Gear safety message

[Quasievil]

I'm very concerned so decided to give you a heads up especially for newbies

Sadly many TM sellers are advertising their jackets as having a back protector fitted when infact it is not, it is a piece of foam, this foam will offer you the same protection as a cheese sandwich (but wont taste as good) this piece of foam is a piece of foam there is not testing or certification to back up the important claim of back protection. So be aware of this.

Some Back protectors are installed in higher end Jackets, and I know of a few that do have these inserted, I will make the comment however that ideally you need your back Armour to cover off your coccyx, a jacket installed unit is generally to short to do this due to the jacket length.

You can buy a proper back protector from many sources, Astars, Dianese, Teknic do them as do many other brands.

Now Ive got that of my chest you can all go one about me bagging other peoples products :yes: I dont care, Im hoping I have saved someone from a wheelchair

peace out !

[Taz]

Stop bagging other peoples products :lol:

[phill-k]

As you are obviously a responsible manufacturer and supplier of safety clothing perhaps you should also report said traders to both Trade-Me as well as Consumer Affairs.

Then come back here and report in, this would demonstrate your sincerity :yes:

[Quasievil]

As you are obviously a responsible manufacturer and supplier of safety clothing perhaps you should also report said traders to both Trade-Me as well as Consumer Affairs.

Then come back here and report in, this would demonstrate your sincerity :yes:

I can do that yes.

Im not here to promote anything I do, this is a genuine concern, not a advert.

Ive got two mates in wheelchairs as it is and Im not liking this B.S

[cs363]

On this subject which Quasi has rightly raised (dodgy safety gear is not a funny subject in my book) if you're going to shell out for a back protector, ensure that it carries a minimum of CE level 1 approval (the really good ones are level 2 approved).
Some back protectors look the part but due to poor materials and construction offer little more protection than the aforementioned foam. (Even with the foam there are differences, generally higher end manufacturers will use a high density PE foam, which does at least absorb/spread some impact (but are still largely ineffectual in a real get off) whilst the TM cheapies use normal foam rubber)
In fact I've seen some unapproved "back protectors" that would likely cause injuries in a crash!

For some more info on CE certifications and a warning on fake CE labelling (yes...as seen on TradeMe) have a look at this: http://skinscafe.com/ceLabels.html

[Virago]

...Im not here to promote anything I do, this is a genuine concern, not a advert.

Ive got two mates in wheelchairs as it is and Im not liking this B.S

Wow. Are those two mates in wheelchairs as the direct result of using inferior back-protectors?

[SPman]

Wow. Are those two mates in wheelchairs as the direct result of using inferior back-protectors?
No back protectors, perhaps?

[Quasievil]

Wow. Are those two mates in wheelchairs as the direct result of using inferior back-protectors?

No Actually, it was the point of I dont want to see any more..........so sue me

[Milts]

Not that I have any experience, but I'm with Quasievil on this. My jacket is a cheapo from Trademe, and it did indeed come with a piece of foam in the back advertised as back protection. I always thought would be better than nothing if I ended up flying and then landing on my back, but in reality it is probably close to useless. I've since pulled it out and looking at it I can't see how it would do any real good apart from prevent bruising in the lowest of speed collisions.

I've dropped one of these in instead:
http://motomail.co.nz/eStore/Style/RVARBKTP2.aspx

A fairly cheap way to upgrade (I think I got mine from motorrad for 40 or 50$). Obviously nowhere near the coverage of a strap on back protector, but for commuting I figure it's better than nothing - even if I owned a strap on back protector I doubt I'd put it on for the four or five minute ride to Uni every day.
Quasi, I'm really curuious to see what your opinion is of the substitute I posted a link to above.

And regardless of what people think of Quasi's rants on safety and his so called 'constant bagging of the competition' (which always seems to genuinly have rider safety at the centre...), this is a very real safety issue and I think it's good he's bringing it to people's attention. It'd be interesting to see the opinion of people who've crashed with and without back protectors - I remember Winston001 started a thread about them after an accident. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/109420-Armour-Spine-and-body) Now that my father's getting back into riding, he's taking a good look at them. And this coming from someone who last rode in the days where "good protective gear" was jeans, work boots, a thick jacket (leather on a good day) and an open face helmet. I suspect we'll have to look at them for his birthday...

[Quasievil]

I've dropped one of these in instead:
http://motomail.co.nz/eStore/Style/RVARBKTP2.aspx


Quasi, I'm really curuious to see what your opinion is of the substitute I posted a link to above.


Hi these are tested to this standard, so you have a level one back protector which is great to have in a Jacket,

tested against the European standard EN1621-2 the transmitted force is 16kN making this a Level 1 back protector.

Ideally for any track work you should have your coccyx covered of, well achieved by a Contour or a KNOX Aegis race.

Cheers for the rep, nice stuff !!

[trumpy]

I too am with Quasi on this.
Firstly,having been dumped rather unceremoniously on my back a couple of years ago (and at my age "dump" is the appropriate word....no sliding involved!) I am sure that my back protector had a lot to do with me getting away with only a partial break in my right scapula.
Secondly, as part of my business I sell high end light and ultra lightweight wheelchairs and as such a number of my customers are the result of motorcycle accidents. The one commonality with all my clients (with the exception of only two) is their stunning lack of protective gear at the time of their accident.
No, this is not a scientific study so please don't ask for "stats" and as their clinical information is private I cannot supply any more detail other than what I have stated. Draw your own conclusions as I have drawn mine.

[DEATH_INC.]

Good on ya for bringing this to peoples attention. :niceone:
For those who don't actually know Quasi, he's a genuine bloke with genuine concerns, especially when it comes to this stuff. :yes:

[cs363]

While we're on the subject of protection, something that is probably overlooked by many is chest protection - many motorcyclists get severe and often fatal injuries from chest impacts, not surprising when you consider how vulnerable many of our vital organs are to a frontal impact.
There are several good brands of chest protection on the market, designed to either fit into existing pockets in jackets & suits or be worn under leathers.
Again, look for the CE approval and where possible go for the highest spec (level 2) if available.
Safe riding folks :)

[Marmoot]

Sadly many TM sellers are advertising their jackets as having a back protector fitted when infact it is not, it is a piece of foam, this foam will offer you the same protection as a cheese sandwich (but wont taste as good) this piece of foam is a piece of foam there is not testing or certification to back up the important claim of back protection. So be aware of this.

While I agree on your point with non-certifiable/non-certified "bogus back protectors", I think you should clarify that the "foam" you were referring to was only the ones not suitable for back protection, and that there are foam back protectors (from certain manufacturers) that are suitably used and works.

As a proof, I would like to nominate my AGV Sport (one of the reputable brand as we know it) leather suit with double-density foam back protector, elbow protectors and shoulder protectors which have been crash-tested multiple times (on road as well as high speed track offs) without fail.

Overall, though, good point Quasi. Safer communities together.

[phill-k]

All very good gentlemen, however when suggesting that there are dodgy products on Trade Me or elsewhere, this is a serious issue as it applies to safety gear especially as newer riders may not have the knowledge to judge for themselves.

The statement has no foundation nor does it have any use as the dodgy suppliers are not named, thus for those who can not gauge the safety or quality it is pointless. This is the reason why I suggested the author of this thread if he really is concerned should firstly approach Trade-Me as they will on evidence take down the auctions and may also ban the trader and secondly as this is supposedly an issue of safety take the evidence to consumer affairs and request they look into it as well. Otherwise the information is pure scaremongering and a part of the on going crap between the various second tier suppliers of riding gear as we have seen before.

[Quasievil]

As a proof, I would like to nominate my AGV Sport (one of the reputable brand as we know it) leather suit with double-density foam back protector, elbow protectors and shoulder protectors which have been crash-tested multiple times (on road as well as high speed track offs) without fail.


Just curious to know which model do you have, AGV Sport note in most product descriptions CE armour shoulders Elbows and Knees then in the next sentence usually refer to the dual density foam back pad as just that, with no reference to certifications.

[Str8 Jacket]

The statement has no foundation nor does it have any use as the dodgy suppliers are not named, thus for those who can not gauge the safety or quality it is pointless.

Trade-Me will on evidence take down the auctions and may also ban the trader and secondly as this is supposedly an issue of safety take the evidence to consumer affairs and request they look into it as well.

Otherwise the information is pure scaremongering and a part of the on going crap between the various second tier suppliers of riding gear as we have seen before
.

Exactly!!! In other words, put your money where your mouth is.

[Biggles08]

Exactly!!! In other words, put your money where your mouth is.
So he can once again get 'bagged' for dissing other peoples products!?

I think this is a very valid point and in fact I would not be walking, or possibly even alive had I not been wearing a back protector back in November 2007.

I had a bad crash and ended up under the rear of a car. I was wearing a Sidi Back Protector at the time and I'm sure this is the only reason I am still walking. along with many other breaks and injury's, I busted my back in two places, T7 and T9 in the crash but both breaks were stable...had I not had a protector on I'm sure at the best I would be permanently in a chair.

I'm very passionate about this issue for these reasons and I also think Quasi is right in his "one man crusade" to defend the quality of good motorcycle protection.

[Quasievil]

Exactly!!! In other words, put your money where your mouth is.

So much Anger ........as usual............ everytime .........all the time.........sheeesh

[Scouse]

So much Anger ........as usual............ everytime .........all the time.........sheeeshPot...........Kettle.........B lack?......... sheeesh

[phill-k]

So much Anger ........as usual............ everytime .........all the time.........sheeesh

Actually mate its a fair call, I mean if I was to say you were gay on here and did so without posting the photos to prove it how would anyone know that it was just a bloke who was just pissed with you. The photos are the proof to back my allegations.

you have levelled some serious allegations about other peoples products, I support that however in making those allegations you need to demonstrate proof, rather than tarring all the Trade Me suppliers with the same brush. After all if you have the evidence you can hardly be accused of liable.

[Usarka]

Chill out kids.

Here's the same message reworded:

Be careful when buying gear because a lot of stuff is sold as having a back protector when it's actually just a piece of foam which doesn't do shit.

No need to name and shame. Have a nice day.

[Biggles08]

Actually mate its a fair call, I mean if I was to say you were gay on here and did so without posting the photos to prove it how would anyone know that it was just a bloke who was just pissed with you. The photos are the proof to back my allegations.

you have levelled some serious allegations about other peoples products, I support that however in making those allegations you need to demonstrate proof, rather than tarring all the Trade Me suppliers with the same brush. After all if you have the evidence you can hardly be accused of liable.
He's damned if he does (Oh there goes Quasi ranting about other peoples products again) and he's damned if he does (oh there goes Quasi with no proof to back up his claims).

I suggest you take heed of his message phill-k rather than questioning his intent. Be aware that some people do indeed call a piece of foam a back protector when in fact its a piece of foam....thats all :yes:

[Biggles08]

Chill out kids.

Here's the same message reworded:

Be careful when buying gear because a lot of stuff is sold as having a back protector when it's actually just a piece of foam which doesn't do shit.

No need to name and shame. Have a nice day.

well articulated Usarka :yes:

[Quasievil]

Chill out kids.

Here's the same message reworded:

Be careful when buying gear because a lot of stuff is sold as having a back protector when it's actually just a piece of foam which doesn't do shit.

No need to name and shame. Have a nice day.

Thanks, you have a nice day to mate


He's damned if he does (Oh there goes Quasi ranting about other peoples products again) and he's damned if he does (oh there goes Quasi with no proof to back up his claims).


I think people just dont like me :-(

[onearmedbandit]

I think people just dont like me :-(


What??? After all this time and effort we've all put in, and you only just 'think' you're not liked. God, what does it take to get through to some people.

[Quasievil]

Just to back it up a tad Here are the CE standards

EN 1621-1
Protection against mechanical impact on motorcyclists
Separate or combined protectors for shoulder, elbow, hips and knees – the most endangered parts of the body. Except for the test criteria, described below, the standard also describes the shape and how large the protected area should be.

Test method: Every protector is hit with a steel object nine times in various places, corresponding to a force of 50 J. The transferred force from the nine hits to the other side may, on average, not exceed 35 kN. And no single impact may exceed 50 kN. Every protector must be approved through these tests in order to have its CE-label.

EN 1621-2
Back protector for motorcyclists
The back protector should protect the spine and the soft-tissue areas next to the spine against blows and impacts. These tests simulate falls against pavement stones and corners. To receive approval the protector must also have the proper fit and comfort and cover enough of the back.

Test method: Five places on the protector are hit with a steel object in the form of a paving stone, on at least five places on the protector, with singular extra hits on the known weak points. To qualify for the higher standard (Level 2) the energy of the hits should be 50 J. The average figure of the force transferred to inner side of the protector may not exceed 9 kN. And no singular impact may exceed 12 kN. For „Level 1“ the average figure may not exceed 18 kN and no singular impact 24 kN.

here is some product descriptions from Trademe

* CE Certified protectors shoulders, elbows and back (EN1621-1:1997:-Type A)

FULL REMOVABLE CE APPROVED PROTECTORS AT SHOULDERS,BACK AND
ELBOWS

* CE Certified protectors shoulders, elbows and back

Removable CE Hard Armour in the elbows, shoulders and knees. It also has a CE Duel Density foam back protector and thigh protecors

It has CE-approved full removable armour in back,

3. CE-approved armours in elbows, shoulders, back bone, hips & knees - EASILY REMOVEABLE.

The CE certified armour on the elbows, the shouders and the back.

Foam CE Certified protectors in the Back



And the suspect comments go on and on.

Most of these are from Auctions where the Items will sell under $150, now ask yourself a couple of questions

1/ Do you think that little bit of foam is up to that test (as above)
2/ Will you trust it on your back to provide the required protection in a crash?

The Answer of course is No and No

You will note one trader quotes a certification for a back that doesn't even apply to back protectors.

So the message as noted above is be careful, I can assure you that the majority of these have no CE rated back Armour in them at all.

So my view is to post a thread warning about this safety issue........Im comfortable with this thread and Im not apologizing for trying to look after biker safety, and thats my business:yes:

[Marmoot]

Just curious to know which model do you have, AGV Sport note in most product descriptions CE armour shoulders Elbows and Knees then in the next sentence usually refer to the dual density foam back pad as just that, with no reference to certifications.

Can't remember what model it was. I bought it in 1999. Still holding strong after a few spills and 11 years, though.

[Str8 Jacket]

So much Anger ........as usual............ everytime .........all the time.........sheeesh

I work in Procurement and work with different types of markets going to tender and managing contracts/ categories for services from IT to Facilities to buying BMW's for parliament. I have seen it all and TBH when/if vendors ever indulge in behaviour constatntly bagging the opposition such as what you display on KB I tend to hear alarm bells.

Sorry if my opinion doesn't float your boat. ;)

[MsKABC]

The statement has no foundation nor does it have any use as the dodgy suppliers are not named, thus for those who can not gauge the safety or quality it is pointless. This is the reason why I suggested the author of this thread if he really is concerned should firstly approach Trade-Me as they will on evidence take down the auctions and may also ban the trader and secondly as this is supposedly an issue of safety take the evidence to consumer affairs and request they look into it as well. Otherwise the information is pure scaremongering and a part of the on going crap between the various second tier suppliers of riding gear as we have seen before.

Bollocks.

Do your homework, ask questions of the seller, and ask to see pictures of the so-called back protectors. If you don't get appropriate answers, move on. :done:

If Quasi named names, he would most definitely then be accused of bagging the competition. Sounds to me like you are just setting a trap for him.

[Quasievil]

I work in Procurement and work with different types of markets going to tender and managing contracts/ categories for services from IT to Facilities to buying BMW's for parliament. I have seen it all and TBH when/if vendors ever indulge in such behaviour I tend to hear alarm bells.

Sorry if my opinion doesn't float your boat. ;)

Such Behavior ?

Either you cant read or your agenda surfaces again, perhaps you need to stick to your tenders and leave those that know about what they are talking about to highlight safety concerns that are ACTUALLY REAL

unbelievable

[Gremlin]

Going back to chest protection (because I think most hopefully know the merits of back protectors by now) I think its equally important as back protection.

Not only does it come in handy when you're about to hit Mr Road against your will (I landed on my chest, and only felt light bruising, after a low side, dropping from almost a metre above ground), but it also protects against suicidal wildlife.

Ask gijoe. We were in the South Island, going along a straight around 110kph. Bird comes in from front right, impacting so hard with my chest I was pushed back in my seat a bit, felt a thud, and gijoe's account was that it exploded on impact. Not a single bit of pain, bruising etc. Been happy with my Knox back and chest protection several times over, so much so, that all future gear is bought to take the armour into account, size wise.

Now I'll sit back and wait a few months/years until people start talking about CE approved garments, ie, jacket and trousers, not just the armour. My jacket is here, waiting for the pants... :love:

[Quasievil]

Was Talking to Steve (cant think of his KB name) at Motott the other week, he reckons he got hit by a Peasant, it damn near killed him, they Doctor said a couple of inches to the left that would have been it.
So yes to the chest protection.

[schrodingers cat]

I call bullshit. It you really care about safety you'd be selling these

218201

[Quasievil]

I call bullshit. It you really care about safety you'd be selling these

218201

LOL isnt that Carver ?

[Gremlin]

I call bullshit. It you really care about safety you'd be selling these
nonsense, what kinda of abrasion resistance would it offer? :blink:

If he really cared, he would sell Rukka... oh wait... he does :yes:

[phill-k]

Bollocks.

Do your homework, ask questions of the seller, and ask to see pictures of the so-called back protectors. If you don't get appropriate answers, move on. :done:

If Quasi named names, he would most definitely then be accused of bagging the competition. Sounds to me like you are just setting a trap for him.

Actually not bollocks I did not come on here and accuse anyone of selling goods not designed for their intended purpose (the law)
If someone has an issue with someone else's commercial practise and wishes to go public on it, they have a responsibility to both the consumer as well as the other trader to actually substantiate their claims, I for one actually believe in due process and fairness, unless evidence of his claims is delivered he should lay complaints with the authorities responsible for breeches of advertising. On here he should at the very least post links to the auctions he refers, quoting as he did in a recent post without actual links is like having toilet paper in a loo but it being out of reach.
It has nothing to do with setting traps, if he names the traders then we can all see the evidence and support him in his endeavours, otherwise it just looks like the same all same all punch up that happens on here from time to time.

[MsKABC]

he reckons he got hit by a Peasant

Calling someone a peasant isn't PC you know Quasi. They should be called "homeless people". :lol:

[schrodingers cat]

nonsense, what kinda of abrasion resistance would it offer? :blink:



Think laterally. Fill it with helium... You need never hit the ground:yes::yes::gob:

[MsKABC]

Actually not bollocks I did not come on here and accuse anyone of selling goods not designed for their intended purpose (the law)
If someone has an issue with someone else's commercial practise and wishes to go public on it, they have a responsibility to both the consumer as well as the other trader to actually substantiate their claims, I for one actually believe in due process and fairness, unless evidence of his claims is delivered he should lay complaints with the authorities responsible for breeches of advertising. On here he should at the very least post links to the auctions he refers, quoting as he did in a recent post without actual links is like having toilet paper in a loo but it being out of reach.
It has nothing to do with setting traps, if he names the traders then we can all see the evidence and support him in his endeavours, otherwise it just looks like the same all same all punch up that happens on here from time to time.

I still think you're talking bollocks. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Quasi hasn't "accused" anyone - an accusation requires a name as far as I'm concerned. It was a friendly warning, basically a "buyer beware".

[Gremlin]

Think laterally. Fill it with helium... You need never hit the ground:yes::yes::gob:
must be dud helium in that fella's suit then... looks like he's pretty firmly fixed to the ground. How would you uh... test its still ok, without, y'know, testing it? :mellow:

[schrodingers cat]

He has a hi tech version with embedded cannisters and a rip cord. It is very clever if a bit french and therefore unreliable and smelly

[phill-k]

I still think you're talking bollocks. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Quasi hasn't "accused" anyone - an accusation requires a name as far as I'm concerned. It was a friendly warning, basically a "buyer beware".

Well you must either have a very poor understanding of English or didn't read his original post.

Oh sorry just re read it myself and you are right, he didn't accuse anyone, he was just trying to denigrate his successful arch rival on trade me who actually offers the same quality of product at better prices, with unsubstantiated pointless drivel, it wasn't a friendly warning as without actual detailed information of the "offenders" how the hell is anyone going to know who he wants you to be aware of.:whocares:

[Quasievil]

Actually not bollocks I did not come on here and accuse anyone of selling goods not designed for their intended purpose

Neither Did I actually, I didnt accuse a single entity, a business or brand.

I did say that there are many Traders on TM selling their Jackets and specifically noting they have Back Protectors, even calling them CE approved, this is not true.

I did this as Im genuinely concerned about it, and the potential for an injury by someone believing they have the protection yet dont.

I havent even promoted anything I may do.

I dont know why people get all in a fuss and specifically accusational towards me, Hell if I said their was a Bad Slip on the Coro loop I sure you wouldnt have a problem with a safety message being posted, is the difference that Im in the motorcycle industry? OMG you mean if I know what im talking about then I definately should say nothing................how does that work in the world??

Do you eat Hell Pizza after they advise the market of smaller Pizzas from Pizza Hut?
Do you Eat Whitakers after the Cadbury Palm controversy
Do you drive a Car which hoists itself higher than the competition by showing the market the other models lackings??

Probably I would guess

as much as I love Bikers the industry and the people in it (mostly) my god there are some precious puppies.

At the end of the day make your own purchase decisions on what you buy, Im sure now you will consider this warning none the less.

p.s thank you for all the positive rep, Im pleased most of KB actually understands my thread

[Quasievil]

he didn't accuse anyone, he was just trying to denigrate his successful arch rival on trade me who actually offers the same quality of product at better prices

Didnt really want this to be about our products, note you raised it but anyway Im
Not sure who you are talking about, we usually dont use TM very often, seen you raised it, this isnt our market.
and regarding spec and price Can you please do a study and find a better Specd brand new jacket on Trademe for $420 (our top spec being the EDGE) when you do let me know so I can up spec it further.

I wait patiently.

[phill-k]

Neither Did I actually, I didnt accuse a single entity, a business or brand.

I did say that there are many Traders on TM selling their Jackets and specifically noting they have Back Protectors, even calling them CE approved, this is not true.

I did this as Im genuinely concerned about it, and the potential for an injury by someone believing they have the protection yet dont.

I havent even promoted anything I may do.

I dont know why people get all in a fuss and specifically accusational towards me, Hell if I said their was a Bad Slip on the Coro loop I sure you wouldnt have a problem with a safety message being posted, is the difference that Im in the motorcycle industry? OMG you mean if I know what im talking about then I definately should say nothing................how does that work in the world??

Do you eat Hell Pizza after they advise the market of smaller Pizzas from Pizza Hut?
Do you Eat Whitakers after the Cadbury Palm controversy
Do you drive a Car which hoists itself higher than the competition by showing the market the other models lackings??

Probably I would guess

as much as I love Bikers the industry and the people in it (mostly) my god there are some precious puppies.

At the end of the day make your own purchase decisions on what you buy, Im sure now you will consider this warning none the less.

p.s thank you for all the positive rep, Im pleased most of KB actually understands my thread

Firstly you did accuse as you stated many traders - how many and who are they?
You do promote what you do as its on the bottom of every post you make.
The examples you quote have all substantiated their facts when making claims about their opposition, by not naming your accused one is unable to actually substantiate your statements.
I don't have an issue with you being concerned, however as you keep expressing your concern do something about it - Contact Trade me and consumer affairs with your evidence. In NZ at least we still hold dear the belief that one can face ones accuser, by not naming the accused you either are afraid or perhaps can't really substantiate your claims - Name on here the traders you say are breaching the fair trading act, then we can all see and avoid.
p.s. I don't give a rats arse about red bling - i like the colour actually.

[phill-k]

Didnt really want this to be about our products, note you raised it but anyway Im
Not sure who you are talking about, we usually dont use TM very often, seen you raised it, this isnt our market.
and regarding spec and price Can you please do a study and find a better Specd brand new jacket on Trademe for $420 (our top spec being the EDGE) when you do let me know so I can up spec it further.

I wait patiently.

I am not questioning the quality of your products, to me at least it is clear that you supply quality product at reasonable prices, why, you have an avid following and I have read many posts about same. However you have in the past entered into heated debate on technical subjects with other suppliers on here.
My point in getting involved in this debate is purely to request you present all the evidence rather than just some, and if you are genuinely concerned to take the necessary action to have these rogue traders shut down for the good of all of us.

[Taz]

Calling someone a peasant isn't PC you know Quasi. They should be called "homeless people". :lol:

Not all peasants are homeless. Just maybe not owning land of their own.

[MsKABC]

Not all peasants are homeless. Just maybe not owning land of their own.

Yeah, I know - I just couldn't think of the term I was looking for at that particular time. Call it "baby brain".

[Quasievil]

if you are genuinely concerned to take the necessary action to have these rogue traders shut down for the good of all of us.

Okay will lodge a complaint tomorrow.:yes:

Dont ya love KB

[Crazy Steve]

Quasi can you size me up for some new gear.....All my current stuff is wrecked..

Crazy Steve.

[Quasievil]

Quasi can you size me up for some new gear.....All my current stuff is wrecked..

Crazy Steve.

Yup but you just tease me lol

[Rogue Rider]

LoL, as far as I can see you didn't slag off or bag anyones product, you simply made an objective and constructive point on a very genuine issue.

I back up what Quasi has said, if you are serious about back protection, and or you do racing, then you do need to get a specialist piece of back support equipment.
From history, most retail places can source them, and some carbon fibre gore-tex products from France and Europe have made their way here.
Quasi sells ome too................................... for a reasonable price too i am sure...... any specials Quasi? for those tempted by the pitch.;););););););););););););)
.
.
.

[Rogue Rider]

Okay will lodge a complaint tomorrow.:yes:

Dont ya love KB

I don't think it will validate, unless you remove 95% of what the shops sell as well. The products being sold are the same as have been sold for years....
Some of the products that are imported to have rated crash protection, others are foam with polycarbonate casing exterior.
Just inspect and check out what you get. I have basic imported brand that I got in myself, and have had some offs and no big deal. In saying that, people still die in car crashes wearing seat belts and helmets too.................

Just remember, everything depends on circumstances, if you race, yes, definately gear up, other wise use your discretion depending on the practical use. Foam is fine in some applications, though I prefer the polycarbonate ones myself.:argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh:: argh::argh::argh:

[puddytat]

:apint::doobey::corn:

[BOMBER]

I don't think it will validate,

Be fun to see

[DMNTD]

So he can once again get 'bagged' for dissing other peoples products!?

I think this is a very valid point and in fact I would not be walking, or possibly even alive had I not been wearing a back protector back in November 2007.

I had a bad crash and ended up under the rear of a car. I was wearing a Sidi Back Protector at the time and I'm sure this is the only reason I am still walking. along with many other breaks and injury's, I busted my back in two places, T7 and T9 in the crash but both breaks were stable...had I not had a protector on I'm sure at the best I would be permanently in a chair.

I'm very passionate about this issue for these reasons and I also think Quasi is right in his "one man crusade" to defend the quality of good motorcycle protection.

How's ya bum bum? :shifty:

[ynot slow]

LoL, as far as I can see you didn't slag off or bag anyones product, you simply made an objective and constructive point on a very genuine issue.

I back up what Quasi has said, if you are serious about back protection, and or you do racing, then you do need to get a specialist piece of back support equipment.
From history, most retail places can source them, and some carbon fibre gore-tex products from France and Europe have made their way here.
Quasi sells ome too................................... for a reasonable price too i am sure...... any specials Quasi? for those tempted by the pitch.;););););););););););););)
.
.
.

My take,Quasi puts a thread on buyer BEWARE,ask questions of seller (of safety standards,quality etc)and if they're not satisfactory replies maybe go elsewhere,be it bike shop or internet sellers.After all it is safety we all want.

And naming is rubbish,rule 1 of sales is never diss the opposition by name,comes across as nit picking,but at same time promote the benefits of your product,with product knowledge,which he has given us,he isn't saying buy mine,not others exclusively.

Similar to me,for years my boss sold exclusively sleepyhead beds,I went to numerous product courses at the sleepyhead factory,and saw first hand opposition comparrible priced beds broken down,seeing other makes being inferior and often more expensive gave me enough knowledge to sell my product against opposition.

So much so when my boss decided to sell other beds due to change in suppliers in his buying group with beds,I left.How could I hold my head and say xyz beds were inferior to sleepyhead,then try to sell xyz brands against sleepyhead,knowing the construction was inferior.This in a town of say 10000 people,and having been with firm for nearly 20yrs.

Yes I have a bit of Quasi gear,mostly samples and other(cheap bastard me,but also canny,good gear cheap) but also have named gear,chillout,alpinestar,gaerne,neo also.Back protector is next,like the idea of inserts and will ask questions on armour etc,and what standards come with it.

[DEATH_INC.]

Okay will lodge a complaint tomorrow.:yes:

Dont ya love KB
You don't have to justify yourself Q, anyone that actually knows ya will know you're legit.
If they don't want to listen leave 'em to it.
BTW, a lot of the chinese 'companies' will attach whatever approval no's you (or they) want to the products they sell without actually testing them....it may not entirely be the sellers fault.

[Eyegasm]

Didnt really want this to be about our products, note you raised it but anyway Im
Not sure who you are talking about, we usually dont use TM very often, seen you raised it, this isnt our market.
and regarding spec and price Can you please do a study and find a better Specd brand new jacket on Trademe for $420 (our top spec being the EDGE) when you do let me know so I can up spec it further.

I wait patiently.

Wow, $420 is a great price. I'd buy one.

Wait I did. Although the Vengeance cost more at the time (Paid $495) + custom fit charge + 10 week wait...

Just can't wait for it to arrive... Getting antsy... Summer is almost here...

But I guess... I'll just wait patiently.

Eyegasm

[pritch]

Otherwise the information is pure scaremongering and a part of the on going crap between the various second tier suppliers of riding gear as we have seen before.

Not necessarily, it could be a worthwhile discussion if it raises awareness.

Im not sure if this discussion relates to what might be called "second tier". I have a Spidi textile jacket which has a foam insert in the back. The armour in the shoulders and elbows is more substantial than what's in the back, but I am aware of the shortcomings of the back armour.

I have a Spidi leather jacket with optional back protector. This is more robust, but is still nowhere near as good as a "strap on" back protector.

None of the foregoing should be construed as negative criticism, I have other expensive gear that appears to offer less crash protection, although better weather protection.

As always, security is a trade-off against convenience. We could all get around looking like Bibendum (the "Michelin man") but that wouldn't be very convenient and certainly not cool...

Anyhoo I'm too old to worry about being cool :yawn:

[saltydog]

Wow. Are those two mates in wheelchairs as the direct result of using inferior back-protectors?

What a cheeky cunt. I'm with Quasi. All he's trying to do is stop some new-bie from buying a "foam" back protector thinking that it will actually perform like a real B.P.

[Quasievil]

What a cheeky cunt. I'm with Quasi. All he's trying to do is stop some new-bie from buying a "foam" back protector thinking that it will actually perform like a real B.P.

Basically, but we are on KB and there are long term plonkers that like the bagging of anyone with a profile................its a kiwi thing

[pc220]

Usually I have doubted the motives of Quasi in these threads, but this time even I can see it for what it is. A genuine concern for the safety of others. It has certainly made me take a closer look at that piece of foam in the back of my jacket.

Thank you Quasi for the warning.

[FROSTY]

A bit of a history lesson from Ye awd days. Way back when back protectors were unheard of for racers let alone road riders. Then someone noticed that competition HORSE riders were starting to wear the dual density foam back protectors.
We started to use these before it became a legal requirement to wear em for racing.
So technically they are "back protectors".
I'd argue the toss with Quasi on the "they are useless" front because they do offer some protection in an impact crash and having er "kissed the tarmac" in a then current set of Scarletti leathers with one of those foam protectors It did make a definite difference.

That all said --technlogy has moved a heck of a long way forwards since the 80's and
The level of body protection available with modern armour is amazing --You'd be a fool not to take advantage of it

[Quasievil]

I'd argue the toss with Quasi on the "they are useless" front because they do offer some protection in an impact crash and having er "kissed the tarmac"

you can but youd be wrong.

The fact you kissed the tarmac is not good but you didnt hurt your back as you clearly didnt impact it hard.........low slide maybe
did a bike crash into your back, did you crash into a curb ?

Back Protectors are NOT made of sleeping Matt foam, and they do require some technology and testing to become a Back Protector.

[FROSTY]

you can but youd be wrong.

The fact you kissed the tarmac is not good but you didnt hurt your back as you clearly didnt impact it hard.........low slide maybe
did a bike crash into your back, did you crash into a curb ?

Back Protectors are NOT made of sleeping Matt foam, and they do require some technology and testing to become a Back Protector.
No you're apsolutely right I only slid over a "ripple" strip (corrogated concrete edge of castrol) on my back then had the bike that caused the crash hit me in my back and run up and punch my lid into the ground. so yea it was a gentle crash by all accounts. Mind you this was 20 years ago when men were men and I was 10 feet tall and bulletproof.
Ive still got the darned leathers round here somewheres complete with tyre mark.

[Quasievil]

No you're apsolutely right I only slid over a "ripple" strip (corrogated concrete edge of castrol) on my back then had the bike that caused the crash hit me in my back and run up and punch my lid into the ground. so yea it was a gentle crash by all accounts. Mind you this was 20 years ago when men were men and I was 10 feet tall and bulletproof.
Ive still got the darned leathers round here somewheres complete with tyre mark.

Okay, so your message then is dont wear back protectors, wear foam and you will be fine because amazingly for you after being hit in the back by a bike youre ok so everyone else will be to?
Good one Frosty

[pc220]

No you're apsolutely right I only slid over a "ripple" strip (corrogated concrete edge of castrol) on my back then had the bike that caused the crash hit me in my back and run up and punch my lid into the ground. so yea it was a gentle crash by all accounts. Mind you this was 20 years ago when men were men and I was 10 feet tall and bulletproof.
Ive still got the darned leathers round here somewheres complete with tyre mark.

So all in all just a bit of an oopps moment ?:msn-wink:

[FROSTY]

Okay, so your message then is dont wear back protectors, wear foam and you will be fine because amazingly for you after being hit in the back by a bike youre ok so everyone else will be to?
Good one Frosty
NOPE--show me anywhere I said that?? YOU are making a sweeping statement that dual density foam in bike gear offers no impact protection.
Do I feel that a propper back protecter is a good idea to be worn YES
Do I feel that dual density foam offers no impact protection NO

[stify]

I was 10 feet tall.


dude...you have never been ten feet tall....5 foot 8 at a pinch...:msn-wink:

[Scouse]

dude...you have never been ten feet tall....5 foot 8 at a pinch...:msn-wink:stifman long time no see

[FROSTY]

Just to be clear here folks in NO way am I advocating not wearing a seperate QUALITY back protector when out for a ride.
Going back in time we used what was available to us. Nowadays there is no excuse.

[stify]

stifman long time no see

for sure...hiding in the bay of plenty these days...might catch ya on a coro run come summer time :yes:

[Scouse]

for sure...hiding in the bay of plenty these days...might catch ya on a coro run come summer time :yes:I fookin hope so

[carver]

224213

LOL isnt that Carver ?


............................

[Owl]

Micro dredge!:facepalm:

[robboh]

Just to echo Frosty here. I remember when they made BPs compulsory, and it was an utter pain for me coz they weren't cheap and I was poor. Ended with a dainese armadillo looking thing which wouldn't bend too far in reverse coz of the plates hitting each other. Can't remember if that was already national req and had only come in at club level racing in manawatu, round '90 or '91.

Any way, I digress. Couple of months later, a mate was swinging on bucket chair at a bucket meeting in central Feilding. He borrowed my new BP as he hadn't gotten one yet. In an collision he was thrown off the chair and wrapped backwards around a power pole above the height of the two haybails in front. BP was screwed, actually broken, and had pulled some of the plates out of the backing. He had a very sore back and a couple of bruises. I'm convinced he wouldn't be walking if it weren't for that back protector.

By the way, at that point the 'gun' armor in leathers was a material similar to sorbathene!! I remember Tony teesdale at xl leathers showing me some and telling me how great it was compared to straight leather :-)

[baptist]

I've dropped one of these in instead:
http://motomail.co.nz/eStore/Style/RVARBKTP2.aspx

A fairly cheap way to upgrade (I think I got mine from motorrad for 40 or 50$). Obviously nowhere near the coverage of a strap on back protector, but for commuting I figure it's better than nothing - even if I owned a strap on back protector I doubt I'd put it on for the four or five minute ride to Uni every day.


<_< me thinks me needs to buy:yes: