Thursday misadventure. How to win a week in hospital.

[terbang]

Or just another biker down thread...

Last Thurs, Daughter and I decided to take a ride over to Kaiaua for lunch. Twas a nice day and we took the 1100f for a run. Georgies boyfriend was to accompany us on his Yamaha 250 Zeal. Gassed up at Waiuku and planned on the Bombay Hunua route. All was going fine until we encountered an asian lady driving a 4WD. She was driving slowly and we followed her at a respectable distance on a twisty section. The old 1100f is in no way a sprot bike and with precious cargo on the back and boyfriend in tow, there was no need to get sporty. As we approached a long straight, the vehicle slowed and shifted to the left. This was a good spot to overtake, so I did so and as we accelerated through around 70K's, (witnessed by following boyfriend) she did a sudden and aggressive right turn in attempt to do a Uey toward a driveway on the right.

Out of the corner of my left eye, a dark shape rapidly emerges and basically the front right guard of the vehicle impacts the left side of my bike around the fuel tank area. I remember the impact on my left side, remember the moment my tyres succumbed and I lost control and remember hearing my helmet crunching its way down the road.

There is a blank period, I'm lying on my back with my head down hill in a drain. The bike is pinning me there and I cannot breathe, I cannot move and I remember feebly waving my hands for help. The bike is lifted off me, I breathe (though it hurts and there is some wierd gurgling happening down there) and leap to my feet removing my helmet. My left arm is dangling and wont respond. There she is, Georgie, sitting on the side of the road holding her knee. "Dad I've got a bad cut, a real bad one bit I'm OK, you really should sit down, you look bad". The arm is still flapping in the breeze and yet won't work and pain is starting to settle in. A bystander arrives and "shit man, you gotta sit, your arms real fucked up".

There is an argument with raised voices, one of them is Nathan and he is threatening someone and using language uncharacteristic of him. He is actualy trying to stop our Thai lady, who is continuing with the tirade of "not my fault" from doing a runner and threatens to take her keys.

The cops arrive and are a huge help they make my situation more comfortable and take a few statements. She just keeps up her "not my fault, motorbike go too fast" tirade.

The Ambulance arrives, sister morphine does her thing and my world fades into a very small one of dull sounds and sensation.

Next best recollection is in Middlemore HDU, five broken ribs, punctured lung and a fractured and dislocated shoulder ensure a six day stop in hospital for me. Georgies knee is flayed to the bone with a very contaminated wound that requires two lots of surgery and gets her four days in a ward at Middlemore.

Both of us have on going rehabilitation.

We are both ATGATT followers and the gear did its job reasonably well, with a lot of the damage being done by the "ventura" pack rack that sheared into a sharp blade that slashed our leathers and flesh. The bike is completely destroyed and it could have been worse as the fuel tank ruptured and emptied 20 odd litres of fuel over the scene that fortunately didn't ignite.

Not an entirely enjoyable experience that I don't wish others to go through, with the most disturbing part being the realization that our Asian lady was so mean in spirit that she was prepared to leave the scene and do a runner. This is not the way Kiwi's should be and if I hadn't have had a couple of clear thinking teenagers with me, I may have perished.

Tomorrow we are all going to visit the scene and the bike to bury a few demons that have been haunting some of us over recent days.

[MIXONE]

I don't know wether to call you lucky for surviving or unlucky to have it happen so I'll settle for it coulda been much worse.The lady is probably lucky that said bf didn't deck her.Thank goodness you've got more witness's then her.

[Gibbo89]

If your story is 100% truthful, which I believe it to be as I have seen some of the things these asian drivers can do...

Then that fucking asian women needs a smack in the back of the head with a rotten fish, and then some...

It's good that you are all 'ok' as it may have been a lot worse.

Get well soon.

[Hiflyer]

the most disturbing part being the realization that our Asian lady was so mean in spirit that she was prepared to leave the scene and do a runner. This is not the way Kiwi's should be .

Paul Henry would have something to say about this. . . .


But that's really unlucky, almost the exact same situation happened to my mate, he was doing about 40k's in a 50k area, 50metres from his driveway, asian lady in front slows and pulls left, he overtakes, she swings infront of him. Nice ball shaped dent in the tank and a written off bike courtesy of "Jun-Ho's A+ Driving school".

Also hope your arms ok! can be quite hard to ride a bike without it!

[mattian]

it seems incomprehensible to me that this woman could not have seen you at all, before driving into you. I hope they throw the fucking book at her!!

[hellokitty]

Hell! What a nasty experience, especially with your little girl on the back.:love: (i know she is a teenager but she will always be your little girl)
Some drivers are just so damn clueless, I actually think they just don't care what damage they do to others - they just have to get there 1 second sooner or get that turn in without letting anyone else in.

Karma - sending bad thoughts her way :angry: (bad karma face)

[Katman]

Tomorrow we are all going to visit the scene and the bike to bury a few demons that have been haunting some of us over recent days.

Though I can imagine the answer already, were there any clues as to the intention of the driver?

It's not a case of whether we're in the right or wrong, it's a case of avoiding a situation in the first place.

[Milts]

In this case the Zeal rider should honestly have let the lady do a runner and taken the plate. There are very serious penalties for putting someone in hospital and then failing to stop, more so than she'll get now.

Very sorry to hear about this and (rather than hope she gets serious punishment) I hope the dirver realises just how bad her mistake was and never makes it again.

Heal up quick! It could have been much worse. Oh, and you just put me off metal pack racks for life.

[Hitcher]

You have my deepest sympathies. Shit can happen real quick at times. At least you can remember most of what happened. I find that it's the not knowing that can eat away at you the hardest. But then I'm funny like that.

Best wishes for a successful recovery.

[thepom]

Hi terbang,glad to hear your still alive and your good lady too. you have my sympathy as it happened to me too. Asian opens door and wipes me out,cant call ambulance cos speeeaky no eeengleesh. Insurance refuses to pay out even though asian gets ticket from police....untill threatened with court. Anyhoo glad your still alive and hope you bought a lotto ticket...:scooter:

[98tls]

Sorry to hear,hope you both heal fast eh.Hope the bitch in the car gets hers.Theres plenty of shit drivers out there but fucking asians seem the worst in my experience.Bloody annoying.

[NinjaNanna]

far too many idiots pull left to turn fucking right ... they need their head read.

[Katman]

far too many idiots pull left to turn fucking right ... they need their head read.

Perhaps those following behind need to reassess their interpretation of the situation.

[baptist]

it seems incomprehensible to me that this woman could not have seen you at all, before driving into you. I hope they throw the fucking book at her!!

More like a comic, doubt much will happen. The main thing is that you guys are on the slow road to recovery:yes: and as has been said lets hope she understands not to do it again, troubling thing is she was going to leave the scene, has she learned anything with that attitude?

[nadroj]

Heal well!
There are a lot of drivers out there needing a refresher course on using their mirrors to be aware of what's happening around them......

[Smifffy]

Perhaps those following behind need to reassess their interpretation of the situation.

Perhaps, but those involved in such situations should definitely stick around until things get sorted out.

I rail at the injustice of it all. :angry:

[Katman]

lets hope she understands not to do it again

Some of you need a serious dose of wake the fuck up.

It happens - learn to read the situation and take appropriate action.

You can blame everyone else all you like - after all, that's what the public have become used to hearing from motorcyclists.

[NinjaNanna]

Perhaps those following behind need to reassess their interpretation of the situation.

I don't ever recall seeing an online post from Terbang that would make me think he's some testosterone fuelled idiot with a death wish on a bike. Why do you persist in tarring every biker with the same brush.

Accidents happen and yes maybe this one was avoidable but what are you going to do? Stop behind every car that pulls over to the left just to see what they're going to do.

Sometimes our spidey sense isn't 100% ... heaven forbid the day that your's fails you or you drop that crystal ball from your mighty high pedastal that you sit on.

[Katman]

I don't ever recall seeing an online post from Terbang that would make me think he's some testosterone fuelled idiot with a death wish on a bike.


Have I ever suggested he is?

"It wasn't my fault" is such an empty statement.

[98tls]

Getting interesting here really,if you put yourself in the same suituation what would you do?personally i wouldnt trust any car i come across in the middle of nowhere thats just pulled over to the left and still moving from previous bad experiences :facepalm:and if i was to pass i would make sure there was no oncoming and take to the righthand lane to allow for any unexpected. (said bad experience)Anyways as i said earlier hope you guys heal fast and all is well.

[terbang]

Perhaps those following behind need to reassess their interpretation of the situation.

Well yes you have a point and that was done, I followed at quite a distance at speeds down to 50K's and had ample previous opportunity to overtake as I was suspicious of her erratic driving. And my mistake was to fall for the lure that she was stopping to the left and attempt to overtake on an open road with around 800m vis available. Witness account is that she swung violently right as we were fairly well abeam.

No Katman, you won't draw me into one of your holier than thou all riders are at fault other than katman discussions as I certainly do bear and admit some responsibility in this accident. I am also waiting for the police assessment on this accident ad if any punishment comes my way, then so be it.

[Edbear]

Have I ever suggested he is?

"It wasn't my fault" is such an empty statement.

I think you're being a bit harsh, mate. Terbang was riding particularly carefully due to having his daughter on pillion and her BF following on a 250. He's neither young nor inexperienced. I take him at his word. Not everyone can be suspicious all the time as to what a driver may be about to do. If she failed to indicate or check her mirrors, which sounds likely, and merely slowed and pulled left, it would be natural to overtake. Even so, he overtook at only 70km/h out of consideration for his pillion and the following BF who was on a small bike.

Had he gassed it he may have avoided the accident but at the same time drawn the BF into it and it would have been the BF under the SUV. Either way, it looks like the Asian lady's fault.

Now I've been riding bikes for 40 years and never had an accident on one, but "There but for the ..." I wouldn't be so critical if I were you.

[Dogboy900]

Sorry to hear of your accident, glad you both made it through alive.
Rehab can be a long road I hope yours and your daughters go well.

I used to always take my Ventura rack off if I was not carrying my bags, but lately I have gotten lazy and leave it on al the time... Might have to start taking it off again.

Take care

[terbang]

and if i was to pass i would make sure there was no oncoming and take to the righthand lane to allow for any unexpected. (said bad experience)Anyways as i said earlier hope you guys heal fast and all is well.

Exactly what I did the impact occurred on the opposite oncoming lane.

[mattian]

Some of you need a serious dose of wake the fuck up.

It happens - learn to read the situation and take appropriate action.

You can blame everyone else all you like - after all, that's what the public have become used to hearing from motorcyclists.

Her driving leading up to this incident should have been an indication that more stupidity was to come, However, even passing this vehicle with extreme caution may not have prevented contact between car and bike. Other than stopping in the middle of the road..... what action would you have taken?

[98tls]

Exactly what I did the impact occurred on the opposite oncoming lane. Apoligies then i didnt realise that.Nothing else you could have done.You have every right to be f#ucked off with the only bright side being your both still here eh.

[Edbear]

Well yes you have a point and that was done, I followed at quite a distance at speeds down to 50K's and had ample previous opportunity to overtake as I was suspicious of her erratic driving. And my mistake was to fall for the lure that she was stopping to the left and attempt to overtake on an open road with around 800m vis available. Witness account is that she swung violently left as we were fairly well abeam.

No Katman, you won't draw me into one of your holier than thou all riders are at fault other than katman discussions as I certainly do bear and admit some responsibility in this accident. I am also waiting for the police assessment on this accident ad if any punishment comes my way, then so be it.

As a father, you probably feel absolutely @*&%*@! We can't aways think of everything all the time and if you had your mind on both your own overtaking maneuver and also your following biker, it would only take a split second to miss her intitial swerve.

[Katman]

I certainly do bear and admit some responsibility in this accident.

My work here is done.

[EJK]

Fucking bitch.

[skippa1]

My work here is done.

seriously, you are strange man. You really need to get a life:oi-grr:

[terbang]

As a father, you probably feel absolutely @*&%*@! We can't aways think of everything all the time and if you had your mind on both your own overtaking maneuver and also your following biker, it would only take a split second to miss her intitial swerve.

Bingo, she is now 19 and over the past 6 years has crewed the back of my motorbikes all over NZ, across Australia and in parts of Europe. It has shaken her up, though she has always been aware of the possibility of things going wrong hence her adherence to the ATGATT mentality as well. I don't blame her if she never gets back on a bike again as I also feel strange about taking pillions and riding with beginners again.

There is more than bones and flesh to heal here and our star witness who really shone on the day is really struggling with the events he has witnessed and I suspect that he will need a helping hand somewhere along the line.

Regardless of who is right or wrong, it is just the simple slips such as this that have far reaching effects on many peoples lives.

[98tls]

My work here is done.

Mate short of not passing the bitch there was nothing else that could be done to avoid said accident all things considered surely.

[JudaBaker]

My work here is done.

Your work could possibly be even further done if you answered the question as to what you would have done in the same situation.. Perhaps then another accident in the future could even be avoided, assuming some of your superior insight were to rub off onto another rider.

[Katman]

Your work could possibly be even further done if you answered the question as to what you would have done in the same situation.. Perhaps then another accident in the future could even be avoided, assuming some of your superior insight were to rub off onto another rider.

I'm taking the secret of invincibility to my grave.

[JudaBaker]

So your just trolling then? Not interested in saving lives?

[Edbear]

Bingo, she is now 19 and over the past 6 years has crewed the back of my motorbikes all over NZ, across Australia and in parts of Europe. It has shaken her up, though she has always been aware of the possibility of things going wrong hence her adherence to the ATGATT mentality as well. I don't blame her if she never gets back on a bike again as I also feel strange about taking pillions and riding with beginners again.

There is more than bones and flesh to heal here and our star witness who really shone on the day is really struggling with the events he has witnessed and I suspect that he will need a helping hand somewhere along the line.

Regardless of who is right or wrong, it is just the simple slips such as this that have far reaching effects on many peoples lives.

As one who is convalescing from a low-speed accident that resulted in a broken back and 14 weeks later major spinal surgery, I understand how you feel. Even 6 months later, I am still a bit nervous as a passenger in the car, (no, my wife drives very well... :innocent:). I don't know how I'll feel once I can get back on the bike, but for a long time I was of the mind to sell it.

My accident was in my van and I am very grateful I was the only occupant and was able to avoid other vehicles. The Police investigated and cleared me of any blame, as the cause was oil on the road. Check my thread, "Edbear in Hospital" for any details.

Incidentally I very nearly had a similar accident to yours, just passing an SUV on the left, on the motorway, he was trying to merge right and as I came alongside him he suddenly swerved left and I missed him by about 6"! No warning, no indicator, no checking!

[terbang]

My work here is done.

Hate to burst your bubble, but that realization may have been made when you were still in high school my friend. I witnessed my best friends death on a motorcycle in a similar fashion. I was the teenage witness in this case. But thanks for the good intentions.

[FJRider]

I'm taking the secret of invincibility to my grave.

I'm sure a few are hoping that comes sooner ... rather than later ... :innocent:

[Mully]

Gutted mate. Hope you and the daughter heal up quick.

My golden rule: NEVER trust another motorist with your safety. Car or bike. Always presume it's trying to kill or ticket you (or both)

[Edbear]

I'm taking the secret of invincibility to my grave.

How long have you been riding for?

[98tls]

I'm sure a few are hoping that comes sooner ... rather than later ... :innocent:

:facepalm:Fucking ridiculous post wether said in jest or not.

[FJRider]

:facepalm:Fucking ridiculous post wether said in jest or not.

yeah ... I guess ... :shutup:

[Eyegasm]

This thread had made me realise several things.

First is Katman really is an arsehole. Sorry but from the OP post this really sounds like katman is just trolling.

2nd, 4wd suck

3rd, never trust anything by anyone on the road.

[Smifffy]

Pick your bottom lip up homo.

So somehow you would have done it better, but you aren't prepared to educate the rest of us willing potential accident victims?

[Katman]

So somehow you would have done it better, but you aren't prepared to educate the rest of us willing potential accident victims?

Do you want me to ride all your bikes for you?

[mattian]

This seems to be a familiar pattern. Somebody shares their story so that the rest of us can learn from what may (or may not) have been done differently to avoid it. Katman pipes up and it becomes a big bitch-fight between Katman and the rest of kiwibiker. For christs sake, stay on topic and lets show Terbang some respect. If you have something positive to contribute then lets hear it. otherwise stfu. please and thankyou.

[Katman]

If you have something positive to contribute then lets hear it. otherwise stfu. please and thankyou.

Someone posts a thread saying 'fucking car driver - it's not my fault at all' and you all lap it up.

Wake the fuck up people.

Who gives a fuck about 'fault' when you're lying on your deathbed?

[Smifffy]

Do you want me to ride all your bikes for you?

Nawp, but either put up or shut up about being able to achieve a different outcome in the same circumstances.

[Katman]

Nawp, but either put up or shut up about being able to achieve a different outcome in the same circumstances.

That's the trouble - everyone wants the answers spelled out to them - no-ones's prepared to use their own brain.

[mattian]

Someone posts a thread saying 'fucking car driver - it's not my fault at all' and you all lap it up.

Wake the fuck up people.

Who gives a fuck about 'fault' when you're lying on your deathbed?

but I don't think Terbang is whinging about that. This is just what happened to him. Who was right or wrong in this situation IS irrelevant when you are lying on the deck with a mangled bike/arm. I am much more interested in a discussion about what, if anything, could have been done differently to prevent it. That has to be the point of such a thread..... am I wrong?

[Katman]

but I don't think Terbang is whinging about that. This is just what happened to him. Who was right or wrong in this situation IS irrelevant when you are lying on the deck with a mangled bike/arm. I am much more interested in a discussion about what, if anything, could have been done differently to prevent it. That has to be the point of such a thread..... am I wrong?

I don't see too many responses other than the standard "fucking cager" bullshit. Do you?

[onearmedbandit]

Firstly, gutted to hear about your off, hope you and your daughter heal up well.

Secondly Gibbo89, not all asians are poor drivers. People in general are bad drivers, regardless of nationality.

Thirdly, it is an interesting point that Katman raises. Is there anything, within reason, terbang that you think you could have done differently to change the outcome?

[beyond]

Can't believe that Terbang shares his story and bang, straight away Katman is in there inferring that it could have been avoided.

Facts: I've ridden with Terbang on heaps of occassions and he is one of the best riders I've had the pleasure of riding with. Also, he is very aware, is very careful and I know dam well extremely careful when he has his daughter on the back.

When some arsehole pulls left, does not indicate and swerves in front of you, tell me what the hell are you supposed to do? Give a little kick that takes you and your passenger into the air, you sprout wings and glide gently to the side of the road?

When Bruce says the driver swerves I believe him 100% because he knows his stuff period.

Accidents happen and when they do in this manner there is bugger all you can do about it. It's over in an instant.

Katman, either you have never been in a real accident or you're living with your head in the clouds. Give the man some credit that both he and his daughter are still alive, thank God.

[Katman]

I've ridden with Terbang on heaps of occassions

Why does that comment fail to inspire any confidence in me? :facepalm:


Accidents happen and when they do in this manner there is bugger all you can do about it. It's over in an instant.


U-turns are generally preceded by the wheels of the car turning to the right. Maybe there was a clue missed there.

[Al]

Good to hear you and your daughter are ok (ish)...
The problem is that many people DO veer left before turning right, we cannot predict weather the driver is pulling off the road or wanting to turn right because they do not use the vehicle's INDICATORS!
Fking arseholes!

***RANT OVER***

[terbang]

Yes the decision to overtake at that point was obviously the wrong one. I had followed the vehicle, changed my position by wandering left to right across her rear shining my light into the car avoiding the blind spots trying to make myself as obvious as possible in her mirrors. As we entered the straight area I moved into a position in preparation to overtake and mistakingly interpreted her shift to the left as recognition of my presence. I had the visibility, the road was clear so I indicated and commenced the overtake manouvre.
What she was really doing was trying find an address on the other side of the road, had her head down in a map and was reading gate numbers. When she spotted her destination, she was almost past it and aggressively swung to the right, totally oblivious of the two motorcycles that had followed her for the past 2K's. She achieved her goal, made the entrance but by then had a large imprint of my motorcycle on her front guard.
Unfortunately for me, I had positioned my self into the wrong place at the wrong time with another road user who had tunnel vision over finding an address and never kept a suitable lookout or offered any indication of her intention.
She has openly admittted to the police that she had no idea that I was there.

The reason I posted this here was to share the event with the intent that others might learn and I think that all comments are fair. Those that bag the driver are correct, she should have kept a more vigilant lookout, those that bag me are also correct as I misread her actions. Those that bag asian drivers also have point as we hear this story time and time again. Like all accidents, the cause is systemic or the result of an error chain.

[p.dath]

Whew! What a scary story. I'm glad your child is ok (and you too).

Having an accident is one thing, but having one with your child would be my worst nightmare.

I hope the recovery for both of you continues.

[Goblin]

So sorry to read this Bruce. I wish you and Georgie and her boyfriend all the very best for a speedy recovery.

[James Deuce]

Well, bugger.

Good luck with the recovery, make sure your ARC18s are lined up correctly and rest as much as you can.

Katman's right and terbang has expressed his support for the concept so let's try and learn instead of ignoring the message.

Terbang has a point about 'Asian" drivers that needs to be evaluated in light of it's cultural origins. Most SE Asian roads have a pecking order rather than road rules. Motorcycles are very much toward the bottom of that pecking order and are generally disregarded. It's the SE Asian motorcyclist's job to stay out of the way and avoid issues. Sure, that's not a legally supported position in NZ, but as we know most people learn to drive/ride with the intention of getting a licence and from then on only learn from financial or physical pain. Combine that with a culture where there's no incentive to not run motorcyclists over if they get in the way and you have a nasty accident on KB.

Simply put, take responsibility for putting yourself in the position of getting hurt, irrespective of fault or blame, and you'll have a much more successful motorcycling career. If you live to tell the tale.

Good luck with the recovery terbang and best wishes to your daughter as well.

[chasio]

Thanks, terbang, for sharing what happened although it sent shivers down my spine. I am still working my way up to putting my daughters (14 and 16) on the back and can't bring myself to do it for exactly this sort of reason. There but for the grace of <insert higher power here>...

I have been running the scenario in my head and wondering what I might have done differently with the benefit of hindsight. I find it unlikely I would have come to a stop to wait and see, that's for sure. The only thing I wondered about is perhaps a bit of horn before passing (Stebel, FTW). If they manage to hear it above the "I want to go over there" routine running in their heads, maybe it could help.

The trouble is that people tend to take horn use as a "you twat" statement even if what is meant is "look out for me". Maybe there would be no time to do it; maybe they'd take it wrongly, get angry and take me out deliberately. Who knows?

Certainly if I find myself in a similar situation (with or without precious pillion) I'll be running this scenario in my mind and doing my best to avoid it, which is now more likely to include "wait and see".

I hope you all heal quickly, in all respects.

Chasio

[MIXONE]

Katman, either you have never been in a real accident or you're living with your head in the clouds. .

Of course his head is in the clouds because the man is a motorcycling god.

[MsKABC]

I'm taking the secret of invincibility to my grave.


Hate to burst your bubble, but that realization may have been made when you were still in high school my friend. I witnessed my best friends death on a motorcycle in a similar fashion. I was the teenage witness in this case. But thanks for the good intentions.

I have just sent some green bling terbang's way and congratulated him on being the bigger man and dealing with Katman's bullshit in such a mature way.

Sorry to hear about your accident terbang and glad you are still in the land of the living.

Maybe terbang could have avoided the accident, but we all know that the lady driving the 4WD bears almost 100% of the blame, and her actions following the accident were appalling.

[Edbear]

Regardless of whether Bruce could have done anything to avoid the accident, NO BLAME rests with him IMHO. The plain and simple fact is that the lady performed a sudden and illegal maneuver and was breaking several road rules. Terbang should not have had to second guess her, she was in the wrong and had been for several kilometers!

Sure, the accident happened and in hindsight could have been avoided as with most accidents, however, Bruce did everything right and I guarantee will be cleared of any blame by the Police.

I, and I'm sure most riders, will be able to recall incidents that could have turned nasty, close calls and near misses, momentary lapses in concentration on our parts. That is not the point, or maybe it is, in that the Asian lady was driving in a dangerous manner and perfomed an illegal maneuver resulting in a serious accident causing serious injury to innocent people.

Bruce, don't blame yourself, you were doing everything you could to ensure the safety of yourself, your pillion and the following rider. We are not perfect and it is humanly impossible to be fully aware of everything all the time. You were all the innocent victims of illegal and dangerous driving by the other party.

Rant over!

[Katman]

NO BLAME rests with him IMHO.

Bruce did everything right and I guarantee will be cleared of any blame by the Police.

Bruce, don't blame yourself,

You still don't get it, do you?

We need to stop using blame as our yardstick and start using our ability of avoidance instead.

[Mully]

Regardless of whether Bruce could have done anything to avoid the accident, NO BLAME rests with him IMHO. The plain and simple fact is that the lady performed a sudden and illegal maneuver and was breaking several road rules. Terbang should not have had to second guess her, she was in the wrong and had been for several kilometers!

Sure, the accident happened and in hindsight could have been avoided as with most accidents, however, Bruce did everything right and I guarantee will be cleared of any blame by the Police.


I hope I'm correct in saying that Katman's point is that while Terbang had no blame for the accident, he should be taking responsibility for his own safety.

As you say, he should not have had to second guess the driver, but too often, motorcyclists do have to second guess and take evasive action from an errant cager.

And he will be cleared by the Police - no question. But being cleared by the Police doesn't make up for having your daughter injured on your bike (and I'm sure the guilt that goes along with that), and spending a week in hospital.

Plenty of riders can have "It wasn't my fault" chiselled on their gravestones. That doesn't make them less dead, or the families any less grieving.

Maybe Katman's delivery needs some work - but you know what they say about squeaky wheels......

[Big Dave]

Best wishes and get well soon Mr T.

[Hiflyer]

Remember when out riding, just think W.W.K.D? (What Would Katman Do)

Hiflyer

[baptist]

You still don't get it, do you?

We need to stop using blame as our yardstick and start using our ability of avoidance instead.

I am a newbie and Katman you are according to the logo next to your name a mentor, so please tell me what would you have done? So far all I have read of use from you is that maybe the wheels on the SUV turned towards the right, maybe they could have been seen, well maybe, but maybe also the bike was to close or alongside and had no where else to go. I am not being flippant here but tell me, what would you have done right from the moment the SUV started to slow and pull to the left?

It is ok raving at other people on here to wake up and learn to ride their own bikes. Maybe you are just fishing for a bite, if so I don't think a thread about a guy and his daughter getting smacked is the right place.

So please explain to a newbie how a proper rider would assess and ride this situation. I for one in my naive ignorance would have probably over taken the SUV and on my small bike ended up dead.

[Edbear]

You still don't get it, do you?

We need to stop using blame as our yardstick and start using our ability of avoidance instead.


I hope I'm correct in saying that Katman's point is that while Terbang had no blame for the accident, he should be taking responsibility for his own safety.

As you say, he should not have had to second guess the driver, but too often, motorcyclists do have to second guess and take evasive action from an errant cager.

And he will be cleared by the Police - no question. But being cleared by the Police doesn't make up for having your daughter injured on your bike (and I'm sure the guilt that goes along with that), and spending a week in hospital.

Plenty of riders can have "It wasn't my fault" chiselled on their gravestones. That doesn't make them less dead, or the families any less grieving.

Maybe Katman's delivery needs some work - but you know what they say about squeaky wheels......

What I'm objecting to is the suggestion that Bruce wasn't doing all he could to avoid the accident which is patent nonsense in practice regardless of the theory. Yes, he could have avoided the accident, most accidents are avoidable. I could have avoided mine, too. Fine in theory, but rubbish in practise. Bruce and I were doing everything right as far as we could. I was under the speedlimit, driving according to the conditions, (wet), and my van was up to scratch in every dept. Yet I spun put on oil on the road. Why didn't I see the oil and take appropriate action? I was concentrating at that instant on oncoming traffic around a bend, and had glanced down at my speedo to check my speed, looked back up at the corner and was taken completely by surprise! Result? Written off van, (I'd just spent $2500 on it and it was in great cond.!), broken back, subsequent surgery and so far, 6mths off work. So do your criticisms apply to me as well? Obviously they do and I regret having the accident too. However, no-one, Police, Medics, family and friends have ever expressed any criticsm of me or of what I should have been doing to avoid it.

Bruce, at that moment was checking his rear view to keep an eye on the BF, checking his speed, (he knew he was doing 70km/h), checking the road ahead, etc. He'd been riding very consciously of those in his care, he'd followed this vehicle for several kilometers and was being cautious because of her erratic driving, doing all he could to ensure she knew he was behind her. He overtook cautiously only to be blind-sided by a sudden and illegal move by the driver of the SUV.

Katman may think he's the perfect rider, able to avoid any bad situation, quick to criticise others, but he's no more perfect than anyone else and if he's as cocky on his bike as he is on KB it's only a matter of time before he comes to grief.


Remember when out riding, just think W.W.K.D? (What Would Katman Do)

Hiflyer

Sorry, apparently I've given out too much bling lately...

[Bald Eagle]

Heal well both of you and thanks for sharing.

[MarkH]

Reading the OP reminds me of a time when I was almost in the same situation, the only thing that stopped me from being in a bad crash was that the fuckwit driver realised at the last second that I was coming passed him and stopped his right turn. In my case it was a fuckin' ignorant country hick that was so used to light traffic he didn't bother thinking about the chance of another vehicle using his road at the same time as he was. In my case I would possibly have taken the life of the careless non-indicating driver as I was travelling at 80+ km/h and in a car - I could have hit his drivers door if he turned quickly enough.

If only people would learn that you don't just turn a car across a road when there are vehicles passing you, or drive a car without being aware of what is behind you. Unfortunately we can't trust other drivers to put on their right indicator as they slow down so that we will know what they are doing. If there is one thing we can learn from Terbang's incident it is that we can't trust stupid drivers in 4x4s.

One annoying thing is that if Terbang had stopped behind the 4x4 and watched while it turned right then the worst punishment available for the driver would be a warning letter about turning without indicating - and that would only happen if Terbang could be bothered making a complaint (which is barely worth it when you know that the driver will only get a warning letter).

I sincerely hope in this case that the driver gets a conviction, though I'm sure that the penalty will be hopelessly inadequate.

[Katman]

So please explain to a newbie how a proper rider would assess and ride this situation. I for one in my naive ignorance would have probably over taken the SUV and on my small bike ended up dead.

Here's an idea - how about you put some thought into how you would overtake a driver that you have seen driving erratically.

Exercising your brain will be a whole lot more beneficial to you than reading words on a page - and may just help prompt your brain into action if you find yourself faced with a similar situation.

[scumdog]

Plenty of riders can have "It wasn't my fault" chiselled on their gravestones. That doesn't make them less dead, or the families any less grieving......

Ain't THAT the truth...sadly.

Having 'right of way' doesn't guarantee you will get it.

(NOT bagging terbang)

[miloking]

Not everyone can be suspicious all the time as to what a driver may be about to do....

Thats ok you dont have to be...but you die! Simple as that...

IF you are going to overtake ASIAN lady in 4x4 without any suspicion at all you are asking for trouble...

(before anyone calls me racist against asians ...same goes for buses, trucks, indian taxi drivers...or taxi drivers in general, bro's in lowered mercs and so on...)

[Jdogg]

Here's an idea - how about you put some thought into how you would overtake a driver that you have seen driving erratically.

Exercising your brain will be a whole lot more beneficial to you than reading words on a page - and may just help prompt your brain into action if you find yourself faced with a similar situation.

omm nom nom nom nom......stop feeding the troll people...:facepalm:

And terbang sorry to hear about your accident hope you get well soon:yes:

[pritch]

Some of you need a serious dose of wake the fuck up.

It happens - learn to read the situation and take appropriate action.

You can blame everyone else all you like - after all, that's what the public have become used to hearing from motorcyclists.

Katman this may be the wrong time and place - again. Some drivers will do stuff that is beyond comprehension, certainly it isn't predictable.

Terbang, sorry that you and the girl were injured. I hope the worst of the pain is over. Can't imagine that the driver will get more than a slap on the wrist. She will likely make no effort to improve her technique as in her mind she is a good driver and it wasn't her fault...

[hellokitty]

Katman this may be the wrong time and place - again. Some drivers will do stuff that is beyond comprehension, certainly it isn't predictable.

Terbang, sorry that you and the girl were injured. I hope the worst of the pain is over. Can't imagine that the driver will get more than a slap on the wrist. She will likely make no effort to improve her technique as in her mind she is a good driver and it wasn't her fault...

Lets hope she does learn - I know when I crashed my car back in May it made me think long and hard about many things.

[baptist]

Here's an idea - how about you put some thought into how you would overtake a driver that you have seen driving erratically.

Exercising your brain will be a whole lot more beneficial to you than reading words on a page - and may just help prompt your brain into action if you find yourself faced with a similar situation.

So I take that as an "I don't know anything more than anything else and am not sure what I would have done"? thanks Mr Mentor.

I will put thought into what I do, I have to I am learning, but obviously you are not prepared to share your vast knowledge of information regarding how we stop ourselves getting side swiped, funny I thought people that knew stuff that might help a fellow rider would share.

I was wrong and apologise.

Sorry Jdogg I will not feed the Troll anymore...:innocent: :shutup:

[JohnR]

Thirdly, it is an interesting point that Katman raises. Is there anything, within reason, terbang that you think you could have done differently to change the outcome?

Taken the kids out in the SUV instead of the bikes:tugger:

[onearmedbandit]

Some might think I'm a cu%t for saying this, but after witnessing the driver driving slowly along a section of road, I'd be looking at the drivers head to see if they are watching the road, looking at their stereo/map/phone, or looking side to side for a turn off. If I couldn't identify what they were doing I would treat them as unknown threat, and as it's not mentioned in the OP that they indicated to pull over to the left, I would slow behind them. Even if they did indicate to pull over left I would probably pass them at no more than 40km/h.

And I have experienced situations like this before.

[onearmedbandit]

Taken the kids out in the SUV instead of the bikes:tugger:

If that's the way you feel you can best protect yourself on the road, then be my guest.

[p.dath]

Or just another biker down thread...

Last Thurs, Daughter and I decided to take a ride over to Kaiaua for lunch. Twas a nice day and we took the 1100f for a run. Georgies boyfriend was to accompany us on his Yamaha 250 Zeal. Gassed up at Waiuku and planned on the Bombay Hunua route. All was going fine until we encountered an asian lady driving a 4WD.

Let me share an experience today Terbang so you can see the positive results of your post.

I came around a corner today on a 100km/h stretch of road and spotted a car parked on the left about 200m in front of me. Almost immediately I noticed something about the exhaust that led me to believe the engine was running in the car - and your post immediately came to my mind. I buttoned off the throttle a little bit. I then looked at the cabin and there were two heads in the car. I buttoned off a little bit more. Then the drivers head started looking right at something on the other side of the road. I buttoned off a little bit more. Actually (combined with your story) the risk in my mind was now so great I had decided I would not pass the car on the right hand side. I'd bring the bike to a complete halt if I had to - that's how nervous the situation made me.

The driver did then indeed proceed to execute a right hand turn. Had the driver seen me? I don't know. I didn't see them look in the mirror. Note that I have no particular gripe with the driver. I had reduced my speed by so much at this stage I was no longer in any danger - and importantly, greatly extended the amount of time I had to react. I accept responsibility for me own safety - and will take what I consider to be sufficient steps to avoid getting hurt.

So you see, by sharing stories like yours you help to remind people like me of the dangers on the road, and how we have to be ever vigilant to make sure we don't allow ourselves to be hurt.

So thank you for sharing your painful story, and take away this positive from the whole incident that you may well have helped many others from having a repeat of the experience you went through.

[MarkH]

The driver did then indeed proceed to execute a right hand turn. Had the driver seen me? I don't know. I didn't see them look in the mirror. Note that I have no particular gripe with the driver.

Why not? Did you consider that the driver could have just killed a less experience rider? If what you say is true and you didn't exclude anything important then you just witnessed someone making an illegal right hand turn who not only didn't indicate but also probably failed to notice a vehicle coming up from behind.

Maybe it would have been worth taking the time to have a quick chat to the driver and say something like: "Hey mate, if you keep that up you might end up with the death of a young driver on your hands, next time you might like to try using your indicators and check your mirror."

[hellokitty]

Why not? Did you consider that the driver could have just killed a less experience rider? If what you say is true and you didn't exclude anything important then you just witnessed someone making an illegal right hand turn who not only didn't indicate but also probably failed to notice a vehicle coming up from behind.

Maybe it would have been worth taking the time to have a quick chat to the driver and say something like: "Hey mate, if you keep that up you might end up with the death of a young driver on your hands, next time you might like to try using your indicators and check your mirror."

hmmmmm last time I tried to politely let a driver know the possible consequence of his actions, nearly got my head punched in.

Pick your battles. Good idea in theory but you gotta pick your battles, sometimes you just have to walk away.

[Pussy]

Wishing you and Georgie a speedy recovery, Bruce!

[MarkH]

hmmmmm last time I tried to politely let a driver know the possible consequence of his actions, nearly got my head punched in.

Pick your battles. Good idea in theory but you gotta pick your battles, sometimes you just have to walk away.

Yeah, it's sometimes better to just make a complaint to the police after noting their numberplate. The big problem is that no one does anything and the driver continues with the dangerous behaviour and then at some point someone ends up paying the price.

[JohnR]

If that's the way you feel you can best protect yourself on the road, then be my guest.

If I was to become as paranoid as is advocated...then yes this would be the best way.
While I totally agree that people should be attentive, aware, focussed and defensive while driving/riding (I also agree that many are not), in my opinion the degree to which it is advocated is ridiculous and the manner in which it is put is in many cases callous and offensive.

Katman certainly is passionate (fanatic!) about the subject but in my view his passion for the cause seems more important than the individuals involved.
In short he is to defensive/advanced driving what Osama bin Laden is to Islam.

It seems to me that in Katman's world if I was attacked by a drug crazed, knife wielding maniac I should feel some responsibility because I was not wearing a stab proof vest!

[Katman]

While I totally agree that people should be attentive, aware, focussed and defensive while driving/riding (I also agree that many are not), in my opinion the degree to which it is advocated is ridiculous and the manner in which it is put is in many cases callous and offensive.


There is no such thing as too attentive, aware, focussed and defensive when it comes to riding.

If you find the concept offensive, stiff fucking shit.

[jellywrestler]

Let me share an experience today Terbang so you can see the positive results of your post.

I came around a corner today on a 100km/h stretch of road and spotted a car parked on the left about 200m in front of me. I then looked at the cabin and there were two heads in the car.


A car with a Cabin, sounds like it's the sort of thing the Amish people would drive...

[JohnR]

There is no such thing as too attentive, aware, focussed and defensive when it comes to riding..

It's counter productive if it causes you to be a hazard by stopping for shadows on the road


If you find the concept offensive, stiff fucking shit.

Point proven

[Katman]

Some might think I'm a cu%t for saying this, but......

Welcome to Leprosy Island.

[Smifffy]

Welcome to Leprosy Island.

Keep the tip...

[Storm]

There is no such thing as too attentive, aware, focussed and defensive when it comes to riding.

If you find the concept offensive, stiff fucking shit.

If you're stressing so bad that a hazard might in some way,shape,form,manner or act of God might infringe on your riding and stopping you actually, heaven forbid, ENJOYING the ride, then sir, I shall tell you whence to place your advice- in much the same manner you tell anyone who disagrees with you =)

[Edbear]

If you're stressing so bad that a hazard might in some way,shape,form,manner or act of God might infringe on your riding and stopping you actually, heaven forbid, ENJOYING the ride, then sir, I shall tell you whence to place your advice- in much the same manner you tell anyone who disagrees with you =)

You mean like where he told me to stick my flowers...?

[Pussy]

You mean like where he told me to stick my flowers...?

Have you not got a vase? :whistle:

[Edbear]

Have you not got a vase? :whistle:

I do but perhaps he didn't realise that and was suggesting an alternative..? :yes:

[BigOne]

seriously, you are strange man. You really need to get a life:oi-grr:

aint that the truth.

[Richard Mc F]

There is no such thing as too attentive, aware, focussed and defensive when it comes to riding.

If you find the concept offensive, stiff fucking shit.

While I am unhappy to hear of the unfortunate accident.......total engagement in the task of riding is the only way.......unfortunatly the lack of spatial awarenes shown by the car driver is not uncommon and the head check of other road users remains one of the best weapons in the war against injury put upon us by others, if they look confused or lost they probably are, total awareness on our part is the least we should do.

The Kat boy may be unpleasant in his approach but he is RIGHT, it is up to us :scooter:

[Swoop]

Very sorry to hear about the accident Terbang.
With family on the pillion seat, we are always more cautious when riding. It certainly sounds like you were doing as much as humanly possible to avoid anything happening (apart from NOT going for a ride).

Hope you both heal quickly.


This thread had made me realise several things.

First is Katman really is an arsehole.
That shouldn't have taken you very long to work out.

Remember when out riding, just think W.W.K.D? (What Would Katman Do)
Be a loudmouth retard and create attention for his ego?

[Kornholio]

Holy shit Bruce, you are one lucky dude and your daughter... Good to see you still with us

And they wonder why they get a bad rap and stereotyped for fucks sake.

[Brett]

That sucks mate, really hope that you guys heal up ok and quickly. From the antics I have seen in the Howick, Beachlands, Whitford, Clevedon, Kaiuau region, it doesn't suprise me...driving is getting sillier every year. The fact that this woman was willing to do a runner on you is maddening, however not exactly surprising. Hopefully cops take her to court...there should be a serious charge for being in an accident where people are hurt and just scarpering.

[Forest]

We are both ATGATT followers and the gear did its job reasonably well, with a lot of the damage being done by the "ventura" pack rack that sheared into a sharp blade that slashed our leathers and flesh.

I've never trusted pack racks (Ventura or otherwise) for this very reason.

They do cost more, but a top box is almost always a better option than a pack rack.

[JohnR]

The Kat boy may be unpleasant in his approach but he is RIGHT, it is up to us :scooter:

And never misses an opportunity for "I f***ing told you so d***head" no matter what the circumstances.

[miloking]

Maybe it would have been worth taking the time to have a quick chat to the driver and say something like: "Hey mate, if you keep that up you might end up with the death of a young driver on your hands, next time you might like to try using your indicators and check your mirror."

Nah that doesnt work, what works tho is to kick off their tail light or mirror as you barely make your "emergency swerve" past them...they tend to remember that much more.

[Kickaha]

Nah that doesnt work, what works tho is to kick off their tail light or mirror as you barely make your "emergency swerve" past them...they tend to remember that much more.

How would you know they remember that much more?

Do you do a follow up call to make sure they haven't forgotten?

[miloking]

How would you know they remember that much more?

Do you do a follow up call to make sure they haven't forgotten?

Logic dictates that they will remember it more...as they walk towards their car looking at smashed tail light,dented fender, missing mirror etc...

[Iggy]

My work here is done.

Unfuckingbelievable...................:facepalm:

[Owl]

Logic dictates that they will remember it more...as they walk towards their car looking at smashed tail light,dented fender, missing mirror etc...

Or they take out their aggression on the next motorcyclist they see? Grow up ya fuckwit!:angry:


Terbang

Sorry to read about you and your daughter! Pleased it wasn't more serious and wish you both a speedy recovery.

[dipshit]

two motorcycles that had followed her for the past 2K's. She achieved her goal, made the entrance but by then had a large imprint of my motorcycle on her front guard.

I don't like following right behind erratic drivers. Someone constantly changing their speed and appear to be looking up driveways, screams someone looking for an address. People in such situations are very focused on finding an address and could suddenly stop or turn when they find the place they are looking for or have realised they had gone past it. It's human nature.

SUV drivers in particular would raise the biggest danger flag as they seem to be the re-incarnation of "Volvo drivers" that feel safe inside their own vehicles and subsequently drive with less regard to the other road users around them. (even if they have seen you and know you are there)

Such situations I like to either get in front and put them well behind me at the earliest situation possible. Like if a stretch of road presents itself with no driveways or roads coming off it and the driver is increasing their speed at the time. (Usually drivers will slow a bit before making a sudden turn) If they are accelerating then I would use the advantage of bike's superior acceleration to pass them then in a situation more under my terms. You just know with an erratic driver that eventually there will be that sudden stop or turn. I don't want to be anywhere near them when that inevitably happens. (Even a couple of cars back is still not a good place to be as you don't want a multiple car accident happening right in front of you.)

Alternatively I would drop way back and let them sort their shit out without me being anywhere near them.

Of course you had the 250 rider behind you on your mind as well and you may not have been riding in your normal manner. Such are the problems of not riding your own ride.

[miloking]

Or they take out their aggression on the next motorcyclist they see? Grow up ya fuckwit!:angry:



If someone tries to kill me i wont be nicely explaining to them why they should do that...so no i wont grow up ya fuckwit!

[onearmedbandit]

If someone tries to kill me i wont be nicely explaining to them why they should do that...so no i wont grow up ya fuckwit!

Oh well, as long as you get your point across that's all that matters eh. Stuff anyone else, as long as miloking feels tough about bashing someones mirror off.

[Kickaha]

Oh well, as long as you get your point across that's all that matters eh. Stuff anyone else, as long as miloking feels tough about bashing someones mirror off.

He certainly scares me, did skidmark have an older brother?

[onearmedbandit]

He certainly scares me, did skidmark have an older brother?

I think miloking is where the skidmark came from in the first place.

[MsKABC]

You still don't get it, do you?

We need to stop using blame as our yardstick and start using our ability of avoidance instead.

No, most of us DO actually get your message. We just don't like the way you're sending it. Ever heard the phrase "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar"? Or to rephrase that: If you want people to listen to you, try to not be such an offensive tosspot.

[onearmedbandit]

Yes that saying is true. However, a message delivered that was is easy to ignore. Delivery like Katmans evokes a response, which comes from evoking thoughts. I know that I used to disagree with his methods, but now I see the logic behind his motives.

It's not about 'blame', it's about responsibility. The car driver was to blame for her actions, no one is denying that. We as riders however have to take responsibility for our safety. Think about it for a minute, the car driver has a dented car and a fine coming her way, Terbang had a week in hospital, and him and his daughter require rehabilitation. The car driver is probably out playing a round of golf today, or visiting friends. Terbang and his daughter are nursing injuries.

[beyond]

Let me share an experience today Terbang so you can see the positive results of your post.

I came around a corner today on a 100km/h stretch of road and spotted a car parked on the left about 200m in front of me. Almost immediately I noticed something about the exhaust that led me to believe the engine was running in the car - and your post immediately came to my mind. I buttoned off the throttle a little bit. I then looked at the cabin and there were two heads in the car. I buttoned off a little bit more. Then the drivers head started looking right at something on the other side of the road. I buttoned off a little bit more. Actually (combined with your story) the risk in my mind was now so great I had decided I would not pass the car on the right hand side. I'd bring the bike to a complete halt if I had to - that's how nervous the situation made me.

The driver did then indeed proceed to execute a right hand turn. Had the driver seen me? I don't know. I didn't see them look in the mirror. Note that I have no particular gripe with the driver. I had reduced my speed by so much at this stage I was no longer in any danger - and importantly, greatly extended the amount of time I had to react. I accept responsibility for me own safety - and will take what I consider to be sufficient steps to avoid getting hurt.

So you see, by sharing stories like yours you help to remind people like me of the dangers on the road, and how we have to be ever vigilant to make sure we don't allow ourselves to be hurt.

So thank you for sharing your painful story, and take away this positive from the whole incident that you may well have helped many others from having a repeat of the experience you went through.

Now this is the sort of thing that makes sharing experiences so important on KB. Good stuff.

[Iggy]

Yes that saying is true. However, a message delivered that was is easy to ignore. Delivery like Katmans evokes a response, which comes from evoking thoughts. I know that I used to disagree with his methods, but now I see the logic behind his motives.

It's not about 'blame', it's about responsibility. The car driver was to blame for her actions, no one is denying that. We as riders however have to take responsibility for our safety. Think about it for a minute, the car driver has a dented car and a fine coming her way, Terbang had a week in hospital, and him and his daughter require rehabilitation. The car driver is probably out playing a round of golf today, or visiting friends. Terbang and his daughter are nursing injuries.

I agree with you but its Katmans delivery of the message that winds some people up, that its like some newbie on here are asking Katman for advice on what he would do in similar circumstances as Terbangs accident. Just for once it would be nice for Katman to put a :2thumbsup at the end of his wisdom and safety message but instead he is ranting like a :angry2:...........................:facepalm:

[CRM]

I haven't read the whole thread but can only agree with what I have read - watch out for distracted drivers who are obviously looking for a road or something and just not looking at their rear view mirrors at all. I had one pull out of in front of me in Kaikoura last year and I nearly had to put my fully loaded XR600 down to avoid t-boning them (I was only doing about 40kph) - they didn't notice. Then a hundred metres or so further they brake suddenly and turn across the road leaving me nowhere to go again (fortunately this time I was a little more guarded) - still didn't see me. As far as I know they had no idea of the potential carnage they were leaving in their wake. Asian family (tourists?) in minivan. I know what it's like in a strange place when you just want to find your destination so I have some sympathy for them but that was just silly driving. Maybe *555 is appropriate for these kind of drivers?

[Katman]

No, most of us DO actually get your message. We just don't like the way you're sending it. Ever heard the phrase "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar"? Or to rephrase that: If you want people to listen to you, try to not be such an offensive tosspot.

If you want sugary sweet, the candy shop's down the road.


Just for once it would be nice for Katman to put a :2thumbsup at the end of his wisdom and safety message

Don't hold your breath.

[jasonzc]

Thats ok you dont have to be...but you die! Simple as that...

IF you are going to overtake ASIAN lady in 4x4 without any suspicion at all you are asking for trouble...

(before anyone calls me racist against asians ...same goes for buses, trucks, indian taxi drivers...or taxi drivers in general, bro's in lowered mercs and so on...)
... you forgot kiwis, they can be just as bad also.

hahah just becareful folks.. should be aware that all cagers can cause carnage, no matter where they origionate.

[gijoe1313]

Sorry to hear about you and your girl's incident, thank gosh you are both alive and thanks for sharing your experience. Heal up and take time to reflect on the second chance you got to keep living.

I have come across those incidents many times myself. I always get ultra-paranoid and slow right down, even to the point of stopping. And I use the stebel vigorously to indicate my presence. After all, there is plenty of time and opportunity and road to scoot ahead when I feel safer to complete any passing move.

I've always hated the pack rack on my Hornet, think I shall ditch that now for good.

Let us know how you get on with your rehab and outcome of this, it will be a valuable learning point for a lot of riders who may not think of other road user behaviours that indicate this sort of scenario to pass.

And yeah, we are all 100% responsible when we throw our leg over our iron horses and take to the roads. Only we can watch out for our own safety from the other road trolls.

[James Deuce]

... you forgot kiwis, they can be just as bad also.

hahah just becareful folks.. should be aware that all cagers can cause carnage, no matter where they origionate.

All road users, from pedestrians to B-Trains.

[Kickaha]

All road users, from pedestrians to B-Trains.


With the exception of Motorcyclists because we are a superior breed of road user and never make mistakes

[James Deuce]

Alanis Morrisette should put that in a song.

[onearmedbandit]

Alanis Morrisette should put that in a song.

We're in with a chance, she rides a bike so is perfect like the rest of us!

<img src="http://alanis-morissette.thecandidphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/out_about/alanis_morissette_motorcycle_hollywood_1.jpg"/>

[miloking]

We're in with a chance, she rides a bike so is perfect like the rest of us!




But she got "paul smart ducati" so like any celebrity more money then sense...

(unless its the dude's with the helmet on..hard to tell)

[SPman]

Sorry to hear about that Bruce - hope you and yours are well on the mend with no long lasting results.
Katman does have a point and Bruce does acknowledge this, but, on a law of averages, how often do you "do the right thing", read everything perfectly and save yourself serious injury, compared with, all of life being a playing of probabilities, making a decision that turns to custard? Bruce has acknowledged this, and, KM, hindsight or distance is a marvellous thing, but, the constant stream of micro second decisions you make when riding are not infallible. Bruce, with his aviation background is very aware that mistakes happen, and it is best to share those mistakes with the aviation/biking community, to hopefully, make others aware and not repeat those mistakes - as witness mr PD whatsit's experience.
Whilst Asians, these days, are seemingly more involved in these sorts of incidents, my experience outside the Browns Bay Bowling club on Beach Road involved 3 little old european ladies, who pulled left and indicated to turn left up Woodlands Crescent, then , as I passed them, swung hard right to turn into Bute Rd (for those who know the road....it was a lot more "rural back in 1970)! Luckily they missed the rear of the bike by the breadth of a gnats testicle, but that event has coloured my reading of traffic for the last 40 years. No matter how alert or aware you are, there are going to be times when you just misread or under read the situation and vituperative shit slinging achieves nothing!
What are going to replace the 1100 with, Bruce?? (gotta think positive)

[Buellluva]

Glad to hear your still around to tell your tale of misfortune.

To newbies on bikes, follow one rule.

All other road users are the enemy, trust no-one, expect the unexpected at all times, never let your guard down ever.

@ katman, you're a cock. End.

[Katman]

@ katman, you're a cock. End.

:cry:<hgvhgvhjv>

[scumdog]

With the exception of Motorcyclists because we are a superior breed of road user and never make mistakes


Well....on KB they certainly seem to be...:rolleyes:

[scumdog]

To newbies on bikes, follow one rule.

All other road users are the enemy, trust no-one, expect the unexpected at all times, never let your guard down ever.


That rule applies to ALL motorcyclists, new or not:yes:

[terbang]

Just an update on things. On the 20th Dec I collapsed and was raced off to hospital again. I was very short of blood and had to have a transfusion.

To cut a long story short, my lung hadn't healed since the accident and I was bleeding into my chest cavity. I had to have a "thoracotomy decortication" where they opened up my chest and removed 3 litres of crap from around my left lung and fixed any leaks. Most of it was congealed blood.

Bloody hell it hurts but I'm coming right with an 11 inch scar across my back as a good war story.

Watch those cars ... we bear the brunt of any mishaps.

[p.dath]

Buggar me, you are not having a good run. Even after this much time from the initial accident. Take it easy. Sounds nasty.

[Owl]

Doesn't sound at all mint terbang.:no: Take it easy and heal well dude!:msn-wink:

[PrincessBandit]

For all the "asian" drivers being slated here, on our honeymoon (many many moons, pardon the pun, before we started riding) an off-duty cop pulled into the left side of the road, stopped then as we drove past him - in a rental car (on our honeymoon and all that) - he decided to to turn right without indicating and smacked straight into the side of our car. We got shunted clear across the intersection (T-intersection) and into a BIG post on the opposite corner.

For the life of me I can't actually remember the outcome of it (apart from the fact that neither my husband or I were injured in the crash) in terms of what happened to him etc.

Now, this is not meant to start a great side track of police bashing but simply a reminder that no one is infallible. No one has a monopoly on "bad", careless, ignorant or rude driving or riding.

[Smifffy]

No one has a monopoly on "bad", careless, ignorant or rude driving or riding.


True enough, it may not be a monopoly but the Police do have considerable market representation in that regard.


Doesn't sound good Terbang. Take it easy and heal well.

[Ronin]

True enough, it may not be a monopoly but the Police do have considerable market representation in that regard.




I think if you consider their accident rate on a per kilometre covered basis it would look pretty good no?

Heal quick terbang. If I may be so bold, how is your Daughter and her partner doing?

[Teflon]

Nah that doesnt work, what works tho is to kick off their tail light or mirror as you barely make your "emergency swerve" past them...they tend to remember that much more.

People fuck up without realising it. If someone kicked my mirror off, i'd run the cunt off the road. Accidents do happen.

On the road, size matters. Intimidation and the tough guy act doesn't work.

[miloking]

People fuck up without realising it. If someone kicked my mirror off, i'd run the cunt off the road. Accidents do happen.

On the road, size matters. Intimidation and the tough guy act doesn't work.

Yeah people fuck up, and if you fuck up so much you nearly killed someone ...you loose fucking mirror, fucking fair and realy simple bro...

[baptist]

Just an update on things. On the 20th Dec I collapsed and was raced off to hospital again. I was very short of blood and had to have a transfusion...Bloody hell it hurts but I'm coming right with an 11 inch scar across my back as a good war story.

Get well, I can understand your pain, it does heal, hope you are riding again soon...

[Katman]

Yeah people fuck up, and if you fuck up so much you nearly killed someone ...you loose fucking mirror, fucking fair and realy simple bro...

Fuck you're a dickhead. It's that sort of shit that will lead to a totally innocent motorcyclist being targetted by some irrate car driver as pay back for the wing mirror they lost.

[scumdog]

Yeah people fuck up, and if you fuck up so much you nearly killed someone ...you loose fucking mirror, fucking fair and realy simple bro...


I've smacked the mirrors off all my cars 'cause that way motorcyclists think I'm a crap driver and stay away from me

...if I do a U-turn and wipe them out?

Well they've had fair warning and can't complain....

[marty]

on a lighter note TB - a very nice Indian reg'd G550 was in HLZ over Xmas - full of Bollywood starts looking for properties to buy. had been to ZQN and NSN as well. Big orange and brown flashes across the tail - rego VT-BRS

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj274/toolowtoofast/VT-BRS261210252822529.jpg

[hellokitty]

Hey terbang = I hope you are doing well. How is your daughter?
I often think back on this thread when out riding, thank you :yes: I am sure it has saved my ass more than once!

[scumdog]

Just an update on things. On the 20th Dec I collapsed and was raced off to hospital again. I was very short of blood and had to have a transfusion.

Watch those cars ... we bear the brunt of any mishaps.

Not a good start to 2011, fingers crossed that things only get better,:yes:

All the best and look after yourself.

[iwilde]

I've had more issues with 45+ white men in their hsv's that hate admitting that they dont own the road.

[Katman]

I've had more issues with 45+ white men in their hsv's that hate admitting that they dont own the road.

Sounds like a large number of motorcyclists.

[caseye]

Hope the ongoing effects of this accident have now been rectified.
Your intention in posting this account is admirable and of course it was going to attract attention.

In this case it stopped another rider from making a similar situation worse by simply remembering your story and "stopping' to see what happened next.

For those who asked for advice as to what to do in a similar situation, read what happened to p.dath.

The message is not, damn car drivers, damn asians, damn roads,rights or wrongs or who was at fault? it's "do everything YOU can to avoid getting hurt.

It's Make Sure of your own safety on your bike, do whatever it takes to not be involved in an accident.

Terbang, please don't confuse my messages above as making any negative comment on your accident,you did it all right, right up until she turned across you, that you could not stop, from that point on you were in the hands of the gods.
If you are riding off after a potential accident has been avoided then everything that Terbang, p.dath and katman have said and done here will have been to good effect.

It is exactly that scenario that katman is trying to bring about.
Collective experience, coupled with taking complete responsibility for our own SAFETY, not road rights ( they, road rights, don't stop us getting DEAD)

This thread has evoked some spirited discussion and some very strong opinions and ideas.
I am truely grateful that you and your daughter and her BF are all Ok and that this thread is about an accident, not another biker/s down.

How is the BF holding up, he'd not have been happy seeing you and her going for a burton.

He was right to be indignant and hostile to anyone who just wants to flee an accident scene, unfortunately this driver will never become a better driver for this experience.

Arrogance and ineptitude is thinly disguised by a veneer of politeness and respectability amongst a great many foreign nationals here in NZ.

[schrodingers cat]

My work here is done.

I've done a stack of miles over the last ten days or roads with poor vision. There were quite a few corners that, as I approached them, though to myself "If a tourist comes around the corner on the right (wrong) side of the road I'm pretty much fucked"
All this at moderate speeds and well within my lane.

I agree with your sentiment that it is neessary to ride in such a way that the presumption is that every other road user is out to cause you harm.

Verbally however, your insistance on kicking the injured rider IN EVERY CASE dilutes your message.

"Katman," people think, What a fucking dick he'd be then"

Shit does happen. Good luck to you.

[MarkH]

It is exactly that scenario that katman is trying to bring about.
Collective experience, coupled with taking complete responsibility for our own SAFETY, not road rights ( they, road rights, don't stop us getting DEAD)

That's the main reason I like to read about others misfortunes on this site - so I can think about what happened and what I could do if I found a similar situation unfolding in front of me. I'd rather learn from other people's misfortune than suffer that misfortune myself - if I can.

Reading these threads make me think that even if I'm in a hurry it could be worth exercising a little patience and arriving a minute later than to rush passed someone and get hit so that I don't get to where I'm going at all.

[terbang]

Well really just to finish up this thread I'll fill you in on where it all took me.
After being discharged from hospital, my Aviation doctor told me that if I wanted to live to 110 and (most important) get my aviation medical certificate back, I would have to start some sort of an exercise programme. I did and it hurt like hell too, but it was worth it.
On March third, after being stuck in a depressurization chamber, poked prodded and twisted, I proved my fitness. I mildly surprised the FAA, NZ CAA and also myself to be fit to command a commercial jet just four months after kissing a Mitsubishi 4WD fairly hard. I now have my medical certs back.

As my surgeon said, "when they dig your skeleton up in 3000 years time, they will certainly be baffled at the violence of our times".

My Saudi Masters whipped me back here and I'm currently bouncing between the middle east and Europe. Absolutely stoked to be flying again, albeit with a 27cm scar up my back and a deformed (though working fine) shoulder.

Everyone, including Mrs T have said "now is time to sell those bikes". Hell I've been doing it for 30 odd years, so cant just walk away!
I've been told all sorts of theories about getting back on the horse that threw you and so on.
However as soon as I could, I took my old Cagiva for a good ride just before I came up here. It just felt normal, I wasn't shaking with fear, having flashbacks and stuff like that. In fact I really enjoyed it as I was just doing what Ive been doing for quite a while now. Riding my bike. Though for sure, I'm a fair bit wiser after such a painful lesson and have inevitably changed some of my riding habits..
And Mrs T's thinking is coming around too.

Georgie (girl on the back) had a few tough moments, shes a tall 'leggy' girl who looked great in short skirts and the scar above her knee did her head in for a while. Its healed well now and she has also mended well between her ears too. She has now since gained her pilots licence and will, in the not too distant future, join the ranks of professional pilots. She hasn't ridden on a motorcycle since, but reckons she certainly will do again some time in the future.

Nathan, Geo's boyfriend, never rode his bike again. He sold it immediately and still displays fear at the thought of any of us riding a bike again. He has become the biggest casualty of this incident.

[Toaster]

Great to hear you and your daughter have made good recoveries. Shame the BF took that road and gave in. I am a great believer in getting back on the horse - it is the only way to overcome post crash trauma, but his decision is his own and has to be respected for that.

[darkone]

Sometimes witnessing the suffering of others, especially those you care about can be more traumatic than being injured yourself. The young fella may come round to riding again as time eases the shock, it may also have a lot to do with your daughters attitude to getting back on the bike.

Otherwise, I'm glad to hear you and yours are recovering well and wish you all the best for the future.

[caseye]

terbang absolutely stoked for you and your daughter.Great to hear that you're flying commercially again and in good health.
Your baby girl will be fine and one day she might ride/pillion again.
Her BF has done what he considers to be the right thing and who knows if it means he;s not killed on a motorcycle then maybe he did.
Take care while out there in the great! BIG 3 D world that you inhabit and enjoy those quiet rides when you get the chance.
My 18 yr old daughter has just started being the pillion with her bf, man that hurts, I said no for over a year.Now though, she has all the right gear and they enjoy time together.
I didn't say no because the bf was a bad rider, he's actually a damn good rider but I'm her dad!and I ride, no further reason extended.
Hope to ride with you one day.

[Edbear]

+1 to the above posters. Good to hear things are working out for you all. :yes:

[p.dath]

+1 to the above posters. Good to hear things are working out for you all. :yes:

+2. Normality again.

[YellowDog]

Great thread with a positive outcome :yes:

[Smifffy]

Great news, and obviously you worked bloody hard to get that result. Good on ya.

[baptist]

:wings::woohoo:Thanks for posting the happy ending, shame about the BF but others on here are right, he saw it all and it must have been a real horrific shock... :ride: safe