What's your take on tax cuts/GST increase?

[FROSTY]

Ya know I for the life of me couldn't see the sense in the uber Gubberment cutting every working persons tax on one hand then increasing GST on the other. How on earth is it a benifit to me?
Sneaky buggers though aint they. Increasing gst gets all the tourists and has a bit more of a crack at new zealands "cash economy"
Whats your take in it??

[Juzz976]

Trying to kurb domestic spending, they're wanting to raise the retirement age and get rid or the super.

It also brings us closer to a more communist economy, those with money to spend will be taxed more so the government can turn around and give payouts to lower earners and families.

By the time I retire it will be my responsibility to ensure I have food and shelter, not the government its all tied up with the kiwi saver. If a person has not saved money or invested for their own retirement then they will have no choice but to continue to work until - a. they die, b. win lotto, c. sickness benefit.

My view anyhows, I'll be alright I plan to retire at 45.

[SMOKEU]

I think the aim of this was to give people a false sense of hope. These days it's rare to get something for nothing.

[steve_t]

Yeah, it's more user pays. The wealthy people who buy a new plasma tv every few years or a new Porsche will contribute more GST. It takes away tax from what you earn to tax more on what you spend.
I don't know if it's a benefit to you personally, Frosty, but hopefully it benefits the country as a whole.

[mashman]

Trying to kurb domestic spending, they're wanting to raise the retirement age and get rid or the super.

It also brings us closer to a more communist economy, those with money to spend will be taxed more so the government can turn around and give payouts to lower earners and families.

By the time I retire it will be my responsibility to ensure I have food and shelter, not the government its all tied up with the kiwi saver. If a person has not saved money or invested for their own retirement then they will have no choice but to continue to work until - a. they die, b. win lotto, c. sickness benefit.

My view anyhows, I'll be alright I plan to retire at 45.

I won't save my money. I'll spend it and hopefully when I die the kids can have the house. I'll live on fook all quite happily, have done it before, will do it again...

Your Step Dad has worked on the public trains for 43 years... 3 years longer than he should have. Somewhere along the lines the trains were privatised and the pension fund dissapeared... The govt can fuck off if they think i'm going to flog my ass off, any more than I already am, to pay for some rich cunt to get a massive pension...

My take, it's got nothing to do with the economy, it's all to do with giving "you" a well earned tax break and offsetting that tax break against GST. They're just a bunch of socially challenged money robbing/grabbing bastards... factor in that that 9/10's of the population actually believe that these guys have our best interests at heart and you can see why they would implement policies like this... pointless.

as you were :nono:

[neels]

Just a redistribution of how the tax is paid. Makes no difference to the overall amount of tax they collect.

The people probably most advantaged are those on high incomes with huge mortgages and fuck all disposable income, as they get the tax cuts but aren't spending the money so don't pay the increased GST. Then buy another rental property with the extra tax cut money, get more of a tax refund on the loss from the rental property, pay even less tax. :niceone:

[Juzz976]

Yeah, it's more user pays. The wealthy people who buy a new plasma tv every few years or a new Porsche will contribute more GST. It takes away tax from what you earn to tax more on what you spend.
I don't know if it's a benefit to you personally, Frosty, but hopefully it benefits the country as a whole.

Most rich people claim back their GST as they generally direct a business which can pay for most of their wants and needs. Its a descrimination tax,

'you want to buy food for your family, wtf you better give the government some more $ first. Oh excuse me I didn't realise you were rich, heres your money back.'

[steve_t]

Most rich people claim back their GST as they generally direct a business which can pay for most of their wants and needs. Its a descrimination tax,

'you want to buy food for your family, wtf you better give the government some more $ first. Oh excuse me I didn't realise you were rich, heres your money back.'

Apart from wealthy restaurant/cafe owners, which businesses get to claim GST back on their food? Anyone who claims back the GST on their wants and needs had better hope they don't get audited by the IRD. I got told the other day that some farmer wanted to write off their spa pool as a luxury water trough - haha... good luck with that

[aprilia_RS250]

IRD gets it money from the following

19% of gov't taxes come from GST.
43% from individual income taxes.
17% from corporate taxes.

so....
Corp rate dropped from 30% to 28%, -2%

If top personal rate -5%
Second top tranche -3%
Third top tranche -3.5%
Lowest tax rate -2.5%.

But GST went up 2.5%.


So you cut 43% of your revenue by say 4% (depending on how many people pay in each bracket)
17% of corp taxes by 2%
Only to increase the 19% proportion by 2.5%....
Where does the wealth transfer from, from tax receiver to tax payer


clear as mud:niceone:

[cowboyz]

Apart from wealthy restaurant/cafe owners, which businesses get to claim GST back on their food? Anyone who claims back the GST on their wants and needs had better hope they don't get audited by the IRD. I got told the other day that some farmer wanted to write off their spa pool as a luxury water trough - haha... good luck with that

farmers are rogues! with the lack of 'small communities' and everything beign electronic nowadays i would say the R&M bill for most farmers is alot less than it used to be!

[Juzz976]

Apart from wealthy restaurant/cafe owners, which businesses get to claim GST back on their food? Anyone who claims back the GST on their wants and needs had better hope they don't get audited by the IRD. I got told the other day that some farmer wanted to write off their spa pool as a luxury water trough - haha... good luck with that

You'd be surprised at what gets claimed on, $500,000 boat, entertaining clients.
Trip to fiji - conference... and so on.
They may only pay themselfs SFA but all they need to buy is Food and even then half of that is supplied by their business.
They still get all the toys they need, my business will Want, a new sign...maybe a mazda rx7 with a sticker on it and $10,000 of work on the engine so the sign doesnt fall over, and I'll have my GST back thanks and tax free petrol.

[steve_t]

You'd be surprised at what gets claimed on, $500,000 boat, entertaining clients.
Trip to fiji - conference... and so on.
They may only pay themselfs SFA but all they need to buy is Food and even then half of that is supplied by their business.
They still get all the toys they need, my business will Want, a new sign...maybe a mazda rx7 with a sticker on it and $10,000 of work on the engine so the sign doesnt fall over, and I'll have my GST back thanks and tax free petrol.

I don't doubt there are accountants out there that will claim almost anything as they get their clients to sign a waiver removing any culpability from the accountant.
Overseas airfares don't contain GST.
Business owners still need to (try to) pay themselves at market rate or the IRD has words.
An RX7 as a business vehicle will incur a reasonable amount of Fringe Benefit Tax.

Aside from me being pedantic, I do see what you're trying to say and you're right. A lot of business owners are getting away with far too much crap claiming!!

[FROSTY]

Mind you dya remember that story about the bunch of mates that went to the pub??
Thing is if theres no incentive for those "fat cats" to keep their organisations based in New Zealand they will -(and lets be honest Have) gone offshore. Then who loses ?
It isn't as simple as just tax. Those people if they can affford a $500000 launch most likely employ at least 6 staff and contribute to the economy. Yea maybee directly they don't contribute as much tax but I bet the boat sales company is happy. The travel agent got an ok comission. The nice food place he eats at can pay their staff.
Take those guys out of the pool and New Zealand I feel is well and truely worse of financially.
I wish the government had BETTER incentives for the likes of F and P to keep their manufacturing in NZ and telescum to keep their call centre based in Auckland etc.
Incidently Im a smaller employer and I am able to claim roughly $200 a month for cleaning expenses and coffee/tea for staff

[Swoop]

Start taxing religion.

[Madness]

Don't forget that ACC levies out of wages and salaries are going up too... :msn-wink:

[Clockwork]

IRD gets it money from the following

19% of gov't taxes come from GST.
43% from individual income taxes.
17% from corporate taxes.

so....
Corp rate dropped from 30% to 28%, -2%

If top personal rate -5%
Second top tranche -3%
Third top tranche -3.5%
Lowest tax rate -2.5%.

But GST went up 2.5%.


So you cut 43% of your revenue by say 4% (depending on how many people pay in each bracket)
17% of corp taxes by 2%
Only to increase the 19% proportion by 2.5%....
Where does the wealth transfer from, from tax receiver to tax payer


clear as mud:niceone:

Actually an increase from 12.5 percentage points (lets call them GST units) to 15 GST units represents a 16% increase in GST
ie
1% of 12.5 GST units = .125
2 /.125 = 16

Which is to say the Governement's GST take will increase by 16%

[Jonno.]

Most shops can't just charge 2.5% more on everything because deman will reduce. The contrary is true for removing tax from food. Supermarkets work out GST after they price things so it's not like everything's going to drop 12.5% or at least not for long.

[mashman]

Actually an increase from 12.5 percentage points (lets call them GST units) to 15 GST units represents a 16% increase in GST
ie
1% of 12.5 GST units = .125
2 /.125 = 16

Which is to say the Governement's GST take will increase by 16%

I googled percentage points, I didn't have a clue, so could be wrong. My sum could be wrong

15 - 12.5 = 2.5
(2.5/12.5) * 100 = 20% INCREASE.

I could be wrong. I hope they use percentage lol.

[rustic101]

IMO, I think its fantastic and the responsible approach for Govt to take. GST is actually a red hearing. Its completely dependant on individuals spending and discipline habits.

The message seems to be getting through to individuals about personal (financial) responsibility and financial literacy. Was reading today that Veda Advantage are reporting tighter spending control by individuals, more people moving away from credit cards and HP's.

The past Govt left this countries books in a shit state, right down to using ACC as a pseudo Welfare System. Their fiscal responsibility and spend, even in their dying stages of power was appalling. National are turning this around albeit slowly.

[Toaster]

Trying to kurb domestic spending, they're wanting to raise the retirement age and get rid or the super.

What peeves me off is THEIR pension plan never seems to get trimmed. About time these plonkers stopped lining their own pockets so much and did it harder like the rest of us. I am all for seeing their very generous perks cut.

[Mully]

Good for us.

Helping us smash the living shit out of the mortgage even faster.

[geoffm]

Don't forget that ACC levies out of wages and salaries are going up too... :msn-wink:

and of course - Muldoon and Cullen's best friend "Fiscal Drag". It is a sneaky move - tax cut is fiscally neutral at the intro, but inflation this year is forecast to be 5%+. Over the next few years, wages will increase as prices increase - but tax brackets aren't indexed, so the income tax increases and meantime GST is self correcting being a percentage of the cost. In a short time, the tax cut is claed back - plus the GSt increase as well.
:angry::angry::angry:

[Cayman911]

The way i see it.

Rich : pay 2.5% more gst. save alot more tax because they pay alot of tax because they earn alot.

medium to poor : pay 2.5% more gst. tax thing isnt a big issue as its made to be because you dont earn that much, so you're either worse off or the same.

student : pay 2.5% more. tax thing makes no difference to you

kind of a rich get richer poor get poorer scenario

[rustic101]

Saw this and though it was a great explanation of our tax system:

This little gem might help some of you understand the tax system better, but only if you want to!

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh would pay $7.

The eighth would pay $12.

The ninth would pay $18.

The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that’s what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.”Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share? They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).

The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 ( 22% savings).

The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

“I only got a dollar out of the $20,”declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,” but he got $10!”

“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!”

“That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!”

“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

[p.dath]

All they are trying to do is encourage saving. We have shifted to a borrow and spend economy, and it's just going to be stable long term.

[p.dath]

You are correct, GST is rising 20% from 12.5% to 15%.

[schrodingers cat]

You are correct, GST is rising 20% from 12.5% to 15%.

To you the consumer, if you buy a $1000 item, after the GST increase it will cost you $1020.

Not really the end of the world is it?

Certainly wouldn't make me rush out to buy consumer goods as the fear mongers are suggesting.

[p.dath]

To you the consumer, if you buy a $1000 item, after the GST increase it will cost you $1020.

Not really the end of the world is it?

Certainly wouldn't make me rush out to buy consumer goods as the fear mongers are suggesting.

I'm not perturbed by it. I think the GST rise is good. In fact I would support an even stronger move to consumption based taxing.

I've just pre-purchased a whole lot of electricity. Might as well enjoy some of that saving.

[Dave Lobster]

Start taxing religion.

Sounds good. :)


I think the aim of this was to give people a false sense of hope. These days it's rare to get something for nothing.

And if we tax religion, false hope would soon be costing even more :)

[scumdog]

Don't want to lose NZs position in the 'highest taxed countries' list, do we?:nono:

[scumdog]

To you the consumer, if you buy a $1000 item, after the GST increase it will cost you $1020.

Not really the end of the world is it?

Certainly wouldn't make me rush out to buy consumer goods as the fear mongers are suggesting.

Pinging ya Grab Snatch & Take for a car ya bought in another country suck big-time!

[Forest]

To you the consumer, if you buy a $1000 item, after the GST increase it will cost you $1020.

Not really the end of the world is it?

Certainly wouldn't make me rush out to buy consumer goods as the fear mongers are suggesting.

An item that costs $1,000 incl GST at 12.5% would actually cost $1,022.22 incl GST at 15%.

But I otherwise agree with you.

[schrodingers cat]

An item that costs $1,000 incl GST at 12.5% would actually cost $1,022.22 incl GST at 15%.

But I otherwise agree with you.

Shit! That extra 22c is the tipping point! I'm off to buy a big fuck off flat screen tv and a new car. I think I'll put in on my credit card and pay it off at the minimum monthly rate. I'm saving big now...



Seriously - cheers for the reminder of how the math actually works :-)

[AD345]

Don't want to lose NZs position in the 'highest taxed countries' list, do we?:nono:

Tsk

don't buy into the propaganda. We do pretty fucking well

2005 data

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg/800px-Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg.png

[geoffm]

Tsk

don't buy into the propaganda. We do pretty fucking well



That is income tax only, so indirect taxes aren't included and are a significant hit. I wonder what it would be as a % GDP and % wages?
The other side is that most wage earners only care about the after tax income and what it can buy. In NZ, that is not much.

[pete376403]

Even at 15% GST we're still better off than a lot of countries, esp those is the EU.

chart near the end of this article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax

[schrodingers cat]

I wonder what it would be as a % GDP and % wages?


I've often wondered how much of my wages ends up as tax in one form or another. Im guessing its a good 50%

I guess I should just be grateful to have a job...

[Swoop]

Even at 15% GST we're still better off than a lot of countries, esp those is the EU.
But... we don't live in the EU (thank fuck).
I'm still trying to find out why primary produce like cheese and meat is so bloody expensive here.

[aprilia_RS250]

Actually an increase from 12.5 percentage points (lets call them GST units) to 15 GST units represents a 16% increase in GST
ie
1% of 12.5 GST units = .125
2 /.125 = 16

Which is to say the Governement's GST take will increase by 16%

So OK in relative terms then....
19% of gov't taxes come from GST.
43% from individual income taxes.

GST revenue increases by 20%, so 19% * 20% = 4% increase in actual revenueIncome Personal rates drop by:
Top 35/38 = -8%
2nd 30/33 = 10%
3rd 17.5/21 = -17%

Say average drop in gov't revenue from lowering personal rates is 12%. So 43% * 12% = 5% decrease in revenue.

You're still better off with tax cuts....

Remember the government is run by muppets. Always will be. It's inefficient because it doesn't have any incentive systems put in place to decrease costs and increase level of service, like a private business does in order to compete and grow. Tax is seen as a drag on growing standards of living because that money you put into gov't coffers a large chunk of that is wasted. Many economic studies have been done on tax, all of them show the negative correlation of living standard increasing to lowering the tax rate.

[scumdog]

I've often wondered how much of my wages ends up as tax in one form or another. Im guessing its a good 50%

I guess I should just be grateful to have a job...

In a simplistic way:

Income tax at lower rate is 'about' 23% (or have things changed?)
GST soon to be 15%

So if you're on the lower tax bracket then 38% of what you earn is soon to go on those two taxes alone I guess??

And if you're paying 33% PAYE....

[scumdog]

But... we don't live in the EU (thank fuck).
I'm still trying to find out why primary produce like cheese and meat is so bloody expensive here.

'Cos they can get so much money selling it overseas?

("So why sell it cheap here when I can get so much more by exporting it?" is the line of thought, ergo we pay the overseas price...)

[Swoop]

("So why sell it cheap here when I can get so much more by exporting it?" is the line of thought, ergo we pay the overseas price...)
Scarily enough... :yes:

[mashman]

'Cos they can get so much money selling it overseas?

("So why sell it cheap here when I can get so much more by exporting it?" is the line of thought, ergo we pay the overseas price...)

Have you noticed the ad for the lamb producer (silverfernfarms I think), who are now offering the best cuts of lamb to the NZ public... WTF!!! so you were paying the same price as the EU, but the EU was getting the best cuts and you were getting what was left... Aye, ye look after yer own eh!!!

[NighthawkNZ]

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/8019311/union-economist-decries-tax-changes/

As per and accordance with.. the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...

Plus ETS which puts fuel then freight and the price of living up then you add 15% GST (price of my living going way up more than my so called tax cut...)


told yah...

[steve_t]

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/8019311/union-economist-decries-tax-changes/

As per and accordance with.. the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...

Plus ETS which puts fuel then freight and the price of living up then you add 15% GST (price of my living going way up more than my so called tax cut...)


told yah...

The 'union economist' needs to be directed to post #24 of this thread.

"The tax cuts will benefit earners in proportion to their salaries, with high earners reaping the biggest gains." Well, duh. The biggest gains will be had by the people that pay the most tax... (enter people whining about how rich people avoid taxes by using trusts or claim tax deductions on their personal shit).

I like how even the union economist is complaining how the benefits will be in "proportion" to their salaries. Since the income tax a person pays is proportional to their salaries, the tax cuts will benefit those who pay the most tax. Easy.

Scumdog is right about the meat, dairy, fruit exports. The same products sell for over 3x as much in overseas countries compared to here.

[Banditbandit]

It's just a money-go-round. The Govt is taking it different waya and collecting it in different ways ...

They say it will allow people to save .. yeah right!!! Only the very rich ... I'll get around 20 bucks extra a week .. and pay out more in GST ...

Poor people wil be hit as they will get a minimal rise in income and a larger rise in spending because of GST ...

They say it will be fairer .. can't see that . rich people will get $60 a week more .. poor people get shat on ... and their spending will increase as GST goes up ...

And why save? Sure a savings account at the bank is good .. but investments and super funds are a poor risk .. they fall over ...

So for me, when I buy cigs, coffee and petrol I will be pissed off paying more because I see that ... but over all I'll be about the same ... but that won't be in my face every day like the GST increase wil be ...

[aprilia_RS250]

They say it will be fairer .. can't see that . rich people will get $60 a week more .. poor people get shat on ... and their spending will increase as GST goes up ...

Do you believe someone picks out a number from a hat and determines how much you'll earn hence why taxing the rich more than poor is fair?

So to you it's unfair a doctor spent 10 years off hard study/practice, put them selves in 100k of debt and now they "unfairly" receive a 200k salary? Where say a secretary did a typing course and does admin work for her boss and only gets 40k....

[Waxxa]

The majority of us will be worse off.

I have already worked out that I will be approx. $24 worse off per week than what I am now after introducing the tax cuts (I will be able to calculate properly once I see the tax cut, just working on figures out in the public at the moment).

Rent has increase, rego for the bike of course, bike insurance is going up and that hasn't included what the price of my groceries will come too, ETS hitting the fuel cost, increase on workers ACC levies, power, gas and water is going up...these are just the stables! A raise in inflation next year...will wages increase?

If the tax cut was $100 or more we might be able to cover costs and save but not on a $15-$25 a week tax cut.

[schrodingers cat]

In a simplistic way:

Income tax at lower rate is 'about' 23% (or have things changed?)
GST soon to be 15%

So if you're on the lower tax bracket then 38% of what you earn is soon to go on those two taxes alone I guess??

And if you're paying 33% PAYE....

Rego, Rates, Tax on fuel, Tax on Alcohol... Feel free to add more

[p.dath]

The majority of us will be worse off.

I have already worked out that I will be approx. $24 worse off per week than what I am now after introducing the tax cuts (I will be able to calculate properly once I see the tax cut, just working on figures out in the public at the moment).


You do understand GST is a consumption tax, and is there to discouarge spending and encourage saving?

[schrodingers cat]

You do understand GST is a consumption tax, and is there to discouarge spending and encourage saving?

Disagree. It is a very difficult tax to avoid and this is its attraction to politicians. Eventually even the cash you have (off the books) spirited away will get nibbled at

[Indiana_Jones]

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/jew-bwa-ha-ha.gif

-Indy

[Forest]

I have already worked out that I will be approx. $24 worse off per week than what I am now after introducing the tax cuts (I will be able to calculate properly once I see the tax cut, just working on figures out in the public at the moment).


If you want to know the change in your tax, go to the following site:

http://www.taxguide.govt.nz/

[Marmoot]

Disagree. It is a very difficult tax to avoid and this is its attraction to politicians. Eventually even the cash you have (off the books) spirited away will get nibbled at

Assuming living standard is the same (e.g., what you buy each month remains the same) before and after 1st October 2010, and you are earning income subject to PAYE:
- a cut in PAYE (personal tax) gives you more into your pocket at the time of payslip.
- an increase in GST adds a 2.5% amount to what you buy, essentially adding 2.5% to your living cost.

Now, assuming that before the 1st October you spend 50% of your income on things you buy, 40% of your income on non-GST items (mostly Mortgage or Rent), and 10% you save.
- The 2.5% GST increase would only apply to the 50% of your income.
- The 40% spent on income remains unaffected (or it is actually now less than 40% since your income pool increases due to the personal tax cut = more money in your pocket).
- The 10% amount of unused money now increases as you have more money in your pocket.

So, for people having a large portion of their income subject to no-GST (mortgage, rent, savings, etc), they would be better off.
In essence, this should help us getting homes (mortgage) or save.

If you had been spending 100% of your income to buy things (no mortgage, rent-free life), then you won't be better off. But this situation should be rare, or in a lot of cases involves financial illiteracy or hardcore consumerism lifestyle (e.g., "keeping up with the joneses", "living like there's no tomorrow", etc) which should be discouraged anyway.

Government simply has to do that since the cost of running the country (infrastructure building, bureaucracy cost, etc) remains the same. It just tries to get "those who spend" to pay for it, and allows a little leeway to everyone (again: mortgage, rent, savings). It is part of recirculating the money in stagnant economy (recession).

However, the above is an ideal situation.
In reality, a lot of retailers now think "these people just have a tax cut. And we haven't been able to increase our prices in a year due to recession! Now they have some money, we can increase the prices. Better yet, let's use "GST Increases" as an excuse".
So, off they go increasing the prices of items by a whallopping amount.
What was 50% you spend on these items suddenly becomes 65% because the prices on the individual items increased despite the amount you buy remains the same.

You're worse off.

Is this the government's fault?

In theory, no. They have put the law into place, and they have warned the retailers that anyone exploiting the situation may be liable for prosecution.

However, retailers have smart lawyers. In the court, they would argue the increases are "not due to GST increases". Weak case gets thrown out although there may be one or two retailers made as examples.

So, who ruined it?
Ourselves. The greedy bunch that increased the prices, and the lawyers that defend them.
No realistic measures can be put by the government unless we want to go into dictatorship-like temporary price freeze, which is against the freedom and democracy nature of our proud country.

[Banditbandit]

Do you believe someone picks out a number from a hat and determines how much you'll earn hence why taxing the rich more than poor is fair?

No, not at all ...

I certainly think that taxing the rich more than the poor is fairer. But then I grew up in a more socialist New Zealand. Our social welfare system was set up to help people who needed it. The changes to the system since it was introduced means that people are getting Government help who do not need it - such as the superannuation fund for all - and therefore the system is costing us more than it needs to, and our taxes are high to pay for an unsustainable system ...

That's not helped by a level of unemployment with a consequent higher level of people who need help ..

But the 1930 Labour architects of the social welfare system would be horrified at what it has become ... The intent was higher taxes for high earners is taxing the people with a surplus to help people in need ... a fair system. Currently we are paying peple out of the welfare system WHO DO NOT NEED IT.


So to you it's unfair a doctor spent 10 years off hard study/practice, put them selves in 100k of debt and now they "unfairly" receive a 200k salary? Where say a secretary did a typing course and does admin work for her boss and only gets 40k....

No, in our current system I don't think that is unfair at all. I can conceive of a fairer system overall - but in our current system that's how it works ...

[Banditbandit]

No realistic measures can be put by the government unless we want to go into dictatorship-like temporary price freeze, which is against the freedom and democracy nature of our proud country.

Hell .. the Muldoon Government of the late 1970s and early 80s did just that - wage AND price freezes

[Marmoot]

Hell .. the Muldoon Government of the late 1970s and early 80s did just that - wage AND price freezes

Just because someone has done it doesn't make it right/desirable/prudent and doesn't mean we should do it again.

For example, would you also agree with Muldoon's 20% surcharge on boats and caravans and 40% sales tax on music sales?

In addition, situations between Muldoon era and 2010 are massively different. Add to that the fact that Muldoon did not have to deal with economic recession to the current scale.

[Banditbandit]

Just because someone has done it doesn't make it right/desirable/prudent and doesn't mean we should do it again.

For example, would you also agree with Muldoon's 20% surcharge on boats and caravans and 40% sales tax on music sales?

In addition, situations between Muldoon era and 2010 are massively different. Add to that the fact that Muldoon did not have to deal with economic recession to the current scale.

No I certainly would not suggest we do it again .. Muldoon turned out to be an absolute disaster .. I was simply pointing out that, against your suggestion that NZ was a free and democractic country, within recent history such measued had actually been used in our free and democratyic country ... which shows we do not have a proud history of such ..

[Marmoot]

No I certainly would not suggest we do it again .. Muldoon turned out to be an absolute disaster .. I was simply pointing out that, against your suggestion that NZ was a free and democractic country, within recent history such measued had actually been used in our free and democratyic country ... which shows we do not have a proud history of such ..

Ah, friend :)
If you dig deep enough, you can always find some bones.
We are only human.
Let's look at the larger picture, as an average, or Root Mean Square style analysis (if you're an engineer).

[FROSTY]

Disagree. It is a very difficult tax to avoid and this is its attraction to politicians. Eventually even the cash you have (off the books) spirited away will get nibbled at
Ya wanna explain that one to me?--sorry I genuinely don't get it.
To me if ya don't spend it then you don't pay gst on it.

[mashman]

So, who ruined it?
Ourselves. The greedy bunch that increased the prices, and the lawyers that defend them.


I disagree. If the banks didn't offer CREDIT, then we wouldn't be able to buy things that we can't afford... all it does is run up a national debt that we're all held accountable for through taxation. It's bullshit! and has nothing really to do with us and all to do with profit maximisation.

+1 on the lawyers though

[mashman]

Ya wanna explain that one to me?--sorry I genuinely don't get it.
To me if ya don't spend it then you don't pay gst on it.

Staples like fuel, electricity, food, council service charges etc... all have GST on them, the things you really can't avoid.

[Banditbandit]

Ah, friend :)
If you dig deep enough, you can always find some bones.
We are only human.
Let's look at the larger picture, as an average, or Root Mean Square style analysis (if you're an engineer).

No sorry - you'll hate me .. I'm a Philosopher of Religion ...

[Marmoot]

I disagree. If the banks didn't offer CREDIT, then we wouldn't be able to buy things that we can't afford... all it does is run up a national debt that we're all held accountable for through taxation. It's bullshit! and has nothing really to do with us and all to do with profit maximisation.

+1 on the lawyers though

Bank people are mostly us as well.

[Marmoot]

No sorry - you'll hate me .. I'm a Philosopher of Religion ...

I don't know. I am a religious philosopher myself. Cynical one too at that.

[NighthawkNZ]

Staples like fuel, electricity, food, council service charges etc... all have GST on them, the things you really can't avoid.

+ bank fees, interest, farting fees, and not forgetting our loving ACC... blah blah very soon there wil be more bartinging for trading...

[mashman]

Bank people are mostly us as well.

I'm talking about those who earn hundreds of thousands of $$$ (there are lots of these people and they work for overseas banks, wonder where they spend their wages and pay their taxes). This is a quite a serious problem for those on lower incomes, let alone small, honest businesses that are JUST earning a living, hoping that some day they can afford to stop and go and enjoy themselves. If you're earning near millions, you've just been given a bumper bonus from the govt. The size of bonus that'll more than offset GST. If you're that well off, you probably have what you really need anyway and anything else is just status (plus they'll be tightening their belts too).

[Marmoot]

I'm talking about those who earn hundreds of thousands of $$$

Yup. In the context of "us vs. the Government", those bankers are part of us :)

I.e., they are not the lawmakers/taxrulers, but they are part of the society that milks the situation.

[mashman]

Yup. In the context of "us vs. the Government", those bankers are part of us :)

I.e., they are not the lawmakers/taxrulers, but they are part of the society that milks the situation.

only the ones that are subject to the countries taxation laws. The Prime Minister is a banker :shifty:

[Banditbandit]

I don't know. I am a religious philosopher myself. Cynical one too at that.

I'm just cynical ... I think that just comes with age

[schrodingers cat]

Ya wanna explain that one to me?--sorry I genuinely don't get it.
To me if ya don't spend it then you don't pay gst on it.

What you originally said was "You do understand GST is a consumption tax, and is there to discouarge spending and encourage saving? "

You are correct that as you spend so you shall be taxed. However, when it was first introduced it was not with the function of encouraging spending but rather ensuring that the tax captured the governments 'share' of EVERY dollar spent.

Prior to that there were many many legal ways to avoid tax - as there still are.
Cash is often attractive to people as it avoids PAYE etc. However, eventually it falls but into the legitimate money go round and is taxed.
Every time it goes around there is another nibble.

Saving is an interesting thing. When you 'save' your money become availible for someone else to use(spend). In theory you get it back with interest (money paid to say 'thank you for allowing us to use your capital')

The government would like you to save so they can use your money on-shore rather than borrow it from off-shore (and therefore export our wealth)

[schrodingers cat]

So, who ruined it?
Ourselves. The greedy bunch that increased the prices, and the lawyers that defend them.
No realistic measures can be put by the government unless we want to go into dictatorship-like temporary price freeze, which is against the freedom and democracy nature of our proud country.

Won't the magical FREE MARKET make it all OK again?

[aprilia_RS250]

The government would like you to save so they can use your money on-shore rather than borrow it from off-shore (and therefore export our wealth)

This is incorrect and you're sort of also contradicting yourself simultaneously.

You're wrong in calling borrowing from o/seas an "export of wealth". Think of a local bank and you go in to borrow some cash to start up a business in order to acquire capital. Your business does well, you pay the loan off, and your business continues building wealth. Who has acquired the wealth here? Think local bank as o/seas loan market and your business as the NZ gov't. There is so much money you can accumulate locally that you must go offshore and get more in order to keep growing.

You're contradicting yourself by saying the gov't wants you to save because they want access to your funds via the workings of a banking system. If they wanted your funds it's much more effective collecting it via a direct tax such as GST rather than have it circulate with Aussie banks offshore where they may never see it again.

[schrodingers cat]

Why are they borrowing from these Aussie banks?

[Marmoot]

Won't the magical FREE MARKET make it all OK again?

Free Market would make it worse.
Cheaper prices presented by 3rd world countries would attract some of us and the money ended up spent elsewhere (instead of in NZ). In total, the money circulating in NZ becomes less, hence we become poorer. Both as a nation, as well as individually.

[pete376403]

I disagree. If the banks didn't offer CREDIT, then we wouldn't be able to buy things that we can't afford... all it does is run up a national debt that we're all held accountable for through taxation. It's bullshit! and has nothing really to do with us and all to do with profit maximisation.

+1 on the lawyers though

Banks HAVE to offer credit - it's the only thing they have to sell. Otherwise how do they pay interest to the depositors who put their money in the banks?

[aprilia_RS250]

Why are they borrowing from these Aussie banks?

The RBNZ is NZ's central bank. It's function is to offer financial stability for NZ i.e. money supply (inflation and deflation). Given most banks in NZ are aussie owned apart from kiwibank they are able to borrow and lend at unlimited volumes at rates equal to OCR from RBNZ. Say you go to Westpac to take a mortgage, you have a loan book trader who will go to RBNZ and borrow at OCR and lend the mortgage amount to you at some rate OCR + Margin %. This margin % is usually 2-4%, depending on how much risk you pose in defaulting. The profit they make ends up in aussie coffers. Hence if the gov't wanted more dough they'd directly tax you.

[Clockwork]

Ya wanna explain that one to me?--sorry I genuinely don't get it.
To me if ya don't spend it then you don't pay gst on it.

Yes, but whats the point in saving money unless you eventually intend to spend it?


+ bank fees, interest, farting fees, and not forgetting our loving ACC... blah blah very soon there wil be more bartinging for trading...

I don't think financial services such as Bank fees attract GST. To many wealthy people & businesses moving money around would get badly hit if it did.

[SPman]

Don't want to lose NZs position in the 'highest taxed countries' list, do we?:nono:
Where do people get this strange idea, that they're in the worlds top highly taxed list?
NZ is way down the list - around the middle!
It seems to be more a complaint by those who think ANY tax is too much! - but still want all the social infrastructure, health, education, etc etc......but don't want to pay for any of it.

The past Govt left this countries books in a shit state, right down to using ACC as a pseudo Welfare System. Their fiscal responsibility and spend, even in their dying stages of power was appalling. National are turning this around albeit slowly. What fucking universe do you actually live in? Endlessly repeating a factless mantra, doesn't make it true.

[NighthawkNZ]

I don't think financial services such as Bank fees attract GST. To many wealthy people & businesses moving money around would get badly hit if it did.

They may or may not either way i can guarantee they will put them up as well... (I can't remember what the tax is for bank fees but it is a serve so there is probably GST on it... and I can't remember what tax you pay on your interest either (With Holding tax or something)

Either way guarantee they will use this to hike them...

[MikeL]

But... we don't live in the EU (thank fuck).


So just remind me, which of the EU countries are below NZ in the OECD?

And have you ever actually spent any time living in one of those countries (not just passing through as a tourist and noticing only the arrogant waiters)?

I lived in Europe for a number of years in the 70s. Couldn't wait to get back to NZ - a paradise of fresh air, open spaces and cheap food. Gradually in the intervening time I've seen us throw away almost every single advantage we had over the Europeans. In several trips to France and Italy in recent years I've noticed that in almost every respect life is better there, provided you don't want to live in the big cities. It's going to take a lot of persuading to keep me in NZ now.

[Swoop]

So just remind me, which of the EU countries are below NZ in the OECD?.
Your comment regarding "a paradise of fresh air, open spaces" was more of the direction I was referring. The "environment" that we have here - laid back, uncrowded, rather than the economic. Sadly we are still the Banana Republic economically.[/QUOTE]

And have you ever actually spent any time living in one of those countries (not just passing through as a tourist and noticing only the arrogant waiters)?.
Five years actually.

[rustic101]

What fucking universe do you actually live in? Endlessly repeating a factless mantra, doesn't make it true.

Clearly not the same Universe as you. Your's appears to be smaller and oxygen starved! I'd recommend you move to a new planet or at least start taking your meds, you Fuck Pig (see its easy to to swear and be an arse hole).

At what point in my post did I 'endlessly repeat a fact-less mantra..'??

[mashman]

Banks HAVE to offer credit - it's the only thing they have to sell. Otherwise how do they pay interest to the depositors who put their money in the banks?

Absolutely. If you're printing money for free, it's a no lose situation... But at least they look after their clients... until people can't pay and then the debt is written it off and we all pay for it :)

[Max Preload]

I have already worked out that I will be approx. $24 worse off per week than what I am now after introducing the tax cuts (I will be able to calculate properly once I see the tax cut, just working on figures out in the public at the moment).I can't see how that's possible because if you expended your entire $1080/w after tax income on GST attracting supplies, you'd only then be $24 worse off and that's not accounting for the tax cut.

[Max Preload]

In reality, a lot of retailers now think "these people just have a tax cut. And we haven't been able to increase our prices in a year due to recession! Now they have some money, we can increase the prices. Better yet, let's use "GST Increases" as an excuse".
So, off they go increasing the prices of items by a whallopping amount.
Your argument is flawed. If they couldn't increase their prices because of a recession, meaning people just won't buy the goods, then blaming it on GST isn't going to override that.

Oh, and it's a 2.2% cost increase of goods to consumers due to the GST rise, not 2.5%.

[Max Preload]

They may or may not either way i can guarantee they will put them up as well... (I can't remember what the tax is for bank fees but it is a serve so there is probably GST on it... and I can't remember what tax you pay on your interest either (With Holding tax or something)

Either way guarantee they will use this to hike them...There is no GST on financial service charges - they are an 'exempt supply' - that means interest and bank charges do not carry GST. You pay resident witholding tax in lieu of income tax (interest you are paid is income). You get the difference back between what you paid in RWT on interest and what should be paid at the applicable marginal tax rate when you do your return.

[Marmoot]

Your argument is flawed. If they couldn't increase their prices because of a recession, meaning people just won't buy the goods, then blaming it on GST isn't going to override that.

Oh, and it's a 2.2% cost increase of goods to consumers due to the GST rise, not 2.5%.

Ummm....but that was not an argument? :facepalm:
And I'm not sure what you are trying to insinuate in your post.
Sounds like you are just trying to contradict posts for argumentative purposes?

[Mudfart]

poll on the MSN nz homepage yesterday..
"Do you intend to save the extra money you will get from tax cuts?"
2000 said no, 900 said yes.
I guess those 900 won't need to spend tax savings on extra fuel prices, and the extra GST.
I also figure the enitre 900 work for the grubbermint depts in varing capacities...
whereever MORONS are found, starting at management levels.

[Max Preload]

Ummm....but that was not an argument? :facepalm:
So you didn't make a claim and then try to support it with spurious reasoning? I'm pretty fucking sure you did. Let's have another look:

In reality, a lot of retailers now think "these people just have a tax cut. And we haven't been able to increase our prices in a year due to recession! Now they have some money, we can increase the prices. Better yet, let's use "GST Increases" as an excuse".
So, off they go increasing the prices of items by a whallopping amount.
Yep. Looks like you did.


And I'm not sure what you are trying to insinuate in your post.
Sounds like you are just trying to contradict posts for argumentative purposes?I insinuate nothing. No wonder you don't get it - there's nothing being insinuated.

I just contradict bullshit - bullshit like claims 'many retailers are going to use this GST increase as an excuse to hike prices because they can't otherwise, in a recession' when in fact they can change their prices whenever they damn well please.

[SPman]

From the Standard...
"This is using the Government’s own figures as dutifully re-printed by the media – so no adjustment for the massive inflation caused by the budget that means that roughly half of households will be worse off at the end of the year than at the start of it (according to NZ Institute of Economic Research).
The graph still doesn’t look good.
Danyl’s nicely pointed out where average wages and salaries are on the graph (not median, which are lower, and could have made the graph look worse…).
bradluen in the comments has calculated the relative gain in income, for those who reflexively add that “of course the rich do better in absolute numbers, they earn more, they get more…”

Net gain as a percentage of income:
If you earn $10K/year: 0.23%
If you earn $100K/year: 2.17%

And by the time you take out increased costs of mortgages from raised interest rates, higher rents from landlords passing on their tax avoidance being closed and extra childcare costs… well, we can all see where the government’s borrowed money for their tax change is going – and it ain’t to average kiwis."

[Marmoot]

...

Yea whatever. I don't like arguing with this kind of views and/or language. So yeah you win. You should be proud. Congratulations.

[NighthawkNZ]

I just contradict bullshit - bullshit like claims 'many retailers are going to use this GST increase as an excuse to hike prices because they can't otherwise, in a recession' when in fact they can change their prices whenever they damn well please.

because petrol goes up, freight goes up... on average before the end user gets the any goods they have been freighted, couriered 3 times, ie; farmer to factory, factory to store warehouse, store warehouse to supermarket. Each time adding an extra increase, which now means food and other goods go up before the increase in GST increase is even added... Now with the increased goods cost we add any ETS tax (if any) and then GST which is now 15% of a overal greater cost... which over all is going to be more than 2.5% increase.

Even if you don't change your spending average person will be worse off. Fuel, Food rates, rent, power, phone, internet, bike accesserioes :(

Now businesses don't care as they can claim on the GST anyway but it is the end user that fronts the brunt of gst bill...

They are wanting us to save good... but we are in a recession and the way out of that is to spend to give the a kick start to the overall econmony... so okay we have to find a balance... this is making it difficult

I know I will over all be at least $20 worse off...

[FROSTY]

Hey guys I figure I have got this right. By paying every possible bill now rather than deferring them till next month you save about 2.2% on the total bill right now don't you?
Not really an issue on say a $200 bill but say on $10000 its worth paying early. Or is my maths totally screwed?

[steve_t]

Hey guys I figure I have got this right. By paying every possible bill now rather than deferring them till next month you save about 2.2% on the total bill right now don't you?
Not really an issue on say a $200 bill but say on $10000 its worth paying early. Or is my maths totally screwed?

Nah Frosty. Invoices issued to you this month will still be the same if you pay them on the 20th. It's the same for your debtors as at 1 October. You'll just have to make an adjustment via a GST105 form that hopefully your accountant has forwarded to you

[FROSTY]

Ahh fuggit who cares ? I paid all the bills and might have enough left over to pay for a beer later

[steve_t]

Must be your shout on the 20th then :drinkup:

[sinned]

There is no doubt - I will be better off and by a lot. Hehehe more money to feed the beast. Just got paid today - last one at the old tax rate. And all vehicles, bike, cans are full of gas at today's gst rate.

:woohoo:

[Max Preload]

because petrol goes up, freight goes up... on average before the end user gets the any goods they have been freighted, couriered 3 times, ie; farmer to factory, factory to store warehouse, store warehouse to supermarket. Each time adding an extra increase, which now means food and other goods go up before the increase in GST increase is even added... Now with the increased goods cost we add any ETS tax (if any) and then GST which is now 15% of a overal greater cost... which over all is going to be more than 2.5% increase.

Even if you don't change your spending average person will be worse off. Fuel, Food rates, rent, power, phone, internet, bike accesserioes :(

Now businesses don't care as they can claim on the GST anyway but it is the end user that fronts the brunt of gst bill...The GST to the end user rises by only 2.2%. Businesses merely charge GST on behalf of IRD, collect it and deduct what they've paid in GST and pass on the balance. So that collection and deduction process does not affect the price of the goods. Residential rent doesn't have GST either.


They are wanting us to save good... but we are in a recession and the way out of that is to spend to give the a kick start to the overall econmony... so okay we have to find a balance... this is making it difficult

I know I will over all be at least $20 worse off...I refer you to this post.


I can't see how that's possible because if you expended your entire $1080/w after tax income on GST attracting supplies, you'd only then be $24 worse off and that's not even accounting for the tax cut.

The tax cut on $1080/week net is $49.96. That's from the NEW PAYE table. Offset the loss of $24/week from spending all the $1080/week on GST attracting items and you're still $25/week better off. So you'll forgive me if I don;t believe you that you'll be $20/week worse off having shown actual workings and figures, not mere conjecture.


Yea whatever. I don't like arguing with this kind of views and/or language. So yeah you win. You should be proud. Congratulations.So you've been caught out talking shit and now you're going to run off and bless your eyes. See ya!

[Crazy Steve]

So you've been caught out talking shit and now you're going to run off and bless your eyes. See ya!

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...

He is probaly hiding in the toliet atm so his mummy can't here that hes still up...

Crazy Steve.

[Crazy Steve]

Yesterday I robbed two banks in Auckland...So I should be fine for a little while thanks IRD ! ! :yes:

Crazy Steve.

[FROSTY]

Must be your shout on the 20th then :drinkup:
Nope on the 20th I'll be sunning myself on a beach many MANY miles norf of here.

[MikeL]

Five years actually.[/QUOTE]

Then you will agree that in almost every material respect you would be better off back there?

And if you kept your eyes open you would have noticed that environmentally and socially the Europeans have made huge improvements while NZ has stagnated not just economically but in these areas as well.

Which is my point. Whereas 30 years ago I would not have hesitated to choose NZ now the difference is less clear-cut. In our attempt to catch up with the rest of the world we have thrown away our unique advantages. Now we are heading towards having the worst of both worlds.

[Swoop]

Then you will agree that in almost every material respect you would be better off back there?
Financially, yes.
95% of anything else = "no".

30 years ago I would not have hesitated to choose NZ now the difference is less clear-cut. In our attempt to catch up with the rest of the world we have thrown away our unique advantages. Now we are heading towards having the worst of both worlds.
Quite true. Politicians have made some horrendous cock-ups which have cost the country dearly. Trying to "lead the world" with the Emissions Trading Scam and the OSH nazi's + taxman crippling our competitiveness...

Luckily we still have lovely scenery.

[Marmoot]

I just contradict bullshit - bullshit like claims 'many retailers are going to use this GST increase as an excuse to hike prices because they can't otherwise, in a recession' when in fact they can change their prices whenever they damn well please.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10678125

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10678218

[Max Preload]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10678125

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10678218

Wow! 30 complaints? That's certainly 'a lot of retailers'. :rofl:

In reality, a lot of retailers now think "these people just have a tax cut. And we haven't been able to increase our prices in a year due to recession! Now they have some money, we can increase the prices. Better yet, let's use "GST Increases" as an excuse".
So, off they go increasing the prices of items by a whallopping amount.



"Retailers were allowed to charge whatever they wanted for goods and services, but if they claimed the price rise was because of GST rising and that was found to be misleading, they could be in breach of the Fair Trading Act, she said."

So it's really the shopper's ignorance you have a problem with? Well, if they're too thick and impulsive to work things out, fuck 'em!

[FROSTY]

The feedback I've had in my industry is that suppliers have held back on price increases and done their price rises to line up with the GST increase.
When you think about it thats just sensible isn't it ?
Sensible in that if you think of the Mitre10's and Countdowns of this world as the extrreme example.Every store needed to reprice thousands of items for the GST rise. If they then had to go through the same job all over again for a supplyer price rise its double handling.

[davereid]

The feedback I've had in my industry is that suppliers have held back on price increases and done their price rises to line up with the GST increase.
When you think about it thats just sensible isn't it ?
Sensible in that if you think of the Mitre10's and Countdowns of this world as the extrreme example.Every store needed to reprice thousands of items for the GST rise. If they then had to go through the same job all over again for a supplyer price rise its double handling.

Very sensible.

What a massive and expensive operation repricing a massive shop like a supermarket must be.

You would be a complete mug to do it all for GST this week, then repeat it all in 6 months for cost-of-living increases.

With a 15% margin after costs on everything sold, there will be many instances where the governments cut is greater than the retailers.

[Scuba_Steve]

Lets face it we all knew price was gonna take a hike beyond GST it happens with any "forced" rise, its a chance for retailers to tack on some extra margin will little fuss/backlash so they do. Wether it right or wrong you can decide but it happens & always will I expect

[Waxxa]

Lets face it we all knew price was gonna take a hike beyond GST it happens with any "forced" rise, its a chance for retailers to tack on some extra margin will little fuss/backlash so they do. Wether it right or wrong you can decide but it happens & always will I expect

you will find that businesses are taking the opportunity to put inflationary costs that have been absorbed for the last couple of years on the price as well as the 2.5%.

Costs have been going up for businesses for years (rates, transportation, power...), this is why some prices are going up around 5%.

[Jonno.]

This is the exact reason we shouldn't remove tax on food.