How are LED strips classified under the law?

[Gremlin]

Been reading up, as I reckon having a strip either side on the handguards could be useful. A, increase perception of size of bike to others on road, B, backup for when both filaments in your bulb blow at night :eek: (not perfect, but I guarantee better than nothing).

My first answer would be Daytime running lamps, however, the regs are clear they may not operate when dipped or main beam (aka headlamp) is in use. This doesn't differ from cars to bikes either. Seen plenty of euro cars (and others) with both daytime and headlamps operating at the same time.

If cosmetic lighting, they cannot be directly visible from certain angles, and they clearly fail this. If you tried to classify as a headlamp you have rules about angles and motorcycles may have 1 or two headlamps, therefore, you would need to pass off both strips of LED's as one headlamp, if they bought it, assuming you only had one headlamp to begin with. Except you then have issues with the reg that a headlamp must be fitted with a light source that is specified by motorcycle or headlamp manufacture. They also have to be angled downward... and LED strips glued/taped to handguard have no adjustment. (unless I guess, you angled the guard down). Then they also have to illuminate the road for 50m, on dip.

Ideally, I'd have them wired into headlamp circuit, so they are always on... daytime running lights do not permit this.

If you'd like a fun few hours of reading (or want a headache) relevant sections in PDF format are here: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/virm-in-service-certification/virm-in-service-certification.html

Thinking of something like this: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=318394067&rewritten=true

[davereid]

... want a headache) relevant sections in PDF format are here: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/virm-in-service-certification/virm-in-service-certification.html


14e Reasons For Rejection

The headlamps are not capable of being switched to dip or switched off from the drivers seating position...

How the hell do I ever get a WOF lol. I cant turn my lights off at all ! Well I can, by turning the engine off.

[davereid]

But your LEDS would appear to be legal if classified as forward facing position lamps !

[red mermaid]

The lighting rule is a wonderful piece of gobblegook!

You may notice a large number of whiteish Holden Commodores running round that in theory have illegal daytime running lights. :msn-wink:

[Gremlin]

14e Reasons For Rejection

The headlamps are not capable of being switched to dip or switched off from the drivers seating position...

How the hell do I ever get a WOF lol. I cant turn my lights off at all ! Well I can, by turning the engine off.
Main section 14 under headlamps... "when the main beam headlamps are switched on"... ie, on high, you can't switch to dip or off from driving position. Definitely a problem...

But your LEDS would appear to be legal if classified as forward facing position lamps !
I initially thought this, until I found the piece which determined the difference between categories. Mandatory and permitted equipment, Section 2:
One or two lamps may be fitted to:
a) a motorcycle that does not exceed 1.5 m in width
b) a motorcycle first registered in New Zealand before 1 January 1978 that does not exceed 2 m in width.

oooh! I read that as exceeds 1.5m (ie, a wide bike...). They must be fitted to a bike exceeding 1.5m, may be fitted to a bike not exceeding 1.5m.

Also, with recent law changes, it used to be that over 1.2m they couldn't be fitted (the supermoto is a very tall bike) but now, if bodywork doesn't make it practical, it mustn't exceed 2.1m (show me a bike not matching that :eek:) Even better, the rules state the lights MUST BE SEEN within an angle, whereas other sections are MUST NOT BE SEEN... handy :niceone:

The lighting rule is a wonderful piece of gobblegook!

You may notice a large number of whiteish Holden Commodores running round that in theory have illegal daytime running lights. :msn-wink:
zigactly! :wacko: When pinged for them (either cops, or VTNZ failing bike), I don't want to say, hey, but they all do the illegal stuff, why can't I? I would much prefer to stay within the law... much less hassle. Thanks to dave making me read the rules a little more carefully, I think I know what to call them :msn-wink:

[jasonzc]

As you prob know gremlin, i know nothing much about lighting.

But cant you just put it on, and get someone to Cert it? if cops pull u over, surely no big deal?

I donno.. just a suggestion haha.

[scumdog]

But your LEDS would appear to be legal if classified as forward facing position lamps !

THIS is the problem with lighting legislation.

Nobody has realy specified what constitutes a 'day-time running light' or 'side marker light' or 'auxiliary light' or 'forward facing position light' or...

So just fit the lights, pick what suits your need legality-wise and call them that.

[Gremlin]

But cant you just put it on, and get someone to Cert it? if cops pull u over, surely no big deal?
A wof is a point in time check, not a guarantee for 6 months or a year. I could get pulled up for it the next day and fined. LVV cert is possible, but a pain in the ass, just for some led strips.

THIS is the problem with lighting legislation.

Nobody has realy specified what constitutes a 'day-time running light' or 'side marker light' or 'auxiliary light' or 'forward facing position light' or...

So just fit the lights, pick what suits your need legality-wise and call them that.
Yep, pretty much what I had concluded, but cheers. LED are specifically mentioned in position lights, ie, 75% or more must work, so they have thought about them for that category. Seems safe, just wanted to double check. I prefer less hassle, time wasting etc. Only issue will be if they change the freaken law, which is inevitable :weep:

I've bought the strips from link in post 1, should have them fitted tomorrow afternoon, roping in GiJoe, as I need a lekky monkey, not trusting myself.

[R6_kid]

Last time I checked they were classified under "gay" and "rice".

[scumdog]

Last time I checked they were classified under "gay" and "rice".
So if I put them on my Harley it would then be classed as a sportsbike??:innocent::whistle:

[st00ji]

dont go to vtnz? :D

though from what i've heard they are one of the easiest places to get a wof for a bike

[gijoe1313]

:slap: And guess who will be the muppet who will have to help gremlin do this bit of lekky blinging? :thud:

I wonder if I can teach him good enough so that he will know how to do any future installations ... I mean, I'm a teacher ... how hard could it be to teach Gremlin to install some simple LEDs? :sweatdrop

I'm.

So.

Screwed.

:weep:

[R6_kid]

Black to -ve, red to +ve, switch inline, don't pinch/crush the wires. Done.

Not that I've done it before...

[imdying]

So if I put them on my Harley it would then be classed as a sportsbike??:innocent::whistle:They're just lights, not a Jenny Craig program for motorcycles.

[BMWST?]

so are you fitting these to the front of the handguards?.I am thinking about tdoing this to the ol beemer which has a marginal electrical for commuting with headlight on,and calling them daylight running lamps,would be pretty easy to wire them via a relay so they would go off if headlamp was turned on .

[Squiggles]

Just fit some like Toto's, they're awesome.

[Gremlin]

They're fitted and working. He got frustrated at times, but hey, he knows my past with lekky stuff, its much better to let someone else at it... (ie, I wired a radar detector into the fuel pump circuit... well, I didn't know how much it used, but evidently more than after a radar detector was plugged in... :eek:)

They've even had a good workout. Started around 6.30pm, finished around 9pm... most of the time spent pulling the bike apart and putting it back together again. I think he finally realises how much extra wiring is in the bike. :D We then sat back and tested them, and they actually perform really well. Very noticeable, and if I lost my headlight, it would actually be an OK backup. On top of this, when stopping in the country at night (swapping gloves etc) night riders will know how hard it is to find your ignition to put the key back in... because its all dark. Lights stay on unless I turn them off... fantastic, easy work finding the ignition now.

Satisfied with our work, testing it over and over, we're both happy, I'm happy I didn't blow something up. Of course, it was well past dinner time, so we popped off to a Wendys to get some food...

... and into a police breath check point. I solely blame GiJoe for this. Evidently his fault. Couple of officers seemed bemused, but nothing more said. After holding up a queue of cars (they wanted the helmets off), and dinner, we went right back through it again, but they waved us through. I left him in peace (or is that pieces) and went back to the office to finish off some work...

... and went through another breath check point in Otara. Definitely GiJoe at work again :crazy: This officer just about laughed his head off... dunno if he thought I was taking the piss with the lights?

Oh well... now I'm going to go through the same check point to head into the city and do some work... maybe I'll find another check point.

I luffs my forward facing position lamps. :first: Photos to come later, GiJoe has them on his camera.

[Gremlin]

Last time I checked they were classified under "gay" and "rice".
Gosh... didn't see those words in all the laws and regulations I read? Wonder what you are reading. Its not really for showing off. Visibility and backup at night. Perfect for the job.

I'm.

So.

Screwed.

:weep:
What are you whinging about... so we spilt a thimble of fuel because a line disconnected. No oil on your clothes, you should be ecstatic.

so are you fitting these to the front of the handguards?.I am thinking about tdoing this to the ol beemer which has a marginal electrical for commuting with headlight on,and calling them daylight running lamps,would be pretty easy to wire them via a relay so they would go off if headlamp was turned on .
Yes, the outside of the handguards, on the middle. Mine are forward facing position lamps, which makes them totally legal. Once some pics are up, you'll see for yourself. I'm totally happy with them.

Just fit some like Toto's, they're awesome.
Been thinking about doing something for a while now (as in, over a year). Had strips on my mind for months, after last weeks break in both filaments, I knew I had to sort something. Spots need somewhere to mount, to be honest, I really don't think I have the space, what with GPS, Radar, UHF Radio, heated grips controller, and I still have to figure out somewhere for the heated vest controller thats coming. On top of that, there's power draw, uh, I have a few accessories already. Must chase up KTM about what my alternator can handle... it could be a serious issue.

I run +90 bulbs, so don't actually need spots in corners (headlight being higher than on usual bikes also makes a big difference) and LEDs have a much much smaller power draw.

[Gremlin]

and here's GiJoe's blog with some pics

ignore her naked bits... and she isn't that dirty in real life, silly photos :innocent:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/1741-Lekky-tinkering-on-the-katoom-of-doom

[EJK]

V8 Vantage...


Audi R8...


Holden E2...



Now KTM?

[davereid]

Good work.

Anything that makes you more visible has to be a good thing.

If you can't be missed you won't be hit..

or summat.. or maybe not..

glad none of the grey smoke got out of the wires, cos once it gets out they dont work.

[Hinny]

Been reading up, as I reckon having a strip either side on the handguards could be useful. A, increase perception of size of bike to others on road, B, backup for when both filaments in your bulb blow at night :eek: (not perfect, but I guarantee better than nothing).

My first answer would be Daytime running lamps, however, the regs are clear they may not operate when dipped or main beam (aka headlamp) is in use.

I used to have spotlights fitted to my Pan. Brilliant at night with 300w of illumination.
The current draw was excessive and so I replaced them with Narva daytime running lights. I went for the oblong ones but they come in same small round format as old spots. Current draw is 0.4w for LEDs cf. 150w for the old spotlights.
They certainly fit the bill with increased perception and as headlight backup.
Rode from Taumaranui to Cold Kiwi, at night, with them as total illumination after blowing headlight fuse. Comparable illumination to dipped beam headlight.
These lamps come pre-wired and satisfy the legislation by dimming when lights switched on.
They give better indication of your presence, day and night.
Keep headlight off during the day hence no tailight running. Stop light becomes much more visible and following traffic is much more aware of your braking action.
Highly recommended.
Headlight only use; bikes tend to get lost with the increasing number of cars, following dumb advice, running headlights during daytime.

[FastBikeGear]

As several previous posters have noted in this thread it is illegal to have both Daytime Running Lights and head lights on at the same time....and of course it is a legal requirement to have your head light on at all time on a motorcycle so it is therefore illegal to have Daytime Running Lights fitted to a motorcycle. yes it is a dumb rule!

As someone has also pointed out you are allowed 'Position Lamps and headlights on at the same time. We import, distribute and market the very popular BikeVis Bullet positioning lamps.

For people who want to know more about the legality of 'Positioning Lamps' visit the relevant section on the LTSA web site here. (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/get-your-lights-right/get-your-lights-right.html#position)

Of course forward facing lights must be white or amber and lights other than your indicators are not allowed to flash. Blue lights are illegal - of course what is blue and what is white is a little debatable as many modern car lights have a fairly blue tinge to them.

The new 2nd Gen BikeVis bullet Positioning Lamps are twice as bright as the 1st Gen BikeVis Bullets and the light is an intense white with a very faint blue tinge.

Because the laws are confusing and not written specifically for bikes how they might be interpreted by different law officers and testing stations is no doubt a little variable, but so far none of our customers has encountered any legal hassles with the very popular BikeVis Bullets Positioning Lamps.

[Subike]

I initially thought this, until I found the piece which determined the difference between categories. Mandatory and permitted equipment, Section 2:
One or two lamps may be fitted to:
a) a motorcycle that does not exceed 1.5 m in width
b) a motorcycle first registered in New Zealand before 1 January 1978 that does not exceed 2 m in width.

oooh! I read that as exceeds 1.5m (ie, a wide bike...). They must be fitted to a bike exceeding 1.5m, may be fitted to a bike not exceeding 1.5m.




Trikes are classified as motor bikes, dont forget them .
a single headlamp lit trike without width markers could be a very dangerous animal to approach in the dark,
its rear wheels will jump out and bite you when you least expect it.
because you thought it was just a narrow bike , from seeing one headlight.

this is also the reason its a PIA when someone operates their car with a blown headlamp.
can also be mistaken for a bike,

[Marmoot]

Daytime running lamps, however, the regs are clear they may not operate when dipped or main beam (aka headlamp) is in use.

Say what?? :gob:

Edit: oh, ok, Daytime Running Lights != Position Lights.
I must've been thinking of Position Lights instead. Sorry, nothing to see, carry on.

I guess LED Strips can be classified as position lights too?

[Gremlin]

Say what?? :gob:

Edit: oh, ok, Daytime Running Lights != Position Lights.
I must've been thinking of Position Lights instead. Sorry, nothing to see, carry on.

I guess LED Strips can be classified as position lights too?
Haven't read back through the thread, but iirc, even cops were commenting on the laws being a bit silly. Basically (excluding specific regs) it comes down to what you call the lights. Position lamps and daytime running lamps are quite similar in their makeup.

I have LED strips on my handguards on the BMW, I class them as forward facing position lamps. It will go through a WOF within the week, and I can report back then. After previous talks already with the guys at VTNZ, they did need to double check the manual as they weren't used to that setup, but said yes, it's fine.

[scumdog]

As several previous posters have noted in this thread it is illegal to have both Daytime Running Lights and head lights on at the same time....and of course it is a legal requirement to have your head light on at all time on a motorcycle so it is therefore illegal to have Daytime Running Lights fitted to a motorcycle. yes it is a dumb rule!

As someone has also pointed out you are allowed positioning lamps and headlights on at the same time. We import, distribute and market the very popular BikeVis Bullet positioning lamps.

For people who want to know more about the legality of 'Positioning Lamps' visit the relevant section on the LTSA web site here.



I would like somebody to tell me what exactly constitutes a marking or a running or a daytime running light, what is the legal difference between them?.

Is there some form of description or is it based on their position or???

[FastBikeGear]

I would like somebody to tell me what exactly constitutes a marking or a running or a daytime running light, what is the legal difference between them?.

Is there some form of description or is it based on their position or???

From the LTSA web site:

"Position lamps are low wattage lamps on the front and rear of vehicles that show the outline of the vehicle. They are also known as ‘park lights’, ‘side lights’ and in the case or rear position lamps, ‘tail lights’."

"Daytime running lamps are optional lamps fitted to the front of a vehicle to make it easier to see in daylight. They have a low light output and are not bright enough to illuminate the road ahead of the vehicle."

So that is now perfectly clear, yeah right!

The key defining thing seems to be what you choose to describe them as and where they are positioned. Positioning lights are supposed to show the outline of the vehicle , so if you stick them directly under your headlight instead it may be hard to claim they are Position Lights.

The reality is that Steven Joyce didn't consider the requirement to have Motorcycle head lights on during the day when the legislation was introduced for Daytime Running Lights. Look I am not saying he is an idiot....it's just he does the same kind of things as an idiot.

[nzspokes]

As several previous posters have noted in this thread it is illegal to have both Daytime Running Lights and head lights on at the same time....and of course it is a legal requirement to have your head light on at all time on a motorcycle so it is therefore illegal to have Daytime Running Lights fitted to a motorcycle. yes it is a dumb rule!

As someone has also pointed out you are allowed 'Position Lamps and headlights on at the same time. We import, distribute and market the very popular BikeVis Bullet positioning lamps.

For people who want to know more about the legality of 'Positioning Lamps' visit the relevant section on the LTSA web site here. (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/get-your-lights-right/get-your-lights-right.html#position)

Of course forward facing lights must be white or amber and lights other than your indicators are not allowed to flash. Blue lights are illegal - of course what is blue and what is white is a little debatable as many modern car lights have a fairly blue tinge to them.

The new 2nd Gen BikeVis bullet Positioning Lamps are twice as bright as the 1st Gen BikeVis Bullets and the light is an intense white with a very faint blue tinge.

Because the laws are confusing and not written specifically for bikes how they might be interpreted by different law officers and testing stations is no doubt a little variable, but so far none of our customers has encountered any legal hassles with the very popular BikeVis Bullets Positioning Lamps.

I had seen your website and had been thinking of those. Is it the same legally for the rear? Had been thinking of fitting same to my top box.

[Gremlin]

I would like somebody to tell me what exactly constitutes a marking or a running or a daytime running light, what is the legal difference between them?.

Is there some form of description or is it based on their position or???
There is operation (DRL can't operate at same time as low or high beam) and position, but essentially, from reading the VIRM, there isn't a difference. Both include clauses in the event the lights take the form of LEDs (75% must be operational). Neither are specifically defined either (how far they can throw light, etc).

The only annoying thing is that inevitably at some point the rules will be more clearly defined, and suddenly you have to obey the new regs, even though you complied with the old ones fine.

I only use my positioning lamps when stationary at night, to give me light around the bike (and safety for approaching vehicles), but others may use them during normal riding.

[Marmoot]

OK, so the key word is " low wattage lamps on the front and rear of vehicles", meaning any LEDs would automatically be position lights :2thumbsup

[Gremlin]

OK, so the key word is " low wattage lamps on the front and rear of vehicles", meaning any LEDs would automatically be position lights :2thumbsup
Yeup :D (with the exception of placement around other lights perhaps - the intention of the law is to mark the outer points of bike)

Couple of pics of the strips I use (ignore Toto holding his head): http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=230268&d=1296283599
And on the BMW: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=246551&d=1315530313

[Hawk]

I have a led strip running on top of fly screen which is mounted above the headlight, it is switchable, (brighter than the headlight at night and may blind cagers). Ive passed a warrant with it and several police have passed me by without even a head turn. I think they relise the intention of it "to be more visible on the road"

[scumdog]

I have a led strip running on top of fly screen which is mounted above the headlight, it is switchable, (brighter than the headlight at night and may blind cagers). Ive passed a warrant with it and several police have passed me by without even a head turn. I think they relise the intention of it "to be more visible on the road"

Pretty much the same as normajeane and I, the lights are switched off at night, they are only there to help make us more visible during the day.:yes:

[rastuscat]

The new 2nd Gen BikeVis bullet Positioning Lamps are twice as bright as the 1st Gen BikeVis Bullets and the light is an intense white with a very faint blue tint.

I had some Gen 1s on a previous bike, now sold. Best described as underwhelming. I was quite disappointed.

Really easy to fit, but as bright as a very dull button during the day. Nice at night, but that wasn't why I bought them.

Probably my fault for buying the wrong thing.

I'll be doing some of Gremlins strip LEDs.

[Gremlin]

Hit a rather interesting issue. My forward position lamps fail WOF, but only due to quantity.

A motorcycle may be fitted with 2 (and I have 2), except the VIRM has no section on park lamps, and therefore, park lamps may not be fitted. The BMW (and I assume many others) is factory fitted with one small park lamp, the manual lists it etc. Spoke to NZTA, a "senior" insisted I couldn't talk to anyone higher, but loved repeating out sections of the manual to me, acting like a drone and saying if you've fitted extra lights, and it fails, then they must be removed, blah blah.

The inspector simply classed the park lamp as a position lamp, hence I had 3, and failed.

I'll take this further, because the only concession I could get out of her, was to send them the details and photos, and they'll investigate. Because the strips seem to have increased in popularity, I'm happy to spend a bit of time on this (ideal would be they simply add a clause into the VIRM for park lamps). If anyone can get speak to someone higher than the "senior" I got, it would be appreciated, about the reasoning, or how they class the park lamp (the lady sidestepped my question on how park lamps comply with certification in the first place, if there is no clause). I don't need whole sections of the manual read out verbatim to me.

And the simple answer I guess, is remove the park lamp bulb, except in my case, the bike would throw errors at me, for the missing bulb. For now, since I need to comply by the weekend, I'll remove the strips, but will send a picture, plus the section out of the manual, to NZTA...

The irony in all this is the huge push to make motorcycles more visible, this is more effective than a haz vest hidden behind a screen, but you can't do it. :wacko:

[scracha]

So just how many Kiwis does it take to fit a light bulb :jerry:

[Berg]

Hit a rather interesting issue. My forward position lamps fail WOF, but only due to quantity.

A motorcycle may be fitted with 2 (and I have 2), except the VIRM has no section on park lamps, and therefore, park lamps may not be fitted. The BMW (and I assume many others) is factory fitted with one small park lamp, the manual lists it etc. Spoke to NZTA, a "senior" insisted I couldn't talk to anyone higher, but loved repeating out sections of the manual to me, acting like a drone and saying if you've fitted extra lights, and it fails, then they must be removed, blah blah.

The inspector simply classed the park lamp as a position lamp, hence I had 3, and failed.

I'll take this further, because the only concession I could get out of her, was to send them the details and photos, and they'll investigate. Because the strips seem to have increased in popularity, I'm happy to spend a bit of time on this (ideal would be they simply add a clause into the VIRM for park lamps). If anyone can get speak to someone higher than the "senior" I got, it would be appreciated, about the reasoning, or how they class the park lamp (the lady sidestepped my question on how park lamps comply with certification in the first place, if there is no clause). I don't need whole sections of the manual read out verbatim to me.

And the simple answer I guess, is remove the park lamp bulb, except in my case, the bike would throw errors at me, for the missing bulb. For now, since I need to comply by the weekend, I'll remove the strips, but will send a picture, plus the section out of the manual, to NZTA...

The irony in all this is the huge push to make motorcycles more visible, this is more effective than a haz vest hidden behind a screen, but you can't do it. :wacko:
I have a direct phoneline to the person who sorts out this crap at NZTA. I shall give them a ring tomorrow and see what they say on the issue.

[Hinny]

My understanding was that motorcycles had to have headlights on or daytime running lights. I prefer the daytime running lights so the taillight is not lit and your braking actions are then much more noticeable. My LED's have an auto dim function, when the headlights are switched on, according to the manufacturers ( Narva ) to comply with the law.
Have never had a problem with WOFs. Never had a problem with WOFs when I had spot lights fitted in the same position. I classed these as position indicating lamps or daytime running lamps for daytime use - no headlight/no taillight. Brilliant at night with 350w of illumination.

[Gremlin]

My understanding was that motorcycles had to have headlights on or daytime running lights.
Correct. Position Lamps do not have the same requirement as DRL (daytime running lamps), ie, to not be on when headlights are on. The VIRM also doesn't differentiate the make up of DRLs vs Position Lamps, just what you call them (and they meet the rules for that type - which are quite similar).

Remember also, that motorcycles are now required to have their lights on at all times (not sure if this is headlamp only, or headlamp and tail lamps).

[Hinny]

Correct. Position Lamps do not have the same requirement as DRL (daytime running lamps), ie, to not be on when headlights are on. The VIRM also doesn't differentiate the make up of DRLs vs Position Lamps, just what you call them (and they meet the rules for that type).

Remember also, that motorcycles are now required to have their lights on at all times (not sure if this is headlamp only, or headlamp and tail lamps).

Pretty sure it is headlamps OR daytime running lamps.

[Gremlin]

Pretty sure it is headlamps OR daytime running lamps.
Yes... I did say that (and that is the law). Daytime Running Lamps and Position Lamps are two separate categories, with their own requirements. DRL has the rule of DRL OR main lights, position lamps do NOT.

[BMWST?]

i want to fit a "proper hella drl to the ol pd so i dont have to run the headlight all the time.I will position it directly above the headlight and it will be about the same width as the headlight.I will wire it through a relay so that as soon as the headlight goes on it will go off
Hella 1005 or 1008

[Hinny]

And if it's not then it certainly should be.
It would appear there are a number of people in LTSA/ whatever that have some very strange ideas about the recipe for making vehicles and roads safe.
I tend to think of them as Fuckwits who have gotten themselves into positions that they are ill equipped to handle.
There appears to be a myriad of regulations peculiar to NZ which make many vehicles illegal for NZ roads.
And then of course there is the dumbarse roadmarking debacle.
Feckin' great reflective arrows pointing the way around corners. Feckin great reflective signs that reflect close to 100% of your lights right back at you. Like having 2metre wide headlights on full shining right at you. This destrys your night vision, you have to dip your lights and then you can't see around the corner. Just Dumb. Designed for acetylene burning headlights.
And what sort of half-arsed brain decided it was a good idea to buy up thousands of gallons of yellow paint and plaster it across the country?
No passing lines around blind corners etc. If one needed to be told that was not a place to pass then clearly that one should not be in control of a motor vehicle.
Looking at the Tour de France we see a beautiful country, devoid of all the garbage that our roads and verges are contaminated with. NZ used to be a beautiful country until it got vandalised.

[Gremlin]

Uh... Hinny, if you wouldn't mind keeping this thread on topic?

I'm now reading the consolidation of the Vehicle Lighting 2004... rather interesting and now I'm intrigued by work lamps...

Apparently somewhere is a rule that if equipment is OE and unmodified, then it automatically complies etc. I've found some stuff hinting at that, but nothing definitive just yet.

[bikaholic]

Uh... Hinny, if you wouldn't mind keeping this thread on topic?

I'm now reading the consolidation of the Vehicle Lighting 2004... rather interesting and now I'm intrigued by work lamps...

Apparently somewhere is a rule that if equipment is OE and unmodified, then it automatically complies etc. I've found some stuff hinting at that, but nothing definitive just yet.The rear lighting columns on honda CRVs and ford focus on the pillars were higher than allowed at the time. The law was changed to allow them legally. Makes a mockery of previous issues with lights be no higher than 700mm or thereabouts.

[Gremlin]

The rear lighting columns on honda CRVs and ford focus on the pillars were higher than allowed at the time. The law was changed to allow them legally. Makes a mockery of previous issues with lights be no higher than 700mm or thereabouts.
Interesting. Guess that's why the current limit is 1.5m, but if the bodywork doesn't lend itself to that, you can go up to 2.1m. My GSA headlight is probably around the 1m mark, higher than most vehicles.

[scumdog]

The rear lighting columns on honda CRVs and ford focus on the pillars were higher than allowed at the time. The law was changed to allow them legally. Makes a mockery of previous issues with lights be no higher than 700mm or thereabouts.

Can anybody explain the amount of SUV/4X4 type vehicles getting around that are fitted with scuzzy looking lights mounted in their bumper - while they are already have factory fitted body mounted tail-lights that don't function??:blink:

[Berg]

Can anybody explain the amount of SUV/4X4 type vehicles getting around that are fitted with scuzzy looking lights mounted in their bumper - while they are already have factory fitted body mounted tail-lights that don't function??:blink:

That's to do with getting the proper angles of vision with 4x4s with the spare Tyre attached on the rear. The normal lights do not often comply with the 45° requirement so the lower bumper lights are fitted.

Spoke to somebody at NZTA about bike lights today. Hopefully they will be back to me later in the week.

[scumdog]

That's to do with getting the proper angles of vision with 4x4s with the spare Tyre attached on the rear. The normal lights do not often comply with the 45° requirement so the lower bumper lights are fitted.

Spoke to somebody at NZTA about bike lights today. Hopefully they will be back to me later in the week.

I thought that too - but I've seen the same set-up on vehicles without a spare-tyre mount on the rear-end.

[Gremlin]

Paging Berg to the thread... paging Berg?

Got any update from your contact?

[Berg]

OK, Gremlin reminded me about this thread (my senile old mind had forgotten:weird:)
My man suggested the intent within the lighting rule and the VIRM is that forward facing position lights "may" be fitted to motorcycles as long as they comply with the angular requirements.
He did say "strip" LEDs were not classed as a light within the rule (categorized as a cosmetic light due to the lights not being formed as a uniform modular unit) so did not comply as a forward facing position light.
Where the bike already has "park" lights it becomes a little grey as they are termed "forward facing position lights" even though they often do not comply as such. At this point you may have to "discus" that your forward facing position lights are there to illuminate the extremity of the bike as opposed to the factory light which is more of a stationary parking light but is factory fitted so cannot be removed. That bits as clear as mud and I've asked for it to be sorted (in our favor) in the next lighting rule update.

[muzzap]

FWIW, just passed a WOF with my vstrom that has BikeViz bullets installed (low on the forks) without issue at VTNZ. These are in addition to the factory position lamps either side of the headlights. Inspector also had no issues with Admore lighting strips/brake lights I've installed in the Givi v46 topbox.

[Gremlin]

Thanks Berg.

For LED strips, the VIRM states "Where a lamp comprises an array of light sources (eg LEDs), at least 75% of these must operate" indicating a, LEDs are fine, and b, an array of light sources, ergo, more than one source (a strip) so I'd argue they comply.

Reading the Vehicle Lighting Law 2004, there is no definition under position lamp as to what it's make up is. The inspector early this year had no problem with the LED strips being position lamps, but was classifying the park lamp as a position lamp as well, so 3 isn't allowed but 2 are. As you say, position lamps are meant to indicate presence and dimensions of vehicle, so the strips actually do this better.

Your stationary parking light is most likely meant to mean park lamp? I was told categorically that no such light was allowed on a motorcycle. I would recommend that park lamps be added to the motorcycle allowance under the proviso that it's OE and operates as originally intended (several categories of lights have this already). I was told that if it's not in the VIRM then it's not allowed, but I'm tempted to argue it's a park lamp and show the owners manual as proof.

I actually can't find anything (VIRM or Law) where it disallows park lamps...

At this rate tho, it may be easier just to go to somewhere not quite so picky...