Preparation for privatising ACC?

[shrub]

Our beloved masters have suggested that we could enjoy lower premiums if we accept lower standards of service: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10685770

My guess is that over the next few months/years we'll see two tiers of ACC cover coming in - a low grade at the kind of premiums we're used to, and the kind of ACC cover we're used to at a high premium. Then a PPP will be announced, probably with an international insurance company, offering something in between, and premiums will be determined by your risk profile in the same way insurance premiums are calculated, or you can exclude cover for specified activities (motorcycling for instance) and get a lower premium.

And the people will be happy because they'll only be paying a little more for a little less.

[FJRider]

or enjoy a lower standard of "service" ... for the same premiums .... :facepalm:

[Swoop]

Nice to see that The Harold has gone from crappy tabloid media, to low-level social engineering.

[mashman]

Have a play with this. The numbers for injuries etc... are collected from CAS. The car numbers are picked out of my ass (ACC document i found estimates 3,000,000) and the bike numbers are plucked out of thin air. But that doesn't matter. I added a few too many motorcycle accidents in the play column too i think. If we all pay the same, we'd all likely benefit :yes:

We get 1 salary. Some of that salary pays for ACC levy on fuel, rego etc... Why not just take what's needed to meet the projected financial forecast straight from the workers account.? Lower admin costs too. Just a thought Mr Smith.

222890

[RiderInBlack]

Our beloved masters have suggested that we could enjoy lower premiums if we accept lower standards of service: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10685770
They are already cutting back on services. Try getting on the list of a Colonoscopy now.

[Mully]

Try getting on the list of a Colonoscopy now.

I almost don't want to know why you want a colonoscopy under ACC.

But then I almist do want to know what sort of accident might require a colonoscopy.....

[Toaster]

Nice to see that The Harold has gone from crappy tabloid media, to low-level social engineering.

Social engineering.... reminds me of the dictator Helegrad riding the wave of economic prosperity to finger the social ingredients around they way they wanted the NZ cake to taste.... albeit bitter in our mouths.

ACC and our no fault scheme is the envy of the world and I know this because I went to a world conference on the industry. Much like the power industry, all it lead to was wealthy shareholder and execs at the cost of service and with the guarantee of ever rising prices to the consumer.

[RiderInBlack]

I almost don't want to know why you want a colonoscopy under ACC.

But then I almist do want to know what sort of accident might require a colonoscopy.....Was referring ta the whole health system in general:facepalm: but there has been cuts in ACC jobbies as well.

[mashman]

Was referring ta the whole health system in general:facepalm: but there has been cuts in ACC jobbies as well.

Do you mean, more cuts, less service, bigger profit? Books look great :blink: as we push towards 2019 :blink:

[shrub]

Nice to see that The Harold has gone from crappy tabloid media, to low-level social engineering.

Bollocks! What is "social engineering" about reporting on the Government's actions? That's the role of the media in a democracy FFS - would you prefer they didn't mention anything the government did that was the slightest bit contentious?

And the Herald is probably the least "tabloid" of any of our media.

[shrub]

Social engineering.... reminds me of the dictator Helegrad riding the wave of economic prosperity to finger the social ingredients around they way they wanted the NZ cake to taste.... albeit bitter in our mouths.

ACC and our no fault scheme is the envy of the world and I know this because I went to a world conference on the industry. Much like the power industry, all it lead to was wealthy shareholder and execs at the cost of service and with the guarantee of ever rising prices to the consumer.

I agree, our no fault scheme is the envy of the world which is why the Nats want to sell it, but first they need to prepare it by getting rid of high risk and low value (to them) clients by pushing up their ACC levies. Yes, motorcyclists are of low value to the Nats and they don't respect our choice because they see no practical sense in it. Face it, we're a nation that is run by accountants and bankers where everything has a cost and nothing has a value.

[Swoop]

Bollocks! What is "social engineering" about reporting on the Government's actions? That's the role of the media in a democracy FFS - would you prefer they didn't mention anything the government did that was the slightest bit contentious?

And the Herald is probably the least "tabloid" of any of our media.
I refer to their "two drinks max" campaign. The gubbinment has stated what the law is, then reviewed the law and re-stated what the law is. The Harold seems determined to push their own agenda in this matter though...

As for the rest of their reporting, standards really need to be raised.

[shrub]

I refer to their "two drinks max" campaign. The gubbinment has stated what the law is, then reviewed the law and re-stated what the law is. The Harold seems determined to push their own agenda in this matter though...

As for the rest of their reporting, standards really need to be raised.

But this thread isn't about 2 drinks max, it's a completely different subject - you're hiding behind a strawman argument.

[Swoop]

But this thread isn't about 2 drinks max, it's a completely different subject - you're hiding behind a strawman argument.
That is their latest campaign.

With ACC, just look at the options they are asking on the poll.
Lower levies for reduced service?
Where is the option of "no change to ACC"?

Looks like a leading question/poll really.

[shrub]

That is their latest campaign.

With ACC, just look at the options they are asking on the poll.
Lower levies for reduced service?
Where is the option of "no change to ACC"?

Looks like a leading question/poll really.

OK, you present a compelling argument - the poll on the herald was flawed, therefore National should sell ACC and we should enjoy the raise in our levies because profit is being made and profit is always good. Happy?

Seriously, the argument is not about the validity or otherwise of some low grade poll but about the carefully choreohraphed moves to prepare ACC for sale. Can you debate the topic please?

[mashman]

I agree, our no fault scheme is the envy of the world which is why the Nats want to sell it, but first they need to prepare it by getting rid of high risk and low value (to them) clients by pushing up their ACC levies. Yes, motorcyclists are of low value to the Nats and they don't respect our choice because they see no practical sense in it. Face it, we're a nation that is run by accountants and bankers where everything has a cost and nothing has a value.

Pretty much agree with all of that. Having said that, we don't have a no fault scheme. If we did we would have a single levy. We don't, we have levies for employers, levies for workers, levies for road users (sometimes all the same person :yes:). The fact that we have individual levies, based on a risk profile, proves that the scheme is fault based. You've had faults, they assign risk. Minus 1 in the risk profile column for your user group... It's fucked up and we're pushing further and further away from it with every round of submissions.

[avgas]

I will spend my extra money on new tyres for the bike I think.

You forgot the good thing about privatization......Competition.
Competition drives down price.

Who gives a fuck about standard of service. ACC were shit before and will be shit after. Therefore they will also be bottom dollar.

[Banditbandit]

I will spend my extra money on new tyres for the bike I think.

You forgot the good thing about privatization......Competition.
Competition drives down price.

Who gives a fuck about standard of service. ACC were shit before and will be shit after. Therefore they will also be bottom dollar.

Bwhahahaha ... What a rosie view of capitalism .. when did competition drive down the price of, say, petrol for example? Or electricity?

[shrub]

Bwhahahaha ... What a rosie view of capitalism .. when did competition drive down the price of, say, petrol for example? Or electricity?

Look, will you lay off all this realism? Privatisation is AWESOME and makes everything cheaper because all a business owner wants to do is sell their products or services cheaper than anyone else. Have you not been listening to Our Masters?

[SPman]

I will spend my extra money on new tyres for the bike I think.

You forgot the good thing about privatization......Competition.
Competition drives down price.

Who gives a fuck about standard of service. ACC were shit before and will be shit after. Therefore they will also be bottom dollar.
If you want shit private cover - go to the USA
Privatisation will bear as much or more than the market will bear and give you the minimum services it can get away with.
In that regard, ACC is well down the track

[Ocean1]

Friend of a friend… is an American. And, as it happens, a good old fashioned billionaire. Lives here with his Kiwi wife.

A year or so ago he was involved in a road accident here, broke some important bits of his spine, amongst other things. He’s coming right, can walk pretty good, still a bit of pain.

He is full of praise for our health system, root and branch. He was explaining how things would have worked in ‘Murka. First, there would have been a letter from his insurance company’s lawyers. That’s it. No medical correspondence would be entered into whatsoever. All of the remaining activities regarding health problems stemming from his accident would have one simple goal: acquire access to as much of his substantial fortune as possible.

In short: he would not have had the automatic care one might expect for one with access to such McDuck-like resources, he wouldn’t even have had the care New Zealand afforded him. He would also in fact, (bizarrely) be both bankrupt, (in the USA) and paying well over the market rates for whatever surgical resurrection might be available in either South America or Europe.

That’s all. Just a reminder that we have arguably the best health system in the world. Certainly the best in terms of bang for the health buck, by the length of the back straight.




And yes, NZ Inc is substantially better off for it’s dealings with him.

[bogan]

That’s all. Just a reminder that we have arguably the best health system in the world. Certainly the best in terms of bang for the health buck, by the length of the back straight.

Which begs the question why? surely TPTB know this, yet are trying to change it anyway. Know thy enemy, then we can fuck em up good and proper :yes:

[Swoop]

Which begs the question why? surely TPTB know this, yet are trying to change it anyway.
The basic root of all evil... Money.
For someone or some corporate entity... "somewhere".

ACC is a good system. It does need some "tweaks" however.

[shrub]

Which begs the question why? surely TPTB know this, yet are trying to change it anyway. Know thy enemy, then we can fuck em up good and proper :yes:

Because they have an undying faith in free-market economics. They believe (despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary) that privatisation is ultimately the best solution for everything. They want to transfer ACC into the hands of the private sector, but as it is now it wouldn't generate a profit for the shareholders. It delivers (or used to deliver) an outstanding service to the consumers, but would be simply unprofitable. It breaks even and is self sustaining but that isn't enough.

[bogan]

Because they have an undying faith in free-market economics. They believe (despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary) that privatisation is ultimately the best solution for everything. They want to transfer ACC into the hands of the private sector, but as it is now it wouldn't generate a profit for the shareholders. It delivers (or used to deliver) an outstanding service to the consumers, but would be simply unprofitable. It breaks even and is self sustaining but that isn't enough.

that does sound about right, though you'd think labour would be a bit more opposed to it in that case.

[shrub]

that does sound about right, though you'd think labour would be a bit more opposed to it in that case.

Labour? I remember them, used to be a credible centre left party. Kind of National Lite now.

[Banditbandit]

Look, will you lay off all this realism? Privatisation is AWESOME and makes everything cheaper because all a business owner wants to do is sell their products or services cheaper than anyone else. Have you not been listening to Our Masters?

Naaa ... I don't listen ... and they are NOT my masters ...

[Banditbandit]

Labour? I remember them, used to be a credible centre left party. Kind of National Lite now.

Jeez .... they were a credible centre-left party in the early 1970s .. and a really credible leftwing party in the 1930s ...

Bunch of wimpy capitalists-with-a-conscience for some time now ...

Where's the leftwing party with some balls gone ?

[SPman]

Jeez .... they were a credible centre-left party in the early 1970s .. and a really credible leftwing party in the 1930s ...

Bunch of wimpy capitalists-with-a-conscience for some time now ...

Where's the leftwing party with some balls gone ?

far far away........captured by accountants, lawyers, and teachers, whose interface with the real world is at odds with the reality endured by most of the populace......and Goff making "Left Wing Lite" noises won't bring them back as an effective force, either.....

[Ocean1]

Which begs the question why? surely TPTB know this, yet are trying to change it anyway.

Dunno. In spite of fuzzy feelings and data to the contrary it may very well be that we can't afford it. I'd love to refute that, but as you're aware it's a tad tricky getting one's hands on clean raw data.

'Nuther thing: the number of medical interventions available on the ACC ticket has increased dramatically over the years. Just to stir a hornet's nest: Herceptin. We fund that now. Yay. But consider: As a direct result of that decision someone, somewhere, with a better claim for funding isn’t getting it.

Also: the number and cost of possible health procedures has soared beyond belief compared to what the system was originally set up for.

[RiderInBlack]

Dunno. In spite of fuzzy feelings and data to the contrary it may very well be that we can't afford it. I'd love to refute that, but as you're aware it's a tad tricky getting one's hands on clean raw data.Mmm hard to beleave that the care is unaffordable as long as ACC shows yearly Profits over a Billion Dollars per year. ACC Broke, yer right:apint:

[Clockwork]

Which begs the question why? surely TPTB know this, yet are trying to change it anyway.

Because in its present form it provides less opportunity for profits for the private sector. Simple as that really.

[shrub]

Because in its present form it provides less opportunity for profits for the private sector. Simple as that really.

Especially with high risk clients like motorcyclists. Seriously, it will be a lot harder to sell when there are 100,000 motorcyclists all about to have crashes and claim on ACC (or so Our Beloved Masters believe).

[SPman]

Regardless - it's still better than 99% of health care options, world wide......I wish we had it here....

[mashman]

Regardless - it's still better than 99% of health care options, world wide......I wish we had it here....

That 99% had Woodhouse Principled health care systems once. They were sold off to "cover" the wealth of their populations. Now i do find that ironic. But that's a decision to be made by every person in the country :yes: