Looks like The Hobbit has gone

[JimO]

good work unions, well done comrades we dont want their stinking hundreds of millions of dollars

[Taz]

:whocares: It's just a movie not real life :lol:

[Ronin]

good work unions, well done comrades we dont want their stinking hundreds of millions of dollars

I concur. Although now of course they will be able to say they have a 'moral' victory.

Idiots.

[JimO]

:whocares: It's just a movie not real life :lol:

well some people may care, possibly the ones who work in the fillim industry

[slofox]

well some people may care, possibly the ones who work in the fillim industry

...and those who stand to lose employment...

[HenryDorsetCase]

Commo Kelly trying to justify it this morning made me angry. What a bunch of amateurs.

Basically the local drongo union got captured by the Australian union, who utterly miscalculated their opponent, leaving them looking fucking stupid, and lots of Kiwis out of work.

Hopefully the post production and SFX will be done at Weta still.

I presume the UK studio would be Pinewood, where such classics as Star Wars and Aliens were shot.

[Indiana_Jones]

Why do so many unions fail to see the bigger picture?

Would be nice to see England get it if we can't here. They need the money more then us I think lol

-Indy

[gijoe1313]

What fools these mortals be,
Too deep in the forest to see the trees,
Long lines of unemployment stretches,
For the film union wretches -
One film to rule them all,
And in the halls of finance poised to fall
A tale as old as time, of killing the goose
And with one's fortune played with loose,
One film to rule them all,
For fantasy geeks held in thrall ...

[rustyrobot]

It wasn't clear to me what it was all about anyway. The media reports have only been about the fracas, not whatever it was that the actors union wanted and the film's backers didn't.

Anyone have any idea what they were asking for/denying?

[Laava]

Money of course? The sole reason for any union to cause such a fuss

[rustyrobot]

With analysis like that, you could work for the NZ media! :yes:

[Grasshopperus]

Why do so many unions fail to see the bigger picture?


I think the Aussie union is seeing the bigger picture; sabotage your cheapo neighbour's industry using local turn-coats and stooges.


Also, Gijoe... fantastic mate :)

[MikeL]

I think that when all the smoke clears and it becomes apparent what machiavellian manipulations have gone on, the studios will not emerge squeaky clean as the hapless victims of bolshy unionism...

[JimO]

I think that when all the smoke clears and it becomes apparent what machiavellian manipulations have gone on, the studios will not emerge squeaky clean as the hapless victims of bolshy unionism...

perhaps but its their 500million

[Laava]

rotten little hobbitses!

[dogsnbikes]

I concur. Although now of course they will be able to say they have a 'moral' victory.

Idiots.

second that.....

who needs the gubbermint to cause unemployment the unions are doing a super job by them selfs

hobbit = employment and turnover

union + greed = unemployment

Thankyou Unions for denying the 1000's of people who would have gained employment in the many different trades required too film the Hobbit..

Thankyou Unions for helping me relise your a bunch of useless fuckwits

Thankyou Unions for now making me $20 a week richer
,now I wont be paying union fee's

[-df-]

Just read this...paints a completley different picture than what is in the media at the moment.

http://www.getfrank.co.nz/peter-jackson-responds-to-union-attack-on-the-hobbit/

if thats legit...well, no words needed really.

[scissorhands]

'I think that when all the smoke clears and it becomes apparent what machiavellian manipulations have gone on, the studios will not emerge squeaky clean as the hapless victims of bolshy unionism...'

A lot of milage to be gained by the bosses:innocent:. OZ dollar just went higher than the US with little fan fair. Plenty of good times in OZ, the lucky country. I like their unions. NZ sucks in comparison, the workers need more security and autonomy. The 9 day fortnight, or 3 day weekend, what a good fucking idea but noooooooooooooooooooooo

[JimO]

have as many 3 day weekends as you like, do you expect the employer to pay you for your time of?? mind you you could always fuck off to auss if its so good there

[Oakie]

It wasn't clear to me what it was all about anyway. The media reports have only been about the fracas, not whatever it was that the actors union wanted and the film's backers didn't.

Anyone have any idea what they were asking for/denying?

>To be treated as employees instead of contractors for the legislative protection i guess (expensive for the company because of all the compliance costs plus stuff like annual leave, sick leave, acc employer levy). Gives them the ability to negotiate a collective and go on strike.
>To get residuals from ongoing sales (I believe)

[Kiwi Graham]

When are the fucking unions going to realise there is a recession on!!!

Teachers union, radiographers union, actors union get fucking real for fucks sake!!!

Think your worth more money??
Then go get a job that pays more!!
Don't try and squeeze blood out of a stone.

[Gremlin]

excellent... you have several actors employed, but the conditions aren't great.

You play hard ball... and now the conditions AND pay are non-existent because they're all out of work.

Time to sit back and cry success huh? :facepalm:

[tri boy]

Theres always shortland street.:killingme

[SPman]

mind you you could always fuck off to auss if its so good there

I did, and lo - it was good!

There's far more to this dispute than it seems the media care to report about - but then, what do you expect from that general bunch of semi literates.......

[rustyrobot]

When are the fucking unions going to realise there is a recession on!!!


CEO pay lifts off as profits stagnate (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wages-and-salaries/news/article.cfm?c_id=277&objectid=10652903)
Despite most of the companies surveyed reporting falling profits, the pause in pay rises for top executives appears to have been limited to a single year.

The average pay rise received by chief executives increased from 1 per cent in 2008 to 13 per cent last year.


Big pay rises for bosses (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10643251)
A survey, released today, of 455 chief executives, general managers and managing directors found 48 per cent received a salary increase last year.

[Ocean1]

>To be treated as employees instead of contractors for the legislative protection i guess (expensive for the company because of all the compliance costs plus stuff like annual leave, sick leave, acc employer levy). Gives them the ability to negotiate a collective and go on strike.
>To get residuals from ongoing sales (I believe)

In other words they wanted the best of both worlds. The protection offered by the labour laws to employees and the commercial freedom of a contractor.

Wankers.

And yeah, there IS a golden rule. Get used ot it.

[JMemonic]

Enjoy your day off on Monday......


Oh yeah none of you will take that.

I believe the unions are simply asking for parity with their overseas counterparts whilst working on this film and the same rights to residual sales and profits, the movie company just wants to make the film in the cheapest location possible with as many tax breaks they can get. I understand the rings movies whilst they paid a lot of folks to be in work the income to the country was negligible once offset against the tax credits.

Didn't Sir Peter have take the studios to court to even get the millions he was owed?

Aww fuck it they are just kiwis and who the hell do they think they are asking for a fair deal.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Russ Brown's piece in publicaddress is worth reading:

http://publicaddress.net/6916#post6916

[davebullet]

Rule of life.

It's ok to say "fuck you" when you have a plan B (aka alternative employment)... (well it's rarely ok because we live in a small country and word gets around)

They did have all of that sorted before they gave the big ol' "fuck you" right?

[EJK]

Hobbits are so 2001

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hobbits are so 2001

unions are so 1908

[slofox]

unions are so 1908

Dat were my gramfarver orgamanised that 1908 strike I'll 'ave ya know...

[Paul in NZ]

Dat were my gramfarver orgamanised that 1908 strike I'll 'ave ya know...

Actually - My grandfather was a secretary in the Tramways Union during the depression - unions have their place but this aint it....

[slofox]

Actually - unions have their place but this aint it....

Agreed...bastards!

[JimO]

i doubt Robyn Malcom has a chance of getting a part in a warner film in the near future

[pete376403]

>.
>To get residuals from ongoing sales (I believe)

They'd already got that - Jackson had negotiated that with Warners, that non-SAG actors *would* get residuals from The Hobbit. But I guess those residuals will be going to Ireland or wherever now

CTU, Helen Kelly and Equity have shot themselves in the foot big time.

[pete376403]

I concur. Although now of course they will be able to say they have a 'moral' victory.

Idiots.

I believe the term is "Phyrric Victory"

[spacemonkey]

i doubt Robyn Malcom has a chance of getting a part in a warner film in the near future



Interesting to note that pretty much ALL the leadership of Equity don't need film work to get by.
They are all stage and TV actors who have made their names and don't need Hollywood money to make an excellent living in the NZ acting industry...... Ain't it great when you get play god with OTHER peoples lives eh Robyn Malcolm?

Oh and as to the demands?....
(from the Hardnews blog dated yesterday)

But it was telling that the CTU's Helen Kelly said on Nightline last night that the Equity meeting had been called for members to discuss "what they wanted in terms of terms and conditions".

You're saying that after all this -- you still don't know what you want?

Fuck me what a pack of incompetent fuckwits!!!!!!! :blink::facepalm:
In other words they blacklisted the movie and claimed their demands were being ignored BEFORE THEY EVEN HAD ANY DEMANDS!!!!!!!
Arrrgh the stupid it burns us my peeeecious!

[Brian d marge]

8 hours work

8 hours sleep

and 8 hours motorcycling thats what Unions got ya , ( Nz unions did this :gob: if I remember )

and the average Kiwi lost it all by doing nowt ......

But on saying that , fat 50 year old commodore driving , wastes of space , that 1, Think the world starts and stops in NZ ,
2, haven't realized the world has changed since 1950

aren't the unions of Today.

Unions are here to work with the company so that BOTH parties come out on top , by showing management a more effective way , and at the same time improving the lot of the great unwashed

Mr Jackson is making a movie

he wanted to make the movie in NZ , because its cheaper and the quality is good , ( value for money )

if you want to work for Mr Jackson , u can but the money is low , So ( and just a thought off the top of my head ) maybe the unions could have said , yes money crap but we will use this to promote you on the global market , so that you will earn more in the future

Win win

but commodore driving fat wo(man ) has been a bit short sighted IMHO based on NZ news media

Stephen

[Maki]

The film industry is all about smoke and mirrors. They created a fantasy where they are being bullied so the will just have to throw their toys and leave New Zealand. Of course they will stay in the end but be in a better negotiating position with respect to employees and the government. Sir Peter will be laughing all the way to the bank.


PS
I have been in and out of a large NZ union. When I found out that they are more interested in earning $ than they are in representing their members I departed. Now I represent myself and use the money otherwise spent on the union to fill my bike up with fuel...

[Woodman]

The actors equity dickshits are a bunch of selfish idealstic morons.

They are only interested in feathering their own nests. The fact that they were questioning jacksons choices of actors and suggesting actors that were members of actors equity speaks volumes to me.

There are not many jobs out there at the moment and they are adding to peoples pain. They need to have a good look around and see whats going on out there in 2010 not fucken 1950.

[Brian d marge]

ipredict says ...

https://www.ipredict.co.nz/app.php?do=contract_detail&contract=HOBBIT.DEPART

bit of a drop

Stephen

[terbang]

I'm sort of wondering it it is more about a weakening US dollar than subversive kiwi actors.

As a parallel, over the past 20 years, the Aussie airlines have been taking advantage of a weaker NZ dollar and more "employer friendly" industrial laws in NZ. Remember Ansett, now Jetstar and Virgin Blue? These Aussie airlines have all taken full advantage of a cheap workforce in New Zealand. The good side, they provided jobs for kiwis. The not so good side, they have progressively reduced kiwi pilots to being, what is often referred to as "the Pakistanis or Bangladeshis" of the south pacific as many Kiwi pilots are now among the lowest paid in the western world.

I am sure that US movie makers have a similar agenda with NZ right now and with their US dollar falling apart, their cheap labour force isn't that cheap anymore. So I guess they have attempted to trim things somewhat and have sparked a reaction from the unions. In my view Americans are as devious as they are stupid, so the truth will will be buried under many layers of bullshit.

As far as Peter Jackson is concerned, I flew his Gulfstream for two years during the making of LOTR and King Kong, I was the only Captain on the new type of aircraft that came to NZ. I really enjoyed flying for a very nice family who truly do care at a human level about those who work for them.
However, like most large businesses they use accountants and all manner of bean counters to look after their business affairs, often those sort of people have incentive by having their snouts in the trough. These are the ones who really don't give a care about the human element, just the bottom line dollar.

They could have had a couple of yanks flying their plane, but instead chose the extra expense of putting the aircraft on the NZ register to allow it to be operated and maintained by Kiwi's. However, as a result of a mean as shit aviation middle man and unbeknown to the Jacksons, we were among the lower paid Gulfstream pilots, flight attendants and engineers on the planet.

It was a lifestyle job and I shan't complain as we all gained a lot of personal development out of it and were really fond of, and got on well with our regular passengers. They enhanced our careers and if LOTR had been made overseas, then we would surely all still be grinding to and fro across the Tasman in a Boeing Bus.

My point is that Kiwis are seen as cheap labour by overseas investors for two reasons, exchange rate and favourable industrial laws. Here we have a bunch of yanks who have put themselves and us into this recession quagmire that has also killed their dollar. And yet they are still prepared to screw kiwis (Peter Jackson included) down to maintain profit.

But then I guess Kiwi companies have call centres in India as well. Dog eat Dog.

Yup it will be a shame for the Hobitt to go elsewhere as a lot of Kiwis, from the tea maker to the actors will miss out on a fantastic experience. I know first hand that Peter and Fran have the utmost regard for and will go out of their way to ensure that Kiwi's will be part of and benefit from this production. Though that may not be the primary concern of their american business associates or some green eyed and interfering Aussie unions.

[Zimsar10]

Hello!

Guys & gals, it's time to stand up & support this great Rally & show Warner Brothers how much we want The Hobbit to be filmed in New Zealand!

I know that bikers are fantastic supporters of deserving events, so lets get together to support this Wonderful Rally!


"Rally to support filming of "The Hobbit" in New Zealand".

All the details are here:


Time: 25 October · 12:30 - 14:00

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=127389750649753&ref=mf

Organised by D. Mark Harrison

RALLIES FOR ALL NEW ZEALANDERS, Industry & public on Labour Day Monday, 12.30-2pm!

Auckland, QEII Square; Wellington, Civic Square; Christchurch, Cathedral Square; Hamilton, Garden Place; Matamata, Gollum Statue; Queenstown, The Villiage Green & anywhere else you are!

These POSITIVE rallies of support are timed to coincide with the visit of Warner Bros. movie executives to discuss moving The Hobbit away from NZ. We're going to show them that we like them, we want The Hobbit filmed here and we SUPPORT Sir Peter.
...
These rallies will also emphasize the points other groups like film techs intend to make in the national media to influence Warners.

They are NOT protests against certain groups.

Rally locations will be announced shortly but will likely be the usual spots for such activities.

Invite ALL of your friends!!!

"Is the movie going to come or go? We don't know. Warners are coming here next Monday and we've got to fight like hell,"
Sir Peter Jackson.

Promoted by:
http://www.facebook.com/hobbitnz

Auckland rally: 12.30pm-2pm Labour Day Monday, Queen Elizabeth II Square, opposite Britomart Train Station. If there are large numbers we'll move into the sun on Queens Wharf!


:yes:I encourage you all to Tweet, Facebook, Text message, EVERYONE you know so that maximum numbers for this event are obtained!
:woohoo:
Thanks so much for your time people!


Regards,

Grant

[Zimsar10]

:whocares: It's just a movie not real life :lol:

It's WAY more than "just a movie"!

It's also about keeping New Zealand as a prime destination for more movies to be filmed here, which have massive spin-offs for the New Zealand economy.

Case & point - prior to Lord of the Rings - Matamata had 20,000 visitors per year, after the first LOTR movie that jumped dramatically to 364,000 people per year & is still around 200,000 per year right now.

New Zealand's Weta Digital done all of the Digital Effects for Avatar, which is the biggest grossing movie of all time & they have been involved in MANY other productions.

It's time for New Zealanders to show how much they want this movie kept in New Zealand - so let's do it guys & gals & support the Rally tomorrow!

[Winston001]

I haven't been able to tease out the truth about this fiasco. Actors Equity and Helen Kelly say they simply wanted to talk to the film producers regarding wages and conditions. Nothing startling or even noteworthy about that.

Instead the public message which hit the streets was that Australian unions were calling for a boycott of The Hobbit. :facepalm:

What the hell actually happened here? Anybody know the correct info?

[Usarka]

unions are so 1908

1914. The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists.

[James Deuce]

I haven't been able to tease out the truth about this fiasco. Actors Equity and Helen Kelly say they simply wanted to talk to the film producers regarding wages and conditions. Nothing startling or even noteworthy about that.

Instead the public message which hit the streets was that Australian unions were calling for a boycott of The Hobbit. :facepalm:

What the hell actually happened here? Anybody know the correct info?

Yes. The Australian Union advised the NZ Union to invoke a Blacklist of The Hobbit as Australian actors earn 4 times that of their NZ counterparts on average. This ignores the different focus for actors in Aus who typically have access to a broader range of locally made TV drama and comedy, where NZ actors rely on Feature Films. It also ignores some fundamental differences in Employment Law between Australia and NZ.

In so doing they invoked SAG and the British Equity Union, thereby making it impossible for the production team to hire any name actors while the blacklist was in place as all SAG members and all British Equity members were unable to sign up for The Hobbit.

In the meantime Warner Bros. have decided to use this as an excuse to utilise the production facilities made vacant by Harry Potter and to reduce MGM's overheads in doing so.

The Union and the CTU kept telling Philippa Boyens and Fran Walsh that the blacklisting would be removed - for 30 days. It didn't happen which gave Warner Brothers the leverage it sought to take a more active part in the production of The Hobbit. Warner Brothers will be coming to NZ to tell Peter Jackson where the movie is moving to. They aren't going to waste their time coming here to do anything else.

The emotional reaction from the Producers and the Director of The Hobbit is entirely down to the standover tactics of the CTU and the NZ Actors Equity Union. It is illegal in NZ for contractors (which is what actors in NZ are) to set minimum standards for income expectations as this is regarded as price fixing. That is why Peter Jackson refused to meet with them because he then would have had his arse in the fire for not only illegally setting minimum income levels for actors, he would have also made it impossible for the average NZ film maker, you know, one with no money, to make movies in NZ ever again. The CTU and NZ actor's equity ignored the fact that it is illegal to set minimum income levels for contractors in NZ and they refused to lift the blacklist.

I went to the Wellington rally today. I bumped into a mate who I have played in bands with and he was one of the Riders of Rohan in The Lord of the Rings. Like every person who has ever worked for Peter Jackson he had nothing but praise for his ethics and was more than happy with what he was paid for his work. Getting paid for doing ANYTHING arty in NZ is a major achievement.

[Winston001]

Thanks Jim, that clarifies the situation. I feel sorry for Robyn Malcolm who is on a hiding to nothing trying to defend her union which has been caught up in a trap not of its making.

And as you say, professional acting in NZ is a very thin profession with few people actually able to make a living. The chance to join in a major movie is worth it for the experience alone.

One point: the various unions (there are more than just actors involved) with movie making, do not accept the independent contractors argument. There is no reason why an actor, cameraman, or makeup artist cannot be an employee. Except - its much simpler for the production company if they are contractors.

There was a LOTR employment case: Bryson v Three Foot Six Limited http://www.ipsofactoj.com/international/2006/Part01/int2006%2801%29-013.htm which found Mr Bryson was an employee, not an independent contractor.

[James Deuce]

One point: the various unions (there are more than just actors involved) with movie making, do not accept the independent contractors argument. There is no reason why an actor, cameraman, or makeup artist cannot be an employee. Except - its much simpler for the production company if they are contractors.

There was a LOTR employment case: Bryson v Three Foot Six Limited http://www.ipsofactoj.com/international/2006/Part01/int2006%2801%29-013.htm which found Mr Bryson was an employee, not an independent contractor.

Correct BUT it is the rare individual who isn't working for Weta workshops who can be regarded as a film industry employee.

The union may not accept the contracting argument but the vast majority of NZ film industry workers, actors and technicians, are very happy with the arrangement, and from a legal standpoint Peter jackson can't meet with the unions to discuss minimum earnings for contractors. The union may not like it, but it's a point of law.

I remember the Three Foot Six judgement when it came out and a gaffer friend of mine pointed out that Bryson will be lucky to get work cleaning toilets on a film set.

I DON'T feel sorry for Robyn Malcolm. She's been sucked in by Jennifer Ward-Leland who is the union head.

[Big Dave]

What does a gaffer do?

[Banditbandit]

What does a gaffer do?

Gaffs ??? ...

[James Deuce]

What does a gaffer do?
Head of the electrical dept.

[Winston001]

Rolls up used duct tape and then sells it to the Poms. Very popular over there I believe. Sold as Gaffer Tape.....:innocent:

[MikeL]

It's WAY more than "just a movie"!

It's also about keeping New Zealand as a prime destination for more movies to be filmed here, which have massive spin-offs for the New Zealand economy.



Why stop at Hobbits?

I've been involved in the international education industry which also contributes hugely to the economy. However rising costs are deterring many foreign students from coming here. One of the major costs of course is teachers' salaries. If these teachers could just see reason and accept say a 20% cut in their pay the business would boom and we would all be better off. But no, the teacher unions in their short-sighted way won't consider the broader picture and continue to hold us all to ransom. Sheer selfishness. Anyone who's got half a brain knows that the only solution is a law change to redefine teachers as self-employed contractors, not employees. That will put an end to all this union nonsense.

[James Deuce]

Why stop at Hobbits?

I've been involved in the international education industry which also contributes hugely to the economy. However rising costs are deterring many foreign students from coming here. One of the major costs of course is teachers' salaries. If these teachers could just see reason and accept say a 20% cut in their pay the business would boom and we would all be better off. But no, the teacher unions in their short-sighted way won't consider the broader picture and continue to hold us all to ransom. Sheer selfishness. Anyone who's got half a brain knows that the only solution is a law change to redefine teachers as self-employed contractors, not employees. That will put an end to all this union nonsense.

Nope, you've utterly missed the point there. 99% of the NZ film industry is happy earning between $500 and $1000 per day for actors and extras and up to three times that for technicians. They are happy working as contractors. A tiny minority of the NZ film industry (200 AE members) has held the majority to ransom and possibly wrecked the biggest potential earner many of these people will see in the next 10 years.

What shouldn't happen now is Warners being allowed to set employment policy for NZers, but that will happen and it is about to happen BECAUSE of union involvement in a non-union production (from a NZ perspective), not in spite of.

There is NO parallel between teachers and film industry workers. That is one of the flaws in arguments presented by the CTU. One of many.

[MikeL]

There is NO parallel between teachers and film industry workers. That is one of the flaws in arguments presented by the CTU. One of many.

I would never suggest that the union is blameless in this sorry saga. It is quite likely that incompetence, if nothing more, has handed those with power (the studios on the one hand and the government on the other) an opportunity which they will not fail to exploit. Nevertheless the establishing of a precedent opens a door which can't easily be closed again. You say that there is no parallel between the two scenarios. That is true at present, simply because the teachers have not (yet) been presented with the same threat. But how can you be so sure that the principle won't apply? I can see no qualitative difference between the two.

This is a slippery slope, and if the spectacle of the prime minister scurrying about and all but tugging his forelock before the American studio executives doesn't strike you as deeply disturbing, it just shows how far down that slope we have already travelled.

So I don't think I've missed the point; there are broader issues here than you imply.

[James Deuce]

Did you read the second paragraph Mike or are you selectively ignoring that one to bolster your own PoV?

[rustyrobot]

This is a slippery slope, and if the spectacle of the prime minister scurrying about and all but tugging his forelock before the American studio executives doesn't strike you as deeply disturbing, it just shows how far down that slope we have already travelled.

This is exactly how I felt when I watched the news last night. It seems undeniable that the handling of this whole debacle by the unions involved has been appalling, but it made me cringe to see John Key begging and scraping to the studio execs (despite his posturing to the media). There should have been a minister who could do that, it is humiliating for a country's leader to be prostituting our tax laws and employment legislation for a big corporation that has allegiances only to the biggest profit.

I truly hope that the hobbit movie is made in New Zealand, but I would like to see us retain some dignity in the process. Would the same tax breaks be available to NZ film-makers? Or other local producers who can provide employment opportunities?

(oh, and thanks for your explanation James Deuce, very enlightening)

[Marmoot]

A lot of decision makers in NZ seems to have a very short memory.

Clearly nothing was learned from the fall of foreign-student market in 2005 where Winston Peters single-handedly destroyed million-dollar industry. With the sudden death of the foreign student influx, there came inner-city property price destruction, used car market collapse and now we are reaping the effect where the universities no longer have enough cross-subsidy between the markets to accommodate low-fee domestic students.

True that some minor situations may differ between this and the film industry situation, but it simply illustrates clearly that we have a hobbit (err....habbit) of shooting ourselves on the foot.

Interestingly, there is a poll in Stuff today asking whether the taxpayer should fork out extra to keep The Hobbit in NZ. I'd say no, let the Unionist fix the mess they created.

[MikeL]

Did you read the second paragraph Mike or are you selectively ignoring that one to bolster your own PoV?

Not deliberately ignoring it. You are right to criticise the union for its handling of this whole affair, but you seem to think that the undesirable consequences of this blunder are inevitable. Having been manipulated into a situation in which there is no win-win scenario, what should the taxpayers of this country, via their elected representatives, salvage from the mess? Either self-respect, with the refusal to rush into ill-considered legislation and further tax concessions, which will create a precedent and ongoing pressures, or the short-term economic benefit of capitulating to overseas interests? People who think that autonomy and sovereignty are a luxury which NZ can't afford have already consigned us to the third world.

[Bald Eagle]

People who think that autonomy and sovereignty are a luxury which NZ can't afford have already consigned us to the third world.

We have been third world for some time now in case you hadn't noticed.

[mashman]

:rofl:@ the union bashing... aye, it's all their fault... PJ himself understands that it's the Ozzy mob trying to impose its will using their Ozzy union as a medium to control NZ actors. NZ Equity (may as well call them MEAANZ) are saying that only their members can act in the film... WTF!!! Surely it should be the right person for the right job, irrespective of union allegiances, nationality or any other twisted reason for that matter... apparantly not :killingme

The Ozzy meddling have scared off Warner Bros, no more no less. I'd be seeking "compensation" from Oz, not a subsidy from the NZ public... your leaders are fucking you in the ass and you're asking to swallow it afterwards :killingme absolutely priceless...

What a bunch of spoiled jumped up fuckwits... where's my money, i want my cut, money money money :killingme and that's not even a request from NZ'ers, it's a request from HorseTrailer... or did you miss that FACT!

Fortunately though, JK spend your money to make it right...

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

From what I can ascertain:

1) The unionists (NZ, OZ or otherwise) tried to use the disruption of a singular production (The Hobbit) to acheive their aims.

2) The opening gambit of using their strongest tactic (black balling) is what seems to have caused the main issue (of NZ losing the Hobbit).

The first bit seems distinctly unfair on those assocaited with the targetted production.

The second seems distinctly unprofessional in their approach.

The outcome, of both, seems to be that the union actions created the opening for the studios to move the production of the film.

The studios do only care about money. They are profit geared organisations with no interest in public good, just the returns to their financial backers.

I actually think that the National government has been put in a shitty situation. They are damned if they do make a deal (giving away tax payers hard earned money) or don't make a deal (forever labeled as the government that doomed the NZ film industry).

[SPman]

I actually think that the National government has been put in a shitty situation. They are damned if they do make a deal (giving away tax payers hard earned money) or don't make a deal (forever labeled as the government that doomed the NZ film industry). But you can be sure they are looking for a way to turn it to their political advantage....wouldn't be surprised if they try and utilise this event to pillage and burn labour laws to the ultimate disadvantage of more than just actors......

[Winston001]

....but it made me cringe to see John Key begging and scraping to the studio execs (despite his posturing to the media). There should have been a minister who could do that, it is humiliating for a country's leader to be prostituting our tax laws and employment legislation for a big corporation that has allegiances only to the biggest profit.



Funny old world. My perception of John Key was quite different from the bits I saw on the news. He said that if there was a bidding war, NZ was out of it. That is exactly what I hoped he would say. Keep our dignity.

I think the PM met with Warners partly to flatter them - not many heads of state would do that - and to reassure them the union issue has settled down. He was also under the gun because of the public distress and had to be seen to be doing something.

Realistically, Key knows this movie is small beer in terms of the total economy. Yes we want it made here, but the sky won't fall if it moves to London. I'll be saddened because Tolkien's saga has come to be identified with this country and we are the richer for it.

[Bald Eagle]

There should have been a minister who could do that, it is humiliating for a country's leader to be prostituting our tax laws and employment legislation for a big corporation that has allegiances only to the biggest profit.



Totally expected as JK is profit driven and not that long removed from being 'one of them' . So it's the game he's used to playing.

[JimO]

Totally expected as JK is profit driven and not that long removed from being 'one of them' . So it's the game he's used to playing.

being one of them is way better than being some greenie /labour / bludger / politician

[Maki]

The film industry is all about smoke and mirrors. They created a fantasy where they are being bullied so the will just have to throw their toys and leave New Zealand. Of course they will stay in the end but be in a better negotiating position with respect to employees and the government. Sir Peter will be laughing all the way to the bank.


PS
I have been in and out of a large NZ union. When I found out that they are more interested in earning $ than they are in representing their members I departed. Now I represent myself and use the money otherwise spent on the union to fill my bike up with fuel...

I have to congratulate myself for being proved 100% right.

[James Deuce]

OK the argument is moot.

The Hobbit is being filmed in NZ.

Wheee!

[spacemonkey]

Aaand corporate welfare was the winner on the day.

Thanks to the morons at actors inequity for the pointless shitstir, the tax payer now gets to fork out more to rich hollywood exec's. :facepalm:

[Paul in NZ]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10683486

Good oh....

Basically - I'm over the whole fucking thing. The govt of the day has destroyed a bunch of other domestic industries in the past (like mine) so its nice to see them saving one but frankly -I'll read the bloody book again, its more interesting and far less stressful..

[SPman]

being one of them is way better than being some greenie /labour / bludger / politician
Oh well, 2 out of 4 ain't bad.......

[James Deuce]

Aaand corporate welfare was the winner on the day.

Thanks to the morons at actors inequity for the pointless shitstir, the tax payer now gets to fork out more to rich hollywood exec's. :facepalm:

Indeed. Tax people for watching Outrageous Fortune to claw the money back.

[Woodman]

I wonder how Jennifer Ward-British-Leyland feels now??

[James Deuce]

I wonder how Jennifer Ward-British-Leyland feels now??

Thrilled that she used Robyn Malcolm as a human shield, no doubt.

[spacemonkey]

Indeed. Tax people for watching Outrageous Fortune to claw the money back.

I think it would be fitting if the OF set crew all went out on strike demanding more pay and residuals like the ones Peter Jackson was offering. :innocent:

[Winston001]

The ownership, financing, and control of the two Hobbit films is much more complex than I thought. The production will be shared by New Line Cinema and Metro Goldwyn Meyer. Warner Bros will look after domestic US distribution - which begs the question of why they are in NZ at all?

The answer is MGM is stonkered - bankrupt. Warners are trying to buy it so protecting this movie is good business, but you can also see why cutting costs on an enormous project makes sense. I'm now surprised The Hobbit has been saved. Great news. :niceone:

[JimO]

I wonder how Jennifer Ward-British-Leyland feels now??

she probably feels pretty good, all warm and squishy

[James Deuce]

The answer is MGM is stonkered - bankrupt. Warners are trying to buy it so protecting this movie is good business, but you can also see why cutting costs on an enormous project makes sense.

Absolutely (I forgot to mention that part) and MGM owe billions too. Warner Bros. have turned down merger and sale offers from MGM recently and some pundits suspect that Warner Bros. will try and mitigate that debt before they take on board any financial aspects of a deal with MGM.

NZ is "just" the scenery after all, hence why moving it to the UK would have made sense for Warner Bros. Weta can still do their stuff, it's just film crew and actors who would have paid the price if it had moved.

[Zimsar10]

Hi guys,

For anyone who is interested, I have compiled a comprehensive, multimedia report on The Hobbit Fiasco.

I have explained, why, in my honest opinion, how The Hobbit was nearly completely derailed & furthermore, I have included videos/articles about:


The Hobbit Rally Promotion
The Hobbit Rally - Wellington coverage
John Key's FULL Announcement - RE: The Hobbit
An article from the Waikato Times & also The National Business Review


This makes it easy to find everything you require, in one place

All of which can be viewed below on my blog:


http://grantisnz.wordpress.com/2010/10/29/the-truth-not-what-the-australian-meaa-or-nz-actors-equity-might-say-re-the-hobbit-fiasco/

[Paul in NZ]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10684235

I guess the left really hate sir peter

[oldrider]

True! Matt is a moron and while Kiwi's riled against the Aussie inference then, how will it go now that they have beaten the All Blacks again! :girlfight:

[Zimsar10]

True! Matt is a moron and while Kiwi's riled against the Aussie inference then, how will it go now that they have beaten the All Blacks again! :girlfight:

WTF! That is Australia's first win in the last 11 matches (The AB's won 10 straight) between them & the All Blacks!

You make it sound like it's a regular occurrence, when that couldn't be further from the truth.

[spacemonkey]

You make it sound like it's a regular occurrence, when that couldn't be further from the truth unless it's a world cup year.



Fixed for moar accuracy! :innocent::killingme

[Zimsar10]

Fixed for moar accuracy! :innocent::killingme

That remains to be seen! Since we are hosting the RWC next year - it's probably our best ever chance of winning it again & we have a superb record at Eden Park.

Go The All Blacks!

Now - here are some VERY interesting - up to date - stats on the entire All Blacks History of Rugby, proving we have the BEST Test record of any Rugby Team in the World:


http://www.nzallblacks.net/All_Blacks_Statistics