Clicking noise when trying to start

[colsan1]

I've got a suzuki vs700 that i've been tidying up.
when i came to put it back together i found it wouldnt start.
everything is conected and earthed ok but when i press the starter
it just makes a clicking noise, like when the battery is going flat except
it isnt. I've tried connecting the car battery up to it and i still get the clicking
which i've traced to a small electrical component under the seat.
I'm shit with electrics, its all spaghetti to me but i can generally tinker about
with stuff once i know whats wrong. the thing is i dont know what the component is.
The engine is not turning over and the starter motor isnt turning either.
So when your batteries dieing and it make this clicking sound what is it??

[White trash]

I've got a suzuki vs700 that i've been tidying up.
when i came to put it back together i found it wouldnt start.
everything is conected and earthed ok but when i press the starter
it just makes a clicking noise, like when the battery is going flat except
it isnt. I've tried connecting the car battery up to it and i still get the clicking
which i've traced to a small electrical component under the seat.
I'm shit with electrics, its all spaghetti to me but i can generally tinker about
with stuff once i know whats wrong. the thing is i dont know what the component is.
The engine is not turning over and the starter motor isnt turning either.
So when your batteries dieing and it make this clicking sound what is it??

The clicking is the starter solenoid as it opens and closes when you hit the button. Sounds like a jammed starter gear on the end of the starter motor or sprag clutch or whatever the hell they're called. Popping the bike in gear, give it a good rock forward to turn the motor over slightly then back into neutral and hit the button again. Might work, might not.

[neels]

Check that you're not missing an earth from battery to the frame, or frame to engine if it's not hard mounted. Easy way to check is to stick a jumper lead from your battery negative to somewhere on the engine.

[Juzz976]

Sounds like your starter relay is energising but no spin at starter motor. most bikes have external relay as the starter motors are not solenoid actuated.

Check that the starter motor is wired to this relay with a decent sized wire and another wire to batt +, there will be small wire that is the control wire from the start button this may be interlocked by passing through another relay or neutral switch.

Starter motor could be dead too, try briefly tapping a wire to its terminal straight off battery(with a decent sized wire of course)

The starter motor wires are the biggest wire in motorcycles and cars, this is dues to the large inrush current required to turn the motor over.

[Juzz976]

Check that you're not missing an earth from battery to the frame, or frame to engine if it's not hard mounted. Easy way to check is to stick a jumper lead from your battery negative to somewhere on the engine.

+ 1 ...10 Chars...

[one fast tl1ooo]

:rofl: You dont have a evil :angry: ex. and its a time bomb, :lol: and she is trying to blow you up??:bye:

[slofox]

try briefly tapping a wire to its terminal straight off battery(with a decent sized wire of course)

The starter motor wires are the biggest wire in motorcycles and cars, this is dues to the large inrush current required to turn the motor over.


All this is good advice. Just don't do what I did once and use a bare, thinnish, solid copper wire to do the job. When I did that, the wire became instantly red hot and welded itself to my thumb...needless to say, I said "Oh dear, golly gosh that does smart..." :whistle:

[T.W.R]

Solenoid is making the noise as been said :yes:

Give the starter motor itself a tap on the end with the handle end of a scew driver, $5 says the brushes are worn or getting worn & have gummed up and not making proper contact with the armature :yes:
about $15 will get new brushes from a auto electrician, just requires a bit of nifty work with a soldering iron, cheaper than buying a replacement brush plate kit from a dealership (anywhere from $30-45).
Whilst apart give everything a good clean as the dust (ground-up brush) cakes onto every internal part.

[colsan1]

Well tried the above all with no joy.
However, i had previously asked my son to put the batery on charge which he did. After
buggering about this time i asked him to do it again while i cleared the garage. He put the
charger connectors on the wrong way round. I'm thinking this could have fried something so will have to
investingate again.

[avgas]

Well tried the above all with no joy.
However, i had previously asked my son to put the batery on charge which he did. After
buggering about this time i asked him to do it again while i cleared the garage. He put the
charger connectors on the wrong way round. I'm thinking this could have fried something so will have to
investingate again.
You connect the charger to the batter without disconnecting one of the terminals :blink:
Good lord man!:shutup: That is asking for trouble, especially when you consider your reversing the current on a DC circuit.
Always isolate the battery when connecting a high current charger. Trickle charges are different and have some smarts.

[neels]

He put the charger connectors on the wrong way round. I'm thinking this could have fried something so will have to
investingate again.
Very possibly, and probably your battery. I'd try another battery with that one disconnected and see if it helps.


Good lord man!:shutup: That is asking for trouble, especially when you consider your reversing the current on a DC circuit.You what now? How is connecting a battery charger (the right way around) and supplying volts to the electrical system any different to connecting a battery and supplying volts to the electrical system?

I've never disconnected the battery leads on any of my bikes or cars when charging, and haven't managed to fry any electrics yet.

[T.W.R]

He put the charger connectors on the wrong way round. I'm thinking this could have fried something so will have to
investingate again.

wouldn't affect the starter circuit, it's an open circuit until you hit the starter button :yes:

Simple test is connect a voltmeter to the starter terminal & a good earth and hit the button, if the voltage doesn't drop below 10v under load the fault is in the starter itself If it does drop below 10v the fault is in the circuit feeding the starter.

Check the solenoid itself too with a voltmeter (set on Ohms) test across the pins, the ohms should read zero or very close to zero. You can check it on volts reading also by testing to see the voltage (battery voltage), then hit the starter button & the reading should reduce to zero or very close, if the reading is below 0.5v then it's OK if the reading is above 0.5 then the contacts within the solenoid are getting poked. Though if it's clicking presently then that's usually a sign it's working as it should (that's the contacts snapping together).

[avgas]

I've never disconnected the battery leads on any of my bikes or cars when charging, and haven't managed to fry any electrics yet.
Its good to decrease the load (physical not resistance) - so that all the charge goes directly into the battery, rather then through the whole loom of the vehicle. Very handy to keep in mind - especially if your battery is dead due to the lights being left on........and they are still on and you haven't noticed.

I have only heard of car stories to be honest. People popping CPU's as they connected the charger, as the charger dumps the whole transformer current into the loom. Or chargers popping as they got rather warm trying to charge the batter with the loom attached (bad battery with lots of resistance vs low resistance loom in parrallel).

But as a general rule I always disconnect the battery from what ever system when I charge it, as its a case of 'who knows what could happen'. I have had a few 6v and smaller batteries, explode nicely.

[glegge]

yeah well - battery charging aside, if the engine is not even turning over, then your not going to know if anything else is busted, until you can get it to turn over and try to start.
it will be easier (probably) to get it turning over and attempt to start, that way at least it will be easier to diagnose if anything else is still wrong (IE does everything work as it should once engine running).

if your starter solanoid is clicking, then the starter motor SHOULD be being connected to the battery and turning the engine over.

so from here - do you have a volt meter?
can you hold one of the volt meter probes on the battery minus terminal, and the other volt meter probe on the starter motor terminal. this terminal should have a rubber boot over it most likley, just peal it away, and there will be a nut with a big lug joined to the end of a large wire that goes back to the solinoid.
now with the volt meter attached and the key off there should be no volts.

edit> i just had a look on the net, i'm not sure this bike does have a head light relay as they may have appeared a bit later in the years.
here is a picture of the starter solanoid that your looking for.

now put the key on, still no volts.
now push the start button, there should be 12volts (or there abouts).
if there is not:

some of our assumptions may be wrong, it may be a head light relay clicking, so your lights get switched off while the bike starts (to stop draining the battery during starting).
in this case, check the bike is in netural and on the side stand (try pulling the clutch in as well, hold it in when you try to start the bike).
with all these things done, and still no starting (or power to the starter motor as tested above with the volt meter) then well - we can go from there in future posts.

but in a nut shell, things to check.

if you can locate the starter motor solinoid assuming you *may* have located the head light relay at the moment (I cannot tell with out the circuit diagram or being in front of the bike), the starter motor solinoid is a little box or cylinder thing, with 2 big wires going into it, and a few small ones.
once you find this, if you can trace the thick wires, one will go to the battery + terminal.
the other thick wire will go to the starter motor.
now if you hold the box/cylinder (starter solinoid), and push the start button, you will probably feel it click. if you dont, then there is something more wrong.
to electricaly check this, put a volt meter probe on the neg battery terminal, and then put the other lead on one of the large terminals on the starter solinoid.
one should have 12V on it, the other should not.
if you push the start button both of the large terminals on the starter solinoid should have 12v on them.
best of luck. hopefully (if you have done some work on this bike) you may have just left off a side stand wire, neutral wire or a clutch switch wire.
if your local in wellington, i'd be happy to call by and have a gander.

edit, i dont think your bike will have a head light realy (It might be a bit old)...
i've included a link to a picture of the starter solinoid.. http://www.rmstator.com/upload/img_prod3826_1_lg.jpg

[colsan1]

Thanks glegge thats nice and easy to follow which is how i need it as i dont know jack about electricary.
Its definately the starter solonoid, it looks like the pic in the link. I'll test this afternoon with a multimeter.

[glegge]

Thanks glegge thats nice and easy to follow which is how i need it as i dont know jack about electricary.
Its definately the starter solonoid, it looks like the pic in the link. I'll test this afternoon with a multimeter.

great stuff, let us know how you get on.
cheers
Gavin

[colsan1]

Ok i've checked the battery to solonoid terminals.
Neg battery to solonoid terminal shows 11.9v other terminal shows nothing.
same with starter button pressed 12v drops to 11(ish) other terminal shows 7.9v.
I've not checked to starter motor terminal as i didnt go anywhere near them when working on the bike.

[Latte]

:rofl: You dont have a evil :angry: ex. and its a time bomb, :lol: and she is trying to blow you up??:bye:

When my parents split up my Mum swapped all the HT leads around on my Dad's Mustang, luckily it didn't catch when he tried to start it. Took a while to figure it out as well :D

[glegge]

Ok i've checked the battery to solonoid terminals.
Neg battery to solonoid terminal shows 11.9v other terminal shows nothing.
same with starter button pressed 12v drops to 11(ish) other terminal shows 7.9v.
I've not checked to starter motor terminal as i didnt go anywhere near them when working on the bike.

Thats odd, so if i have got this right, your getting (nominal) 12v on the starter solinoid input terminal from battery, then push the button, and only get 7.9volts on the output, while the input one drops a little.

Me - being the bush mechanic i am - would try this simple non destructive test.(well, you may pit the solonoid terminals a little)

short the solinoid input to the output with a big screwdriver. (the big terminals you have been measuring with the volt meter - with nuts holding on the thick cables from the battery and the starter motor). all your doing is connecting the battery directly do the starter motor (bypassing the solonoid), make sure the bike is not in gear.

be prepaired for a bit of a spark and crack sound, but the engine should turn over.
just remove the screwdriver and it will stop again.
with the key off, the engine wont start - so dont worry about that.
PLEASE make sure there is nothing flamable around the place, this will cause a spark and i'd hate for you to post back saying gee i burnt my bike down :(.

if the engine dows not turn over, something is wrong. either the battery is not good enough or there is an issue in the starter motor circuit.

you could try the same experiement (screw driver accross the solinoid terminals) again, but with another known good battery jumpered accross the bike one (just with jumper leads you have for you car).

if still no luck, try taking a jumper lead, connect it to the negative battery terminal, and connect the other end to a nice METAL clean piece of the engine as near as you can to the starter motor. this will make sure it's not an earth problem. make sure it's firmly connected to the engine, as a bad joint may mark any casings or what have you, which would not look pretty on a pristeen bike.

press the start button (if no luck, try the screw driver again).
if still no luck, i reckon you have a crook starter motor.



Now, if the engine DOES turn over (in the above, when you shorted out the starter soloniod) this means the solonoid is faulty, and should be replaced.
there are generic ones you can find (repco) that can be fitted but the wiring would need to be modified for this, and it would probably not fit in the stock location where the factory fitted one goes.

also if the engine does turn over (in the above where you took a jumper lead and connected the negative battery terminal to the engine some place close to the starter motor), then this means the return path is somehow not very good. so you need to look for the large cable that connects the engine to the frame or the battery negative terminal, and ensure it's connected properly.

anyway - i hope this helps.

let me know know you get on.
cheers
Gavin

[colsan1]

Cheers buddy, will test away.
I think if i get no joy after double checking everything its down to the local bike mechanic.

[glegge]

Cheers buddy, will test away.
I think if i get no joy after double checking everything its down to the local bike mechanic.

best of luck.
like i say, if your in wellington give me a yell, i'll be happy to try to help if i can.
cheers
Gavin

[Robtharalson]

I had a VX 800 that had a problem with the petcock -- it wouldn't completely shut off and would flood the rear cylinder to the point of filling it completely with fuel, causing a "starting problem" when the motor would crank just long enough to hydraulically lock the cylinder. It would sound like the starter motor wasn't working at all when in fact the motor could not turn.

I'd recommend removing the rear plug and slowly cranking the motor by hand to see if this is the case. If so, obviously replace the petcock, drain all the fuel out of the cylinder and squirt in about 5cc's of oil to lubricate the cylinder wall, change the oil (it will be very contaminated with fuel), stick the plug back in and try it again.

It's just an idea, but since it happened to me I assume it would happen to others.

Rob

[glegge]

I had a VX 800 that had a problem with the petcock -- it wouldn't completely shut off and would flood the rear cylinder to the point of filling it completely with fuel, causing a "starting problem" when the motor would crank just long enough to hydraulically lock the cylinder. It would sound like the starter motor wasn't working at all when in fact the motor could not turn.

I'd recommend removing the rear plug and slowly cranking the motor by hand to see if this is the case. If so, obviously replace the petcock, drain all the fuel out of the cylinder and squirt in about 5cc's of oil to lubricate the cylinder wall, change the oil (it will be very contaminated with fuel), stick the plug back in and try it again.

It's just an idea, but since it happened to me I assume it would happen to others.

Rob

Well done that man. i concentrated too much on the electrical side of things, did not stop for a moment to think about mechanical issues. well worth checking the engine turns over for sure!