lady riders

[Lee Rusty]

lady riders are the fastest growing branch of motorcycling around the world.
In twenty years of teaching new riders, I will make the staement that in my opinion women make better riders than men - they may not be as fast - but they are safe.

Can't ask for better than that

[Motoracer]

I belive that

[Liv, Norway]

Thank you, Motoracer & LeeRusty!

:apint: Liv. :)

[bluninja]

I would agree that statistically women are safer riders/drivers than men. I would not decribe them as better...that depends on what you consider to be better.

TTFN

[duckman]

I'd say that they are better at thinking with their heads, as apposed to men who to tend to drive with their dicks.

*Flame On* :D

[bluninja]

Men and Women think differently. One isn't better or worse than the other. Generally men have better hand eye coordination, better spatial awareness, and are able to take in more from the surroundings without being distracted. However they also have a heightened sense of confidence, and are more agressive/competitive on the road.

TTFN

[Lee Rusty]

what do I mean by better

Smoother operation of the machine, leading to good riding style.
Safer operation of machine leading to longevity.
Better reading of the road leading to longevity.

As fo comment men drive with there dicks

that I counter by saying a week ago I saw a WOMAN driver (car)
MULTITASKING - Driving over harbour bridge at 60+K talking on phone and reading a glossy magazine spread out on her steering wheel - not doubt she also had the radio on. SHe probably would have put on cosmetics if she had another hand.

I work on the bridge and had a chance to observe this for over almost full length of bridge, she read article glanced up to see what was happening on road back to mag etc - in the time I watched her the car travelled over a km and her eyes were on the road maybe 2 - 3 seconds.

One can only hope she kills herself without taking out someone else.

Also long term obervation on bridge traffic shows approx 1 in 5 women on phone while driving - wiht men it is approx 1 in 20.

So women are not blameless drivers.

I do however believe after 20 years and over thousands of students - I am able to state women make "better" rider than men.
If your only criteria is speed then men win - but there is a lot more to riding a m/c than going fast.
Any one can go fast it requires no brain and a fistfull of throttle,
the faster the bike goes the more stable it becomes, thus covering up for riders lack of skill. Unfortunately one can not go fast everywhere (race track excepted) and thus riders get into strife.

This comment is not to say that race riders do not exhibit both skill and speed, but they are in the minority. Indeed they are an art form to watch. Nothing looks better than Rossi in full cry.

THe trouble is riders who try to emulate the racers ability with out the racers skill.

[Motoracer]

We have come a long way since the old "Biker Angels" threads. Its more busy now but like someone once said before, the males to female ratio has plummeted to some what similar to a bike's compression ratio in the thread. I guess at least there is some activity in the forum now.




:Offtopic:

[Motoracer]

1) I too saw a chick the other day, trying to put on lipstick with the left hand while looking at the mirror and at the same time she was holding a ciggy with the other hand. This was on the motorway ofcourse.

2) I guess you don't need brains to go fast for a short term but to go fast and stay upright for a longer period, you do require some brains.

3) I do not really understand what you mean by the bike being more stable when it is going faster. I usually experience higher unstability at higher speeds. Front and back tyres loosing traction around corners, suspension loading and unloading in an erratic manner making steering more difficult and braking more touchy (I am referring to riding on not so perfect roads). Oh and how could I forget the all too often yet scary every time TANK SLAPPERS!!

[Jackrat]

Iv,e seen a lot of women in what were once male only jobs.
Now days when I see this I just take it with a grain of salt,She will be good at it.
BTW i have always considered safe to mean good.
The two fastest riders I ever knew are both now dead.

[bluninja]

I do however believe after 20 years and over thousands of students - I am able to state women make "better" rider than men.

You've formed an opinion based on your observations and made a statement.....it doesn't make it fact. However it's interesting to note; anecdotal information from riding instructor friends in the UK indicates that women require more training, and have a higher test failure rate at CBT and full practical test. Perhaps once they have aquired the skills they mature into 'better' riders: who knows.

Anyway had a look around for any stats around....found one report in Oz about comparisons between men and women drivers...Apparently a survey is under way specifically aimed at women motorcyclists, but no results or reports. An abstract from the Oz report...

In spite of the relative differences in the rates of change, men still have a considerably higher fatality rate than women. In 1995, the fatality rate for male car drivers (0.76 deaths per 100 million km) was 1.64 times higher than that for female car drivers (0.46). However, the differential between men and women decreases for less severe crashes. In fact, the rate of hospitalisation of female car drivers (8.35 per 100 million km driven) is 1.15 times higher than that for men (7.35 per 100 million km driven).

TTFN

[Lee Rusty]

I did not say it was a fact

I said I believe - It is a statement - my opinion

sounds like some picky people feel treatened

It is also my finding that women take no longer to train than men.

I believe it is not having to do the "macho thing "

Men are more competative, and feel they have to prove something to me or others.

[Slim]

Si - I have to say that I found the female motorcyclists I encountered in the UK to be a bit on the timid side, and perhaps this contributes to the longer training/higher test failure rate in England? Or perhaps its a harder test than the NZ one? Or maybe it's got something to do with the volume of traffic in the lower half of England, a lot more "heavy" vehicles in the mix? Just some thoughts. :)


Lee - what sort of proportion of Basic Skills & Handling vs more advanced motorcycle training are you talking about, when it comes to the women you're training? I recall that I took to bikes really quickly at 18yo, but wasn't the safest of riders until several years later: taking risks during overtaking, carrying too much steam into corners, riding bikes that were much too powerful for me, and hence getting into strife. :shit:

[bluninja]

Originally posted by Lee Rusty
sounds like some picky people feel treatened 


Lee, picky would be discussing your spelling:D

Yes, you didn't say it was a fact, but within the context of your post it had a ring of ergo sum. Why else tried to add weight to your opinion with 20 years and thousands of students? Perhaps it is you being picky??

As for feeling threatened; oh dear! If someone discounts or differs with your opinion then they obviously must feel threatened. Perhaps in your world.

Men and women in general have distinct and different thinking and communication styles; not better or worse - just different. If we are open to this then we can learn from the strengths of the opposite gender and benefit.

Slim, who knows why there is an apparrent difference between NZ and UK. It could be down to the students each instructor attracts, or what 'facts' they retain and use to form their opinions with.

I must be having a really slow day to day :cool:

TTFN

[Lee Rusty]

u must b

[Lee Rusty]

I forgot
20 years and thousands of rider is a fact I started training in 1983 and have over 3500 riders in my files.

I have found that this site has got worse and worse - people with nothing to contribute to anything who just answer all any damn near every post so that they can get their tally of replies up
That is an opinion

and probably the last one I will ever post.

[chic 'n' charge]

That is an opinion and probably the last one I will ever post.

Everyone on this website is free to their opinions. If you feel strongly about your opinions then you stick to them. Being a female bike rider (and racer) I definitely agree with you. The ladies that I ride with in Babes on Bikes are all very good riders. We take our time and don't let pressure of others worry us. It makes the trip so much better. Of course there are a few of us (me inclusive) that do ride a bit quicker but that is our choice.

Keep up the interesting comments.

Yours in riding...... :p

[Ogri]

Si - I have to say that I found the female motorcyclists I encountered in the UK to be a bit on the timid side, and perhaps this contributes to the longer training/higher test failure rate in England?
An opinion from the Newbie -

I take exception to that - I've ridden bikes and driven cars in the UK (both north and south) for the last 20 years and I've never, NEVER (ok, maybe in France) seen worse driving than here in NZ. When I converted to the NZ licence in April of 2003, I thought they were taking the piss - multiple choice - what the feck is that all about?

[Jackrat]

Ogri,Thanks for saying that,I spent a number of years over sea,s working mostly as a driver.When I came back to NZ I was shocked at the poor driving skills of most of us Kiwi,s----Utter crap.
That applys to most NZ bikers as well,It seems to me that most NZ riders think that going fast equiats to being a good rider.But not to worry the vast majority of Kiwi riders are here today gone tomorrow anyway.
You will find on this site the constant theme that it is always the other guys fault.Kiwis in general don,t go much on this personal responsiblity thing. :no:
But anyway back to this female rider thing.I fully agree with Lee on this,I have had the pleasure of working with quite a number of women in traditionly male jobs,They DO once given the chance,way out perform their male counter parts.This certainly rattles a few egos as can be clearly seen by some of the other replys on this thread. :lol:
Anyway mate keep your eyes open because when some guy traveling way over the speed limit T bones you,HE will claim it was your fault for pulling out on HIM. :yes:

[Ogri]

Hey Jackrat - I could rant on about Kiwi driving - what is it about the pulling out in front of you thing. You're whistling along, nothing behind you - you spot the Toyota Surf sitting in the driveway. They wait, they wait..............ah, you think - as there is nothing behind me, they are going to wait until I pass before pulling out. And then............ when you're about able to see him picking his snout, out he comes. And then, AND THEN he drives along the verge for the next half kilometre showering you with gravel and shit, etc. I don't know..... it really confuses me. Do they do it just to see if you're awake?
Also, I constantly thank the Gods for the empty roads and brilliant sunshine........but, there is a price to pay.............POTHOLES! Man, I've never seen anything like it. I was out for a quick blat the other day, not hooning, just cruising and I head off down through the Wainui Gorge. Come round a left hander doing about 95Ks and there is a dirty great hole right on the line. Could do nothing but sit there and hope that the Gods were smiling. The resulting weave (bordering on tank slapper) had me across the white line and gave me a bit of a shock, I can tell you. My little SV650 is fecking awesome. If I had been on my Elefant back home, I'm sure I would have been eating dirt.
Anyroad, that's my moan this morning.

[wkid_one]

Oh thank god someone else feels the same way about this site at times. I am still recovering from posting my opinion on this.

However - lately I must say the threads have been thoroughly interestly and worthwhile <--- the only opinion in this post.

My two cents: I don't think women are better or worse - just different. They are probably better at certain things on the road - whether riding or driving - and worse at others - it all evens out.

Case in point is that NO women are competing at MotoGp/SBK level - yet the sports are not restricted to males only. DOes this make them technically worse riders? DOes this mean that in order to ride a bike well and competitively on the RACETRACK you need a 'male brain'? DO you need 'male strength? Does this have any bearing at all?

It is an honest statistic that women drivers have less accidents than males per head of capita. This doesn't however factor in time on the road, miles travelled etc. It is only women at fault accidents/total women with licenses. Is this then an accurate statistic? Do men travel more miles than women and are therefore more susceptical to having accidents?

More questions - no answers. Just food for thought.....

All I know is that in all the time I have been riding - I have NEVER heard of a woman having a bike accident, but plenty of guys. May be a result of less woman riding, but it speaks for itself.

[SPman]

In twenty years of teaching new riders, I will make the statement that in my opinion women make better riders than men - they may not be as fast - but they are safe.
Can't ask for better than that

Would have to agree with you there.
In my opinion (can a post ever be otherwise?) younger riders are always going to let enthusiasm and bravado have more of an influence on their riding.Some younger women are like this, but not many. Most women riders, young and old, tend to temper their enthusiasm with a sense of real world survival ethic, whereas men, particularly in a group, nearly always seem to get into that competitive, my dick is bigger than yours, scenario and often end up riding like pillocks! (me included) I find women, generally, much more enjoyable and relaxing to ride with.
Also to work and socialise with! But.......

I have NEVER heard of a woman having a bike accident,

Nice if this were true for me too, but......, they just dont put themselves in quite the same situations that guys do, so the odds are better.

[Draco]

For those not getting their heckles up the consensus of opionion seems to be that men and women are just different neither one better than the other. I would have to agree with that. Men are driven by testosterone and women by eostrogen and as much as we try and change it that's the way it is, and it makes us operate differently. 12 years as a medic ive seen my fair share of crashes. In my experience the big ones involving serious injury or fatality always involve a male driver. They drive/ride faster and take more risks. The little ones involve women, they drive/ride slower and are more cautious, but when there's a problem they tend to hesitate. New to motorcycling (3yrs) ive mainly ridden with men as i come from up north and only a handful of women ride up there. Im now riding in auckland and get to ride with a mixed group of male/female and find that the most enjoyable too. There's less of the ego bullshit from men, and more of the comradeship, which is what it's all about to me. Bikers enjoying riding, and enjoying riding with others alike.
As for women not having accidents, im just recovering from a big one 12mnths ago. Broke my pelvis in 5 places, tore out my knee ligament, sprained a few other ligaments and removed half a km of skin, so there blows all our theories????!!!!

[Motoracer]

For those not getting their heckles up the consensus of opionion seems to be that men and women are just different neither one better than the other. I would have to agree with that. Men are driven by testosterone and women by eostrogen and as much as we try and change it that's the way it is, and it makes us operate differently. 12 years as a medic ive seen my fair share of crashes. In my experience the big ones involving serious injury or fatality always involve a male driver. They drive/ride faster and take more risks. The little ones involve women, they drive/ride slower and are more cautious, but when there's a problem they tend to hesitate. New to motorcycling (3yrs) ive mainly ridden with men as i come from up north and only a handful of women ride up there. Im now riding in auckland and get to ride with a mixed group of male/female and find that the most enjoyable too. There's less of the ego bullshit from men, and more of the comradeship, which is what it's all about to me. Bikers enjoying riding, and enjoying riding with others alike.
As for women not having accidents, im just recovering from a big one 12mnths ago. Broke my pelvis in 5 places, tore out my knee ligament, sprained a few other ligaments and removed half a km of skin, so there blows all our theories????!!!!


Finally! someone who agrees with my theory about the hormons :D

[KATWYN]

Would have to agree with you there.
In my opinion (can a post ever be otherwise?) younger riders are always going to let enthusiasm and bravado have more of an influence on their riding.Some younger women are like this, but not many. Most women riders, young and old, tend to temper their enthusiasm with a sense of real world survival ethic, whereas men, particularly in a group, nearly always seem to get into that competitive, my dick is bigger than yours, scenario and often end up riding like pillocks! (me included) I find women, generally, much more enjoyable and relaxing to ride with.
Also to work and socialise with! But.......

I have NEVER heard of a woman having a bike accident,

Nice if this were true for me too, but......, they just dont put themselves in quite the same situations that guys do, so the odds are better.

I have ridden with some woman that made my hair stand on end. Took more risks than a lot of men I had ridden with. There was a bit of competition happening thats for sure. Not my cup of tea at all. :sweatdrop

[SPman]

I have ridden with some woman that made my hair stand on end.Well...I did say most...not all! ...and women often ride scarily in ways guys dont think of...like passing a line of cars on the left hand side, at speed, including taking to the gravel verge! :eek:

[KATWYN]

Well...I did say most...not all! ...and women often ride scarily in ways guys dont think of...like passing a line of cars on the left hand side, at speed, including taking to the gravel verge! :eek:
I agree about the accident thing you said as well...or is it
that they have caused accidents but not actually been in their own one! hehe joke ; ( runs and ducks for cover)

[Ms Piggy]

Ogri,Thanks for saying that,I spent a number of years over sea,s working mostly as a driver.When I came back to NZ I was shocked at the poor driving skills of most of us Kiwi,s----Utter crap.
That applys to most NZ bikers as well,It seems to me that most NZ riders think that going fast equiats to being a good rider.But not to worry the vast majority of Kiwi riders are here today gone tomorrow anyway.
You will find on this site the constant theme that it is always the other guys fault.Kiwis in general don,t go much on this personal responsiblity thing. :no:
But anyway back to this female rider thing.I fully agree with Lee on this,I have had the pleasure of working with quite a number of women in traditionly male jobs,They DO once given the chance,way out perform their male counter parts.This certainly rattles a few egos as can be clearly seen by some of the other replys on this thread. :lol:
Anyway mate keep your eyes open because when some guy traveling way over the speed limit T bones you,HE will claim it was your fault for pulling out on HIM. :yes:

Having worked in a male dominated work place myself, I found that different guys treated me differently, like some of them would watch their language & tone of speak around me and others didn't give a sh*t but they all treated me as an equal, like didn't give me a hard time for being on the job as long as I did the job.

My theory has always been that if I do my best then I deserve respect - not b/c I'm a woman doing "a man's job" but b/c I'm a person doing a good job! To me that theory should be the same with riding.

I would say all the guys I worked with were all pretty good but a couple members of the public took exception to me. I wasn't out to prove anything and the guys I worked with knew that so it wasn't an issue really and the same with riding, I'm just another person that loves riding my motorbike - to me my gender is irrelevant.

Incidentally I worked for a road gang. :niceone:

[KATWYN]

Having worked in a male dominated work place myself, I found that different guys treated me differently, like some of them would watch their language & tone of speak around me and others didn't give a sh*t but they all treated me as an equal, like didn't give me a hard time for being on the job as long as I did the job.

My theory has always been that if I do my best then I deserve respect - not b/c I'm a woman doing "a man's job" but b/c I'm a person doing a good job! To me that theory should be the same with riding.

I would say all the guys I worked with were all pretty good but a couple members of the public took exception to me. I wasn't out to prove anything and the guys I worked with knew that so it wasn't an issue really and the same with riding, I'm just another person that loves riding my motorbike - to me my gender is irrelevant.

Incidentally I worked for a road gang. :niceone:

Yea good on you, doing what you want to do. In the 80's I did a "non traditional" apprenticeship of car painting. I will never again put myself in that environment (another story). But as far as riding my motorcycle goes, sometimes I get comments especially from the "traditional" type person like for example recently when one person was looking at the bike I ride said "oh, so where are you going to put your children on your bike when you have them?" ...interesting question, to give a smart answer too (couldnt think of
one at the time, was taken back by a 1900's comment in the year 2000)

I was interested in your comment that public take exception to your job?? how come?

[Kickaha]

"oh, so where are you going to put your children on your bike when you have them?"


In the sidecar of course!

[KATWYN]

[QUOTE=KATWYN] "oh, so where are you going to put your children on your bike when you have them?"

QUOTE]

In the sidecar of course!

Perfect. didnt think of that at the time. :)

[Ms Piggy]

Yea good on you, doing what you want to do. In the 80's I did a "non traditional" apprenticeship of car painting. I will never again put myself in that environment (another story). But as far as riding my motorcycle goes, sometimes I get comments especially from the "traditional" type person like for example recently when one person was looking at the bike I ride said "oh, so where are you going to put your children on your bike when you have them?" ...interesting question, to give a smart answer too (couldnt think of
one at the time, was taken back by a 1900's comment in the year 2000)

I was interested in your comment that public take exception to your job?? how come?

HA! That peeves me how people often assume that b/c you are a woman you will have children & that if you choose to become a Mother it will mean no more riding (or whatever else you may do for fun)...maybe you could say something like: "The kids would ride in the car with their Father." :cool:

As for comments from members of the public - I had an elderly man walk up to me when I was shovelling some gravel and say: "Ooooo, you shouldn't be doing a job like this! It's not a job for a woman" that was kinda sweet really not nasty at all. However!! Another guy was talking to a fellow road gang member (who I was standing beside) and said to him "What's this? Is *she* out to prove that she can do the job better than us." <_< I could've hugged my work mate b/c he replied "Well I dunno but she knows more than I do b/c she's been on the job longer." HA! The guy was a bit stumped by that.

[Redstar]

I recon that ladies do everytime better than mere males and probably that includes biking from a safety point of view. I would say that women are however are limited by lack of male bravado,ego and stupidity. and that keeps them on the netball court :mellow: there are however exception to the rule. and I like stupid women :laugh:

[Suzi Q]

I have only been riding for about 4 years, I have been to a track day at Ruapuna and I have also been to a training day at Ruapuna - the best day ever! And it rained!
For me, I think that because I started riding late in life - 30's - I am more cautious - but only in the twisties. I love speed, but I believe I am carefull. I think that my husband may disagree on that last point though!
I have been told by rider friends who have been riding for a lot longer than me that I am a good rider and dare I say it - better than my husband as I continue to improve!!!

lady riders are the fastest growing branch of motorcycling around the world.
In twenty years of teaching new riders, I will make the staement that in my opinion women make better riders than men - they may not be as fast - but they are safe.

Can't ask for better than that

[dangerous]

I have been told by rider friends who have been riding for a lot longer than me that I am a good rider and dare I say it - better than my husband as I continue to improve!!!

Shit Suzi Q, I hope he dosent read this thread or he will have my balls for bookings :bash:

[Kickaha]

I have been to a track day at Ruapuna


There's one at Timaru on March 14th if you'd like to give it another go!

[Draco]

I recon that ladies do everytime better than mere males and probably that includes biking from a safety point of view. I would say that women are however are limited by lack of male bravado,ego and stupidity. and that keeps them on the netball court :mellow: there are however exception to the rule. and I like stupid women :laugh:

Mmmm thats the first time i think being called stupid is a complement :bleh:

[magnum]

safer in respect of taking less high risk manoveres

[Joni]

Slim - you've been riding with the wrong girls. I trained a friend of mine, on racing techniques, racing lines, braking etc.... he won 2 races @ phakisa South Africa this weekend, these races were held in conjunction with the GP being held there. Now if a girl can train a man to ride, and then have him win - she must be doing something right. Y :D es he was on a GSX1000, but skill does count for something. Dont put all woman in the same category - excpetions to the rule are always refreshing.

[Jackrat]

The resent Triumph owners run I went on,I passed a woman on an old Triumph Bonnie.She had high bars,Skull in cross bones painted on the tank,More frilly bits than a frilly thing and I thought, give me a brake,that went one in the eightys.Then we hit the Karangahape gorge,she took exseption to the japper passing her and It was all on.I don't mind in the lest admiting she pushed it hard, had me packin' bricks a couple of times.No taste what so ever, but a damn good rider for sure. :D

[Motoracer]

Slim - you've been riding with the wrong girls. I trained a friend of mine, on racing techniques, racing lines, braking etc.... he won 2 races @ phakisa South Africa this weekend, these races were held in conjunction with the GP being held there. Now if a girl can train a man to ride, and then have him win - she must be doing something right. Y :D es he was on a GSX1000, but skill does count for something. Dont put all woman in the same category - excpetions to the rule are always refreshing.


Can I please ride with you when you get a bike? I'd so appriciate any pointers you can give. If you are free on this friday the 23rd, why not come to the track even for a watch. It'll be really good to meet all the people as well I am sure.

BTW, did you used to race or still race?

[marty]

I have NEVER heard of a woman having a bike accident,

Nice if this were true for me too, but......, they just dont put themselves in quite the same situations that guys do, so the odds are better.


about 6 weeks ago a female on a scooter pulled across in front of a car in central hamilton, and ended up going over the roof - badly broken leg and scratched up nasty for her troubles.

she had the crash for a number of reasons i reckon.

1. bike was very manouverable, and too quick and easy to change direction for her skill level
2. the bike had 120kms on the clock
3. she had a 6L licence only (no ride test - didn't even have a car licence)
4. she was asian

the car driver had no options, and only braked afer the impact, it happened that quickly. the car was travelling at about 40kph at impact

also, aged 16 my wife bailed off her A100 into a paddock - she still bears the burn scar off the exhaust. too fast, alcohol, not paying attention.

i could go on..........

[Joni]

Can I please ride with you when you get a bike? I'd so appriciate any pointers you can give. If you are free on this friday the 23rd, why not come to the track even for a watch. It'll be really good to meet all the people as well I am sure.

BTW, did you used to race or still race?

We can go out and ride with pleasure.

Yes I did race, first cars, later bikes. It was really good because it was passion based for me, which made me want to be better and not conform.

Cant make Friday.... work!

[Wonko]

To throw my hand into the ring and to put my neck on the line, I will offer up my reasoning behind why women seem to do better than the average man in many fields that are normal male dominated roles.

A woman make more of a desision to take up something than a man, and hence is more inclinded to do better at it than the average man. It might be better to call it a better ability to goal set.

Prime example. Back at tech in class of 40 students, ~15 female. IT course, out of the 40 students, 20 had a carear in mind, what field and job they were after, half of them where female. 2/3 females knew what they wanted, and worked towards it. 1/3 of the males knew what they wanted, and worked towards it. at the end of 2 years there were a lot less males that finished.

[Zed]

Cant make Friday.... work!
Oh what a shame Joni- they must really work you hard to not let you take a day off!! :D Whereas my boss was quite accomodating when I asked him for the day off two weeks back :2thumbsup


Zed

[Joni]

Oh what a shame Joni- they must really work you hard to not let you take a day off!! :D Whereas my boss was quite accomodating when I asked him for the day off two weeks back :2thumbsup


Zed

Hey Zed - behave!!! My boss and your boss, definatley not the same type of person... :whistle: