Selling a race bike. Opinions?

[Tony.OK]

Ok so my bikes been for sale for a while now.

Have someone interested and wants to take it to a trackday to test.

My thoughts given that the bike has no insurance at all, is it unreasonable to expect full cash payment upon pickup (bike is being taken to another town) and if sale doesn't go ahead I charge a fee for using brand new rear slick and consumables?



That way if something happens either way I'm covered, or am I not being trusting enough?

I've not ever test ridden a racebike before buying, what do other people normally do?

[onearmedbandit]

Cash before it leaves your sight and deduct cost of damages/wear if sale doesn't go through. That would stand if it was a mate or a perfect stranger.

[Matt Bleck]

I think you are being fair.

[lukemillar]

Personally, I wouldn't let him take it, period! If he wants to take it, he can buy it.

There is still unforseen stuff - no matter how much you try and cover yourself. For example, he could be a complete muppet and over rev the engine on downchanges. Causes stress and wear to your engine, but you'll never know about it.

[Danger Dave]

Personally, I wouldn't let him take it, period! If he wants to take it, he can buy it.

There is still unforseen stuff - no matter how much you try and cover yourself. For example, he could be a complete muppet and over rev the engine on downchanges. Causes stress and wear to your engine, but you'll never know about it.

:stupid: no cash, no ride

[Tony.OK]

Personally, I wouldn't let him take it, period! If he wants to take it, he can buy it.

There is still unforseen stuff - no matter how much you try and cover yourself. For example, he could be a complete muppet and over rev the engine on downchanges. Causes stress and wear to your engine, but you'll never know about it.

Very good point!

[imdying]

My thoughts given that the bike has no insurance at all, is it unreasonable to expect full cash payment upon pickupPeople can only rape you if you let them. I vote don't let them. No cash, no bike.

[Kiwi Graham]

Difficult as it is when you want to sell imagine how difficult it would be to have a repair on your hands and no sale.

I think it would be fair to ask for all the money up front with an agreed deduction for consumables. As for internal damage I dont know how you could prove it was his 'over revving' that causes any probs later down the track.

I think the agreement should be along the lines of if it meets your description of the bike then the money stays in your hands. It doesnt need a whole track day to confirm this.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

what if a valve drops when on test, who pays for new engine? sure as hell he wouldnt stump up.
send him up the street on it for a short ride if he must, but fuck that. If he's not sure, the bike aint for him.

[lukemillar]

I think it would be fair to ask for the money up front with an agreed deduction for consumables. As for internal damage I dont know how you could prove it was his 'over revving' that causes any probs later down the track.

You couldn't prove it, but that is beside the point! That was just an example; the point was no matter what you put aside for consumables, there are always unknown factors.

If he wants to find out the bike runs ok, he could just as easily ride it up and down the street a couple of times. He really doesn't need to rag it round a track to discover that!

I find it on add request to begin with - Hands up all those here who took their current race/tracks bikes round the track before they committed to buying them?

[k14]

I'd tell him he either wants it or he doesn't. It runs and that's all he needs to know. A bike is a bike, if he wants it for track days then it will suit his purposes. If he wants it to win the nz superbike champs then he may be barking up the wrong tree (unless he is rossi) but you would have made that clear already. I can't see what he will gain by riding it at a track day that he can't have already. If he wants to see "what it is like to ride on the track" then I'd tell him its $1k running costs if he doesn't buy it.

[Murray]

I'm looking for a bike to ride on a track day, if he doesnt buy it can I show some interest and get it free for the day????


Don't do it!!

[White trash]

What sort of fuckin nancy would sell his race bike anyway?

[Tony.OK]

What sort of fuckin nancy would sell his race bike anyway?

You tell me:bleh: no I don't excuse health issues.

Nancy is my middle name by the way:msn-wink:

I'm starting to think this whole thing is turning into a drama.......maybe if the sun ever shone for long enough I'd have 2nd or 12th thoughts:niceone:

[NinjaNanna]

regardless of value $11,000 is a lot of money to both of you. For that sort of money I'd be inclined to take a day off work and personally take it to the trackday for them.

$500 non refundable deposit with a bank endorsed cheque for the balance in my hand before it goes on the track. He'd get one session to test it, you might be a nice guy and a make a few changes for them proir to session 2 then give him 3 laps, if he stays out he's bought it, if he doesn't want it he comes in.

If he crashes it he bought it, you may even be able to call in a favour to get a chaporone to follow him round the track, an independent 3rd party if you like just in case the thing goes bang unexpectedly.

Also if your there he's more likely to look after it, also the deal will be done while his adrenilin is still high.

[onearmedbandit]

From a buyers point of view, I sure as hell wouldn't be accepting just a 'blat up the street and back. I'm no racer but that isn't going to tell me what the bike responds like tipping into a high speed corner followed by heavy braking across a rutted section of track, then flicking it on it's ear left to right through a chicane. It isn't going to tell me what the suspension and brakes feel like after a number of hard laps. So I'd be expecting the opportunity to test the bike in it's intended environment.

From a sellers point of view, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be letting the bike out of my sight until the paperwork is complete. Anything from track abuse to actual stealing and replacing of parts could occur, and I'd be none the wiser. So if I couldn't convince the guy to buy it by accepting a 'blat up the street and back' then I'd draw up an agreement with the buyer and both of us would go to the track.

[Tony.OK]

From a buyers point of view, I sure as hell wouldn't be accepting just a 'blat up the street and back. I'm no racer but that isn't going to tell me what the bike responds like tipping into a high speed corner followed by heavy braking across a rutted section of track, then flicking it on it's ear left to right through a chicane. It isn't going to tell me what the suspension and brakes feel like after a number of hard laps. So I'd be expecting the opportunity to test the bike in it's intended environment.

From a sellers point of view, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be letting the bike out of my sight until the paperwork is complete. Anything from track abuse to actual stealing and replacing of parts could occur, and I'd be none the wiser. So if I couldn't convince the guy to buy it by accepting a 'blat up the street and back' then I'd draw up an agreement with the buyer and both of us would go to the track.

Ok just to add more to this......he's told me he wants to look at another bike before deciding, do I spend a day travelling and use consumables for a maybe sale?
that and if I go near the track with it, knowing my changes of heart i'll just ride it myself hahaa.

[cowboyz]

well... if it was me....

I would be taking the bike to the track.

Get him to stand in the stands while I rode the first session. if he likes what it looks like going past then he could have option to buy and he can pay up and we can swap places.

I wouldnt let a bike that has not been paid for out on the track.. or anywhere really. its just not a good idea.

(oh.. and dont bin it on the demo laps!)

[onearmedbandit]

Ok just to add more to this......he's told me he wants to look at another bike before deciding, do I spend a day travelling and use consumables for a maybe sale?
that and if I go near the track with it, knowing my changes of heart i'll just ride it myself hahaa.

How desperate are you to sell?

If you are in a position where you just want out, then you'll need to work together with the buyer to reach a compromise.

If you are in the position however where don't need the sale, tell him to go ride the other bike first then come back to you.

[wharfy]

I wouldn't buy a road bike without a test ride - But with a race/track bike all bets are off.
If you are really keen to sell it YOU take it to the track and do some demo laps for them.
But don't let them take it out before they buy it.

Will there be any paperwork ?
I paid cash for my race bike didn't even ask for a receipt - but I did get it from someone with a long history in the sport and a good reputation.

[Sensei]

Can the guy even ride / handle a big HP bike would be my first question , second I'd make him come to me at my closest track from my place & bring the full amount in cash to show he isn't just full of shit . As above do some laps yourself & then decide if you feel he is up to testing it from how he react's from what he see's you do on it . Cash up front tho if he takes it out on the track . No if's or but's

[SWERVE]

If the seller is serious he will have done some research into the bikes history and owner(s) within the race fraturnity............. lets face it its a small number of people in NZ and info wouldn,t be hard to gain.
If it were me buying i would attend a trackday that the seller was attending already (not make them do it especially) watch the seller do some sessions.......... hand over the cash and take it out on a qiuck but safe session at end of day to just feel if it was ok & there were no "awful hidden probs"
When you buy a "race" bike you do your homework - decide what you want - and dont expect any warranty.............. there are some "rogues" in the sport but everyone knows who they are!

[Tony.OK]

Now he's told me he's wanting to still look at another bike as well, I don't really want to have to pay for a track day, waste my rubber etc if its not sort of definate.

[slowpoke]

Farkin' tuff one bro, it's hard work selling race bikes these days.

I dunno what the other bike is but yours is still fresh from Ozzy layin' his luvverly soft hands on it to do the top end service, new clutch, dyno sheet showing it's plenty healthy, an HRC spec sheet as long as your arm, and some lap times by Hayden Fitzgerald that at the time only a handful of the best riders in NZ could beat.....what more needs to be proved? "Seeing how it feels" doesn't quite cut it for me as each rider sets their bike up differently anyway.

It's a Honda with a proven race history all over the world, not a ferkin' Bimota Tesi , so it's a known quantity.

The test ride may just do the trick....but it could get ugly in soooo many ways. Glad I'm not in your shoes mate.

[NinjaNanna]

Now he's told me he's wanting to still look at another bike as well, I don't really want to have to pay for a track day, waste my rubber etc if its not sort of definate.

Sounds like a tire kicker to me - tell him the bike will be there to look at when he's looked at all the others. I probably wouldn't waste my time to be a maybe in a 3 bike race.

Also the only thing you need to pay for is your time to get to the track day, you'd have $500 non refundable to cover other expenses.

[tigertim20]

being a racebike, I dont think a potential buyer would need to do any more than a quick dyno run to see how its running, and a mechanic have a go over the rest. maybe a fe laps around the block.
trackday? fuck no.

[NinjaNanna]

being a racebike, I dont think a potential buyer would need to do any more than a quick dyno run to see how its running, and a mechanic have a go over the rest. maybe a fe laps around the block.
trackday? fuck no.

good point

[Kiwi Graham]

Now he's told me he's wanting to still look at another bike as well, I don't really want to have to pay for a track day, waste my rubber etc if its not sort of definate.

Sounds like he's lining a load of bikes up for his track day!

If he has done his home work he really only needs a couple of laps to satisfy himself the description fits the experience. You need to work with this guy to get your sale but you still need to protect yourself mate. Take it along yourself prep it and even ride it yourself (that is your investment in the sale). If he really is keen then its his turn for a few laps secured with the agreed purchase amount in cash or bank cheque.

I did however buy my bike without even seeing it, just asked lots of questions.

Good luck Tony

[feral1]

Hi ya tony,

there is a bit of advice here that is making stuff complicated, quasi contracts, prices for consumables, agreements etc

keep it simple. Race bikes are sold as is where is. What you got there is not a crumpled up mess. its a well sorted ex NZ superbike. its going to do what its meant to do (under the CGA). It could run spectucallary well for many more seasons, or it could blow up the next time you start it. whom would know.

you need to impress upon them that its sorted and presented well as it sits. its for sale. He can give the cash and take it away (cash upon taking it away).

Don't get hung up on making someones weekend wet dream come true for free on your bike. once they're on board, they are in control. remember that.

If he want to ride it, he can simply buy it.

I am a racer, and thats how i've purchased ex-race bikes. Hearing it run and perhaps hearing it go thro the gear box on a run up and down a residential street. that is all that is required. Even if i was selling to a fellow racer that was known to me, i would be coy to give em a free go.

It won't tell them anythign anyways (handeling/flickability) etc, as this will totally come down to set up and personal preference.

My two cents worth
Don't be taken for a ride mate :)

Eric

[Ivan]

Well I am onto my 3rd bike and none I have tested just brought after going and having a look myself,

Ok I test rode Jay Lawrences bike but that was beforeI brought it the 125 I mean they let me just have a go on one to see what I thought but my 600 I went heard it start visual inspection brought it and yeah same with my YZF450

[Tony.OK]

Ah well have spoken to buyer and its sorted now.......have agreed to wait till we can both be at a track, then it'll be a confirmed sale before any riding will be done.


Thanks all for the good advice etc....muchly appreciated. Hopefully this thread may help someone else thats as naive as moi.

Anyone want a great bike before it dissolves in my shed:msn-wink:

[froggyfrenchman]

Hmmm, If test rides are on the cards, then consider me a serious buyer!

[Tony.OK]

Hmmm, If test rides are on the cards, then consider me a serious buyer!

haha, haven't you already got half my bike:bleh:

[Pussy]

You tell me:bleh: no I don't excuse health issues.

Nancy is my middle name by the way:msn-wink:

I'm starting to think this whole thing is turning into a drama.......maybe if the sun ever shone for long enough I'd have 2nd or 12th thoughts:niceone:
Thanks for the next signature, Tony!! :)

[FROSTY]

Tony -I do this for a living -as does/did OAB.
At the moment your customer is just tyre kicking or is using the whole --"Ohh theres another one" as a negotiating tool against you.
I'm not dealing with him so its hard to comment.
Keep your eye on the prize ---that being the sale of your bike.
So what you need from the guy is commitment that he is buying the bike subject to condition X, Y and Z. Otherwise you could jump through a million hoops and still at the end of the day get " Ohh yea I'll think about it "
In your shoes this is how I would be doing things
To start with I'd be wanting a contract that says clearly.
Subject to a satisfactory test ride I will purchase your bike for $XXXX
I understand that if I crash the bike it is an automatic comitment to purchase.
I give you a holding deposit of $3000 as commitment to purchase.
The test ride to be one 20 minute session at a track day.
At the end of that session I will pay the balance owing of $7000 or expect a refund of my deposit in full.
How I would organise it is to take the bike to the track day and set it up. YOU do the first session to show what the bike is capable of.
At this point in time I'd suggest that if someone like Shaun is at the track that the bikes settings be adjusted to the buyers weight.
He then does his one full session.
You then either take the bike away or take the money away.
What will happen is the very moment the guy is forced to actually commit money to buying your bike you will know for certain if he's a tyre kicker or a genuine buyer.
By having posession of the bike YOU have control of matters and again it will eliminate the possibility he's a test pilot.
I think the risk to consumables is one you will have to take but given he's on the bike for only 20 minutes and all that with you watching him the risk is at a minimum.
it seems like a lot of hassle but keep in mind its $10000 we are talking about here. Thats a lotta days work.

As an aside I have NEVER test ridden any race bike before purchase. In actual fact the one on my bench at the moment I paid for in full months before I even saw the bike.

[froggyfrenchman]

haha, haven't you already got half my bike:bleh:

Er, um, no...
That is a factory speed triple fairing...

[jasonu]

Now he's told me he's wanting to still look at another bike as well, I don't really want to have to pay for a track day, waste my rubber etc if its not sort of definate.

Fuck him. He is a tosser!

[Shaun]

Fuck him. He is a tosser!


Agreed, that bike of TonY;s it is so worth the money he is asking for it, it could be sold in bits and make more for it over a little bit of time

[NinjaNanna]

well I wonder if the bloke is watching this thread? Odds are he probably is.

[gixerracer]

well I wonder if the bloke is watching this thread? Odds are he probably is.

Probably is if he is a tosser as most the motorbike tossers of the world live on this site:facepalm::yes::shit::innocent::bye:

[Mental Trousers]

Probably is if he is a tosser as most the motorbike tossers of the world live on this site:facepalm::yes::shit::innocent::bye:

Oh hi!!

[CTD]

like said earlier, can this guy even ride??
It could be some dreamer kid on a 250 ?

Tony, I have shown mild interest in your bike in the past and If I were going to buy it I wouldnt require a "test ride",but maybe thats just me.

[cowboyz]

like said earlier, can this guy even ride??
It could be some dreamer kid on a 250 ?

Tony, I have shown mild interest in your bike in the past and If I were going to buy it I wouldnt require a "test ride",but maybe thats just me.

I dont even think that comes into it. The guy might be geniune.. he might be a nice guy. he might be a very experienced rider..

I had been riding 15 years almost everyday and I crashed my own bike that Id done 60,000km on twice in 2 months.


shit happens.. dont give it oppourtunity!

[Blackflagged]

Cash before it leaves your sight and deduct cost of damages/wear if sale doesn't go through. That would stand if it was a mate or a perfect stranger.

Yer, Pays you for it, and test rides. Receipt says subject to 1 test ride. If any problem refund.

[NinjaNanna]

so what was the outcome?

[Tony.OK]

so what was the outcome?

Not the one I expected haha.

Was booked in to do the MotoTT day the other day to let him take it out for a session with the intent of buying, but a few days prior got an email saying he'd bought another bike.

Then outta the blue a fella from Christchurch rang up, made offer, accepted, money in overnight.....2 days later bike picked up by BikeTranz.........job done hahaa.

Lucky too as I was gettin itchy again, coulda been trouble for the wallet hehe.

End result was a good one.........simple,easy and fast:yes:

[NinjaNanna]

good result, glad to hear it.

Funniest thing would be if he ends up racing against the other guy and runs rings around him on your bike :)