Reactions and reflexes.

[Edbear]

How are yours? My accident back in May and various threads on KB since then have caused me to be reflective about our ability to react effectively to sudden threats.

Many times over the years, I have had incidents which could have been very nasty or fatal, were it not for my reactions. Often I have found I had reacted before being fully aware of the imminent danger. This has been on both four and two wheels and in other situations at work or play. In tests, my reaction time is average, yet those with faster reactions have suffered more than I have, if you know what I mean.

Therefore I believe the ability to avoid harm is a combination of reactions and reflexes coupled with alertness, anticipation and situational awareness along with an intangible - something within us that maybe is in the subconcious, if you know what I mean.

A mechanical test for reaction time is a conscious test, not a blind subconcious one, hence my finding I have reacted to a situation before being fully consciously aware of it. In the case of my accident I was taken by surprise by slipping on oil while I was concentrating on oncoming traffic, the corner I was about to round, checking my speed and position and adjusting my throttle for the climb. By the time the van was sideways, I had the steering wheel full opposite lock, was watching the facial expression of the Corolla driver who's door I was heading for and managed to spin the van the other way before it slammed into the curb and rolled on its side. By then I was merely a passenger and it wasn't going to respond to any other inputs so all I could do was hang on a experience the crash.

I can recall other incidences that could have been "very bad" had I not reacted as fast. One thing I firmly believe has helped over the years was attending a Defensive Driving Course back in '76, one of the first courses run in NZ. I have never forgotten the lessons learned on that course, particularly aniticipation and reading ahead and having an escape route planned or noted as you are driving along.

How do others feel about this? What are your experiences and thoughts?

[scissorhands]

Tiredness, junk food, no coffee in morning, emotional problems, aging, obesity, cat poo, drugging and drinking......

The only real way to keep reaction speeds down, is to eat, sleep and exercise well.

[Katman]

The key to instant reaction is having your brain in gear and working constantly.

Too many drive/ride in a daydream.

[Laava]

My missus makes me flinch alot. I think I am good at that.

[Motu]

Reaction times are the same for most people - quick reactions in an emergency are a trained response.Martial arts,boxing,motorcycle crashes...do it often enough and you learn to anticipate...you are reacting before the emergency.

Defensive Driving Course in 1976? Was that compulsory? They were there before 1976 - I was sent on one in 1973 as part of my fine and lost of license for dangerous driving.Half or more of the people on those courses were sent there by the courts.

[Edbear]

Reaction times are the same for most people - quick reactions in an emergency are a trained response.Martial arts,boxing,motorcycle crashes...do it often enough and you learn to anticipate...you are reacting before the emergency.

Defensive Driving Course in 1976? Was that compulsory? They were there before 1976 - I was sent on one in 1973 as part of my fine and lost of license for dangerous driving.Half or more of the people on those courses were sent there by the courts.

:gob:

I can't remember, you must be correct about when they began, my mother was the instructor for the Northern Regional Area Defensive Driving Council, (she was the local driving instructor as well as taxi and bus driver), and I was on one of her first courses. The films were from the US and of course left hand drive so we had to adapt.

It wasn't compulsory but as you can see I still have my certificate and still remember much of the course.

[scissorhands]

:gob: my mother was the instructor for the Northern Regional Area Defensive Driving Council, (she was the local driving instructor as well as taxi and bus driver

Your family must have had all the gos!



Since I have slowed down due to hypermiling, my reactions are way slower than what they were.

Basicly, driving super slow has created more opportunity to gawk, relax, take in the view, way less stress. I hardly do 90 km/hr nowadays, unless I need to due to others behind me.

As a hypermiler, fuel costs are less than 1/2 of what they were for me and my reactions are somewhat dormant due to lack of rushing anywhere, the safety margin this slowness creates, and its accompanying complacency....

If I sped my reactions would be better

[mashman]

The key to instant reaction is having your brain in gear and working constantly.

Too many drive/ride in a daydream.

What he said :) I've caught myself doing it with both car and bike :shutup:



My missus makes me flinch alot. I think I am good at that.


What he said. DAMN fine training.



Reaction times are the same for most people - quick reactions in an emergency are a trained response.Martial arts,boxing,motorcycle crashes...do it often enough and you learn to anticipate...you are reacting before the emergency.


What he said. You're gonna get hit if you're not paying attention, even the trained ones get caught.



Basicly, driving super slow has created more opportunity to gawk, relax, take in the view, way less stress. I hardly do 90 km/hr nowadays, unless I need to due to others behind me.


It may not be your reactions. How long does it take a vehicle, travelling slowish, to react to an incident?

[duckonin]

:yes:Two posts here have said it all; Plus, Defensive driving courses should be complusory for all licence classes..

[Laava]

I recommend doing the KB wave at all times to draw attention to oneself!
Oh and USD forks.

[Edbear]

Your family must have had all the gos!



Since I have slowed down due to hypermiling, my reactions are way slower than what they were.

Basicly, driving super slow has created more opportunity to gawk, relax, take in the view, way less stress. I hardly do 90 km/hr nowadays, unless I need to due to others behind me.

As a hypermiler, fuel costs are less than 1/2 of what they were for me and my reactions are somewhat dormant due to lack of rushing anywhere, the safety margin this slowness creates, and its accompanying complacency....

If I sped my reactions would be better

I was privileged to have a mother who was very intelligent and a hard worker. She also liked motorcycles and I learned to ride on her BSA Bantam. She used to borrow my T500 to go to Tauranga, (from Warkworth), to vist her mother, (my Grandmother, of course...), and she assured me she didn't take it over 90. :yes: (Of course the speedo was in miles per hour... :innocent:)

I've heard of you hypermiler's and really can't imagine travelling that slow myself. I do take pride in getting maximum economy at realistic speeds and have only now met my match in my eldest daughter's husband who can just pip me! :angry: We did a test last trip to Aus in a Commodore V6 Auto wagon and with a full load of two adults, the grandson and all our gear we could both achieve 36mpg or 13.2km/l or about 8.2lt/100km, but he could just squeeze that wee bit extra... I pride myself in getting maximum mileage from tyres without driving like a granny, too.

[Okey Dokey]

I think from a physiological point of view, our reaction times tend to become slower with advancing age. Happily, we should have developed better observation skills, "road sense", anticipation of what others may do which allows us to compensate for that.

Agree with Edbear, Katman and others that having your mind focussed on the ride is hugely important.

[Edbear]

:yes:Two posts here have said it all; Plus, Defensive driving courses should be complusory for all licence classes..

Totally agree! :yes:


I think from a physiological point of view, our reaction times tend to become slower with advancing age. Happily, we should have developed better observation skills, "road sense", anticipation of what others may do which allows us to compensate for that.

Agree with Edbear, Katman and others that having your mind focussed on the ride is hugely important.

Yup! I am often surprised as a passenger, to realise the driver is not aware of what is happening 500m - 1km ahead and anticipating the traffic. Some seem only to see what is immediately in front of the car! So they are often braking and slowing suddenly rather than reading ahead and adjusting their speed to ensure a smoother, more consistent pace and not being taken unawares. I am always watching as far ahead as I can see to note upcoming traffic and road conditions as to be able to react accordingly.

Same with passing slower traffic, many seem to be driving with brains elsewhere and will slow down behind a car in front, then get caught and held behind by overtaking traffic when they finally realise they should pass, instead of anticipating and pulling out to pass maintaining their speed - again, needless braking and accelerating and irritation with the driver in front!

One thing cruise control is handy for is in teaching you to read ahead to avoid switching it off or touching the brakes. I liked to see, (when I had a car with it...), how far through traffic I could drive with it engaged.

[OutForADuck]

Ok.. so here is completely different view point.
Our brains are complex entities made up of a number of components that are often referred to as separate brains such as the reptilian brain. The functions of our brain are spread across these regions to varying degrees.
Physical co-ordination and movement is usually part of our lower brain function, these areas of the brain are simpler and as a result faster to react to stimuli but react in simple ways, such as panic... pull break lever hard!!!!
Really good riding and in particular really good high speed riding is about appropriate control and inputs to the motorcycle and we often talk of overcoming SR’s or Survival Reactions, such as “panic pull break lever hard!!!”.
So perhaps fast reactions are not what will save you from an accident but rather practiced and smoothly co-ordinated actions, which also explains why an experienced rider can often avoid an accident that will catch out a younger (faster reaction) rider with less experience.
I therefore propose it not about reaction time as much as it is about appropriate reaction in time.
We need to practice and even react a little slow so we can choose the right way to react.. there is a reason why beta blockers are used in skilled sports.

[Katman]

I therefore propose it not about reaction time as much as it is about appropriate reaction in time.


That is absolutely true and why I have always advocated running "what if" scenarios through your head. If the thought patterns have already been established the appropriate reaction can be implemented almost instantly.

[Edbear]

Ok.. so here is completely different view point.
Our brains are complex entities made up of a number of components that are often referred to as separate brains such as the reptilian brain. The functions of our brain are spread across these regions to varying degrees.
Physical co-ordination and movement is usually part of our lower brain function, these areas of the brain are simpler and as a result faster to react to stimuli but react in simple ways, such as panic... pull break lever hard!!!!
Really good riding and in particular really good high speed riding is about appropriate control and inputs to the motorcycle and we often talk of overcoming SR’s or Survival Reactions, such as “panic pull break lever hard!!!”.
So perhaps fast reactions are not what will save you from an accident but rather practiced and smoothly co-ordinated actions, which also explains why an experienced rider can often avoid an accident that will catch out a younger (faster reaction) rider with less experience.
I therefore propose it not about reaction time as much as it is about appropriate reaction in time.
We need to practice and even react a little slow so we can choose the right way to react.. there is a reason why beta blockers are used in skilled sports.

An interesting point. As with many my age, I learned to drive on gravel roads and cross-ply tyres. The Bradford simply didn't have the power or the brakes to have any fun in but my next vehicle was a '59 CA Bedford and while not a powerhouse by any stretch of the imagination, was very light in the rear and I had great fun with it, thus learning how to control skids and slides and panic stop, all at speeds around 50 - 60 km/h! I used to say I could write my name on a gravel road in the old Humber 80! Got a real shock, though, when Mum got a Morris 1800 and had to relearn, due to front-wheel drive, wider radial tyres and power disc brakes! So you're right it's not only speed of reaction but correct reaction.

Sadly, youngsters these days don't get that kind of practise! :bye:

[george formby]

As already stated experience allows us to react appropriately, no matter how fast you are if your input is wrong your going to come a cropper. Up to a point I think the experience & awareness gained over years of riding compensates for slower reaction times. I'm better at anticipating & avoiding hazards now than i was 10 years ago & notice something new to add to my "watch out" list nearly every time i ride.
When i have mucked up in the past I believe appropriate reactions saved me rather than speed, knowing what to do in that split second is the most important thing & you rarely have time to think about it.
Truly passionate riders seem to be like sponges when it comes to learning riding skills, every trip is a lesson in what if because they are paying attention, thinking & have total concentration as opposed to checking out their reflection in a shop window or trying to prove that they are the next Rossi / Fonda / Pfeiffer.

[Edbear]

As already stated experience allows us to react appropriately, no matter how fast you are if your input is wrong your going to come a cropper. Up to a point I think the experience & awareness gained over years of riding compensates for slower reaction times. I'm better at anticipating & avoiding hazards now than i was 10 years ago & notice something new to add to my "watch out" list nearly every time i ride.
When i have mucked up in the past I believe appropriate reactions saved me rather than speed, knowing what to do in that split second is the most important thing & you rarely have time to think about it.
Truly passionate riders seem to be like sponges when it comes to learning riding skills, every trip is a lesson in what if because they are paying attention, thinking & have total concentration as opposed to checking out their reflection in a shop window or trying to prove that they are the next Rossi / Fonda / Pfeiffer.

But, but... When you ride a C50T you just HAVE to check your reflection! It'd be rude not to! :yes:


:facepalm:

[Max Preload]

The key to instant reaction is having your brain in gear and working constantly.

Too many drive/ride in a daydream.A-fuck'n-men to that. Having to drive at 95km/h in a queue of others doesn't help the situation either.

[DEATH_INC.]

So perhaps fast reactions are not what will save you from an accident but rather practiced and smoothly co-ordinated actions, which also explains why an experienced rider can often avoid an accident that will catch out a younger (faster reaction) rider with less experience.
I therefore propose it not about reaction time as much as it is about appropriate reaction in time.
We need to practice and even react a little slow so we can choose the right way to react.. there is a reason why beta blockers are used in skilled sports.
Here's a bit of trivia pertaining a bit to this ( I can't remember where I read it tho...)
A while ago a study showed exactly this difference between men and woman. Woman have a faster reaction and response to prepared actions (you know like reaction tests and such) where men were better at unplanned actions. Now this isn't having a go at woman, but you can see it in racing, woman make very good dragracers for example, but not so many make it in circuit racing. Funny eh?

[scissorhands]

Here's a bit of trivia pertaining a bit to this ( I can't remember where I read it tho...)
A while ago a study showed exactly this difference between men and woman. Woman have a faster reaction and response to prepared actions (you know like reaction tests and such) where men were better at unplanned actions. Now this isn't having a go at woman, but you can see it in racing, woman make very good dragracers for example, but not so many make it in circuit racing. Funny eh?

Thats because they lack spatial vision, as do asians who you never see on the podiums.