The Ultimate Country Tourer?

[Gremlin]

Enough of the complaining threads, lets have some fun evaluating some bikes :yes:

So first a definition. I used the words country tourer in the sense of a country ie NZ, not country/city. This doesn't mean it necessarily has to be a globetrotter either. Needs to be that mythical do-all bike plenty of us look for.

What features are important to you when comparing bikes, what breaks the deal for you, and taking that into account whats on your short list if you were shopping now?

S'pose I should start first. I'm 95%+ road, so the bike has to be good on road, doesn't have to be brilliant off-road, but capable, ie, on tracks bordering on 4wd only territory. The advantage of this is just heading down a road when it takes your fancy and seeing where you end up.

Touring for me is also long distances in short times, like TT2000, Grand Challenge etc, so big fat heavy tourers don't cut the mustard for me, as they are hard work in the tight stuff, and would struggle when trying to go off road. However, they do have the handy features like a big fuel tank.

So the perfect bike for me has:
Excellent headlights, or something basic like H4, easily upgradeable, preferably two or more bulbs, good reflector housing
Good fuel tank, ideally more than 25L, the more the better
Reliable - goes without saying. If its going to break down, it will be in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere, so would prefer it doesn't break down. Service intervals of around 10k would be more useful than 6k.
Flexible. Fast sealed roads or off road, go anywhere, any time.
Standard tyre sizing (big bikes being 120-70-17 and 180-55-17). Wide range of choices and tyres should be available if needed in emergencies.
Strong battery/alternator for powering equipment off like extra lighting, GPS and heated gear
High quality suspension. Makes the world of difference when traversing the bumpy roads of NZ. Long travel usually has a big advantage over normal travel suspension.
Even started thinking a shaft drive would be useful, no problems with chains wearing out


It should be mentioned that sure, you can ride any bike now and then, but I'm meaning consistent long distances, anything from zero degrees (or below) and right through to middle of summer. As I've been finding, it sure takes its toll on the bike.

This means my current list (in no order) is something like this:
Ducati Multistrada 1200 - bit expensive
BMW R1200GS/A - usually makes lists doesn't it? Big fuel tank on the GSA, bigger available, possibly too heavy tho
KTM 990 SM - of course it makes the list, but comparatively naked, tank not nearly big enough
ST1300/Concours 14 etc, the big tourers. Good on road, perhaps not at higher paces in tight stuff, and not so good for off road exploring...

What say you?

[EJK]

Can't really comment on it due to lack of bike experience but after some travels I did on little bikes, I say (for me) some power and weight would be luxury enough. Bright headlight would help riding at night.

[CRM]

My list:

good light
reliable
good range
economical
comfortable riding position
good seat for rider and passenger (on the same level - my wife's request)
screen
seat not too high
heated grips
narrow panniers or good racks for soft panniers
sharp handling
character/ sound
loads of torque
10,000km service
shaft
2 accessory points


Beemer :shit:?

[Bald Eagle]

My list:

good light
reliable
good range
economical
comfortable riding position
good seat for rider and passenger (on the same level - my wife's request)
screen
seat not too high
heated grips
narrow panniers or good racks for soft panniers
sharp handling
character/ sound
loads of torque
10,000km service
shaft
2 accessory points


Beemer :shit:?

Boulevard / Harley / Burgman

or maybe even a Honda :facepalm:

[Kiwi Graham]

My choice would be the Kawasaki Concours 1400. Its looking likley to be the bike that replaces the 14 when the time comes (not happening any day soon mind)

It is considered the best of the larger tourers for hustling its burden along at an impressive pace even in the twisties!

Not sure what its 'off road' capabilities would be though but I guess if you had the experience on the metal it should do just fine.

[Edbear]

Personal choice for me would be the V-Strom 650 having ridden one, but the 1000 has a strong following and plenty of performance. The bikes are cheap enough by comparison to modify in any way you like to suit you and it's a darned good rider who will get away from you if you're on the 1000!

[george formby]

My last 2 visits to yerope have been an eye opener. Amongst the plethora of BMW GS's ( waiting for assistance:shutup:) were a lot of super scoots, Burgmans etc. I kept bumping into a group of German riders in Scotland, about 30 of them fanging round the Highlands with at least 7 superscoots merrily ridden in the pack by girlfriends, warm & dry in the Arctic like summer weather.
Riding through Germany I kept being passed by bloody scooters on the Autobahn, I'm sat at 150kmh getting my head torn off & these buggers are cruising past chatting on cellphones:shit:
Never seen a scooter on gravel but I did overcook a corner on an ST 1100 & rode a fair way up & down a grass bank reciting "the throttle is my friend" mantra.

Long distance tourers for me still need to be fairly light, after a 700k day, U turns in a strange city when your shattered & distracted can be a big leap of faith & test of engine bars / luggage.

[NZsarge]

FJR1300, Concours 14, my bike (ZX14) with it's 20mm bar raisers. A 2006 onward FZ1 Fazer if it had a seat upgrade or the NEW Multistrada 1200 if you really felt the need to do a teeny tiny amount of gravel roads or Beemer GS/New Super Ten 1200 if you wanted to to do a lot more gravel roads.

[AllanB]

Honda Hornet 900.


I'm just going to answer that to everything as it's the only bike I have and it has to do everything I ask of it. It has a good crack at it too :yes:

[george formby]

Honda Hornet 900.


I'm just going to answer that to everything as it's the only bike I have and it has to do everything I ask of it. It has a good crack at it too :yes:

:yes:I know how you feel. Best tourer? My bike.:scooter:

[Edbear]

:yes:I know how you feel. Best tourer? My bike.:scooter:

They never received the recognition they deserved, a great all-round all-roader!

[Gremlin]

or maybe even a Honda :facepalm:
My favourite shop is the Honda shop down the road. Honda is country wide, unfortunately, they don't make the bike I want. You have a ST1300 (not so good on gravel and tyres a bit odd), or the Varadero (big and heavy, too off road biased and tyres) or the CB1000R, which isn't practical enough.

I won't even mention the VFR1200F, but I am keeping my ear to the ground on the VFR1200T.


Long distance tourers for me still need to be fairly light, after a 700k day, U turns in a strange city when your shattered & distracted can be a big leap of faith & test of engine bars / luggage.
Completely agree re weight. Not only for city, but every corner in the country requires that bit less effort, and you go quicker, therefore arriving at the end of the day in better condition than on bigger heavier bikes.

Long days for me don't start until you're doing 800-1000km or more...

[pete376403]

Yamaha 1200 Tenere?

[CRM]

I'm off on a two week trip on Tuesday next week down to Invergargill and back doing a bit of zig-zagging - average day will be about 6 hours. I know the VFR will be fine for that. I had a VStrom 650 and disliked the blandness and tallness of it. I rode a Magna 700 on a similar trip and loved it - just lack of range and a bit exposed without a screen but otherwise magical. I did a similar trip on my XR600 and had a ball but it was exhausting and I had some reliability issues (broken clutch cable and camchain tensioner). I can't see me doing it on a Burgman...I have some pride. Harley or Boulevard? Not keen on the position - maybe a Sportster :shit:. Also the high back seat not a happy place for the wife when she comes riding.

I would like a GS as I think they would tick all the boxes but in my price range I'd be getting a '94 with 150000km - may be asking for trouble - dunno...:shutup:
I really like the R1100R - the Roadster. Nice and 'light' and 'simple' but with that fabulous engine. I think that would be my choice...:love:

[Gremlin]

Yamaha 1200 Tenere?
Possible, much like the beemer. Slightly odd tyre sizes, bit more off road orientated, Ok tank size.

For this thread, I'm also ignoring the impact of dealers. I'll only touch brands that have dealers I trust, as I see them frequently enough.

[NZsarge]

Yamaha 1200 Tenere?

Chuck a set of Dunlop Roadsmarts on it and it'd be in the hunt for best all round bike.

[banditrider]

My choice would be the Kawasaki Concours 1400. Its looking likley to be the bike that replaces the 14 when the time comes (not happening any day soon mind)

It is considered the best of the larger tourers for hustling its burden along at an impressive pace even in the twisties!

Not sure what its 'off road' capabilities would be though but I guess if you had the experience on the metal it should do just fine.

Fine on a gravel road as long as you're not trying to keep up with a dirt bike. Plenty of mass and wide bars make for easy handling.

Can run with the sports bikes when the rider is keen.

350km range is pretty easy if punting hard then you may end up dipping into the 4L reserve but still should get near this range. If only it had the 28L tank of the original C10 Connie...

Seat could be better. Service intervals are 12,000km - mine does get an oil change at 6,000 though.

The new model includes a few missing items that most riders add anyway (hot grips, bigger screen etc).

Shaft drives rock - just make sure bike shop tightens drain bung...

[Shadowjack]

1996 TDM850 - I researched a bit before I paid for it and, to date, it has met every expectation and surpassed some. Day in, day out, (touch wood) has never let me down; shingle; seal; commute; TT2000; couple of NI tours; SI traveling; 40k kms in two years. Economic on gas plus 20 litre tank (not as big as some, but better than others) means at least 300kms before looking for gas. Longish travel suspension; reasonable lights (although I don't mind traveling at night, I do like me sleep).

It might wear out one day , then what am I to do?

[martybabe]

My list:

good light
reliable
good range
economical
comfortable riding position
good seat for rider and passenger (on the same level - my wife's request)
screen
seat not too high
heated grips
narrow panniers or good racks for soft panniers
sharp handling
character/ sound
loads of torque
10,000km service
shaft
2 accessory points


Beemer :shit:?

Second the motion, ticks every one of the OPs boxes. As it happens after months of studying and test rides,I bought one today, a R1100rs for exactly the same travelling scenario, great in the twisties, lowish seat, fast, reliable, good fairing but not obtrusive, slim panniers, heated grips, shaft drive etc etc. I'd start at a Beemer and work down.:yes:
Ooh Edit: I just re-read the list, Sounds like a lawn mower but spot on for just about all the others.


Personal choice for me would be the V-Strom 650 having ridden one, but the 1000 has a strong following and plenty of performance. The bikes are cheap enough by comparison to modify in any way you like to suit you and it's a darned good rider who will get away from you if you're on the 1000!

V-Strom 650, every one should try one, very very underrated. A few readily available accessories and you feel like you could take on the world never mind one country. This bike should have sold in the thousands to Kiwis, I have no idea why it hasn't. Oddball looks maybe?

[Edbear]

Second the motion, ticks every one of the OPs boxes. As it happens after months of studying and test rides,I bought one today, a R1100rs for exactly the same travelling scenario, great in the twisties, lowish seat, fast, reliable, good fairing but not obtrusive, slim panniers, heated grips, shaft drive etc etc. I'd start at a Beemer and work down.:yes:
Ooh Edit: I just re-read the list, Sounds like a lawn mower but spot on for just about all the others.



V-Strom 650, every one should try one, very very underrated. A few readily available accessories and you feel like you could take on the world never mind one country. This bike should have sold in the thousands to Kiwis, I have no idea why it hasn't. Oddball looks maybe?

Too many riders are in the "Gixxer mindset", where only a sports bike will do. They put up with sore wrists and necks, frustration at legal speeds and having to be very careful where they ride and park. Higher ownership costs in every area and a bike impractical for anything but the race track. Why? 'Cause they're cool and fast and look great!

I'm convinced that if everyone had to spend a week on a V-Strom 650, and ride it around the Coro, across the Desert Rd, commute to work and go right out to South Head, many would trade their beloved sports bikes on a V-Strom the next day!

[Smifffy]

An older biker that I had a lot of respect for, who did a lot of miles and has since passed on, used to ride a 700 magna. It never seemed to fail him, and he did many of the big rusty rallys etc.

Part of what inspired me to get a cruiser tbh. The Boulevard to me seems to be the more modern incarnation of the style.

Haven't regretted a moment of it. The guy who had mine before me traded it on a V-strom, but then by the mileage figures he hardly ever rode the thing.

[Edbear]

An older biker that I had a lot of respect for, who did a lot of miles and has since passed on, used to ride a 700 magna. It never seemed to fail him, and he did many of the big rusty rallys etc.

Part of what inspired me to get a cruiser tbh. The Boulevard to me seems to be the more modern incarnation of the style.

Haven't regretted a moment of it. The guy who had mine before me traded it on a V-strom, but then by the mileage figures he hardly ever rode the thing.

My other short-listed bike was the V-Strom, but the Boulevard won for the type of riding I mainly do, solo and two-up on sealed roads. I do prefer shaft to chain as well. But I'd dearly love a V-Strom as well, for truly being an all-road, explore the country bike!

[raftn]

These are the type of threads I like, good honest yakking about bikes. None of this crap stuff.

I dont have much experince with different bikes, so i am limited in what I can say. The sprint works for me fine, it has it short comings, but also many good points. but I have always be keen to try a BMW or Multistrada ( THe one looks good the old one looks a bit pig ugly!) and try to get a feel for different bikes.

What ever I ride I just love being out there!

[Ocean1]

Heh, yeah it's always going to be "my bike" innit.

The Buell ticks almost all my boxes, you'd want more range and a taller screen I guess.

Good bits for me are weight (180), good fully adjustable suspension, a mill that very closely matches the traction available from a modern sports tyre and quirky but very sharp handling, less maintenance than a pushbike, belt drive.

Shortfalls for me are the less than bulletproof belt guard and the heavy(er) zorst, (which will survive until the day I get a few hours free). Standard luggage ain't that bulletproof either.

[yachtie10]

My favourite shop is the Honda shop down the road. Honda is country wide, unfortunately, they don't make the bike I want. You have a ST1300 (not so good on gravel and tyres a bit odd), or the Varadero (big and heavy, too off road biased and tyres) or the CB1000R, which isn't practical enough.

I won't even mention the VFR1200F, but I am keeping my ear to the ground on the VFR1200T.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWh4HHIPXcw&feature=related
just in case you havnt seen it

I think the varadero or the vstrom would be my choice just wish they were a bit lighter

Theres also the new triumph 800 which will be worth a look when it arrives

[Devil]

GS, GS , GS.

And dont let on-paper weight concern you.

The GSA fully loaded is the easiest bike i've done U turns on, particularly super low speed. It's also effortless in the twisties, big bars, responsive handling - very litte effort required. I had a ball on it on the coro loop.

I can tell you still haven't ridden one!

[AllanB]

Interesting comments re the Strom family - I agree, in theory they should be the ideal motorcycle for NZ, but darn are they not a bit fugly looking. Bla bla bla it should not matter, but to many, me included it does, it it does not visually float-my-boat when I walk towards it, it is just a utility vehicle.

I don't really understand why the Adventure bikes are all so styled - I guess they are trying to give them a dirt bike look. I'd rather they gave them a street look with dual purpose intentions.

I found this rendering of a Speed Motard - pop some duals on the wheels and hit the back roads. There may be luggage issues...

Man that's a fine looking ride. :yes:

[Ocean1]

The GSA fully loaded is the easiest bike i've done U turns on, particularly super low speed. It's also effortless in the twisties, big bars, responsive handling - very litte effort required. I had a ball on it on the coro loop.


The brother has one, we swap regularly. The GSA feels more like a big chook chaser, the Buell more like a chunky track bike. They're both very comfortable for long rides, the GS has the big tall screen but personally I don't like it. The Buell is quicker both throught an apex and accelerating out. The GS takes less effort, (IE: concentration), on the Buell you need to stay focused.

If we were buying bikes tomorrow for the same purpose we currently use them for I think he'd buy an XB12X. Possibly an XT.

[Ocean1]

There may be luggage issues...

And zorst issues. It's more Cafe racer style, no?

[CRM]

Second the motion, ticks every one of the OPs boxes. As it happens after months of studying and test rides,I bought one today, a R1100rs for exactly the same travelling scenario, great in the twisties, lowish seat, fast, reliable, good fairing but not obtrusive, slim panniers, heated grips, shaft drive etc etc. I'd start at a Beemer and work down.:yes:
Ooh Edit: I just re-read the list, Sounds like a lawn mower but spot on for just about all the others.


V-Strom 650, every one should try one, very very underrated. A few readily available accessories and you feel like you could take on the world never mind one country. This bike should have sold in the thousands to Kiwis, I have no idea why it hasn't. Oddball looks maybe?

What is the lawnmower bit? Sharp handling? I rode a K100LT the other day and it floated around on the corners compared to the VFR. Funny when you start test riding you start appreciating your own bike...

My experience with the VStrom (I did about 6000km on mine) was just couldn't make friends with it. Performance was good, lights were good but just had constant niggles - stretched chain, tyre came apart, panniers way too wide, too tall (I dropped it), ugly, sounded lame, Suzuki :facepalm: (oops)...

[Gremlin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWh4HHIPXcw&feature=related
just in case you havnt seen it

I think the varadero or the vstrom would be my choice just wish they were a bit lighter

Theres also the new triumph 800 which will be worth a look when it arrives
mmmm, no I hadn't seen that, cheers. Looks like it has small tyres again, like Varadero, Tenere, GS etc. Annoying. Still, going to be waiting to see tank size etc, but could be very promising. Looks like it will replace the Varadero as they're similar. Lets hope it drops some weight.

Triumph? Going back to dealers etc weighing into decisions, I will continue to avoid Triumph, Aprilia, Piaggio etc like the plague until Triumph NZ is not in the equation. Pity, as the Tiger 1050 could be a really good model.


GS, GS , GS.

And dont let on-paper weight concern you.

The GSA fully loaded is the easiest bike i've done U turns on, particularly super low speed. It's also effortless in the twisties, big bars, responsive handling - very litte effort required. I had a ball on it on the coro loop.

I can tell you still haven't ridden one!
Indeed I haven't... yet. I don't fully believe paper weights, the KTM is always reviewed as wondering where 50kg went. Its bulk does concern me for tight and or rough stuff. Prepared to give Experience BMW a shot tho, 3 computers raises the risk for me. I think I'll wait until around 2011 when its rumoured BMW will finally figure out how to put all indicators on one switch block.

[Gremlin]

The crossrunner and crosstourer are interesting. Based on photos, the crossrunner is more road biased (so more angled to what I want to do) whereas the crosstourer is more off-road.

Unfortunately, the crossrunner apparently has a tweaked version of the VFR800 VTEC engine, which I hate, but its closer to being reality. The crosstourer looks to have a much better engine (albeit, I haven't ridden a VFR1200F as I'm not interested) being the V4 from the 1200 but probably a bike arriving in 2012. Provided shots are accurate, the crossrunner is fitted with the Pirelli Scorpion Trail tyres (same as new Multistrada) possibly in standard sizes. The crosstourer has narrower tyres, bigger front tyre, so probably very similar to the R1200GS and Tenere 1200, at 110/80/19 and 150/70/17.

No Pirelli Angels in those sizes, but the Scorpion Trail is available, which replaces the Pirelli Scorpion Sync - which I love, having finished 7 sets already.

[martybabe]

What is the lawnmower bit? Sharp handling?

..

? My particular example sounds like a lawn mower to me, certainly not a great sounding bike but hey sharp handling for sure, stable, planted, no wallowing or floating.It may not be up to a VFR, dunno but it's the most competent bike I've ridden For NZs poor roads and I would assume that all it's stable mates are equally adept and composed over less than perfect roads.

Kl100rt :You're talking about the flying brick not the new generation boxers with the para lever dodaky , Gs, R, RS, RT, etc they handle well man.

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[oldrider]

mmmm, no I hadn't seen that, cheers. Looks like it has small tyres again, like Varadero, Tenere, GS etc. Annoying. Still, going to be waiting to see tank size etc, but could be very promising. Looks like it will replace the Varadero as they're similar. Lets hope it drops some weight.

Triumph? Going back to dealers etc weighing into decisions, I will continue to avoid Triumph, Aprilia, Piaggio etc like the plague until Triumph NZ is not in the equation. Pity, as the Tiger 1050 could be a really good model.


Indeed I haven't... yet. I don't fully believe paper weights, the KTM is always reviewed as wondering where 50kg went. Its bulk does concern me for tight and or rough stuff. Prepared to give Experience BMW a shot tho, 3 computers raises the risk for me. I think I'll wait until around 2011 when its rumoured BMW will finally figure out how to put all indicators on one switch block.

"Triumph" Try to keep up people! :done:

I thought this thread was never going to get there! :facepalm:

[george formby]

V-Strom 650, every one should try one, very very underrated. A few readily available accessories and you feel like you could take on the world never mind one country. This bike should have sold in the thousands to Kiwis, I have no idea why it hasn't. Oddball looks maybe?

Probably the same reason TDM's are thin on the ground. they just quietly & efficiently ( standard pipes ) get on with the task in hand rather than promise to increase your sex appeal or impress your mates at the pub. Most of the ones that are out their are probably way out in the boonies having a great time.

[NZsarge]

The crosstourer has narrower tyres, bigger front tyre, so probably very similar to the R1200GS and Tenere 1200, at 110/80/19 and 150/70/17.

No Pirelli Angels in those sizes, but the Scorpion Trail is available, which replaces the Pirelli Scorpion Sync - which I love, having finished 7 sets already.

Just read a test of the BM/Super Ten/Multi and they put them all on Dunlop Roadsmart's, apparently it did them all big favours on the road.

[CRM]

? My particular example sounds like a lawn mower to me, certainly not a great sounding bike but hey sharp handling for sure, stable, planted, no wallowing or floating.It may not be up to a VFR, dunno but it's the most competent bike I've ridden For NZs poor roads and I would assume that all it's stable mates are equally adept and composed over less than perfect roads.

Kl100rt :You're talking about the flying brick not the new generation boxers with the para lever dodaky , Gs, R, RS, RT, etc they handle well man.

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Love that 'R'!!! The flat twins, paralever, front forky things very cool! It was just the K100LT I was dissing. I'm sure they're okay but not the mmm factor of the flat twin. :love:

[grbaker]

When selecting for the Oz trip I looked at and weighted the importance of...

1. Range
2. Comfort
3. Lugage capacity
4. Engine performance / handling etc

and it had to be a bike you would want to ride (ie not a Honda DN-1 or Goldwing etc).

Range - we had to worry about some 350k ish hops between gas stations.
Comfort - we were riding 4-8 hours a day for 30 days. Cruisers / Sports bikes were out.
Lugage - most bikes list their maximum load (including ridder) and have ability to mount panniers easily or not.
Engine performance / handling - no point getting a bike that can handle another 30+Kgs of lugage etc or they handiling is so poor when weighted up. Most bikes are pretty good but settting up for touring can cause issues.


For me it was the DL650, great for the first 3 points, not so good in the handling department once you got the bike heavy (cornering and brakes).
For the wife it was a G650GS BMW... noisy little thumper that did everything asked of it easily. Not a single bad mark except that thumping.
Both got 36l side panniers and a duffle bag full of gear. No misgivings on the selection after 10100km of joyful touring.

[Edbear]

Saw this review on MCUSA. Going to be a bit pricey in NZD but looks a good bike.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/271/8415/Motorcycle-Article/2012-Yamaha-Super-Tenere-First-Ride.aspx

[george formby]

More info/review on the new Triumph, shamelessly pillaged from elsewhere.
http://www.ashonbikes.com/content/triumph-tiger-800-review

[Ocean1]

Saw this review on MCUSA. Going to be a bit pricey in NZD but looks a good bike.

Yes, yes, the 'venture dudes have been anticipating it for yonks. Me, I just can't get my head around 260.8156Kg. Where are they hiding all the ballast? Fuck, that's 85Kg heavier than my Buell, a big fat tourier.

All the new materials, technology, ideas: worthless. New machines have been getting heavier for 20 years, they're fookin heavier every time I look. There's a twinshock PE250 in the workshop, (OK, OK it's not a "'venture" bike, but it's a good example anyway) it's made of recycled allied bomb casings, 2" steam pipe, coca cola cans and tofu and I can pick it up and put it on the welding table.

I don’t understand, why are they lumbering us with these behemoths? Can they not make as much money out of lightweight bikes? And the fact that there are, in fact a couple of freaks that can manage to ride them on a fire break is no help. Fuckit, run out of steam, I’m, off to find me lunch tipple.

[Edbear]

:yes:
Yes, yes, the 'venture dudes have been anticipating it for yonks. Me, I just can't get my head around 260.8156Kg. Where are they hiding all the ballast? Fuck, that's 85Kg heavier than my Buell, a big fat tourier.

All the new materials, technology, ideas: worthless. New machines have been getting heavier for 20 years, they're fookin heavier every time I look. There's a twinshock PE250 in the workshop, (OK, OK it's not a "'venture" bike, but it's a good example anyway) it's made of recycled allied bomb casings, 2" steam pipe, coca cola cans and tofu and I can pick it up and put it on the welding table.

I don’t understand, why are they lumbering us with these behemoths? Can they not make as much money out of lightweight bikes? And the fact that there are, in fact a couple of freaks that can manage to ride them on a fire break is no help. Fuckit, run out of steam, I’m, off to find me lunch tipple.

It's 15kg heavier than my Boulevard! For a 1200cc road cruiser it's acceptable but I'd hate to drop it out in the boondocks somewhere!

My C50T was $14,600 on the road, and I reckon give it a set of appropriate tyres and it'd be a good adventure bike! If it's an all-road rather than off-road bike you're after, it's got unbeatable storage and room, a low CoG, low seat, good low-rpm torque and ideal gearing, shaft drive and heaps of steering leverage. With the rear shock jacked up on its highest setting it's proven comfortable enough solo and good two-up with enough ground clearance for any gravel road.

There you go!

[LBD]

You know my thoughts on what makes good sports tourer, the mts1200....but reading your list, Ithink this bike ....allready mentioned in another post....seems to fit the bill, if you are happy to wait another year or two...

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/624/8332/Motorcycle-Article/Honda-V4-Crosstourer-Concept-Debuts.aspx

[Hailwood]

My 2c worth would be the Buell Ulysses..it does everything you have listed and has all the features except a massive fuel tank still 250kms isnt bad..comfortable on both road and off road, long days, good weather protection

[Ocean1]

has all the features except a massive fuel tank still 250kms isnt bad.

I get a comfortable 300 touring.

But the lights are shit. Must do something about that I suppose.

[Gremlin]

At this stage... I'm waiting for more details on the Honda Crosstourer, and hopefully Honda don't screw it up by putting an 18L tank on it.

Preferring to ignore any brands but KTM, Honda, BMW (ok, maybe Kawasaki now that its Experience) because of dealers doesn't leave much, especially ignoring AMPS and anything Triumph NZ can fuck up.

R1200GS seems to have a lot of niggles with reliability, and I have a pretty good reputation at finding/experiencing issues no-one else does...

[Idubbs]

[QUOTE=LBD;1129908547]You know my thoughts on what makes good sports tourer, the mts1200....but reading your list, Ithink this bike ....allready mentioned in another post....seems to fit the bill, ....

...and I might add (and hopefully not dwell on this little known secret), that you can save $9K just by opting for the standard MTS 1200 model and forgoing just the whistle. The bells still include 4 engine maps, 8 traction control settings and still very good suspension..... and not to mention that engine! Oh.... did I mention THAT engine? :yes:

[LBD]

[QUOTE=LBD;1129908547]
...and I might add (and hopefully not dwell on this little known secret), that you can save $9K just by opting for the standard MTS 1200 model and forgoing just the whistle. The bells still include 4 engine maps, 8 traction control settings and still very good suspension..... and not to mention that engine! Oh.... did I mention THAT engine? :yes:

Yeh..there is the 9K diff.
Yup, the engine is one reason to like the bike....the engine is another....then there is the engine,.... not to mention the engine....:yes:

And the handling should get a mention....

and don't forget the Italien styling...

[SPman]

Does it matter - if you can ride around the world on an R1 with total reliability, then any bike is a contender!
GSXR1000's make good on road tourers......quick, light, 1600km weekends - no problems...

[Gremlin]

Does it matter - if you can ride around the world on an R1 with total reliability, then any bike is a contender!
GSXR1000's make good on road tourers......quick, light, 1600km weekends - no problems...
Just how small are you? GSXR1000's are tiny. 1600km weekends... yes, pretty easy, 1600km in a single ride... more interesting.

No panniers, no off road ability... very little space to even store stuff in the dash area. Too easy to speed...

[sels1]

"Triumph" Try to keep up people! :done:

I thought this thread was never going to get there! :facepalm:

Lol you are dead right there John - the Tiger has always been one of the best all-rounders for NZ conditions.

And it gets better with the new models - the all new Tiger 800 and 800XC - the new go-anywhere-do-anything bikes that tick all the boxes

[gijoe1313]

The interesting thing with this exercise is that everyone has managed to accomplish their goals of riding where they want to via different machines. Gremlin as we all know is in a serious quandary about where to go next with his choice of riding machine.

His beloved KTM has been battle tested and put through a lot of abuse that has exposed engineering defiencies due to a combination of his ability and lack of common sense in the face of adversity.

He is truly stuck for his need for a new machine that can satisfy his vicarious and hyper-milage sorties combined with the attributes he has listed. I have discussed this with him and it worked out that it would be kind of odd to just have a GS adventure set up for just a "couple" of hyper-milage events in NZ (now, I have put to him that one day when we get around to riding the world, we'd be using them more hehehe :msn-wink:)

Refreshing to hear of other rider's responses and experiences to Gremmie's hour of need (oh yeah, we have ascertained the resale value of his beloved Katie is shot, anyone hearing about the stats from this bike will run away screaming! :rolleyes:)

Keep the ideas coming in folks! :yes:

[Digitdion]

What a great thread. Someone commented that all of us have been able to tour using a vast different type of bike. There are so many choices these days, most of them will do the job for us. But will they excell in there primary role? By primary role I mean what you the owner is really into. That can be more than one thing of course.
For me I wanted a bike that had power.plenty for a bit of fun, and that could handle lots of gear and two up touring.
I wanted to get off the beaten track,but a bike that could also boogie on the road. I do not need a bike that has loads of computer stuff, but i did like the idea of ABS for safety on the road. I wanted a quality bike made from quality materials. Fuel range of 300km +. I wanted a bike with personality as well.
My KTM 990 fits the bill for me thats for sure. The only negative is that here in NZ there is very little rear tyre choice. Having said that for me the stock Scorp performs very well. There is alot of comment about the 990 being not comfrtable on long rides but I do not have any probs with this. The Mrs has never complained once, and she has do some big trips with me.
I do kind of like the idea of shaft drive. Maybe in the future KTM might do this. But hey i am being fussy.
There are alot of dual purpose bikes now on the market, but Are they really dual purpose, in the true sense of dual purpose. I think not.

[Stylo]

At this stage... I'm waiting for more details on the Honda Crosstourer, and hopefully Honda don't screw it up by putting an 18L tank on it.

Preferring to ignore any brands but KTM, Honda, BMW (ok, maybe Kawasaki now that its Experience) because of dealers doesn't leave much, especially ignoring AMPS and anything Triumph NZ can fuck up.

R1200GS seems to have a lot of niggles with reliability, and I have a pretty good reputation at finding/experiencing issues no-one else does...

Just clicked on this thread and, very interesting and, each to his own I guess.

Just back from a 2500 km trip , two up from CH Ch around the North Island and did it in 6 days due to time restraints and back again ..what a blast.

Our Bike is a Gen2 'Busa , hardly the perfect machine for the job sure, but we managed by doing it in 90 min squirts ,before both our butts got sore enough to stop for a coffee ..

Funny, we both acknowledge the 'Busa was'nt the perfect touring machine before we left , and of course it probably is'nt but;

If it's all about fun after all and, we had a blast despite all that , and nice to have the power to boot ...my 5 cents what a hoot :yes:

[Idubbs]

As been mentioned without the luxury of owning a different bike for each day of the week, most of us make do with whatever we have. Back in the day....:facepalm: I seem to remember a somewhat eccentric flatmate of mine regularly doing return runs from Wellington to Auckland on a road legalized TL 125! Granted most of us have a primary function for why we purchased said bike, but there's always going to be an occasion that we are going compromise a bit. It comes down to whether you have choices ......or not!

[Gremlin]

His beloved KTM has been battle tested and put through a lot of abuse that has exposed engineering defiencies due to a combination of his ability and lack of common sense in the face of adversity.

(oh yeah, we have ascertained the resale value of his beloved Katie is shot, anyone hearing about the stats from this bike will run away screaming! :rolleyes:
I laughed at the first part bloody hard ya bastid! As we agree tho, any normal bike would probably have been broken 3 times over by now. Indeed, the extra metal thats been welded in is performing faultlessly, and I think 15k ish has been done, with no breakages (a good thing when it took less than 7k to start breaking the subframe before). Stats? Bought new in October 2008, I just dropped her in today for her 60k service. Almost all country mileage, the hornet is used for the 15k a year work stuff. On all the long trips I have done, she's performed faultlessly (besides breaking the subframe a couple of times).

But will they excell in there primary role? By primary role I mean what you the owner is really into. That can be more than one thing of course.

There are alot of dual purpose bikes now on the market, but Are they really dual purpose, in the true sense of dual purpose. I think not.
Yeah, I agree, you can tour on anything, but to put it into perspective, compare to racing. You can race anything, but as you seek to be closer to the front more money is spent, and options are much more restrictive. For me, 1000km is a day ride and could be a mix of gravel and seal, so the bike has to handle both.

Christmas Day I'll be doing a little upper north island tour with the gf on the back, borrowing a blackbird, full luggage. It will be about 2000km over 7 days, 2 days not even riding, watching the racing in Wanganui and Taupo. The bike should be perfect for it, yet I wouldn't want to try my normal exploring of unknown gravel roads. In the same vein, in the last 5 weeks I did 2x 2500km weekends (plus other shorter ones), one the Grand Challenge from Friday night to Monday, and then KoroJ's Capital Cruise, clocking up just under 2500km in 48 hours. Even that had well over 13 hours of no riding during that time.

For me, ultimate means do all. I want to reach a tight twisty road in some remote part of the country and ride it like a motard, but with all my luggage on board (inc panniers etc). I want to cover long distances at pretty much the speed limit without constantly creeping into danger territory, yet when I spy some tiny gravel/dirt road, I want to go exploring... hence the "ultimate country" part.

After all the mods, the KTM 990 Supermoto really is almost there... but I have to keep checking I'm not totally over-doing it, when some other bike would achieve all more easily (with no negatives... :innocent:). Only downsides to the KTM is the seat comfort (has none) and having to fill and make sure 2 fuel tanks are working... With 2 fuel tanks, I can't carry the gf either, and the supermoto even with just the main tank is a bit cramped 2 up.

Something like a Crosstourer or R1200GSA may have the gas range and comfort, but I reckon I'll notice the lack of KTM suspension big time, and handling etc.

Hence the quandry... keep spending on the KTM, or change? :facepalm: To put it all into perspective, 2.5 years ago I had a ZX10R, 500-600km was a big day, and never anything more than a day ride. Since buying the SM, I've done Cape Reinga 3 times, Bluff once, and plenty in between. I now even go looking to prove a road exists, which leads me up all sorts of roads. Factoring this into the equation... who knows where my riding will go? I do know I'm not quite up to river fording yet, and still enjoy big distances on seal. :wings:

[Hinny]

I think you were on the money when considering the Honda ST.
Follow KoroJ to see how well they handle two up. So smooth.
Awesome range (500kms) So comfortable and fast you can do that in one stint no worries.
Takes a good rider on a chain driven Sports bike to beat one off the line. (I would imagine - hasn't happened to me)
Loads of carrying capacity with a slim profile - not having to clear high slung mufflers.
Most winning bike in Iron Butt challenge. 1600kms/day for 11 days in a row.
Handle gravel with aplomb.
Low COG - especially the older ST1100s. Handle like a 250
Popular belief is that one design criteria was for the bike to be able to average 160kms an hour for a tankful of gas.ie. 500kms. ... so 100kms an hour is very comfortable.

[gijoe1313]

On another tack, this thread is invaluable to me also since gremlin and I are of the same mind when it comes to doing this sort of stuff (though I think it means the world is doomed to implosion).

The CAB I get from this means gremlin is my crash test dummy .. er, I meant point man:innocent: Anything that satisfies his requirements would easily satisy mine ... since I don't cram all the available space with wire and electrical doohickies he is so fond of.

I think another factor he forgot was ... will it all go pear shaped once he fords his first river with all of this kit on! :facepalm: (imagine his KTM with 4X4 air breather pipes and zorst extendas :blink:)

[insane1]

well hers something completley diffrent can-am spyder rs-s 990 rotax good on road off road will have to pinch one for a day to find out.

[Gremlin]

I think you were on the money when considering the Honda ST.
I do have a soft spot for it, shaft is easier maintenance, big tank etc.

However, when I say I like gravel etc, perhaps these couple of pics will show what I get up to? This is about my limit tho, I was by myself, and in the 2nd pic I went through the foreground, but turned around, as it got worse ahead, and again, by myself, not a good idea.

[Hinny]

Those pumice roads wash out pretty easy but are easy to ride, The second on looks like dirt. Honda Africa Twin country. Ford rivers, climb mountains.
Steve Smith in the Iron Butt rally went to Prudhoe Bay in Alaska one year on his ST1100 400 miles of dirt road. Some of the other competitors got their bikes inextricably bogged in the mud. Steve made in back and would have won had the rally organisers not announced Prudhoe Bay as a bonus destination, worth 1,000,000 points, after he had been there. That 400 niles of dirt was part of the 1000 + miles he averaged per day, for 11 consecutive days.
Just the sort of ride you would like to do eh? Definitely need a sheepskin or an Airhawk for that sort of butt punishment.

[Jantar]

I apologise. I saw this thread briefly when it started, but I've been too busy riding to post on it till now. Over 4000 km in the past 10 days. Oh, it was on a Vstrom 1000. :yes:

[Hinny]

...perhaps these couple of pics will show what I get up to.

These few pics will show you what I get up to.
224285224286224288224289

[Gremlin]

These few pics will show you what I get up to.
224285224286224288224289
invalid attachments... cool! :yes:

[Hinny]

invalid attachments... cool! :yes:

Feck!
Give me a drink.
You too will grow old Grasshopper.

224324224325224326

[Devil]

Yes, yes, the 'venture dudes have been anticipating it for yonks. Me, I just can't get my head around 260.8156Kg. Where are they hiding all the ballast? Fuck, that's 85Kg heavier than my Buell, a big fat tourier.

Come on man. Apples with apples. That 260kg is the full wet weight of the tenere. Full tank etc.
Your buell, sans luggage with a full tank of gas is about 225kg. Which incidentally is the same weight as a standard GS with a full tank of gas.

Forget dry weights. They're absolutely useless.

[Gremlin]

Forget dry weights. They're absolutely useless.
I'd pretty much agree with Devil. Weights do provide some indication, but certainly not the full story. If there was a dry weight of 260, you'd have to really start wondering.

However, two bikes with similar weight and power (lets take the Hornet CB900 and KTM 990 SM) can be incredibly different. Less than 10kg between them, and less than 10hp. The KTM feels muuuuch lighter on its feet due to suspension and distribution of weight, and the power delivery is dramatically different. More weight can make a bigger job for suspension etc, but distribution of the weight (for better or worse) can make a big difference you'll only find out by riding.

I certainly hope that adventure/dual purpose/touring riders never start comparing grams of difference between bikes like sportsbike riders.

[Hinny]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/131415-nice-africa-twin

[KoroJ]

It's hard to find the perfect bike but....!

...but a Pan European is as close to it as you'll get!!??...(for the long stuff on sealed roads).


Of course it would help a heap if you decided what you really want.

[junkmanjoe]

being a ex road bike rider.....

i wanted to expand my horizons and follow that road the disappeared round that tight skinny bend.

and beleve me, when you start heading of the main hiways..theres a lot of country out there in our own back yard... heaps of small and forgotten settlements that modern life just flys past....

so i settled on the KTM 950 Adventure.
my reasons.

i wanted
a bike capable to travel at open road speed all day long,
a bike capable of touring the skinny roads of nz back country,
a bike to travel open and tight gravel roads.
a bike to potter around town and up and down some of our beaches.
a comfortable bike as you have to sit on it all day long.
a good looking bike, people still ask what is it some times.
a bike capable to carry camp gear and luggage with out trouble.
a bike with a reasonable fuel range
a bike that wasn't to heavy to hang on to all day.
a bike capable to climb mountain tracks and forest trails

the longest day in the saddle on the 950 was 842 km...i enjoyed every km of that day.

so for me the KTM 950 adventure is the Ultimate Country Tourer.

JMJ

[BMWST?]

I'd pretty much agree with Devil. Weights do provide some indication, but certainly not the full story. If there was a dry weight of 260, you'd have to really start wondering.

However, two bikes with similar weight and power (lets take the Hornet CB900 and KTM 990 SM) can be incredibly different. Less than 10kg between them, and less than 10hp. The KTM feels muuuuch lighter on its feet due to suspension and distribution of weight, and the power delivery is dramatically different. More weight can make a bigger job for suspension etc, but distribution of the weight (for better or worse) can make a big difference you'll only find out by riding.

I certainly hope that adventure/dual purpose/touring riders never start comparing grams of difference between bikes like sportsbike riders.

I reckon you have to try a 1200 gs,a gsa and a supertenere.

[Hinny]

A BMW = the wrong bike.
See here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu4hhbrCDAI

[george formby]

A BMW = the wrong bike.
See here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu4hhbrCDAI

I've just wee'd myself a bit :killingme:killingme:killingme

[Ocean1]

Come on man. Apples with apples. That 260kg is the full wet weight of the tenere. Full tank etc.
Your buell, sans luggage with a full tank of gas is about 225kg. Which incidentally is the same weight as a standard GS with a full tank of gas.


OK, OK, I exagerated slightly.

XB12X is 192.8Kg, add 16.5 litres of fuell and 2.3 litres of oil and you get about 206Kg.

A mere 60mumble Kg lighter then.


Forget dry weights. They're absolutely useless.

Are not. Oh yes some bikes carry their weight in different places and that affects handling and general low speed managability. And in fact Buell's "mass centralisation" design philosophy means it feels porkier than it actually is. Nonetheless, overall mass is a significant factor in every single performance criteria which might contribute to any rational purchase decision.

And that's before you get to the apples / apples bit: The Buell's a bloody tourer, not some suposedly grown-up trail bike. Chrissake, anything dirt-worthy has no right packin' anything like that much fat, certainly not for mortals like me.

[Gremlin]

Ocean, you need to compare the Buell to the R1200GS, not GS Adventure, more similar. The GS is a lot lighter than the adventure.

In other news, I popped into Haldanes. No MTS1200 on the floor (2 coming), and was told firmly a larger tank was not available as an option at all. No point going from the KTM to an MTS1200 at all then.

[Devil]

OK, OK, I exagerated slightly.

XB12X is 192.8Kg, add 16.5 litres of fuell and 2.3 litres of oil and you get about 206Kg.

A mere 60mumble Kg lighter then.
.

Buell quote that the XB12X is 225-230kg wet.
You're missing the battery, coolant, brake fluid and whatever else they decided to leave off the bike at the time. Possibly tyres too.
Which makes it pretty much the same as the standard GS as I said.

[Hinny]

Similar thread.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/131895-ST-GS-or-R/page2

[terbang]

Well its got to be a big dualsport (adventure) bike. My Cagiva Navigator ticks most of the boxes easily except only 20L fuel.
I often ride in company with a KTM 990 adventure, its as ugly as sin, but probably ticks all of the boxes.

[pritch]

I don’t really want to go off-road so I’m more interested in a road bike. I used to take the K100RS up dirt roads to trout pools and that’d be about the extent of my off-road ambitions.

The big tourers are so much more comfortable over bumps than the smaller sport tourers like the VFR, but we can work on that to some extent.

One KBer rates the Street Triple as a mile muncher and has done the miles to back that up, and I’m sure the Hornet 600 could do a turn too. Although some sort of screen would be nice for longer trips.

First thing I look at on a spec sheet is the tank size. This can be misleading though, some of the 800 BMWs have a 15L tank but they have exceptional fuel economy and should still do 300Ks to a tank. That should be enough for NZ conditions, we aren’t exactly crossing the former Soviet Union.

My S4R has a 15L tank but Alas! it doesn’t have BMW fuel economy.

Next thing is seat height. I never thought of myself as a short arse but the tall rounders and the entire KTM range would probably make manoeuvring on rough ground difficult. So the second thing I usually look at is seat height.

A spec sheet that shows tyre sizes 120/70 and 180/55 x 17 gladdens the heart and allows a great choice of rubber.

Having a set of Givi V35 boxes and inner bags here it’d be nice to find a bike that takes them but the only one I’ve seen so far is the Hornet.

The Tiger 800 looks nice and not too tall but the panniers add about another $1800 to whatever the price will be. Normally the price isn’t too important but I want to have the house rewired before winter comes around again.

A Ventura rack is gaining appeal. Not as elegant as leaving the hard panniers on the bike and walking into a hotel with two soft bags but…

So far the bikes on my list are a diverse lot: F800R, Aprilia Shiver GT, CB1000R,
Street Triple or Tiger 800, or thinking big the CB1300S. If I could stretch to a bit more cash the Kawasaki Z1000SX would be a starter as would the Triumph Sprint. Of course the CBF1000F would do it for me but as written elsewhere Blue Wing don’t bring it in.

The list will likely get longer before it gets shorter.

[Edbear]

Yup, and if you can do the rounds and ride as many bikes as possible you may even find the one for you.... :sunny: or you'll just confuse yourself even more! :blink:

[martybabe]

Of course the CBF1000F would do it for me but as written elsewhere Blue Wing don’t bring it in.

.

That's a damn shame I knew a fella on Jersey that swapped his VFR for a CBF1000f and couldn't get his head round how much better the CBF was. A brilliant package by all accounts. Do they not do grey imports in NZ?

[pritch]

BIKE recently tested the new CBF1000F, they said it is quite a lot more expensive than the old one but not *that* much better. The new one is a bit better looking though. They recommended checking dealers for old stock.

Chance'd be a fine thing.:facepalm:

[insane1]

dont shoot the big burgers till you have ridden one for a while mines on 60,000kms in nearly 3 years gone everywhere and on every surface try one you might just be suprised.

[Gremlin]

My new steed shall be in my hands on Saturday. Deal was finalised yesterday...

[spacemonkey]

WHat did ya get in the end? :)

[Hinny]

WHat did ya get in the end? :)

And with baited breath ... we wait.

[Gremlin]

Alright alright, I got a lovely tractor. A 2010 R1200GSA :lol:

[Ocean1]

Alright alright, I got a lovely tractor. A 2010 R1200GSA :lol:

And it looks like...

[Hinny]

Alright alright, I got a lovely tractor. A 2010 R1200GSA :lol:
No matter what you bought, someone would say you bought the wrong bike.

To alleviate any post-purchase cognisance, take heart from this....
<object width="640" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eLHc0VgQx_o?fs=1&hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></object>

So; is it going to take you to the Cape with the Northern Exposure Tour?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/132315-Northern-Exposure-Tour-2011

[Gremlin]

And with baited breath ... we wait.


And it looks like...
A picture is worth a thousand words... but you get some words too...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/1940-My-new-Steed!-%2815-01-2011%29

[Stylo]

Buell quote that the XB12X is 225-230kg wet.
You're missing the battery, coolant, brake fluid and whatever else they decided to leave off the bike at the time. Possibly tyres too.
Which makes it pretty much the same as the standard GS as I said.

Don't discount the option that we've taken for a touring Bike, an awesome point to point machine and a great road trip Bike, Just back from Mt Cook this morning....


:yes:

[Gremlin]

I've just finished my first proper ride on the GSA, popping up north to see the people staying near Waipapakauri, on the Northern Exposure Tour. On the way home I stopped by Cape Reinga. Sore across the chest from the new seating position, but wow, what a mile muncher. Set to comfort while going down motorways, then set to sport when you want to turn up the pace. A real Jekyll and Hyde bike that's vastly capable.

[Bass]

I see some mild knobblies in your future - not soon perhaps, but they are definitely there.

[Gremlin]

I see some mild knobblies in your future - not soon perhaps, but they are definitely there.
Too much road riding currently... I'll stick to road biased tyres, and keep the real adventure stuff for later... Everything short of real rough stuff can be done on 80-20 ish tyres anyway...

[Devil]

Too much road riding currently... I'll stick to road biased tyres, and keep the real adventure stuff for later... Everything short of real rough stuff can be done on 80-20 ish tyres anyway...

Except for the wet smooth stuff ;)

[Ocean1]

I see some mild knobblies in your future - not soon perhaps, but they are definitely there.

18" / 19"? Not a huge selection to choose from I don't think. At least not of the 2" cube knob type ones similar to the standard livery.

[george formby]

Too much road riding currently... I'll stick to road biased tyres, and keep the real adventure stuff for later... Everything short of real rough stuff can be done on 80-20 ish tyres anyway...

Rode about 60k of gravel, wash outs, slips, corrugations & gravel drifts 2 up yesterday with no problems on sport touring tires. I must admit to being very, very, very focused at times.

[george formby]

18" / 19"? Not a huge selection to choose from I don't think. At least not of the 2" cube knob type ones similar to the standard livery.

Sweet FA in 18"!

[Devil]

18" / 19"? Not a huge selection to choose from I don't think. At least not of the 2" cube knob type ones similar to the standard livery.

TKC80s, Karoo's, E09's, E10's, Heidenau's. Easily located.

[Bass]

Everything short of real rough stuff can be done on 80-20 ish tyres anyway...

True, but you can do non-seal faster on knobblies and therefore more of it.
You can also get yourself much further into the crap however