Standing up

[Snails pace]

Ok you professionals. I have been playing round standing as I ride through a few greasy mud patches on our farm tracks. Though I have spent most of my life on the seat on trail bikes negotiated boggy areas I am happy enough standing changing gear, breaking etc. My question is that while standing my fulcrum / center of balance would be more over the front wheel. In a oh damn situation I would be over the handle bars.
So is this normal get use to it?
Should i keep the knees slightly bent which brings balance back slightly? The old bones creak a tad.
Try tipping the bars back a bit more?
The bike is a Dr650 with safari tank. Standard bars but I have put on 50mm risers. On a good day I stand 180cm tall.
Any suggestions gratefully received.

[Oscar]

Stand up, lean forward slightly elbows at right angles, knees bent with the balls of your feet on the footpegs.

This enables you to move your body weight according to the situation - where the front end might knife in to soft ground, lean back to lighten the front end (on sand, I sit down, way back on the seat).

[NordieBoy]

I just cannot get the hang of standing with the balls of my feet on the pegs.
Hmmm... May be a good calf stretching exercise.

I sit with them there but not standing.

Also I cannot rear brake whilst standing.

[dino3310]

when i got my little tank on i pretty go with oscas technique, but when the 22ltr tanks on i have to bend out slightly to accomadate such a fat thing between my legs and i get tired real fast, but with the 10ltr tank on its a breeze

[wysper]

when i got my little tank on i pretty go with oscas technique, but when the 22ltr tanks on i have to bend out slightly to accomadate such a fat thing between my legs and i get tired real fast, but with the 10ltr tank on its a breeze

If someone doesn't make a dirty comment about this post, I will be sorely disappointed.

[george formby]

You said you wanted a professional opinion so don't listen to me....
I was taught to ride on Trials bikes, standing up %90 of the time. Wether you have the balls of your feet or instep on the pegs is a matter of grip & comfort. For me, the whole point of standing up is to use my legs as shock absorbers over rough ground & to maximise how my weight helps the bike gain traction, wheelie over obstacles, slide & keep the bike upright while turning without washing out the front.
You can't stand like a pole, the whole point is to move appropriately to cover the terrain. It doe's keep you fit..

[NordieBoy]

when i got my little tank top on i pretty and i have to bend out slightly to accomadate such a fat thing between my legs and i get tired real fast

Too much information.

[wysper]

Thats some nice editing nordie. Well done. Gold star for you.

I am a noob to adventure riding, and starting to really get the hang of the standing up thing.

I will be looking to get some advice on bar set up etc next time I get out with a few of the guys on an adventure ride.

I think I will leave the pegs where they are for now and look for maybe bar risers and different shaped bars (since i bent them on my last ride... well the beach did really - bastard)

[dino3310]

Too much information.

cheeky prick :motu: your lucky i like your DR if not i would have to come down there and give you a right royal spankin:shutup:

[dino3310]

I am a noob to adventure riding, and starting to really get the hang of the standing up thing.


shit ive been here a while and i still cant get the hang of it :laugh:

[NordieBoy]

I will be looking to get some advice on bar set up etc next time I get out with a few of the guys on an adventure ride.

I think I will leave the pegs where they are for now and look for maybe bar risers and different shaped bars (since i bent them on my last ride... well the beach did really - bastard)

Ideally I'd like my bar/peg distance increased another 3cm for standing but I don't want to increase my seat/bar distance as sitting is pretty much perfect although a cm or 2 forward with the bars would be nice.

Dropping the pegs even further I can easily get another 3-4cm.

[Oscar]

Ideally I'd like my bar/peg distance increased another 3cm for standing but I don't want to increase my seat/bar distance as sitting is pretty much perfect although a cm or 2 forward with the bars would be nice.

Dropping the pegs even further I can easily get another 3-4cm.

I put some 25mm risers on, that did the trick.
The 950 is so easy to ride standing up, you can forget that yer on a big bike.
This sometimes allows the overconfidence fairy to turn up and smack you upside yer heed, like...

[Eddieb]

I put some 25mm risers on, that did the trick.
The 950 is so easy to ride standing up, you can forget that yer on a big bike.

I put the KTM risers on my 950 over the weekend, one of the best mods I've done to it so far.

I put 30mm risers on the PD and that made a big difference there too.

[twisty]

I reckon it's mostly about the distance between handle bars and pegs. A standard trail bike is about 85-90 cm. Which is cool if your say 5 10" and you want to stand in an attack position for MX or just want to sit.

On my Gas Gas I pushed this to 108 cm (my adventure bikes are now nearer 100cm) which makes siting a bit less comfortable and a MX attack position (with quickly sitting and rising for corners) not quite as good.

The reason I did this is to get me off my ass because I've spent most of my time riding sitting down (I'm 6 3") which was killing my back. Road riding hasn't made much difference and because I can just sort of stand and ride I feel like the chick from the Titanic movie "I'm flying Jack I'm flying".

[Waihou Thumper]

When there is a camera......Ain't that the truth guys? :woohoo:
Then we fall off some of the time too.....when there is a camera....
Thing is, wouldn't it be nice to take high speed turns, change gear, operate the brakes achieved standing up...:gob:
Hard enough to stand up when that monkeybutt gets us some of the time aye! :facepalm:

[Phreaky Phil]

Standing up is good until you loose the front, then your usually on the ground before you can get a leg down. BUT, dont let that stop you riding standing up, especially offroad. Far better control. You can move your weight around. Heres a short clip of me On a WR450 http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wr450+taranaki+motorcycle+adv enture&aq=f

[Woodman]

yea i stand quite a lot now, used to hate it but once you get used to it it is so much better. My klr has a ims tank which makes my legs splay out a bit and the footpegs are too far forward, but its ok ish.

its amazing the control you can get with foot weight. Try lifting your left foot off the peg and turning right (and vice versa)on gnarly stuff. works really good.

[Snails pace]

Thanks for the info guys and the humour. I will keep tootling along.

[pampa]

don't quite agree with that (I'm no expert though) ... I've found that standing helps there as well. You can keep one foot on the peg and the other one help you regain balance while staying on the throttle ...



Standing up is good until you loose the front, then your usually on the ground before you can get a leg down. BUT, dont let that stop you riding standing up, especially offroad. Far better control. You can move your weight around. Heres a short clip of me On a WR450 http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wr450+taranaki+motorcycle+adv enture&aq=f

[NordieBoy]

I put some 25mm risers on, that did the trick.
The 950 is so easy to ride standing up, you can forget that yer on a big bike.
This sometimes allows the overconfidence fairy to turn up and smack you upside yer heed, like...

My bars are about 6cm higher than stock already.

Fluffycats 990 felt a lot smaller than I thought it would and it felt very DR'ish to ride - apart from the engine...

I can see why there's a number of ex-DR riders on the big ADV's.

[bart]

What....so you guys actually sit..........

Dirt bike background I guess, but I always stand when riding on loose surfaces. As for the loosing the front thing, I don't agree. By constantly loading and unloading the front wheel (as simple as moving your weight forward or back) you soon learn how much grip you have. It can be quicker to lean back and unload the front than dabbing a foot.....for me anyway, being 5 foot FA.

By getting your weight off the side of the bike on corners you can keep maximum grip with maximum momentum (or fishtail like a bastard if you keep weight forward as well) :woohoo::woohoo:

[warewolf]

Standing up will stop you losing the front, because you will have more control and are able to correct faster. And losing the front is not a game-breaker, as you are in the right position to correct/catch it. Never give up, always ride the bike into the ground as it is amazing what you and/or the bike can save. You can also see further ahead, which gives you more time to plan/ pick your line.

The main thing to remember with standing up, is that your head ALWAYS should be over the handlebars. Move your bum/knees to shift your body weight. Set the bike up so that all the controls are easy to use while standing, 'cos you are only sitting down when nothing untoward is happening and you have extra time to get to the controls if they are a little awkward. When the shit hits the fan you are standing up and want all the controls just right there.

[Padmei]

Interesting.
Funnily enough the fastest guys I've ridden with & watched on TV/DVD have sat more than stood up. This is over flat & medium technical.

[wysper]

When there is a camera......Ain't that the truth guys? :woohoo:
Then we fall off some of the time too.....when there is a camera....
T


Absolutely love this! There is a lot of truth here young padawan LOL




The main thing to remember with standing up, is that your head ALWAYS should be over the handlebars. Move your bum/knees to shift your body weight.

Is this purely a balance thing? In a way it is hard to have your head anywhere else as the fact that you are standing up reaching for the bars and your feet are slightly behind you, you are almost forced to lean forward anyway. Not completely true as in traffic I can stand straight up no dramas but when you get a bit of pace on you tend to lean forward.

So I assume if your head is further back your balance will be screwed?

[Snails pace]

Just a follow up. I have tilted my bars back a tad and my center of balance is now more towards the center of the bike. Much more comfortable. I was never any good with maths at school, but when standing my arms to the bars would be approx 45 degrees. All I need to do now is crash a couple of times to see what hits first the feet or things higher up:laugh:

[Monstaman]

When the shit hits the fan you are standing up and want all the controls just right there.

... and when that shit stalls the fan completely it is far easier to bail off and run over the top like a total gonk :yes: .... voice of experience after doing David Attenborough nature observation :headbang:

I road ride a lot and have the ball of my foot on the peg, great for control and ground clearance thus I carried this through while ADV riding, I have seen guys snag the toe of their boots and cause offs and worst an injury so I would encourage the higher the better to within reason.

[NordieBoy]

I have seen guys snag the toe of their boots and cause offs and worst an injury so I would encourage the higher the better to within reason.

When seated my toes point down quite a bit so I learned to ride with the balls of my feet on the pegs so it didn't hurt so much...

Quite funny actually when your left foot is suddenly doing zero kph and the rest of you is still doing 40. It'd make good video footage especially in slow motion.

[Monstaman]

When seated my toes point down quite a bit

... now this is when it IS worth while being a hobbit :laugh:

I also adjusted my gear lever up a bit, when we did Waiakia Bush Road with Matt (matsdaker) I rode into the ruts and the rut edge knocked the old bag into neutral.

So I looked like a total dork with max revs on standing (with balls of my feet on the pegs) upright wedged and not going anywhere and trying to balance and not go over the bars as the bike ground to a halt. :facepalm:

[PeteJ]

Interesting.
Funnily enough the fastest guys I've ridden with & watched on TV/DVD have sat more than stood up. This is over flat & medium technical.

Yup.

Bikes have seats for a reason.

Trials bikes have next to no seats for a reason.

[JATZ]

Standing up is good until you loose the front, then your usually on the ground before you can get a leg down.

I think the quickest lie down I had was when standing..... 1 second I was cruising along nicely the next I was rolling along the ground with the bike making strange noises next to me, it really was a split second between the 2 :shit:

[Woodman]

...

I have seen guys snag the toe of their boots and cause offs and worst an injury so I would encourage the higher the better to within reason.

A broken bone in my right foot can vouch for that:crybaby:

[Phreaky Phil]

My comment on loosing the front when standing up not only comes from personal experience but from Kiwi (turned Aussie:angry:)Legend Steffan Merriman. I was at an ISDE training school way back (97 i think) and Steffan was talking to us about the Pros and Cons of the different riding techniques, sitting verses standing. He was raised a Trials rider so stands ALL the time but said that you can loose the front and not be able to get a foot down in time to save it. He then went out onto the track (In the middle of Riverhead forest) and did some demo laps and embarrassingly had a getoff. Lost the front end on some slick stuff. Shaun Clarke also did some demo laps. He has a more sit down riding style. With a foot out you can slide the front. Steffan also mentioned that a lot of the Euro riders sat a lot and were incredibly fast. MX riders stand a lot but sit to turn the bike.
When the ground is rough its easier to go quick standing but its a lot more tiring to ride standing. Modern dirtbikes have there bars a lot further forward, and a lot flatter bend to make standing easier. The older 80's & 90's bikes were hard to stand on for a long time because of the reward rake of the bars.

[Peril]

I do the same thing,sit in the slippery stuff and stand when its rough.Countless times I've saved the front by being able slam a foot down when the front tucks under while sitting.

[bart]

In MX, sitting and sticking a foot out certainly helps when turning a hairpin. I haven't seen many gravel roads where this style is required (for me). Only when I get in the shit and start overshooting a corner.

I think for me, standing gives more control of both the front and back. Sliding the rear end is more controlled because you can move your weight, grip with knees, and get more leverage on the bars.

Don't get me wrong though, I've found times when I've had a new tyre on the back and the sit down foot sticky out method works better. Must be when the grippy back is causing the front to sledge.

[NordieBoy]

Sit down, foot out only works properly with good knobs as you're trying to dig for traction whilst leaned over.

Standing also let's you work around balder tyres...

[Phreaky Phil]

Getting that foot forward helps transfer weight to the front. Supermoto guys been doin it for years and MotoGP guys doin it now. Hard to do it on a Beemer tho. Cylinder's in the bloodt way !

[warewolf]

Is this purely a balance thing? In a way it is hard to have your head anywhere else as the fact that you are standing up reaching for the bars and your feet are slightly behind you, you are almost forced to lean forward anyway. Not completely true as in traffic I can stand straight up no dramas but when you get a bit of pace on you tend to lean forward.You can easily move your head a helmet-width forward/back from the bars and not be in the right position. If standing forces a lean then you might need bar risers. As the speed comes up, or the terrain more technical, I find an MX "standing" attack position works so much better. It's a bit of a misnomer in that it is really a crouch with your back nearly horizontal - head over the bars though.

[warewolf]

A lot of my comments come from training with people like Greg Power (you may have heard of one of his other students, S.Merriman) and Nick Reader, among others. Greg doesn't have much MX background so prefers standing unless resting by sitting on the smooth stuff. Nick's got more MX experience so promotes MX-style seated cornering. IIRC foot-forward was not recommended.

Foot forward is fine for sumo or motogp guys, as they know with a high degree of certainty that this corner on the track will be as smooth as it was 90 seconds ago... For adventure riders, it's useful for smooth gravel hairpins you can see through but probably not warranted the rest of the time. Heck if you've got energy to burn holding your inside leg horizontal, and constantly swapping legs in the twisty stuff we seem to ride in, then you wouldn't be concerned about standing up being tiring in the slightest.

Insteps are fine and/or recommended, but so is keeping your toes up and in, so your feet don't get ripped off by rocks, ruts and tree stumps. It allows you to operate the foot levers, too.

[wysper]

hmm there is lots to consider there.
Looks like I might have to increase the distance between the pegs and the bars.
I like the idea of almost a metre difference. Mine is 90cm.

Means I don't feel completely comfortable standing up.

time to take some advice in person me thinks!!

[NordieBoy]

My bar to peg distance is about 940mm.

Once I lower the pegs a bit more it'll be closer to 1000mm.