Re-reg nightmare on an old bike

[Dirk]

I'm trying to register from scratch a 1983 VT500c Honda shadow i have no plate, papers or anything I gave VTNZ the frame number and they said there was no record of it anywhere, so i can't register it. Is there anything else i can do to find out the history of the bike? :facepalm:

[Warr]

No need to repeat the obvious ... but you have major problems......

Do you not have any idea where the bike came from ?
If it was imported & never registered there are defined paths & documentation that must be supplied before registration is possible.
Lets just say if it was not previously registered after being imported, it was probably because the documentation was missing. NO point in adding to your grief by trying yourself.

If I was you I would find a friendly dealer who would let you use their 'D plate' and forget any notion of proper registration.

Another possible option would be to locate a VT500c frame that is loaded on VTNZ's register and complete the necessary paperwork to make it yours.

[neels]

There seems to be no way around this, I had the same problem with an old Yamaha I was given with no details, I ended up selling it as a very slow pre-82 race bike. The only workable option appears to be as stated above, find a dead one with a plate and re-frame it.

[davereid]

I'm trying to register from scratch a 1983 VT500c Honda shadow i have no plate, papers or anything I gave VTNZ the frame number and they said there was no record of it anywhere, so i can't register it. Is there anything else i can do to find out the history of the bike? :facepalm:

There is no legal way of doing it.

NZTA should be hung over this.

They will have the record, but it is on microfiche. They can't be arsed looking for it. Even if they did, as they "recover costs" you could not afford the search.

If it was a classic building, or even a bloody 30 year old tree, there would be a long line of government agencies protecting it.

You will have to either forget it, or do it illegally.

(a) Find a frame with live plates and use your angle grinder and battery drill to rebirth it.

Easy and cheap if you can find a frame and plates.

Really common on cars where its easy to find a dead 83 mitsubishi on trade me with live plates.

In fact I would bet that for every car re-vinned the legal expensive way, two are re-birthed the easy cheap way.

The motor-vehicle register must be a joke - making it hard to get a vehicle back on the road has simply destroyed the vehicle registers integrity. And for vehicles that can't provide the paper trail (like your bike) they ALL get done with magic.

However for you, its difficult, as its harder on a bike, as finding a live frame will be a challenge.

(b) Declare it as scratch built and jump through those hoops. This will work, but you may as well have purchased a new bike.

(c) Join MAG. You still wont get your bike on the road, but you get to find out who the enemy are, and piss them off.

Yeah MAG wont support that statement it's ME saying it, they are all nice. I'm not. But join anyway.

www.mag-nz.org

[tigertim20]

I'm trying to register from scratch a 1983 VT500c Honda shadow i have no plate, papers or anything I gave VTNZ the frame number and they said there was no record of it anywhere, so i can't register it. Is there anything else i can do to find out the history of the bike? :facepalm:

just because they say they have no record means nothing. is there evidence to suggest its been on the road? i assume you got it with all lights etc attached, and significant kms on the clock? if thats the case you can assume its been on the road.

If you can just find ONE of the plates it was regoed under, youll be sweet. you dont need the actual plate, just know what digits were on it.

I revinned an FZ that had only ben out for 2 years or so. gave them the vin, and they said, nah, no record of it ever. I found out what its last plate was, and went back wit that and the plate digits, and bam, oh, look at that, yes sir, its right here, revin sir? no problem, enjoy your newly regoed bike sir and off I went.

Talk to the person you got it from, and see if they have any old photos that might show it with a plate. failing that, ask who/where they got it from, and do the same with the prior owner, you might get lucky.

basically, if you can tell them the vin number, and the digits of any plate its ever had, youll be sweet.

[Conquiztador]

The options:

- Do it as a custom built bike. Will then be a 2010 bike and needs all the 2010 gizmos.

- Find a frame with papers, transfer number to yours and you are sweet. (There is a market for frames with papers...)

- Find a old black plate with a old type rego sticker on. Ride in to VTNZ with the police check paper filled in that states that frame, motor and rego is not wanted by police. Tell them that you bought it from this guy (have a reciept showing so) who had it stored in his shed for years and you have resurrected it and want it back on the road. If you get the right guy there will be no problems (been there done that).

- Put a plate from a scooter on it that is all legal and rego paid. Ride inside the law and the chance of being caught is extreamly slim. (My son did this for 3 years, got stopped in one road check and nothing)


Good Luck!

[tigertim20]

The options:

- Do it as a custom built bike. Will then be a 2010 bike and needs all the 2010 gizmos.

- Find a frame with papers, transfer number to yours and you are sweet. (There is a market for frames with papers...)

- Find a old black plate with a old type rego sticker on. Ride in to VTNZ with the police check paper filled in that states that frame, motor and rego is not wanted by police. Tell them that you bought it from this guy (have a reciept showing so) who had it stored in his shed for years and you have resurrected it and want it back on the road. If you get the right guy there will be no problems (been there done that).

- Put a plate from a scooter on it that is all legal and rego paid. Ride inside the law and the chance of being caught is extreamly slim. (My son did this for 3 years, got stopped in one road check and nothing)


Good Luck!

take this advice with a grain of salt, only one of these options are really completely legal

[Conquiztador]

take this advice with a grain of salt, only one of these options are really completely legal

I never stated that this was about "legal".

As a result of the "upgrade" to the LTNZ system all old bikes that were not on the road when the system was updated disappered like they had never existed. When you buy an old bike that is worth putting back on the road you are then faced with "what now?" In many cases the old bike is not for daily transport but for a ride on a sunny sunday or to take to a classic meeting. This is about getting a bike back on the road. And really, what is the harm?

The current "Bikers Right" organisations working on their own agendas have here an issue they could do something about. But why would they? This is not front page news. In the meantime I keep on collecting frames with papers...

[davereid]

take this advice with a grain of salt, only one of these options are really completely legal

Quite correct.

But the illegal options are by far the most common way for vehicles to get back on the road.

NZTA (quite correctly) set the system up to make it tricky for stolen cars to get back on the motor vehicle register.

But they made no easy provision for lapsed vehicles to get back on the system. Possibly because they couldn't think of one, that didn't open the register to abuse.

The law of unintended consequences has struck.

The practical way to get an old, or lapsed vehicle back on the register is to re-birth it it.

So now, the register is full of re-birthed vehicles, and there is a thriving market for VIN tags.

The horse has well and truly bolted here.


The sad thing is, that classic vehicles are being lost forever as a result.

That lovely '46 straight-8 Buick coupe that we all see as a classic, was once just a 20 year old car that no one loved.

Had it been deregistered and the plates handed in, it would never have got back on the road.

The same here. That '83 bike or car is just a tired old vehicle now. So it will have its plates returned and be taken off the register and lost or ever.

Even if it turns out to be a classic, it will never be returned to the road.

[Conquiztador]

Another option could be:

"Split" the bike:

Here: You are allowed to change the frame on a bike. Tell them the old one had a crack and you fitted the other frame. As a "spare part" frame it does not need to be in the system. The bike keeps the same plate and papers, the frame is now part of the bike. And suddenly you have a spare frame. You get a engineers report that it is "fixed" and all sweet again. I would expect that the frames numbers would stay in the system. If I am right in that assumption, then you could build a bike around that frame and get plates for it...

[davereid]

The current "Bikers Right" organisations working on their own agendas have here an issue they could do something about. But why would they? This is not front page news. In the meantime I keep on collecting frames with papers...

Actually, I am meeting the associate minister of transport to discuss this very issue - I am concerned that we are losing classic vehicles.

As I have commented before, if they were buildings or trees, we would be protecting them. But our motoring history is being destroyed.

[Conquiztador]

Actually, I am meeting the associate minister of transport to discuss this very issue - I am concerned that we are losing classic vehicles.

As I have commented before, if they were buildings or trees, we would be protecting them. But our motoring history is being destroyed.

Brilliant! Let us know the outcome! Just don't go closing the current loopholes for us without giving us something better!!!!

[neels]

Actually, I am meeting the associate minister of transport to discuss this very issue - I am concerned that we are losing classic vehicles.

As I have commented before, if they were buildings or trees, we would be protecting them. But our motoring history is being destroyed.
That was exactly what I thought with the bike I had. Very sad that a complete and pretty tidy 1976 bike is unable to be put back on the road due to lack of history. Fair enough that a Yamaha XS360 isn't a particulary exotic bike, but they were only built for a couple of years and there are bugger all of them around (which is why I couldn't find another frame to re-birth it) so I would have though worth some sort of effort to keep around for history's sake.

[jellywrestler]

i did one, went into the cop shop with frame and engine numbers they declared they had no interest then took it straight round to the vin people and 3/4 hr later had a vin and new plate. honda nz should be able to confirm the year of the bike unless it already has a plate with the year on it as many hondas do.
simple really and being pre 89 there's no complex vin checks like brake declaration etc

[red mermaid]

Isn't this just something like going to see your local MP on one of his constituent days at his electorate office.



Actually, I am meeting the associate minister of transport to discuss this very issue - I am concerned that we are losing classic vehicles.

As I have commented before, if they were buildings or trees, we would be protecting them. But our motoring history is being destroyed.

[tigertim20]

I never stated that this was about "legal".

As a result of the "upgrade" to the LTNZ system all old bikes that were not on the road when the system was updated disappered like they had never existed. When you buy an old bike that is worth putting back on the road you are then faced with "what now?" In many cases the old bike is not for daily transport but for a ride on a sunny sunday or to take to a classic meeting. This is about getting a bike back on the road. And really, what is the harm?

The current "Bikers Right" organisations working on their own agendas have here an issue they could do something about. But why would they? This is not front page news. In the meantime I keep on collecting frames with papers...


Quite correct.

But the illegal options are by far the most common way for vehicles to get back on the road.

NZTA (quite correctly) set the system up to make it tricky for stolen cars to get back on the motor vehicle register.

.

Im not disagreeing with ya! Just thought Id make sure the OP was aware of the legalities. OP may very well want to go ahead and use a 'less than legal' option, if they do, I dont really care, but just thought they might want to know whether it was actually legal or not.
alot of the laws around that are a little pedantic at times, Ive been through trying to revin old bikes before too, and its a pain in the arse!

[Dirk]

Thanks everyone for your imput on this matter I will try and explore some of these possibilities, I thought she was all over when I hit a brick wall at VTNZ arn't they a helpful bunch , so I hope i'm on the road by the time summer is over.