Weird stuff. Very weird stuff.

[White trash]

Here's a bit of a queer one for you electrical gurus on here. It's got me fucked, Drew will find the issue but he might have to pull the entire loom to bits to sort it. Someone may have an idea that hasn't occurred to us muppets.

A bike is (electrically) running fine. Everything works except the neutral light on the dash which is of no major concern and the indicator fuse is blown. Engine and fairings are removed from the bike to fix a completely unelectrical problem which takes 18 months, in this time the bike sits (engineless) uncovered in the rain. Bike is repaired and reassembled, indicator fuse is replaced because no indicators is a pain in the arse.

Upon turning the key on, indicator fuse blows instantly. Check indicator wiring for shorts and can't find a damn thing. Finally trace fault back to the temp gauge in the dash (WTF?) so this is removed and isolated from the equation. No more fuse blowing and miraculously, the neutral light now works just fine. (WTFF?) So it's riding time. Everything works great (no tempo gauge) but the bike feels a little out of tune. Hunting a little on very light throttle in top gear and feels a bit woolly on acceleration up to mid revs. Other than that, it's fine.

Now it gets weird. Upon serious load (top gear, 3/4 throttle, mid rev range), the bike gives a complete ignition failure for a nano second (feels like a big miss), blows the indicator fuse, and the dash (rev counter and warning lights) goes dead. However, the "out of tune running" completely disappears. (WTFFF?) This is getting strange. Bear in mind the indicator fuse was previously blown but the dash worked fine with the exception of the neutral light.

So logic tells us, that the dash is the problem and it's all our own fault for leaving it to fill with water in Newlands for 18 months, right?

Well last night we completely unplug the dash, removing all power and replace the fuse. This will be sweet, we're clever bastards we tell ourselves over four Steinlagers. Hmmmmm, riding to work today, "out of tune" is back and upon a big wind up on a private closed road, *miss/backfire*, no indicators. Bike feels mint again though.

We're going to have to strip that fucken loom aren't we……..

[Bald Eagle]

Bike feels mint .... go with hand signals and leave the electro gremlins in the little box. :lol:

[White trash]

Bike feels mint .... go with hand signals and leave the electro gremlins in the little box. :lol:

I'm with you, but it's Drews bike and he doesn't like having shit semi sorted. It also makes it almost impossible to renew the warrant.

[Juzz976]

Bike model and year?

If the temp gauge is Transducer type which gives signal to CDI/ECU then it may be running cold/hot/limp maps for ign/fuel. Did u test the temp sensor?

[White trash]

Bike model and year?

If the temp gauge is Transducer type which gives signal to CDI/ECU then it may be running cold/hot/limp maps for ign/fuel. Did u test the temp sensor?

Aha! A smarter man than us, just as I'd hoped.

It's a mid/late nineties RF900. Being carburetted I wouldn't have thought it would have such gadgetry.

[MSTRS]

Well known for corrosion problems around plugs 2+3. My old GSXR1100 (same basic engine) would cut in and out on number 3. New plug cap fixed it. Didn't pop fuses and shit tho.

[Juzz976]

Aha! A smarter man than us, just as I'd hoped.

It's a mid/late nineties RF900. Being carburetted I wouldn't have thought it would have such gadgetry.

Most likely not, although it may set ignition advance/retard.

will look at wiring diagram if I can find 1 and I'll have an opinion.

[White trash]

Well known for corrosion problems around plugs 2+3. My old GSXR1100 (same basic engine) would cut in and out on number 3. New plug cap fixed it. Didn't pop fuses and shit tho.

Nah. It's nothing like that. When it "misses" it drops all four. It's a complete momentary ignition loss. I'm thinking a CDI wire or perhaps coil wires are bridiging with an indicator wire. But that doesn't explain why the fucking dash now goes dead on the indicator fuse where it never used to. Arrrgghh, I hate electrical shit.

[White trash]

Most likely not, although it may set ignition advance/retard.

will look at wiring diagram if I can find 1 and I'll have an opinion.

Awesome, that'd be very much appreciated because I'm about to tear my receding hairline to bits. :)

[MSTRS]

It's not something like 2 circuits sharing a bad earth?

[Juzz976]

Check wiring associated with oil level sw + lamp, side stand switch, fuel level switch + Lamp.

as you said its on high load it may be oil or fuel level switch operation due to front of bike being raised. Never ridden an RF which is a shame because you can tell what kind of sensors are used, an oil lamp is generally a switch where as a fuel sensor can be complicated.
I noticed the TL had a trickery 1 that flashed intermittantly.

If only you could use my DC clamp ammeter, youd have it sussed pretty quick as you'd see where the fault current is going as it seems to be in a permanent state of fault and when additional load is applyed blowing the fuse. unless the fault current is close to the fuse rating and its slow thermal tripping.

Might have to ask suzuki if they would like me to teach them to draw schematics properly.

[White trash]

Check wiring associated with oil level sw + lamp, side stand switch, fuel level switch + Lamp.

as you said its on high load it may be oil or fuel level switch operation due to front of bike being raised. Never ridden an RF which is a shame because you can tell what kind of sensors are used, an oil lamp is generally a switch where as a fuel sensor can be complicated.
I noticed the TL had a trickery 1 that flashed intermittantly.

If only you could use my DC clamp ammeter, youd have it sussed pretty quick as you'd see where the fault current is going as it seems to be in a permanent state of fault and when additional load is applyed blowing the fuse. unless the fault current is close to the fuse rating and its slow thermal tripping.

Might have to ask suzuki if they would like me to teach them to draw schematics properly.

Cheers dude.

We'll smash a few Steinlagers tonight going over these poits and report back tomorrow with our findings.

Jimmy

[Gremlin]

We'll smash a few Steinlagers tonight going over these poits and report back tomorrow with our findings.
This is probably one of the sources of problems. Hilarious to the observers, but frustrating for the fixers, when pished as newts, they can't figure out the problem :shifty:

[Juzz976]

I'll Have another look at the diagram I got and narrow it down for you. Don't wanna have to pull everything apart, especially when sensors are involved unless you have an electronics or instrumentation degree to know if they working or not..

[White trash]

This is probably one of the sources of problems. Hilarious to the observers, but frustrating for the fixers, when pished as newts, they can't figure out the problem :shifty:

Listen here, we're not rookies mate, been doing this for quite some time. Bit of lubrication always make the job go sweeter.

[avgas]

We're going to have to strip that fucken loom aren't we……..
Yes.
You have a major short there somewhere. Or some kind crazy induced voltage - your lead cable isn't too close to indicator wire is it?

[Juzz976]

how many lights are in the tacho?

[White trash]

how many lights are in the tacho?

just two but when we had the dash wired up and the fuse blew, the dash illumination lights kept working as they're obviously on a different circuit. So I had a perfectly lumintaed tach reading zero revs :D

[Brian d marge]

One wee trick you can use to save fuses is to use an indicator flasher unit insead of the fuse instead of blowing fuses it will just trip the flasher unit ,

u can sit back with the loom live and not worry about the smoke coming out

Stephen

[Juzz976]

Tachometer and temp gauge <

check both including wiring (not the lamps inside).

or disconnect both. see how it runs, pull arpart n clean with contact cleaner and put in hot water cupboard.

[White trash]

Tachometer and temp gauge <

check both including wiring (not the lamps inside).

or disconnect both. see how it runs, pull arpart n clean with contact cleaner and put in hot water cupboard.

Got em disconnected now, no wires to the dash anywhere. No change whatsoever. That's what stumped me.

[Juzz976]

ok on that circuit is - Indicators, horn, brake switches.

[tri boy]

Bandit/RF looms are assembled by drunken 12yr olds working in pitch black out houses.
High chance that is where your fault is. MHO

[Paul in NZ]

Listen here, we're not rookies mate, been doing this for quite some time. .

I thought the time it was taking to fix it was the issue you knob... ;-)

Have a look at any earth terminations to the frame etc - they seem to be a tad 'marginal' on many Jap bikes of the era and time / moisture does not help.

[Paul in NZ]

Bandit/RF looms are assembled by drunken 12yr olds working in pitch black out houses.
High chance that is where your fault is. MHO


Nah - they are drunken 12 year olds at heart - perfect men for the job...

[sinfull]

I think your totally off track !

Heineken would be far nicer !!!!

[Deano]

I think your totally off track !

Heineken would be far nicer !!!!

Ya beat me to it mate !!

[pete376403]

Wiring *usually* fails at a connection, rarely within the wire (unless it has been stretched or overheated or pinched, etc) I'd go with pulling each connector block and cleaning with contact cleaner, lubricating with dielectric grease and reassembling. If the bike sat in the rain for that long, there's a good chance there is water inside a connector causing an intermittent short.

[tamarillo]

you need to accept the unavoidable truth - electricity is magic. Accept this and the thinking changes. Nothing logical you do will help. You need to step outside logic and get mystical man.

[White trash]

I think your totally off track !

Heineken would be far nicer !!!!

It actually is Heineken but I couldn't remember how to spell it so just chucked Steinlager in there.

[riffer]

You need the manual and wiring loom diags mate?

Check the wiring block just behind the steering stem (under tank) where the low tension wires come through for the coils. That benefits from some electrical cleaner and a good dose of vaseline too.

I also have a spare temp gauge you can have if its that sucker shorting. I have some spare wiring loom but it's a bit hacked up so will probably cause you more trouble than its worth.

[FROSTY]

Trashy Just so I've got it right in my head Bike was running fine then engine out --you have fitted the engine back in now its got issues. I'd be looking for mashed wires in contact areas and connector blocks full or half full of water.