What gives with this?

[Mom]

My beloved Mommy passed away July 21st. I have been appointed, along with my step brother to administer her estate. It has taken some time to get the paper work completed, we live at opposite ends of the island (thanks for making it easy Mom), but finally we have got the paperwork lodged in teh court for probabte to be granted. Mean time we are stuck.

She has bills pilling up that cant be paid as her bank account is frozen. I have personally contacted everyone and told them she is gone, and sent a copy of her death certificate as proof, and asked for patience as they will get paid just as soon as we have probate. All have been very understanding.

I am unable to disconect her power, the reminders keep coming.
I am unable to disconnect her phone, they threatened disconnection yay! Until i told them again she was dead, then they will just hold on and wait.
I can not change her billing address with the councils, nor can I pay the rates, so we are gathering penalties. Oh and they send reminders.
I can not, clear her house out and put it on the market, we dont have probate. The list goes on.

Now some of these companies have allowed me to change her address so the bills come directly to me, some wont allow it. NZ post have agreed a mail redirection for 2 months - that is about to expire and I dont have probate *sigh* It seems every company/organisation have a different set of rules around a deceased customer.

I find it very stressful and upsetting to get reminders of unpaid bills, however I am managing as it wont be long till we can sort things. My Mom was fairly well housebound towards the end of her life, she lived for her Saturday Herald and her Sunday Star Times, she also got the listener in. Now I rang all of these companies about a week after she died, as I did not want papers etc delivered when there was no one to receive them. Mom lived in Thames, I live in Warkworth, so I cant just go and pick them up. All of her subscriptions were coming due for renewal, so it was agreed that they would deliver the remaining paid up papers/Listeners to me, then stop.

There were 7 weeks of Sunday Papers left. I got a reminder bill for her subscription which I ignored. Then I got another one, I ignored that one too, as I had already arranged to cancel after her subscription had expired. SO today I get another one, quite curt really, and I got a bit upset that they were still hounding Mom to renew (I thought) her subscription. I rang them and no, this was what she owed as a new subscription period started just before she died. Now I asked the question when I first rang, how many papers has she paid for, we will have them, then no more apparently the female I talked to did not realise that her new subscription had not been paid for yet.

Now you can not get money out of a dead person, and frankly I am not paying it from the estate as in good faith I cancelled the papaers after she died. I got an argument, and then I got upset, and then they agreed to wipe the bill, all for $12! Pathetic!

[gijoe1313]

Hang in there, I know you have had to deal with a lot of life's little trying moments - and like of all them, this too shall pass.

Keep at it! Don't let it get you down, and thanks for letting others be aware of the situation they might find themselves in one day!

Please keep us updated how it all goes, so we know how to avoid or resolve them more easily should the occasion call for us too! :shit::facepalm::shutup:

[slofox]

My sympathy to you and your family mom.

This is a difficult thing to deal with. You can only persevere and try to get companies to see sense. Personally I think it odious that penalties are even considered in such cases - for obvious reasons - I mean, what the hell are you supposed to do about it?
If the family as a whole is flush enough to cover these expenses against settlement of the will, then you might advance the monies yourselves. But in many cases this is not possible - I know I would be in no position right now take such an action.
Many companies have policies set in concrete which are are totally inflexible unless you deal with the Chief Boss Boohoo. The minions have no say in such matters are blindly follow protocol. If possible, go to the top of the tree and make sure that the actions decided upon trickle down to those who do the work. And stick to your guns. Revisit the issue as many times as you have to. Maybe you need to get a large noisy group of bikers to go with you if things get too tough!

One thing I have done with regard to my own demise, whenever it should occur, is to grant the executor of my will, a power of attorney so that accounts etc can be settled, subscriptions cancelled etc. I know this is of no use to you right now, but it is something that we all need to consider so that those whom we leave behind are not faced with the issues you are dealing with. I hope you don't mind me mentioning this.

Best of luck Mom - I wish I could do something more concrete than just blather on.

[kave]

One thing I have done with regard to my own demise, whenever it should occur, is to grant the executor of my will, a power of attorney so that accounts etc can be settled, subscriptions cancelled etc.
As far as I can recall, this is an absolute waste of time, legally all power of attorney ceases on death. Power of attorney is useful in the situation where you are non compos mentis or otherwise unable to take care of your affairs, but only as long as you are alive. The only way to give people access to your accounts after your death without needing probate is to make them a joint account holder, with signing power to be both jointly and severally.

[slofox]

As far as I can recall, this is an absolute waste of time, legally all power of attorney ceases on death. Power of attorney is useful in the situation where you are non compos mentis or otherwise unable to take care of your affairs, but only as long as you are alive. The only way to give people access to your accounts after your death without needing probate is to make them a joint account holder, with signing power to be both jointly and severally.

I have probably got the terminology wrong but when I wrote my will the solicitor set it up so that it happens as I have outlined. Solicitor's suggestion to avoid the situation outlined by Mom...it was a while ago so I have forgotten how it works...

[Mully]

Condolences Mom,

Playing a bit of Devil's Advocate - why (once you've told these clowns in writing that your mum passed) don't you just not pay them?

I don't think your mum is going to be concerned if she's got a collection against her credit.....

My mother went last September - but she had a surviving spouse, so it wasn't so bad. It did, however, cause MAJOR issues with one sibling in particular - but that's a whole different story.

[Mom]

One thing I have done with regard to my own demise, whenever it should occur, is to grant the executor of my will, a power of attorney so that accounts etc can be settled, subscriptions cancelled etc. I know this is of no use to you right now, but it is something that we all need to consider so that those whom we leave behind are not faced with the issues you are dealing with. I hope you don't mind me mentioning this.

Best of luck Mom - I wish I could do something more concrete than just blather on.

Thank you for that. I had Enduring Power of Attorney for Mom, does not mean a tin of shit after they have gone. Strangely enough I never had to use it. I had operating authority on her bank accounts, but when you die the accounts are frozen. We should have made the account a joint account, then all would have been hunky dory. Now there is something you could consider.

Like you say, all well and good if you can afford to pay the bills, easy as the estate will reimburse, sadly I am unable to do so. I think what bugs me is everyone seems to have different standards on what they will and wont allow.


Condolences Mom,

Playing a bit of Devil's Advocate - why (once you've told these clowns in writing that your mum passed) don't you just not pay them?

I don't think your mum is going to be concerned if she's got a collection against her credit.....

My mother went last September - but she had a surviving spouse, so it wasn't so bad. It did, however, cause MAJOR issues with one sibling in particular - but that's a whole different story.

The funny thing is Moms estate is not big, I wont be retiring on my share of it for sure :lol: I always said to her, just dont leave me with a bill when you go. Lucky you, only one sibling. I have 4 grand kids (mind you they are ok) one brother, one step sister, and 3 step brothers :pinch: And as you say, that is a whole nother story. When you have a few hours spare come up for a beer, we can swap stories :lol:

[Motu]

My mother's affairs were handled by the Public Trust,and everything went perfectly...we didn't have to do a thing.My brother has lived on the other side of the world for 35 years,so he didn't need to stay any longer then necessary.A cousin was executor of the will,because Mum knew her boys wouldn't have a clue.

[davereid]

Anne, condolences, its hard enough losing someone without all the legal, social and financial trauma inflicted on you after the death.

Im involved with a company that has a large customer database, with regular monthly payments made by many of them. We don't make it difficult for a customers family to cancel, although it appears that is common practice.

However, I got a letter the other day from a customers family that may do the trick for you. This was not from a lawyer, so I don't know its legal value, but it inspired us to do a prompt disconnection. I have done it from memory so its not exactly what we were sent.

Dear XYZ Company

Our father XXXX of 99 YYYY St. passed away on DD/MM/YY

The services provided by your company are no longer required, and this is formal notice of cancellation. Until the end of this month we will assist with final readings, disconnection etc, after this time we cannot facilitate access to the premises.

No accounts for service after the end of the month will be considered for payment.

Please cancel service forthwith, and if access to the premises is required contact us as soon as possible.

yours etc..

[HenryDorsetCase]

Mean time we are stuck.

She has bills pilling up that cant be paid as her bank account is frozen. I have personally contacted everyone and told them she is gone, and sent a copy of her death certificate as proof, and asked for patience as they will get paid just as soon as we have probate. All have been very understanding.

I am unable to disconect her power, the reminders keep coming.
I am unable to disconnect her phone, they threatened disconnection yay! Until i told them again she was dead, then they will just hold on and wait.
I can not change her billing address with the councils, nor can I pay the rates, so we are gathering penalties. Oh and they send reminders.
I can not, clear her house out and put it on the market, we dont have probate. The list goes on.

Now some of these companies have allowed me to change her address so the bills come directly to me, some wont allow it. NZ post have agreed a mail redirection for 2 months - that is about to expire and I dont have probate *sigh* It seems every company/organisation have a different set of rules around a deceased customer.

I find it very stressful and upsetting to get reminders of unpaid bills, however I am managing as it wont be long till we can sort things. My Mom was fairly well housebound towards the end of her life, she lived for her Saturday Herald and her Sunday Star Times, she also got the listener in. Now I rang all of these companies about a week after she died, as I did not want papers etc delivered when there was no one to receive them. Mom lived in Thames, I live in Warkworth, so I cant just go and pick them up. All of her subscriptions were coming due for renewal, so it was agreed that they would deliver the remaining paid up papers/Listeners to me, then stop.

There were 7 weeks of Sunday Papers left. I got a reminder bill for her subscription which I ignored. Then I got another one, I ignored that one too, as I had already arranged to cancel after her subscription had expired. SO today I get another one, quite curt really, and I got a bit upset that they were still hounding Mom to renew (I thought) her subscription. I rang them and no, this was what she owed as a new subscription period started just before she died. Now I asked the question when I first rang, how many papers has she paid for, we will have them, then no more apparently the female I talked to did not realise that her new subscription had not been paid for yet.

Now you can not get money out of a dead person, and frankly I am not paying it from the estate as in good faith I cancelled the papaers after she died. I got an argument, and then I got upset, and then they agreed to wipe the bill, all for $12! Pathetic!Fairfax? they are bastards thats why

You are screwed without Probate. Simple as that. Probate means "proving the will".

It legally empowers you to do the things you need to do.

Wny not just ring your lawyer, take all the papers in and say "sort this shit out"?

You (it appears) have done the hard yards in getting your docs lodged (well done on that as a lay person by the way). so the admin should be easy.

Tips on banks Banks will require a certified true copy of Probate, OR the original document which they stamp as "noted by XYZ bank" but they also want a letter from BOTH of the Executors requesting the accounts be closed. (Dear Bank, givvus the coin right now).

You will need a lawyer to do the house sale conveyancing, why not get them to do this estate stuff too?

PM me if you want, I do a bit of this sort of work. OK quite a lot.

[slofox]

. I had Enduring Power of Attorney for Mom, does not mean a tin of shit after they have gone.



I shall have to have a closer look to see just what it was that I did - obviously "power of attorney" is not the correct term. To be honest I was remembering through a thick fog of fatigue and that was the first term I thought of. It was rather a long time ago now.
My ex-wife's mother's system was to leave a huge wodge of cash for daughter to find when she died...effective, if a little risky. In the event, it worked.

[Mom]

I shall have to have a closer look to see just what it was that I did - obviously "power of attorney" is not the correct term. To be honest I was remembering through a thick fog of fatigue and that was the first term I thought of. It was rather a long time ago now.
My ex-wife's mother's system was to leave a huge wodge of cash for daughter to find when she died...effective, if a little risky. In the event, it worked.

Please do look into it. Honestly, I have been surprised just how different organisations deal with stuff. For example, WINZ were delighted to hear that she had gone and I had advised them (I dont mean that in a bad way either). It meant moms pension stopped without creating a debt to the estate. A death certificate was enough for them to take action. The Thames Coromandel District Council, wont change her postal address without probate, despite the fact I have sent them a certified copy of her death certificate, or waive penalties (unless we pay the account in full on or before the next installment is due).

Mom did not have a wodge of cash sadly. She left me a fridge full of perishable food, and a cat that was not friendly, and hated people and would not come near the house. It took a couple of weeks to catch it. Not easy to do from Warkworth when the cat is in Thames. I have to give a HUGE thanks to the SPCA in Thames, well to one of their volunteers actually. She came with a net and caught the cat for me.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Power of attorney stops the minute the person dies: POA/EPOA is for you to look after someone when they cant look after themselves, but before they die.

When they die the will takes effect, or in the absence of a will, the Administration Act 1969.

[Mully]

I always said to her, just dont leave me with a bill when you go. Lucky you, only one sibling. I have 4 grand kids (mind you they are ok) one brother, one step sister, and 3 step brothers :pinch: And as you say, that is a whole nother story. When you have a few hours spare come up for a beer, we can swap stories

I'll take you up on that - I only have one sibling who's causing the dramas (over 12 months later)


For example, WINZ were delighted to hear that she had gone and I had advised them (I dont mean that in a bad way either). It meant moms pension stopped without creating a debt to the estate..

When my Grandad died in March (it's been a right bastard of a couple of years, really) - WINZ rang my Grandma THE NEXT DAY and told her not to spend his pension cos they'd want it back.

[Mom]

I'll take you up on that - I only have one sibling who's causing the dramas (over 12 months later)



When my Grandad died in March (it's been a right bastard of a couple of years, really) - WINZ rang my Grandma THE NEXT DAY and told her not to spend his pension cos they'd want it back.

Did you hear my rapid intake of indignant breath just then?

Bunch of .... (use your imagination)

Not only do we need to share a beer, probably a hug would not go amiss either. Life is an interesting beastie at times for sure.

[Ratti]

Sweetheart, after what I have been through since my hubbys death last year..nothing suprises me any more.

And you know what? There is still room for it to go to shite even more, and it most likely will. Just wait till someone decides s/he should have got a share of the estate. That's when it gets interesting.

In the end I just kept paying all the bills including the mortgage. I know you're not in a position to do that tho. Im stunned at the Council being arses. Go to the top of every organisation that you have to deal with, just keep asking for the supervisor of that person until someone gives in and does the decent thing.

Not that its going to help, but I found the same thing. Some crowds did the deed over the phone just on my sayso, some needed death cert in writing, some needed proof of probate, and one lot still havent changed names over and its been nearly 2 years now. Sod them...

Hang on Anne, it will end. I promise it will.

[Genie]

FFS, this is terrible. I'm shocked and dumbfounded...who the fuck runs these businesses. As if you don't already have enough to contend with. Atrocious.

Mom, this is majorily wrong and I'm sickened that this is how it is. Is there no respect for death and the pain endured by those left behind?

Anyway....sending you a big hug, hang in there. Bollix, "Hang in there", useless damn words.
You'll do what you need to do to get through this abhorrant circumstance.

You'll share hugs with the man you love and who loves you.

You'll go for a ride, feel the thrill and smile.

You'll enjoy a drink with a wonderful friend.

You'll smile in memory of your mom, this is what sustains you...

and you'll feel the support of those that love you.

[HenryDorsetCase]

FFS, this is terrible. I'm shocked and dumbfounded...who the fuck runs these businesses. As if you don't already have enough to contend with. Atrocious.

Mom, this is majorily wrong and I'm sickened that this is how it is. Is there no respect for death and the pain endured by those left behind?

Anyway....sending you a big hug, hang in there. Bollix, "Hang in there", useless damn words.
You'll do what you need to do to get through this abhorrant circumstance.

You'll share hugs with the man you love and who loves you.

You'll go for a ride, feel the thrill and smile.

You'll enjoy a drink with a wonderful friend.

You'll smile in memory of your mom, this is what sustains you...

and you'll feel the support of those that love you.

For one thing, its not personal to anyone but Mom, all these businesses have a checksheet and all of them have a process. Ask yourself a question: should it be as easy as just ringing up and saying "O Hai, this person is dead please cancel the account"? Of course it shouldnt because people would (in the immortal words of Douglas Adams) "spend a year dead for tax reasons". So, they have a process, and you have to deal with the process, and provide evidence. And, they all have a different process. And you just have to roll with it, get on, and deal with it. That is why when I am dealing with estates (which I do) I say to the family: you bring me the paperwork, I will deal with all that stuff, and you go deal with the keepsakes, the momentoes, the treasures that she wanted you all to have. Because I dont get emotionally involved, I dont take it personally when confronted with pointless bureaucracy, and I do get it done. It allows the family to get on, remember the person who died, often have a good old get together and "Oh I remember when we got that, I'll treasure it always as a keepsake".

Just by way of example, one of the most bitter disputes Ive ever dealt with was between two family members squabbling over their elderly mother's keepsakes and "treasures": No one gave a toss about the million and a half in real property, but they were majorly pissed about the "stuff".

As for disputes over wills, the less said about that the better: there is a saying though "Where there is a will, there is a relative"

Emotive ranting isn't that helpful, I find.

[Mom]

I am lucky in that regard, my Mom was a very pragmatic woman and most things had names on them :lol: The grandkids knew exactly what they were getting and the girls wore Moms rings at her funeral.

Both sides of the family have had an opportunity to go through the possessions and keep what they want as momentos and keepsakes. No arguing there.

I have not been able to deal with Moms clothes, so the packing up of the house has stalled until I am able to steel myself to do it, so it is probably a good thing that probate has been delayed. Once we have it I am certain the wolves will be out for the money and demand things move along at pace.

I guess I just wanted to give a heads up to anyone just how many hoops there are out there, and how hard it is to do what needs to be done when you are cored out in your grief.

[Swoop]

So very sorry to hear of your Mum's passing, Mom.

As others have said, it will all be sorted out... in due time.
Kind thoughts your way.

[Mom]

A phone call today, finally probate has been granted. It was signed at the High Court 29-9-10 and has taken till today to get to me. Lucky I was not in a hurry eh :lol:

For someone that is dealing with an estate that is worth very little, the hoops have been amazing and the legal firms wanting their cut of it has been staggering. If Mom had wanted a lawyer to administer her estate she would have appointed one thanks all the same. At last I can pay the poor bastard that removed the gunge from Moms steps a couple of weeks before she died.

I may update this thread as the months go by with some handy hints and tips on how to manage things. One thing I learned today though, one legal firm will act on behalf without any instruction. I actually had to stop this woman from transferring ownership to me and my step brother. That can be done as part of the sale process, and be included in that cost. It does not need to be done now thank you very much. Unfuckingbelievable. this woman also wanted to fire an email to moms bank to get her accounts closed and the funds transferred to their trust account!

[yungatart]

The wheels of bureaucracy grind ever so slowly...glad you are finally able to begin to get things sorted, Mom.

[merv]

My mother's affairs were handled by the Public Trust,and everything went perfectly...we didn't have to do a thing.My brother has lived on the other side of the world for 35 years,so he didn't need to stay any longer then necessary.A cousin was executor of the will,because Mum knew her boys wouldn't have a clue.

Mom sorry to hear about your hassles.

Our last death in the family was my dear Bro' and he had chosen Guardian Trust to handle his affairs and like Motu's experience with Public Trust it all went perfectly with them too. There seemed to be no hassles with them cancelling services etc all straight away and wrapping all the bills up. Even his phone and mobile phone were cut off it seemed before you'd even say he was cold they were that quick doing stuff. At the end of it all I didn't think their fees were that steep either.