Why is NZ so lax on the ATV deaths?

[danchop]

i see another farm worker killed yest and another seriously injured the day before and a whole heap killed or injured in past years,yet nothing constructive has ever been done about it.
last week coming back on sh16(wellsford-helensville)i came to a halt as a truck had flipped its trailer and it was reduced to one lane,in front of me was a farmer on an atv towing a trailer with no number plate and no helmet and the police just waved him through with the rest of the traffic.
also that piha coastguard watch on tv just about always shows the life savers hooning up the beach with no safety gear on,
why is this?

[ellipsis]

.....its the old 'cant happen to me' syndrome, a lot of the time.My son went to a place where they zoom around hilly rutted area on quads once...I specifically told these people I didnt want my boy out on the quad bike...he was about 10 ....found out later on that he was let loose on one...when I asked why ...was told that " it was safe and their kids hadnt had any problems before"....when I told them of my loathing of them and about the proven risks/dangers of them , I was laughed at....wasnt laughing by the time I let go of the pricks throat....I am a rural dweller and can document at least half a dozen rollovers in our area with the fucking things that have resulted in lucky escapes and some not so lucky , just in the last year...never had problems with my sons falling off dirt bikes...part of the deal...

[duckonin]

i see another farm worker killed yest and another seriously injured the day before and a whole heap killed or injured in past years,yet nothing constructive has ever been done about it.
last week coming back on sh16(wellsford-helensville)i came to a halt as a truck had flipped its trailer and it was reduced to one lane,in front of me was a farmer on an atv towing a trailer with no number plate and no helmet and the police just waved him through with the rest of the traffic.
also that piha coastguard watch on tv just about always shows the life savers hooning up the beach with no safety gear on,
why is this?

The first maybe the police had enough problems to deal with (Truck) the 2nd it is a bit impractical to wear safety gear on a farm, sure a helmet..The ATV of today is very heavy if they roll on you or pin you down it is going to hurt, 'most' of these accidents on farms are due to the "brain" can do attitude, almost all could be avoided if the dumb fucks driving them remembered they are on a bike not driving a truck, tractor:facepalm:Farmers tow very heavy implements or trailers behind these bikes when they are clearly not made to do that, in work shops some frames are pulled apart from towing these weights, some of these bikes are up to 700cc and the ave farmer thinks it should be able to tow anything at all..Plus the bloody speed they drive at you really need to see some of the pricks at calving time trying to head a cow off, and they call themselves stock men , yeah right that term died years back...

But human nature the way it is...

[bogan]

one reason, tptb know farmers will just laugh at them if they try and make helmets on farm quads compulsory. Also, if you consider the number of hours spent on quad bikes per year, you may find it's safer than driving a cage?

[Katman]

At least the lifeguard quads are kept in good condition.

A lot of farm quads are allowed to deteriorate to the point of becoming death traps.

[turtleman]

How many of these have actually had any tuition/training on how to operate the machinery in a safe manner ?
I think that would probably be more important than enforcing safety gear/rollbars etc (though those should not be discounted as a precautionary measure).

[Edbear]

How many of these have actually had any tuition/training on how to operate the machinery in a safe manner ?
I think that would probably be more important than enforcing safety gear/rollbars etc (though those should not be discounted as a precautionary measure).

You're absolutely right! Showing someone how to operate the machine is not the same as teaching them how to ride one safely! These things tip over VERY easily and for a previous poster, I doubt very much whether helmets are the main issue with farm quads as it is inevitably a roll-over and crushing that is the issue. So a roll bar would be the very basic of necessary equipment on one.

IMHO a two-wheeled farm bike is inherently much safer and for carrying and towing those little Jap trucks are fantastic! They'll carry more, tow more, go most places and drivers are far less tempted to take four wheels where four wheels shouldn't be.

[bogan]

all the safety gear you need is a dog on the back, when he bails, you maybe wanna take it down a notch :lol:

They ain't that easy to roll over, but they do go suddenly, and at slow speeds turning into the roll isn't likely to right it. This is where the problem lies, me and the old man actually discussed the possibility of a tip sensor for my final year uni project, think thats the only way to go, roll bars are too inconvenient for carrying loads, helmets and other safety gear are too inconvenient for most riders as well. Integrated tips sensor that tell you to cut that shit out would be the way to go, anyone wanna give me some funding to develope one?

[Katman]

They ain't that easy to roll over, but they do go suddenly, and at slow speeds turning into the roll isn't likely to right it.

When a ball joint decides to go (on any sort of slope) they can roll very easily.

[bogan]

When a ball joint decides to go (on any sort of slope) they can roll very easily.

that's why most farmers get a honda, superior build quality :bleh:

[scott411]

that's why most farmers get a honda, superior build quality :bleh:

Suzuki was the number one quad last year, and for 3 of the 5 years before that as well, no data is held to see what quads are in more accidents either.

the tip sensor has issues as well, as depends where it sits as sometimes you need power to get you out of a situation, the big road bikes have tip sensors as well and i know of at least one road racer that set one off with out falling off, i do not think that it will be a save all feature

this seems to be a very emotive subject that comes up every so often, i think the fact that more people committ suicide than die on the roads in all vehicles, and on the farms in all vehcles put to together is more of a burning issue

[sil3nt]

I remember when i was about 7 or 8 i was helping out a neighbour on the farm and he asked me to drive the quad down to the bottom of the paddock. It was a straight track about 4 or 5 metres wide with shallow ditches on either side. Managed to end up in the ditch on two wheels :facepalm:. Was lucky it didn't roll completely over on me!

[SMOKEU]

Shit happens. There is nothing that can reasonably be done to reduce the number of deaths on quad bikes. The police can't supervise every farmer who is riding a quad bike, and people can get away with a lot more on their own property than out in public.

[bogan]

Suzuki was the number one quad last year, and for 3 of the 5 years before that as well, no data is held to see what quads are in more accidents either.

yeh but they had to change the color to red to be able to compete :shifty:



the tip sensor has issues as well, as depends where it sits as sometimes you need power to get you out of a situation, the big road bikes have tip sensors as well and i know of at least one road racer that set one off with out falling off, i do not think that it will be a save all feature.

yeh you'd have to put a bit more intelligence in it than road bike ones, as it's gotta go off before tipping not after!



this seems to be a very emotive subject that comes up every so often, i think the fact that more people committ suicide than die on the roads in all vehicles, and on the farms in all vehcles put to together is more of a burning issue

good point, but how you sposed to put a tip sensor in a person? :blink:

[robo555]

How about just fitting roll cage/roll bars?

[duckonin]

all the safety gear you need is a dog on the back, when he bails, you maybe wanna take it down a notch :lol:
,
me and the old man actually discussed the possibility of a tip sensor for my final year uni project.
helmets and other safety gear are too inconvenient for most riders as well.

'A helmet would be too 'inconvenient' to keep your brain safe or at least help in the event!!::facepalm:

years back the Lands and Survey bought new Toyotas with the altimeter type deal on the dash showing the lean angle of the vehicle, it was amazing the number of vehicles that rolled over, due to the dick driving them watching the gizmo to see how far they could get it to go before shit happened, well yep most cases shit happened quickly the result:shit:

Yes Katman you right, there are some serious death traps on farms, under maintained vehicles..

[scott411]

if only it was easy to reprogram human behaviour,

i think the biggest problem with Quads is how they are perceived and being very easy to ride, where they are not, and the consquences are worse than a 2 wheeler when things go wrong,

i would be interested to know if more people die on horses than quads tho, cause when one of those fall on you its pretty bad,

i know more people get killed every year in equestion sports than motor sports

[SMOKEU]

if only it was easy to reprogram human behaviour,

i think the biggest problem with Quads is how they are perceived and being very easy to ride, where they are not, and the consquences are worse than a 2 wheeler when things go wrong,

i would be interested to know if more people die on horses than quads tho, cause when one of those fall on you its pretty bad,

i know more people get killed every year in equestion sports than motor sports

At least a quad bike won't kick you in the stomach if it gets pissed off at you. Is the whole "never walk directly behind a horse" thing true?

[\m/]

that's why most farmers get a honda, superior build quality :bleh:
Actually the new 420cc Hondas have had a lot of reliabilaty problems.

[scott411]

How about just fitting roll cage/roll bars?

because it makes the centre of gravity higher, and since you can not strap your self on teh quad you will get caught up in the roll bars trying to get away form it

[bogan]

'A helmet would be too 'inconvenient' to keep your brain safe or at least help in the event!!::facepalm:


are you wearing one now? If you aren't in danger of a head injury, you don't need to wear one! And in my experience, the danger of a head injury on a quad is fuck all.



years back the Lands and Survey bought new Toyotas with the altimeter type deal on the dash showing the lean angle of the vehicle, it was amazing the number of vehicles that rolled over, due to the dick driving them watching the gizmo to see how far they could get it to go before shit happened, well yep most cases shit happened quickly the result:shit:


yeh, a readout is a bad idea, but an anoying as fuck beeper gets results with car keys/headlights....

[Banditbandit]

yeh but they had to change the color to red to be able to compete :shifty:



Naaa .. my mid-80s Suzuki was red ...


How about just fitting roll cage/roll bars?

Not practicable ...


Changing the laws won't work ... it's an issue of enforcement ... when you're two hours ride away on the back of the farm there's no-one going to go out and check to see if you're complying wth any law ...

[stig]

How about just fitting roll cage/roll bars?
I've been thinking of buying or building somthing like this for the old man.
http://www.quadbar.com.au/quad-bar.html
Im sure you could still hurt yourself but it'd reduce the chances of being pinned under the quad and being asphyxiated or outright crushed.


because it makes the centre of gravity higher, and since you can not strap your self on teh quad you will get caught up in the roll bars trying to get away form it
most farm quad bikes are in the mid-high 200's kg, it'd take a lot of steel to significantly shift the c.o.g., but yeah I think a big cage could create more hazards than it solves.

[scott411]

i actually do not mind that type of roll bar, would help a bit in some crashes,

but on big country it ill just cause the quad to flip higher as it goes down the hill,

a quads weight is fairly high as it is when considering where the 90-100 KG ish rider is sitting on top of it,

[NordieBoy]

I've been thinking of buying or building somthing like this for the old man.
http://www.quadbar.com.au/quad-bar.html
Im sure you could still hurt yourself but it'd reduce the chances of being pinned under the quad and being asphyxiated or outright crushed.

A sissy bar for a quad!

Quite well thought out though. About the least you can do and still have protection.

[Katman]

I've been thinking of buying or building somthing like this for the old man.
http://www.quadbar.com.au/quad-bar.html


That's not a roll-bar. That's something to hang onto when you're standing on the carrier helping your mate pull mean-as wheelies.

[Brian d marge]

They dont make money for government , stick a revenue stream on em and watch what happens

Stephen

[duckonin]

[
QUOTE=bogan;1129903806]are you wearing one now? If you aren't in danger of a head injury, you don't need to wear one! And in my experience, the danger of a head injury on a quad is fuck all.



yeh, a readout is a bad idea, but an anoying as fuck beeper gets results with car keys/headlights....[/QUOTE]

you need to protect your brain for to ride drive anything in an outdoors pursuit leads to 'possible' head injury...So who listens to BEEPERS, they have them also in the Jap imports didn't make any difference the drivers still speed, actually they go even faster to see if the thing will blow up!!! BEEPERS B fucked, 'idiots on bikes for christ sake' that's the theme, bet my last bit of 'Goat shit' you are one of those!!:innocent:

[bogan]

you need to protect your brain for to ride drive anything in an outdoors pursuit leads to 'possible' head injury...So who listens to BEEPERS, they have them also in the Jap imports didn't make any difference the drivers still speed, actually they go even faster to see if the thing will blow up!!! BEEPERS B fucked, 'idiots on bikes for christ sake' that's the theme, bet my last bit of 'Goat shit' you are one of those!!:innocent:

'possible' sounds like nanny state talk to me, unless its probable (and even then it's debatable) then mandatory safety gear isn't justified. It's possible a bit of roof or light fitting could fall down on your head, gonna wear helmets inside now?

But I bet every one of those jap import drivers with the beeping know they are speeding, I'd also bet the majority of rollovers didn't know they were about to roll over, maybe if they knew it wouldn't have happend?

[Headbanger]

The question should be why isn't the agriculture sector held to the same standards as the rest of NZ? Many exceptions for them are written into law, and this is the payback. How to fix it? with a giant stick, It can be done. The question is who has the power?

[bogan]

The question should be why isn't the agriculture sector held to the same standards as the rest of NZ? Many exceptions for them are written into law, and this is the payback. How to fix it? with a giant stick, It can be done. The question is who has the power?

perhaps a better question is why does the rest of NZ put up with the endless safety BS, why don't we follow the ag sectors lead and tell em to get fucked!

[JATZ]

perhaps a better question is why does the rest of NZ put up with the endless safety BS, why don't we follow the ag sectors lead and tell em to get fucked!

You running for parliament fellah ?

you'd get my vote

[Smifffy]

The question should be why isn't the agriculture sector held to the same standards as the rest of NZ? Many exceptions for them are written into law, and this is the payback. How to fix it? with a giant stick, It can be done. The question is who has the power?

Exactly this.

Thing is you wouldn't even need the police to (ahem) police it. Leave that to the DOL (some ppl call it OSH) after an accident. If the AG sector got hammered like the rest of us it would stop quick.

Also unlike the Popo, the DOL openly admit to a policy of "guilty until proven innocent".

Still the farmers are "the backbone of the nation" so it will never happen. Easier to record em all as 'motorcycle accidents' and put the rego up.

[mashman]

How to fix it? with a giant stick, It can be done. The question is who has the power?

the media.

[bogan]

You running for parliament fellah ?

you'd get my vote

:lol: don't think I'd last long, and would probably spend most my time swearing at the slimy bastards....

but I'd certainly for for a more down to earth NZ too :yes:

[scracha]

At least a quad bike won't kick you in the stomach if it gets pissed off at you. Is the whole "never walk directly behind a horse" thing true?

Pretty much. Bikes, quads, horses...all dangerous in the wrong hands.

Quad bikes, yeah....you can get away with crazy shit on them for months and then one day the fucker just digs in and rolls. If you're lucky you get spat off.

Off road thing. I personally would like it to be compulsory for under 16 year olds to be wearing helmets on dirt bikes, quads and horses.

[scott411]

just looked at the figures, we average 5 ATV deaths a year, and approx 40 road bike deaths a year, both figures are to high,

i think the average farmer takes safety seriously, as does the average road rider, but accidents happen, and some people take fair to many risks on both types of machines

[Berg]

Being that I am recovering from a major (sport) quad crash, my thoughts are, quads are not actually dangerous. They are by themselves an inanimate object. It's what we choose to do with them that makes them dangerous. Mine was a case of waaaay to fast and a tightening corner causing me to emulate superman just without the suit.
It seems to me lots of farmers try to use quads as tractors without the correct training and safety gear. Is that a fault of the quad or the person using it? A huge portion of fatal quad crashes are then narrowed down to poor maintenance coupled with a blase attitude toward safety. I survived due to wearing all the best gear. How often do you see farmers with a helmet on? Not often at all.
Problem is how to regulate it. Most farmers would just tell any authority to "bugger off" and then who do we get to actually police it?
Until farmers and other quad riders take responsibility for their own safety as I did, we will continue to have quad fatals. ATGATT

[fuknKIWI]

Pretty much. Bikes, quads, horses...all dangerous in the wrong hands.

Quad bikes, yeah....you can get away with crazy shit on them for months and then one day the fucker just digs in and rolls. If you're lucky you get spat off.

Off road thing. I personally would like it to be compulsory for under 16 year olds to be wearing helmets on dirt bikes, quads and horses.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/4327286/Call-for-compulsory-quad-bike-helmets

Those quads are an abomination. As an ex Kiwi farmer in the 80's when people started to rave about 'em I preferred the Ford Dexta & a real farm bike.
Currently I'm a greenkeeper on an Aussie golf course, quads get a lot of use here on golf courses. We had a visit from Worksafe a while back, we were in the middle of extending our shed & had chemicals store openly on a pallet on the floor & all sorts of other dodgy stuff to boot. The Worksafe inspector was doing follow up vists after a quad fatality & asked about our quad(s) the boss then told him we got rid of them in favour of a Workman, on hearing that the inspector commented on the work in progress with a "gentle reminder" to clean things up. End of story.

[Tink]

At least a quad bike won't kick you in the stomach if it gets pissed off at you. Is the whole "never walk directly behind a horse" thing true?

Nah, I used to walk behind my horse... depends on the horse!


Pretty much. Bikes, quads, horses...all dangerous in the wrong hands.

I AGREE 100% THERE

Quad bikes, yeah....you can get away with crazy shit on them for months and then one day the fucker just digs in and rolls. If you're lucky you get spat off.

Off road thing. I personally would like it to be compulsory for under 16 year olds to be wearing helmets on dirt bikes, quads and horses.

Not sure if you have to wear head gear riding a horse, but all the kids I know that ride, do wear it, and its a hard hat, but just like our wee lass from school that died 1 year ago in December on a quad bike, she wore all the gear including a helmet as far as I know... sadly it did nothing to save her.

I have noticed a trend... they don't like steep slopes!!! or the rider is not experienced with steep slopes :(

[TimeOut]

How about just fitting roll cage/roll bars?

They have been proven to cause more roll overs, and as previously stated when you aren't belted in roll over bars are actually more dangerous


Actually the new 420cc Hondas have had a lot of reliabilaty problems.

Not to mention the 450 and the 500 both have major problems
3 sets of rings, 1 rebore, and a new gearbox on the 500 before 20,000km

Done 30,000 on the Suzuki and no problems

[Dschubba]

At least a quad bike won't kick you in the stomach if it gets pissed off at you. Is the whole "never walk directly behind a horse" thing true?

Tipped mine on it's side the other day due to a moments inattention.
Was only going slow, ended up jamming my leg underneath and couldn't get it off me without help. Had to winch out of the hole i ended up in.:bye:

So a couple of things i noticed:

Gravity works really fast

Glad i splashed out on some fancy motocross boots a few weeks earlier as they may have saved a broken ankle

Yes they can kick you in the stomach, because I got a big purple bruise beside my belly button to prove it.

[Headbanger]

1.Dont let kids ride adult sized quads.

2.Farmers are retarded fuckwits. I

've been riding quads since they had three fuckin wheels for fuck sake, Treat em with respect and be-aware that sooner or later they will bite. When they do, be a smart fucker and take appropriate action. I've bailed on the mother fuckers hundreds of times, When I was racing them I sometimes bailed multiple times in a single lap.

3.Roll over bars in the form of the shoulder height rear bar as shown earlier work perfectly for dumb fuck farmers who don't comprehend the laws of physics, Its bullshit saying they increase rollovers (fuck off,who the fuck are you kidding?) and its bullshit to say you need to be strapped in. 4.They should make people who use them in the work place (dumb fuck farmers) hold a license, and they should drill some smarts into there thick heads in order to get that license. And if they don't give fuck, teach em with a baseball bat.

5.Quads are not horses, they don't fine their own balance on a slope, they roll the fuck off, you dumbfuck. Furthermore, when you get in trouble on a slope then steer downhill (not uphill dumbfuck), and if the route downhill is nasty then bail, let the bike go down by itself.

6.Wear the gear, asshole. You're not clever, Your just ruining it for the rest of us.

[Katman]

1.Dont let kids ride adult sized quads.

2.Farmers are retarded fuckwits. I

've been riding quads since they had three fuckin wheels for fuck sake, Treat em with respect and be-aware that sooner or later they will bite. When they do, be a smart fucker and take appropriate action. I've bailed on the mother fuckers hundreds of times, When I was racing them I sometimes bailed multiple times in a single lap.

3.Roll over bars in the form of the shoulder height rear bar as shown earlier work perfectly for dumb fuck farmers who don't comprehend the laws of physics, Its bullshit saying they increase rollovers (fuck off,who the fuck are you kidding?) and its bullshit to say you need to be strapped in. 4.They should make people who use them in the work place (dumb fuck farmers) hold a license, and they should drill some smarts into there thick heads in order to get that license. And if they don't give fuck, teach em with a baseball bat.

5.Quads are not horses, they don't fine their own balance on a slope, they roll the fuck off, you dumbfuck. Furthermore, when you get in trouble on a slope then steer downhill (not uphill dumbfuck), and if the route downhill is nasty then bail, let the bike go down by itself.

6.Wear the gear, asshole. You're not clever, Your just ruining it for the rest of us.

Fuckin' A.

[tri boy]

They never roll over if your wearing your safety vest......................

[PrincessBandit]

It seems to me lots of farmers try to use quads as tractors without the correct training and safety gear. Is that a fault of the quad or the person using it? A huge portion of fatal quad crashes are then narrowed down to poor maintenance coupled with a blase attitude toward safety. .................. Most farmers would just tell any authority to "bugger off" and then who do we get to actually police it?
Until farmers and other quad riders take responsibility for their own safety as I did, we will continue to have quad fatals. ATGATT

I wonder if there is the perception that "as long as it's on private property and not out where joe public is then it's our business how we operate our vehicles". Obviously the end result can be the same whether the accident has occured out on a public road or the back of someones farm, but I think there's a significant mindset of - you can't tell me what to do in the privacy of my own home/on my own property - going on. I'm guessing here, but mr and ms motorcyclist and car driver are much easier to come down on because of their greater potential risk to other road users and higher profile. After all, someone being a dick on the road is likely to draw attention from someone (police, pissed off drivers etc.). Someone being a dick on the farm isn't noticed until they suffer the consequences of their inattentiveness or lack of control of their vehicle. Somehow I don't think anyone would *555 them.....

[bogan]

I wonder if there is the perception that "as long as it's on private property and not out where joe public is then it's our business how we operate our vehicles".

Is that kinda like personal responsibility? I thought that shit was banned ages ago :whistle: