Motorcycle shop retailers using the Internet as a sales tool for wholesalers

[Quasievil]

Its so interesting to me that all the motorcycle shop retailers are utilizing the internet as a sales tool for Wholesaler imported brands.
Wholesalers supporting such ventures in a significant way is two faced as as they wont support allow established internet sellers their product lines, based on what exactly we dont have a full on retail presence, is that it ? and errr why?

You think a NZ Wholesaler will supply me boots or Helmets or whatever........nah !!
It will be and is the demise of the retail and wholesale structure as guys like me start to consider parallel importing.

NZ is so Backward.

But good luck with your site

[caseye]

Quasi, while I support your right to express your opinion and I also have some sympathy for it,I'm not altogether sure that today was the right day to raise this particular issue.
While I've bought gear at shops and direct importers/wholesalers, I've also bought gear from you and on that basis I've not yet bought gear from anyone else, since.
Continue to make good gear, stay true to your standards and I'm sure most will continue to spend the extra dollars it takes to purchase Q gear.

[Quasievil]

Quasi, while I support your right to express your opinion and I also have some sympathy for it,I'm not altogether sure that today was the right day to raise this particular issue.


Dont go reading to much "KB" style into it, it is a dig at the wholesalers not the retailers

[Depot 4 Motorcycles]

They support us because we have a large retail store ! This allow's people to come and try before they buy. A sole intertnet based store dose not allow this!

We also have l large stock holding of most items they supply! unless we keep the bike shop's strong there will be no where to buy bikes and try and buy gear. i hope people understand this and support us!

[Quasievil]

They support us because we have a large retail store !

And a large Online presence and focus, which is contrary to the point and the discussion I'm having with you.

Thats the only difference as most internet sellers I know receive customers every week also, (I know we do), as well as (for us) a significant investment out layed.

As Retailers like you flock towards "our" online business model I wonder why it is taking so long before the wholesalers to recognize online trading as a valid sales route? to protect the shops so we can buy motorcycles? is that the reason ? I dont think so.

Ive had this argument many times with my mates at Whites and Nationwide. Its not that important to me as we can just get our own products in offshore, but isn't that part of why their is product saturation in NZ at the moment?

Please dont read this as against you ok, its against the wholesalers.
But I hope customers support you as well and indeed every motorcycle business:yes:.

[SS90]

And a large Online presence and focus, which is contrary to the point and the discussion I'm having with you.

Thats the only difference as most internet sellers I know receive customers every week also, (I know we do), as well as (for us) a significant investment out layed.

As Retailers like you flock towards "our" online business model I wonder why it is taking so long before the wholesalers to recognize online trading as a valid sales route? to protect the shops so we can buy motorcycles? is that the reason ? I dont think so.

Ive had this argument many times with my mates at Whites and Nationwide. Its not that important to me as we can just get our own products in offshore, but isn't that part of why their is product saturation in NZ at the moment?

Please dont read this as against you ok, its against the wholesalers.
But I hope customers support you as well and indeed every motorcycle business:yes:.

Jeeze man, get off your Soap Box will ya.

Simply put, your overheads, no matter how high they are to you, are a piffle compared to an average Bike Shop, and, as such, retail items have to have a margin in them that reflect the higher overheads.

Internet Based "Stores" can offer the same product at lower prices, simply because they don't need the same turn over as a shop with higher overheads to achieve the same end of year profit.

Simple really, and good on the NZ wholesalers for sticking to their guns in protecting their established dealers.

[Quasievil]

Jeeze man, get off your Soap Box will ya.

Simply put, your overheads, no matter how high they are to you, are a piffle compared to an average Bike Shop, and, as such, retail items have to have a margin in them that reflect the higher overheads.

Internet Based "Stores" can offer the same product at lower prices, simply because they don't need the same turn over as a shop with higher overheads to achieve the same end of year profit.

Simple really, and good on the NZ wholesalers for sticking to their guns in protecting their established dealers.

Yes Internet shops are a great business model because as you point out the costs of running the business is lower, I guess this is why the bike shops seem to be "flocking" to this model...........so that makes me think so whats the issue now with the wholesalers then?
The Wholesalers are protecting the retailers, yes your right, or are they protecting this dinosaur business model, bike shops are falling over left right and centre...............meantime with the wholesalers protecting the retailers "larger Margins" you guys, the customers are buying on mass in foreign online shops where the wholesalers already support the internet based sellers.

Get my point?

However I support Depot 4 Motorcycles, it is the way of the future, I just think (and my sole point is) that Wholesalers need to wake up to this future.........it is here.

[SpankMe]

I still prefer to go to a shop and buy stuff. I will look for what I want on the net, but will go to a shop to buy it.

[SS90]

Yes Internet shops are a great business model because as you point out the costs of running the business is lower, I guess this is why the bike shops seem to be "flocking" to this model...........so that makes me think so whats the issue now with the wholesalers then?
The Wholesalers are protecting the retailers, yes your right, or are they protecting this dinosaur business model, bike shops are falling over left right and centre...............meantime with the wholesalers protecting the retailers "larger Margins" you guys, the customers are buying on mass in foreign online shops where the wholesalers already support the internet based sellers.

Get my point?

However I support Depot 4 Motorcycles, it is the way of the future, I just think (and my sole point is) that Wholesalers need to wake up to this future.........it is here.

I get your point, but as I have spent 16 years in the motorcycle industry (13 in NZ 3 in Europe) I would have to say that I am all to familure with the business model.

Bike shops in NZ are closing their doors, as well as Europe, and all over the world.....it's got sweet FA to do with the established business models being faulty, it is simply a case of market saturation
Every man and his dog wanted in on what they perceived to be a money train, and, in the process, saturated the market with the same or similar products.

Did you not notice that not long after the online shops started appearing, then the first of the old school dealers started disappearing?

There is only so much market to go around (particularly NZ) and simply the same sized market has been shared among the many rather than just the few.

The survivors have been the cheaper ones.....or the ones that don't rely on the business as their sole income..... And therefore have less fixed costs....... Like an MD with a day job......

[Quasievil]

I get your point, but as I have spent 16 years in the motorcycle industry (13 in NZ 3 in Europe) I would have to say that I am all to familure with the business model.

Bike shops in NZ are closing their doors, as well as Europe, and all over the world.....it's got sweet FA to do with the established business models being faulty, it is simply a case of market saturation
Every man and his dog wanted in on what they perceived to be a money train, and, in the process, saturated the market with the same or similar products.

Did you not notice that not long after the online shops started appearing, then the first of the old school dealers started disappearing?

There is only so much market to go around (particularly NZ) and simply the same sized market has been shared among the many rather than just the few.

The survivors have been the cheaper ones.....or the ones that don't rely on the business as their sole income..... And therefore have less fixed costs....... Like an MD with a day job......

I to have been in the industry for a lengthy period, also as marketing Manager for a leading NZ m/c Wholesaler.

And yes to the Market being saturated, it is and ridiculously so in many areas, everyone in NZ is an importer that is clear.

In reference to your comment about the online shops being responsible for the retailers disappearing.........not so sure about that actually.

My previous comments about off shore buying is a contributor (just read the threads on KB about such things) as well as top heavy retail businesses that are finding themselves with less and less unique product offerings, not to mention in many areas multi margin trains creating high retail pricing.
Couple the above with market saturation and throw in a recession thats why bike shops are closing, and indeed now "flocking" towards internet business models for part of the business in an effort to gain bigger pools of potential customers.

[SS90]

My previous comments about off shore buying is a contributor (just read the threads on KB about such things) as well as top heavy retail businesses that are finding themselves with less and less unique product offerings, not to mention in many areas multi margin trains creating high retail pricing.
Couple the above with market saturation and throw in a recession thats why bike shops are closing, and indeed now "flocking" towards internet business models for part of the business in an effort to gain bigger pools of potential customers.

Yes, sure, multi margins are a problem, but by in large that is gone with the level of parallel imports and new brands, from Asian manufacturers now supplying anyone.

I wonder what it would cost to manufacturer a helmet in NZ now.... Puma and FFM only managed to do it when they had tariffs on such things, once the tariffs where gone, the very next day the market came alive with lighter, cheaper, safer, better alternatives.

But, as you too say, the current climate combined with saturation (saturation caused primarily by internet based retailers) has caused the downfall of many shops.... That is the reality, and, I agree to a certain point, as I have said before, there are things that needed changing in the industry.... But too many people got in on the act and it seems are fighting for smaller and smaller margins, and, in order to survive, with these margins many shops are having to lower overheads in order to survive.

Its not a case of following business models, it's leveling the playing field.

[Quasievil]

But, as you too say, the current climate combined with saturation (saturation caused primarily by internet based retailers) has caused the downfall of many shops.... That is the reality

Nope completely wrong sorry, add up how many brands are imported by the wholesale network and then look at how many small brands marketed partly via the internet i.e 1tonne, Qmoto......ummmm I can still include Trademe junk and win on this one mate

You will note the saturation isnt from the internet sellers.............its from the Wholesalers I can go into Boyds right now and find over 10 different types of apparel marketed by wholesalers. A quick flick through HALF of this months BRM mag shows me 20+ apparel brands marketed by w/s.

[SS90]

Nope completely wrong sorry, add up how many brands are imported by the wholesale network and then look at how many small brands marketed partly via the internet i.e 1tonne, Qmoto......ummmm I can still include Trademe junk and win on this one mate

You will note the saturation isnt from the internet sellers.............its from the Wholesalers I can go into Boyds right now and find over 10 different types of apparel marketed by wholesalers. A quick flick through HALF of this months BRM mag shows me 20+ apparel brands marketed by w/s.


eh?

I must admit I don't look at trade me too often, but a quick look has netted..........
Cycletreads
The motorcycle and scooter bar
Lifestyle imports
1tonne
Mohnsbikewear

As selling gloves, perhaps some is indeed junk, and some not.

All seem a cheap price, and you have to wonder " how much are they paying for it"

I would respectfully ask though Quasi, ( I understand you have a day job....correct me if I am wrong)..... But could you possibly earn a reasonable living based solely on your bike gear?

The reason in ask is that bike shop owners generally have to, as do their staff.

[Quasievil]

eh?



Really. OK here I go

Alpinestar, Spidi, Dianese, Shift, Rjays, Dririder, Tecknic, joe Rocket, Revit, Truimph, Harley Davidson,Neo, Macna, Draggin, Axo,AGV, Berik, RST, motowear , magello, GP star, Leoshi, Spool, BMW, SPYKE, OXford, Nortech, Motoline, Ixion, M2R, Orina ,

There is 31 brands available in Hamilton right now for example.

There are 4 odd bike shops.

Who is saturating the market?

[Hitcher]

We also have l large stock holding of most items they supply! unless we keep the bike shop's strong there will be no where to buy bikes and try and buy gear. i hope people understand this and support us!

Most bike shops and importer/wholesalers are only interested in stocking items that suit the "average" biker. If anybody wants to buy something unusual, say a 3XL helmet, then the current retail model is completely stuffed, unless the poor old customer wants to wait for an indent ordering system to fire up and deliver something for them that may not meet their needs after a wait of at least three months. The same situation applies to acquiring parts for Aprilia motorcycles.

Through the Internet one can have a 3XL helmet, with a choice of colours and graphics, delivered to one's home address in five days. One can have approved Aprilia parts fitted to one's motorcycle in a week. Try doing either of those tasks in those timeframes through an "approved" New Zealand importer/retailer channel.

Don't get me wrong, I am an ardent and loyal customer for my friendly neighbourhood motorcycle store. But the New Zealand distribution industry needs to seriously wake up and smell the coffee. Quasi's point, if I understand it correctly, is that customers have choices and they will exercise them. Retailers and their generally blase approach to running a business need to realise that.

[AllanB]

Sorry Quasi I may be having a 'thick' day - what's the problem - Wholesalers charging too much or dominating the market too much?

And you say a NZ wholesaler will not sell you goods to retail? WTF - you been sniffing around his daughter or something!

As for NZ Internet sites - there are a few goodies springing up - I've used Fastbikegear several times recently - they had the product I wanted in stock NOW and it was on my doorstep the next day. I cannot see a issue with that :woohoo:

Wholesalers have dominated the NZ aftermarket forever - now I'm not in the industry but I presume without them there would be a very small choice of product available.

I agree with Hitcher re self importing too - I ordered some renthal street bars recently - the colour I wanted was not in NZ in the profile I required - could take until Xmas to get here. I had them in hand exactly 7 days later from England and $50 cheaper (including post).

Tell you who is good in Christchurch and I'm happy to promote, is Sportzone - the parts guys know their stuff and are happy to do a bit of research if required and actually contact you with the info and send a txt when the bit arrives.

[scott411]

the simple thing is that business is changing, as it always has, and it always will, if you stay the same you will die

some traditional shops like myself are getting into internet sales using there own name, like me(mr motorcycles), cycletreads, motomail etc, and then some others are creating another brand, Depot 4, motorcyclegear etc, only time will tell which is the better option,

Quasi i think you are right about to many gear brands out there, but do not see an end to it, with the internet now buyers are better informed than they have ever been, and know of all the different types of gear, wholesalers are only trying to sell, and as already put in this thread it is very easy now to get stuff form overseas if they do not have the size/colour or even brand that the dealer does not have or can not get.

will the traditional method of wholesaler/retailer stay? not really sure to be honest, i know that both sides margins are getting squeezed, but if the wholesaler goes then some other features they offer like credit for instance will go with them, and instead of getting stuff overnight dealers will have to stock more, so will require more margin to make it work, or more turnover which will mean less dealers,

The internet has also changed how shops advertise, i know that the magazines are finding it alot harder to get advertising revenue, Fairfax new this that is why they paid so much for trademe, because trademe was taking there revenue source,

i have only owned a shop for less than 10 years, and been workng in the industry for 15, but it is a very different world to deal with now than it was in 2002 when i brought the shop, and i bet in another 10 years it will be very different again,

[imdying]

Wouldn't worry too much Brett, have a look at my post in their thread, they're not even in the same ball park as a dedicated eTailer, not even the same planet... I could probably negotiate the same deal in town for the latest model.

[Quasievil]

WOW, this thread was spawned and now moved to its own.

To clarify

I wouldnt mind being able to offer products to my customers that are distributed by the NZ wholesalers, things like Helmets, Boots for example.
However the NZ wholesalers will not allow me to have an account as "Im not a genuine business" and "dont have a retail shop"

I think this view is antiquated and needs changing

meantime I think its Ironic, that the wholesalers and the retailers are increasing there online Store presence ON MASS.

thats its, no big show here

[ckai]

WOW, this thread was spawned and now moved to its own.

To clarify

I wouldnt mind being able to offer products to my customers that are distributed by the NZ wholesalers, things like Helmets, Boots for example.
However the NZ wholesalers will not allow me to have an account as "Im not a genuine business" and "dont have a retail shop"

I think this view is antiquated and needs changing

meantime I think its Ironic, that the wholesalers and the retailers are increasing there online Store presence ON MASS.

thats its, no big show here

So you're not bitching about markup by wholesalers, nor about retailers? You're just bitching about wholesalers being so stuck in the dark ages they believe an online presence isn't substantial enough to sell their products?

Dicks!! haha

Or do they just not like you? Or...you did sleep with one of their daughters!!! :shit:

haha

[Brian d marge]

have to throw my 2 pence into the ring here,

The whole motorcycle model is dying ( dead?) in the water , its now entertainment , and the provision of that entertainment

While I do not know the NZ model , I have a bit to do here in Japan and in England and while the traditional model of bikes repair and the supporting industries gear sales etc do still have relevance ( ie it can generate a profit )
but I suspect the biggest income stream would be providing the customer with support to enjoy the form of entertainment.
Mx , maise paddock day , track day, rides to beauty sports , breakdown, bike loan whatever it takes for the customer to enjoy motorcycles .

I cannot understand business that have a restrictive practices , Apple, windows
sony canon .... just cuts off your nose despite the face .....ie i will never buy an apple product again , nor a sony ...but would definitely by an FFM helmet again ( good product right price and NZ )

In today's climate , proactive customer service is key ...

IMHO

stephen

[scott411]

..but would definitely by an FFM helmet again ( good product right price and NZ )



FFM's are made in China like everything else now, they closed down there Waihi factory for motorcycle helmets,

[gammaguy]

Its so interesting to me that all the motorcycle shop retailers are utilizing the internet as a sales tool for Wholesaler imported brands.
Wholesalers supporting such ventures in a significant way is two faced as as they wont support allow established internet sellers their product lines, based on what exactly we dont have a full on retail presence, is that it ? and errr why?

You think a NZ Wholesaler will supply me boots or Helmets or whatever........nah !!
It will be and is the demise of the retail and wholesale structure as guys like me start to consider parallel importing.

NZ is so Backward.

But good luck with your site

like you said,NZ is so backward.

anyone with half a brain can(and does)import from overseas where prices and selection are better than NZ.The logical step from there is to retail to NZ market at a better margin than the wholesalers are offering their long suffering dealers.Unless they start looking after their dealers and stop being so dam greedy,they will all fade away while smart dealers will simply source products from overseas for themselves,cutting out the fat cat importers in the process.

Its the way of the future,and in this global market unless you are innovative and informed,you will be swept aside by those that are.

[nodrog]

Really. OK here I go

Alpinestar, Spidi, Dianese, Shift, Rjays, Dririder, Tecknic, joe Rocket, Revit, Truimph, Harley Davidson,Neo, Macna, Draggin, Axo,AGV, Berik, RST, motowear , magello, GP star, Leoshi, Spool, BMW, SPYKE, OXford, Nortech, Motoline, Ixion, M2R, Orina ,

There is 31 brands available in Hamilton right now for example.

There are 4 odd bike shops.

Who is saturating the market?

Cool! who stocks Aplinestars leather suits in Hamilton? I have been dying to try a couple out, but alas I could not find anybody in Tauranga who stocks them.

Fanny

[Henk]

I find it ironic that you are complaining that the importers won't supply you.
By importing your gear directly you are in direct competition with them, changing business models or not.
I'm sure there is nothing wrong with the stuff you sell, in fact from what I have seen it seems OK, however I have never bought any and probably never will because your main marketing strategy in the past seems to have been to describe all your competitors gear as overpriced rubbish and I know others who feel the same way. If this approach has been enough to turn me off I wouldn't be suprised if it has had some impact on your possible relationship with the wholesalers when you call them up to ask for an account.

[Quasievil]

I find it ironic that you are complaining that the importers won't supply you.
By importing your gear directly you are in direct competition with them, changing business models or not.
I'm sure there is nothing wrong with the stuff you sell, in fact from what I have seen it seems OK, however I have never bought any and probably never will because your main marketing strategy in the past seems to have been to describe all your competitors gear as overpriced rubbish and I know others who feel the same way. If this approach has been enough to turn me off I wouldn't be suprised if it has had some impact on your possible relationship with the wholesalers when you call them up to ask for an account.

Not sure if you can read or not But I said this actually

To clarify

I wouldnt mind being able to offer products to my customers that are distributed by the NZ wholesalers, things like Helmets, Boots for example.
However the NZ wholesalers will not allow me to have an account as "Im not a genuine business" and "dont have a retail shop"

I think this view is antiquated and needs changing

meantime I think its Ironic, that the wholesalers and the retailers are increasing there online Store presence ON MASS.

thats its, no big show here

Im not sure where you got the rest of your assumptions from?

[gammaguy]

Not sure if you can read or not But I said this actually

To clarify

I wouldnt mind being able to offer products to my customers that are distributed by the NZ wholesalers, things like Helmets, Boots for example.
However the NZ wholesalers will not allow me to have an account as "Im not a genuine business" and "dont have a retail shop"

I think this view is antiquated and needs changing

meantime I think its Ironic, that the wholesalers and the retailers are increasing there online Store presence ON MASS.

thats its, no big show here

Im not sure where you got the rest of your assumptions from?


you said it yourself....you sell online ,THEY sell online.

They see you as competition,not as a client.So, treat them as competition and not suppliers.

sorted

[Quasievil]

Cool! who stocks Aplinestars leather suits in Hamilton? I have been dying to try a couple out, but alas I could not find anybody in Tauranga who stocks them.

Fanny

Boyds and Hamilton Honda Stock Alpinestar suits, good crews at both should be able to help you out

[imdying]

I think this view is antiquated and needs changingWiki suggest that mail order business have been in operation since 1744, so you might be right...

/edit: Actually, they are changing, they're just choosing to exclude you from it. Anti competitive? A little... parallel importing is legal here though, you can't be the only one in your position too ;)

[nodrog]

Boyds and Hamilton Honda Stock Alpinestar suits, good crews at both should be able to help you out

Thankyou Mr Quasievil :love:

Fanny

[Brian d marge]

FFM's are made in China like everything else now, they closed down there Waihi factory for motorcycle helmets,

bum

turn ya back for five min and offshore it goes ...
Stephen

[scott411]

bum

turn ya back for five min and offshore it goes ...
Stephen

yes the import duty of 20% on motorcycle helmets was one of the last to go, made the top end helmets alot cheaper when it happened

[Brian d marge]

yes the import duty of 20% on motorcycle helmets was one of the last to go, made the top end helmets alot cheaper when it happened
Off topic , I had FFm helmets when I raced my Cr I found them a good product and good value too even made in NZ .... pity that its offshore now

Stephen

[Crasherfromwayback]

Off topic , I had FFm helmets when I raced my Cr I found them a good product and good value too even made in NZ .... pity that its offshore now

Stephen

I wouldn't put one on my dog. And I don't even own a dog.

[Brian d marge]

I wouldn't put one on my dog. And I don't even own a dog.
Well the ones I owned were ok ... not that there was a lot to protect :innocent:

Stephen

[Forest]

About two years ago I parallel imported a high-end helmet from the USA (a BMW Sport Integral Carbon Fiber helmet).

Including FedEx International Priority delivery, it was over $1,200 cheaper than the local agent's price and was here within two working days (the agent quoted three weeks).

[Str8 Jacket]

I find it ironic that you are complaining that the importers won't supply you.
By importing your gear directly you are in direct competition with them, changing business models or not.
I'm sure there is nothing wrong with the stuff you sell, in fact from what I have seen it seems OK, however I have never bought any and probably never will because your main marketing strategy in the past seems to have been to describe all your competitors gear as overpriced rubbish and I know others who feel the same way. If this approach has been enough to turn me off I wouldn't be suprised if it has had some impact on your possible relationship with the wholesalers when you call them up to ask for an account.

Hit. Nail. On. Head.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Well the ones I owned were ok ... not that there was a lot to protect :innocent:

Stephen

Hahaha...ditto. My helmet is worth a lot more than my head! But from the time I first wore an Arai, I've only ever once ridden with anything else. That was my 1st and only ever AGV.

[Quasievil]

Hit. Nail. On. Head.

Oh surprise the quasi bagger enters, boring

[Str8 Jacket]

Oh surprise the quasi bagger enters, boring

Didn't start your own site/empire, yet again?

If you want to make this personal and air dirty laundry on the site then be my guest! ;)

Run along now.....

[Quasievil]

Hahaha...ditto. My helmet is worth a lot more than my head! But from the time I first wore an Arai, I've only ever once ridden with anything else. That was my 1st and only ever AGV.

Whats wrong with AGV, I got one love it, prefer it to my Arai, Cant wear my AGV tho as Rossi signed it, it was a AGV Pro Rossi replica so that sucked, cheers Rossi
wonder what its worth.

[AllanB]

I wouldnt mind being able to offer products to my customers that are distributed by the NZ wholesalers, things like Helmets, Boots for example.
However the NZ wholesalers will not allow me to have an account as "Im not a genuine business" and "dont have a retail shop"

Import them direct, undercut their RRP and you may find they start knocking on your door.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Whats wrong with AGV, I got one love it, prefer it to my Arai, Cant wear my AGV tho as Rossi signed it, it was a AGV Pro Rossi replica so that sucked, cheers Rossi
wonder what its worth.

Nothing if they fit your head properly...although I've seen a fair few warranty 'issues' with some Rossi reps. It's just that they don't fit me as well, and I don't think they're as well made as an Arai. But helmets are a very personal thing.

[FROSTY]

Quasi I have run into the same issue with 3 of the 4 wholesalers. Their reasoning in my case was that I was retailing in direct competition with another (now gone) existing customer. In my case I was wanting accessories for the bikes I sell.
But times they are a changing.

[Scouse]

To clarify

I wouldnt mind being able to offer products to my customers that are distributed by the NZ wholesalers, things like Helmets, Boots for example.
However the NZ wholesalers will not allow me to have an account as "Im not a genuine business" and "dont have a retail shop"

Hmmm Maybe they have seen your online persona and don't wish to have their quality brands damaged by such a nob jockey (online of course. face to face you are probaby an nice guy but online.............. anyway food for thought)

[Quasievil]

Hmmm Maybe they have seen your online persona and don't wish to have their quality brands damaged by such a nob jockey (online of course. face to face you are probaby an nice guy but online.............. anyway food for thought)

Cheers for that Scouse, I will re model based on your persona

[PirateJafa]

Guess they want to protect their reputation for quality.

Can't blame 'em really.

[Quasievil]

I love the way the regular Quasi baggers come out with their little snide remarks lol.
funny.......they have plenty of opportunity to say it to me face but gutless are they.:yes:

Anyway back on topic, I wonder what other industries intentionally block out internet based business to protect the "physical retail addressed retailers", anyone know of any , what about the computer industry, is that the same ?

[tri boy]

I can see both sides of the situation.
Firstly, I think the wholesalers probably like a solid retail experience via a shop displaying their goods day in day out in the flesh so to speak.

But Brett maybe also on the edge of a shift in wholesale/retail/online shopping.
Interesting times.

It's hard to beat the knowledge of guys like John at Boyds, especially when a new rider wants to be kitted out for the first time.
But seasoned riders could by the same products through Quasi if the wholesalers could see a large turnover of stock.
A large purchase order of their stock could certainly change their idea............possibly:sunny:

[championshipdigital]

Its so interesting to me that all the motorcycle shop retailers are utilizing the internet as a sales tool for Wholesaler imported brands.
Wholesalers supporting such ventures in a significant way is two faced as as they wont support allow established internet sellers their product lines, based on what exactly we dont have a full on retail presence, is that it ? and errr why?

You think a NZ Wholesaler will supply me boots or Helmets or whatever........nah !!
It will be and is the demise of the retail and wholesale structure as guys like me start to consider parallel importing.

NZ is so Backward.

But good luck with your site

So let's look at the argument from a different perspective - why don't you open a shop? Surely there would be loads of benefits if you did?

[Henk]

This is where it all gets messy. As soon as you open a shop or start to grey import your own all the advantages behind the online only business model fall over. You have the same overheads to do with rent and wages as every other shop and you have a huge amount of working capital tied up in stock. Real cost of holding inventory runs to about 30% of the cost of that inventory per anum. Not to mention the risks that go with holding enough stock to cover orders in a timely manner and not getting stuck with a whole lot of slow moving garbage that nobody wants.
I'm a fan of brick and mortar stores since I can go and try stuff on, if as predicted earlier in the thread it all goes online I'm not sure I'd be all that confident buying all my riding gear without the chance to try before I buy. We all know that six different brands of boot in the same size are going to feel different and can range from great to crap.
In the past five years or so the whle industry was booming and there was a new shop poping up nearly week, now that things aren't so great a lot of them are falling over, sad but just part of the business cycle, I'd say that the ones that will survive in the long run are brick and mortar stores that also go online, at least I hope so. I'd like to be in a position in five years where I can still bail out to a store on a weekend to grab the plug or tyre that I've just discovered I need for the following day.

[SS90]

Really. OK here I go

Alpinestar, Spidi, Dianese, Shift, Rjays, Dririder, Tecknic, joe Rocket, Revit, Truimph, Harley Davidson,Neo, Macna, Draggin, Axo,AGV, Berik, RST, motowear , magello, GP star, Leoshi, Spool, BMW, SPYKE, OXford, Nortech, Motoline, Ixion, M2R, Orina ,

There is 31 brands available in Hamilton right now for example.

There are 4 odd bike shops.

Who is saturating the market?


Oh, ok, we are on a different page..... By market saturation, I mean the market is saturated by RETAILERS, not BRANDS..... The large amount of brands is a welcome change ( well quality brands I mean), the large amount of online retailers is not...... The market is just too small.

[Quasievil]

Oh, ok, we are on a different page.....

:facepalm:LOL all good, didnt think you where on my thinking, seemed weird.

[Quasievil]

This is where it all gets messy. As soon as you open a shop or start to grey import your own all the advantages behind the online only business model fall over.

Yeah , not a good time to open a Motorcycle related business, let alone a retail store, to much for this dude anyway.

[Slyer]

The only goods better than wholesale goods is stolen goods!
Can't beat those prices.

[Quasievil]

The large amount of brands is a welcome change ( well quality brands I mean), the large amount of online retailers is not...... The market is just too small.

Actually on that, the whole reason we started several years ago was their really was little in the way of leather gear on offer, now of course there is heaps.
there was a large gap in the market back then.

[Scouse]

Cheers for that Scouse, I will re model based on your personaGood come back quasi but I can aford my online persona becuase I am not trying to build relationships with potential Wholesale suppliers or customers eh.

[Crazy Steve]

Jeeze man, get off your Soap Box will ya.

Simply put, your overheads, no matter how high they are to you, are a piffle compared to an average Bike Shop, and, as such, retail items have to have a margin in them that reflect the higher overheads.

Internet Based "Stores" can offer the same product at lower prices, simply because they don't need the same turn over as a shop with higher overheads to achieve the same end of year profit.

Simple really, and good on the NZ wholesalers for sticking to their guns in protecting their established dealers.

Wowers your really onto it ! ! Did you come up with all that shit yourself or did you dredge it up from an old thread from maybe 2003 ? ?

Fckin Handicap Nation when people like this Muppet are stating the obivoius ! ! !

Crazy Steve.

[Crazy Steve]

Anyway........

Who the fck pays Retail ? ? ? If you do and you still are you must have way to much MONEY ! ! !

Crazy Steve..

[SS90]

Wowers your really onto it ! ! Did you come up with all that shit yourself or did you dredge it up from an old thread from maybe 2003 ? ?

Fckin Handicap Nation when people like this Muppet are stating the obivoius ! ! !

Crazy Steve.

15 years in the industry Steve. Just stating the obvious because the basics never change.

When the bike gear boom happened in NZ there indeed was a hole to fill, but now because the online business's can survive in the slow time ( primarily due to the fact that they have no real staff, and, more often than not, an MD with a day job), so their overheads ( comparatively ) are a fraction of an established bike shop on main street.

Just to SURVIVE the established bike shops are having to level the playing fields, and to do so is to have a larger on line presence...... Quasi believes it is copy others business models, I say it is just leveling the playing field.

[Quasievil]

Good come back quasi but I can aford my online persona becuase I am not trying to build relationships with potential Wholesale suppliers or customers eh.

So can I, my reputation is outstanding:yes:

Anyway Must dash

[Mully]

I'd be interested to know how much of the distributors' reluctance to supply online-only stores (i.e. Quasi in this case) - is due to pressure from the retailers to not undermine the long-term existing business.

[wysper]

Part of it can be that the Supplier believes (rightly or wrongly) that the end user may be reluctant to buy from an retailer who is online only.
And also is reluctant to supply someone who MAY undercut the RRP to such an extent that the bricks and mortar retailer suffers, also brand perception can suffer too.

The supplier may have agreements in place not to supply online retailers.

The supplier might not wish to deal with certain dealers.

None of this may apply to Quasi at all, just an opinion.

(sorry Quasi, I read through this a couple of days ago and can't remember if you addressed some of the above points or not. these are just broad general comments, not specific!!)

[imdying]

Clearly if the existing business' are that susceptible to being undercut in that manner, then they're adding no value, and deserve to go the way of the dodo.

[wysper]

I would have to disagree with you there, but that is going considerably off this threads topic to reply. :yes:

[SS90]

Interesting.

I believe the reasons some wholesalers won't supply Internet based sellers is primarily brand protection followed by protecting their established retainers who, prior to the Internet age, where the wholesalers "bread and butter".

It is logical.... What do the internet based sellers have in their favour? PRICE, they constantly market themselves as cheaper. If a wholesaler was to supply an Internet based seller a brand of Helmet for example, to compete with an established bricks and mortar business, the Internet based seller will clearly make it cheaper, and as there is only so much business to go around, the establishes business will lose out.

Not a nice way to treat your long termers is it?

[Henk]

And if you decided to alienate the established bick and mortar stores, who in my opinion do add value, why bother with online only businesses to resell. Would make more sense in that case to go to online sales direct and cut out, or collect another chunk of margin.

[Hitcher]

It's not just about price. It's also about service. I refer to my conversation-killing example: the 3XL helmet. Bike shops can be as nice as pie and trumpet the merits of the myriad of pinhead helmets they stock about which I give not a fuck, but they're not going to stock a 3XL on the basis that they'll only sell one a decade. They won't get a sample in on a sale-or-return basis because the distributors don't hold them either (apart from Shoeis or HJCs in black only). I understand that. So please don't get all pious and sniffy when I buy one ex-USA or ex-UK.

[SS90]

It's not just about price. It's also about service. I refer to my conversation-killing example: the 3XL helmet. Bike shops can be as nice as pie and trumpet the merits of the myriad of pinhead helmets they stock about which I give not a fuck, but they're not going to stock a 3XL on the basis that they'll only sell one a decade. They won't get a sample in on a sale-or-return basis because the distributors don't hold them either (apart from Shoeis or HJCs in black only). I understand that. So please don't get all pious and sniffy when I buy one ex-USA or ex-UK.

Fair enough.