Giving way to peds on left turn

[kowhai]

Hey there,

I hope somebody can help me here.

When you are at an intersection with lights and you are turning left and there are pedestrians crossing on the green man, do you have to wait until all pedestrians are back onto the pavement or just until they are out of the way and you can turn?

I've looked through the road code for clarification but can't find it in there.

Ta

[Latte]

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I believe the same rules as Pedestrian Crossings apply. You have to wait untill they are off the road, unless there is a raised Island in the middle, in which case you only have to worry about "your lane".

Although I just go when it's clear enough not to scare the Pedestrians, never been an issue so far.

[pzkpfw]

I read an article in a Christchurch paper last year, about this. Some Woman whose son had been run over by a truck had been campaigning for this to be enforced - and yes, the peds have to be right off the road. (Your lane, as noted above).

(Frankly, I don't think Wellington rush hour roads would function at all if this were full enforced everywhere. (Not that I advocate people rushing through and driving overs the peds' ankles...))

Don't forget too that flashing red man means they are entitled to finish crossing.

[neels]

Don't forget too that flashing red man means they are entitled to finish crossing.Nah, that's not right. It means if they haven't finished crossing by then they should start running to avoid holding up traffic.

[SMOKEU]

I just wait till they're out of my way then go.

[Taz]

I just wait till they're out of my way then go.

+1 You'd have to try really hard to hit them. Just use your common sense.

[Berries]

You have to give way to them, once they are past your vehicle you can turn. There is nothing that says you have to wait for them to finish crossing either at signals or a normal pedestrian crossing. Once your way is clear you can proceed. We had an argument about this a few months ago.

The red flashing man legally means that pedestrians should not start to cross but are entitled to continue crossing if they have already started. If you hit a pedestrian though what the lights are doing is irrelevant. You'll feel bad, possibly, and might get a ticket.

Always good to give them a scare though :Punk:


I've looked through the road code for clarification but can't find it in there.
It is not really clarified in the Road Code - http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-driving/giving-way-at-controlled-intersections.html You need to look at the legislation behind it which is the Road User Rule. You can find that on the NZTA website as well http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/rules/road-user-2004-index.html

[bikemike]

Surely you should apply the same rules, even out of courtesy...?!

With an Island then you treat as two (or more) crossings.


Pedestrian crossings

(1) A driver approaching a pedestrian crossing must—

(a) give way to pedestrians, and to riders of wheeled recreational devices or mobility devices,—

(i) on the pedestrian crossing; or
(ii) obviously waiting to cross it; and

(b) if necessary, slow down and stop the driver's vehicle for that purpose.

(2) A driver approaching a pedestrian crossing must not enter the crossing if the driver's intended passage is blocked by stationary traffic.
(3) For the purposes of this clause, if a pedestrian crossing is interrupted by a raised traffic island, the parts of the crossing that are situated on different sides of that traffic island must be regarded as separate pedestrian crossings.
(4) This clause does not apply to a pedestrian crossing that is for the time being controlled by an enforcement officer.



http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303663.html#DLM303663

[Gibbo89]

Although I just go when it's clear enough not to scare the Pedestrians, never been an issue so far.

same here.

But legally you will have to wait for them to complete the crossing. if you cut in front of them then you will get fined. my mate was fined in his car doing that.

[Virago]

same here.

But legally you will have to wait for them to complete the crossing. if you cut in front of them then you will get fined. my mate was fined in his car doing that.

The key issue above in bold. You must give way to pedestrians coming towards your vehicle. If they are walking away from you, you do not have to wait for them to complete the crossing.

As it was explained by the police on TV a couple of years ago, it's just like a Give Way sign - you must give way to traffic coming toward you. Once they've gone past, you don't have to wait for them to disappear over the horizon before moving.

[Berries]

But legally you will have to wait for them to complete the crossing. if you cut in front of them then you will get fined. my mate was fined in his car doing that.
If you cut in front of them then you haven't given way so have committed an offence. It gets a bit questionable on very wide crossings where it is perfectly safe to go because the pedestrian is miles away, but you could still get done for it if someone is having a bad day. At a ped crossing I will wait, but if turning left at lights I'll go if the pedestrian is only just leaving the kerb on the other side. But as above, once you have complied you have complied. All waiting for them to finish crossing the road does is annoy the people behind you who actually know the rules.

[Devil]

I want to stab those fuckers who START crossing on the red man, at some intersections making the left turning traffic miss the lights entirely.
Ignorant bastards.

[BMWST?]

if there is any doubt the pedestrian will get the benefit of that doubt

[pzkpfw]

You have to give way to them, once they are past your vehicle you can turn. There is nothing that says you have to wait for them to finish crossing either at signals or a normal pedestrian crossing. Once your way is clear you can proceed. We had an argument about this a few months ago. ...


... If they are walking away from you, you do not have to wait for them to complete the crossing. ...


No, I'm pretty sure this has been changed.


Sadly, the only reference I can find right now is this one, which isn't direct: See point 5... http://www.pedestriansafety.org.nz/Margaret_s_submission_to%20Coroner.htm

"...5.Last year LTSA made changes prohibiting vehicles entering pedestrian crossings while a pedestrian is lawfully using the crossing...."


Still searching...

---------------

Or I could be talking bollocks:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/16.0/DLM303690.html

" Pedestrian crossings
The rule removes the driver's right to pass in front of pedestrians on a pedestrian crossing with a centre line. A pedestrian crossing is considered to be 2 separate crossings only if a pedestrian refuge (traffic island) interrupts it."


Still searching...

----------

May have to admit I'm wrong. Bugger.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-other-road-users/sharing-road-with-pedestrians.html

"... wait until the pedestrian has crossed in front of you and is clear of your vehicle before you proceed ..."

Better do some work, will search more later...

[kowhai]

Surely a piece of law should be more clearly defined? Every time I go out I have to use it and everyone else will be the same I imagine.

The reason I want to know is because I have my full coming up. I'll probably just stick to everyone of the road for simplicity sake.

[Murray]

What really pisses me off are these shopping streets/malls etc that now have cobblestone walkways across the road. I may be wrong but these are not signposted as crossings yet joe pedestrian all seem to think they have the right to just walk across in front of traffic and half of joe cardriver stop for them.

Surely these are not deemed zebra/pedestrian crossings.

[Devil]

The term for those is 'courtesy crossings' and no, they are not deemed to be pedestrian crossings and are not subject their laws. A lot of people do not understand this.

[Berries]

Surely a piece of law should be more clearly defined? Every time I go out I have to use it and everyone else will be the same I imagine.

The reason I want to know is because I have my full coming up. I'll probably just stick to everyone of the road for simplicity sake.
You'll be sweet. The Road Code is just a summary of the Road User Rule and everything you need is in Part 10 where it is clearly defined. There is no legislation that says you must wait for a pedestrian to clear the crossing. Obviously you don't want to move off too soon so give them a bit of room, but if you failed because you didn't let them get all the way across the road then the tester is wrong.

it is interesting how strongly people feel about some of the road rules, particularly when they are incorrect. I got red reps for my post in this thread where the very same issue was discussed, kicking off in post 158 - http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/123122-Attitude-of-the-POPO!/page11


No, I'm pretty sure this has been changed.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/16.0/DLM303690.html

" Pedestrian crossings
The rule removes the driver's right to pass in front of pedestrians on a pedestrian crossing with a centre line. A pedestrian crossing is considered to be 2 separate crossings only if a pedestrian refuge (traffic island) interrupts it."

Still searching...
There was a change last year you are right. There was an amendment to the Road User Rule that added a clause to say that you had to give way to pedestrians at a pedestrian crossing who were "obviously waiting to cross it." The bit you quoted is also from part 10 of the 2004 Road User Rule. This was put in to clarify the situation where a solid white centreline had been painted through the crossing as there was confusion as to whether this meant it was treated as two separate crossings or one long one, and thus when you had to give way to a pedestrian.

[simpy1]

Once I pretended to be about to take off in my car when a guy was crossing in front of me - he hadn't pressed the button (no red man or green man). It was supposed to be just as a joke to give him a fright. I just revved the engine a little like I was about to go...

He didn't get a fright, he just calmly looked at me and said in a wonderfully sarcastic voice "Give it heaps mate"

You win this time, staunch pedestrian man.

[PrincessBandit]

Don't forget too that flashing red man means they are entitled to finish crossing.

I thought it meant they were fair game....


What really pisses me off are these shopping streets/malls etc that now have cobblestone walkways across the road. I may be wrong but these are not signposted as crossings yet joe pedestrian all seem to think they have the right to just walk across in front of traffic and half of joe cardriver stop for them.

Surely these are not deemed zebra/pedestrian crossings.

I find it strange that often when I'm waiting (on the footpath) at these courtesy crossings and cars will stop! There's probably just so much concern about not doing the wrong thing i.e. hitting someone on the road, people would rather be safe than sorry.

[p.dath]

Surely a piece of law should be more clearly defined? Every time I go out I have to use it and everyone else will be the same I imagine.

The reason I want to know is because I have my full coming up. I'll probably just stick to everyone of the road for simplicity sake.

It depends on weather you want huge acts of parliament to cover every eventuality and control exactly what you can do - or if you want to cover the major things, and leave it up to the users to use common sense, and the courts to set precedents for those that don't.

Personally, I prefer the "less rules" approach, and favour allowing the public to exercise some discretion for the situation presented to themselves and to choose the best option.

[St_Gabriel]

What really pisses me off are these shopping streets/malls etc that now have cobblestone walkways across the road. I may be wrong but these are not signposted as crossings yet joe pedestrian all seem to think they have the right to just walk across in front of traffic and half of joe cardriver stop for them.

Surely these are not deemed zebra/pedestrian crossings.

I bloody love that crossing thing between Downtown plaza and Centreplace in Ward St. Was working down there for a few weeks and would always just idle across and wait for all the indignant remarks from the pedestrians. Even had one actually walk into the side of the van. Suprisingly, there was never too many phonecalls to the boss (damn signwritten vans with prominent phone numbers).

I know I would have been in deep shit if I ever actually ran anyone over no matter how much they deserved it

[sunhuntin]

if they are crossing towards me and im in the front, i go as most locals here dawdle and if i waited, chances are i would miss the green. if they are crossing away from me, then i wait until they are over the 'centre line' of the opposite side before going.

as for courtesy crossings, they dont stop for you in palmy. i always do unless i have a car too close for comfort. i did that in fielding once and got the hugest grin and wave from a little boy and his granny. absolutely made my day. :love:
we used to have those types of crossings here in the main street [speed bumps with cobblestone "stripes"] eventually, enough of a stink was raised by pedestrians that crossing "posts" were stuck up everywhere. good really, cos it removes the question.