Crashed helicopter

[slofox]

Remind me never to go for a ride in a Robinson helicopter...seems like every helicopter crash involves one of these...

[Edbear]

I think you'll find it's because they are the most popular small chopper around and there are more of them than eny other. I used to call on a Helicopter workshop and their opinion was that the helicopter itself was fine if flown within its design parameters, but pilots would get too blase and think they could do things they weren't designed for.

If you review their accident record it is mostly pilot error, not unreliability at fault. Of course we don't yet know the cause of this one, but it appears at first, that it could be the older owner of the Robinson learning to fly who may have done something wrong that the instructor couldn't correct in time.

[slofox]

I think you'll find it's because they are the most popular small chopper around and there are more of them than eny other. I used to call on a Helicopter workshop and their opinion was that the helicopter itself was fine if flown within its design parameters, but pilots would get too blase and think they could do things they weren't designed for.

If you review their accident record it is mostly pilot error, not unreliability at fault. Of course we don't yet know the cause of this one, but it appears at first, that it could be the older owner of the Robinson learning to fly who may have done something wrong that the instructor couldn't correct in time.

More than likely true...

BUT

I'll still stay out of 'em thanks...

[Genie]

Yeah, that was iccky, never been in a helicoptor and I don't have much desire to either....will stick to staying firmly on the ground as long as the ground stays firm beneath my feet.

[FJRider]

With all the vehicle crashes ... so many seem to be cars :yes:

Perhaps you stay out of THEM too ... :innocent:

[Genie]

With all the vehicle crashes ... so many seem to be cars :yes:

Perhaps you stay out of THEM too ... :innocent:

hehe, gee you're witty this morning...you off for a ride today?

[FJRider]

hehe, gee you're witty this morning...you off for a ride today?

The sun is shining ... the bike has a full gas tank .... it would be wrong NOT to ...

The Crown Range beckons ....

[Genie]

The sun is shining ... the bike has a full gas tank .... it would be wrong NOT to ...

The Crown Range beckons ....

I can hear it calling from here....it would be very wrong to deny the range and your bike a rendezvous, best you be Chaperone between those two, it could be a hot date.

[Virago]

More than likely true...

BUT

I'll still stay out of 'em thanks...

Often hysteria over-rides common sense.

Statistically, you'll be far more likely to die when riding your bike.

[Jackal]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think the 'Robbies' have a piston engine as opposed to the turbine most choppers have. What happens to your lawnmower engine when it hits a big hefty chunk of grass? Takes a bit for the engine to regain full revs. Well the Robbies do the same when revs are lost for whatever reason. I knew a guy who crashed his 3 times (last one was fatal). His first crash he started up, got the thing whirling and got out to give the windscreen a clean and the chopper took off by itself and flipped on its back. Left him standing there with a rag in his hand!:facepalm:

[slofox]

Often hysteria over-rides common sense.

Statistically, you'll be far more likely to die when riding your bike.

Also true - but at least it'll be MY OWN fault - just ask ACC - they'll tell ya.....:whistle:

[Big Col]

I was told that if you want to own a helicopter just buy some land and you will get one eventually.

[avgas]

I was told that if you want to own a helicopter just buy some land and you will get one eventually.
And if you want to own a boat, have lots of money and no drivers license....:sick:

[Swoop]

And if you want to own a boat, have lots of money and no drivers license....:sick:
Unfortunately, the same thing applies to NZ drivers.

[marty]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think the 'Robbies' have a piston engine as opposed to the turbine most choppers have. What happens to your lawnmower engine when it hits a big hefty chunk of grass? Takes a bit for the engine to regain full revs. Well the Robbies do the same when revs are lost for whatever reason. I knew a guy who crashed his 3 times (last one was fatal). His first crash he started up, got the thing whirling and got out to give the windscreen a clean and the chopper took off by itself and flipped on its back. Left him standing there with a rag in his hand!:facepalm:

You're wrong..

'most' choppers in NZ? Would probably be an even split between turbine and piston, they both have different roles and advantages. The R22 and R44 are both pistons, Jetrangers, 500's, Squirrels etc are turbine (and correspondingly cost upwards of a million bucks - an R22 can be had for $120k)

The engine in a helicopter (R22 included) is ultra reliable, and once set at RPM does not really change - it is the rotor rpm that is the critical issue. The Robbie blades are very light though, and once decayed can take some time to auto-rotate back to correct RPM (if they actually ever make it back). Go out to Ardmore and watch the auto-rotates into the field - the engine is still sitting at 2550 rpm but is disengaged from the gearbox by de-tensioning the drive belts.

A piston aircraft engine responds almost instantaneously to application of power. The turbine takes its time to increase RPM, but like the piston engine, during normal flight the turbine remains set at whatever its ideal % level is, and is simply fed more fuel via a fuel control unit when it is put under load.

The guy who crashed his 3 times? The roll over is hardly the helicopter's fault. Would be interesting to know what the cause of the other 2 were.

And even a $2mill flash-harry Eurocopter with autopilot and all the bells and whistles ain't gonna save you if you decide to fly like a numpty and park it in a hillside

http://tvnz.co.nz/content/626564/423466.html

[paturoa]

With all the vehicle crashes ... so many seem to be cars :yes:

Perhaps you stay out of THEM too ... :innocent:

Wot about all of the gixxer crashes?!

[FJRider]

Wot about all of the gixxer crashes?!

I ride a YAMAHA .... no worries ..... :innocent:

[slofox]

Wot about all of the gixxer crashes?!

I still haven't crashed it after six months...:innocent:

[nudemetalz]

You haven't lived until you've sat in a RNZAF Huey on a military exercise being flown through valleys ULTRA-low. Those guys certainly know how to fly and despite some pretty wicked manoeuvers I thought the Huey wasn't capable of, I felt safe the whole time.
Real Tour of Duty stuff, jump out the open door once landed and start firing the Steyr....ah those were the days.....

[Grubber]

You haven't lived until you've sat in a RNZAF Huey on a military exercise being flown through valleys ULTRA-low. Those guys certainly know how to fly and despite some pretty wicked manoeuvers I thought the Huey wasn't capable of, I felt safe the whole time.
Real Tour of Duty stuff, jump out the open door once landed and start firing the Steyr....ah those were the days.....

My nephew used to be the mechanic for those things in the Air Force.
got the chance one day to do just the thing you speak of.
they are surprisingly nimble for their size those things.
And yes, they do some amazing things in them. Far from what i imagined possible.
Bit of an adrenalin buzz to be honest.:gob:
Those young fellas that fly them certainly know their stuff.
I perhaps shouldn't go into too much detail of what they used to get up to from time to time.
Ya never know who is reading this aye?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Remind me never to go for a ride in a Robinson helicopter...seems like every helicopter crash involves one of these...

the only helo I want to fly is an AH-64

I suspect they might cost a bit more than an R22 though

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yeah, that was iccky, never been in a helicoptor and I don't have much desire to either....will stick to staying firmly on the ground as long as the ground stays firm beneath my feet.

lots of people in Chch recently found out that ground they thought was firm turned out to be anything but....

[slofox]

lots of people in Chch recently found out that ground they thought was firm turned out to be anything but....

That's what happens when you build cities on swamps..."liquifaction" innit?

[Swoop]

the only helo I want to fly is an AH-64
That, in itself, is a very big ask.
Ed Macy's books (Apache + Hellfire) reflect the difficulty in getting accepted for training. Senior helo instructors who could not cope in the 64's cockpit and were washed out of the course.

Well done to those who get there!

[Edbear]

Might be the answer?

http://www.3news.co.nz/Trainee-pilot-simulating-engine-failure-before-crash/tabid/423/articleID/181791/Default.aspx

[Jackal]

You're wrong..


The guy who crashed his 3 times? The roll over is hardly the helicopter's fault. Would be interesting to know what the cause of the other 2 were.



Thanks for putting me straight. Re the three crashes, 1st - The windscreen washing incident, 2nd - He was clearing cattle out of scrub and went to give a cattle beast a nudge with the skid and missed, hitting the ground which set everything off including the ELB. He had a long walk home after that one, 3rd - Heading out to muster had a tail rotor failure hitting the ground from about 120m high. He came home in a body bag after that one.

[jellywrestler]

Remind me never to go for a ride in a Robinson helicopter...seems like every helicopter crash involves one of these...
another bit of advice is don't get a golden labrador, have you seen how many of their owners end up going blind?

[nosebleed]

That's what happens when you build cities on swamps..."liquifaction" innit?

Lol. Says the guy from hamilton. I happen to know a few of your townsfolk live on reclaimed swamp land.

Thats not quite the definition of liquifaction either.

[Eyegasm]

I am pretty sure that the R22 is the main Heli used to train pilots. If everyone had to learn to drive in a civic then I am sure that would show in the stats.

[HenryDorsetCase]

That, in itself, is a very big ask.
Ed Macy's books (Apache + Hellfire) reflect the difficulty in getting accepted for training. Senior helo instructors who could not cope in the 64's cockpit and were washed out of the course.

Well done to those who get there!

oooooh. I am going to buy that book.

Cheers

http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9780007288175/Apache

[slofox]

Lol. Says the guy from hamilton. I happen to know a few of your townsfolk live on reclaimed swamp land.


Lots do actually - and not far from me either. But I'm not one of them...

Had a friend working for a housing company a while ago. They built houses on some of the peat land in the northern suburbs...they had to sink piles EIGHT METRES down to make "stable" foundations. And even then they had to re-gib the whole lot of them a couple of times over. Very reassuring I'm sure.

I lived in Christchurch years ago when Bexley was being developed. I still remember the nay-sayers warning about building on that land. Seems they may have had a point after all...:whistle:

Hindsight is a wunnerful thing, innit?

[Swoop]

oooooh. I am going to buy that book.

Cheers

http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9780007288175/Apache
... you will want the other book, once you have read Apache...:blip:

EDIT: Bugger. Your link to the book depository has lightened my wallet.
Several books on the way!

[Drunken Monkey]

Apparently the issue is that people do use them for training, probably because of their cost, although they are not ideally suited:

"...Due to its light weight and low inertia rotor system, the R22 is not forgiving of pilot error or sluggishness. After an engine failure, real or simulated, you and the instructor will have 1.6 seconds to lower the collective and enter an autorotation. Any delay beyond 1.6 seconds will be fatal as the rotor speed, once decayed below 80 percent, cannot be recovered. Frank Robinson did not design the R22 to be a trainer; he designed the R22 for a fast cruise speed and fuel efficiency. The R22 thus has a fast cruise speed, high fuel efficiency, and is a terrible trainer. Why do so many flight schools use the R22 for training? It is cheap to operate.
If you are looking for a trainer, consider the Robinson R44 instead. The R44 has about 4 seconds of rotor inertia rather than 1.6. That gives a pilot time to hear the low rotor RPM warning horn, look at the gauges, come up with a plan, and implement the plan (i.e., lower the collective and enter the autorotation). Count out 4 seconds to yourself and then count out 1.6..."