Haybarn/Kiwispan home

[marty]

Does anyone here have a house built as a kiwispan/haybarn? I've got my eye on 10000m2 section and are keen to put a different lifestyle home for my family on it. Want to know what barriers to construction there are.

Cheers

[candor]

Pretty sure its one of those the neighbours live in - a large space so cold, went up fast with a shower / lou so there seemed to be no problem with consents and we're rural residential. I understand they had some probs with water leaks that it took them awhile to get corrected.

[Grumph]

Ask around your local area what your council's attitude to kitset buildings is... Selwyn where I am is notorious. None of the kitset building people are at all keen to sell in my area and some flatly refuse due to the attitude of the council and the ensuing degree of difficulty obtaining consents etc.

[Rogue Rider]

Does anyone here have a house built as a kiwispan/haybarn? I've got my eye on 10000m2 section and are keen to put a different lifestyle home for my family on it. Want to know what barriers to construction there are.

Cheers

Wouldn't recommend them here personally, due to my personal experience disorganised, slow and painful....... My preference now in the market is The Barn Company. Don't know if they are the largest manufacturer or not, however they have without question the best design capabilities than any of the other guys, as well as individual structural engineering for different requirements. I love how they don't use tec screws or rivets, they use big ass bolts so everything is super tough. At the field days they had a 4x4 suspended from a self supported standard Portal frame with no bracing. I was very impressed by that. All other displays looked like match stick strength by comparison. When I asked if others would do the same, they all sort of looked at each other and said they could supply gantries at extra cost lol...... so in other words No, the oppositions structural ability is able to handle a one in 50 year storm but not hold up a ute lol.
We are building a Barn/house/ man cave for all the toys. There is alot worse than kiwispan however if you want the best quality, value and longevity, I think its worth looking at The Barn Company.
They have offices fairly well distributed around the place. Check em out, they have a website.

other places doing steel buildings: Totalspan, All Span, Widespan (crap), Shed Boss, Shed Company.

[yungatart]

Our gagre is Kiwispan.
They are a lot more flexible with design than some of the other outfits we looked at, we could have it how we wanted it.
Structurally it is sound, and well built.

[rickstv]

Ask them for addresses in Christchurch to see how they have survived the big shakes.:yes:
Rick.

[Quasievil]

Hey Marty I used to sell them, the thing is mate its not a Barn once you are going to live in it, it is a habitable building and the construction differences reflect that, so whatever the quote for the barn, double it, and thats what it costs, extra concrete insulation, thermal barriers etc and a host of other crap.
But in saying that, you can make some damn nice ones.

[jim.cox]

Get to know the building code - it sets out what is required for a dwelling.

There is not a whole lot extra to it - but you will want to know whats needed before you begin...

Being able to quote it chapter and verse can be very useful when dealing with over-zealous building inspection nazis

[AllanB]

Ask them for addresses in Christchurch to see how they have survived the big shakes.:yes:
Rick.

Pretty irrelevant mate. We have 6 month old houses that are being destroyed due to being totally fucked and 100 year old ones that are unscathed.

The building regs dictate a new dwelling being designed to withstand a magnitude 7 earthquake. However all that means is that in theory you are able to walk or crawl out of your home after the big 7.0 - it is not required to be designed to repeatedly take another 200 shakes!

Frankly I'm very impressed at what our building down here have put up with.

[lb99]

I work for a kiwispan franhcise, we have lined a couple out for living in with no worries from the council, they are a good sound concept, but a bit costley for just a garage or carport, but the bigger they get the cheaper they are. where are you located?

[ellipsis]

.....whatever regs your council put on the building requirements may be a thing that will be under review from now on....all councils work under NZS 3604 but all have their own localised codes....better to check out from their side of things what the minimum requirements are and then price whatever you like and then add some...ive put up a few of the different metal buildings and some have turned out real cool living areas....some just cold barns with beds...

[Smifffy]

Kiwispan are a franchise company. One of my employees has had a garage built by their regional franchisee. They were very flexible with design and let him customise heavily.

The franchisee sub-contracted the job to a local "builder". The job has been done to an exceptionally poor standard, but at least they took their time.

The garage was supposedly finished 3 months ago, but he is still not using it, has not made the completion payment and is threatening to take them to fair go. The franchisee refused to return calls and emails for over a month, until fair go was mentioned in a written letter, when he then turned up two days later with a "minder".

In all of this the Kiwispan head office is refusing to become involved, stating categorically that the issue is between him and the regional franchise.

If you go with kiwispan I hope you have better luck.

[marty]

Some great advice there thanks everyone - I've got a meeting with the council today to discuss requirments

Chur

[scissorhands]

Ask about removable houses and garages, it can work out good value depending on things.

I saw a unlined timber weatherboard quadruple garage for $10k sited on concrete, or a 3 bed house for $40k

[porky]

.....whatever regs your council put on the building requirements may be a thing that will be under review from now on....all councils work under NZS 3604 but all have their own localised codes....better to check out from their side of things what the minimum requirements are and then price whatever you like and then add some...ive put up a few of the different metal buildings and some have turned out real cool living areas....some just cold barns with beds...

Not correct. The Act sets what is required. The regs tell us how to do it . Falls to the next level and under the building code you get various details (called compliance docs listed B to H covering all aspects ,refer acceptable solutions) 3604 is a standard for non specific design, and before producer statements or for things not specific design was the means for calculating all things required for dwellings to do with the "carpentry" side of building. Go concrete and you need 4229. The council has a thing called a district plan. This has yardage, setback daylight angles, hours of noise, zoning bla bla bla. Used to fall into 3 catagories (unsure for your area) but generally 1can do, 2 require resource consent etc or 3 no fuckn way so if a tin shed is listed as a permitted activity (1) you are good to go. Now as some one mentioned a shed is not usually designed to the standards of a habitable structure and the inspections are reflective of this. Bracing, loadings, ventilation, insulation etc etc etc to name but a few need to be considered. (Steel on steel will require a thermal break to stop cold bridging usually use a product such as SSS. How much greater is the loading of the ceiling on the roof members. What is the matrix rating? What is the roof pitch? bla bla bla. Councils are now stamping consents as either habitable or non habitable, putting a shed through as a shed to later convert is not a smart move, as remedial work may be required.
My advice for what its worth is talk to the company you wish to use and explain fully what you intend to do with the building. That way they can design and cost out the correct consentable structure. Hope this helps.

[Pixie]

There is one down the road from me on SH16,just before Jordan rd,It's in unpainted corrugated steel and has a full height glass atrium.

[ellipsis]

Not correct. The Act sets what is required. The regs tell us how to do it . Falls to the next level and under the building code you get various details (called compliance docs listed B to H covering all aspects ,refer acceptable solutions) 3604 is a standard for non specific design, and before producer statements or for things not specific design was the means for calculating all things required for dwellings to do with the "carpentry" side of building. Go concrete and you need 4229. The council has a thing called a district plan. This has yardage, setback daylight angles, hours of noise, zoning bla bla bla. Used to fall into 3 catagories (unsure for your area) but generally 1can do, 2 require resource consent etc or 3 no fuckn way so if a tin shed is listed as a permitted activity (1) you are good to go. Now as some one mentioned a shed is not usually designed to the standards of a habitable structure and the inspections are reflective of this. Bracing, loadings, ventilation, insulation etc etc etc to name but a few need to be considered. (Steel on steel will require a thermal break to stop cold bridging usually use a product such as SSS. How much greater is the loading of the ceiling on the roof members. What is the matrix rating? What is the roof pitch? bla bla bla. Councils are now stamping consents as either habitable or non habitable, putting a shed through as a shed to later convert is not a smart move, as remedial work may be required.
My advice for what its worth is talk to the company you wish to use and explain fully what you intend to do with the building. That way they can design and cost out the correct consentable structure. Hope this helps.

.....cant be fucked splitting hairs or disagreeing...AS/NZS4600 cover these cold pressed steel structures, the minute ' dwelling ', enters play and timber framing or construction occurs, NZS3604 is what covers this aspect of the building of., plus district variances..but fuck what would I know, I just build them...doing one right now...the only number that jumps up at me from the specs I have to build by is 3604...???

[yachtie10]

Some great advice there thanks everyone - I've got a meeting with the council today to discuss requirments

Chur

Would love you to keep us updated with this as I am interested in the concept

[porky]

.....cant be fucked splitting hairs or disagreeing...AS/NZS4600 cover these cold pressed steel structures, the minute ' dwelling ', enters play and timber framing or construction occurs, NZS3604 is what covers this aspect of the building of., plus district variances..but fuck what would I know, I just build them...doing one right now...the only number that jumps up at me from the specs I have to build by is 3604...???

Chill dude, wasnt trying to be an arse. Im a qualified/graduate construction manager that started 20 years ago on the tools (so i sort of know my shit from both sides of the fence) and get a bit anal when people dont give the full picture,(3604 is probably the most quoted/ mis quoted standard, of which very few have ever read) whats above is a shit load different than the post i took exception to. I apologise if you took offence

[ellipsis]

....no..totally agree with you porky, no offence taken..none given, i hope...bit of an irony me quoting standards and numbers...spend half me life trying to get round them...just had a couple of intense days with civil engineers and broken things to fix ..bit on edge..im glad i only build em for others..id hate to have to get one built...

[Parked beemer]

...In all of this the Kiwispan head office is refusing to become involved, stating categorically that the issue is between him and the regional franchise...

Hey I'd be interested to know if that was in the north island and whether others have had the same response from Kiwispan's head office. I imagine that is what their public liability insurance is there to cover!

[Parked beemer]

Does anyone here have a house built as a kiwispan/haybarn? I've got my eye on 10000m2 section and are keen to put a different lifestyle home for my family on it. Want to know what barriers to construction there are...

Designing a building to be habitable is no big deal. Steel framed buildings like KiwiSpan sheds and barn styles are no different to traditional houses. Things like insulating the frames, double glazing, lining etc is just part of the design process. In general (and in my opinion) buildings like Kiwispan are cheaper than conventional houses to erect the shell. Internal fit out costs are pretty well fixed. If you'd like more info let me know.

All the stuff about NZS3604/steel frame/NASH blah blah - is really an issue between designer & council. Once the council has put their stamp on your plans then all of that argument becomes redundant. Been there, done that, smacked a few council boffins with the Building Act....

[HenryDorsetCase]

Pretty irrelevant mate. We have 6 month old houses that are being destroyed due to being totally fucked and 100 year old ones that are unscathed.

The building regs dictate a new dwelling being designed to withstand a magnitude 7 earthquake. However all that means is that in theory you are able to walk or crawl out of your home after the big 7.0 - it is not required to be designed to repeatedly take another 200 shakes!

Frankly I'm very impressed at what our building down here have put up with.

light timber frame and cladding and light steel roof construction FTW.


I would be looking at foundation design first, then structure.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj5rq2_wood-innovations-quake-proof-buildings_news


http://www.stic.co.nz/

Andy Buchanan lectured at one of the lectures I went to. Fascinating.

[HenryDorsetCase]

"In all of this the Kiwispan head office is refusing to become involved, stating categorically that the issue is between him and the regional franchise."

Hey I'd be interested to know if that was in the north island and whether others have had the same response from Kiwispan's head office. I imagine that is what their public liability insurance is there to cover!

that response right there is why I would not deal with the company. pitching an issue back to the local franchisee like that is the worst sort of copout I can imagine. the franchisor was happy to collect the bloody franchise fees and margins and all that bullshit but wont stand behind a product with their branding on it when there is a problem? fuck everything about that.

One of the worst I ever heard of involved a GJ Gardner franchise. I would, as a result of that, never ever build with anyone with that franchise. And I note today the local GJ's (or one of them) have gone tits up with a bunch of houses under construction.

Bloody building industry: its pretty fundamentally broken in this country. great people working in it, but some real fundamental problems.

[Smifffy]

Yeah, another of my guys has a house he had built by GJs and has nothing but bile to say about them.

I also note that the kiwispan franchise that i mentioned earlier is currently for sale.

To be fair the guy that had the work done by kiwispan would be a very very difficult customer.


that response right there is why I would not deal with the company. pitching an issue back to the local franchisee like that is the worst sort of copout I can imagine. the franchisor was happy to collect the bloody franchise fees and margins and all that bullshit but wont stand behind a product with their branding on it when there is a problem? fuck everything about that.

One of the worst I ever heard of involved a GJ Gardner franchise. I would, as a result of that, never ever build with anyone with that franchise. And I note today the local GJ's (or one of them) have gone tits up with a bunch of houses under construction.

Bloody building industry: its pretty fundamentally broken in this country. great people working in it, but some real fundamental problems.

[sheddy]

After all that discussion years ago, has anything changed.
Who makes the best value sheds as per their offer and who would you be happy to build with again. Waikato High wind zone is where I need to have a shed put up.
9x 12-14m target with 4m gable for a car hoist.
cheers

[Akzle]

me .

[HenryDorsetCase]

Does anyone here have a house built as a kiwispan/haybarn? I've got my eye on 10000m2 section and are keen to put a different lifestyle home for my family on it. Want to know what barriers to construction there are.

Cheers

If it is a rural residential lifestyle block just check your title. There might be land covenants imposed by a developer that would prevent or restrict this sort of thing. They tend to want you to build some fucking awful mcmansion.

Apart from that: insulation.