Why does better suspension increase tyre life?

[Grasshopperus]

Hi guys,
I've read lots of posts about how well setup suspension can improve tire longevity, why is this?

If suspension is designed to maximize your tire's contact with the road then doesn't better suspension mean more contact and therefore wear? OK, I guess it has something to do with the rate or evenness of the contact but what exactly is it?

[bogan]

in some cases it'd stop the tyre losing grip and skidding (had it many times with my old shock, now not so much), but it probably stops as much carcass flex in the tyre as well or something more technical.

[Corse1]

Oh Grasshopperrus....

How thee will learneth on the great Kiwi Biker Forum......where to start :corn::corn:

Alas I am but an idiot so will follow your replies with the greatest enthusiasm.......:yes:

Wouldn't the tyre wear better if it tracked along a straight perfect concrete "no bumps" road for its entire life....oh yeah with no motor driving it.....


My two cents is that you have to have the suspension dialed in so the tyre is exposed to the minimum amount of pressure changes from riding / movement etc etc.


Different weight riders need ...oh fuck it...http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=motorcycle+suspension+setup&rlz=1R2ADSA_enNZ393&aq=2&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=motorcycle+sus&gs_rfai=

[Mishy]

Fair question, and I hope you will get some fair answers !

There is simply no doubt that tyre performance and suspension performance go hand in hand, and it's difficult to consider one without the other - just ask Dr Taylor.

Largely, the reason that tyre life increase's is due to "improved suspension" (or should I say corrected suspension) giving better, and more correct, control of the travel of the wheel, and load distribution of the motorcycle, and this leads to less force variation at the contact patch of the tyre, while not demanding that the tyre deal with an undesireable portion of the forces being passed through the whole system - and it is a dynamic system, with one element having an influence on the other.

Slippage of the tyre (and a lot can occur without you really knowing about it) causes considerable distress to the tyre, and the "ligh/heavy" cycle forced on the tyre by a badly adjusted damper can lead to a "grip/slip" behaviour that wears the tyre faster.

Excessive heat, and slippage are the largest, and most common enemy whe it comes to tyre durability, and a well set damper with correct spring rate will keep these to a minimum.

It also has to be said that something like a poorly set tyre pressure would potentially give the impression that the suspension was badly adjusted, so one can sometimes mask the other ( although in my opinion it's always the suspension tuners fault !)

That's a rough outline, and I hope it's food for thought.

[tigertim20]

a real asic answer for you.
set up suspension well, and the suspension will absorb bumps and shit in the road.
DONT set up suspension well, the TYRE absorbs all the crap. that means more friction, and more wear.

theres more to it than that, but you get the jist.

[Gremlin]

yeah, as tigertim says, basically, something has to do the work. If the suspension doesn't, then the tyre does.

[Owl]

Seems to be plenty of good answers there Grasshopperus.

After getting Dr Taylor to re-valve/re-spring my S3, I'm the recipient of better tyre life. I consider it a bonus really, as better handling, control and comfort was what I was after.

I found improvement not only in tyre life, but also the type of wear. I used to kill fronts with a serious flat spot on the right side and toss tyres with meat still in the center. Therefore I wasn't getting the most out of them and they weren't all that pleasant to ride on after only about 5000km. Now I find they wear evenly and are pleasant to use for their entire life, which has extended by 20%+

There's something to be said for better suspenders:yes:

[Grasshopperus]

DONT set up suspension well, the TYRE absorbs all the crap. that means more friction, and more wear.


Slippage of the tyre (and a lot can occur without you really knowing about it) causes considerable distress to the tyre, and the "ligh/heavy" cycle forced on the tyre by a badly adjusted damper can lead to a "grip/slip" behaviour that wears the tyre faster.




I found improvement not only in tyre life, but also the type of wear. I used to kill fronts with a serious flat spot on the right side and toss tyres with meat still in the center. Therefore I wasn't getting the most out of them and they weren't all that pleasant to ride on after only about 5000km. Now I find they wear evenly and are pleasant to use for their entire life, which has extended by 20%+


Thanks everyone. Those are all really good explanations. Cheers.

[Robert Taylor]

I really dont need to elaborate as Mishy and others that followed pretty much covered it. Add to it that we have a high percentage of bumpy roads that challenge the suspension and tyres more than in first world European and North American countries.

I have seen all too many ''claims'' on tyres and people getting niggly at tyre distributors when in fact most often the fault lies with the suspension. I hate to think how much the tyre companies have ''incorrectly'' paid out over the years.

[Mishy]

I hate to think how much the tyre companies have ''incorrectly'' paid out over the years.

Yes, we have to put it down to "goodwill" :violin:

You didn't bite after reading my thresd - odd really . . . . . . . . . :gob:

[Robert Taylor]

Yes, we have to put it down to "goodwill" :violin:

You didn't bite after reading my thresd - odd really . . . . . . . . . :gob:

That is because I largely agree with you Hamish!

I remember vividly an incident that occured when I co-owned a motorcycle shop. We had a customer deliver to us a rear wheel only for his VS1400 to have a new rear tyre fitted. We fitted a well known and respected brand of tyre in a touring spec and sent him on his way.
He was back approx 2000ks later with the bike and a shagged rear tyre, reading the riot act. It was real easy to suss out exactly why this had happened. The bike was fitted with some crummy old Koni shocks that were clearly too soft and well past their use by date. Even brand new these shocks are dire in performance and ride height control. In talking to the customer I established that he was spending nearly all the time riding two up ( wife on board ) with a fully loaded pack rack ( the very worst place to displace load ) So simulating the all up load ( and he was rather well fed ) the rear wheel was using up 75% of its travel statically. So the shocks were bottoming out constantly and overloading that tyre big time.

I explained to him that the really fast demise of the tyre was entirely down to the very worn state of the rear shocks and that the bike was bottoming out constantly. The bottoming out issue he agreed with but he steadfastly insisted that he wanted a new tyre completely foc and was prepared to make a lot of noise around our small town. Even though he was totally wrong and he would have been done like a dogs dinner in a small claims court. We spoke to the tyre supplier and were totally honest about the chain of events and our analysis of the cause. We were able to secure another tyre at a special price and the customer still totally refused to pay anything and Im going to tell anyone that will listen that ''youre a bunch of pricks''
The whole point is we knew we were totally correct but it would have done more damage holding fast than relenting and taking a loss to shut this guy up.
This sort of scenario us just plain wrong and the scary thing is there are more than a few people out there who are prepared to make noise to serve their own morally incorrect ends, but they know they can get away with it. Doubtless there are a good many dealers and wholesalers who can recite similiar stories of effectively being ripped off by less than scrupulous people.

[Gremlin]

On the flip side, my shop and I played a prank on the Pirelli Sales Rep (all in good fun).

They rang up to say they had a customer, his tyres had only lasted 3 weeks, and he'd stretched them out to that length as well. The poor rep was evidently so concerned, he said he would come and have a look, before even thinking about the single most obvious question.

Needless to say, when he did pop round to have a look at the old tyres (unfortunately I never knew when he did go, so never got to see his reaction) he asked the most obvious question... how many km did he do? When the shop casually replied about 6500km he relaxed. He did ask if I had stopped for anything though.

I never did get a free set of tyres for that evidently faulty set? :scratch:

[Mishy]

On the flip side, my shop and I played a prank on the Pirelli Sales Rep (all in good fun)

yeah, i've had a couple kinda like that as well !

Had a rear tyre sent to me, and was told the customer was unhappy with the lack of durability, and wanted to know what was causing it.
I looked and poked, and asked a bunch of questions, but couldn't see anything in the tyre that told me a story - it was just plain worn out, and faitly evenly too.

When I told the shop owner that, he just laughed and said he was just going to fit another one, and hope that it "did more" that the 20,000 km that this one did !

They like to have a bit of fun at our expense from time to time :)

[roogazza]

Also consider tyre pressures when evaluating wear rates. I often hear of what I consider low pressures for the road.
Just a few psi can make a big difference.

[Mishy]

Also consider tyre pressures when evaluating wear rates. I often hear of what I consider low pressures for the road.
Just a few psi can make a big difference.

Yep, that's massive for tyre life - 6psi can rob you of 20% of the life of the tyre, so running 36 when 42 is specified is throwing money away.