Registration plate not displayed in correct manner

[johnben2]

REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER

Hi, sorry if this is going around old visited threads, but I did a huge search last night and couldn’t find it... or any similar...
I have been told that such a thread exists and someone has had the same issue as my self... apparently it went to court and he got off... I’d like to see the thread or circumstances... if it’s true.

Also don’t think this just relates to side mount number plates, it could also easily be tail tidy and angled plates...

I have been pulled over by the police on several occasions and nothing has been bought up... just doing checks they say... so off I go...
Anyway this time... I was on the way to a charity ride with a couple of young riders, I was riding behind one who had a learners licence and “L” plate on his bike, on his 1st motorway extrusion south, we were riding at the reduced required speed in the left lanes of the motorway doing absolutely nothing wrong.
I felt I was pulled over for no reason, and initially the officer wouldn’t confirm why, he had followed me for some time, on the back of previously being stopped for nothing caused me to be anxious, and I started to feel discriminated against. And yes, I do also realise a police officer can require me to stop for a roadside vehicle check at any time.
It was only after a period of time and thought he mentioned why, he then took some photos and mentioned that he would consider action, he didn’t like the way my plate was fixed... and where.
It’s a side mount plate on a custom Sportster I have just finished building...
Now, there are many 100’s maybe 1000’s of motorcycles, boat trailers, trailers and trucks in New Zealand with plates mounted this way....

Anyway a ticket was issued and posted out, I wrote in explaining

I have recently finished rebuilding this motorcycle, 26th August 2010, I have had motorcycles for 35 years and am a motorcycle enthusiast not a gang member, have never been one and never will, since completion of this motorcycle I have been pulled over several times by the Police and there have not been any issues, just checks, no issue had never been raised.
During this motorcycle build I have been sure to see that it has meet the law as to compliance for LVV Certification and WOF regs, in which it has both, I had thought I had followed all the requirements to the correct procedures. The company who manufactured the part for me has been building and modifying motorcycles for over 25 years that I know of; at the time of build there was no question of clarity of the number plate... to display in a prescribed manner.
During the LVV Certification and WOF there was also no question on the plate, to display in a prescribed manner.
My whole base line on building this motorcycle unlike some out there is that I wanted it legal so I didn’t have any problem... that is why I thoroughly pursued and complied with LVV Certification, a WOF and Registration.
Also quoting such legislation we found like...
NZ Transport Agency web site; Motorcycle requirements:

In addition to the warrant of fitness, a motorcycle must display a current licence label and a number plate on the back that can be clearly seen

But they have rejected my explanation and want to pursue it and responded with,

Transport (VRL) notice 1995
6 Affixing of registration plates (other than trade plates)
• Registration plates issued for a motor vehicle shall be displayed as follows:
o (a) in the case of a motor vehicle other than a motor vehicle of any of the kinds specified in paragraph (b), one plate shall be displayed on the front of the vehicle and one plate shall be displayed on the rear of the vehicle, and both plates shall be in an upright position and so displayed that every letter, figure, and distinguishing mark on the plate is easily visible:
(b) In the case of any motorcycle, moped, tractor, or trailer, one plate shall be displayed on the rear of the vehicle in an upright position and so displayed that every letter, figure, and distinguishing mark on the plate is easily visible

(What is upright)

Which is on a NZ Government web site separate to LVV Certification and WOF regs and NZ Transport Agency legislation...
It would be too easy to have everything in one place?!!

Anyway, can anyone help me find this thread or have any information pertaining to such... it will affect many if this is their latest campaign to attack motorcycles...

:facepalm:

[Jantar]

Its also discussed in http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/124717-Number-plates

I did consider merging the two threads, but this one (side mount) seems particular to custom cruisers.

My amatuer reading of the legislation is that as long as the plate is visible and readable from the rear at an angle of 45 degrees from either side then it would be legal. I have seen plates on some HDs that wouldn't meet that criteria.

[johnben2]

Fantastic.. thanks for that..

but the debate still remains... as apart from safety and a OSH letter no one seems to have resolved this issue?

spose the main point would be? the wording upright...

upright is to me not layed back. so its easily seen... not portrait or landscape
mine is upright in my mind

any laywers here?

:shutup:

[kiwifruit]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/54716-Number-plate-mounting-is-this-quot-legal

[pzkpfw]

(I'm no lawyer, but... at first I thought the same about "upright", thinking a plate that's mounted sideways met that criteria. But then I figured, by the same criteria , this becomes an issue...

As usual, the law's an ass.)

[Hoon]

upright is to me not layed back. so its easily seen... not portrait or landscape
mine is upright in my mind:shutup:

Sorry dude disagree with you. Upright is simply upright in every sense of the word. You've chosen to accept only a partial definition of upright in a single axis only, and blissfully ignoring the others.
Its like telling a buyer "Yep she runs sweet as mate" but omitting "only under 4000rpm".

By your definition you are also claiming it is legal to mount a plate upside down as long as it is not layed back. (bah beaten to it...)

[Hoon]

Now if you could buy vertical plates i.e.

H
O
O
N

...then you'd be sweet.

[neels]

Sounds like you got a cop with nothing better to do, who wanted to justify the time he spent stopping you.

I had a similar thing many years ago on my car, it had the old black/silver plate with the numbers painted red, got stopped numerous times with no problem then one day a cop ticketed me for it because apparently it wasn't legal.

Or perhaps they're just preparing for the introduction of automatic plate recognition cameras, and they can't deal with plates mounted other than horizontal?

[HQfiend]

Or perhaps they're just preparing for the introduction of automatic plate recognition cameras, and they can't deal with plates mounted other than horizontal?

Definitely! Already in service in Auckland and Wellington.

So this begs the question, how do the boy racers get away with their sloping plates front and rear?
Also to my mind, plates have to be visible at 22 degrees from the side (speed camera angle).

[scumdog]

REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER

:facepalm:

Sorry to hear that, what a crock of shit eh!:angry:

[Cr1MiNaL]

Thought what a load of bollocks I can't even remember how many of these exact charges I have goten off... 4 -5 at least. Win it every time. Half the time they wont show up, other half of the time the assistant JP will throw it out before it even gets in front of a judge and he will just say its thrown out you may go, the only one time it went to court I took pics as normal and judge took one look at it, asked the cop for an explanation and threw it out - I didn't even have to plead my case. Fight it, still its a day off work.:facepalm: continue to use ur plates, be calm, not rude, obey, don't pull over immediately wave and tell him you will when its safe, above all dont act like a pussy, know the law and ur rights and go ride ur custom cruiser. I'm all for standing out in a crowd.

[AllanB]

(b) In the case of any motorcycle, moped, tractor, or trailer, one plate shall be displayed on the rear of the vehicle in an upright position and so displayed that every letter, figure, and distinguishing mark on the plate is easily visible


With vertical mount plates the issue will be visibility from the opposide side being restricted by the rear wheel.

However - I can go to my Harley dealer and purchase a NEW Sporty 48 that has a factory side mount plate.

Also - police don't really need a reason to pull you - they can just ask for a documentation check and go from there. Yours sounds like he may have had a bad day. Darn shame he did not issue a 'warning'.

Hey - post some pictures of your HD - sounds interesting.

[Jdogg]

Or perhaps they're just preparing for the introduction of automatic plate recognition cameras, and they can't deal with plates mounted other than horizontal?

Preparing?? already in use......

http://www.3news.co.nz/New-crime-fighting-tech-raises-privacy-concerns/tabid/423/articleID/166858/Default.aspx

[Patrick]

LOL... Bleeding heart civil libertarians whinging again....:shutup:

Had it here on Monday, just for the day - what a great thing to have. No stolen vehicles, but a few disqually drivers.... disqually coz they were pissed!

BUt hey, the civil libertarians can moan all they like - I like the idea of keeping piss heads off MY roads. And finding stolen stuff....:woohoo:

[tigertim20]

Its also discussed in http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/124717-Number-plates

I did consider merging the two threads, but this one (side mount) seems particular to custom cruisers.

My amatuer reading of the legislation is that as long as the plate is visible and readable from the rear at an angle of 45 degrees from either side then it would be legal. I have seen plates on some HDs that wouldn't meet that criteria.

I beleive the basic requirements are as follows:
must be clearly visible from directly behind.
the edges of the plate must be parallel to the ground.
so staight up and down, or laying long ways is fine, as long as it isnt at a 45 degree angle, from bottom left to top right. so
_ is fint
l is fine
/ is NOT fine.

go to court, tell him to get fucked, by gently ramming the relative legislation up his arse.

[johnben2]

cheers for that guys, yep comfirms my thoughts, yep i'm taking it to court....
i'm pissed...

his definition of faild to display regristration plate in prescribed manner, wrote in and they arn't letting me off..

quoted upright and seen clearly from the rear.... (not side FOOL)

mine is a cruser with side mounted plate, sideways, isnt in the description of upright.. so i'm taking it to court...

i spoke to Wof testing at VTNZ and LVV testing for low volume modified today and they have nothing in their regs, WoF said 20% boat trailers are like that! that they get through in albany.... they both will get back to me and are happy to do me a report, they both are fine giving passes without a problem....for this.

read kiwifruits dads plight, (the same) have you a case number for your dads win that can be used as a precident?

the description in all dictonarys reads similar to this..

up•right –adjective
1.
erect or vertical, as in position or posture.
2.
raised or directed vertically or upward.
3.
adhering to rectitude; righteous, honest, or just: an upright person.
4.
being in accord with what is right: upright dealings.
–noun
5.
the state of being upright or vertical.
6.
something standing erect or vertical, as a piece of timber.
7.
an upright piano.
8.
Usually, uprights. Chiefly Football . the goalposts.
–adverb
9.
in an upright position or direction; vertically.


nothing about letters, books etc

just as tigertim20 said

_ is fine
l is fine
/ is NOT fine.


so here i go for all the motorcyclists, trailer, horse float and boat people out there...

BAD COP!

:sick:

[Vinz0r]

Good luck sir!

[Jantar]

.... i spoke to Wof testing at VTNZ and LVV testing for low volume modified today and they have nothing in their regs, ....
Maybe that's because there is no requirement for a vehicle to even display any registration for WoF purposes. You must be able to show that the vehicle does in fact have a registration plate, but there is nowhere that says it must be dispalyed to get a WoF.

However a WoF is required for registration.

[Hiflyer]

Maybe that's because there is no requirement for a vehicle to even display any registration for WoF purposes. You must be able to show that the vehicle does in fact have a registration plate, but there is nowhere that says it must be dispalyed to get a WoF.

However a WoF is required for registration.

Geez what a killbuzz ;)

I get what you mean, BUT I would be interested to see how many times trailers get pulled over for it.

Never owned one myself so I have no idea.

It could be viewed as picking on motorcyclists/boy racer cars.



please take note that I said could, not that it IS

[johnben2]

Geez what a killbuzz ;) It could be viewed as picking on motorcyclists/boy racer cars. please take note that I said could, not that it IS

no.... not could... is! :shit:

cheers for the comments...

starting to look at this as fun.. i want to get it right.

:scooter:

[waynzz7]

Do you have a pic you can post of your plate currently?? Wondering about the plate on my DRZ now?? Don't want to give 'the man' any more money than I need 2..Good luck!

[ukusa]

Good to see someone with the perseverance to see something like this through court. Present the case with evidence that your not alone, take as many photos as you can of other vehicles (trailers/bikes etc) with plates in similar positions.
If our cops can't tilt their heads to read a plate, maybe they should have failed the fitness test.

[Supertwin Don]

Guys, you are talking semantics here, and I wonder if you're missing a point -

(b) In the case of any motorcycle, moped, tractor, or trailer, one plate shall be displayed on the rear of the vehicle in an upright position and so displayed that every letter, figure, and distinguishing mark on the plate is easily visible

to my mind, a side mount is not "on the rear" of the vehicle, irrespective if it is vertical or horizontal. (and this would apply to trailers as well)

[scumdog]

Guys, you are talking semantics here, and I wonder if you're missing a point -

(b) In the case of any motorcycle, moped, tractor, or trailer, one plate shall be displayed on the rear of the vehicle in an upright position and so displayed that every letter, figure, and distinguishing mark on the plate is easily visible

to my mind, a side mount is not "on the rear" of the vehicle, irrespective if it is vertical or horizontal. (and this would apply to trailers as well)


Hell, you would open a can of worms there if that was enforced...:blink:

Even a factory mount is not exaztly at the rear of the bike - it is above and forward of the most rear-ward part of the bike on most of the cruiser ones for a start.

But 8 out of 10 for troll-attempt.

[nodrog]

I was pulled over the other day. When I asked why, the reply was "because I could not see your number plate from the side" (he was In a petrol staton when I rode by, and my plate is rear facing and cleary visible from behind). I replied "So what? Car number plates arent visible from the side". He then mumbled something, and let me on my way.

Fanny.

[avgas]

Hell, you would open a can of worms there if that was enforced...:blink:

Even a factory mount is not exaztly at the rear of the bike - it is above and forward of the most rear-ward part of the bike on most of the cruiser ones for a start.

But 8 out of 10 for troll-attempt.
Hate to say it......but I think he is right scummy.
Even on cruisers - it is on the rear section of the vehicle, viewable from both sides at 60 deg and viewable at 60 degrees above vertical (which from recall was the euro law that everyone stole).
There for it does not have to be the most 'rear' bit of the bike, but has to be viewable from the rear profile (the back bit).

The plate in question can not be seen from the right hand side, so therefore is not on the rear.

Imagine if you will if you headlight is down where you left knee was. This would not be the front as traffic to the right of you could not see it.

[Supertwin Don]

My next comment is based on memories of investigating the above rules 25 years ago when I was building a chop - nearly all modern sports bikes would not comply with the regs on rear mudguard - "to prevent, as far as practical, material from being thrown upwards from the rear wheel"

And I'll bet there are a number of other regs that have never been updated OR RESCINDED which could be used to prosecute bikers - even on "factory" customs :-)

wasp nest, stick and prod come to mind.

[Swoop]

I'll bet there are a number of other regs that have never been updated OR RESCINDED...
Why would a politician get rid of a law? They get paid to write them - so "the more the merrier" right???:blink::shit::thud:

[johnben2]

Cheers guys for the thoughts and comments, yes it will be interesting, there are many things to take into account.

I have spoken to a very helpful person who is knowledgeable about the procedures I need to take and on this instance is willing to guide me through the process with the correct way to approach (not Jon getting upset) and present the right and relevant information at the correct and appropriate time.

it may take many months but at the end i will post the outcome, cant do anything other than that apart from ride the bike....

and thank you all again for the comments and links, this site has alot of good stuff if you can search it out.

We will be taking this carefully one step at a time...

[R-Soul]

Its also discussed in http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/124717-Number-plates

I did consider merging the two threads, but this one (side mount) seems particular to custom cruisers.

My amatuer reading of the legislation is that as long as the plate is visible and readable from the rear at an angle of 45 degrees from either side then it would be legal. I have seen plates on some HDs that wouldn't meet that criteria.

Therein lies the problem I think. If it si facing to one side, it will not be readable at an angle to 45 dgerees to the other side.

[scumdog]

Imagine if you will if you headlight is down where you left knee was. This would not be the front as traffic to the right of you could not see it.

Sorta like an E-type Jag??:blink:

[TimeOut]

My next comment is based on memories of investigating the above rules 25 years ago when I was building a chop - nearly all modern sports bikes would not comply with the regs on rear mudguard - "to prevent, as far as practical, material from being thrown upwards from the rear wheel"

And I'll bet there are a number of other regs that have never been updated OR RESCINDED which could be used to prosecute bikers - even on "factory" customs :-)

wasp nest, stick and prod come to mind.


Ah but a short mudguard does get rid of tailgater's, my son only has to find a bit of grit with a nice sticky tyre to get them to back off

[R-Soul]

Lets put it in clear terms: The government wants to be able to put speed cameras anywhere behind you, and be able to read your license plate. If you dont put it where they can see it, they will fine you until you do....

[imdying]

I think that about sums it up. So long as the Police and their cameras can see it, nice and horizontal so their image doohickies can read it, they'll be happy.

[johnben2]

Ticket; REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER

Honestly, I was pissed, I had done my bike legal and I wasn’t going to pay $200 if it meant I was admitting I was wrong! Bugger it, I’m off to Court!

The matter before the court is one of, that you committed an offence under s 17 (a) Transport (Vehicle and Driver Registration and Licensing) Act 1986 and that you did use a motor vehicle on which the registration plate or number plate was not displayed in the correct manner.

Law says... (Lots but this is the guts) In the case of any motorcycle, moped, tractor, or trailer, one plate shall be displayed on the rear of the vehicle in an upright position and so displayed that every letter, figure, and distinguishing mark on the plate is easily visible

There were three things they could try for, they were not too disclosing prior to my case as to which it was;
1. Not clearly seen, obstructed
2. Not in an upright position
3. Not at the rear of the motorcycle

Basics of my argument:
That it was as to the rear of the vehicle as possible, that was safe and visible, also that there is law that covers dangerous fittings and that mounted high the number plate could be such as it is thin and has an un-safe edge.

That there is no description in law that states that number plates have to be mounted any which way other that upright, which in terminology is vertical or erect (check any Dictionary) mine was on a slight angle to allow the light to focus on it better, although I’d mount it better (still the same but more upright) next time. (Nothing about letters).

I had taken the bike through the northern toll road and it showed up on my work bill, so was easily read (sideways) but they omitted that as I couldn’t prove I didn’t change it for the exercise! (Learn from that one, get a picture (might even get a speed camera one, you get a picture then, if you win, can that be claimed back as costs?)

That the vehicle had Rego, Cert and WoF, that this fell under none of those, none of these people advised me there was something wrong, how would I as Joe Blogs Know the Law, I had a letter from the Cert and WoF guys saying such. It seems that it is only individual interpretation under the law (police) (learn from that one)

I submitted photos of trailers (boat and horse), trucks, motorcycles etc with sideway mounted plates, new and old, also NZ Police BMW’s with recessed obstructed plates from the same angle (although now I’ve noticed they have sorted that one), police tried to omit these by saying a whole lot of stuff but basically a parting comment was along the lines, were going to stop and deal with them, given the time! (Bet that just means bikes)
There was a lot more too it, but that’s the basics…

By the way, there is nothing about 45⁰ or angle viewing for plates, that’s just lighting laws.

All in all, I represented myself, it took 2 ½ hours but many tens of hours prep.

The decision; The Court decision is the case was not proved beyond reasonable doubt, thus the defendant is discharged.

*** I won ***


If you get a ticket, you have 28 days to write in to appeal; all you can do is write in explaining:

1. It’s as far to the rear and as safely fitted as possible.
2. That you have a WoF and Rego, they didn’t stipulate any issues as to mounting plates.
3. That it’s fitted in an upright manner and that it can be easily seen from the rear of the vehicle.
4. And feel free to also list my case precedent: New Zealand Police V Pearson DC AK CRI-2010-004-021568

Now take this advice, it’s a precedent set in the District Court, it’s not very high like the Supreme or High court but the police tried to use a DC precedent against me in there and it didn’t hold.

And yes! I will continue to mount my number plates this way in the future.

Just don’t get pissy at the officer for pulling you!

Remember you’re fighting your own tax dollars and NZ’s biggest patched gang

Best of luck & God Speed.

[rastuscat]

All that drama.

Wouldn't it have just been better to have mounted it the way the law intended in the first place?

Still, seems some folk have so much time on their hands.

[oneofsix]

All that drama.

Wouldn't it have just been better to have mounted it the way the law intended in the first place?

Still, seems some folk have so much time on their hands.

Seems he did, or at the very least NZ's largest patched gang couldn't prove he didn't. Instead of not getting pissy with the officer perhaps he should have offered donuts :lol:

[rastuscat]

Interesting point 1/6

When the law is written they usually start with a concept. Like, plates on the rearmost point of motorcycles where it can be clearly seen by people standing behind the bike or off to either side.

Then they have to start adding in all the clauses to cover off all the possible technical smart arses who might put the plate, say, lying down flat, or upside down.

Quite often they finish writing the law, imagining that it does the trick. They move on, leaving interpretation to the police, the public, the courts, KB, al sorts. Then folk like you and I get to interpret the law depending on our own individual case.

Another classy law is the cellphone one.

I can drive down the road browsing through the music on my iPod, but I can't do exactly the same thing with the music on my iPhone. Brilliant piece of law that. Now, when the wrote the law, did they ever really intend that to happen? Is the Popo really supposed to know the difference between an iPod, an iPhone, even an iPhone with no SIM card, which makes it legal.

No, it's left to the broad gray stripe of interpretation, where Joe Public expects that his interpretation is right, the Popos think theirs is right, and the courts get to decide,whether they are right or not.

On the up side, it gives us something to grumble about. Lazy law wastes a lot of time though.

One thing for sure, if enough of us kick the arse out of the law, it'll become political, and we will all get hammered by the next draconian version.

I guess the issue comes down to what the intent of the law was in the first place. I'd suggest that having a look at where the vast majority of motorcycle plates are mounted would be a clue.

[5150]

Is the Popo really supposed to know the difference between an iPod, an iPhone,



In one well publicised case they couldn't even tell a difference between celly and a Moro bar :killingme

[oneofsix]

Interesting point 1/6

When the law is written they usually start with a concept. Like, plates on the rearmost point of motorcycles where it can be clearly seen by people standing behind the bike or off to either side.

Then they have to start adding in all the clauses to cover off all the possible technical smart arses who might put the plate, say, lying down flat, or upside down.

Quite often they finish writing the law, imagining that it does the trick. They move on, leaving interpretation to the police, the public, the courts, KB, al sorts. Then folk like you and I get to interpret the law depending on our own individual case.

Another classy law is the cellphone one.

I can drive down the road browsing through the music on my iPod, but I can't do exactly the same thing with the music on my iPhone. Brilliant piece of law that. Now, when the wrote the law, did they ever really intend tha to happen?

No, it's left to the broad gray stripe of interpretation, where Joe Public expects that his interpretation is right, the Popos think theirs is right, and the courts get to decide,whether they are right or not.

On the up side, it gives us something to grumble about. Lazy law wastes a lot of time though.

One thing for sure, if enough of us kick the arse out of the law, it'll become political, and we will all get hammered by the next draconian version.

I guess the issue comes down to what the intent of the law was in the first place. I'd suggest that having a look at where the vast majority of motorcycle plates are mounted would be a clue.
Agreed just mount it in the usual manner in the usual place then no problem or time wasting but we are individuals and NZer's are very individualistic and as long as they are with in the law then they can do it.
law vs legislation. Your use of the cellphone example is a good one, another case of the govt. not listening, they were warned that their knee jerk legislation was poorly written and targeted especially as there were already legislation covering lack of control of the vehicle.
If the plate was readable by the toll camera what was the problem? It may not have fitted my or your understanding but obviously was readable, some of the mountings are taking the piss a bit and one I've seen on a sports bike was totally unreadable.
But why is it the questionable action is around bike when every ride I see cars with unreadable number plates, and I've given up on trucks but really a bike with an unreadable plate. Is there a bit of selective targeting going on? Every car with a bike rack over the plate should have been pulled at least once by now and yet most of the drivers wouldn't even know they were breaking the law.

[rastuscat]

In one well publicised case they couldn't even tell a difference between celly and a Moro bar :killingme

Yeah, saw that one. He'd have been okay if it had been a Pixie Caramel.

[5150]

Yeah, saw that one. He'd have been okay if it had been a Pixie Caramel.

or a doughnut ;)

[rastuscat]

But why is it the questionable action is around bike when every ride I see cars with unreadable number plates, and I've given up on trucks but really a bike with an unreadable plate. Is there a bit of selective targeting going on?

Everyone who gets ticketed sees so many other people doing exactly the same thing, it makes them feel that they are being picked on. truck drivers feel picked on, so do boy racers, so do ethnic minorities, so do middle aged white males.


car with a bike rack over the plate should have been pulled at least once by now and yet most of the drivers wouldn't even know they were breaking the law.

Hell, that's the best example, should have thought of that.

For decades people have been obscuring plates, mostly unintentionally. Bikes carriers are a classic case. Josephine Average wants to take the kids to school, and carries their bikes on the towbar rack she bought from the ABC Bike shop. Cop stops her, and writes her a ticket for having an obscured plate. Whose fault is that? The Popos? The bike shops? The manufacturer of the rack?

A couple of years back the gubbermint wanted to come down on the boy racers who were obscuring their plates to avoid being tracked down after they took off from the cops. The offence got given demerit points, and a directive came down that we were to hammer obscured plates. Thing is, there are 10 Jospehines with obscured plates to every boy racer with one. Broad brush law to deal with a very small issue.

Thing is, Josephine now can buy a third plate, one to fix on the rear of the bike rack, so it can comply with the law. But nobody ever told Josephine that. So she stacks the bikes onto the car, sets off, having no idea that she might be subject to a nasty fine and demerits.

If there was a quota, I could fill it every day before I had driven 400 metres from the Snake Pit. :crazy:

[oneofsix]

For decades people have been obscuring plates, mostly unintentionally. Bikes carriers are a classic case. Josephine Average wants to take the kids to school, and carries their bikes on the towbar rack she bought from the ABC Bike shop. Cop stops her, and writes her a ticket for having an obscured plate. Whose fault is that? The Popos? The bike shops? The manufacturer of the rack?
Pretty obvious the plate is not meant to be obscured. Up to Josephine to take it up with the bike shop for not warning her. Some bike shops even sell little white write ons to hang off the racks so its not like they don't know but i wouldn't trust the school leaver or apprentice to think to warn Josephine. Perhaps a case for warn once, ticket next time.




Thing is, Josephine now can buy a third plate, one to fix on the rear of the bike rack, so it can comply with the law. But nobody ever told Josephine that. So she stacks the bikes onto the car, sets off, having no idea that she might be subject to a nasty fine and demerits.
Only found out about that little gem of a third plate through the letters to the AA mag. The AA didn't mention it, it was another member using the letters to the editor a bit like a forum. :2thumbsup to the letter writer. Wonder if the bike shops and cycle clubs know about that and do the verious clubs bother to inform their members?



If there was a quota, I could fill it every day before I had driven 400 metres from the Snake Pit. :crazy:
Well if the donut account ever needs a top up ;)

[5150]

Well if the donut account ever needs a top up ;)

Hence now I carry Dunkin Donut vouchers as bribe currency just for these occasions :cool:

[oneofsix]

Hence now I carry Dunkin Donut vouchers as bribe currency just for these occasions :cool:

:2thumbsup great idea. Been trying to work out how to carry a six pack of donuts and keep them fresh, no need to with vouchers :cool:

[Clockwork]

If there was a quota...

Noice
:niceone::msn-wink::whistle:

[manxkiwi]

People have mentioned push bike racks. I've seen quite a number of vehicles where the tow ball itself is right over the plate! Don't know how they even get a warrant, let alone ticketed every few k's!!? I think they just don't look/notice on an average 4 wheeler.

[rastuscat]

People have mentioned push bike racks. I've seen quite a number of vehicles where the tow ball itself is right over the plate! Don't know how they even get a warrant, let alone ticketed every few k's!!? I think they just don't look/notice on an average 4 wheeler.

Same ol' chestnut.

WoF checks don't include a number of things that people think they do.

Including the legal obscurity of the number plate.

So, I stop a car for an obscured plate. Driver whines "But it's got a warrant". I sez "That's not part of the warrant check" and I endz up being the bad guy.

Ah well, natural justice, I guess. :argh:

[oneofsix]

Same ol' chestnut.

WoF checks don't include a number of things that people think they do.

Including the legal obscurity of the number plate.

So, I stop a car for an obscured plate. Driver whines "But it's got a warrant". I sez "That's not part of the warrant check" and I endz up being the bad guy.

Ah well, natural justice, I guess. :argh:

I do honestly feel for you there. But I suspect you are taking the shit for who the driver sees as the real bad guy, usual front line staff issue of them being the only ones your can directly bitch at.
But that is an issue with WoFs and why they are so useless. Instead of checking the basics and necessaries they check the frills like do you fog lights work when you don't have to have fog lights.
If we didn't have WoFs would drivers make themselves more aware of the vehicles requirements rather than leaving it up to the tester? It is easier to find the vehicle requirements than it is to find what a WoF actually covers.

[Paul in NZ]

Everyone who gets ticketed sees so many other people doing exactly the same thing, it makes them feel that they are being picked on. truck drivers feel picked on, so do boy racers, so do ethnic minorities, so do middle aged white males.




To be fair - us middle aged (cough) white males ARE an ethnic minority....

[Voltaire]

Same ol' chestnut.

WoF checks don't include a number of things that people think they do.

Including the legal obscurity of the number plate.

So, I stop a car for an obscured plate. Driver whines "But it's got a warrant". I sez "That's not part of the warrant check" and I endz up being the bad guy.

Ah well, natural justice, I guess. :argh:

Does that get the quotas up :killingme or is it the 'gotcha' when everything else check out....:eek5:

[rastuscat]

Does that get the quotas up :killingme or is it the 'gotcha' when everything else check out....:eek5:

Nah, its the thing I ignore coz nobody ever died as a result of a towball covering the number plate.

Thats probably why it's so widely disregarded, coz we don't enforce it much.

Blame us.

[Swoop]

Nah, its the thing I ignore coz nobody ever died as a result of a towball covering the number plate.
A less commonly known fact is: the towball was originally designed as a donut holder. Its purpose was to retain a single "bait" donut that would lure unsuspecting followers in behind the vehicle, whence the victim could be lead towards the perpetrator's remote and secluded location.
While the victim was down on hands and knees nibbling on the tasty bait donut, the perpetrator would sneak up behind and have his wicked way with the victim.
Hence the origin of the term "dunkin' donuts".




I bet you didn't know that.:whistle:

[5150]

A less commonly known fact is: the towball was originally designed as a donut holder. Its purpose was to retain a single "bait" donut that would lure unsuspecting followers in behind the vehicle, whence the victim could be lead towards the perpetrator's remote and secluded location.
While the victim was down on hands and knees nibbling on the tasty bait donut, the perpetrator would sneak up behind and have his wicked way with the victim.
Hence the origin of the term "dunkin' donuts".




I bet you didn't know that.:whistle:

And here I thought it was used for towing.:facepalm:

[Usarka]

Nah, its the thing I ignore coz nobody ever died as a result of a towball covering the number plate.

Thats probably why it's so widely disregarded, coz we don't enforce it much.

Blame us.

Bollocks, have you ever whacked your shin on a tow bar? Fuck me that smarts so hard you want to die.

[rastuscat]

A less commonly known fact is: the towball was originally designed as a donut holder. Its purpose was to retain a single "bait" donut that would lure unsuspecting followers in behind the vehicle, whence the victim could be lead towards the perpetrator's remote and secluded location.
While the victim was down on hands and knees nibbling on the tasty bait donut, the perpetrator would sneak up behind and have his wicked way with the victim.
Hence the origin of the term "dunkin' donuts".




I bet you didn't know that.:whistle:



No, that fact had escaped me. Explains my nervousness near donut baits though.

[Katman]

If we didn't have WoFs would drivers make themselves more aware of the vehicles requirements rather than leaving it up to the tester?

Is that a serious question?

[spanner spinner]

[QUOTE=oneofsix;1130362683]If we didn't have WoFs would drivers make themselves more aware of the vehicles requirements rather than leaving it up to the tester?


As has been said the number plate fitting is not a wof requirement, all that is needed is some proof of the rego plate details. All the WOF check looks for is that there is a operating number plate light, even if there is no number plate fitted for it to light up.


As for not having WOF's you have got to be taking the piss. Having seen the falling to bits bikes that people will ride and hearing the horror stories from friends of mine that do car warrents of the death traps that people will drive this would be a recipe for disaster. I have seen bikes come in for WOF's with no brakes at all and the people riding them thought that this was fine. They usally tryed to convince me that they should get a WOF as they could ride fine with no brakes. And these where people who had some "awareness of there vehicle requirements". The people who had no vehicle awareness would turn up with 2 to 3 PSI in the tyres and not even realise that the tyres where flat, these people will never have any vehicle awareness as they have no interest in there vehicle short of driving or riding it. Both of these people are currently sorted by the WOF system, and hopefully the defects are fixed before they return to the road. At least if they have no WOF there is a sightly bigger chance that they will get picked up and the dangerous vehicle removed from the road. The WOF system is not perfect and has several holes in my opinion but is better than a free for all. The extra work lumped on the police to inspect all vehicles when they stopped to make sure that they where roadworthy would be another issue. At least at present a current WOF means that the vehicle should be roadworthy.

[Road kill]

Geez what a killbuzz ;)

I get what you mean, BUT I would be interested to see how many times trailers get pulled over for it.

Never owned one myself so I have no idea.

It could be viewed as picking on motorcyclists/boy racer cars.



please take note that I said could, not that it IS

My current boat trailer of 4 years has a side mounted plate as per the Op's description,,and the answer to your question is "never"
That's 8 WOF checks and a fishing mate who's a CVIU officer.
Believe me if somebody was going to raise the issue,he would be #1.

[johnben2]

Looks like there at it again, local WOF place tells me that they have to warn motorcyclists that they will be targetted... really! i asked if it was a WOF thing and he said no, they were just told.

i asked if it was to affect trailers, hores floats etc with sideways plates... he said no mention, just motorcycles.

Really!!!!!
:devil2::Police::devil2:

[rastuscat]

Looks like there at it again, local WOF place tells me that they have to warn motorcyclists that they will be targetted... really! i asked if it was a WOF thing and he said no, they were just told.

i asked if it was to affect trailers, hores floats etc with sideways plates... he said no mention, just motorcycles.

Really!!!!!
:devil2::Police::devil2:

Who is "they" ?

A WoF place, or the local Popo?

Basically, the law hasn't changed. Good thread dredge though, 8 years after I last posted on this.

I have removed a few posts over the years, but stopped doing it when my fence fell down.

[caseye]

Who is "they" ?

A WoF place, or the local Popo?

Basically, the law hasn't changed. Good thread dredge though, 8 years after I last posted on this.

I have removed a few posts over the years, but stopped doing it when my fence fell down.

Rastus! Really ya fence fell down?
Te he he. OK Mr johnben2 what did ""they"" actually say, c round ere, we know thers what was said and wot they said.
Ah bugga, sucked into posting on a really old thread.
:facepalm::facepalm:

[FJRider]

... i asked if it was a WOF thing and he said no, they were just told.



I spoke to a local WOF place about it ... NOT a safety issue he said. Be it a trailer or motorcycle ... he would have no issue with a "sideways" fitted plate

[scumdog]

I spoke to a local WOF place about it ... NOT a safety issue he said. Be it a trailer or motorcycle ... he would have no issue with a "sideways" fitted plate

Wot 'e sed!:niceone: