New laws to improve your motoring

[davereid]

Highlights of the Ministry of Transports Safer Journeys plan for you to enjoy


- Further evaluation of extending the learner licence period from six to twelve months
- Further evaluation of compulsory third party vehicle insurance
- Support the future introduction of random roadside drug testing
- Implement targeted programmes of treatments for popular motorcycle routes
- Increase the use of cameras for routine speed control (speed and red light) to allow Police to focus on higher risk drivers
-Rebalance penalties for speed with higher demerits and lower fines and investigate adding demerits and reducing fines for speed cameras
- Investigate the use of point-to-point speed cameras
- Develop a GPS-based speed management system across the network, and develop trials and initial applications for ISA and other emerging Intelligent Transport Systems
- improve the safety of riders who have returned to motorcycling after a long absence and whose skills are likely to have deteriorated
- Employ new technologies to restrict high risk drivers

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Key things here from my point of view... with what I think it may mean

Demerit points from speed camera fines..
This must mean an assumption that the registered owner is the driver, or that he will provide the data on who was driving. For many of us with families, a ticket arriving three weeks after the offence will mean Dad wears it.

This is the current situation with speed cameras and parking tickets, as if you cant identify who parked the car, thats tough, you get to pay the fine anyway. Of course demerit points are a lot more serious than a fine.

* VIC roads has been trying to get motorcycle front number plates for this reason - so they can offer a front on photo to help identify the driver. (VIC roads Front number plates remains "under active investigation with no current solution found")

Point to point cameras..
Same deal - demerits instead of or as well as fines ? with automatic assumption that the registered owner is guilty, with massive penalties even if he is genuinely unable to identify the driver ?

GPS Speed management
Fitted to your vehicle to allow either control of your speed automatically, or periodic downloading so your fines and demerits can be applied ?

Improve the safety of returning bikers
Automatic removal of licence classes if you don't have a vehicle in the class for more than a designated period ? Thus making retuning riders "learners" again ?

Employ new technologies to restrict high risk drivers
Alcohol interlocks ?
GPS speed enforcement technology ?
The equivalent of the prisoners "ankle bracelet" fixed to your motorcycle ?

[duckonin]

None of this will work !! What is needed for all drivers, riders ect is a micro chip with relevant data 'road rules' and the like embeded into the back of their head before they ride or drive....There would still be a few prangs due to corrupt data..:shit:

[p.dath]

I'm pretty happy with this. This is what came out of the safer journeys consultation document.



- Further evaluation of extending the learner licence period from six to twelve months
- Further evaluation of compulsory third party vehicle insurance


I support further evaluation of our current systems to see if they can be improved.



- Implement targeted programmes of treatments for popular motorcycle routes


To put this in context, this was to do with treatments of the road - how can the roads be made safer at motorcycle black spots.



- Increase the use of cameras for routine speed control (speed and red light) to allow Police to focus on higher risk drivers


If I recall correctly, there has been an increase on red light runners, and the primary driver was to get more red light cameras. Could have remembered wrongly.



-Rebalance penalties for speed with higher demerits and lower fines and investigate adding demerits and reducing fines for speed cameras


Moving to demerits and away from fines was being pushed hard to get away from the "revenue collectors" image. So this is for everyone who would rather loose their licence for demerits instead of getting a fine and complaining that the Police are revenue collecting instead of just doing their job.

Personally, I think it is a good move. The problem with fines is it affects people differently. A fine could be a weeks wages for one person, and a days wages for another.
Demerits affect all road users equally, with equal consequences.



- Investigate the use of point-to-point speed cameras


This is going to happen eventually, no mater what. It means your average speed will be measured over the length of a road. So slowing down for the camera and then speeding up again won't work anymore. I think it will be a while before the speed camera network are re-fitted to support this.



Demerit points from speed camera fines..
This must mean an assumption that the registered owner is the driver, or that he will provide the data on who was driving. For many of us with families, a ticket arriving three weeks after the offence will mean Dad wears it.


Dad will wear the speed camera ticket now if he can't say who was using the vehicle.
It just means if you are the registered owner of a vehicle you have to be responsible enough to keep a record of who used the vehicle when. Not hard really. And if you can't be arsed to do this simple task then you'll have to accept the consequences.

This is the current situation with speed cameras and parking tickets, as if you cant identify who parked the car, thats tough, you get to pay the fine anyway. Of course demerit points are a lot more serious than a fine.



GPS Speed management
Fitted to your vehicle to allow either control of your speed automatically, or periodic downloading so your fines and demerits can be applied ?


No - fitted to the road side to measure your average speed between two different points on a road.



Improve the safety of returning bikers
Automatic removal of licence classes if you don't have a vehicle in the class for more than a designated period ? Thus making retuning riders "learners" again ?


I'd prefer a "suspension" of unused classes, rather than a removal. Then there can be a process to get those riders with a suspended class up to speed. Otherwise you can't identify them from brand new riders, who may need different treatment. Don't know how you could make it work practically though.



Employ new technologies to restrict high risk drivers
Alcohol interlocks ?


Alcohol Interlocks have already been approved. You'll probably find the "new technologies" don't exist yet. There just making provision of things that will come along.

[Scuba_Steve]

Highlights of the Ministry of Transports Safer Journeys plan for you to enjoy

- Further evaluation of compulsory third party vehicle insurance

This will only increase cost with NO advantage. Just look at the Brits they continue to have trouble with it not only getting people to comply but also a lot of insurance fraud (purposely causing at crash for the pay out) and last AA study into it showed 96% are insured anyways and of those that weren't 84% cant be.


- Increase the use of cameras for routine speed control (speed and red light) to allow Police to focus on higher risk drivers

These are shown again & again & again to increase accident rates. They make roads more dangerous NOT safer


-Rebalance penalties for speed with higher demerits and lower fines and investigate adding demerits and reducing fines for speed cameras

This would have more affect than current, moneys money you make it you lose it but demerit points have an effect


- Investigate the use of point-to-point speed cameras

again contrary to the objective

If they want to make the roads safer scrap speed scams and any "speed" related offence should come under dangerous driving meaning we can get on with driving at a safe comfortable speed & only those who ARE dangerous will be charged! also stop giving dangerous old people a free pass "because they're old" & re-offending drunk drivers NEED to be dealt with!

[gazmascelle]

im all for cameras at intersections. Almost been hit a few times by people running red lights lately

[Banditbandit]

People people people .. they are infringing on our freedom ...

In a typical authoritarian style those im power are coming up with what, on face value, appear to be good reasons to impinge on our freedom ... but these are NOT good reasons to do so ...

There are many comments in this forum on how PC and controlling and stupid our OSH laws are ... but the same people want these road rules ... ???? Can't you see where this is leading ???? We will have a totally controlled road environment ... Frankly I'd rather walk ...

In Europe many roads are open speed limit - or much higher than in Godzone ... (Yes, I know our roads are not that great ... but many here have opened the throttle and done those kind of speeds on our roads ... what does that say about our roads ???) and most European countries don't have the high death toll we do ... despite the higher speed limit) Education is the key - not words on a bit of paper or mechanical limiters ...

I, for one refuse, to give anyone claiming some spurious authority any power over me at all ...

(Some watery tart distributing swords is no mandate for executive authority)

[DEATH_INC.]

im all for cameras at intersections. Almost been hit a few times by people running red lights lately
Me too!
..................

[p.dath]

People people people .. they are infringing on our freedom ...

In a typical authoritarian style those im power are coming up with what, on face value, appear to be good reasons to impinge on our freedom ... but these are NOT good reasons to do so ...


I hope you expressed your opinion to the Government when they asked for the Safer Journeys submissions. The Government does not contain mind readers.

The Government does what the people ask for, and in this case, this is what the majority of the people asked for.

[Genestho]

Indeed - the public consultation was well publicised last year, this was the chance to get in amongst it.

Anyway the summary of findings from the public consultation are attached...http://www.badd.co.nz/files/SaferJourneys_summary_of_submissions.pdf

And first actions...http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjourneys/Documents/Safer%20Journeys%20First%20Actions.pdf

[duckonin]

I hope you expressed your opinion to the Government when they asked for the Safer Journeys submissions. The Government does not contain mind readers.

The Government does what the people ask for, and in this case, this is what the majority of the people asked for.

Do you actually believe the shit you write ???:facepalm:

Mind readers !! do they even have a mind ?:yes:

[davereid]

Indeed - the public consultation was well publicised last year, this was the chance to get in amongst it.]


Yes, I made submissions on various areas. As usual, the government are proceeding with business as usual regardless of submissions.

For example, submitters said, speed enforcement was less important than skill levels.

The government appears to have listened to the bits it liked by making licences and training harder,

but ignored the bits it didn't like by introducing stricter and harder penalties for speeding, and adding an extra layer of automatic electronic enforcement.

Which submitters precisely were clamouring for demerit points on speed cameras and the introduction of automatic number plate recognition cameras ?


I await the cries when a speeding ticket for the family car rocks in, 6 weeks after the offence, and everyone in the household denys it.

So the owner cops the points.

Lets not worry about proof or any of that crap.

This is way to important to require that !

Someone has to pay, even if its just because they didn't know who was driving !

[Genestho]

Yes, I made submissions on various areas. As usual, the government are proceeding with business as usual regardless of submissions.

For example, submitters said, speed enforcement was less important than skill levels.

The government appears to have listened to the bits it liked by making licences and training harder,

but ignored the bits it didn't like by introducing stricter and harder penalties for speeding, and adding an extra layer of automatic electronic enforcement.

Which submitters precisely were clamouring for demerit points on speed cameras and the introduction of automatic number plate recognition cameras ?


I await the cries when a speeding ticket for the family car rocks in, 6 weeks after the offence, and everyone in the household denys it.

So the owner cops the points.

Lets not worry about proof or any of that crap.

This is way to important to require that !

Someone has to pay, even if its just because they didn't know who was driving !

Well I have to say, I personally don't know which submitters would have focussed on this area, how to find the info - maybe an OIA request to MOT - 20 working days - which would further depend on which submitters want information released to the public.

I guess it would have to boil down as to what the submitters size representation is, relevance and reasoning would be - which needs to be researched and shown as successful.
Also as to how many submissions were mirrored and therefore made into 1 submission - there was a bit of that going on here...

All I could suggest is to make another submission through select committee and request to produce an oral submission as well?

[davereid]

Well I have to say, I personally don't know which submitters would have focussed on this area, how to find the info - maybe an OIA request to MOT - 20 working days - which would further depend on which submitters want information released to the public.

I guess it would have to boil down as to what the submitters size representation is, and reasoning would be - which needs to be researched and proved as successful.
Also as to how many submissions were mirrored and therefor made into 1 submission - there was a bit of that going on here...

All I could suggest is to make another submission through select committee and ask to produce an oral submission as well?

Actually, I don't really think that it matters, or at least that our submissions matter.

Automatic number plate recognition, electronic number plates, GPS tracking etc are really driven by money, not safety, although governments clearly like to be able to pin it on safety.

The submitters would have been government organisations, ANPR and intelligent roading systems are coming to allow the abstraction of money, for tolls, congestion, carbon, whatever can be used to justify it. So they will arrive in time, regardless of any safety cost benefit.

Motorcycles just present a particular challenge, as they don't seem to work well with electronics tolling systems, lack front number plates etc etc.

The future will be toll roads, and public private partnership toll roads. Its not a matter of if you get a front number plate or electronic tag, its when, and what local road will force it on you.

[Genestho]

I'm not sure I can believe that our submissions don't matter, as I know the reality relating to lack of data behind lowering limits did appear to matter.

Did you have a squizz through the regulatory impact statments? I only looked through the alcohol related changes one myself..

[PirateJafa]

I await the cries when a speeding ticket for the family car rocks in, 6 weeks after the offence, and everyone in the household denys it.

So the owner cops the points.

Someone has to pay, even if its just because they didn't know who was driving !

Boo fucking hoo if simply putting a clipboard besides the keys to the cars is too difficult for you. It would take two seconds for someone to scribble their initials and the date/time as they grab the keys from the hook.

If a ticket arrives and there is nobody recorded as having used the car, and nobody is willing to 'fess up, then remove the privilege from everyone with access to it.

Some of the other points in the OP I'm a bit iffy about, but your bitching and whining on THAT point is just plain daft.

[davereid]

I'm not sure I can believe that our submissions don't matter, as I know the reality relating to lack of data behind lowering limits did appear to matter. Did you have a squizz through the regulatory impact statments? I only looked through the alcohol related changes one myself..

Yes actually "doesnt matter" was not the correct phrase.

I guess that my view is that as the technology for ANPR etc becomes available, it lends itself very nicely to tolling and so on, so those things will ensure its adoption.

[davereid]

Boo fucking hoo if simply putting a clipboard besides the keys to the cars is too difficult for you. It would take two seconds for someone to scribble their initials and the date/time as they grab the keys from the hook.



The entire world is not as well organised as the tiny little bit you keep your mind in.

In the real world, Mum does not always know which of the kids has the car. The kids don't know which of their mates has borrowed it to go to the shops. The boss doesn't know that the work van is doing an unauthorised trip to the pie shop, and I sincerely hope that you keep a diary in case the mechanic doing your oil change takes it for a test run and removes the last points on our licence for you.

You will be fine as long as you can prove he was riding eh !

[PirateJafa]

The entire world is not as well organised as the tiny little bit you keep your mind in.

In the real world, Mum does not always know which of the kids has the car. The kids don't know which of their mates has borrowed it to go to the shops. The boss doesn't know that the work van is doing an unauthorised trip to the pie shop, and I sincerely hope that you keep a diary in case the mechanic doing your oil change takes it for a test run and removes the last points on our licence for you.

You will be fine as long as you can prove he was riding eh !

See above regarding a clipboard next to the keys. And if your kids are letting their mates borrow it, just put the points on them for being irresponsible/unwilling to identify the true culprit. And in this situation, you should probably be looking at the larger problem of insurance etc anyway, or rather, the lack thereof (if you've got a fairly normal policy that only covers "named" drivers).

I don't know how slack your excuse for a job is, but if one of our work vehicles got a speeding ticket at 1:30pm, and the vehicle use/petrol hadn't been accounted for, there would be some serious questions being asked.

And it would be a piece of piss to avoid any points on your license for a ticket while it was in for a service, or are you one of the twats who never holds onto any invoices/receipts you receive? If so, then I guess you'd be stuck with the ticket, but hell, you seem to be dumb enough that you probably shouldn't be driving anyway.

Some personal responsibility wouldn't go amiss - though it seems to be a foreign concept to some people.

[Banditbandit]

I'm not sure I can believe that our submissions don't matter, as I know the reality relating to lack of data behind lowering limits did appear to matter.

Did you have a squizz through the regulatory impact statments? I only looked through the alcohol related changes one myself..

Did they take any notice of all our submissions on the ACC changes ????

NO

[Banditbandit]

Boo fucking hoo if simply putting a clipboard besides the keys to the cars is too difficult for you. It would take two seconds for someone to scribble their initials and the date/time as they grab the keys from the hook.


Like that's going to work in many households ...

[Banditbandit]

And it would be a piece of piss to avoid any points on your license for a ticket while it was in for a service, or are you one of the twats who never holds onto any invoices/receipts you receive? If so, then I guess you'd be stuck with the ticket, but hell, you seem to be dumb enough that you probably shouldn't be driving anyway.

Yeah ... the Twats are probably the majority of the population - not everyone is an organised control freak at home - at work maybe - but not at home ...

[Genestho]

Did they take any notice of all our submissions on the ACC changes ????

NO
For a start - different portfolio, but some would say driven by similar background policy.

Anyway - Can't agree, I know for a fact submissions were taken note of from different sectors and acted on (it was about more than just Motorcycle levies - you do realise?), and that there has been work done.

Regarding motorcycling - Motorcyclists and groups have their foot in the door because of actions, that is quite a significant achievment for the future that seems to be largely unrealised.

Is it really that preposterous of an idea to take some responsibility for the whereabouts of our own vehicles, or who's riding/driving them??:blink:

Blimey, not only have I and many others, been on the receiving end of that kind of attitude :facepalm: but I really do fear what's happening in this country because of it.

Most of our road safety issues are down to all of us as individuals, mostly you can't legislate for it, if we really want to change things - I'd suggest looking into our own backyard is the best place to start.

But of course, that'll never catch on. ;)

[p.dath]

Which submitters precisely were clamouring for demerit points on speed cameras and the introduction of automatic number plate recognition cameras ?


I'll put my hand up. I want more demerits and less fines. The punishment of a fine varies with your income. Those on a low income are more affected than those on a high income.

Demerits affect everyone the same.

[p.dath]

Like that's going to work in many households ...

If it's your vehicle, and you don't mind loosing your licence because of other people you have allowed to use the car then it's not an issue. If that is an issue for you then you'll work something out. If you can't be bothered enough to do that then perhaps owning a vehicle to use on NZ's shared public road network is not for you.

But it's a personal choice, so you choose to do whatever you like. No one is going to make you loose your licence in this case unless you *choose* to do nothing about it.

Come on, vehicle owners have to be responsible for their own vehicle. You can't throw up your hands and say it is everyone else's fault.

[p.dath]

Did they take any notice of all our submissions on the ACC changes ????

NO

Or would it be fairer to say that more notice was taken of some other much larger lobby groups, and the bigger groups won?

[st00ji]

im in favor of demerits over monetary fines for traffic offences.

then again, im the type of person who gets pinged once every couple of years at most - the demerits dont bother me, cos i know im not enough of a hoon to be in danger of losing my licence. fines piss me off! hah.

i do agree that demerits affect everyone equally though - and even though i have a selfish reason for liking this version of ticketing i think its better overall too.

im not a fan of this speeding carry on however. if it could be proven that doing 111km/hr on average over 5km or w/e was causing a significant number of accidents, then maybe. but i have made far too many trips setting my speed by my own personal standards and the conditions that present themselves to ever believe that 'speed kills'. seems to me its more a case of 'poor choices kill'

i like the above suggestion about dangerous driving and speeding - the guy doing 120-130 in the passing lane to get past the muppets speeding up from 80 to 110 is not hurting anyone! the same guy doing it on a blind corner, is a different story.

[Bald Eagle]

After my recent give way experience I'm in favour of Rule .303 fully jacketed.

[Scuba_Steve]

After my recent give way experience I'm in favour of Rule .303 fully jacketed.

unfortunately that rule was passed up, your stuck using RPG's or guided missile systems

[p.dath]

im not a fan of this speeding carry on however. if it could be proven that doing 111km/hr on average over 5km or w/e was causing a significant number of accidents, then maybe. but i have made far too many trips setting my speed by my own personal standards and the conditions that present themselves to ever believe that 'speed kills'. seems to me its more a case of 'poor choices kill'

I agree in that I'm not convinced that "speeding kills" either. If you really agree with that then set the speed limit at zero - and I bet you would find the vast majority of vehicles accidents happened with vehicles exceeding that speed limit.

And that is also the issue with "proof". The authorities can offer you proof that "speeding kills" - in the same way I can offer proof that exceeding a speed limit of zero kills. It's not the limit that is doing the killing.

[onearmedbandit]

Lets hope they don't ramp up the costs of track days!

They should just make roads that run alongside normal roads. However on these roads you have no speed limit. What' the cost? No ACC if you crash on these roads (impossible to claim you weren't by adoption of alien tracking technology), no free medical care. You need your own private insurance if you get in the shit. The savings from the road toll would pay for the network pretty soon (ok obviously not every road can be duplicated), tourists would flock for a legal high speed experience (need a special permit) injecting more money into our economy, jobs would be created across a broad spectrum.

It's a goer! Is it too late to add this to the submissions?

[davereid]

im not a fan of this speeding carry on however. if it could be proven that doing 111km/hr ....

It will be 3 km/hr same as VIC Roads

[davereid]

And it would be a piece of piss to avoid any points on your license for a ticket while it was in for a service

It would be like a parking ticket.

The NZTA man has a picture of the back of a man on a motorcycle, riding away from a speed camera.

Its your motorcycle. Its your problem.

Producing a receipt to show you were buying a pie, getting petrol, having you bike serviced will be irrelevant if you can not prove who was riding the bike.


Why not try it !
Go get a mate to park your bike in a no parking area.
Write to the council telling them it was your mate.
When he denies it, wait to see who they chase.

Get back to us.

[PirateJafa]

It would be like a parking ticket.

The NZTA man has a picture of the back of a man on a motorcycle, riding away from a speed camera.

Its your motorcycle. Its your problem.

Producing a receipt to show you were buying a pie, getting petrol, having you bike serviced will be irrelevant if you can not prove who was riding the bike.


Why not try it !
Go get a mate to park your bike in a no parking area.
Write to the council telling them it was your mate.
When he denies it, wait to see who they chase.

Get back to us.

Are you mentally feeble, or just acting like it?

Advise them of the name of your mechanic, send them a copy of the invoice showing that indeed it was in their care at the time, and explain the situation.

Pretty soon your mechanic will be riding very legally on all customers bikes, in order to keep his license in order to be able to continue to legally issue WOFs.

Edit: Actually, just ignore the [purely rhetorical] question, you've more than sufficiently answered it already. It's truly a wonder of the modern age that they've even brought computers into wards like yours.

EditEdit: Yes, it is a little more time-consuming than not getting a ticket at all. But that's your fault for using a dumb-fuck untrustworthy mechanic.

[Scuba_Steve]

I agree in that I'm not convinced that "speeding kills" either. If you really agree with that then set the speed limit at zero - and I bet you would find the vast majority of vehicles accidents happened with vehicles exceeding that speed limit.

And that is also the issue with "proof". The authorities can offer you proof that "speeding kills" - in the same way I can offer proof that exceeding a speed limit of zero kills. It's not the limit that is doing the killing.

well if you look at the "facts" "speeding" saves lives only 24% of fatalities (08-09) were "speeding" meaning 76% happened within speed limit Thus the "facts" show that by "speeding" your more likely to save your life... Statistics aint they great???:laugh:

[davereid]

Are you mentally feeble,...It's truly a wonder of the modern age that they've even brought computers into wards like yours...that's your fault for using a dumb-fuck untrustworthy mechanic...


Is your period late sweetie ?

[Banditbandit]

If it's your vehicle, and you don't mind loosing your licence because of other people you have allowed to use the car then it's not an issue. If that is an issue for you then you'll work something out. If you can't be bothered enough to do that then perhaps owning a vehicle to use on NZ's shared public road network is not for you.

But it's a personal choice, so you choose to do whatever you like. No one is going to make you loose your licence in this case unless you *choose* to do nothing about it.

Come on, vehicle owners have to be responsible for their own vehicle. You can't throw up your hands and say it is everyone else's fault.

I have no personal interest in that piece of the legislation - I have no kids, so them taking a vehicle is not an issue ... My wife and I own a 4X4 - she drives it mostly and I could pinpoint the days I do drive it ... because I only use it when I NEED four wheels ... and no-one else drives it ...

I have two bikes ... my wife doesn't ride them and NEITHER DOES ANYONE ELSE ...

So I know where my vehicles are and who drives them .. and on what days ... So your personalizing of this particular issue is way off the mark ...

[MarkH]

Improve the safety of returning bikers
Automatic removal of licence classes if you don't have a vehicle in the class for more than a designated period ? Thus making retuning riders "learners" again ?

Is this just for bikers? What about my car license, I don't currently own a car - does that mean I am not allowed to drive other peoples cars? What about my truck license (Class 2 & 4) - I have never owned a truck, but I have driven a few.

So if I owned several bikes and let someone else ride one of them they couldn't legally hold a m/cycle license because they didn't own their own bike and their license would just automatically be removed?
If someone didn't own a bike but was an experienced biker and hired a bike every year for a biking holiday then they would soon have their bike license automatically removed?

I'm predicting that this measure wont eventuate due to it not being illegal to ride other peoples bikes and not actually own one yourself. Just like when I first got my car license and was driving mum's car.

[Max Preload]

Pretty hard to give demerit points to a company vehicle using a speed camera, since as it's not owned by any natural person there's no licence to apply them to.

[p.dath]

Pretty hard to give demerit points to a company vehicle using a speed camera, since as it's not owned by any natural person there's no licence to apply them to.

I would think a suitably large fine that gets wiped if the driver's details get handed over would solve that issue.

[Max Preload]

I would think a suitably large fine that gets wiped if the driver's details get handed over would solve that issue.No.

You must really love tyranny though. Perhaps North Korea is more your style.

[p.dath]

No.

You must really love tyranny though. Perhaps North Korea is more your style.

Only when I'm the leader.

[Banditbandit]

Only when I'm the leader.

Remind me never to vote for you ..

[myvice]

Hmmm… Chaos breads opportunity.

[QUOTE=davereid]
-Investigate the use of point-to-point speed cameras
- Develop a GPS-based speed management system across the network, and develop trials and initial applications for ISA and other emerging Intelligent Transport System. [QUOTE=davereid]

Sweet!
Any bets where I’ll be putting a chain of roadside coffee kiosks?

[QUOTE=davereid]
Fitted to your vehicle to allow either control of your speed automatically, or periodic downloading so your fines and demerits can be applied? [QUOTE=davereid]

[QUOTE=p.dath]No - fitted to the road side to measure your average speed between two different points on a road. [QUOTE=p.dath]

Really, so why GPS then? The roads don’t move and they are looking at a point to point with the cameras.
GPS would need to be attached to your bike, repeat offenders?

[QUOTE=p.dath]
Only when I'm the leader. [QUOTE=p.dath]

Bit of a cunt really aren’t you…

[kinger]

Bit of a cunt really aren’t you…

I was thinking arse, or prick.
Generally, we can agree it's a crutch area thing.

[BoristheBiter]

I'll put my hand up. I want more demerits and less fines. The punishment of a fine varies with your income. Those on a low income are more affected than those on a high income.

Demerits affect everyone the same.

No it doesn't.
Someone who gets the bus every day drives in the weekend (100km per week).
someone on call drives company car to work (500km per week).
long haul truck driver (3500 per week).

doley (okm per week).

Lose of licence will effect who, the drivers that drive all the time or the ones that drive somtimes or never.

Demerits do not effect everyone the same.

[davebullet]

The GPS goverened speed thing is interesting.

Does anyone know the ratio of accidents occuring:
straight line section of road?
vs
around bends / corners?

If the bulk is the latter- then I cannot see how GPS goverened speed will help.

[Max Preload]

I was thinking arse, or prick.
Generally, we can agree it's a crutch area thing.Or crotch even.:facepalm:

[MarkH]

No it doesn't.
Someone who gets the bus every day drives in the weekend (100km per week).
someone on call drives company car to work (500km per week).
long haul truck driver (3500 per week).

doley (okm per week).

Lose of licence will effect who, the drivers that drive all the time or the ones that drive somtimes or never.

Demerits do not effect everyone the same.

I would have trouble agreeing more - I think you are 100% correct.

I have a flatmate that walks to work (about 6 minutes) and he doesn't own a vehicle. Another flatmate drives to work every day, but if he lost his license he could buy a bicycle and ride. If I lost my license and didn't ride for 3 months then I would have to file for bankruptcy and go live with my mother. Between the 3 of use we have the following results of losing the license:
- no difference at all
- slightly inconvenienced
- losing job.
I couldn't even get buy for the time that I couldn't apply for an exemption for.

Actually in the past I have lost my license twice, both times I didn't stop driving because I just couldn't afford to. For me no driving = no working = no income.

I am actually against the demerit points system, I kinda feel that you end up being punished twice for the same offence (fined for speeding then lose license for 2 or 3 offences that you have already been fined for).

[p.dath]

The GPS goverened speed thing is interesting.

Does anyone know the ratio of accidents occuring:
straight line section of road?
vs
around bends / corners?

If the bulk is the latter- then I cannot see how GPS goverened speed will help.

I have seen the number for motorbikes, and the biggest chunk are on corners.