Police above reproach?

[Expert]

I've done some stupid things in my life,felt i've come close to death a number of times, but earlier in the week i almost got hit by a copper in a police pursuit and i shit my pants (nearly).
I was in st helliers and the cops were chasing a guy in a lowered mercedes.
I don't care what this guy had done, nothing justified the reckless driving by the popo trying to stop him. They had a helicopter out, all they had to do was sit and wait.
Their reckless disregard for public safety was astonishing, it was the worst driving i have ever seen by anyone, ever, in the world.
I don't think i'm being sensationalist when i say i was suprised i didn't see dead people that day.
i can see how innocent people get killed by the cops, or the bloke getting chased by the cops.
i don't know what the answer is to the chase or not to chase question, but nothing in my mind justified what i saw, right past a school, those lollipop girls out practising their crossing procedure with the swinging lollipop things. frightening.

I had little love for the cops before but that's gone now, disgusted.


.

[Taz]

Runner was probably 5km over speed limit....

Or got the last donut?

[Murray]

Did the lowered mercedes face past the lollipops???

[Rych]

Yea the fleeing driving / police pursuit thing is a tough one and there have been a lot of incidents as of late. All the deaths have been caused by the fleeing driver rather than the police themselves but if police abandon possibly lives could be saved. Depends on the severity of the crime committed by the fleeing driver to be honest. If it were a minor speeding offense let them go, if they just ran someone over or committed an armed robbery then sometimes pulling out is not an option.

All comes down to time, place, circumstances etc ah. That sucks that you were in a position where you feared for your life because of the actions of the police vehicle though.

Even though police have an option to pull out, the public needs to realize the dangers of running from the police, just pull over. It's worth it in NZ to run from police in terms of punishment, we are far too soft, it should be a jail time offense like in the states. There is no defense for failing to stop it's blatant disregard for the law, you don't fail to stop by accident.

[shrub]

Even though police have an option to pull out, the public needs to realize the dangers of running from the police, just pull over. It's worth it in NZ to run from police in terms of punishment, we are far too soft, it should be a jail time offense like in the states. There is no defense for failing to stop it's blatant disregard for the law, you don't fail to stop by accident.

if it was jail time, even more people would run. In my opinion, the main reason people run from cops is because of the high penalties (loss of license, big fines, confiscation etc). I know a guy who is a bit of a boy racer. He's generally a normal, main stream guy with a good job, a home, a partner and a kid, but as he told me: "If i get pinged for something that will result in me losing my license, I'm better off trying to get away - what's the worst that will happen? I've already lost my license and probably my car, but if I do a runner the odds are good i'll get away scott free".

If jail was a probability even more people would do a runner. It all comes down to the blunt stick mentality of "tougher sentences = better behaviour". Tough sentences only impress people who don't break the law.

[Expert]

Did the lowered mercedes face past the lollipops???

No! That's what's even worse! He pulled off and half the cops chased him down a side road and then the cops that were either lost or were trying to head him off zoomed past the lollipops! and they were fucking flying! Not even chasing anyone!
Totally, utterly wrong.

[hayd3n]

if it was jail time, even more people would run. In my opinion, the main reason people run from cops is because of the high penalties (loss of license, big fines, confiscation etc). I know a guy who is a bit of a boy racer. He's generally a normal, main stream guy with a good job, a home, a partner and a kid, but as he told me: "If i get pinged for something that will result in me losing my license, I'm better off trying to get away - what's the worst that will happen? I've already lost my license and probably my car, but if I do a runner the odds are good i'll get away scott free".

If jail was a probability even more people would do a runner. It all comes down to the blunt stick mentality of "tougher sentences = better behaviour". Tough sentences only impress people who don't break the law.

i beleive what he was implying was that if you get caught doing a runner you should get jail!!!

[shrub]

i beleive what he was implying was that if you get caught doing a runner you should get jail!!!

Ah, OK. No, not a good move. It would mean backing off and giving in would NOT be an option so you'd see people doing even stupider shit. Think about it, if you get caught you go to jail, so you'll do whatever you can to avoid being caught, and if that means running red lights etc, hey the risk will seem worth it if you can lose the cop.

[hayd3n]

Ah, OK. No, not a good move. It would mean backing off and giving in would NOT be an option so you'd see people doing even stupider shit. Think about it, if you get caught you go to jail, so you'll do whatever you can to avoid being caught, and if that means running red lights etc, hey the risk will seem worth it if you can lose the cop.

NO!!!!!!!
just pull over and take the fine / loss of licence
why run when you could risk jail time?
do the crime do the time
it aint worth the risk

[scumdog]

I know a guy who is a bit of a boy racer. He's generally a normal, main stream guy with a good job, a home, a partner and a kid, but as he told me: "If i get pinged for something that will result in me losing my license, I'm better off trying to get away - what's the worst that will happen? I've already lost my license and probably my car, but if I do a runner the odds are good i'll get away scott free"..

But if the odds are bad he'll end up dead - or worse, get somebody else killed - like his own partner and kid.

Tell him not to do dumb-fuck shit that will get him 'pinged', especially if it's like the penalty for doing 62 kph is what he is running from..



I bet that post by shrub is a troll, it has to be - surely NOBODY is as as dumb a fucking drongo as this supposed 'generally normal, main-stream guy with a good job, a partner and a kid'

[hayd3n]

But if the odds are bad he'll end up dead - or worse, get somebody else killed - like his own partner and kid.

Tell him not to do dumb-fuck shit that will get him 'pinged', especially if it's like the penalty for doing 62 kph is what he is running from..



I bet that post by shrub is a troll, it has to be - surely NOBODY is as as dumb a fucking drongo as this supposed 'generally normal, main-stream guy with a good job, a partner and a kid'

yup a troll
ZP7MyQbYPUA

[saxet]

I bet that post by shrub is a troll, it has to be - surely NOBODY is as as dumb a fucking drongo as this supposed 'generally normal, main-stream guy with a good job, a partner and a kid'[/QUOTE]

I was under the impression you spend alot of the day dealing with people like this.

[James Deuce]

My recent experiences with them would suggest that your interaction with the Police is dictated entirely by individual personalities and situations.

I got a my first ticket ever recently for failing to give way to cop on a roundabout. The cop didn't indicate, but did me anyway, because her senior sergeant was in the car.

28 years driving & riding, no tickets, no warnings and it's meaningless in the courts because a lying cop's word is worth more than mine. My beef is with her though, not the entire Police force. I took a great deal of satisfaction in making her stand in the rain with no coat while I lectured her about public responsibility vs. self interest.

I was very annoyed though, and I have to say that I am now less likely to go out of my way to do anything for the Police as a result.

I recently had a run in with a checkpoint set up on SH2. They put it 100m down the road from a blind corner and were horribly put out when I dodged through the cones to avoid being rear ended by the guy behind me who locked up and slid sideways at me while I slowed just past said blind corner.

Half a dozen cops descended on me like rabid dogs and my explanation was barely accepted. Obviously members of the public are all dishonest drink-driving scumbags to be treated with suspicion, but no way am I going to sit in one place and let my fabulous little Ka with it's awesome stereo (with all the major components in its truncated boot) get rear-ended because some cops thought that putting a checkpoint in a dangerous location on a 100kph section of SH2 that gets traversed by people in commuter autopilot was a great idea. Pointing at the sideways car and the tyre smoke and listening to all the squealing tyres was barely enough of a hint for them.

I gave my name as "Prince Humperdinck the Unimpressed" and when asked where I worked I told them I "worked for the Sicilian" and I was "on my way to storm the castle". That didn't go so well, so I gave my name as Nicko McBrain. That seemed to work as I think the cop administering the breathalyzer was unique in that he was a Maiden fan AND had a sense of humour. Probably not a local.

My point is that they're human, and they feel beleaguered at present and some of the blame rests squarely with them but a lot of it lies with a public persona that they foolishly trust the media to portray. Then one cop in 20 does something utterly brain-dead and we're shallow enough to think that they're all like that.

[Taz]

I was under the impression you spend alot of the day dealing with people like this.

That would make this guy mainstream then Scummy

[sinned]

I bet that post by shrub is a troll, it has to be - surely NOBODY is as as dumb a fucking drongo as this supposed 'generally normal, main-stream guy with a good job, a partner and a kid'
I thought the definition of a drongo was a "normal, main-stream guy with a good job, a partner and a kid" and KB is drongo troll land.

[Madness]

Then one cop in 20 does something utterly brain-dead and we're shallow enough to think that they're all like that.

Perhaps there's part of the problem right there - is it really just the one in 20 that's damaging the N.Z public's perception with their police force?. I think not.

I think a lot can be said too about the negative impact that can often be seen resulting from senior officers trying to "set an example" for junior officers, particularly when dealing with minor traffic infringements.

[shrub]

But if the odds are bad he'll end up dead - or worse, get somebody else killed - like his own partner and kid.

Tell him not to do dumb-fuck shit that will get him 'pinged', especially if it's like the penalty for doing 62 kph is what he is running from..



I bet that post by shrub is a troll, it has to be - surely NOBODY is as as dumb a fucking drongo as this supposed 'generally normal, main-stream guy with a good job, a partner and a kid'

I don't tell him to do anything beyond mirror my behaviour and obey every one of Her Majesty's laws to the letter and submit to her noble and fair servants.

No, it's not a troll. I'm simply identifying that seemingly ordinary people can be the evil fools that run away from our constabulary, and that they're not the P addicted, drunken, unemployed, sex crazed maniacs our fine media portray them as.

[miloking]

I've done some stupid things in my life,felt i've come close to death a number of times, but earlier in the week i almost got hit by a copper in a police pursuit ......


I had little love for the cops before but that's gone now, disgusted.


Thats what i've been saying here for last year and everybody just thinks i have some unjustified grudge against police....glad that NZ public is actualy waking up a little because thats the only way we can change something, just a shame its only at the rate of one endangered life at the time
NZ police needs to get their shit together and asap...especialy in regards of the pursuits (and yes they are pursuits not a "failed to stop" as some senior police officials are trying to label it as to avoid police having any responsibility)

[Rych]

Thats what i've been saying here for last year and everybody just thinks i have some unjustified grudge against police....glad that NZ public is actualy waking up a little because thats the only way we can change something, just a shame its only at the rate of one endangered life at the time
NZ police needs to get their shit together and asap...especialy in regards of the pursuits (and yes they are pursuits not a "failed to stop" as some senior police officials are trying to label it as to avoid police having any responsibility)
The driver fails to stop causing the police to pursue it. The crime is being commited by the dumb ass who decides "I don't want to stop".

Whether the police should continue to pursue the fleeing driver is another issue and depends on the circumstances.

[DMNTD]

The driver fails to stop causing the police to pursue it. The crime is being committed by the dumb ass who decides "I don't want to stop".

Whether the police should continue to pursue the fleeing driver is another issue and depends on the circumstances.

Idiot driver/rider chooses to do the runner, check.
Police Officers choose to chase said idiot, check.
Police Officers choose to drive in a manner that potentially could harm themselves/public, FAIL.

The Police are supposed to be the smart ones in the equation and in my opinion ought to know when things are too dicey to continue the pursuit.

[wysper]

The police are in a lose - lose situation here.

Especially as views from either side will always be different.

Person runs from minor crime.
People say don't persue its minor crime.

what about the victim of that minor crime?
They will want the bastard caught.

Later on in the evening same person gets pissed and wipes out another driver. Possibly a motorcyclist.

It comes out that earlier in the evening he was in the polices line of sight.

Now general public is baying for police blood because they didnt stop said driver.


Rewind to inital chase

Police continue persuit, someone is hurt in chase, doesnt matter if it is driver or cops fault.
Public bay for police blood.

Another option

Police persue in first instance, safely bring pursuit to a close, arrest said offender.
Public are none the wiser and dont care.

I am not a police apologist, but can see they can't win. What ever choice they make, someone will complain that it was the wrong one. I, for one, would rather have the Police there, than not have them there.

[munster]

I support Police chases, bastards who run are at fault. Police are just doing there job. But when I see this sort of stuff http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4266201/Shamed-cop-given-plum-London-job in the papers with seeming regularity, a little bit more of my faith with & respect for NZ Police gets whittled away.

It's not the fact that there's a few bad apples, there's some in every barrel.

But we usually sort them and throw the bad ones out. In the Police, they get promoted.

[NUTBAR]

Idiot driver/rider chooses to do the runner, check.
Police Officers choose to chase said idiot, check.
Police Officers choose to drive in a manner that potentially could harm themselves/public, FAIL.

The Police are supposed to be the smart ones in the equation and in my opinion ought to know when things are too dicey to continue the pursuit.


the police here get all hyped up with the chases, i think the whole point of this thread was the fact that the police were driving in a recless manner passed a school with a school crossing patrol out! with i belive no suspect in front of them? so there for no reason for there carless use of a motor vehicle. or exsesive speed passed a school! :oi-grr:

[schrodingers cat]

I had little love for the cops before but that's gone now, disgusted.


If I put green tinted glasses on the world looks green.
It I look through red tinted plastic the world looks red.

Thanks for the clue as to how you look at the world

What a boring, done to death thread. Please try harder.

[Expert]

If I put green tinted glasses on the world looks green.
It I look through red tinted plastic the world looks red.

Thanks for the clue as to how you look at the world

What a boring, done to death thread. Please try harder.

But you still feel the need to post your condescending, irrelevent comments?

[munster]

What a boring, done to death thread. Please try harder.

It maybe boring to some. It may have been done to death a thousand times before, but guess what. We are the customers, we are the taxpayers, our voice, our opinion is supposed to count & maybe even matter to some people.

The Police HQ sit there and wonder why people are losing respect for them.

You don't have to look far to see why.

[Usarka]

I'm sure the police are highly trained and practiced in driving skills, not just some silly one-day course every two years.

I hear a rumour they are entering some drivers in Bathurst next year.

[Scuba_Steve]

Police chases are never gonna please everyone, usually if someone's running is for more than the current offense the disco started for, tho they could also be thrill seekers. So while I think most of them can't be avoided if the person is known just let 'em go & catch up with them later, also training wouldn't go amiss I could out drive most cops after a bottle of vodka, so if they're going to proceed with dangerous driving they should first be taught how to drive.

[MSTRS]

... bad apple... In the Police, they get promoted.
Assistant Commissioner is a well sought- after job...


I hear a rumour they are entering some drivers in Bathurst next year.

They will be in their element then. Doing the following...

[Tink]

I am guessing police don't give a shit what Joe Public thinks, but they do give a shit about the public, (most I would imagine)... I would not like to be facing a criminal every day of my life.

Someone has to do the job, I would like to see those that complain give it a go... !:yes:

[rastuscat]

http://www.ipca.govt.nz/tools/email.aspx?SECT=complaints

Do something about it. Don't make the complaint emotional or personal, stick to the facts.

Even if nothing comes of it, the cop involved will have cause to think that people are watching.

[schrodingers cat]

But you still feel the need to post your condescending, irrelevent comments?

Terribly sorry. I've changed my mind. I totally agree with you. You're right. You should be in charge. I'll keep my opinions to myself since you have sufficient. My bad for misunderstanding what a 'forum' is. Silly me. Its not my hooby horse to ride then. I'll be on my way.
Sorry.
Didn't mean to upset you. I see you feel strongly about this.I guess you'll be taking action then. From your couch? Yes. Best place to stamp your foot.
Awfully dangerous out there in the world not being able to distinguish police and criminals (that should be criminals and criminals shouldn't it?) But you see I do understand. We pay for one group and we pay for the other group. No difference really. I'd never let my daughter date a cop. Would you?
Oh yes, you're right again. I was just leaving.
Sorry.
Bye.

[Scuba_Steve]

http://www.ipca.govt.nz/tools/email.aspx?SECT=complaints

Do something about it. Don't make the complaint emotional or personal, stick to the facts.

Even if nothing comes of it, the cop involved will have cause to think that people are watching.

problem is most complaints don't leave the 1st stage as the IPCC is about as independent as sprite is to coca-cola so the cop doesn't even know he was complained about.

[Patrick]

I've done some stupid things in my life,felt i've come close to death a number of times, but earlier in the week i almost got hit by a copper in a police pursuit and i shit my pants (nearly).
I was in st helliers and the cops were chasing a guy in a lowered mercedes.
I don't care what this guy had done, nothing justified the reckless driving by the popo trying to stop him. They had a helicopter out, all they had to do was sit and wait.
Their reckless disregard for public safety was astonishing, it was the worst driving i have ever seen by anyone, ever, in the world.
I don't think i'm being sensationalist when i say i was suprised i didn't see dead people that day.
i can see how innocent people get killed by the cops, or the bloke getting chased by the cops.
i don't know what the answer is to the chase or not to chase question, but nothing in my mind justified what i saw, right past a school, those lollipop girls out practising their crossing procedure with the swinging lollipop things. frightening.

I had little love for the cops before but that's gone now, disgusted.


.

If, and I mean a big IF, it was as bad as you claim, make a complaint. If the helecopter was involved, it is all recorded from the air. Cops doing stupid shite will be on tape. The film footage compared to the radio transmissions could be interesting - especially if they aren't mentioning the obvious, such as school crossings, kids about, etc.....


..... My beef is with her though, not the entire Police force.

........ I have to say that I am now less likely to go out of my way to do anything for the Police as a result.

So which way is it then? A beef with the one, or a hate on for all....????

Followed up by this.....

Then one cop in 20 does something utterly brain-dead and we're shallow enough to think that they're all like that.

Confused now....

And as for the checkpoint, complain. Do nothing, get nothing.


....(and yes they are pursuits not a "failed to stop" as some senior police officials are trying to label it as to avoid police having any responsibility)

Nope. "Fleeing Driver" is what they are, and is what they are now called...


Idiot driver/rider chooses to do the runner, check.
Police Officers choose to chase said idiot, check.
Police Officers choose to drive in a manner that potentially could harm themselves/public, FAIL.

The Police are supposed to be the smart ones in the equation and in my opinion ought to know when things are too dicey to continue the pursuit.


Yep. And that is one of the reasons why they abandon them....


The police are in a lose - lose situation here.

Especially as views from either side will always be different.

Person runs from minor crime.
People say don't persue its minor crime.

what about the victim of that minor crime?
They will want the bastard caught.

Later on in the evening same person gets pissed and wipes out another driver. Possibly a motorcyclist.

It comes out that earlier in the evening he was in the polices line of sight.

Now general public is baying for police blood because they didnt stop said driver.


Rewind to inital chase

Police continue persuit, someone is hurt in chase, doesnt matter if it is driver or cops fault.
Public bay for police blood.

Another option

Police persue in first instance, safely bring pursuit to a close, arrest said offender.
Public are none the wiser and dont care.

I am not a police apologist, but can see they can't win. What ever choice they make, someone will complain that it was the wrong one. I, for one, would rather have the Police there, than not have them there.

Summed up well. Thats it - in a nut shell....


It maybe boring to some. It may have been done to death a thousand times before, but guess what. We are the customers, we are the taxpayers, our voice, our opinion is supposed to count & maybe even matter to some people.

The Police HQ sit there and wonder why people are losing respect for them.

You don't have to look far to see why.

You forgot to add "We pay their wages...."

People lose the respect because they don't like to be told "You can't do that..." It all begins in the homes where parents can't control their kids, then the schools, where teachers can't control them, to when they grow up into out of control kids with piss poor attitudes and no one can cotrol them because they have "rights."

And some of them join the Police.....


... if the person is known just let 'em go & catch up with them later....

It is how it is.... another reason why they are abandoned - or never get off the ground in the first place....


http://www.ipca.govt.nz/tools/email.aspx?SECT=complaints

Do something about it. Don't make the complaint emotional or personal, stick to the facts.

Even if nothing comes of it, the cop involved will have cause to think that people are watching.

Exactly.....


problem is most complaints don't leave the 1st stage as the IPCC is about as independent as sprite is to coca-cola so the cop doesn't even know he was complained about.

Funny. What bullshit.

Having seen PCA's in action, and up close, no one is more scrutinised than the cop on the receiving end....... Crims have more rights.

[DMNTD]

the police here get all hyped up with the chases, i think the whole point of this thread was the fact that the police were driving in a recless manner passed a school with a school crossing patrol out! with i belive no suspect in front of them? so there for no reason for there carless use of a motor vehicle. or exsesive speed passed a school! :oi-grr:

Indeed, you freaking nut bar :yes:
Was my point too. The Police are/should be smart enough to know when they too are just adding to the potential of 'damage'.

[James Deuce]

Patrick, I'm simply reporting my experiences and reactions. I'm not asking you to validate them.

You're confused that I can see both sides of the coin and that I'm annoyed at getting pinged for something I didn't do?

The world isn't black and white.

Can I add a bit to the story? After my accident in January the cop who attended was fabulous BUT he consistently ranted at my wife that there was no way a bike would slide 85 metres if I wasn't speeding. Now my wife was not is a good state. She'd had a nasty phone call from me, her family were initially refusing to help so she couldn't get to me and the cop wouldn't shut up about charging me with something, completely ignoring the fact that I'd been nailed by some farmer's wandering stock and someone had removed the ear tag from the animal and left me unattended and unconscious on the side of the road.

The SCU ripped him a new one and estimated that my maximum speed at the time of impact was 75km/hr and more likely 55-65km/hr given that part of the trip my bike took was down a short but steep gradient at the start of a driveway. This was on an open road. The SCU cop who ran my investigation also looked after Hitcher's incident and could not have been more of a gentleman.

I don't know how to rationalise the dichotomy where on the one hand they're marvellous at the scene and get you sorted quickly and are genuinely concerned but with in seconds of the helicopter taking off my wife is being told that I'm facing a prolonged loss of licence and a possible jail term for excessive speed. Surely that could have been left until there were some actual facts to hand?

As I said though my experience of cops is entirely moderated by circumstance. I do not feel well disposed toward the constabulary in general due to repeated instances this year where I've been dealt to, fairly or unfairly, but unlike some of the rabid haters I am not predisposed to hating ALL dirty, stinking, filthy, coppers, because SOME lie and some are sadists.

I am happy to give the Police some leeway for being human. How about you do the same for me?

[Dave-]

They had a helicopter out, all they had to do was sit and wait.

for what? the merc to go plowing into you? or a child?

the police are trained to drive and chase at speed, their risk assesment and judgement is several orders of magnitude greater than yours.

now that is sensationalist.

[Squiggles]

problem is most complaints don't leave the 1st stage as the IPCC is about as independent as sprite is to coca-cola so the cop doesn't even know he was complained about.

:facepalm:
</10characters>

[Scuba_Steve]

Funny. What bullshit.
Having seen PCA's in action, and up close, no one is more scrutinised than the cop on the receiving end....... Crims have more rights.


:facepalm:
</10characters>

have you people used the service? By all means it is ALOT better than trying to complain about a judge they're protected better than the priests molesting little boys. But I've only ever had 1 of all my valid complaints make it past the IPCC 1st stage, and it was probably the most minor of all complaints in-fact I think it would be the only one where there was no legal ramifications for the officer involved.

[Swoop]

the police are trained to drive and chase at speed, their risk assesment and judgement is several orders of magnitude greater than yours.
:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme :killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme :killingme:killingme

They are nothing more than "human".

[tri boy]

If a repected judge can wipe his arse with NZ law, and get a damn near $mil payout, then the rozza's can do what they please also.
Do as we say, not do as we do.

[Expert]

for what? the merc to go plowing into you? or a child?

the police are trained to drive and chase at speed, their risk assesment and judgement is several orders of magnitude greater than yours.

now that is sensationalist.

Because that wouldn't happen if they werent being chased?

[Expert]

Terribly sorry. I've changed my mind. I totally agree with you. You're right. You should be in charge. I'll keep my opinions to myself since you have sufficient. My bad for misunderstanding what a 'forum' is. Silly me. Its not my hooby horse to ride then. I'll be on my way.
Sorry.
Didn't mean to upset you. I see you feel strongly about this.I guess you'll be taking action then. From your couch? Yes. Best place to stamp your foot.
Awfully dangerous out there in the world not being able to distinguish police and criminals (that should be criminals and criminals shouldn't it?) But you see I do understand. We pay for one group and we pay for the other group. No difference really. I'd never let my daughter date a cop. Would you?
Oh yes, you're right again. I was just leaving.
Sorry.
Bye.

Thank fuck, stay gone you twat.

[schrodingers cat]

Thank fuck, stay gone you twat.

The difference is - I knew I was being a twat...

[miloking]

for what? the merc to go plowing into you? or a child?

the police are trained to drive and chase at speed, their risk assesment and judgement is several orders of magnitude greater than yours.

now that is sensationalist.

Ohh thats right because our superman cops are able to stop 2 ton holden on a dime when little girl jumps in front of it.....must be some awesome training they go thru then, power of judgement as you say i reckon...

[Dave-]

Because that wouldn't happen if they werent being chased?

clearly it didnt, it's an exponentially smaller chance of happening if a police officer is in chase.

the risk outweighs the benefit.


Ohh thats right because our superman cops are able to stop 2 ton holden on a dime when little girl jumps in front of it.....must be some awesome training they go thru then, power of judgement as you say i reckon...

they dont have to be super human, just more intelligent than you apparently.

[NUTBAR]

Indeed, you freaking nut bar :yes:
Was my point too. The Police are/should be smart enough to know when they too are just adding to the potential of 'damage'.

yes thought it was, just some other people seem to loose the point of the thread rather quick,:scratch:

[Blackshear]

Almost been collected thrice by an ambulance on MY side of the road/blind intersection/blind crest. Ironic. All three oncoming, all three requiring incredibly evasive action - one so bad, it required mounting the gutter. In all three instances, were I in a car, I can assure you there would have been a crash.

Been a mere finger length from death by a policeman on the motorway - he literally split between me and the motorist on my left with at LEAST 40km/h difference, I couldn't believe my eyes. I agree we both should have been a little more aware, but were that me, I would probably be in jail for reckless driving and pretty poor to boot.

Nothing on firetrucks yet, though I suppose something with such length and girth would all but tear me asunder.

[Patrick]

Patrick, I'm simply reporting my experiences and reactions. I'm not asking you to validate them.

I wasn't.... just putting in some balance....

You're confused that I can see both sides of the coin and that I'm annoyed at getting pinged for something I didn't do?

Pinged? By who? Not me.....

The world isn't black and white.

Can I add a bit to the story? After my accident in January the cop who attended was fabulous BUT he consistently ranted at my wife that there was no way a bike would slide 85 metres if I wasn't speeding.

Some things are best left unsaid... especially when one does not fully know what they are talking about.... As you report later, the SCU calculated your speed. They have knowledge and physics to back up what they say.....

Now my wife was not is a good state. She'd had a nasty phone call from me, her family were initially refusing to help so she couldn't get to me and the cop wouldn't shut up about charging me with something, completely ignoring the fact that I'd been nailed by some farmer's wandering stock and someone had removed the ear tag from the animal and left me unattended and unconscious on the side of the road.

The SCU ripped him a new one and estimated that my maximum speed at the time of impact was 75km/hr and more likely 55-65km/hr given that part of the trip my bike took was down a short but steep gradient at the start of a driveway. This was on an open road. The SCU cop who ran my investigation also looked after Hitcher's incident and could not have been more of a gentleman.

I don't know how to rationalise the dichotomy where on the one hand they're marvellous at the scene and get you sorted quickly and are genuinely concerned but with in seconds of the helicopter taking off my wife is being told that I'm facing a prolonged loss of licence and a possible jail term for excessive speed. Surely that could have been left until there were some actual facts to hand?

Because they are concerned, perhaps? Then there are the possibilities of what happened and why... and ther results of that, at a later hearing... sometimes?

As I said though my experience of cops is entirely moderated by circumstance. I do not feel well disposed toward the constabulary in general due to repeated instances this year where I've been dealt to, fairly or unfairly, but unlike some of the rabid haters I am not predisposed to hating ALL dirty, stinking, filthy, coppers, because SOME lie and some are sadists.

I am happy to give the Police some leeway for being human. How about you do the same for me?

As I said before.... I honestly have no idea why you think I was attacking anything you said.

To recap, you said it was a one hate thing for one cop only, then a sentence or two later, its all of em.... Confused, was all....... Still am......

Take a breath, re-read what I said, in reply to what you said....


have you people used the service? By all means it is ALOT better than trying to complain about a judge they're protected better than the priests molesting little boys. But I've only ever had 1 of all my valid complaints make it past the IPCC 1st stage, and it was probably the most minor of all complaints in-fact I think it would be the only one where there was no legal ramifications for the officer involved.

Seen it in action, up close and all....

Seen "complaints" against cops for busting a jean belt hoop of a struggling prisoner who refused to remove his belt... seen "complaints" against a cop who prevented a prisoner from receiving drugs, forcibly taking them off him, and he claims assault after having a go at the copper first; seen "complaints" about tickets being issued because they didn't think they should get them; seen complaints against cops who win the fight after the first punches are thrown by the offender - and they lost the fight - so they "complain" to the PCA.... the list goes on....


Almost been collected thrice by an ambulance on MY side of the road/blind intersection/blind crest. Ironic. All three oncoming, all three requiring incredibly evasive action - one so bad, it required mounting the gutter. In all three instances, were I in a car, I can assure you there would have been a crash.

Been a mere finger length from death by a policeman on the motorway - he literally split between me and the motorist on my left with at LEAST 40km/h difference, I couldn't believe my eyes. I agree we both should have been a little more aware, but were that me, I would probably be in jail for reckless driving and pretty poor to boot.

Nothing on firetrucks yet, though I suppose something with such length and girth would all but tear me asunder.

Had a firetruck take a massively wide birth at speed rounding a sharp 90 degree corner, completely onto my side of the road, as I approached a right turning lane at lights at this T instersection.

I could hear the thing coming, but didn't know where from, so was aware.... on seeing it heading straight for me, being alert and all, I dived for the curb and it missed ..... And the driver was my now former brother in law.... We had words over coffee later that night....:sunny:

Them blardy dodgy Ambo and Firey Drivers, they all drive like crap....:innocent:

[scumdog]

the police here get all hyped up with the chases, i think the whole point of this thread was the fact that the police were driving in a recless manner passed a school with a school crossing patrol out! with i belive no suspect in front of them? so there for no reason for there carless use of a motor vehicle. or exsesive speed passed a school! :oi-grr:

So what has been the result of your official complaint on the matter??

[Usarka]

Reply below.

It is our reluctant ruling that the complaint be upheld. The public are starting to become aware of two trends. i) Pursuits supposedly being called off moments the fleeing vehicle crashes, and ii) the act of the pursuit sometimes increases the net danger to the public. It is hereby determined that any officer seeking to embark on a pursuit must first herewith engage in a regulation serving of doughnut, and then engage pursuit if still judged to be of best interest to the public.

[Edbear]

Police chases are never gonna please everyone, usually if someone's running is for more than the current offense the disco started for, tho they could also be thrill seekers. So while I think most of them can't be avoided if the person is known just let 'em go & catch up with them later, also training wouldn't go amiss I could out drive most cops after a bottle of vodka, so if they're going to proceed with dangerous driving they should first be taught how to drive.

Oh, I'm sure we all could, mate.:yes: How about a wee challenge to prove it...? :innocent:


I am guessing police don't give a shit what Joe Public thinks, but they do give a shit about the public, (most I would imagine)... I would not like to be facing a criminal every day of my life.

Someone has to do the job, I would like to see those that complain give it a go... !:yes:

Interesting to see just how many who ARE doing the job, complain about it, eh? Intersting too, that the most vocal seem to be those who have found themselves on the wrong side of the law.

How on Earth did I reach my age after 40 years of driving/riding, being generally law-abiding, but having seen speeds exceeding twice the legal limit at times, with only two minor speeding tickets, one minor parking ticket and one recent crash at about 45km/h that the Police investigated and concluded was not my fault?

In 40 years in the road, I've never had cause to argue with a cop, or ever been treated unfairly or disrespectfully by a cop. I was disappointed at my last speeding ticket for 112km/h after he accepted my explanation and booked me anyway, but the fact was that I was exceeding the limit and should have been aware of my speed. Fair cop and made me more careful from then on.

As the cops on here keep saying, if you have a genuine complaint that should be addressed, do something about it. Maybe a few of us could look at ourselves a bit more...

[Scuba_Steve]

Oh, I'm sure we all could, mate.:yes: How about a wee challenge to prove it...? :innocent:


I'd be keen on that, but before hand I would want in writing a legal agreement to immunity for the event... Not that I don't trust the police or anything :innocent:

Oh and it would have to be vodka, 2 beers (disgusting piss water that is) or a bottle of wine & I couldn't drive myself outta my property :laugh:

[Edbear]

I'd be keen on that, but before hand I would want in writing a legal agreement to immunity for the event... Not that I don't trust the police or anything :innocent:

Oh and it would have to be vodka, 2 beers (disgusting piss water that is) or a bottle of wine & I couldn't drive myself outta my property :laugh:

I reckon it could be something Close Up or some such program would be interested in doing considering the publicity about Police chases... :yes:

[Tink]

Interesting to see just how many who ARE doing the job, complain about it, eh? Intersting too, that the most vocal seem to be those who have found themselves on the wrong side of the law.

How on Earth did I reach my age after 40 years of driving/riding, being generally law-abiding, but having seen speeds exceeding twice the legal limit at times, with only two minor speeding tickets, one minor parking ticket and one recent crash at about 45km/h that the Police investigated and concluded was not my fault?

In 40 years in the road, I've never had cause to argue with a cop, or ever been treated unfairly or disrespectfully by a cop. I was disappointed at my last speeding ticket for 112km/h after he accepted my explanation and booked me anyway, but the fact was that I was exceeding the limit and should have been aware of my speed. Fair cop and made me more careful from then on.

As the cops on here keep saying, if you have a genuine complaint that should be addressed, do something about it. Maybe a few of us could look at ourselves a bit more...

I agree to that first paragraph, I have had some speeding tickets 2 outside highschools, my fault for doing 54km... but in saying that, I have kids that just cross the road without looking, I have slowed down outside schools, but I still get angry at teenagers that think pedestrian crossings are free for all pavements...

As for 40 years on the road.... experience is the necessary.... if your under 30 think again when your on the road, if your under 40 remember what you did wrong at under 30... if your under 50.... slow down ... we seem to think we between 40 & 50 are smart... (not everyone)... and under 60... aw you guys rock, and know who you are ... hopefully your memories have not slipped, and you teach your teenagers well.

And as I slowly slip into the "finally its the long weekend over,"... if I gave you a thumbs up on your bike today in Franklin.... I was jealous!!!! :violin:

[Kendog]

I don't think i'm being sensationalist when i say i was suprised i didn't see dead people that day.
Yes you are.

[carver]

Im watching you cunts

[schrodingers cat]

I reckon it could be something Close Up or some such program would be interested in doing considering the publicity about Police chases... :yes:

For sure. Cause that is the right forum for reasoned intelligent debate...

[Edbear]

I agree to that first paragraph, I have had some speeding tickets 2 outside highschools, my fault for doing 54km... but in saying that, I have kids that just cross the road without looking, I have slowed down outside schools, but I still get angry at teenagers that think pedestrian crossings are free for all pavements...

As for 40 years on the road.... experience is the necessary.... if your under 30 think again when your on the road, if your under 40 remember what you did wrong at under 30... if your under 50.... slow down ... we seem to think we between 40 & 50 are smart... (not everyone)... and under 60... aw you guys rock, and know who you are ... hopefully your memories have not slipped, and you teach your teenagers well.

And as I slowly slip into the "finally its the long weekend over,"... if I gave you a thumbs up on your bike today in Franklin.... I was jealous!!!! :violin:

Awww, shucks! Thanks whoever you are, and whatever this was about...

[Edbear]

For sure. Cause that is the right forum for reasoned intelligent debate...

ROFL!!! I'd give it a go!

[Tink]

Awww, shucks! Thanks whoever you are, and whatever this was about...

lol it was a random open comment the last sentence... haha

[Patrick]

......I could out drive most cops after a bottle of vodka, ....

ROFL...

I think you mean you could out type.... you keyboard warrior, you....

[Scuba_Steve]

ROFL...

I think you mean you could out type.... you keyboard warrior, you....

No they could definitely out type me, I meant what I said.
Given the opportunity I'd be willing to prove it too, but unlike "speed" which is a complete & utter scam, "drink driving" is an actual danger to everyone so I'm not willing to just go out & do it. It would have to be setup with full legal agreement to drink driving immunity for the event & preferably a cop from each grade Bronze, Silver & Gold.

[Patrick]

Bronze can't chase - office dwellers who don't get out often. Silvers can, until a goldie comes along.

Some are fairly average. Some are good. Some are outstanding and could outdrive you after a bottle of vodka. Some even have racing/rallying experience...

[Banditbandit]

for what? the merc to go plowing into you? or a child?

the police are trained to drive and chase at speed, their risk assesment and judgement is several orders of magnitude greater than yours.

now that is sensationalist.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

They have to run special classes to teach police recruits to read and write ... do you really think that their "risk assessment and judgement" is several orders higher than the average boy racer ?

[Edbear]

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

They have to run special classes to teach police recruits to read and write ... do you really think that their "risk assessment and judgement" is several orders higher than the average boy racer ?

I think the boy racer analogy isn't the best. Boy racer's aren't exactly the sharpest of tools... They sit at the bottom of the pile for brains and commonsense. Even Mrs. Asian driving her kids to school in the SUV is an order or two above these idiots...

[scumdog]

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

They have to run special classes to teach police recruits to read and write ...

How many have to do that?

And are they NZ born recruits?

Most interested because I've never heard of it.


(Maybe it would be best to leave them furrin recruits to sink or swim re reading and writing? - a shit load of NZers are having to do just that so why should Police recruits be treated any different?)

[Toaster]

I had little love for the cops before but that's gone now, disgusted.


.

Remember to tell them that when you need them after a burglary or when you get robbed or whatever. Their job is a tough one and you were not privvy to the facts of the pursuit. Yes they are human and they make mistakes just like you.

[Toaster]

How many have to do that?

And are they NZ born recruits?

Most interested because I've never heard of it.


(Maybe it would be best to leave them furrin recruits to sink or swim re reading and writing? - a shit load of NZers are having to do just that so why should Police recruits be treated any different?)

I recall how a huge percentage of the public couldn't actually write a statement properly but could merely print. On average they had grammar and spelling skills that left much to be desired. GIven that police recruits are drawn from NZ society, it would be no surprise that their language and written skills would fall below par.

[Toaster]

ROFL...

I think you mean you could out type.... you keyboard warrior, you....

Keyboard muppet more like.

[Scuba_Steve]

Bronze can't chase - office dwellers who don't get out often. Silvers can, until a goldie comes along.

Some are fairly average. Some are good. Some are outstanding and could outdrive you after a bottle of vodka. Some even have racing/rallying experience...

some might be able to (but remember racing/rally is much more "controlled" than road, I have some racing experience too), majority I say not. They are like the average public, A vehicle is there to get them from A to B thats it, no respect for it, no like for it, no interest in it, just a tool they use & see as a "necessity" in modern life...

[Banditbandit]

How many have to do that?

And are they NZ born recruits?

Most interested because I've never heard of it.


(Maybe it would be best to leave them furrin recruits to sink or swim re reading and writing? - a shit load of NZers are having to do just that so why should Police recruits be treated any different?)

OK . these two are pre-recruitment .. and include numeracy and literacy ...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/training-courses/news/article.cfm?c_id=349&objectid=10615375

http://www.boppoly.ac.nz/go/programmes/school-of-applied-technology/law-enforcement/certificate-in-preparation-for-law-enforcement-l3

This is an older one .. I remember when this all came out ... and one reason for the pre-recruitment courses such as the one listed above ...

http://policewatch-nz.blogspot.com/2007/06/police-recruit-standards-plummet.html

[saxet]

Yes you are.

I disagree, if you or I had done that the Police would be saying exactly that about us.

[HondaSTrider]

I could out drive most cops after a bottle of vodka

I reckon everybody could mate.... but how are we going to convince all them coppers to down a bottle each before we race 'em!? :drinkup: :blink: :drinkup:

Alternatively.... could you outdrive them if they were after a donut?? :facepalm: :innocent:

[beyond]

I don't tell him to do anything beyond mirror my behaviour and obey every one of Her Majesty's laws to the letter and submit to her noble and fair servants.

No, it's not a troll. I'm simply identifying that seemingly ordinary people can be the evil fools that run away from our constabulary, and that they're not the P addicted, drunken, unemployed, sex crazed maniacs our fine media portray them as.

Not many would like to hear it but what Shrub says is true of many motorists and motorcylists who are normally law abiding citizens with wife and kids and a good job. They've been shafted by the "law" maybe more than once and if they stand to lose their license or vehicle they will do a runner and do so regularly.

The bigger the stick is waved the more likely this is going to happen. When they dropped the loss of licence speed down to 40 over the limit you should have seen the threads on here on people that were not going to stop if they had a choice.

Sorry... that's human nature. Most people work too hard to lose something they took time and money to get... simple really.

Oh, this isn't a troll by the way but I'm sure they will be along soon.

[98tls]

Not many would like to hear it but what Shrub says is true of many motorists and motorcylists who are normally law abiding citizens with wife and kids and a good job. They've been shafted by the "law" maybe more than once and if they stand to lose their license or vehicle they will do a runner and do so regularly.

The bigger the stick is waved the more likely this is going to happen. When they dropped the loss of licence speed down to 40 over the limit you should have seen the threads on here on people that were not going to stop if they had a choice.

Sorry... that's human nature. Most people work too hard to lose something they took time and money to get... simple really.

Oh, this isn't a troll by the way but I'm sure they will be along soon.

Mate to be fair "threads on here" really isnt a fair way to gauge anything surely,opinions on here are as whimsical as the wind you should know that more than most,how many times have you kicked off a thread on nothing more than motorcycling as its enjoyed by many on any given day but suffered the wrath of many inclusive of some that own motorcycles that are of little use for anything but.

[beyond]

Mate to be fair "threads on here" really isnt a fair way to gauge anything surely,opinions on here are as whimsical as the wind you should know that more than most,how many times have you kicked off a thread on nothing more than motorcycling as its enjoyed by many on any given day but suffered the wrath of many inclusive of some that own motorcycles that are of little use for anything but.

LOL, many times mate :) BUT... I know many who have done a runner too, on and off Kiwibiker.... most would be suprised at how many have done so.... AND you'd never expect it from most of them either.

[NUTBAR]

So what has been the result of your official complaint on the matter??

well there begs the question, did he make a complaint?