Proposed changes to motorbike licences

[no_8wire]

Story (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4178822/Give-way-road-rule-change-confirmed)

The Government has also announced changes to motorcycle and moped laws including a power to weight restriction for novice riders, as well as:

* Tougher motorcycle licence tests which are also more motorcycle specific;

*Removing the option for motorcycles to complete an approved driving course, and so cutting the amount of time they spend on a restricted motorcycle licence;

* Motorcycle specific training to be introduced as an alternative to the standard resting regime;

*Requiring all novice motorcyclists, regardless of age, to be subject to the same minimum time requirements.

Currently over 25 year olds have a shorter time requirement on the restricted licence.

* Require all moped riders to complete a moped handling skills test along with a motorcycle learner theory test

*Introduce refresher training options and promote high visibility and protecting clothing benefits.

Power to weight restrictions would allow novice riders a greater range of bikes that were suited to their skill levels, Mr Joyce said.

"Motorcyclists are 20 times more at risk of being involved in a fatal or serious injury crash than car drivers per kilometre driven.``

Just as well its not in effect till 2012, and wont apply to me...wonder how much its going to push up the cost to obtaining your licence?

[sil3nt]

All sounds good to me. Getting a license is way to easy! Being allowed on the road with only an hours worth of riding a bike (sometimes less) at 20kph :facepalm:

[PrincessBandit]

Was just reading that myself.
Hmmmm. Still no harsher restrictions on learner and restricted car drivers though. I reckon that stinks. Little 17 year old Johnny can still go out on his L or R and drive daddy's SUV with minimal road skills/experience but motorcyclists get harsher restrictions.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily bitching about bikes getting tougher rules, but how come car drivers don't????

[skinman]

yep
I propose to change my license to a 6F next week
But seriously would be interesting to know how many bike accidents were caused by riders skill level or by other drivers actions.
I think that further training would be a good thing for both riders & drivers, but in saying that I have just been riding the bike & learning as I go so training would have to be compulsory to get anyone to do it.

[Animal]

...Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily bitching about bikes getting tougher rules, but how come car drivers don't????

That's a bloody good point! :yes:

[pzkpfw]

Still no harsher restrictions on learner and restricted car drivers though. I reckon that stinks. Little 17 year old Johnny can still go out on his L or R and drive daddy's SUV with minimal road skills/experience but motorcyclists get harsher restrictions.

Yep. They say that bikes are 20 times more likely per km travelled to have accidents (see story) and that's why these measures (which I also don't necessarily reject); but how about they compare Johnny to other car drivers.

We already know insurance premiums are higher for some groups; that indicates an accident rate sufficiently far enough from "average" for some groups.

[release_the_bees]

Was just reading that myself.
Hmmmm. Still no harsher restrictions on learner and restricted car drivers though. I reckon that stinks. Little 17 year old Johnny can still go out on his L or R and drive daddy's SUV with minimal road skills/experience but motorcyclists get harsher restrictions.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily bitching about bikes getting tougher rules, but how come car drivers don't????

I suppose their logic is that car drivers on their L plates are supposed to have a supervisor in the car with them, whereas motorcycle learners can immediately ride alone.

[Mom]

Well they can jam this *.......promote high visibility and protecting clothing benefits.

Thin end of the wedge this one. Wearing Hi-Viz does not make riding a bike safer.

[Bald Eagle]

Well they can jam this *.......promote high visibility and protecting clothing benefits.

Thin end of the wedge this one. Wearing Hi-Viz does not make riding a bike safer.

It didn't stop the disqualified driver doing a hit & run on me on my Bandit last week either.

[onearmedbandit]

Was just reading that myself.
Hmmmm. Still no harsher restrictions on learner and restricted car drivers though. I reckon that stinks. Little 17 year old Johnny can still go out on his L or R and drive daddy's SUV with minimal road skills/experience but motorcyclists get harsher restrictions.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily bitching about bikes getting tougher rules, but how come car drivers don't????

Who do you think has the most to lose from this? Farmers and people who live in rural areas. They can't wait until little Johnny or Jessie get their license, they've been driving the farm vehicles for a few years now, sometimes on the road, and now they can legally do so, taking the load off the parents.

Every time this is mentioned in the media, they are the first group to complain. Not boy racers or civil libertarians.

[Mom]

It didn't stop the disqualified driver doing a hit & run on me on my Bandit last week either.

Ouch! You ok?

[Bald Eagle]

Thanks for asking. I'm OK. The ATGATT did it's job , boots saved an almost certain broken ankle, lots of loverly bruises and time on my hands to cruise trademe looking for a replacement after the insurance wrote of el bandito.

[bogan]

Who do you think has the most to lose from this? Farmers and people who live in rural areas. They can't wait until little Johnny or Jessie get their license, they've been driving the farm vehicles for a few years now, sometimes on the road, and now they can legally do so, taking the load off the parents.

Every time this is mentioned in the media, they are the first group to complain. Not boy racers or civil libertarians.

yeh but little Johnny (in my case anyway) has already rolled bowled and arsholed a few bikes on the farm anyway, so probably doesn't have as much learning to do on either car or bike for the road. There should be some way of discriminating between those who aren't quite safe enough to drive/ride on the road, and those who are!

[gazmascelle]

sounds good to me, back when i started out i got my 6L by riding a glorified scooter around a carpark and doing the scratch test (which didn't require knowing sweet FA.)

then when i finally got myself a bike, learning to ride it consisted of "right - wheres the clutch and gears and shit?" then riding off down the road :facepalm:

now that i think back on it some proper training probably would have been a good idea lol

[ukusa]

Yep. They say that bikes are 20 times more likely per km travelled to have accidents (see story) and that's why these measures (which I also don't necessarily reject); but how about they compare Johnny to other car drivers.

so I average 7000 kms per year on bike = car equivelent of 140,000 kms/year.
in car I average 15000 kms/year.

So a total 155,000 kms/year and no accident yet. Where's my discount?

[Genestho]

Nothing new - part and parcel of the 62 initiatives proposed in the Safer Journeys public consultation last year..

More info http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjourneys/frequentlyaskedquestions/Pages/Motorcycleandmopedsafety-FAQs.aspx

So those who submitted last year - you still have a ways to go..

Will the public get the chance to comment on these proposals?

The motorcycle and moped safety proposals will require an amendment to the Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Rule. This Rule will be amended as part of the 2010/11 land transport rules programme.

The public will have a chance to have their say as part of the rules consultation process. It is expected that the public consultation on the motorcycle and moped safety proposals will occur before the end of the year.

I'm assuming there's more announcements to come overall regarding the original safer journeys proposals. There will be those here who're upto date with the proposed actions and regulatory impact statements released earlier this year...

[GOONR]

If LAMS is adopted the same way as in NSW and goes up to 650cc for a LAM approved bike and the higher ACC levy kicks in at 601cc isn't there a contradiction in there somewhere.

Basically they would be indicating that certain 650cc bikes are Ok for learners but at the same time they are saying that anything over 601cc is very bad and costs lots to put right in the event of an off. :confused:

[bogan]

If LAMS is adopted the same way as in NSW and goes up to 650cc for a LAM approved bike and the higher ACC levy kicks in at 601cc isn't there a contradiction in there somewhere.

Basically they would be indicating that certain 650cc bikes are Ok for learners but at the same time they are saying that anything over 601cc is very bad and costs lots to put right in the event of an off. :confused:

but if they go to a database they might do the levies by power to weight as well, catching all the 600cc sportsbike owners out, then again, a far more accurate measure for ACC payout/risk would be income based anyway!

[NighthawkNZ]

["Motorcyclists are 20 times more at risk of being involved in a fatal or serious injury crash than car drivers per kilometre driven.``

20 times... its going up...

only last year it was 16 times more at risk according to Nicks Myth and ACC... . bloody ETS & GST

and yet in reality it its only 4 times..

[neels]

then again, a far more accurate measure for ACC payout/risk would be income based anyway!
How do you figure that?

I have a reasonable income and a reasonable mortgage so not a huge disposable income, I ride a cheap bike about 5000k's a year, my first ever accident on the road after 23 years of having a licence was last week when a van driver tried to kill me.

So why should my income have anything to do with it?

[mister.koz]

yeh but little Johnny (in my case anyway) has already rolled bowled and arsholed a few bikes on the farm anyway, so probably doesn't have as much learning to do on either car or bike for the road. There should be some way of discriminating between those who aren't quite safe enough to drive/ride on the road, and those who are!

Dude, everyone always has heaps to learn. While there's heaps of knowledge to be gained by riding on the farm its nothing like the road. I've seen a few guys jump from farm bikes to sports bikes most of them seemed fearless until the road gave them something to fear.

Being open to learning and critiquing your riding at every step is the best way to keep yourself and your bikes in one piece.

I reckon its good that they are toughening the licence laws but I (at risk of flames) think the test should be more frequent rather than just saying "yip, now you can ride/drive forever - just get your eyes checked every 10 years".

The ACC and registrations are a different argument, pricks are targeting people with bigger bikes because they usually have more cash than people on the smaller bikes.

[mister.koz]

How do you figure that?

I have a reasonable income and a reasonable mortgage so not a huge disposable income, I ride a cheap bike about 5000k's a year, my first ever accident on the road after 23 years of having a licence was last week when a van driver tried to kill me.

So why should my income have anything to do with it?

With you on that, income (like CC's) is not directly proportional to the cost to ACC, if this is user pays style then a scale matching the problem would suit, of course the ACC levy thing isn't about fairness or balance so its a moot point.

[bogan]

How do you figure that?

I have a reasonable income and a reasonable mortgage so not a huge disposable income, I ride a cheap bike about 5000k's a year, my first ever accident on the road after 23 years of having a licence was last week when a van driver tried to kill me.

So why should my income have anything to do with it?

ACC pays out income compensation as well as treatment costs, high wage earners generally ride larger bikes, so ACC pays more income compensation to owners of large bikes.


Dude, everyone always has heaps to learn. While there's heaps of knowledge to be gained by riding on the farm its nothing like the road. I've seen a few guys jump from farm bikes to sports bikes most of them seemed fearless until the road gave them something to fear.

Being open to learning and critiquing your riding at every step is the best way to keep yourself and your bikes in one piece.

I reckon its good that they are toughening the licence laws but I (at risk of flames) think the test should be more frequent rather than just saying "yip, now you can ride/drive forever - just get your eyes checked every 10 years".

The ACC and registrations are a different argument, pricks are targeting people with bigger bikes because they usually have more cash than people on the smaller bikes.

No it's not like the road, but if you come from a farm you already instinctually know where the controls are etc, so rather than learning to ride a two wheeled vehicle at the same time as learning to ride on the road, you only gotta learn the latter. So there's an advantage there, but you are certainly right, everyone has heaps to learn, even the cagers, hoping their tests will get toughened up too!

[neels]

ACC pays out income compensation as well as treatment costs, high wage earners generally ride larger bikes, so ACC pays more income compensation to owners of large bikes.
That's the sort of generalisation that ACC use, that's got us to where we are now. A trainee at my work that makes considerably less than me rides a 1200, I ride a 900 with considerably more experience, does income and cc rating determine who is the bigger risk to ACC?


No it's not like the road, but if you come from a farm you already instinctually know where the controls are etc, so rather than learning to ride a two wheeled vehicle at the same time as learning to ride on the road, you only gotta learn the latter. So there's an advantage there, but you are certainly right, everyone has heaps to learn, even the cagers, hoping their tests will get toughened up too!
I agree, the concept of learning how to operate the machine at the same time as learning how to cope with the environment around you is a very high workload for a learner.

I learnt to drive cars and ride bikes in paddocks and carparks long before I went on the road, when it came to licence time thankfully I only had the road and traffic for my tiny brain to contend with.

[Morcs]

what i dont understand is, why all these proposals are so far away? why not instigate them almost immediately. Its not like theres an argument against them (except all those noobs thatll have to wait longer to get their full, although at the moment most still are noobs when they get their full, this will at least help that a little)

Surely it wont take long to compile the list of power to weight ratio learner friendly bikes.
Then design tests for cruisers, sports bikes etc..
The rest is just administration stuff.

[ckai]

I don't get why on one hand they're trying to make bikers safer on the roads and on the other they're giving no benefit to those that educate themselves?!?!?! I'm talking about not being able to reduce the licence period by doing an approved course.

Don't get me wrong, some of them are crap but some of them do offer some useful shit that can save your life and others.

Oh well, they who know best shall prevail. I know I wouldn't have done a course if it didn't reduce my time.

[mister.koz]

No it's not like the road, but if you come from a farm you already instinctually know where the controls are etc, so rather than learning to ride a two wheeled vehicle at the same time as learning to ride on the road, you only gotta learn the latter. So there's an advantage there, but you are certainly right, everyone has heaps to learn, even the cagers, hoping their tests will get toughened up too!

Thats a really good point, one i didn't think of because i did a fairly decent amount of training and practice before going near the road.


I don't get why on one hand they're trying to make bikers safer on the roads and on the other they're giving no benefit to those that educate themselves?!?!?! I'm talking about not being able to reduce the licence period by doing an approved course.

Don't get me wrong, some of them are crap but some of them do offer some useful shit that can save your life and others.

Oh well, they who know best shall prevail. I know I wouldn't have done a course if it didn't reduce my time.

True, i did the defensive driving course to shorten my licence but after doing it i thought they should make it mandatory... You can't have too much training.

Training day at hamton was a good one too :sunny:

It is pretty messed up that there are so many restrictions and requirements for bikes and any R driver can pickup a wrx or a skyline without question....

Why not put some restrictions on cars based on HP and up the registration on at-risk cars/drivers?

I think its 1/2 because the powers are lazy and 1/2 because there are more car drivers to complain and they are worried about elections and popularity.

[rustyrobot]

Have there been 'official' BRONZ or MAG-NZ statements on these proposed changes?

Seems to me that a higher level of driver/rider training ALL ROUND is necessary. Don't understand why 6L have the speed restrictions when there is no such restriction on a car. Also, if a power/weight ration can be calculate and considered for motorcyclists, surely there is the grounds to expect the same for learners in cars.

I did my BHS on a nifty-fifty (when I was 15). At the time I had a friend with an RGV250. He was smarter than me and wouldn't let me ride it, but it could have been very messy.

[kave]

When the power to weight ratio comes in I might pick myself up a cheap 250cc, maybe a 2-smoker. It will be interesting to see if the price of 250cc bikes at dealerships come down over the next little while in preparation for this change, I cant imagine a vtr250 for $9,499 (http://www.motorcycletrader.co.nz/View/Used/HONDA-VTR250-2010/38271.aspx) will sell once learners can buy much higher cc bikes. The 20 year old bikes such as (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports//auction-299370312.htm) that currently go for such a hugely inflated price will probably be cheap as chips as well.

[GOONR]

When the power to weight ratio comes in I might pick myself up a cheap 250cc, maybe a 2-smoker. It will be interesting to see if the price of 250cc bikes at dealerships come down over the next little while in preparation for this change, I cant imagine a vtr250 for $9,499 (http://www.motorcycletrader.co.nz/View/Used/HONDA-VTR250-2010/38271.aspx) will sell once learners can buy much higher cc bikes. The 20 year old bikes such as (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports//auction-299370312.htm) that currently go for such a hugely inflated price will probably be cheap as chips as well.

Yeah, I've already thought about flicking my 250cc in a few months and getting something in the 600cc range. The 250cc will be worth diddly squat if LAM comes in.

[Grahameeboy]

Was just reading that myself.
Hmmmm. Still no harsher restrictions on learner and restricted car drivers though. I reckon that stinks. Little 17 year old Johnny can still go out on his L or R and drive daddy's SUV with minimal road skills/experience but motorcyclists get harsher restrictions.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily bitching about bikes getting tougher rules, but how come car drivers don't????

Same in UK but I think too many riders are arrogant and also think that cars are a menace and should actually learn to ride instead of moaning..at the end of the day a lot of car (legally)fault accidents could be avoided by better educated riders who could do well to think and look ahead....I think it's called defensive riding...steady I know a revelation eh?

[bogan]

Have there been 'official' BRONZ or MAG-NZ statements on these proposed changes?

Seems to me that a higher level of driver/rider training ALL ROUND is necessary. Don't understand why 6L have the speed restrictions when there is no such restriction on a car. Also, if a power/weight ration can be calculate and considered for motorcyclists, surely there is the grounds to expect the same for learners in cars.

I did my BHS on a nifty-fifty (when I was 15). At the time I had a friend with an RGV250. He was smarter than me and wouldn't let me ride it, but it could have been very messy.

nothing official from us yet, pretty busy doing bits for our launch on sunday, if you're close enough to auckland or canterbury, head along, should be good :yes:

Well we saw what happend last year, bike increases were announced, then when it happened diesel owners got stung massively as well, maybe this is another smokescreen tactic to push through similar changes elsewhere. Personally I agree with some of the changes but wish they were applied to all motorists equally!

[HenryDorsetCase]

yeh but little Johnny (in my case anyway) has already rolled bowled and arsholed a few bikes on the farm anyway, so probably doesn't have as much learning to do on either car or bike for the road. There should be some way of discriminating between those who aren't quite safe enough to drive/ride on the road, and those who are!

I sort of thought that might be the point of licensing a driver in the first place.

[bogan]

I sort of thought that might be the point of licensing a driver in the first place.

yeh we got a facepalm smiley now but still none for sarcasm :facepalm:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yeah, I've already thought about flicking my 250cc in a few months and getting something in the 600cc range. The 250cc will be worth diddly squat if LAM comes in.

In Aus a VFR400 is learner legal, but an RVF400 is not. go figure!

[AllanB]

Power to weight - cool - learners can get 883 Harleys :yes:

Actually I know of a couple of guys on learners riding big-block HD's.


I am sure I heard the power-that-be talking about restrictions on cars that learners can use - they are probably still trying to sort it out.

Easy really (he says....) Under 1800cc, non turbo with a max power output to avoid the rocket sports hatches sneaking in.

[schrodingers cat]

Hmmmm. Still no harsher restrictions on learner and restricted car drivers though.



Silly. Cars don't kill motorcyclists - Motorcyclist cause their own accidents

Anyway, motorcycling is an elitist pursuit. Can't make it too hard for Aunty to get a licence to take the tamariki to school and then head down to the pokies. Ka Pai!

[Squiggles]

Have there been 'official' BRONZ or MAG-NZ statements on these proposed changes?

BRONZ (Auckland) Submitted on the Safer Journeys document (where this has come from), Ixion posted it somewhere on here. No statement that i'm aware of yet.


I'm interested in the competency based training and assessment (CBTA) course they intend to develop, could be a very good thing.

Q & A is here (http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjourneys/frequentlyaskedquestions/Pages/Motorcycleandmopedsafety-FAQs.aspx)

[PrincessBandit]

.......at the end of the day a lot of car (legally)fault accidents could be avoided by better educated riders who could do well to think and look ahead....I think it's called defensive riding...steady I know a revelation eh?

:nya: where on earth do you get such outrageous ideas from!!!!!

[rustyrobot]

On the upside, a whole lot of prospective and learner riders having to go through lessons and trainings means a whole lot of opportunities for competent riders to make a crust teaching them. Now could be a good time to get certified and set up shop!

[Grahameeboy]

:nya: where on earth do you get such outrageous ideas from!!!!!

Why ACC of course:innocent:

[discotex]

Wonder if anyone tried to contact the 6pm news before they went to air to give a reaction.. They managed to get AA guy on about the intersection changes but no-one from BRONZ et al about the bike changes. But they did get this handy stat out there:

According to 3news 60% of motorcycle accidents are the fault of the rider.... (they did then add "at least partially" but no-one else would have heard that).

Had to laugh (what else can you do?)... The anti-bike lobby in NZ is pissing all over us and we're just sitting there with our mouths open :facepalm:


(has anyone pointed out to the media that 100% of car accidents are the fault of a car driver? :gob:)

[Cayman911]

**Require all moped riders to complete a moped handling skills test along with a motorcycle learner theory test **



major thumbs up to that!!!!

[2 stroker]

I think I wont be able to ride my RG150 on my learners anymore. Can anyone else check my maths? 27kw & 128kg. Bit stink if you cant ride a 150cc bike on a learners.
I suppose if this is the case my bike will be worth nothing after the law change. Who wants to have a full license to ride a small bike.

[lvcnrs]

i believe it will only get harder.. althought being easy from my point of view.

in november last year i woke up one morning thought 'darn it' ima do something different ill get my class 6 and beat dad. wel i did and my day went as is: never ridden a two wheeler in my life (part from a push bike) got my handling cert after one lesson then sat the theory and passed...... then i was legally aloud on the road on a 250cc and i didnt even feel up to it.. but according to the law i could..


thats CRAZY .. harder laws a good thing or not?

[pete376403]

Stoney (brent) as Wgtn BRONZ pres had a fairly good interview on national radio just before the 6pm news

[Swoop]

There should be some way of discriminating between those who aren't quite safe enough to drive/ride on the road, and those who are!
That is meant to be the assessment/test to obtain a licence. Just a shame it is made to cater to the lowest common denominator (scratchy test, anyone?), is abused by corrupt assessors' (AA, anyone?) who will take bribes to pass applicants, and this whole scheme has very little base in training a person to drive/ride. So long as you can jump through the hoops and convey enough to the assessor that you do know what you are doing... "have a licence to kill/drive".

That is if people even bother to get a licence in the first place...

[rustyrobot]

Stoney (brent) as Wgtn BRONZ pres had a fairly good interview on national radio just before the 6pm news

Cool, thanks. Found the link here...
http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ckpt/ckpt-20100929-1739-New_rules_to_improve_motorcycle_safety-048.mp3

[BuckBuck#1]

Bravo Zulu - Well Done Brent.

[sleemanj]

the LAM was supposed to have been introduced by now already, Labour first presented this plan in their last term (second year thereof from memory), it was discussed here at KB at the time, with people saying things like the bottom had dropped out of the 250 market.

Then National won the election, and promptly put a stop to the idea (the cynic says, in order to get ACC increased first), it seems now that they have rolled out the chestnut again (and the right-hand-rule changes, I'm fairly sure that was also discussed by labour) with another 2 year lead time.

While it might happen, this time, I'm not going to be holding my breath.

[Dadpole]

While it might happen, this time, I'm not going to be holding my breath.

I imagine all that will happen for a while will be compulsory fluro vests (building site standards) and increased costs and penalties.
In short; the usual "Do nothing but make 'em pay" option.

[fleebag4@]

I got my licence in the UK (Learners on Max 125cc and full licence done on a 500cc plus) The learners consisted of one day doing the basics in a car park and the 2nd on the road. Firstly it was quite back roads and then thrown into the main traffic. All the time the guy chatting to me in the ear piece which was great. I cursed and that cost, but well worth it! When i went for my full licence, well, it was 2 days on a 500cc (Have to take your full test on a 500cc plus) with the same principal of riding around. Always 2 people to one instructor and i think thats a great idea to have here. Saying that, my partner just got her learners and i can say i'm damn scared of her getting a bigger bike as she should never of passed and even she said so! So i'll be teaching her myself first.

The other thing thats crazy, is that the ACC wasn't made to discriminate which it does now and why 2 separate rules for cars and bikes! johnny can still drive a suped up V8 on his learners whilst our learners struggle on there 250cc!!!! Just crazy! And now they're finding new ways to mak money out of bikers as they know how passionate we are and willing to pay the price :( If you're like me, well, then you'll be hurting with the reg as i have a 650, so either sell and get a 600 or upgrade to something worth paying reg for:shutup:

[Conquiztador]

"The Government has also announced changes to motorcycle and moped laws including a power to weight restriction for novice riders, as well as:

* Tougher motorcycle licence tests which are also more motorcycle specific;

*Removing the option for motorcycles to complete an approved driving course, and so cutting the amount of time they spend on a restricted motorcycle licence;

* Motorcycle specific training to be introduced as an alternative to the standard resting regime;

*Requiring all novice motorcyclists, regardless of age, to be subject to the same minimum time requirements.

Currently over 25 year olds have a shorter time requirement on the restricted licence.

* Require all moped riders to complete a moped handling skills test along with a motorcycle learner theory test

*Introduce refresher training options and promote high visibility and protecting clothing benefits.

Power to weight restrictions would allow novice riders a greater range of bikes that were suited to their skill levels, Mr Joyce said.

"Motorcyclists are 20 times more at risk of being involved in a fatal or serious injury crash than car drivers per kilometre driven.``


And the supporters of this are...

[Tryhard]

Power to weight - cool - learners can get 883 Harleys :yes:

Actually I know of a couple of guys on learners riding big-block HD's.




LOL a learner on a Harley! Will the take in to account the riders weight?

A diet is usually cheaper than carbon fibre parts

[dogsnbikes]

LOL a learner on a Harley!

Look at mid age crises and your find basically that.....

We have a guy at work who has just brought a FJ1200,whats the fuss he hasn't ridden a bike for almost 35 years and then it was a 250cc triumph,despite being told too get something smaller to refresh his skill,he wasn't interested as he say he has a bike licence.....

Bloody easy too change Rules,Its Attitudes that are hardest......

[Ronin]

Yeah, I've already thought about flicking my 250cc in a few months and getting something in the 600cc range. The 250cc will be worth diddly squat if LAM comes in.

They are worth diddly squat now... People do pay far to much for them though.

[MarkH]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily bitching about bikes getting tougher rules, but how come car drivers don't????

I have to agree - fair enough that we want motorcyclists to be better skilled to be safer, but surely we also want car drivers to learn not to kill us? I regularly see appalling lack of driving skill on NZ roads, fuckwits can't manage to grasp the most basic concepts - why not toughen up the requirements for those people that guide a tonne & a half (or more) of steel & glass at 100kph on public roads.

Motorcyclists are less likely to kill someone else than car drivers, to me that is good enough reason to require better driving standards from car drivers!

[baptist]

I have had my learners now for just a couple of months. I passed the handling skills and felt there was no way I could go on the road, I had been on a 125cc for a couple of hours and never out of 2nd... I had an additional riderskills training session before going out and it was worth every $$$$ I really believe the handling skills, if nothing else, has to be more stringent. I have also driven cars for many years and feel the driving standard I see everyday from car drivers is staggering, if bike tests need to be harder, and I think they do, then car tests certainly need to be re evaluated. A learner in a car my have to have a supervisor but I do not think someone sitting in the front seat is going to react fast enough to stop an accident unless they have duel controls (not an option on the average Honda Civic) and so new car drivers cerainly need to have some kind of limit on the cars they can drive, stop them getting into turbos, modifieds and rotaries for a start.... jut my thoughts. :innocent::shutup:

[BOGAN02]

if they want moped riders to do a test then people may aswel go for their learners instead. and include scooters in there.

[Squiggles]

Interesting to look back 13 years at this thesis. (http://researchspace.auckland.ac.nz/handle/2292/2182)

[davereid]

Interesting to look back 13 years at this thesis. (http://researchspace.auckland.ac.nz/handle/2292/2182)


Interesting thesis, but it excluded residential streets and crashes in the early hours of the morning.

Why would you exclude residential streets?

[Newbi]

Wonder if anyone tried to contact the 6pm news before they went to air to give a reaction.. They managed to get AA guy on about the intersection changes but no-one from BRONZ et al about the bike changes. But they did get this handy stat out there:

According to 3news 60% of motorcycle accidents are the fault of the rider.... (they did then add "at least partially" but no-one else would have heard that).

Had to laugh (what else can you do?)... The anti-bike lobby in NZ is pissing all over us and we're just sitting there with our mouths open :facepalm:


(has anyone pointed out to the media that 100% of car accidents are the fault of a car driver? :gob:)

Oh how true!

[nzspokes]

When does the speed restitution end?