Crashed!

[Danny-Boy]

Hi.

Writing this will hopefully be a bit of a warning to other newbie's, and help me think it over.

Last Sunday I rode from Blenheim over to Nelson, actually about 30min past Nelson. It was the longest ride I have done, having only just got my resticted, and only gone about 100km in one day with lots of stops. I planned to have a couple of breaks, ( have driven it many times) but in the end was late leaving, so only stopped once for about a minute to stretch. The CBR250 went well. and on arriving in Nelson I was still feeling fine pushed on.

I was fine untill I was about 500m from my destination. I forgot that I had been concentrating for almost two hours by now. My mind must have switched off for a second because I suddenly was in a gentle left corner without being ready. I panicked and started to brake, even thoughmy mind told me to look through the corner and turn. I went straight, across the road, and onto the verge, and, doing about 20-30km/h into the ditch (full of nice long, soft grass) almost parrallel to it. Bike flooded, cracked fairings, sore ankle, very lucky. ( Actualy I think God was watching out for me!) Later I rode back to Blen carefully, with about 3 stops.

If I had been alert the corner would have been no problem. Lesson; know your limits, take frequent stops, practice emegency stopping and turning more! Nothing worth posting about, But:

On Thurday, after work, I felt like a ride. Got out the GSX-R250 I had brought off a mate not working and am doing up. It is now running fine. I head out for the open road, reminding myself to stay alert to avoid a repeat of Sunday. After abot 5min, am behind an old ute who is doing about 90km/h. after about a min we come to abit of straight, with a gentle Left corner before it. as we approch I change down and start to speed up. The ute starts to indecate left and pulls over a bit, I indecate right and pull out. the bike accelerates more than I am expecting and, still in the final part of the gentle corner, I instantly loose confidance and throttle off. My only thought is to slow down. I brake as I drift to the Right of the road, I know what is going to happen, and see there is a fence there, no ditch, so brake harder, the front hits some gravel on the right sholder ond is gone, Im thrown left. I was still doing at least 90Km/h, and land on my left shoulder, and slide/rolldown the road.

My mate was following behind on his 150, he and the ute stop. I was able to get off the road then fell down. Rang home and picked the pike up with a trailer. My left sholder of jacket torn down tho thefoam pads, helmet visor broken and helmet badly gouged, jeans torn in several places. Bleading on my legs slightly and sore sholder. Again very lucky. Bike is broken mirror, foot peg, fairing badly cracked, part of frame from seat back bent.

If I had throtteled off, looked through the corner and turned I would have been fine. I was unfamiler with the bike, and was to used to rideing at 70k, so panicked when it felt to fast.

It is going to take me a couple of months to buy a new jacket and helmet, and I might get some of those Draggin Jeans. The GSX-R250 is needing a bit of work too. I am going to have plenty of time to think, and am wondering about my lifespan if I continue. I definatly will need some pratical training!

[Slyer]

It sounds like you're stepping out far beyond your means.
Take it easier and in smaller portions while you gain experience and kilometres.
Walk before you run etc...

[ducatilover]

It sounds like you're stepping out far beyond your means.
Take it easier and in smaller portions while you gain experience and kilometres.
Walk before you run etc...

Pretty much as he says.
That's a shit learning curve, but you got off lightly :yes:
Take it easy mate, best of luck with future riding.

[Slyer]

I know it first hand, too. I attempted to ride from Hamilton to Auckland on the day I got my very first bike and ended up screwing up right near the end of the trip. It seems you only have so much concentration available and when it runs out you fuck things up.

[2wheeldrifter]

Well I would get some good reading material... such as Twist of the wrist books.. and go back to the basic's... you have been lucky mate.

Anyone in your area you can ride with?

[trailblazer]

that is one reason i disagree with the 70kph rule. I am still on my learners although i could have got my restricted ages ago and i have never followed that rule. I always ride to what i feel is comfortable and don't push outside my limits. Only time can make you a confadent rider so when you are back on 2 wheels just take it easy and try not to panake. Remember practice makes perfect.

[tigertim20]

yep, back to basics. Start agin. Look into whether or not there is a mentor in your area, and as someone else mentioned, get a copy of twist of the wrist.
Find a big open area (like the Riverlands industrial estate) in the evenings or weekends when theyll be deserted.

If the higher speed stuff is messing with you a bit, find quiet, open STRAIGHT areas where you can get up to speed, cruise at 100k+ for a bit, then slow down, and go in a straight line back. get used to how it feels at higher speeds that 60/70km, because the handling DOES change.

sounds like you have an idea of where the weaknesses are in your riding, now you just have to find a place where you have the room to practice the things you arent great at without feeling rushed.

Got pics of the damaged bikes?

[chanceyy]

as others have said .. but also would give the draggin jeans a miss, invest in good leather with protection.

[Dogboy900]

Bugger!

It will come with time and practice, just be cautious getting there. Definitely do a course and if you can some time on the track with an instructor.

Are you able to claim the bike gear on insurance? Even if your bike is not insured claims for gear are normally done on house and contents, could get you back on the road faster.

Glad you are not badly hurt!

[Genie]

OH the nasty corner thingy shit thing that happens when you panic and your brain fixates on one point....been there done that but, I'm lucky I didn't wipe out. Why? I think because I gave my brain a damn good slap and changed my focus. My first biggish ride up hte Lake, yep, left-hand bend and ooopsies, I'm over the right hand verge. No traffic, fortunately and indeed a very big wake up call. I've watched the twist of the wrist, it's helpful to say the least, also slowing down and well, heaps more practice.

I went out last Friday and had a really good look at my approach to the left-hand bend, how I execute the turn and exit. Interesting....changing your thought pattern may help and learning not to panic.

All the best with riding and take care.

[Taz]

Get a car. Seriously. Some people are destined to ride and some aren't.

[NordieBoy]

Get a car. Seriously. Some people are destined to ride and some aren't.

Even that eyetalian guy, what's his name? Rosie? Is deciding he keeps crashing and it's not for him and maybe cars would be safer...

[Subike]

Sorry to hear of your mishap
two important lessons learnt though.
The most important IMO. is don't try to do a long trip in one hit.
You do need rest breaks. Your riding at a full on body concentration
you are consuming energy and fluids at a high pace.
you can become dehydrated without knowing it,
your concentration will wane slowly as you tire so you do not realize you are only riding at 50% reflex ability after a time.
Your judgment of corners become lazy.
you fall off
you die!

As for corners, there are three parts to any corner ,
entering a corner at the right speed
accessing and following the safest line through the corner (not the fastest)
watching the vanishing point to know when to turn out of the corner.

Practice at a pace you are comfortable on a quiet twisty road with different shaped corners.
Set your self a speed limit , and ride the road till it becomes slow in your judgment of the corners, It will probably take 3 return rides.
Pick the speed up a little and start again. your confidence will grow.
Do this till you understand your bike, its natural urge to right its self, the amount of brake pressure you need for slowing down or stopping. You get to practice an emergency stop each time you turn around if you want to.
You get to practice tight u turns where a differing set of rules apply in regards to brakes, clutch, handle bar control.
What the vanishing point, apex and roll-in means for cornering will become apparent as you practice.
Read "Twist of the wrist" or a similar publication before you start if you can.
Never be afraid of asking more experienced riders for help.
As you have done here.
These are my opinions, and do not reflect or dismiss the opinions of others on this forum.

[crazyhorse]

Good to hear you are ok, and things like this are all part of learning :yes:

[MSTRS]

Subike is on to it.
I would add a couple of things tho.
Correct lane position as you approach a corner.
Use your engine/gears to control your speed. Brakes are last resort, or for stopping.
Proper gear on your body.

[Toaster]

Try and get to know some local riders who can give you some time to mentor you and get the basics up to scratch.

Practice the basics first in a relatively safe area like car parks, low traffic roads. Highly recommend a rider skills course if there are any in your area.

Use KB to hook up.

[Okey Dokey]

Bummer to hear of your crashes. Maybe the jacket shoulder can be patched up? Practice as others have said, at a slower pace, until things feel more natural. Repetition will help your brain find things more automatically and less having to think out each step of cornering.

The Wairau Valley has lovely long straights you can enjoy, at whatever speed you are comfortable with, and generally light traffic! Just a few bends at the Narrows, and they are pretty smooth and easy. Best of luck :sunny:

[ellipsis]

.....a couple of years ago my wife decided that my life was a lot more fun than hers and decided she wanted a bike too....what ensued was the scariest time of my life ...watching her wobble round corners and being with her on the highway for a month or so while she was coming to grips ,took years off my life....she persevered..did a day with a real cool mentor/instructor and rode and rode and rode....i had the idea too that maybe some people are destined to sing and others to listen....she recently stepped up to her mid-range sport tourer and looks like she has been riding forever....hang in...do some work with a mentor/ instructor....and read the books....and wear the best protection you can afford...good luck...welcome to the world of joyous pain...

[schrodingers cat]

Cold has a lot to do with it also. Often you're more chilled than you realise and your brain gets sluggish.
Dehydration the same.

Once is a learning experience. Twice is a mistake. Third time is a pattern...

[duckonin]

A bit like shearing sheep or learning to do it, slow when starting out then speed comes naturaly, like good cheese it all takes time, hang in there:yes:, I enjoy the slow speed stuff on a heavy bike makes you learn not to b complacent about your ability...Pratice the power of positive thinking also, like that little train that was going to the top of the hill (buggar forgot his name) :facepalm:yep he got there in the end.

And get good gear !!!!

[jack_hamma]

A bit like shearing sheep!


No one fucks my sheep! :innocent:

[NordieBoy]

Repetition will help your brain find things more automatically and less having to think out each step of cornering.

Sometimes repetition isn't a good idea.

2 crashes in a week remember :shutup:




See if you can have a play on a dirt bike in a paddock with no stones.
It'll teach you about powering on through the corner and when you fall, it'll be at low speed with no traffic and you'll be laughing your head off.

[Squiggles]

Have a read of these (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/16689-Books-quot-Twist-of-the-Wrist-quot-and-quot-Total-Control-quot)

[XxKiTtiExX]

As someone else has already mentioned, get hold of a mentor in your area. Perhaps look at some riding classes or see if there are in track days happening in your area also.

[schrodingers cat]

Sometimes repetition isn't a good idea.


Practice makes permanent.

Perfect practice makes perfect

[Genie]

Practice makes permanent.

Perfect practice makes perfect

I consider every ride as practice.

Each time I throw my leg over my bike it's a new experience, the releasing of the clutch, the glide up the drive, the angle on which I enter the road, whether I turn right or left, I'm practising, finding a smooth way....I'm wishing to improve each manouvre.

I've also noted that in other things I do, driving, baking, sewing, stuff I've done for years, I'm now looking for perfection, practice makes perfect

I'll never find perfect but I'm enjoying the practice.:yes:

[marie_speeds]

As long as you are ok is the most important thing, bikes can be replaced! I as yet haven't crashed and have no plans to do so either! But have had the odd moment where my brain has caught up with my bike....and I bring myself back down to reality

[Katman]

As long as you are ok is the most important thing, bikes can be replaced!

I would suggest that a lesson learned would be the most important thing.

[R-Soul]

First of all, ensure that you are using the countrerstreering technique. If you dont know what that is, you are going to crash more until you do know what it is. Without it, you cannot turn through corners fast.
So dont try.

Your stories sound like mine (way back) before I found out about countersteering. until I learnt about it, I effectively had no control of my bike. And also had two crashes.

Aside from this first and MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT, when you learn the correct steering technique, you realise that for every corner there is preparation work that must be done before the corner. For eg;

1) You lean your body centreline far to the inside of the bike centre line (to "kiss" the inside mirror)
2) You move back on your seat, and open your inside hip to the corner
3) You find the vanishing point and adjust speed accordingly to be moving as fast as the vanishing point is moving
4) You make sure that your arms are relaxed all the way through the corner - tight grip means heavy movements of the bars and no fine adjustments
5) You point your inside knee through the corner to its exit (not critical - but it helps to remind you about focussing your eyes)


When you have this procedure, and actively do it for each corner, you will be in a good position to be able to apply more or less counter-steering turning force to the bars if you need it. It will also act like a trigger for concentration into the corner. It also makes each corner a LOT more fun!

If you go in too hot, it is then a question of having faith that the traction will be enough - but to be honest its a no brainer- do you try to turn harder, or cross the white line and face instant death anyway?

Using this technique, you will also be in a position where your bike has the most grip it can have (ie as upright as possible), and will give you more confidence in its traction. You will also be in a physical body position where you can easily apply (a lot) more or less force to the bars.

Also, get onto a track day /ART day ASAP, and slow down for the time being until you get used to what traction your bike can provide.

Make no mistake - bike riding is ALL about technique, and the quicker you learn it, the better and safer for you.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

[avgas]

Ya moron.
You never look where you think you might crash.
Otherwise guess what happens?

(we all have done it before - rule of thumb, look where you want to go)

[The Everlasting]

Take it easy dude! Good to hear you weren't seriously injured,I myself am lucky not to have had any accidents.

[Mom]

Has kiwifruit already said this in here?

Slow down Rossi.

Like anything worthwhile, it takes time to learn and perfect the skills required to really get the best out of your bike, for you, on the day and not have mishaps and crashes. It takes time to learn the finer points to prevent you parting company from your ride. It seems to me you are running before you can walk, and at best you should be tottering around holding onto to furniture still.

Send a PM to

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/28049-Roadsafe-Nelson

Jen is the closest I can think of to you right now. She will hopefully be able to direct to to someone closer to you. In the mean time, take care, slow down and concentrate.

[p.dath]

Bummer man. It is a bit of a confidence knock.

Could I suggest perhaps trying to find a mentor in your area that you can ride with (there is a list somewhere on this site). Riding with more experienced riders did wonders for me.

[NordieBoy]

Ya moron.
You never look where you think you might crash.
Otherwise guess what happens?

(we all have done it before - rule of thumb, look where you want to go)


But the fence looked soooo good.

[Danny-Boy]

Wow, lots of reply's. Thanks for all the advice.

I know about countersteering, looking where you want to go, position on road, effects of cold, etc. I just hadnt practiced enough for reflex to over-ride the brake reaction.

I think your right "start slow untill it feels natural" the trip to nelson was natural and I enjoyed it. I just thought the yellow card meant I was good at 100 without needing more practice. Something changed in my thinking (leading to the second crash). I am a carefull and safe driver, and on learner continued that to rideing, then something changed...

When I can afford some more gear (don't think I'll try to patch it- I want it to be able to save me 100% "next time") I will definatly go do a road saftey course etc.

[davebullet]

You should be relaxed when you ride. Usually means riding no more than 7/10ths. The other 3/10ths are a buffer for when you misjudge things or other driver / road user error.

7/10ths is a good safe rule of thumb. It can go for speed, how close to the edges of the road.

Beyond 7/10ths and your brains ability to learn decreases rapidly - so it ends up in survival mode. then you react by doing the wrong thing.

When you think of riding as a learning journey spanning 40+ years, it soon puts into perspective how long it can take to develop your skills - and that is ok.

Main thing is to get any ego in check and know you don't have to prove yourself to anyone.

[Maki]

One strategy often recommended to beginners is to take a powerful sportsbike and in a safe place give it a quick blast to well above 200kph. After doing that anything below about 120 will feel like you are hardly moving and panic is not likely to set in.

[Jantar]

.....
1) You lean your body centreline far to the inside of the bike centre line (to "kiss" the inside mirror)
2) You move back on your seat, and open your inside hip to the corner
3) You find the vanishing point and adjust speed accordingly to be moving as fast as the vanishing point is moving
4) You make sure that your arms are relaxed all the way through the corner - tight grip means heavy movements of the bars and no fine adjustments
5) You point your inside knee through the corner to its exit (not critical - but it helps to remind you about focussing your eyes)
......

I agree with some of what R-Soul suggests, however, until you become a lot more experienced I would recommend that you ride the way I do:

1) You keep your body in-line with the bike. Neither lean in further, nor lean out. This way you are looking at the same horizon as the bike and will have a much better feel for what the bike is doing.
2) You keep your backside in the same part of the seat. Don't try and move around on the seat. You should be part of the bike, or more correctly, the bike should be an extension of yourself. This will help for smooth riding and reduces the reaction times should the corner be different to what you expect, or should there be an obstacle in the way (eg a cop car doing a U-turn in front of you.)
3) You find the vanishing point and adjust speed accordingly to be moving as fast as the vanishing point is moving
4) You make sure that your arms are relaxed all the way through the corner - tight grip means heavy movements of the bars and no fine adjustments.
5) You keep your knees lightly gripping the tank. Do not move either knee away from the tank for any reason. This keeps the bike as part of you, rather than as something seperate that must be controlled.

The whole point is that you are part of a bike/rider combination. The bike should react to your thoughts, not you reacting to the bike. You are still riding on roads with other road users, once you progress to the race track, then try other techniques to speed up your lap times. Just don't try using race techniques on the road.

[p.dath]

One strategy often recommended to beginners is to take a powerful sportsbike and in a safe place give it a quick blast to well above 200kph. After doing that anything below about 120 will feel like you are hardly moving and panic is not likely to set in.

Haha. Really? Often recommended strategy?

Panic for beginners often sets in on corners on the road, and the panic is to do with making it around the corner. Having experience at riding at 200km/h in a straight line wont change anything. Learning how to plan the corner will.

[Expert]

Mentoring is a good idea but..... I've been out riding with some people that say they have been riding for eons and been here and there and blah blah and they're crap. Terrible positioning, terrible cornering attidude, just terrible. Just because someone has been riding for years doesn't mean they're any good, they've been doing it wrong for years.
They shouldn't be allowed to pass on their bad riding skills and crap advice.
Learning to corner is not easy, all corners are different, some spiral up on you(get tighter) sometimes there's crap, animals, old people and holes etc. on the line you want.
If you're crashing out so much, slow down and stop trying to carry so much speed through the corner, you'll have nothing in reserve. Slow in, fast out.

[Expert]

Panic for beginners often sets in on corners on the road, and the panic is to do with making it around the corner. Having experience at riding at 200km/h in a straight line wont change anything. Learning how to plan the corner will.

What he says.

Slow in, plan your route and accelerate through the corner and out.
Carrying corner speed will come with experience.
Acceleration makes your bike stable, braking doesn't.
you should have the majority of your braking done before the corner, if you're still trying to scrub off speed whilst cornering you're doing it wrong. go back to the start and try again.

[Gibbo89]

One strategy often recommended to beginners is to take a powerful sportsbike and in a safe place give it a quick blast to well above 200kph. After doing that anything below about 120 will feel like you are hardly moving and panic is not likely to set in.

Ok, so where can we meet so I can get my grubby wee hands on your R6? :innocent:

I promise I won't take it over 210...

[Maki]

The 200+ advice was a bit tongue in cheek, don't take it too literally.

What I can do is give you some advice. I took and excellent course with Roadsafe in Wellington before I took my basic handling test. We were given a lot of good advice. One of the tips was that if we feel we are going too fast in a corner the solution is to look where you want to go, lean the bike more and stay off the brakes.

The thing that was missing though was advice regarding exactly how you make your bike lean more. The way to do it is to push harder on the inside handlebar (counter-steer harder). I suppose this was not discussed because counter-steering is complicated and just getting that concept across to beginners might take at least a whole day. Remember it and try it in a non threatening situation. Get used to how your bike tightens it's line and leans over more when you counter-steer harder.

[Gorgeousplak]

Greetings, I have just joined tonight on the site so a newbie on the message boards but a "nana" rider on and off over 29 years. However I consider each trip as new and reflect on each ride as a learning experience.
I try to approach each, whether its to the shop or a longer trip on full alert..
Good luck and hope you recover well!

[R-Soul]

The 200+ advice was a bit tongue in cheek, don't take it too literally.

What I can do is give you some advice. I took and excellent course with Roadsafe in Wellington before I took my basic handling test. We were given a lot of good advice. One of the tips was that if we feel we are going too fast in a corner the solution is to look where you want to go, lean the bike more and stay off the brakes.

The thing that was missing though was advice regarding exactly how you make your bike lean more. The way to do it is to push harder on the inside handlebar (counter-steer harder). I suppose this was not discussed because counter-steering is complicated and just getting that concept across to beginners might take at least a whole day. Remember it and try it in a non threatening situation. Get used to how your bike tightens it's line and leans over more when you counter-steer harder.


Interestingly enough, the tighter the turn that youmake with the bike, the more the energy of the bike is used up by deformations in the tyre. This slows the bike down. The instructr at the ART days described this as "treadwalking".
I went into the corner after the front straight (Jennian corner) at Pukekohe too hot, and decided that instead of grabbing a handful of brakes, I would give treadwalking a go (there is not much runoff area there, and my bike is a commuter - os I needed it in one piece). And it WORKS - its scrubs off a LOT of speed quite quickly.

[SS90]

Hi.

Writing this will hopefully be a bit of a warning to other newbie's, and help me think it over.

Last Sunday I rode from Blenheim over to Nelson, actually about 30min past Nelson. It was the longest ride I have done, having only just got my resticted, and only gone about 100km in one day with lots of stops. I planned to have a couple of breaks, ( have driven it many times) but in the end was late leaving, so only stopped once for about a minute to stretch. The CBR250 went well. and on arriving in Nelson I was still feeling fine pushed on.

I was fine untill I was about 500m from my destination. I forgot that I had been concentrating for almost two hours by now. My mind must have switched off for a second because I suddenly was in a gentle left corner without being ready. I panicked and started to brake, even thoughmy mind told me to look through the corner and turn. I went straight, across the road, and onto the verge, and, doing about 20-30km/h into the ditch (full of nice long, soft grass) almost parrallel to it. Bike flooded, cracked fairings, sore ankle, very lucky. ( Actualy I think God was watching out for me!) Later I rode back to Blen carefully, with about 3 stops.

If I had been alert the corner would have been no problem. Lesson; know your limits, take frequent stops, practice emegency stopping and turning more! Nothing worth posting about, But:

On Thurday, after work, I felt like a ride. Got out the GSX-R250 I had brought off a mate not working and am doing up. It is now running fine. I head out for the open road, reminding myself to stay alert to avoid a repeat of Sunday. After abot 5min, am behind an old ute who is doing about 90km/h. after about a min we come to abit of straight, with a gentle Left corner before it. as we approch I change down and start to speed up. The ute starts to indecate left and pulls over a bit, I indecate right and pull out. the bike accelerates more than I am expecting and, still in the final part of the gentle corner, I instantly loose confidance and throttle off. My only thought is to slow down. I brake as I drift to the Right of the road, I know what is going to happen, and see there is a fence there, no ditch, so brake harder, the front hits some gravel on the right sholder ond is gone, Im thrown left. I was still doing at least 90Km/h, and land on my left shoulder, and slide/rolldown the road.

My mate was following behind on his 150, he and the ute stop. I was able to get off the road then fell down. Rang home and picked the pike up with a trailer. My left sholder of jacket torn down tho thefoam pads, helmet visor broken and helmet badly gouged, jeans torn in several places. Bleading on my legs slightly and sore sholder. Again very lucky. Bike is broken mirror, foot peg, fairing badly cracked, part of frame from seat back bent.

If I had throtteled off, looked through the corner and turned I would have been fine. I was unfamiler with the bike, and was to used to rideing at 70k, so panicked when it felt to fast.

It is going to take me a couple of months to buy a new jacket and helmet, and I might get some of those Draggin Jeans. The GSX-R250 is needing a bit of work too. I am going to have plenty of time to think, and am wondering about my lifespan if I continue. I definatly will need some pratical training!

Clearly motorcycles are not for you.

Give up, and get a Toyota Corolla.

[saxet]

Clearly motorcycles are not for you.

Give up, and get a Toyota Corolla.

Nah mate,you just need a bit more time on the bike a you build your skill level up.
It's pretty easy to over step the mark in any vehicle but for a learner it's easier, tho generally, you're going slower

[Maki]

Interestingly enough, the tighter the turn that youmake with the bike, the more the energy of the bike is used up by deformations in the tyre. This slows the bike down. The instructr at the ART days described this as "treadwalking".
I went into the corner after the front straight (Jennian corner) at Pukekohe too hot, and decided that instead of grabbing a handful of brakes, I would give treadwalking a go (there is not much runoff area there, and my bike is a commuter - os I needed it in one piece). And it WORKS - its scrubs off a LOT of speed quite quickly.

I am not so sure about the deformation. What I am sure of is that when you lean your bike over and get onto the inside of your tire the effective rolling radius of your rear tire decreases (your tyres radius is less at the edge than it is at the center). Less radius = more rotations for a given speed. More rotations = more revs. More revs = more engine braking. More engine braking will thus help you slow down a bit. There is also the effect of accelerating the rate of rotation of your wheels. Action = reaction and the reaction in this case will be to slow your bike down, unless you are actively giving it throttle which I am sure you will not be doing if it feels like you are going too fast.

So, making your bike lean more is a good thing.

[Scorp]

1) You lean your body centreline far to the inside of the bike centre line (to "kiss" the inside mirror)
2) You move back on your seat, and open your inside hip to the corner
3) You find the vanishing point and adjust speed accordingly to be moving as fast as the vanishing point is moving
4) You make sure that your arms are relaxed all the way through the corner - tight grip means heavy movements of the bars and no fine adjustments
5) You point your inside knee through the corner to its exit (not critical - but it helps to remind you about focussing your eyes)



I agree with some of what R-Soul suggests, however, until you become a lot more experienced I would recommend that you ride the way I do:

1) You keep your body in-line with the bike. Neither lean in further, nor lean out. This way you are looking at the same horizon as the bike and will have a much better feel for what the bike is doing.
2) You keep your backside in the same part of the seat. Don't try and move around on the seat. You should be part of the bike, or more correctly, the bike should be an extension of yourself. This will help for smooth riding and reduces the reaction times should the corner be different to what you expect, or should there be an obstacle in the way (eg a cop car doing a U-turn in front of you.)
3) You find the vanishing point and adjust speed accordingly to be moving as fast as the vanishing point is moving
4) You make sure that your arms are relaxed all the way through the corner - tight grip means heavy movements of the bars and no fine adjustments.
5) You keep your knees lightly gripping the tank. Do not move either knee away from the tank for any reason. This keeps the bike as part of you, rather than as something seperate that must be controlled.

The whole point is that you are part of a bike/rider combination. The bike should react to your thoughts, not you reacting to the bike. You are still riding on roads with other road users, once you progress to the race track, then try other techniques to speed up your lap times. Just don't try using race techniques on the road.
I think both of these posts are great advice.

I'm probably at similar place as Danny-Boy on the learning curve. I'm eligible to sit the restricted but still riding on the L plate. I've done about 1,500kms.

I practice a technique somewhere between R-Soul and Jantar, but closer to Jantar. I feel the most important thing to learn at the moment is to make countersteering absolute second nature.

Initially, my focus has been on Jantar's technique - it means you're fully in control of the bike and have an appropriate entry speed well before you take the corner. As a consequence I always came out of the corner feeling "I could have taken that faster" i.e. I was fully in control.

More recently I've been applying a junior version of the techniques R-Soul lists. Countersteering whilst shifting even a modest amount of weight onto the inside side of the bike allows you to keep the bike more upright in the bend. e.g. on a left bend, even just opening your left knee up and leaning towards the left mirror is enough to balance the bike at modest speeds, and to acquire the 'feel' of what leaning out is all about. Like Jantar, I don't shift my butt about in the seat, I just open up one knee and lean a little body weight out.

As a consequence, I'm finding it more comfortable to take bends a little faster, whilst remaining fully in control, and still coming out feeling that I'm taking them slower than I could have. And that's the place I want to keep it for a long time yet.

I find the hardest thing is relaxing my hand grip on the bars. Consciously gripping the tank with both knees before going into the bend helps. But if anyone has any other tips I'd be interested in hearing them. :yes:


I have one absolute golden rule about corners though, and I think it's one that could have saved you Danny-Boy (BTW: really glad to hear you weren't seriously hurt). I treat every single corner on the road as "cornering practice" and focus on trying to apply all the relevant techniques smoothly at 90%-100% of my comfort limit (which right now is very conservative).

And if there's ever anything, anything at all, between me and my 'cornering practice run', e.g. a tailgater, a slow vehicle ahead, or a cyclist, pedestrian, tar bleed, or even a miner bird - I abandon my 'practice run'. By abandon I mean I dial my speed well back and putter slowly through the bend/round the obstacle until all is good again.

In other words, don't try taking a bend and a slow moving ute at the same time.

[Magna83]

Clearly motorcycles are not for you.

Give up, and get a Toyota Corolla.

What a bloody pointless, smart-arse comment to make. If you haven't got any thing nice or constructive to say just put a sock in it.

Cheers for sharing Danny-Boy. The tips from the other riders are a big help to a noob rider like myself. Glad you came through relatively unhurt mate.

[steelphoenix]

Good to hear you're not too banged up - pity about the bikes, but they can be repaired. :yes: Practise more, I guess?

Thanks for the cornering advice, guys - it really helps noobs (well, me at least :P ) to have something to work from...

[Danny-Boy]

Thanks for the advice everyone. MAYBE the bikes can be repaired. Im having trouble tracking down forks fora 1989 GSX-R 250 JG73A. The bike shop say they have been bent before, and are now creased and weak. If anyone know where I could get some would be appreciated.

Cheers, Dan.

[MSTRS]

Try _STAIN_

[R-Soul]

I am not so sure about the deformation. What I am sure of is that when you lean your bike over and get onto the inside of your tire the effective rolling radius of your rear tire decreases (your tyres radius is less at the edge than it is at the center). Less radius = more rotations for a given speed. More rotations = more revs. More revs = more engine braking. More engine braking will thus help you slow down a bit. There is also the effect of accelerating the rate of rotation of your wheels. Action = reaction and the reaction in this case will be to slow your bike down, unless you are actively giving it throttle which I am sure you will not be doing if it feels like you are going too fast.

So, making your bike lean more is a good thing.

Nah mate - I was not braking through the corner, engine braking or otherwise -your best grip is with throttle slightly on.

[Dare]

Nah mate - I was not braking through the corner, engine braking or otherwise -your best grip is with throttle slightly on.

Yes. Best grip is settled suspension during full lean and smooooth braking/throttle.

[FJRider]

What a bloody pointless, smart-arse comment to make. If you haven't got any thing nice or constructive to say just put a sock in it.


Perhaps ... you should take your OWN advice ... :doh:

[Brown Bear]

Sorry to hear you are having such a bad run.I sit my restricted in two weeks and all i can do is agree with what alot of the people are telling you. I have travelled 6000 km in the last six months all on the north shore of Auckland,just doing stop lights,roundabouts,stops,starts,turning for about 2 hours at a time.I also go to the nass run by the people on here.Has been absolutely brilliant in helping me learn to ride safely. One evening one of the people there showed me how to change gear easily just by giving the bike a few rev's before changing down.He explained how it worked,just a small thing but changed my riding drastically for the better.I have found people are more than willing to pass there experience on.I take every opportunity to learn i can.I have been adding motorways at 100km's the last month even thought it breaks my l-plate restriction.I think i am safe enough to now travel at that speed so i can get use to it.Once the L-plate has gone (all going well) i intend to do more open road riding but still attending anything i can to keep me learning.A few stalls in front of cars,buses and at lights over the last six months but people have been understanding and let me start my bike without abusing me,no crashes thank goodness.If possible get a mentor or go along to your local rides there is always someone willing to help.And enjoy riding i love it.

[Magna83]

Perhaps ... you should take your OWN advice ... :doh:

I like the way you left out the rest of my post in you quote :rolleyes:

[FJRider]

I like the way you left out the rest of my post in you quote :rolleyes:

I saw ... what I quoted, as good advice ... the rest ... it got your post count up ... by one.

Fast editing of your post by the way ... well done ...

[Magna83]

I saw ... what I quoted, as good advice ... the rest ... it got your post count up ... by one.

Fast editing of your post by the way ... well done ...

Getting off track here but I feel compelled to comment because you really are a child.

I also just noticed that you went as far as to leave negative rep on some of my other posts, few as they are, purely out of spite.... I think everyone would agree, that makes you a grade A :tugger:

[FJRider]

Getting off track here but I feel compelled to comment because you really are a child.

I also just noticed that you went as far as to leave negative rep on some of my other posts, few as they are, purely out of spite.... I think everyone would agree, that makes you a grade A :tugger:

please dont cry ...you might make me feel bad ... :bleh:

[FJRider]

I also just noticed that you went as far as to leave negative rep on some of my other posts, few as they are, purely out of spite.... I think everyone would agree, that makes you a grade A :tugger:

and what makes you think that (red) rep was mine ... 17 posts to your name does not give you the power to see WHO it was ... another 200 posts to go ... to see that ... :killingme

[Smifffy]

Sucks that you crashed dude. Keep on riding, and keep the shiny side up.

At least you are thinking about it and learning, and haven't seriously injured yourself.

A few thoughts:
I'm glad that you didn't blame the guy in the ute, or the corners/roads but rather looked at what you were doing

Take it slow, find a quiet back road somewhere and go up and down it a lot. Try to find one with a few different corners and start off slow, pull over if there's the odd bit of traffic and let it past, wait until you have a clear bit of road.

Work on being smooth, not on being fast.

Another benefit of this approach is that you can find some good stretches of road that will become favourites for life, and a good testing/proving ground for any bike you ever get.

As an aside, and not at anyone in particular, I think it a shame that because the max cc rating for 6L is 250cc, everyone seems to be encouraged to get a 250 bike.

When I got my L many moons ago, I had what was effectively a road legal 125cc 4 stroke farm bike. Even after I got my full, I then upgraded to a 2 stroke 125 commuter bike - and I thought I was made. Eventually my finances allowed me to get a 4 stroke 250 "sports" bike. This was about 5 years after I got my full.

To be honest, I'd still love to own each of those bikes today, and ocassionally search the models out on TardMe, but it's just a dream.

Edit: PS: When I say go up and down that quiet road a lot - I mean a lot!! - that isn't to say hoon down it.

[avgas]

I know about countersteering, looking where you want to go, position on road, effects of cold, etc. I just hadnt practiced enough for reflex to over-ride the brake reaction.
Sadly the only way you break this is buy having a bit of fun.
Soon as you start enjoying yourself it will all become naturally.
Doubt is a motherfucker, and literally removes all you skills in about 1/100th of a second. I know, I have got doubt mid-corner many years ago......this made me fail in the turn.

At the end of the day you need safe practice. Go to a car park and literally see if you can go faster and faster around it. Eventually you will be kicking out the rear trying to get it sideways (all at about 30kph) - and doubt will be no where near your mind.

Its like a baby trying to walk. It take 2 things - time and attempts. You need your baby steps perfect before you can run.

[R-Soul]

On the track, the thing that really stood out for me was that, when I stopped trying to go "faster", and started trying to just use good technique, without worrying about speed, then it all just happned so naturally, and ended up in me being able to do what I was doing at speeds far in excess of what I could do before.

Speed is LITERALLY all about good technique (not that I claim to be a speed king or anything- but its all relative). When you are using good technique, stuff that seemed unstable and hairy before, now feels settled and solid, and safe, and encourages a bit more exploration of the limits.

PS I am talking about the track here when talking about limits of any kind. But: that same technique when used at slower speeds then gives you a much better sense of control & stability and allows for awareness of other important things, such as Mary Pajero and her 7 kids pulling out of the side road. The same technique also allows for much quicker swerves in emergency situations.