Police crackdown

[Ronin]

Should be fun.


Hi,
A new news release is available for you to view on the Police website:
Title: A month of motorcycles
If you are a motorcyclist or moped rider and are involved in a crash, the risk of you being killed or seriously injured is approximately 18 times greater than if you are in a car.
That is why Highway Patrol staff in Central District are about to embark on a month-long motorcycle safety and awareness campaign.
In Central District alone 14 riders have been killed in the last two years, and New Zealand has seen an increase in deaths since 2005 partly attributed to the quadrupling of motorcycle registrations since 2000.
Senior Sergeant Kris Burbery said: "Fuel prices, congestion, environmental awareness, and a rise in popularity among more mature riders has also accounted for some of the increase."
From Monday, 15 November, through to Sunday 19 December, Police will be proactively speaking to motorcycle and moped riders. They will be focusing on vehicle conditions, safety equipment, clothing, licences, rider behaviour and legal compliance.
Checkpoints and surveys will also be a part of the campaign with the support of partners agencies such as ACC. All motorcyclists and moped riders will be provided with a safety flyer.
"The risks are particularly high for this specific group of motorists. We fully accept that crashes involving motorcyclists are not always the fault of the rider, but there are still safety measures riders can take to improve their chances,' said Senior Sergeant Burbery. "A number of police staff are avid motorcyclists, so we are personally aware of the danger and vulnerability of being on a motorcycle.
"Although enforcement will be an element of the campaign, the primary focus is education and promoting improved safety and riding practices. Longer days and warmer weather will see more riders take to the roads and we want them to make sure that they get home again safely.
"We hope this operation will give us a good understanding of motorcycles and motorcyclists in the District and a success for us would be to find that our riders are travelling safely, their bikes are up to standard and they have the required licences."
Some key safety tips are as follows:
• Make sure you have appropriate licence for the size of motorcycle.
• Ensure the vehicle is safe, registered and warranted.
• Make sure you wear the appropriate safety clothing and footwear. No bare skin and jandals!
• Make sure you wear an approved safety helmet.
• It is mandatory to always have a headlight on if riding on a motorcycle on the road.
• Ensure you comply with any conditions of a graduated (learner or restricted) drivers' licence.
Media enquiries should be referred to Communications Manager Kim Perks on 027 234 8256.

[MSTRS]

I'll say the same thing here as I said in the Waikato thread on the same subject...
If some spotty faced little cuntstable thinks he can stop me to 'give a lecture on the dangers of motorcycling and safe riding' ... then he can talk to the hand.
Appropriate licence...check
Regd...check
Wof...check
Helmet...check
Other gear...check
Chat/lecture...fuck off.

[Waxxa]

perhaps we can produce a leaflet of our own to give to the police "how to U-turn safely". Then we can reciprocate the kind gesture...

[MSTRS]

Now you're talking...

[bogan]

perhaps we can produce a leaflet of our own to give to the police "how to U-turn safely". Then we can reciprocate the kind gesture...

:lol: tis a brilliant idea that one.

also, riding with the headlight on is (to my knowledge, and I checked the regs not long ago) not compulsory, daytime running lights are, there is a difference.

[Katman]

If some spotty faced little cuntstable thinks he can stop me to 'give a lecture on the dangers of motorcycling and safe riding' ... then he can talk to the hand.


Perhaps I might be able to lecture them. :eek:

[MSTRS]

also, riding with the headlight on is (to my knowledge, and I checked the regs not long ago) not compulsory, daytime running lights are, there is a difference.
I think you will find it is Headlight or DRL if fitted. Either way, a white light to the front at all times is reqd.


Perhaps I might be able to lecture them. :eek:

Now that I'd pay to see.

[bogan]

I think you will find it is Headlight or DRL if fitted. Either way, a white light to the front at all times is reqd.


DRL is also defined as indicators being on all the time, but that was from wiki as I couldn't find what DRL is defined as in NZ





Now that I'd pay to see.

same here, please put it on the youtube for us!

[SMOKEU]

I think you will find it is Headlight or DRL if fitted. Either way, a white light to the front at all times is reqd.


Depends how old the bike is.

[nodrog]

Where is the Central District? Or is it just the middle of everywhere they will be policing?

Fanny

[Ronin]

Where is the Central District? Or is it just the middle of everywhere they will be policing?

Fanny

From memory, Central are the fine folks who bought us "cross the line and get snapped by a cop in the bush" game which would make it Manawatuish up.

Yup. Manawatu up the West coast...

http://www.police.govt.nz/district/index.html

[Marmoot]

"We hope this operation will give us a good understanding of motorcycles and motorcyclists in the District and a success for us would be to find that our riders are travelling safely, their bikes are up to standard and they have the required licences."
Some key safety tips are as follows:

* Blow on the pie.
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/blow-pie-cop-internet-hit-3090178

[Mully]

I like the "rise" in deaths being attributable to a "quadrupling" of motorcycle registrations (date mismatch notwithstanding) - I presume the rise in deaths hasn't been a quadrupling then?

[Dave Lobster]

Police states attached

[AllanB]

DRL was one of the robots in the original Star Wars movie.

While I thank them for their attempts at motorcycle education, I do wonder if their efforts would be more effective if they were educating the other road users to be more aware of motorcycles.

Maybe some catchy billboard slogans would help.

'Lock up your daughters - motorcyclists may be around the corner'

'Pull out carefully - you may have a motorcyclist up your rear'

'Be aware of Suzukis - they may crash anytime, anywhere'

[Ronin]

DRL was one of the robots in the original Star Wars movie.

While I thank them for their attempts at motorcycle education, I do wonder if their efforts would be more effective if they were educating the other road users to be more aware of motorcycles.

Maybe some catchy billboard slogans would help.

'Lock up your daughters - motorcyclists may be around the corner'

'Pull out carefully - you may have a motorcyclist up your rear'

'Be aware of Suzukis - they may crash anytime, anywhere'

'Hondas cum from behind'

[NighthawkNZ]

Ensure the vehicle is safe, registered and warranted.How is a bike being registered or not classed as a safety check? Has nothing to do with safety.

safety: W.o.F yes, Registered no...


Make sure you wear the appropriate safety clothing and footwear. No bare skin and jandals!Technically they can not do or say anything about this because it is not law. And I would be telling them till it is law stop lecturing...

Even though I wear ATGATT and cringe when I see shorts and t-shirt, by law the rider is allowed to wear wear shorts, and t-shirt and is their freedom of choice.

[Squiggles]

Technically they can not do or say anything about this because it is not law. And I would be telling them till it is law stop lecturing...

Even though I wear ATGATT and cringe when I see shorts and t-shirt, by law he is allowed to and has freedom of choice.

Informed choices are always best imo

[bogan]

I like the "rise" in deaths being attributable to a "quadrupling" of motorcycle registrations (date mismatch notwithstanding) - I presume the rise in deaths hasn't been a quadrupling then?

not sure what they mean by quadrupling tbh, cos the registered motorcycle numbers have almost doubled since 2000, deaths up around 50% though.

[Latte]

How is a bike being registered or not classed as a safety check? Has nothing to do with safety.

safety: W.o.F yes, Registered no...

Technically they can not do or say anything about this because it is not law. And I would be telling them till it is law stop lecturing...

Even though I wear ATGATT and cringe when I see shorts and t-shirt, by law the rider is allowed to wear wear shorts, and t-shirt and is their freedom of choice.


I read it as "Ensure the vehicle is Safe and warranted and registered" , you seem to have read it as "Ensure the vehicle is Safe: warranted and registered"


EDIT: Didn't bother to read the "Safety Tips" line - doh :) - disregard

[Scuba_Steve]

I read it as "Ensure the vehicle is Safe and warranted and registered" , you seem to have read it as "Ensure the vehicle is Safe: warranted and registered"


EDIT: Didn't bother to read the "Safety Tips" line - doh :) - disregard

I think you might have been right in your reading of it as it does say safe, registered & WOF'd but he is also right in that reg has NOTHING to do with safety (which apparently is what this is about) neither is
• Make sure you have appropriate licence for the size of motorcycle.
• Ensure you comply with any conditions of a graduated (learner or restricted) drivers' licence.

[MSTRS]

not sure what they mean by quadrupling tbh, cos the registered motorcycle numbers have almost doubled since 2000, deaths up around 50% though.

Sneaky bastards mean NEW registrations have quadrupled. But the actual number of bikes on the road has approximately doubled, as have injuries.

[scumdog]

perhaps we can produce a leaflet of our own to give to the police "how to U-turn safely". Then we can reciprocate the kind gesture...

Nice troll!

Number of 'unsafe U-turns killing somebody' by Police: 1

Number of 'riding like a fuckwit and killing self/others by bikers': gazzilion.

I guess the Police will need a shit-load more pamphlets than the bikers eh??:msn-wink:

[MSTRS]

No. of 'unsafe U-turns injuring somebody and causing general carnage in the name of road safety' by Police: I see your gazillion...and raise it by one.

[scumdog]

No. of 'unsafe U-turns injuring somebody and causing general carnage in the name of road safety' by Police: I see your gazillion...and raise it by one.

Wow, do tell me about the gazzillion minus one that I never heard about!:blink:

[bogan]

I guess the Police will need a shit-load more pamphlets than the bikers eh??:msn-wink:

most certainly, I'm sure police will receive instruction on the proper place to stick said pamphlets, must make sure there is enough :yes:

[MSTRS]

Wow, do tell me about the gazzillion minus one that I never heard about!:blink:

Don't have the stats to hand (do they even exist?) but I know of at least 5 occasions were a u-turning cop caused either injury or general mayhem in trying to avoid. Buller Gorge counts as 1 event in this case, even though 2 were severely injured...

[Scuba_Steve]

Nice troll!

Number of 'unsafe U-turns killing somebody' by Police: 1

Number of 'riding like a fuckwit and killing self/others by bikers': gazzilion.

I guess the Police will need a shit-load more pamphlets than the bikers eh??:msn-wink:

umm... "police car doing a U-turn to chase a speeding driver is the fifth such accident involving a police vehicle since 2007." as at 20/04/2010

[scumdog]

umm... "police car doing a U-turn to chase a speeding driver is the fifth such accident involving a police vehicle since 2007." as at 20/04/2010

Splitting hairs but I was refering to motorbikes.

[Max Preload]

Make sure you wear the appropriate safety clothing and footwear. No bare skin and jandals! Technically they can not do or say anything about this because it is not law. And I would be telling them till it is law stop lecturing...Tell them you already have a Mum but if she dies they can apply for the job.

[cheshirecat]

Their safety advice contains nothing about riding then. Just legalities when stationary.

[ducatilover]

Interesting and pointless.
Am I going to sell my motorcycle because of an arrogant and lie filled lecture from (chances are) a person with little or no experience on a motorcycle?
What a stupid, pointless waste of tax payer funding. I am not listening to any lectures, I am well aware of the dangers of motorcycles, guns, knives, pizza ovens, broken condoms and alcohol. I do not need an officer to repeat any issues that I am quite aware of...
Rant....argh.

[red mermaid]

From the reaction on here it is evident education is not going to be welcomed, so that only leaves enforcement.

[bogan]

From the reaction on here it is evident education is not going to be welcomed, so that only leaves enforcement.

firstly, if you guys are checking wof/reg as well, this is an enforcement operation as well. Secondly, if the recent police releases on the subject of motorcycles are anything to go by, the lexture will be filled with a misleading antimotorcycle propaganda. Tell ya what though, if it proves to be a helpful educational stop, I won't tell you to shove the flyer up your arse.

[ducatilover]

From the reaction on here it is evident education is not going to be welcomed, so that only leaves enforcement.

So how are they going to enforce anything when they pull up a perfectly legal rider and bike? :innocent:

[scumdog]

Interesting and pointless.
Am I going to sell my motorcycle because of an arrogant and lie filled lecture from (chances are) a person with little or no experience on a motorcycle?
What a stupid, pointless waste of tax payer funding. I am not listening to any lectures, I am well aware of the dangers of motorcycles, guns, knives, pizza ovens, broken condoms and alcohol. I do not need an officer to repeat any issues that I am quite aware of...
Rant....argh.

I wonder who forgot to warn the dudes in the cemeteries that motorcycles, guns, yadda,yadda,yadda were dangerous then???:blink:

[ducatilover]

I wonder who forgot to warn the dudes in the cemeteries that motorcycles, guns, yadda,yadda,yadda were dangerous then???:blink:

The schools or parents, don't thwart my rant :facepalm:

[red mermaid]

Hold on we have a Tui moment of gigantic proportion...Yeah Right!



firstly, if you guys are checking wof/reg as well, this is an enforcement operation as well. Secondly, if the recent police releases on the subject of motorcycles are anything to go by, the lexture will be filled with a misleading antimotorcycle propaganda. Tell ya what though, if it proves to be a helpful educational stop, I won't tell you to shove the flyer up your arse.

[bogan]

Hold on we have a Tui moment of gigantic proportion...Yeah Right!

think that constitutes a double negative bro...

[jtzzr]

I`m looking forward to getting a pamphlet , something at last from our increased acc levies. :corn:

[munster]

My mate got stopped in his Holden recently as his tail light was out. This is a frequent occurrence (some niggly short) and he keeps a spare bulb in the glovebox. He changed it on the spot, Cop was happy, everything else was OK and he got given a McDonalds voucher for his troubles.:woohoo:

Where's my McDonalds voucher? You can stop me anytime, just give me a voucher and a cuppa tea.:yes:

[mashman]

From the reaction on here it is evident education is not going to be welcomed, so that only leaves enforcement.

If that's the case. Perhaps the local bigwigs would attend a few regional motorcycling meetings. I'm sure some of you would love a chat. T'would save the tax payer a heap of money, a few bigwigs v's the whole force stopping work for a chat with a passing motorcyclist :)

[Gremlin]

Can I have a subway voucher? (mcdonalds is shit)

I'm happy to receive tips... I'd love getting my hands on some of the training the bike cops get.

I don't appreciate a cop with no experience of bikes telling me what to do, when I clock up 1000km+ in a single ride, have ridden all night on plenty of occasions, handled freezing temperatures and my gear costs thousands of dollars (and some specially imported as its not widely available here).

Now of course, not everyone is the same... but blanket pulling everyone and treating everyone the same is hardly going to impress me.

[red mermaid]

Stop it, you are completely ruining this thread.

Now back to the key board heros and there brave ignorant rants....


My mate got stopped in his Holden recently as his tail light was out. This is a frequent occurrence (some niggly short) and he keeps a spare bulb in the glovebox. He changed it on the spot, Cop was happy, everything else was OK and he got given a McDonalds voucher for his troubles.:woohoo:

Where's my McDonalds voucher? You can stop me anytime, just give me a voucher and a cuppa tea.:yes:

[ducatilover]

On reflection, this will save my life, all others too. The road toll will be greatly dropped and we will get free cake.

[red mermaid]

Exactly, and if some hadn't jumped on there high horses they would read in the press realease that some members of the Central District Highway Patrol are not only motorcyclists but very experienced ones at that.



Can I have a subway voucher? (mcdonalds is shit)

I'm happy to receive tips... I'd love getting my hands on some of the training the bike cops get.

I don't appreciate a cop with no experience of bikes telling me what to do, when I clock up 1000km+ in a single ride, have ridden all night on plenty of occasions, handled freezing temperatures and my gear costs thousands of dollars (and some specially imported as its not widely available here).

Now of course, not everyone is the same... but blanket pulling everyone and treating everyone the same is hardly going to impress me.

[bogan]

On reflection, this will save my life, all others too. The road toll will be greatly dropped and we will get free cake.

this changes everything, nobody said there would be cake!

[Gremlin]

Exactly, and if some hadn't jumped on there high horses they would read in the press realease that some members of the Central District Highway Patrol are not only motorcyclists but very experienced ones at that.
reeeaaaaddddd? Owwwwwww :innocent:

Sweet... I'll come say hello... only problem was, I was passing through that area about 4 times just last weekend... This weekend I think I'll only go as far south as mid north island... so another weekend...

[ducatilover]

this changes everything, nobody said there would be cake!

There is in my mind. :woohoo::scooter:

[riffer]

Yawn.

Surely any motorcyclist who's been riding for a while would know that every November the Police do a little Motorcycle Safety thing for that month, as registrations spike in that time as a lot of rider come back to the road for summer.

As for checking regos, it's possible I guess to draw the conclusion that someone who isn't going to rego the bike is going to be slack in other areas, so it's arguable there's a safety connection there.

As for what the cops are going to talk about you're completely speculating but nothing new there, this is Kiwibitcher after all.

God forbid anyone actually tries to do something to make a difference to motorcylists on the road. Oh wait I forgot, you're all such fantastic fucking riders that you never make mistakes. It's always those brain-dead cagers isn't it?

Cry me a river. Just about every cop I've ever been stopped by has been a motorcyclist or used to be one. They're really not out to get you, despite what the trolls think.

[Ocean1]

the primary focus is education

Yeah. 'Cause we're all SO in need of enlightenment.

Sanctimonious wanker.


I`m looking forward to getting a pamphlet , something at last from our increased acc levies. :corn:

Be good if they were sorta textured. And absorbant.

[Katman]

The Super Nanny programme is playing on the TV at the moment.

This thread reminds me of the screaming, spoilt and self-absorbed little fucks on that show.

[Ocean1]

They're really not out to get you, despite what the trolls think.

I've been stopped maybe half a dozzen times, I mean in the safety / lecture situation. About lectures or advice they've never said boo. Just checked WOF and Reg and "have a nice day sir".

So what's the purpose of the campaign again?

[red mermaid]

You've got a good signature there...



Sanctimonious wanker.
.

[Ocean1]

You've got a good signature there...

Help yourself, dude.

[scumdog]

The Super Nanny programme is playing on the TV at the moment.

This thread reminds me of the screaming, spoilt and self-absorbed little fucks on that show.
Eh, what?:blink:

Never....

[DMNTD]

Perhaps I might be able to lecture them. :eek:

I'll chip in for gas and expect rolling footage! :woohoo:

[Katman]

and expect rolling footage! :woohoo:

Hey, I'm clean man.

[Conquiztador]

Brilliant use of that additional $30 all bikers now pay as part of ACC! If the leaflets are in colour they will cost approx 5 cents each to produce. So my aim will be to gather 600 of them and I have my money back!

[mashman]

I like the "rise" in deaths being attributable to a "quadrupling" of motorcycle registrations (date mismatch notwithstanding) - I presume the rise in deaths hasn't been a quadrupling then?

From MOT. My god man you're right... in fact we've just had the 3 lowest out of the 10 years listed, in the last 4 years.

Year Road deaths
2000 462
2001 455
2002 404
2003 461
2004 436
2005 405
2006 391
2007 422
2008 366
2009 384

[Brian d marge]

Not being hypocritical here , if I was stopped for educational purposes , I would have no problem ,
ie , sorry just want to have a chat about biking and safety , do you have a min

and if there was a cup of coffee involve ,,great

but if its a sneaky way to check for something to fine you with , say a lapsed rego ,,for which I may or may not be paying due to ACC beyond my control

( why DO we pay rego anyway ?)



then is a police state and books should be stacked as to prevent the spread of scurrilous lies against Herr Key ( what a nice man he is , such a pleasant smile )

Stephen

[Genie]

Don't have the stats to hand (do they even exist?) but I know of at least 5 occasions were a u-turning cop caused either injury or general mayhem in trying to avoid. Buller Gorge counts as 1 event in this case, even though 2 were severely injured...

Have to say, police are in fact human and they do make mistakes. Had a rather nasty one not along ago here in Nelly town which resulted in the death of a child...sad to say these things do happen and will continue to do so, but, if we, public and police have more awareness perhaps the occurance of these types of accidents maybe diminish. (but that's in my dream land)

[davereid]

The facts are irrelevant.. police think motorcyclists need targeting and they will target them.

The law gives them the power to stop you for any reason, and you just have to put up with it.

I will be watching with interest, as of course I remain the careful, accident free high annual mileage rider of a warranted but unregistered motorcycle.

Maybe after all these years I get to meet red-mermaid as he writes me a ticket for no rego !

[Mom]

Did you guys see that new item last night regarding the use of knives in NZ? The family of a guy stabbed being a good samaratin are calling for changes to the police powers of search. They want the wording of the law on searching people changed so the police dont need any suspicion or evidence that someone is carrying a knife or what have you, they can simply stop you and search you. Appalling!

I see this as something similar, if I am not doing anything wrong, why should I be stopped going about my lawful business to have a revenue gathering excercise thinly disguised as a "safety talk"?

Oh and I expect I would fail the attitude test if I was stopped, my bike is fully legal, I am fully licenced and I dont as a rule exceed the speed limit. I dont drink and drive either.

[MSTRS]

Roadside chats = bullshit. If cops were really interested in motorcycle safety, they'd be pushing for this sort of thing. I'll be there doing my bit, using my experience to help other riders, so don't tell me I'm a narrow-minded, keyboard hero.


‘Motorcyclist Open Day’

‘Whether you’re new to motorcycling or have been riding for years, there is bound to be something for everyone at a RoadSafe HB Motorcyclist Open Day to be staged at the Royshill Go-Kart track on Sunday the 21st November starting at 9.30 am.,” said Steve Bennett, President of the Pacific Motorcycle Club.

A group of passionate motorcyclists from the HB Ulysses, Honda Riders of NZ and the Pacific Motorcycle Clubs have banded together with the NZ Police, ACC, RoadSafe HB, and a local motorcycle retailer to bring a range of safety awareness initiatives to the riders of Hawke’s Bay.

“This is hoped to be the first of many Motorcyclist Open Days to be staged at the Royshill Raceway,” said Graeme Walker from HB Ulysses. “This free event is all about helping motorcyclists improve their riding skills and stay safe on HB roads.” he said.

“NZTA records show there are over 2,000 motorcycles registered in the area from Wairoa to Central Hawke’s Bay and there are approximately two fatal, 19 serious and over 30 minor motorcycle accidents in our area every year. While many of these accidents are not the fault of the motorcycle rider alone, we hope to teach a few basic skills that will help keep riders safe on our roads,” he said.

The Open Day is particularly aimed at the riders in 45 to 60 year age group, as they have some of the worst accident rates. Many of these are the Born Again Bikers who learnt to ride 20 or 30 years ago and have recently got back into motorcycling. All rider age groups are guaranteed to learn something as the sessions will cover such skills as emergency braking and low speed manoeuvring while members of the Pacific MC Racing Club will be running some fun ‘on-track’ sessions to demonstrate various cornering techniques, throttle control and factors that influence traction and stability.

There will also be very experienced road riders available to answer questions and provide individual rider assessments and advice.

And just in case your precious bike needs a bit of work before your next WoF, a group of skilled motorcycle mechanics led by the lads at Ericksen Honda will be available all day to give your bike the ‘once over’ and recommend anything that needs a bit of attention before you hit the road this summer.

If that’s not enough to keep you occupied there will be a FREE sausage sizzle, hot coffee and lots of valuable Spot Prizes to give away.

“There are always those who tell you they’ve been riding for years and don’t need to learn anything new, so we’d particularly like to see them as they can pass on a few of their survival tips to the rest of us,” said Graeme.

For more information on the Open Day, feel free to contact:
Linda Anderson: RoadSafe HB on 027 474 7294

[red mermaid]

Ok, so you say you're not but it very clearly uses the words "NZ Police" in the 2nd paragraph as one of the groups involved in this day.



Roadside chats = bullshit. If cops were really interested in motorcycle safety, they'd be pushing for this sort of thing. I'll be there doing my bit, using my experience to help other riders, so don't tell me I'm a narrow-minded, keyboard hero.

[MSTRS]

They were invited to attend, as far as I know. It did not start with them.
A day like this is way better than some cuntstable wagging his finger on the side of the road

[bogan]

Ok, so you say you're not but it very clearly uses the words "NZ Police" in the 2nd paragraph as one of the groups involved in this day.

heres a thought, in the interests of safety, why don't you get a hold of one of the flyers and post it up here, so we can see whether the safety message is good, or bollocks. I mean roadside checkpoints have what, couple of hundred bikes go through them with heaps of police man hours, kb, thousands of bikers and only a single click.

[mashman]

Ok, so you say you're not but it very clearly uses the words "NZ Police" in the 2nd paragraph as one of the groups involved in this day.


Why, with 78% of the ACTUAL injuries under their belts, are you not stopping and leafletting cars?


heres a thought, in the interests of safety, why don't you get a hold of one of the flyers and post it up here, so we can see whether the safety message is good, or bollocks. I mean roadside checkpoints have what, couple of hundred bikes go through them with heaps of police man hours, kb, thousands of bikers and only a single click.

That sounds too sensible. Stop it right now.

[ducatilover]

Why, with 78% of the ACTUAL injuries under their belts, are you not stopping and leafletting cars?





Your turn to stop, that's too sensible. Target the MINORITY not the problem you foooooool

[mashman]

Your turn to stop, that's too sensible. Target the MINORITY not the problem you foooooool

sorry :facepalm: what was i thinking... Can i still have cake?

[scumdog]

I don't appreciate a cop with no experience of bikes telling me what to do, when I clock up 1000km+ in a single ride, have ridden all night on plenty of occasions, handled freezing temperatures and my gear costs thousands of dollars (and some specially imported as its not widely available here).

Now of course, not everyone is the same... but blanket pulling everyone and treating everyone the same is hardly going to impress me.

(a) Are you expecting the cop that stops you to have his motrocycling C.V with him?

(b) Are you thinking you'll be getting pulled over just to be impressed?

(c) Are you trolling?:blink:

[ducatilover]

sorry :facepalm: what was i thinking... Can i still have cake?

Yes, of course.

[Hawk]

as stated in another thread

how many bikes does it take to block a state high way at a police road block

doing anything this weekend :yeah:

[scumdog]

I see this as something similar, if I am not doing anything wrong, why should I be stopped going about my lawful business to have a revenue gathering excercise thinly disguised as a "safety talk"?, my bike is fully legal, I am fully licenced and I dont as a rule exceed the speed limit. I dont drink and drive either.

Ya gonna be wearing a big-arsed sandwich-board sign outlining the above so the cops don't have toactually stop you to find out all that??:blink::shutup:

[bogan]

Ya gonna be wearing a big-arsed sandwich-board sign outlining the above so the cops don't have toactually stop you to find out all that??:blink::shutup:

could just paint the bike in police colors, I hear those guys aren't checked up on too regularly :shutup:

[MSTRS]

Hey SD, it's real simple. In fact I'll speak slowly, so some of your 'colleagues' can keep up...
Roadside legality checks are disliked, but understandable. Anything more is decidedly unwelcome, unappreciated, possibly counterproductive in terms of what it is supposed to achieve, and there are far better ways of going about bettering motorcycle safety.

[mashman]

Ya gonna be wearing a big-arsed sandwich-board sign outlining the above so the cops don't have toactually stop you to find out all that??:blink::shutup:

Nice idea... Could you send out some stickers, alerting your colleagues that the motorcyclist wearing the sticker doesn't want to be stopped for THE chat, a penalty yes, a chat, no?

A big arsed sandwich board on a motorcycle, tsk tsk, won't it affect my riding position :shifty:

[scumdog]

Hey SD, it's real simple. In fact I'll speak slowly, so some of your 'colleagues' can keep up...
Roadside legality checks are disliked, but understandable. Anything more is decidedly unwelcome, unappreciated, possibly counterproductive in terms of what it is supposed to achieve, and there are far better ways of going about bettering motorcycle safety.

Funny, down here I've yet to have a single biker say that to me - whether pulled over at the side of the road or over a beer at some event.

I guess some bikers somewhere have an ingrained loathing/fear of their valuable time being wasted by somebody pulling them over with the intention of offering ( unwanted) advice.

Sheesh, it wouldn't/doesn't worry me when pulled over...and no, they don't know who I am.

[MSTRS]

...and no, they don't know who I am.

Of course they do. Haven't you been reading that other tread...

[ducatilover]

Funny, down here I've yet to have a single biker say that to me - whether pulled over at the side of the road or over a beer at some event.

I guess some bikers somewhere have an ingrained loathing/fear of their valuable time being wasted by somebody pulling them over with the intention of offering ( unwanted) advice.

Sheesh, it wouldn't/doesn't worry me when pulled over...and no, they don't know who I am.


Yes, but Mr Scummy, this advice will be straight from the ACC "how to fuck with bikers" hand book won't it? With poorly modified statistical bullshit and no cake. I want cake, will they supply coffee or cake?

[Scuba_Steve]

well complaining aint gonna achieve much maybee we should just take the ideas of the police & run with them.
We could start flagging down cop cars & having a friendly chat with them while handing them a "police vehicle is NOT a toy!" flyer, might as well check their vehicle for WOF, reg & make sure it's safe while your at it. After all safety 1st right?

[MSTRS]

As for bikers being 'friendly' and 'appreciative' at such a roadside stop, isn't it just possible that they are relieved at not being pinged for something? After all, when Mr Policemen stops you, it must mean he got you for something wrong...that old guilty conscience thing?

[scumdog]

As for bikers being 'friendly' and 'appreciative' at such a roadside stop, isn't it just possible that they are relieved at not being pinged for something? After all, when Mr Policemen stops you, it must mean he got you for something wrong...that old guilty conscience thing?

Relieved? Possibly.

But isn't also possible they are not paranoid worry-warts, that they are average normal (WTF is normal:blink:) bikers?

BTW: Some DID get a ticket, still were pleasant and chatty to deal with :yes:

Oh, and now I'm getting bored.....

[riffer]

Relieved? Possibly.

But isn't also possible they are not paranoid worry-warts, that they are average normal (WTF is normal:blink:) bikers?

BTW: Some DID get a ticket, still were pleasant and chatty to deal with :yes:

Oh, and now I'm getting bored.....

Can't say I blame you Tom. There is a definite smell of bovine excrement about this thread.

As for the poster who mentioned this was being paid for out of the MSL - you have just declared your complete ignorance of the situation.

There's no real point discussing anything with those who are so far up their own arse that they won't listen to what's being said, but for those who haven't heard it yet.

NONE OF THE MSL LEVY HAS BEEN SPENT. ANYTHING THAT IS PAID FOR BY THE MSL LEVY WILL BE DONE TRANSPARENTLY THROUGH THE GOVERNMENT TENDERING SYSTEM (GETS).

[riffer]

Hey SD, it's real simple. In fact I'll speak slowly, so some of your 'colleagues' can keep up...
Roadside legality checks are disliked, but understandable. Anything more is decidedly unwelcome, unappreciated, possibly counterproductive in terms of what it is supposed to achieve, and there are far better ways of going about bettering motorcycle safety.

John - stay tuned. There are some great initiatives BRONZ are working on (in collaboration with "the enemy") which I believe may be very well received by motorcyclists. The tide is turning and I think ACC is about to start putting their hands in their pockets to pony up with the cash for a lot of what we have been asking for.

[MSTRS]

John - stay tuned. There are some great initiatives BRONZ are working on (in collaboration with "the enemy") which I believe may be very well received by motorcyclists. The tide is turning and I think ACC is about to start putting their hands in their pockets to pony up with the cash for a lot of what we have been asking for.

About to? Who do you think is paying for the HB initiative? And if BRONZ want to drive more, then IT'S ABOUT TIME.
The cynic in me finds the timing just a little too convenient...

[riffer]

About to? Who do you think is paying for the HB initiative? And if BRONZ want to drive more, then IT'S ABOUT TIME.
The cynic in me finds the timing just a little too convenient...

Ah bollocks mate. You know as well as I do that the wheels of govt turn slowly when it's not something that benefits the pollies directly. It takes bloody ages to get stuff done.

We gave them a hell of a fright last year with the bikoi. Do you really think it's a convenient coincidence that they want to announce some stuff around the anniversary of the bikoi?

It's ALL ABOUT the timing.

[MSTRS]

Ah, not that timing...another story. For another thread.

[Ocean1]

The law gives them the power to stop you for any reason

The law gives them the power to stop you for NO reason.

Proceede.

[Rych]

perhaps we can produce a leaflet of our own to give to the police "how to U-turn safely". Then we can reciprocate the kind gesture...
leaflet for all constables because of one outa 10,000?

I think this is good, nice to know our safety is of concern, my bike/gear is fine nothing to worry about.. :yes:

[bogan]

leaflet for all constables because of one outa 10,000?


thats the thing though isn't it, they would greatly object to being lumped in with a badly performing minority, while doing the exact same thing to every biker stopped :facepalm:

[Gremlin]

(a) Are you expecting the cop that stops you to have his motrocycling C.V with him?

(b) Are you thinking you'll be getting pulled over just to be impressed?

(c) Are you trolling?:blink:
a) No, I just expect the cops to use their qualified people to talk about the matter... I would make this comment in respect to ANY industry. In the same vein, when I completed my licenses, I had testers suggest "improvements" that would have put me in more danger... :blink:

b) ... dunno, I'm pretty hard to be impressed. However, I don't have an idol, so there is a space right here for one > <

c) only when there are bridges...

no option d? I have a sweet tooth, I really like the idea of cake. I've ridden long distances for a worse excuse... someone tell me where they are so I can have cake.

[Brian d marge]

I just buggered off , ( the grass is greener after all )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4SJ0xR2_bQ

but I ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-niro6p2x4o

Stephen

[sugilite]

Perhaps I might be able to lecture them. :eek:

If your really, really lucky, they will put you on their ignore list :sunny:

[cheshirecat]

We gave them a hell of a fright last year with the bikoi.



Did we? (and this for more characters as required for the forum rules)

[riffer]

Did we? (and this for more characters as required for the forum rules)
Yes.













....(10fc)

[Conquiztador]

Fuck em. There is heaps of cool backroads that are as fast as the main ones they will sit on.

I am not sure who comes up with this shit, but scare tactics are not the way. We know that it does not work on people. The only thing it shows is that the decision makers have a single track mind: "People still crashing so lets add more policing on the roads, cut down rights and beat them in to line."

[Conquiztador]

Yes.
....(10fc)

Yep. It solved all the problems and we are now so much better off.

[riffer]

Fuck em. There is heaps of cool backroads that are as fast as the main ones they will sit on.

I am not sure who comes up with this shit, but scare tactics are not the way. We know that it does not work on people. The only thing it shows is that the decision makers have a single track mind: "People still crashing so lets add more policing on the roads, cut down rights and beat them in to line."

Riding cool backroads is a great idea. Less cars that way, and you can get a huge amount of jollies without necessarily even breaking their speed limit.

As for it being scare tactics I think you miss the point. It's not to scare, it's what the POlice like to call "Interaction with the public." And yeah, for the majority of people its an absolute waste of time.

But there's also a good chance that they might pick up something that's amiss on a bike, or someone who's not fit to ride, or one of a myriad other issues. And they might just save a life. That life could be yours. Not because you'd crash mind, because you're one of the ones that never does anything wrong. But you know, another, lesser, biker could ride into you and really fuck up your day.

Also, lots of bikes being stopped on the road means lots of bikes being SEEN by motorists. It raises the profile in an unconscious way.

I suggest you just chill out and enjoy your ride. Take a back road you've not been on for a while. Chances are you won't even see a cop on the road anyway. They tend to hunt where the picking's easy.

[Gremlin]

Fuck em. There is heaps of cool backroads that are as fast as the main ones they will sit on.
Poppycock.

They need to sit on this road and watch the flood of bikes come through their checkpoint: http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Waitewhena+Road&sll=-38.641277,174.982338&sspn=0.065029,0.154324&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Waitewhena+Rd&z=11

By flood, I mean, what, 5 in a day would be pretty busy yeah?

[red mermaid]

What a good idea!

I haven't been to Ohura for a few years now and theres plenty of petrol in the work vehicle.



Poppycock.

They need to sit on this road and watch the flood of bikes come through their checkpoint: http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Waitewhena+Road&sll=-38.641277,174.982338&sspn=0.065029,0.154324&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Waitewhena+Rd&z=11

By flood, I mean, what, 5 in a day would be pretty busy yeah?

[bogan]

Also, lots of bikes being stopped on the road means lots of bikes being SEEN by motorists. It raises the profile in an unconscious way.


But in what context does it raise the profile? Being pulled over by cops given a safety lesson send the message that it's us that are lawless and irresponsible road users. Not exactly giving them a reason to look twice at intersections is it?

[nadroj]

Exactly, and if some hadn't jumped on there high horses they would read in the press realease that some members of the Central District Highway Patrol are not only motorcyclists but very experienced ones at that.

Yep.... Gold wing arm chair cruisers.

[nadroj]

They were invited to attend, as far as I know. It did not start with them.
A day like this is way better than some cuntstable wagging his finger on the side of the road

I'd rather him wag his finger than pull his pen on me!

[MSTRS]

I'd rather him wag his finger than pull his pen on me!

Is that an analogy? Did you own a Honda at one time?

[ynot slow]

Rego-done yesterday.

Wof-done this morning.......Is a brake check mandatory for wof?can't recall tester doing one,I never applied the brakes for him,unless he thought stopping where he indicated meant both were ok,and he didn't do it as bike was on centre stand from time he said park there,till it was(check over)done.

[MSTRS]

My WOF done this morning. Tester spun each wheel and applied the brake to see if it stopped. Not under any load at all. Plus he used his magic light to check the pad thickness. He was happy.
Thing is - even if I don't use them much, I know my brakes work, and I know the pads are fine. But it's not up to me, is it? I want that bit of sticker, so even if it's bullshit, what the tester does/says is important...

[ynot slow]

My WOF done this morning. Tester spun each wheel and applied the brake to see if it stopped. Not under any load at all. Plus he used his magic light to check the pad thickness. He was happy.
Thing is - even if I don't use them much, I know my brakes work, and I know the pads are fine. But it's not up to me, is it? I want that bit of sticker, so even if it's bullshit, what the tester does/says is important...

The guy doing wof was an ex bike mechanic,so did an excellent check,i.e had me weight rear to give front bearings,etc check for play,had a look at pads,but never checked thickness of discs(in fact no tester has at vtnz for any of my bikes),I know the fact the bike is 3yr old should mean all ok,and is(last checkup in shop was fine).

And the guy before me was declined due to tyres,tread looked fine,but had a screw/nail in tyre,hadn't gone flat but owner said he was adding air each week,and hadn't checked tyre for leak etc.

[wickle]

the two different places that have done my warrants have both taken bike for short ride and I watched them test brakes.

[miloking]

the two different places that have done my warrants have both taken bike for short ride and I watched them test brakes.

Over my fucking dead body.....

I know my brakes work and dont need some "wanna be cyclists" taking my bike for spin to prove it to me...

[Nonbeliever]

the two different places that have done my warrants have both taken bike for short ride and I watched them test brakes.

what happens if he drops it?

[MSTRS]

what happens if he drops it?

Heard of Public Liability Insurance?

[Bonez]

Hmmm " It is mandatory to always have a headlight on if riding on a motorcycle on the road."

Shouldn't that be- It is mandatory for all motorcycles 1980 and later to always have a headlight on if riding on a on the road.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303647.html?search=qs_regulation_motorcycle_nor esel&p=1#DLM303647

r m and co could you inform your superiors of this wee error thanks.

[ynot slow]

Typical legislative made by car drivers-quote"the driver of moped or motorcycle etc..."

Can we be referred to riders.

[Bonez]

Trivial really. Personnally I don't really give a rats fat as long as those doing the "education campain" get their criterea correct. Quite a number of us here have older road legal bikes.

[Crazy Steve]

I think I rode past one of these check points today.

As I'm currently disqualified and have no Rego or Wof and bald tyres I kept riding past...

The Police man was waving his Flyer at me and I waved back, I also saw in my mirrors one HP unit came a chasing. But it didn't take to long and I had lost him.

Don't know what your all complaining about.

Crazy Steve.

[Bonez]

Anyone got access to the leaflet in pdf format? It'd interesting to see what's in it.

[scumdog]

I think I rode past one of these check points today.

As I'm currently disqualified and have no Rego or Wof and bald tyres I kept riding past...

The Police man was waving his Flyer at me and I waved back, I also saw in my mirrors one HP unit came a chasing. But it didn't take to long and I had lost him.

Don't know what your all complaining about.

Crazy Steve.

P.D.:yes::blink:

[Conquiztador]

P.D.:yes::blink:

Totally agree! They have not started them yet!

[Crazy Steve]

P.D.:yes::blink:

Maybe it was something else he was waving..But it was a check point and they were the Nz Police and I didn't stop...:yes:

Crazy Steve.

[AD345]

The cops do this because they can

They can do this because it's the law

It's the law because parliament passed it

Parliament passed it because the Govt. of the day thought there were votes in it.

Thats the leverage point right there.


Now - to use that leverage we have 2 options

1. The Katrman premise: Improve motorcycling standards and behaviour so that less (MUCH less) havoc is reported to the great unwashed as being caused by motorcyclists thereby gaining wide public support for an easing of enforcement activity and a reduction in targeting.

2. The 'fuck-em all" approach: Cause widespread civil disturbance and massive (REALLY big) public inconvenience thereby getting the great unwashed to clamour very very loudly that 'something be done" to pacify us and allow them to get on with their lives.

Option 2 is used widely across the globe. It can be a bit dodgy with authoritarian type governments but has proven to be very successful in Western democracies with wideapread media coverage.

Option 1 has never been used with success

...anywhere

...ever.


.

[miloking]

...


2. The 'fuck-em all" approach: Cause widespread civil disturbance and massive (REALLY big) public inconvenience thereby getting the great unwashed to clamour very very loudly that 'something be done" to pacify us and allow them to get on with their lives.

...



Well, dont have to worry about me...already been doing my "fuck'em all" approach for while now.

All we need now is everybody to start doing runners from their "safety leaflet check points"....i think they would get the idea soon enough.

(obviously those who are already safe by riding registered bike and not having licence suspended etc. are welcome to stop for their lolipop & safety pamphlet)

Viva la resistance...

[Littleman]

Well, dont have to worry about me...already been doing my "fuck'em all" approach for while now.

All we need now is everybody to start doing runners from their "safety leaflet check points"....i think they would get the idea soon enough.

(obviously those who are already safe by riding registered bike and not having licence suspended etc. are welcome to stop for their lolipop & safety pamphlet)

Viva la resistance...


Sure you have mate.

I've called your bluff on here before.

If you can't man up with a keyboard, can't imagine you being a tough guy without one.

[miloking]

Sure you have mate.

I've called your bluff on here before.

If you can't man up with a keyboard, can't imagine you being a tough guy without one.

Are you saying i dont have a bike rego on hold?
Are you saying i've never done runner from cops before? (successfuly or not)
Are you saying that my licence isnt currently suspended for another 2 months?
(and therefore that i will happily pull over and have my bike impounded ?)

What exactly is your point, with this "called your bluff"?

[Katman]

Over my fucking dead body.....


It could be arranged.

My policy has always been, no road test - no WOF.

[sugilite]

Yeah, I'm with Katman on this one, my bikes have been road tested at wof time for over 25 years. I can remember a certain WMC mechanic getting a bollicking for thrashing my RG250 up their drive and off into the distance :lol:

[Pixie]

thats the thing though isn't it, they would greatly object to being lumped in with a badly performing minority, while doing the exact same thing to every biker stopped :facepalm:

Perhaps "a certain organisation" could get some leaflets printed to hand to the cunstables describing how to complete a change of direction on a public road without killing somebody.:devil2:

[bogan]

Perhaps "a certain organisation" could get some leaflets printed to hand to the cunstables describing how to complete a change of direction on a public road without killing somebody.:devil2:

Depends on how overbearing the checkpoints are I reckon...

[BoristheBiter]

Can't belive i am going to say this but i agree with miloking:facepalm:

No one will be getting on my bike. they don't take a car for a test ride so they don't need to ride my bike.


And scumdog if crazy steve didn't talk PD he would have nothing to say.

[nodrog]

........ they don't take a car for a test ride .......

For a WOF? Of course they do, how else do you think they do the brake test?

Fanny.

[Katman]

Option 1 has never been used with success

...anywhere

...ever.


.

You've just made me all the more determined. :eek:

[Katman]

Now - to use that leverage we have 2 options

1. The Katrman premise: Improve motorcycling standards and behaviour so that less (MUCH less) havoc is reported to the great unwashed as being caused by motorcyclists thereby gaining wide public support for an easing of enforcement activity and a reduction in targeting.


And add to that.......

By improving motorcycling standards and behaviour we would encourage more and more people to see motorcycling as a viable and rewarding transport option thereby swelling our ranks to the point where we would have the numbers to force the overturning of the laws that introduced the enforcement activity and targeting.

Imagine the changes we could get implemented if instead of being 2% of the voting population we became 10%.

[BoristheBiter]

For a WOF? Of course they do, how else do you think they do the brake test?

Fanny.

The rollers on the ground that your car is driven onto.

[nodrog]

The rollers on the ground that your car is driven onto.

Yes at VTNZ that is the road test, outside of your bubble at a WOF approved workshop the road test is done, wait for it, on the road.

Fanny.

[BoristheBiter]

Yes at VTNZ that is the road test, outside of your bubble at a WOF approved workshop the road test is done, wait for it, on the road.

Fanny.

Sorry keep forgetting you live in the sticks

[nodrog]

Chin up (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_miIj52Df0WE/TJF57SLRwRI/AAAAAAAACq0/zEtl3bhv-V8/s1600/bubble+boy.jpg), one day you might get out.

Fanny.

[miloking]

Yes at VTNZ that is the road test, outside of your bubble at a WOF approved workshop the road test is done, wait for it, on the road.

Fanny.

OFFTOPIC!

Why are we even discussing WOFs???

And NO you are wrong VTNZ anywhere in auckland doesnt do road test! Not sure what they do in your town...

[Katman]

Comprehension's still not your strong point, is it?

[nodrog]

OFFTOPIC!

Why are we even discussing WOFs???

And NO you are wrong VTNZ anywhere in auckland doesnt do road test! Not sure what they do in your town...

Cant you read you fucken Bellend?

Fanny.

[MSTRS]

And NO you are wrong VTNZ anywhere in auckland doesnt do road test! Not sure what they do in your town...

DoH!
That's exactly what was being said. VTNZ uses the rollers to test the brakes, in lieu of a road test. Other Wof issuers have to do a road test, because they don't have rollers.

[riffer]

DoH!
That's exactly what was being said. VTNZ uses the rollers to test the brakes, in lieu of a road test. Other Wof issuers have to do a road test, because they don't have rollers.


Not my local VTNZ. I have to do a brake test for them. On the back road behind the testing station. Gary @ UH VTNZ says the roller isn't safe for motorcycles.

[Scuba_Steve]

Not my local VTNZ. I have to do a brake test for them. On the back road behind the testing station. Gary @ UH VTNZ says the roller isn't safe for motorcycles.

yea mines never been on the rollers either

[MSTRS]

For cars...
Our VTNZ does not road test bikes OR put them on the rollers. Good thing I know my brakes work...

[miloking]

Ohh now i get it....appologies fanny, i didnt read it properly...

(and katman you are right...THIS one time)

[nodrog]

I know "what was being said" just Fanny kept insisting that WOF places in some shithole town do road test so thats the way it must be everywhere else....but lots of them have rollers too

And bikes dont go on rollers, you do the brake test for them...

Who is the company that manufactures Milo? I'm sueing them, as its clear from this thread that it is detrimental to childrens brains.

Fanny.

[nadroj]

Who is the company that manufactures Milo? I'm sueing them, as its clear from this thread that it is detrimental to childrens brains.

Fanny.

Cadbury..... or is it now Hersheys?

[Spyke]

:facepalm: Can't they realise the way they go around trying to help road safety grates many people just like the cheese cutters.

I don't want to be stopped when i'm on the bike, it makes me feel the cops are there loitering on the road waiting for an innocent citizen to do nothing wrong just to criminalise them. They had better make sure i'm not doing 101kmph I may die. Now i get to have the junk mail before I get to the letterbox


now this is junk mail i want in my letter box!

why not get the rights to use extracts out of a successful motorcycling handbook that will give riders ideas of proper riding techniques.

Instead of cops putting pressure on the road why not make a little pack they send to every registered bikes house that comes with a twist of the wrist book, a dvd on the same stuff, a small book of bike crash stories/pictures, discount vouchers for proper gear, discount on rego and a bit of brownie for some points.

then i would listen, they may even get through to some people that don't take to being forced on the side of the road to look like a pillock as cars drive past staring.

lets start working for the people not the paycheck, safer communities together :love:

[bogan]

For cars...
Our VTNZ does not road test bikes OR put them on the rollers. Good thing I know my brakes work...

well if your brakes didn't work there would be a MSTRS sized hole in their wall, actually applying that logic to the whole thing, just turning up means your vehicle is road-worthy. Drive through wof's for all!

wathced em put my ginny on a the roller test once, fuck that was sketchy :facepalm:

[MSTRS]

well if your brakes didn't work there would be a MSTRS sized hole in their wall, actually applying that logic to the whole thing, just turning up means your vehicle is road-worthy. Drive through wof's for all!


Not, actually. Lift each wheel off the deck, check bearings, spin the wheel and apply brake. No load at all, but they're happy.
They've actually said to me "Bike wof's aren't worth the paper they're written on. We can't check thinks like frame cracks under the tank, and so on. You guys ride these things, and we guess you wouldn't if they weren't ok"

[bogan]

Not, actually. Lift each wheel off the deck, check bearings, spin the wheel and apply brake. No load at all, but they're happy.
They've actually said to me "Bike wof's aren't worth the paper they're written on. We can't check thinks like frame cracks under the tank, and so on. You guys ride these things, and we guess you wouldn't if they weren't ok"

yeh true, they do the same in palmy, actually reminds me, I got no center stand anymore, wonder how they'll lift the wheels to check (I use tie downs to the frame sliders and a roof). Would not be too happy if they chucked a jack onto the crank case...

[BoristheBiter]

Not, actually. Lift each wheel off the deck, check bearings, spin the wheel and apply brake. No load at all, but they're happy.
They've actually said to me "Bike wof's aren't worth the paper they're written on. We can't check thinks like frame cracks under the tank, and so on. You guys ride these things, and we guess you wouldn't if they weren't ok"

so no need for a road test then.

[MSTRS]

yeh true, they do the same in palmy, actually reminds me, I got no center stand anymore, wonder how they'll lift the wheels to check (I use tie downs to the frame sliders and a roof). Would not be too happy if they chucked a jack onto the crank case...

Side stand. You haul the bike over so front wheel is off the deck, then same for rear wheel. Do not let them use a jack.
Dunno how it works for Harleys. Mind you - their brakes aren't up to much anyway. Apparently. :innocent:

[cowboyz]

Nice troll!

Number of 'unsafe U-turns killing somebody' by Police: 1

Number of 'riding like a fuckwit and killing self/others by bikers': gazzilion.

:

awesome.. only counting a fifth of errors by police and exaggrating those of bikers. Well done you brainwashed fucking sheep.


umm... "police car doing a U-turn to chase a speeding driver is the fifth such accident involving a police vehicle since 2007." as at 20/04/2010


Splitting hairs but I was refering to motorbikes.
of course its 'splitting hairs' if it doesnt agree to your stats.. - which happen to be completely wrong. Sure you dont want a job in parliment?



But there's also a good chance that they might pick up something that's amiss on a bike, or someone who's not fit to ride, or one of a myriad other issues. And they might just save a life. That life could be yours. Not because you'd crash mind, because you're one of the ones that never does anything wrong. But you know, another, lesser, biker could ride into you and really fuck up your day.

so you advocating .. instead of training lets just do enforcement. Of course.. The ledger looks better that way

My WOF done this morning. Tester spun each wheel and applied the brake to see if it stopped. Not under any load at all. Plus he used his magic light to check the pad thickness. He was happy.
Thing is - even if I don't use them much, I know my brakes work, and I know the pads are fine. But it's not up to me, is it? I want that bit of sticker, so even if it's bullshit, what the tester does/says is important...
WOF are a waste of time. Police decide on the side of the road if your bike is roadworthy or not anyhow. Im not sure how they think they can pick up things that VTNZ miss..... i mean.. with no workshop.. just on the side of the road in all.

The cops do this because they can

They can do this because it's the law

It's the law because parliament passed it

Parliament passed it because the Govt. of the day thought there were votes in it.

Thats the leverage point right there.


Now - to use that leverage we have 2 options

1. The Katrman premise: Improve motorcycling standards and behaviour so that less (MUCH less) havoc is reported to the great unwashed as being caused by motorcyclists thereby gaining wide public support for an easing of enforcement activity and a reduction in targeting.

2. The 'fuck-em all" approach: Cause widespread civil disturbance and massive (REALLY big) public inconvenience thereby getting the great unwashed to clamour very very loudly that 'something be done" to pacify us and allow them to get on with their lives.

Option 2 is used widely across the globe. It can be a bit dodgy with authoritarian type governments but has proven to be very successful in Western democracies with wideapread media coverage.

Option 1 has never been used with success

...anywhere

...ever.


.
best of luck getting ANY group of more than 10 people in NZ to band together. I rode with thousands of bikes to wellington last year and listened to speeches how the rises in ACC were not fair and 'we' as bikers were not going to stand for it. 2 months later the fees went up (albiet not as much as orginially suggested but probably just as much as they planned to in the first place) and are bikers back there? I havent heard anything!

Not my local VTNZ. I have to do a brake test for them. On the back road behind the testing station. Gary @ UH VTNZ says the roller isn't safe for motorcycles.
Every WOF i do I take it on the rollers myself. No muppet is getting on my bike. Its all good saying that they will pay for it but will they really? (the correct answer is no they wont!) they will pay what they think its worth to them.. not to you! Same prinicple insurance companies use.

[riffer]

so you advocating .. instead of training lets just do enforcement. Of course.. The ledger looks better that way

No of course I'm not advocating enforcement over education. My point was merely that there was a possibility that something COULD be spotted during a check.

You're probably one of those types, like myself, who make a point of knowing the state of your vehicle and checking it every time you go out. But believe me, a lot of people don't do that.

Education is always going to be better than enforcement. But if it always worked we wouldn't need enforcement would we?

[Patrick]

11 Pages of chicken little... "the sky is falling..."

These pamphlets, and the advice in them, is coming from the likes of BRONZ and other like minded motorbike groups, for the motorbike riders...

Not from the Police....

But some people are just plain paranoid, I guess....:facepalm:

[BoristheBiter]

11 Pages of chicken little... "the sky is falling..."

These pamphlets, and the advice in them, is coming from the likes of BRONZ and other like minded motorbike groups, for the motorbike riders...

Not from the Police....

But some people are just plain paranoid, I guess....:facepalm:

Why should today be any different.

[bogan]

11 Pages of chicken little... "the sky is falling..."

These pamphlets, and the advice in them, is coming from the likes of BRONZ and other like minded motorbike groups, for the motorbike riders...

Not from the Police....

But some people are just plain paranoid, I guess....:facepalm:

Well I know one such group that if you had asked, its likely you wouldn't have been able to print the reply :shutup:

And who are the targeted rego checks coming from? I you lot really wanted to make it about safety, you wouldn't bother with rego checks.

[Number One]

Who is the company that manufactures Milo? I'm sueing them, as its clear from this thread that it is detrimental to childrens brains.

Fanny.

LOL I agree! I think I shall switch my boy he loves that shit.

Slow down, R E A D PROPERLY - think hard and THEN respond...or not.


Cadbury..... or is it now Hersheys?

Nestle

[ducatilover]

Didn't see a single Police officer today :yes: Was a beaut of a day, I imagined at least one or two.

[MSTRS]

Yeah. They do that to lull you into forgetting about them...

[rastuscat]

Yes. We sit in our offices plotting how long it will take to lull the riders into a false sense of security.............and eating donuts...........

[steve_t]

Mmmmm.... donuts :drool: :innocent:

[rastuscat]

It's commonly held that there are a certain number of donuts we have to eat each day.

It used to be called a quota, but we aren't allowed to call it that now.

[MSTRS]

It's commonly held that there are a certain number of donuts we have to eat each day.

It used to be called a quota, but we aren't allowed to call it that now.

Performance indicator?
That'd be your waistline, surely?

[rastuscat]

Outputs versus outcomes, now THERE is a debate.

The cops donut consumption is a number that is measurable, like, say, for example, the number of tickets he writes. This is known as an output, a number of widgets produced i.e. donuts eaten, tickets written.

The outcome is the product of the outputs e.g. expanding waistline, reducing road crash rate.

You want to control the waistline, control the number of donuts eaten.

Now, here is the crux of the debate. It's internationally researched and held that an increase in the tickets written leads to a decrease over time in the crash rate.

For the record, that should be the guts of the debate, not the individual work done on the outputs. Anyway, the current management belief (and I don't disagree) is that an increase in the number of effective, targetted tickets leads to changed driver behaviour, which leads to improved outcomes i.e. less crashes, less trauma, less death.

So, if I want to decrease the crash rate (outcome) I need to get my guys to increase their outputs. I can't just give my team keys, uniforms and tell them to go and reduce the road toll, I actually need to tell them exactly what to do to achieve that.

Seems logical. Only, I'm told I'm not allowed to tell them how many tickets to write (coz that's a quota). Go figure.

What I can do, however, is cajole the troops to work in certain areas, and on specific offences. Red lights, stop signs, seatbelts, cellphones, failing to keep left, THOSE are the things my team works on. I'd rather they wrote 1 red light ticket than 10 tickets for number plate lights that don't work.

Back to my donuts.


Sponsored by

https://www.dunkindonuts.com/

[rastuscat]

Just a thought.

Quota or not, if you wear your seatbelt, you won't get a seatbelt ticket.

If you actually stop at a stop sign, you won't get a stop sign ticket.

Notice the correlation?

No offence = no ticket.

Spooky.

[MSTRS]

... need to tell them exactly what to do to achieve that.

... Go figure.



Go figure, indeed.:shifty:

To paraphrase...
Objective - Square peg into round hole (peg too big)
Method - Hit peg with hammer
Result - still doesn't drive peg into hole
Solution - Use a bigger hammer
Result 2 - Peg still won't go in
Outcome - No-one happy

See, a smart person would figure out that there must be another way of achieving the desired outcome. Unfortunately, that smart person mustn't work for the police, who need to be told what to do (you said it yourself). So - the not-so-smart people who DO tell the police what to do have come up with a new way of trying to get that pesky peg to do what they want. Unfortunately, because the police brain isn't trained in lateral thinking, what has been come up with still uses that hammer.

See, the problem is that the peg and the hole are the wrong size/shape for each other. Forcing the issue is a hiding to nothing. You have to start with a peg that fits. So stop manufacturing the wrong pegs and the problem of fit is resolved.

[steve_t]

Now, here is the crux of the debate. It's internationally researched and held that an increase in the tickets written leads to a decrease over time in the crash rate.


Does the international research discuss police interaction with the public (contacts) without issuing tickets but giving warnings and its effect on the crash rate?

[rastuscat]

Whoa !!

Okay, advise what I can do to change the driving behaviours that cause and aggravate crashes.

Remember that I am only one rung up from the bottom of the bureaucratic ladder, so I'm a bit limited at what I can do.

Bring it on.

[rastuscat]

Does the international research discuss police interaction with the public (contacts) without issuing tickets but giving warnings and its effect on the crash rate?

Yes. Basically, warnings have far less lasting effect than tickets.

Again, I can't prevent crashes. I can only effect driver behaviour that leads to crashes. It's a subtle difference, but significant.

[rastuscat]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, deathly silence.

Is the question too hard?

[mashman]

It's internationally researched and held that an increase in the tickets written leads to a decrease over time in the crash rate.


Have the Police been writing tickets for a while? Can you explain why the following FACTS (http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Pages/crashstatisticsDec2009.aspx) don't really bare out the "international research"?

Deaths No of road deaths
2000 462
2001 455
2002 405
2003 461
2004 435
2005 405
2006 393
2007 421
2008 365
2009 384

How does that correlate to international research?

Or

Reported injuries

2000 10962
2001 12368
2002 13918
2003 14372
2004 13890
2005 14456
2006 15174
2007 16013
2008 15174
2009 14858

How does that correlate to international research?

The figures are up and down like a prossies knicks... There are more factors than the fuckwit behind the wheel...

[MSTRS]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, deathly silence.

Is the question too hard?

I never said I was one of those great minds...but even I can see that the enforcement method is flawed. And the utterances from the likes of Paula Rose are just laughable.

Perhaps it's time to recognise that deaths are always going to be a part of motoring, and just perhaps the level has reached it's natural equilibrium?

Of course, teaching people how to drive, as opposed to how to get a licence, would be a better way of approaching further reduction.

[Owl]

If you actually stop at a stop sign, you won't get a stop sign ticket.

Not entirely true, as I did!

Only ever infringement I didn't deserve and only one I wrote in about. It failed, I paid and got on with my life.:violin:

[rastuscat]

Not entirely true, as I did!

The enforcement conundrum.

Occasionally we video the work we are doing, mainly for quality control.

So we get to watch someone commit an offence, on video, then hear them deny it, honestly believing that they haven't done it.

It's a psychological defence mechanism.

Don't worry, we all suffer from it. It's what makes it so hard for us to admit our mistakes, even in the face of clear evidence to the contrary. Oyur mind tells us that our perceptions are true, even when they aren't.

Donuts donuts dounts

[rastuscat]

There are more factors than the fuckwit behind the wheel...

Yup, and that's the problem with the big picture. Everyone has their own view, which largely excludes the big picture.

I agree, and accept that our view is just that, our view.

Not that I speak for the dept, just for me.

[MSTRS]

Got the video of Owl's case?

Just because a cop said he saw something, doesn't mean he did.
As we all know, they're only human. And humans lie, sometimes even believing what they say is true.

[mashman]

Yup, and that's the problem with the big picture. Everyone has their own view, which largely exculdes the big picture.

I agree, and accept that our view is just that, our view.

Not that I speak for the dept, just for me.

Vewy Twue. But the bigger picture won't get sorted by looking abroad. What other countries, that took part in the research, have roads like ours, have the population size similar to ours, border no other countries such as ours, driving skills similar to ours etc... the idiots making the decisions are doing so without considering NZ life, driving skills etc... :facepalm:

Otherwise it's all have been sorted a while ago. Time for a change :)

[MSTRS]

Accepted wisdom says that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting to get a different result.

[rastuscat]

I repeat.

Okay, advise what I can do to change the driving behaviours that cause and aggravate crashes.

Remember that I am only one rung up from the bottom of the bureaucratic ladder, so I'm a bit limited at what I can do.

Bring it on.

[steve_t]

Occasionally we video the work we are doing, mainly for quality control.

(It's) so hard for us to admit our mistakes, even in the face of clear evidence to the contrary. Our mind tells us that our perceptions are true, even when they aren't.

Donuts donuts donuts


Got the video of Owl's case?

Just because a cop said he saw something, doesn't mean he did.
As we all know, they're only human. And humans lie, sometimes even believing what they say is true.

So if perception is everything, surely we need to move to a situation of video recording everything. If the offender's perception can be wrong, surely the police officer's could be as well

[MSTRS]

I repeat.

Okay, advise what I can do to change the driving behaviours that cause and aggravate crashes.

Remember that I am only one rung up from the bottom of the bureaucratic ladder, so I'm a bit limited at what I can do.

Bring it on.

You personally? Not much.

Everyone must play their part - it's a team effort, right?
Safer Communities Together, right?

Separating pigs and snakes might help...at least the great unwashed would know which one's to respect.
:innocent:

Oh - and stop trying to convince us that quotas don't exist. Or reduced tolerances mean less crashes. Etc. Few are fooled by the weasel words of the brass. If you want the public to buy into the messages, they have to be believeable.

[rastuscat]

If the offender's perception can be wrong, surely the police officer's could be as well

Interesting.

Most of us, certainly most folk I know, drive subconsciously. For example, get to a destination, and sometimes it's difficult to remember the number of pedestrians you drove past. Just an example, that.

Now, when a cop is sitting at a stop sign waiting for someone to drive through without stopping, he/she is sitting there focussing on specifically that. After all, it's why he/she is there. A driver who rolls through would have done so without having made a conscious decision to roll through, so is unlikely to register exactly what has happened.

Funny then, that when stopped, they suddenly have specific, focussed recall of having stopped.

I hope you see my point, that someone specifically looking for something is more likely to have recall of the fact than someone who is paying no particular attention.

Am I wrong?

[rastuscat]

Separating pigs and snakes might help...at least the great unwashed would know which one's to respect.
:innocent:

Why does a driver behaviour shift have to be driven by Police?

Why can't people just realise that it is actually them who could change the road toll today, this minute, by stopping doing the things that cause crashes. It wouldn't even cost anything.

It's the "it won't happen to me" syndrome. Basically, we all think that crashes are what happen to other people, so why should we change our own driving behaviour.

We each think we are awesome drivers, who don't need to change.

Donuts, yum.

[MSTRS]

You answered yourself in post 184...but you didn't go far enough.

Most of us, certainly most folk I know, drive subconsciously. For example, get to a destination, and sometimes it's difficult to remember the number of pedestrians you drove past. Just an example, that.

If that had read "Most of us, certainly most folk I know, drive subconsciously. For example, get to a destination, and sometimes it's difficult to remember which road/s you took to get there. Just an example, that." - that would have been closer to the truth.

My point is that people (drivers) don't think, don't pay attention. My posts are deliberately inflammatory in an effort to make people think. Who knows...maybe there's a great mind/idea just waiting for a catalyst to bring it to the fore.


Why does a driver behaviour shift have to be driven by Police?

Why not? It's "you lot" that are trying to do just that by using the blunt instrument of enforcement.
It is my contention that the method/s are part of the problem.

[miloking]

Why does a driver behaviour shift have to be driven by Police?

Why can't people just realise that it is actually them who could change the road toll today, this minute, by stopping doing the things that cause crashes. It wouldn't even cost anything.

It's the "it won't happen to me" syndrome. Basically, we all think that crashes are what happen to other people, so why should we change our own driving behaviour.

We each think we are awesome drivers, who don't need to change.

Donuts, yum.

Exactly! I dont need to change!....its YOU asking us to change. So if you (police) dont want to "drive" the change then dont!

BTW road toll doesnt bother me...realy it doesnt, and i doubt apart from politicians trying to make themselves look better and win votes that many normal human beings actualy care about road toll either....so why the drama?

Why arent you stoping teenage kids smoking? or fat people eating Macas? ...there are many more lives to save right there.

[Bald Eagle]

Exactly! I dont need to change!....its YOU asking us to change. So if you (police) dont want to "drive" the change then dont!

BTW road toll doesnt bother me...realy it doesnt, and i doubt apart from politicians trying to make themselves look better and win votes that many normal human beings actualy care about road toll either....so why the drama?

The road toll is a nice media freindly distraction for tptb. We annualy kill or dispose of more people from a whole range of other factors that never get this consistent level of media coverage ( suicides / drugs / etc etc ).

[mashman]

Why does a driver behaviour shift have to be driven by Police?


It doesn't and shouldn't be. You said yourself you have to do as you're directed, tis the job. That's someone's else lazy attempt at bringing sanity to the roads :yes:



Why can't people just realise that it is actually them who could change the road toll today, this minute, by stopping doing the things that cause crashes. It wouldn't even cost anything.

It's the "it won't happen to me" syndrome. Basically, we all think that crashes are what happen to other people, so why should we change our own driving behaviour.

We each think we are awesome drivers, who don't need to change.


Because they have nothing invested in the outcome, other than to stay alive... and as they are still alive, their driving must be fine... there's nothing wrong with that logic, as we all know, or most do, it only takes that 1 lapse of concentration and yer in the poo, the other 649,000 time you've made the exact same journey has turned out fine, same for drink drivers, drugged drivers, speeders, slowers etc... what could go wrong...

Those things are called accidents :rofl:. The "fuckwits" pushing where they shouldn't have other things to learn, the importance of tyres, suspension setup, brakes, road conditions etc... and that takes education. The hard bit is finding a single approach that fits all...

[steve_t]

I hope you see my point, that someone specifically looking for something is more likely to have recall of the fact than someone who is paying no particular attention.

Am I wrong?

Fair call. I'd still think getting video cameras everywhere would be a good idea esp now that 1080p cameras are so cheap. I'd certainly feel bummed out if I was arguing the point and was then shown video footage of the infraction. But yeah, the point about specifically looking for something vs autopilot and recall is fair enuf

[Owl]

It's what makes it so hard for us to admit our mistakes, even in the face of clear evidence to the contrary.

Joe public or the police?

While I've never lost my licence, I've had more than my share of infringement notices. Been let off a fair few too when I should've recieved one, so I'll say I'm up on the deal and not going to whine. I only dispute the one where the cop got it wrong:innocent:............not the other xxx where they got it right!:facepalm:


Got the video of Owl's case?

Just because a cop said he saw something, doesn't mean he did.
As we all know, they're only human. And humans lie, sometimes even believing what they say is true.

It was at a checkpoint and the officer that waved me in just got it wrong. Two cops, lot of cars, shit happens and the one issuing tickets never saw anything. At least the vehicle that stopped in front of me (I'm sure about that too) got to go on his way.:yes:

[bogan]

I repeat.

Okay, advise what I can do to change the driving behaviours that cause and aggravate crashes.

Remember that I am only one rung up from the bottom of the bureaucratic ladder, so I'm a bit limited at what I can do.

Bring it on.

I'd like to offer an alternate theory, the number of tickets wirtten out will lower the number of offenses that ticket was written for, to a point. Public perception of how effective this law is at preventing accidents will govern what this point is. So while studies may show that writing more tickets reduces accident rates, writing too many may have no effect on road safety, and writing them for bullshit laws like headlights on bikes, and bike regos, is unlikely to have any effect on road safety. And if more tickets on good laws reduce the offenses, it'll follow that the amount of tickets will reduce too.

So abandon the quotas bollocks, focus on effective laws which actually make the roads safer, and show discrimination in applying those law. ie passing on double yellows should be all good if you have vision and make it with 100m of clear road etc...

[Patrick]

Just a thought.

Quota or not, if you wear your seatbelt, you won't get a seatbelt ticket.

If you actually stop at a stop sign, you won't get a stop sign ticket.

Notice the correlation?

No offence = no ticket.

Spooky.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo.... You're lying.................. it can't be that simple..............:shutup::innocent::facepalm:

[Conquiztador]

Some interesting concepts and thinking here. I include two here:

My point is that people (drivers) don't think, don't pay attention. My posts are deliberately inflammatory in an effort to make people think. Who knows...maybe there's a great mind/idea just waiting for a catalyst to bring it to the fore.
.
I have meetings monthly all over the country. I could fly but find it boring and mind numbing. I could drive but I end up spinning things in my head. So I ride because I like riding, because it helps me stay alert and in shape (there is heaps of research that tells us that bike riders are in better shape physically and mentally). I like that. And I also ride as I like my mind to stay sharp. Riding a bike does that my mind has no time to wander, it is all the time focused on the riding, watching the traffic, trying to figure out what that cars next move will be, checking the road for potholes, dirt, diesel. Listening to the motor and noticing a slight change in the sound. Feeling the road through the tyres. And waving! I therefore come to the conclusion that bikers are more alert than cagers on the road!


I'd like to offer an alternate theory, the number of tickets wirtten out will lower the number of offenses that ticket was written for, to a point. Public perception of how effective this law is at preventing accidents will govern what this point is. So while studies may show that writing more tickets reduces accident rates, writing too many may have no effect on road safety, and writing them for bullshit laws like headlights on bikes, and bike regos, is unlikely to have any effect on road safety. And if more tickets on good laws reduce the offenses, it'll follow that the amount of tickets will reduce too.


I like this: Have a quota, write out tickets and that type of offence will reduce therefore making it harder to reach the quota. So then the outcome is that the tickets are written for bullshit reasons just to reach quota.

The "keep on writing tickets and they will learn" approach is not really working (and I don't care what anyone say). It is sort of back to front. Nowhere else in our society is punishment instead of rewards considered the way to get the desired outcome.

And I know you are all gonna laugh at me here now, but I was wondering what results we could get if instead of punishing the ones who break the law we would reward the ones who don't break the law?

Here: A guy is stopped by the police and the constable comes up to his window and says: "Sir, I was following you for 10 Km's and you always indicated at least 3 seconds before you turned, you never went over the speed limit, you slowed down to 40K when passing that school, and all the time you kept the distance to the car in front of you. That will get you a ticket: Here, your free ticket to the All Blacks v Englad in two weeks."

Sorry, I must be hallucinating....

[bogan]

Here: A guy is stopped by the police and the constable comes up to his window and says: "Sir, I was following you for 10 Km's and you always indicated at least 3 seconds before you turned, you never went over the speed limit, you slowed down to 40K when passing that school, and all the time you kept the distance to the car in front of you. That will get you a ticket: Here, your free ticket to the All Blacks v Englad in two weeks."

Sorry, I must be hallucinating....

that's already happening, but instead of an all blacks match you get a free safety flyer and lecture:shit: as well as a comprehensive safety... gah, fuck it, nobody in their right mind would believe that crap :shutup:

also with the quotas, if they set it for a specific type, like unsafe passing. Hand out a few deserved tickets in first week, people learn, then to fill their quota the second week they gotta write tickets that aren't so deserved, are the public gonna respect that law more the first week or the second? And are they gonna be more likely to pay attention to that law at the start of the second week or the third?

so there you go rastucat, your thoughts?

[swbarnett]

The enforcement conundrum.

Occasionally we video the work we are doing, mainly for quality control.

So we get to watch someone commit an offence, on video, then hear them deny it, honestly believing that they haven't done it.

It's a psychological defence mechanism.
Are you implying that the police NEVER get it wrong? Are they not human like the rest of us? Or has all the humanity been beaten out of them?

[MSTRS]

Are you implying that the police NEVER get it wrong? Are they not human like the rest of us? Or has all the humanity been beaten out of them?

You know how they all throw their hats in the air at passing out?
Well - those hats contain their frontal lobes. I understand there is an operation performed to re-install said lobes. But only after they leave or retire. The proof of this is in talking to a current cop and an ex-cop...the song sheet is quite different.

[mashman]

You know how they all throw their hats in the air at passing out?
Well - those hats contain their frontal lobes. I understand there is an operation performed to re-install said lobes. But only after they leave or retire. The proof of this is in talking to a current cop and an ex-cop...the song sheet is quite different.

The replacement hat

http://mausergirl.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/asshat.jpg

[rastuscat]

The problem with a quota (should one exist, tee hee) is that it encourages the person so tasked to do the minimum he/she has to to meet the quota. It is so easy to write tickets that it would encourage Popos to sit on a street corner and ticket every person who turned without indicating, or to troll parking buildings for vehicle registration tickets. Basically, it's easier to fill a quota with low value tickets than actual trauma promoting tickets. That's the problem.

The revenue gathering argument is a nonsense, as I've detailed here lots before. I don't get the cash, my boss doesn't, his boss doesn't, hell, even the Commissioner doesn't. The cash (if paid) goes to the consolidated fund.

On a high level, I expect there is someone in treasury rubbing their hands together when thinking fine revenue, but for the Popos, the money means nothing. Now, If they dropped my salary to a retainer and paid me 10% of the fine revenue, now THAT would be a quota, and wow, wouldn't I love writing tickets.

Believe it or not, tickets are written by the average cop in order to change driver behaviour. The motivations may be different further up the gubbermint chain, but at the roadside level, the revenue means nix.

Trouble is, the revenue collecting and quota diatribe is directed at the base level person who writes the tickets, who as mentioned has no interest in whether you pay the fine or not.

I can't even spend a single cent of the fine revenue on donuts. Nuts.:facepalm:

[miloking]

I can't even spend a single cent of the fine revenue on donuts. Nuts.:facepalm:

Not a SINGLE CENT??? What is the world coming to!!! :shit:

[MSTRS]

The revenue gathering argument is a nonsense...

On a high level, I expect there is someone in treasury rubbing their hands together when thinking fine revenue...


So which is it? Can't have a buck each way, young man.



Believe it or not, tickets are written by the average cop in order to change driver behaviour.

I firmly believe that (most of) those that go into traffic, do so because they'd like to make a difference. Commendable.
I'm also sure that most of you don't like writing tickets, and don't REALLY believe that is the best way to achieve driver behaviour improvements.
But your bosses hand you the song sheet they want sung from, eh?
Ex-cops are starting to speak out, so don't try to flannel us anymore...

[Scuba_Steve]

So which is it? Can't have a buck each way, young man.

I think what he meant to say is "The revenue gathering argument is all true" just not at the low level, its all from the Govt down. :yes:

[Patrick]

Here: A guy is stopped by the police and the constable comes up to his window and says: "Sir, I was following you for 10 Km's and you always indicated at least 3 seconds before you turned, you never went over the speed limit, you slowed down to 40K when passing that school, and all the time you kept the distance to the car in front of you. That will get you a ticket: Here, your free ticket to the All Blacks v Englad in two weeks."....

Then the prick will be on to KB in a flash, whinging about how he was "harrassed" by the pigs for "doin nuthin wrong..."???

[MSTRS]

Then the prick will be on to KB in a flash, whinging about how he was "harrassed" by the pigs for "doin nuthin wrong..."???

Of course. Bloody cheapskates fobbing him off with a pair of tickets to the poxy rugby. Could have been all expenses for 2 to a WSbk round...

[Gremlin]

I can't even spend a single cent of the fine revenue on donuts. Nuts.:facepalm:
Thats why you hand your license over with the queen wrapped around it... (or a dunkin voucher) :shutup:

[scumdog]

Ex-cops are starting to speak out, so don't try to flannel us anymore...

Disgruntled too, just about every one of them...

So do any of them carry a grudge/have a chip on their shoulder ? - heavens no!:shit:

(Stop trolling - somebody might think you mean what you say...)

[scumdog]

I think what he meant to say is "The revenue gathering argument is all true" just not at the low level, its all from the Govt down. :yes:


So if a cop managed to achieve his 'quota' by writing out 100% of his tickets as compliance ones would he be in trouble?
No.

So where would the revenue be gathered in that case?

(Just a note in case people thought 'revenue gathering' was the principal aim for ticket-writers)

[ynot slow]

Haven't read all threads here,but the take is the retired officer was from the old MOT,and the stupid woman argued there was no POLICE quota,so reading between the lines she didn't deny there was no quota for highway patrol.

And I'll say it till the cows come home if you get caught speeding don't whinge,how often have you sped and not caught,in my case heaps(read mostly travel 110-120km),so if I'm caught just cop it sweet,and contribute my invoice to the sales(not quota)figures for the month.

[MSTRS]

Disgruntled too, just about every one of them...
I wonder why.



(Stop trolling - somebody might think you mean what you say...)
I suppose I'll have to be careful. Wouldn't want to go over quota...oops, sorry, performance indicator.

[tri boy]

Paula Rose, (i think thats what that stupid bints name), said there is no qouta, but she expects the officers to work.??????
WTF does that mean?

If they are not writing out a shit load of tickets, they are not working?

So, if the local officers are doing school education for kiddies about road sence, they are not working?

She has to be one of the poorest spokespeople for the rozza's.

Who does she think she is kidding.

Big praise for the career officer who spoke up. He may have an axe to grind, but if there wasn't filthy laundry in the force, then why would such cops step forward?

Flip it over, cops often put up the argument, "if you have nothing to hide, then why not co-operate".

Well, if he has nothing to say that is truthful, why would a career cop speak up?

[Max Preload]

So if a cop managed to achieve his 'quota' by writing out 100% of his tickets as compliance ones would he be in trouble?
No.Has anyone ever done it and proven your theory?

[scumdog]

Has anyone ever done it and proven your theory?

I wouldn't have said it if it hasn't already been done...:shifty:

Having said that, there IS an expectation that a certain number of ticket be written out for 'trauma-related' offences - failing to wear seat-belt, cutting corners, etc etc.

[Bassmatt]

there IS an expectation that a certain number of ticket be written out for 'trauma-related' offences

Otherwise known as a Quota.:yes:

[scumdog]

Otherwise known as a Quota.:yes:

No problem if you want to call it a quota - only I thought a quota was a maximum amount, you know like a paua quota etc...:blink:

[Max Preload]

No problem if you want to call it a quota - only I thought a quota was a maximum amount, you know like a paua quota etc...:blink:A quota is a share. It can be a maximum or minimum or an exact figure depending on context. Obviously, when discussing job performance, it'd be a minimum - nobody is going to moan if you exceed a minimum level of job performance.

[steve_t]

Having said that, there IS an expectation that a certain number of ticket be written out...

Oh, how interesting :corn:

[twinbruva]

Oh, how interesting :corn:

Here's something else that's interesting; cops are still doing u-turns in silly places. Heading toward Murchison today (yes, the Buller region, again) my other half observed a revenue collector heading south while a dweeb on a sports bike was heading north (overtaking my missus) doing way more than 100kph. My missus thought the rider would get away with it coz there was nowhere for the cop to turn around.

No such luck. Cop does u-turn in twisty area, overtakes my missus in dumb place and nabs sports bike rider.

Ka-ching.

[rastuscat]

So if a cop managed to achieve his 'quota' by writing out 100% of his tickets as compliance ones would he be in trouble?

On my section I'd be dark on someone if they only wrote compliance tickets. That's coz there is no compliance for red lights, stop signs and seatbelts, the things I expect my troops to do.

Sure, if there was a vehicle registration targeting squad, I'd be okay with them just doing compliance. But my team works on the things that cause crashes, and they can't be complied.

Harumph.

[Scuba_Steve]

On my section I'd be dark on someone if they only wrote compliance tickets. That's coz there is no compliance for red lights, stop signs and seatbelts, the things I expect my troops to do.

Sure, if there was a vehicle registration targeting squad, I'd be okay with them just doing compliance. But my team works on the things that cause crashes, and they can't be complied.

Harumph.

FYI seatbelts don't cause crashes... :D

[rastuscat]

FYI seatbelts don't cause crashes... :D

Nope, but given that crashes happen, seatbelts prevent injuries.

Side impact beams, airbags and crumple zones don't prevent crashes either, but they are still a bloody good idea.

So there.

[DMNTD]

Nope, but given that crashes happen, seatbelts prevent injuries.

Side impact beams, airbags and crumple zones don't prevent crashes either, but they are still a bloody good idea.

So there.

Oh I did chortle!

[rastuscat]

Interesting, you've opened up a concept I work with.

Some things cause crashes, like crossing a centreline at a bad time. We work to discourage that.

However, we accept that some crashes will happen, so we work to reduce the damage done by enforcing seatbelts, helmets, speed.

Cool to see someone recognizing the difference.

[rastuscat]

Mmmmmmmm, donuts. Popo cuppa tea time coming up.

[Scuba_Steve]

Interesting, you've opened up a concept I work with.

Some things cause crashes, like crossing a centreline at a bad time. We work to discourage that.

However, we accept that some crashes will happen, so we work to reduce the damage done by enforcing seatbelts, helmets, speed.

Cool to see someone recognizing the difference.

:laugh: yea I was just nit picking. but I do sometimes disagree with seatbelt enforcement & definitely disagree with speed (if your talking straight "limits"). helmets are good tho, I like helmets :yes:.

[mashman]

:laugh: yea I was just nit picking. but I do sometimes disagree with seatbelt enforcement & definitely disagree with speed (if your talking straight "limits"). helmets are good tho, I like helmets :yes:.

A friend of a friend, yes yes, could be an old wives tale (as i'd heard it before from someone else), but a friend of mine told me that his firemen friends take their seatbelts off once they reach the city limits. They don't like the idea of being in a car for a high speed smash and would prefer to be away from the vehicle if at all possible, either through the windscreen, or if there's time, straight out the door. Wonder why that is, hmmmm...

[rastuscat]

I have lived in NZ for most of my 45 years, and confess that I'm not an expert in road safety or vehicle engineering. Coz of that I trust the people who make the cars. Luckily, they have spent gazillions of $$$$$ in R&D, and learned a few things about driver and passenger safety.

Their research has shown that seatbelts are a good idea. Holden calls airbags a supplemental restraint system (SRS), as they only work properly in conjunction with seatbelts. Airbags are normally designed with the intention of supplementing the protection of an occupant who is correctly restrained with a seatbelt.

Why spend money on a car full of safety equipment, then negate them all by not wearing the fundamental system called the seatbelt? It's free to use, and poses a far greater safety factor than a risk.

Manufacturers emphasize that an airbag is not, and can not be an alternative to seatbelts. They emphasize that they are only supplemental to a seatbelt. Hence the commonly used term "Supplemental Restraint System" or SRS. It is vitally important that drivers and passengers are aware of this. In the majority of cases of death caused by air bags, seat belts were not worn.

People who habitually don't wear them use all sorts of reasons to justify their decision, most of which have been discounted by research over the years. But that's their view, and it will not change.

Lots contend that it is a personal choice issue. I'd agree, if the taxpayer didn't have to pay for the facial reconstruction that would be required in the event of a nasty crash.

So there.

[MSTRS]

Not the taxpayer...our vehicle levies to ACC.

[Scuba_Steve]

Well there's the 1st point why should anyone else tell you what you can and can't do to yourself?
but then we have ACC "everyone pays" so why should we pay for someone else to damage themselves?
Both valid arguments.

But what I'm talking bout especially is my "cage" of choice is a van, old reliable 80's vans now if I'm in a crash I'm fucked seatbelt or not I'm fucked just like on a bike (if not worse) but without the safety gear (the cops won't even let me wear a helmet)
On the other hand I have a Land-Rover now I'd be quite happy to wear a belt in this for safety but I'm not allowed, it is illegal for me to wear my belt in my Land-Rover despite it actually providing some sort of safety net in this vehicle.

These are some of my personal reason's for not liking seatbelt enforcement. I also don't like the way they put the responsibility almost wholly on the driver either

[StoneY]

Coincidentally, this crackdown got me on the 13th!

114kmh.... and the way that patrol unit did his u-turn and accelerated after me was impressive......also that he overshot where I had pulled over for him by about 20 meters was also impressive (he musta thought I was doing a runner as opposed to looking for a safe spot to pull over, rather than mid highway bend....)

AND the U-Turn, done in the middle of a 8 bike pack travelling at highway speed was surely a safe, professional manouver (despite the other 7 riders that had to brake hard on a rise leadig into a bend...the same bend the cop exceuted the u-turn on)

Top it all off, the tickets been written for a bike that does not exist!
I car jammed the rego number written on the ticket and no return- it dont exist!
Hows that for magic! I ride bikes that are non existent according to this police officer from Martinborough!
Amazing what a difference the order the numbers and letters are written in can make

:-)

[Ocean1]

Their research has shown that seatbelts are a good idea.

Research shows that 4 point full harnesses and HANS systems are a fucking outstanding idea. Where do you draw the line?

The answer, of course is where the people using the systems decide the price, inconvenience or discomfort outweighs the safety advantages.

The people using the systems. That's not the same people paying for the consequences of that decision. See where this is going? When the service user isn't the one paying for the service you immediately have an artificial market.

Doesn't matter who's "ethically right", "legally right" or just plain "right", an artificial market can't "work" in the sense of a commercial entity might be considered to work. IE: break even.

So, y'see, way back when it was suggested that my sins would be remitted by ‘Er majesty’s servants by the simple expediency of dipping into the general funds obtained from the great unwashed, (rather than build roads and ‘com’s systems and dams, etc, etc.) I thought: wait for it, wait for it...

And it's taken a while, and the costs of a few additional transgressions and some plain misfortunes have been added to the list, but someone's finally figured out that the system can't pay for itself. And that my behaviour needs to change, in order that the great unwashed can afford to cover my sins and my misfortune.

In the meantime, I've paid enough money to cover a great deal more sin than I've actually enjoyed. So if they now want me to behave in a manner synonymous with my specific contribution to the cause, then I'm cool with that.

If, however, they just want me to slow down 'cause it'll cost the great unwashed less that way then I can but suggest that they’d be better fucking off to build some infrastructure somewhere. ‘Cause I’ll be checking the balance sheet, and I'll likely be over there… sinnin’ a bit and bein’ generally wicked.

[Patrick]

Dunno why the quota word is such a feared beast... that gets the motorbikers all in a frothy slather.... and Police Bosses diving for cover....

If you do one hours work on traffic duty, 1 ticket is to be issued. That is what is expected. Some will write more, some may write less, but 1-1 is the expected.

If that is "quota" then call it "quota..."

Far easier to write, spell and say, than "performance indicator..."

[MSTRS]

The problem that we have is the denial of a quota from the brass. Denying something, and then calling it something else, is guaranteed to leave the public mistrustful.
From the public's point of view, a quota is what it is, and the fear (if you will) is that cops must write a certain number of tickets and will make up shit to achieve that if they have to.

[Patrick]

The problem that we have is the denial of a quota from the brass. Denying something, and then calling it something else, is guaranteed to leave the public mistrustful.
From the public's point of view, a quota is what it is, and the fear (if you will) is that cops must write a certain number of tickets and will make up shit to achieve that if they have to.

Nice try...

Never made up one - never need to... far too many willing donors out there....

[MSTRS]

Good for you. And I'm sure that we've all seen enough of your posts for us to believe you, too. The public don't know that for a certainty, though. Plus you are just one of many, and we also know that not all of them are squeaky...

[scumdog]

From the public's point of view, a quota is what it is, and the fear (if you will) is that cops must write a certain number of tickets and will make up shit to achieve that if they have to.

Fark, too many bozos out there to need to 'make up shit' !!

Hell, if I even have any second thoughts at all about whether the person was wearing a seatbelt or not - or which car was doing the speed showing on the radar? - I don't even stop them..
Plenty more fish in the sea!:yes:

[MSTRS]

But you are KB's official GC. We'd expect nothing less of you.
The jury is still out on Rastuscat...

[Berries]

Their research has shown that seatbelts are a good idea. Holden calls airbags a supplemental restraint system (SRS), as they only work properly in conjunction with seatbelts. Airbags are normally designed with the intention of supplementing the protection of an occupant who is correctly restrained with a seatbelt.
That may be the case nowadays, but I always understood that the Americans brought in the use of airbags to try and save all those people who refused to wear seatbelts.

[rastuscat]

The jury is still out on Rastuscat...

Oooooooooooo........................

Just to clarify. I'm with MSTRS.

Can anyone on KB really claim that they spend some time on the street and not see someone who deserves ticketed for something? Like, once an hour?

If so, they aren't looking.

Enough, in fact, that I don't have to make it up. Why would I, there are far more than enough to do my job without having to tell porkies.

Donuts donuts donuts.

[dogsnbikes]

Donuts donuts donuts.

With all this talk about donut's and quota's ....what is the qouta of donuts I require to travel from Wgtn to Wanganui?:innocent:

[rastuscat]

For every 15 tickets I write, I get a free dozen mini-donuts.....................um....................d id I just write that?:shit:

[MSTRS]

Oooooooooooo........................

Just to clarify. I'm with MSTRS.



Can you just stand over to the side where I can see you, please.
I don't know you well enough to trust you standing right there behind me.
Thanks.
:innocent:

[bogan]

so to go back to the original topic, has anyone gone through one of these checkpoints yet? I've tried to get a flyer from the cop shop (twice) with no luck, maybe I went at the wrong time, but one would think theres never a wrong time for safety time right?

[BoristheBiter]

so to go back to the original topic, has anyone gone through one of these checkpoints yet? I've tried to get a flyer from the cop shop (twice) with no luck, maybe I went at the wrong time, but one would think theres never a wrong time for safety time right?

Why? Do you think you will learn something or is just for more things to whine about that the cops have got wrong?

why bother?

[bogan]

Why? Do you think you will learn something or is just for more things to whine about that the cops have got wrong?

why bother?

because knowing is half the battle!

[MSTRS]

If police are wanting to reach as many bikers as possible, don't you think they'd be falling all over themselves to give a pamphlet to someone who asked for one?
Just how many bikers do you think they'll see at the roadside?
Or is it as I hinted in an earlier post...you have to 'run the checkpoint gauntlet', which gives the cops an opportunity to find something to ping you with, first?

[BoristheBiter]

Fuck me. I wish i had the huge amount of time on my hands as you guys seem to.
To spend all that time and energy on something that might at sometime possibly effect you.

[bogan]

If police are wanting to reach as many bikers as possible, don't you think they'd be falling all over themselves to give a pamphlet to someone who asked for one?
Just how many bikers do you think they'll see at the roadside?
Or is it as I hinted in an earlier post...you have to 'run the checkpoint gauntlet', which gives the cops an opportunity to find something to ping you with, first?

but with nobody I know actually going through one of these checkpoints... is it just scare tactics?


Fuck me. I wish i had the huge amount of time on my hands as you guys seem to.
To spend all that time and energy on something that might at sometime possibly effect you.

I think most of us don't do it for ourselves, we do it to preserve and protect motorcycling for all new zealanders, present and future.

[JakeTehMuss]

so to go back to the original topic, has anyone gone through one of these checkpoints yet? I've tried to get a flyer from the cop shop (twice) with no luck, maybe I went at the wrong time, but one would think theres never a wrong time for safety time right?


but with nobody I know actually going through one of these checkpoints... is it just scare tactics?

:blink: Not sure if this was one of the proper bike checkpoint but...

I did the Coro loop last Friday playing Tag-o-Rama.

As i was leaving Waihi I turn the corner and solo :Police: In middle of road puts his hand up to signal me to stop in the middle of the lane.
Conversation:

:Police: Good afternoon, Just checking W.O.F. and REG today.
:Police: Are they paid and up to date?
:scooter: Yes, Everything is up to date. They are just behind the licence plate if you would like to check.
:Police: No thats fine. Have a good day.

Key Points:

As i was rolling up to him, I managed to find Neutral and lift my visor up.
He didn't offer me any 'Safety Flyers' Or lecture
He didn't physically check my W.O.F, Reg or my Licence (wof runs out this weekend)
All this took less than 20sec...

I guess it's all about your attitude anyway Another nice :Police: +1 for me.



...Or is it as I hinted in an earlier post...you have to 'run the checkpoint gauntlet', which gives the cops an opportunity to find something to ping you with, first?

Or you could give this a try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cMHuPPaNiE

[ducatilover]

I have not seen any check points yet, but, I suppose I'm not really in the central region and don't spend too much time on the highways, too beige.

[BoristheBiter]

but with nobody I know actually going through one of these checkpoints... is it just scare tactics?



I think most of us don't do it for ourselves, we do it to preserve and protect motorcycling for all new zealanders, present and future.

What planet are you on?
Are you that much of a conspiracy theorist to believe that they are trying to ban motorcycles?