Splitter Escort 8500 X 50

[Gixxer 4 ever]

I purchased an Escort 8500 X50 :love: Radar detector 2 weeks ago and went to plug the ear plugs in and found it was mono. No problem but would have been good to know before I set out for a long ride. Dropped in to Dick Smith and got an adaptor. Mono to stereo. Had to purchase the splitter adapter as it was all they had. No problem and the ride went well.

The question is. Can I feed music in to the spare plug on the splitter from my MP3 player? I know it will carry to my head phones but will it damage the X 50? Remember I will be sending power back to the X50 from the MP3 Player.
It would be so good to put the MP3 player in the tank bag and run a short lead to the splitter and have the head phones with music and the occasional loud Beeep Beeeep Beeep.
I have asked my supplier and they are unsure. To expensive to damage but there are some people here that know this stuff.

[Lou Girardin]

I purchased an Escort 8500 X50 :love: Radar detector 2 weeks ago and went to plug the ear plugs in and found it was mono. No problem but would have been good to know before I set out for a long ride. Dropped in to Dick Smith and got an adaptor. Mono to stereo. Had to purchase the splitter adapter as it was all they had. No problem and the ride went well.

The question is. Can I feed music in to the spare plug on the splitter from my MP3 player? I know it will carry to my head phones but will it damage the X 50? Remember I will be sending power back to the X50 from the MP3 Player.
It would be so good to put the MP3 player in the tank bag and run a short lead to the splitter and have the head phones with music and the occasional loud Beeep Beeeep Beeep.
I have asked my supplier and they are unsure. To expensive to damage but there are some people here that know this stuff.

I'm no electronics whizz, but I think you'll need a diode in the escort cable to prevent back-feed to it.

[Biff]

I'm no electronics whizz, but I think you'll need a diode in the escort cable to prevent back-feed to it.

Yup. Pretty much any diode will do. No need to use a zenner though.

I'm trying to viualise your splitter. Is it this type of splitter?:

http://img113.echo.cx/img113/2364/splitter1kc.png

If so then place the diodes in line as shown, with the polarity as shown. You may not actually need one on the - rail, but without knowing what the final circuit of the Escort looks like it's always best to protect both rails IMO.

Excuse the obvious typo in the diagram.

[Gixxer 4 ever]

Thank you for your help Lou and Biff. Very much what I thought. I didn't want to try it incase it did it damage. The supplier is going to ask the manufacturer so I will post his reply here if I get one. Then I will put the two diodes in to protect the X50.
Thanks people :niceone:
Steve

[BNZ]

Sick of the sound of the gixxer????

[Gixxer 4 ever]

Sick of the sound of the gixxer????
No. Bat out of Hell will inspire me to change out of second. :motu:

[MSTRS]

Sick of the sound of the gixxer????
Sound of silence? Mach 1 you know.

[sAsLEX]

To expensive to damage but there are some people here that know this stuff.

yeah dont get them wet they dont like that! mine got wet once, worked for a while after with more falses now it dont! going to try fix it in the uni break

[Virago]

Yup. Pretty much any diode will do. No need to use a zenner though.

I'm trying to viualise your splitter. Is it this type of splitter?:

http://img113.echo.cx/img113/2364/splitter1kc.png

If so then place the diodes in line as shown, with the polarity as shown. You may not actually need one on the - rail, but without knowing what the final circuit of the Escort looks like it's always best to protect both rails IMO.

Excuse the obvious typo in the diagram........the two diodes as shown will block the Escort circuit??????? One should do it, on the positive side.

[Gixxer 4 ever]

.......the two diodes as shown will block the Escort circuit??????? .
.Yep that's what we want. We need to stop the voltage going from the MP3 to the Escort. Diodes will let current go one way. In this case it should let the current from the Escort out and stop it going in from the MP3 Player. Isn't that it Biff ?

[Biff]

.......the two diodes as shown will block the Escort circuit??????? One should do it, on the positive side.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "will block the Escort circuit". The only concern I have is the ablility of the diode to pass a non DC biased signal (audio is AC). I'll pop over to the lab shortly and run a couple of tests. I've done it before for a very similar application before, albeit using pin diodes. So we may need to be specific about the diode groups that would be suitable.

One 'may' do it, but if the there's a 'sensitive' final audio stage of the radar detector (or similar) I most certainly wouldn't want anything leaking back into it and running the risk of popping the circuit. And I for one wouldn't like to give out any advice that runs the risk of blowing the mans radar detector. So IMO it's always better to be cautious in the first instance. So placing a diode in the '-' circuit may be the safest thing to do.

Bottom line is 'hexperimentation'. But I'll keep you posted on my test results this avo or tomorrow.


.Yep that's what we want. We need to stop the voltage going from the MP3 to the Escort. Diodes will let current go one way. In this case it should let the current from the Escort out and stop it going in from the MP3 Player. Isn't that it Biff ?

Yep.

[Ixion]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "will block the Escort circuit". The only concern I have is the ablility of the diode to pass a non DC biased signal (audio is AC). I'll pop over to the lab shortly and run a couple of tests. I've done it before for a very similar application before, albeit using pin diodes. So we may need to be specific about the diode groups that would be suitable.
..

[Puts on +6 Hat of Total Ignorance and gazes adoringly up at expert]

If the signal is AC won't a diode rectify it and turn it into half wave DC ?

[Gixxer 4 ever]

The only concern I have is the ablility of the diode to pass a non DC biased signal (audio is AC).

Darn I'm pleased I asked. I did not know that. Lucky I am old enough to know I know not enough.

[Biff]

Lab report:

As expected the signal was clipped and rectified, so it depends on what kind of tones your Escort gives out. I put some audio tones through a standard diode and listened to the outputs.

With a 'beep--beep-- beep--beep' sound - I had 'beep-beep-beep' on the output. Although he 'beep' in the result was more a mixture of a 'beep' and a 'click' , if that makes sense.

With a continuos 'beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep' - the sound was 'clipped' as the diode rectified the signal and we got a 'beep-beep-beep'.

If the beeps are fast the sound you get out is just a series of high speed 'clicks'.

So it depends on what kind of audio signal your Escort gives out. And what you're happy with listening to. It also depends on the pitch/frequency of the noise the Escort makes.

I've done this sort of job before on a Uniden and it worked fine, the sounds changed slightly but the audio could still be heard ok and the tones it gave out were still easily distinguishable so that you could tell what they meant.

If you try this and your not happy with the result PM me and I'll send you a little circuit diagram for a switching circuit that'll pass the audio through 'as is'. For a couple of $$ I'll even build it for you. You just pay for the bits and the postage. :niceone:


If the signal is AC won't a diode rectify it and turn it into half wave DC ? Yes it will rectify it, but not (quite) to a half wave DC as there's a lack of harmonics to the AC element of the signal.

Does anyone want to make an arse of themselves (as I've done) and write, or even better record) the sounds an Escort makes when approaching, sitting on a radar/laser. i'll then attempt to simulate this.

[Quasievil]

yeah dont get them wet they dont like that! mine got wet once, worked for a while after with more falses now it dont! going to try fix it in the uni break

I got a Cobra 9100 you can have if you can be bothered fixing it, it was a refurbed one that has never worked prolly something simple !
otherwise it will be in the bin this week

[Virago]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "will block the Escort circuit"...........
Hey don't mind me, I'm just showing my ignorance. I was looking at it as a DC circuit, forgetting that audio was AC. It's good that you have finally come out of the closet and confirmed that you are AC/DC........ :killingme

Keep it up Biff, you're educating a lot of people out here :niceone:

[Biff]

It's good that you have finally come out of the closet and confirmed that you are AC/DC........ :killingme

Don't knock it until you've tired it. :whistle:


Keep it up Biff, you're educating a lot of people out here :niceone:

Well - it's been almost 10 years since I was last a 'proper' electronimaconical engineer. I'm waiting for FDM or some other young wipper snapper to come up with a better solution at the mo'. Otherwise the circuit I design with contain about 15 valves and be driven by steam.

[Gixxer 4 ever]

Otherwise the circuit I design with contain about 15 valves and be driven by steam.
I am going to need a bigger bike to carry that around :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Pixie]

[Puts on +6 Hat of Total Ignorance and gazes adoringly up at expert]

If the signal is AC won't a diode rectify it and turn it into half wave DC ?
The signal will be modulated DC

[speights_bud]

How about plugging the earplugs in as usual, running the mono earplug from the X 50 into your left ear. Meanwhile the Mp3 player is plugged as usual, except only the right earplug is used, whilst the other is dropped into your jacket? sacrifices stereo music for mono but should save the X 50.

[WINJA]

I THINK IT SHOULD BE A CASE OF SHOULD I DO IT RATHER THAN CAN IT BE DONE , JUST MY OPINION BUT WHEN I RIDE I RIDE AND NOTHING ELSE , I DONT THINK ANY RIDERS SHOULD HAVE A DISTRACTION , I DONT HAVE A RADAR DETECTOR BUT THEN I DONT STOP

[Biff]

The signal will be modulated DC

:no:
Rectified :yes:

[Gixxer 4 ever]

I forgot to mention that it has occurred to me that we need to protect the MP3 player from the X 50 as well. With all the teck talk going on in here I wounder what the music will sound like after it has been Rectified. Still Meat loaf is a big boy and I am sure he will do it well.

Ha WINJA I would have said that, and have here before, that music would be distracting but now I am getting old and have slowed down to nearly legal speed it is not a problem. I hated the earplugs when I first put them on for the X 50 but now I know how to wear them they are not unpleasant at all. And Meat Loaf will never distract me. In fact it just might get me out of second gear.

I will post the results of some work that is being done when we get it out on the road in real world trials. This thread might be gone by then so may have to start another. Keep at it Biff. :niceone:

[Gixxer 4 ever]

How about plugging the earplugs in as usual, running the mono earplug from the X 50 into your left ear. Meanwhile the Mp3 player is plugged as usual, except only the right earplug is used, whilst the other is dropped into your jacket? sacrifices stereo music for mono but should save the X 50.
This would be the easiest way to do it and good on you for the idea but the challenge is to real and and if it can be done why not try it. Tis good to see some real tecko brains working on it. Way out of my league but some people do this for a living. There could be a market out there for someone. I note an interest due to the increase in Radar detectors being used. They are cheap compared to the fines. I see plenty of X 50's saving money. Remember a fine saved will impact on your insurance. Should you choose to declare it.

And by the way This is your second post so assume you are new to KB Welcome to the mad house :weird: and may your riding be fun and safe. :yes:

[Gixxer 4 ever]

So thank goodness for people like Biff. This reply came from the company that supplies the person that supplied me. So all credit to Ryan for calling them and asking the question. No points to them for the answer

(clip) Well, heres what I have been told .. I am serious, my supplier who has been in business for a little over 30 years, he often likes to take the micky out of things.

Serious first:

He said that if the impedance of the escort earphone and that of the MP3 player are the same, then there shouldn’t be any problems but cant say for sure.

Micky:

On the lighter note he suggested that ‘one should separate business from pleasure’ … so in one ear have mp3 earphone and the other ear have radar output. (clip)

:rofl: :rofl:
But Ryan has given me a good warenty option. Top man and appreciat it thanks Ryan. :niceone:

[notme]

Well I'm putting this here after swapping emails with Gixxer 4 ever in case it benefits others too :)

Here's the lowdown on mixing audio out from 2 or more sources - here we're talking specifically about an X50 radar detector and an MP3 player....forgive any big words, i try to explain things so that most people can understand them but big words and techo terms are sometimes necessary - in the same vein, any other techo's who read this please don't berate me for slightly fuzzing some technical details in the interests of making it easier to understand! :devil2:

The issue with mixing any audio sources is that the output stages of the radar detector/mp3 player/radio/whatever don't generally like having another source fed back into them.
An easy way to think about it is that each source has an output stage impedance (how hard it is to get audio signals in or out of it) and if your mp3 player is putting lotsa signal onto a common line and your radar detector is putting only a little power onto that same common line, the radar detector will lose the battle and probably be damaged. :oi-grr:

To prevent this, what Biff has been saying is exactly right - you need to stop the audio from one device's output from flowing back into another device, meaning you can't just connect 2 sources to the same pair of headphones without taking some measure to prevent this. The idea of using diodes will work fine, except (again as Biff has already said) for some clipping and distortion of the sound.

You can also try the other trick that has been mentioned - split the left and right headphones between the 2 devices. You lose your stereo music and might have problems when you add another device though...

A "better" way - note that "better" depends on the person, the application, the budget etc, would be to have a small active circuit that switches the feed to the headphones between radar detector and the MP3 player. Just imagine a physical switch that does this - now imagine we have a wee circuit that detects a signal on the radar detector line and when it sees this signal it flicks the switch until the signal goes away, when it flicks it back to your music.

That's slightly more complex (and more $$$) than a couple of diodes but would give you perfect audio from either source and no risk to either device, as well as actually switching the audio rather than putting the radar detector audio over the top of the music. Perfect audio might not be a concern for some, but if your detector talks to you you might want it to be undistorted....

However, there's a 99% chance that if you tried the diode trick on an X50 radar detector, it wouldn't work.....because these detectors and quite a few others (at least newer ones seem to) use a bridged output amp stage and because of electronic trickamagiggery, you end up sorting the signal of one of the devices. There's also some MP3 players and other equipment that are smart enough to look at the load on it's output and try to change the output or at least turn off the output 'cos it thinks there is a problem there if they see something on the output that doesn't look like a pair of headphones.

So, we need yet more thought (ow, my brain) to overcome that issue as well:

The solution to this one is to isolate the outputs of the devices from each other so that they :Playnice:

This can be as simple as a small audio transformer or as complex as an optical isolation circuit - but if you design it right the mp3 player or whatever will see the same impedance as if it was the only device plugged in, the radar detector will be happy and all will be sweetness and light.

So....If you have some types of radar detector and just want it to make some sort of beep over the top of your music so that you look at it to see what's up - a couple of diodes is what you need. If you only have one good ear or only 2 devices - you might be happy with splitting left and right between the 2 devices. If like me and mr Gixxer you have an X50 detector (and i'm sure a few other types) and would like the audio to switch over and be in stereo, then a full blown audio mixer is what you need.

So....hope that helps anyone who wanted to know ! :whocares:

I may get around to building something for this, but first I am making a wireless helmet warning light for my radar detector...will post the results back here 'cos H.A.R.D systems are damn expensive for what they are!

[Gixxer 4 ever]

Thanks for your time and taking the time to post. I have found this so interesting. I have been reading a book called two-stroke Tuners handbook. When you see info in the posts here and read a book like this you really get to appreciate what other people do for a living. Thanks people. :Punk: :yes: