 month delivery time! Honda and Suzuki have a similar production schedule if they are out of stock nothing will be here in time.
I must say I am very disillusioned with the state of things here and have very seriously thought about having a bike based in Aussie and just flying over there for race meetings (Not saying everything is perfect over there either).

My Question is when are we as the people who are the sport in NZ (riders, enthusiasts and Supporters) Going to come up with a group that can put our views together and let the governing body know what we want? I know it has been tried a few times but to me here is the perfect time to get a Riders/ Teams association formed as was mooted by Shaun a few years ago. So we get a say on things not just a bunch of corporates who will only ever have the own interests in mind when making OUR rules!
:crazy::wacko:

Well put fello old boy:yes:

[Shaun]

You are entitled to your interpretation but I am not going to belie a trust, simple.

Given that you have not seen all the correspondence your statement that I am a major part of the delay has no hard evidence to support it. Like I said if all the correspondence is released I have nothing to be afraid of. Simple and not worth an argument.


Not seen any hard evidence NO, you are correct. But either you are LYING or I am Lying Simple

How much did you tell me a certain rider was paid last year?

How much did you tell me a certain rider owed you and others?

Quite correct Robert, not worth the argument!

Had any trouble with any components lately that YOU fitted, NOT me?

I do so love having the old Shaun back and on the rev limiter again:yes:

PS, got to go bed now and masti, I love myself so much

[Kickaha]

My Question is when are we as the people who are the sport in NZ (riders, enthusiasts and Supporters) Going to come up with a group that can put our views together and let the governing body know what we want? I know it has been tried a few times but to me here is the perfect time to get a Riders/ Teams association formed as was mooted by Shaun a few years ago. So we get a say on things not just a bunch of corporates who will only ever have the own interests in mind when making OUR rules!
:crazy::wacko:

The NZSRA did exactly that for it's members only to have MNZ ignore them and pretty much destroy the class at last years Nationals

The Superbike and 600 riders might have more luck if they could get together as a united group but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting

[Robert Taylor]

Here is my opinion on this whole mess!!

I believe that the proposed rules have been sent to and fro from the importers 3 times with amendments!
I am sorry but Motorcycle Road racing in NZ is a COMPETITOR SPORT!! Anyone who thinks it is a corporate sport of any type is delusional!!
At last years National Championship there were 5 supported Superbikes and 3 Maybe 4 Supported 600's will any on the rule changes make it any different this year No!!!
I thought the reason behind all the changes was to get more bikes on the Grid?
The distributors will support the number of bikes they feel is of benefit to them and no more no less!! Is this going to increase numbers??? I think not and until the organising body starts to base rules around the average NZ racer nothing will change!
I put large amounts of time and money into this sport and it still seems that unless you are part of the old boy’s network you views are not as important!
Can anyone please tell me how the road race commission was formed? What process was followed to select the people that were on it? No one has been able to inform me of this and I also can’t see how this fit in with the MNZ constitution that states we should have elected a commissioner at the conference?
The Next part is we should be talking about rules for the 2011/2012 seasons not the up coming one! If the proposed rules for 600 supersports go through it is going to be very difficult to get engines built for 2 reasons. 1) Time available to build and develop 2) parts availability Yamaha only take orders for kit parts twice a year with up to a 3 month delivery time! Honda and Suzuki have a similar production schedule if they are out of stock nothing will be here in time.
I must say I am very disillusioned with the state of things here and have very seriously thought about having a bike based in Aussie and just flying over there for race meetings (Not saying everything is perfect over there either).

My Question is when are we as the people who are the sport in NZ (riders, enthusiasts and Supporters) Going to come up with a group that can put our views together and let the governing body know what we want? I know it has been tried a few times but to me here is the perfect time to get a Riders/ Teams association formed as was mooted by Shaun a few years ago. So we get a say on things not just a bunch of corporates who will only ever have the own interests in mind when making OUR rules!
:crazy::wacko:

Some very valid points Chris but the involved distributors are not the big bad ogres ( spelling?) that many people like to think. When there is more money around and the distributors are ''distributing'' their rides, bikes and funded support there are plenty of people with their hands out! If it werent for primarily Suzuki NZs involvement over the years and intermittent involvement from Yamaha and Honda the sport overall would be in a very sorry state.
I happen to know that the ''corporates'' have had very little influence on recent decisions that have been made. They can just as easily pack up and do nothing ( which would be a sad day for all ) or back more enlightened series such as the Tri Series and street races.
You are abundantly correct that the time available to build bikes and try and procure parts only produced within limited timeframes and numbers is at a critically late stage.

[Robert Taylor]

Not seen any hard evidence NO, you are correct. But either you are LYING or I am Lying Simple

How much did you tell me a certain rider was paid last year?

How much did you tell me a certain rider owed you and others?

Quite correct Robert, not worth the argument!

Had any trouble with any components lately that YOU fitted, NOT me?

I do so love having the old Shaun back and on the rev limiter again:yes:

PS, got to go bed now and masti, I love myself so much

With the greatest respect Shaun you are with your latest mindset doing yourself no good at all, and that is for all and one to view. Im tired of it as are so many others and frankly its in the irrelevant basket.

[Shaun]

With the greatest respect Shaun you are with your latest mindset doing yourself no good at all, and that is for all and one to view. Im tired of it as are so many others and frankly its in the irrelevant basket.



The truth is never irrelevant Robert, and you and most people that know me, know I speak the truth, nothing more, nothing less

To Quote you again

" A 2 bit suspension tuner"

And comment from you like the above, is your normall mind set DR, which is and has been your mind set for many years, and with respect, many are very tired of that also mate.

Did you send the same email to Tom as you did to Kerry D about me a few weeks back?

Like or dislike my mind set Buddy, It is my mind, and it does what I tell it to, and it now has a job to finish! see you about

[Robert Taylor]

The truth is never irrelevant Robert, and you and most people that know me, know I speak the truth, nothing more, nothing less

To Quote you again

" A 2 bit suspension tuner"

And comment from you like the above, is your normall mind set DR, which is and has been your mind set for many years, and with respect, many are very tired of that also mate.

Did you send the same email to Tom as you did to Kerry D about me a few weeks back?

Like or dislike my mind set Buddy, It is my mind, and it does what I tell it to, and it now has a job to finish! see you about

''Another bit player'' is actually what I said ( re read carefully ), nothing derogatory in that comapred to ''2 bit player'' which would be derogatory. Im a ''bit player'' in this game ( albeit a big bit ) as are you. As is Blair Selfe when he is doing suspension for his brother. As is Davy Cole when he uses my trailer to revalve or respring a shock. And so on. Embellishing a statement to change its context to try and discredit doesnt wash and its seen for what it is.

I have sent no such e-mails nor would I waste my time doing so and ''speaking the truth'' is also about getting facts straight.

With respect to the incessant MNZ delays no-one you or me is ''lying'', thats a pretty strong assertion. Your supposition is merely incorrect.

[Shaun]

''Another bit player'' is actually what I said ( re read carefully ), nothing derogatory in that comapred to ''2 bit player'' which would be derogatory. Im a ''bit player'' in this game ( albeit a big bit ) as are you. As is Blair Selfe when he is doing suspension for his brother. As is Davy Cole when he uses my trailer to revalve or respring a shock. And so on. Embellishing a statement to change its context to try and discredit doesnt wash and its seen for what it is.

I have sent no such e-mails nor would I waste my time doing so and ''speaking the truth'' is also about getting facts straight.

With respect to the incessant MNZ delays no-one you or me is ''lying'', thats a pretty strong assertion. Your supposition is merely incorrect.


Thanks for your wonderfull enlightenment of how to use the Englisg language sysyem accurately Rob

[Quasievil]

Damn where is the popcorn icon when you need one

[Shaun]

Damn where is the popcorn icon when you need one


sorry, I ate it

[White trash]

The truth is never irrelevant Robert, and you and most people that know me, know I speak the truth, nothing more, nothing less

To Quote you again

" A 2 bit suspension tuner"

And comment from you like the above, is your normall mind set DR, which is and has been your mind set for many years, and with respect, many are very tired of that also mate.

Did you send the same email to Tom as you did to Kerry D about me a few weeks back?

Like or dislike my mind set Buddy, It is my mind, and it does what I tell it to, and it now has a job to finish! see you about


''Another bit player'' is actually what I said ( re read carefully ), nothing derogatory in that comapred to ''2 bit player'' which would be derogatory. Im a ''bit player'' in this game ( albeit a big bit ) as are you. As is Blair Selfe when he is doing suspension for his brother. As is Davy Cole when he uses my trailer to revalve or respring a shock. And so on. Embellishing a statement to change its context to try and discredit doesnt wash and its seen for what it is.

I have sent no such e-mails nor would I waste my time doing so and ''speaking the truth'' is also about getting facts straight.

With respect to the incessant MNZ delays no-one you or me is ''lying'', thats a pretty strong assertion. Your supposition is merely incorrect.

Guys, I consider you both friends of mine and would like to remain such so I just wanna point a couple of things out.

Shaun, I know you're in this for the good of moving forward and getting these rules sorted asap but with all due respect I think some of the accusations being made are best made between you and those concerned, behind closed doors. I don't think it's doing your crusade any favours mate.

Robert, pretty sure I've explained before the concept of arguing online as similar to the special olympics.

[Shaun]

Guys, I consider you both friends of mine and would like to remain such so I just wanna point a couple of things out.

Shaun, I know you're in this for the good of moving forward and getting these rules sorted asap but with all due respect I think some of the accusations being made are best made between you and those concerned, behind closed doors. I don't think it's doing your crusade any favours mate.

Robert, pretty sure I've explained before the concept of arguing online as similar to the special olympics.


Thanks Dad

[Quasievil]

Guys, I consider you both friends of mine and would like to remain such so I just wanna point a couple of things out.

Shaun, I know you're in this for the good of moving forward and getting these rules sorted asap but with all due respect I think some of the accusations being made are best made between you and those concerned, behind closed doors. I don't think it's doing your crusade any favours mate.

Robert, pretty sure I've explained before the concept of arguing online as similar to the special olympics.

I wouldnt listen to a homo with team Manscape under his name.
:shifty:

[White trash]

I wouldnt listen to a homo with team Manscape under his name.
:shifty:

Neither would I. Oh....yeah......

Hey PM me with what I owe ya for that WBP racing suit that never got used mate. Ta.

[gixerracer]

Not seen any hard evidence NO, you are correct. But either you are LYING or I am Lying Simple

How much did you tell me a certain rider was paid last year?

How much did you tell me a certain rider owed you and others?

Quite correct Robert, not worth the argument!

Had any trouble with any components lately that YOU fitted, NOT me?

I do so love having the old Shaun back and on the rev limiter again:yes:

PS, got to go bed now and masti, I love myself so much

Shaun please explain this quote below from you Im having trouble working it out:innocent:

This will be my last post on here, any one wants me, pick up ya phone or email me

[snapoff]

Shaun please explain this quote below from you Im having trouble working it out:innocent:

This will be my last post on here, any one wants me, pick up ya phone or email me

I think the CD in his head is set on random or its just skipping again.:whocares:

[Kickaha]

Shaun please explain this quote below from you Im having trouble working it out:innocent:


This will be my last post on here, any one wants me, pick up ya phone or email me

I already asked him that here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/127802-Make-your-racing-track-days-cheaper?p=1129852418#post1129852418), you're even slower on here than you are on the track :bleh:

[Shaun]

I already asked him that here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/127802-Make-your-racing-track-days-cheaper?p=1129852418#post1129852418), you're even slower on here than you are on the track :bleh:


I simply love you all to much, and just feel the need to talk shit here instaed of to my family

I think its realy because I always wanted to be a politician or a reporter or some thing like that, that justs talks trash all the time

[gixerracer]

I think the CD in his head is set on random or its just skipping again.:whocares:

Well Mr wackoff you are showing us your age with this CD stuff you talk of it would most likely be an old 45 with a big screw driver scratch in it that runs shaun me thinks

[Kickaha]

it would most likely be an old 45 with a big screw driver scratch in it that runs shaun me thinks


I'm picking a gramaphone run off a wheel driven by hamsters

[Shaun]

Well Mr wackoff you are showing us your age with this CD stuff you talk of it would most likely be an old 45 with a big screw driver scratch in it that runs shaun me thinks


haha Yep, skips tracks but BASE is always full on

[Shaun]

I'm picking a gramaphone run off a wheel driven by hamsters


nah mate, ATE the hampsters a couple of years when I had no money left

[Shaun]

I think the CD in his head is set on random or its just skipping again.:whocares:

mmm 33 posts with all of them being positive ones:shit: another No name hero upon us again, hey, you fogot to mention the ballanced cranks and shot peened conrods also

[Ivan]

haha Yep, skips tracks but BASE is always full on

Talk to William he might be able to lend you his Sub and Amp out his car to get the Doof Doofs going at the race track, Boy Racer Shaun

[Shaun]

Talk to William he might be able to lend you his Sub and Amp out his car to get the Doof Doofs going at the race track, Boy Racer Shaun


My Woof Woof is the problem I think mate, to much of it some times, but hey, why I should really be concerned about it:Punk: Black and White are my choice of colours

[scracha]

Shaun please explain this quote below from you Im having trouble working it out:innocent:

This will be my last post on here, any one wants me, pick up ya phone or email me

Obviously that was one of the other Shauns, stupid!218340218341218342218343

[Kiwi Graham]

Old photos, here's a recent one;
218347

[Shaun]

Like tham that much guys, i laughed that hard then shat myself pircks

[wharfy]

Like tham that much guys, i laughed that hard then shat myself pircks

Yeah, I get that too sometimes - another sign of old age :shit:


To quote Billy Connelly - "never trust a fart [if your] over fifty"