"Every officer to issue, on average, 1500 tickets a year..."

[Conquiztador]

From HB Today 15 November 2010:

A retired Southland police officer has condemned the road policing policy that he says has too much focus on revenue gathering.

Phil Robertson, a senior constable at Te Anau, retired last week after 34 years on the force, to take up a job with St John Ambulance but also because of dissatisfaction with road policing policy, the Southland Times reported.

He said as a highway patrol officer there was too much pre-occupation with ticket numbers, and "easy route" that was not the only way to stop driving offences and road deaths.

"I just don't see monetary fines or a requirement for every officer to issue, on average, 1500 tickets a year as being enough of a deterrent."

That equals to approx 30 tickets per week per highway officer. Not sure how many there are, but apperently there is over 11,000 police officers in NZ. If 25% of those are highway ones then we are talking 82,500 tickets that has to be written out per week...

[scumdog]

Whoops, I'm only 1480 tickets short..

[Laava]

Can you issue me a ticket to the mission concert?

[Max Preload]

Whoops, I'm only 1480 tickets short..Better go trump some more up! Chop chop!

[pete376403]

After the weekends road toll, Paula Rose should be offering her resignation in view of the failure of the current policy of emphasising speeding enforcement to reduce the number of fatalities.







Yeah right..

[Kickaha]

After the weekends road toll, Paula Rose should be offering her resignation in view of the failure of the current policy of emphasising speeding enforcement to reduce the number of fatalities.


Well they should have kept the 4kmh tolerance in operation as it worked so well labour weekend

[scissorhands]

You always get a spike out of the blue, like with most things.

4-5 tickets a day is hardly working over the public, hell if I was a cop I could sort 5 tickets before 10am monday morning, then I wouldnt need to worry for the rest of the week....

Cops leave the force all the time.... too much stress aint it? You'd think the free drugs/whores would help but maybe they dont:shutup:

[HQfiend]

well the bike cop with the laser gun sitting at the Basin Reserve end of Kent Terrace this afternoon should have made his quota for the week in an hour or so!

[Conquiztador]

I don't want people dying on our roads and I am sure nobody wants that. But without becoming totally draconian, what can be done?

I had a read of the:

"Safer Journeys –
New Zealand’s Road Safety Strategy 2010 to 2020" http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/informationreleases/ris/pdfs/ris-transport-sjnzrss-mar10.pdf
But I was not impressed. Motorcycling was considered a "High Concern" but the only thing they had come up with was the change to what a novice can ride and training for novices. When reading more of this Strategy I find that it mainly focuses on dollar figures that ACC has to cover and how to reduce the cost of ACC. In short, I feel let down in what this strategy has to offer. (And nowhere in it have I found anything re stopping bikes and giving out leaflets...) There is the thinking here that the impact of a mistake on the road has to be minimised (we can all make mistakes and should be expected to at some stage make them) so that when we make one the outcome would not be so serious. Something in the way of: If we all were made to drive around in tanks and at max 30k/h the roadtoll and injuries would be dramatically reduced, perhaps even totally solved...

I did read some thinking from a chap that apperently had some new ideas re all this. He suggested razor wire barriers in the middle of all NZ roads...

So it seems that until someone comes up with a better idea we will be the target of more tickets.

[jafar]

Whoops, I'm only 1480 tickets short..

You won't be getting your XMAS bonus then scummy:bleh:

[LBD]

There is a little more to Phil than meets the average bikers eye...he is a really top bloke, very fair and reasoned in his approach to highway policing, extremely well respected and liked by the community and was, if not still, holds the title of NZ's longest serving Motorcycle policeman who became an officer only to to get paid to ride bikes. For many years he also rode his own sports bikes.

I am always on the look out for Phil in and around Te Anau...not because I don't want a booking but because I always stop and have a chat.

He will be missed, not least of all because he will likely be replaced with someone of a much less friendly community focused disposition....

[PrincessBandit]

I don't see how they'd have much difficulty meeting any quota - plenty of road users are more than happy to oblige (even if they're not happy to pay), even on stretches of road which are known patrolling grounds.

[Blackshear]

That evens out to be around 3 tickets per living soul in NZ per year.

I can thus deduce that our policing force is shit due to the fact I've only had 1 per year so far, WHERE IS MY TAX MONEY GOING HMMM?

Lol.

[Swoop]

Well they should have kept the 4kmh tolerance in operation as it worked so well labour weekend
You forgot the "Tui Advert ending" to that statement.:yes:

[Katman]

But I was not impressed. Motorcycling was considered a "High Concern" but the only thing they had come up with was the change to what a novice can ride and training for novices. When reading more of this Strategy I find that it mainly focuses on dollar figures that ACC has to cover and how to reduce the cost of ACC. In short, I feel let down in what this strategy has to offer.


That's because the greatest improvement to our accident stats would be achieved by a widespread improvement in the general attitude of motorcyclists towards Motorcycling.

[MSTRS]

That's because the greatest improvement to our accident stats would be achieved by a widespread improvement in the general attitude of motorcyclists towards Motorcycling.

The beatings will continue until morale improves?
Externally applied motivation has never worked. But expecting an 'inside job' from rebels is also doomed to fail.
Back to the beatings...might as well make some money off 'em, eh?

[Katman]

Externally applied motivation has never worked. But expecting an 'inside job' from rebels is also doomed to fail.


I've long since given up picturing myself as a 'rebel' just because I ride a motorcycle and I'm sure there's many others that think the same way.

The 'inside job' doesn't have to be left up to the rebels.

[Conquiztador]

That's because the greatest improvement to our accident stats would be achieved by a widespread improvement in the general attitude of motorcyclists towards Motorcycling.

I have no problems with working with novices in the way they are planning to. And with time it might perhaps have some impact. My point was more to say that I am not impressed that the only place there was a plan to do work was with novices. So it looks like more training for novices/less powerful bikes for them and fines for the rest of us is the plan here... Hope that study did not cost any money.

[Mully]

The trouble, IMHFO, is that the road toll is due to the poor standard of drivers (and riders) in this country. They drive too fast for the conditions (their own, their car, the road, the weather)

TPTB, rather than require a harder set of testing than stuff that wouldn't tax the abilities of a mildly retarded chimp, and require regular refreshers of higher skills want a simple solution. So they bang the drum of "speed kills".

Then, when they get a statistical blip (aided by the weather) for the 4km/h speed tolerance, they proclaim their ideas "awesome" and do it again.

[Winston001]

......WHERE IS MY TAX MONEY GOING HMMM?



Here: http://www.treasury.govt.nz/government/financialstatements/yearend/jun10/07.htm

$46 billion on Social Welfare (including national superannuation), health, and education. Plus an other $36 billion on the rest.

Traffic tickets are not even a pimple. :D

[avgas]

Awesome figures.
Pity fuck all of the offenders are paying them.

Sounds all rather ETS to me.

[avgas]

Here: http://www.treasury.govt.nz/government/financialstatements/yearend/jun10/07.htm

$46 billion on Social Welfare (including national superannuation), health, and education. Plus an other $36 billion on the rest.

Traffic tickets are not even a pimple. :D
Just as a ball park figure...
1500 tickets
11000 cops
Say $100 avg ticket
$1,650,000,000,000

So obviously there are some slackers in the force. lol

ps: works out at about $400 / person per year.....so yep its a traffic scam

[Winston001]

The trouble, IMHFO, is that the road toll is due to the poor standard of drivers (and riders) in this country. They drive too fast for the conditions (their own, their car, the road, the weather)



I agree although I'm not sure about the poor standard of drivers. I think we are average, normal. What we have are a lot of twisty roads and very powerful vehicles so that half a seconds inattention can result in tragedy.

As for enforcing speed limits - it is the simplest method to try and keep every driver within a tolerable survivable zone. In fact I suspect 80kph would be a more sensible speed and save more lives but politicians know the public won't stand for that.

Yes yes I know the autobahns of Europe have much higher speeds but they aren't exactly the Coro Loop. Ordinary roads have much lower speed limits.

[Banditbandit]

That's because the greatest improvement to our accident stats would be achieved by a widespread improvement in the general attitude of motorcyclists towards Motorcycling.

:rofl: Especially those with 90 demerit points already

(Yeah .. not going to let you get away with that too easily ...)

[p.dath]

It has already been announced that there is going to be a shift towards more demerit points, and less fines.

The "revenue gathering" excuse is pretty tired.

[Katman]

:rofl: Especially those with 90 demerit points already

(Yeah .. not going to let you get away with that too easily ...)

I did specifically say 'accident' stats though - not 'infringement' stats.

[Toaster]

Whoops, I'm only 1480 tickets short..

Performance managed much?!!

I got really peeved off when told that I had to issue them in the under 11km/h band despite meeting all other "output requirements". I thought the 20km/h+ band was at least reasonable and more justified.

If 61 in a 50 gets the same as 111 in a 100, then shouldn't a more fair approach allow 122 in a 100? Just a thought..... but hey 4km/h will no doubt become the new standard.

The local school here is often policed and there in NO toloerance at all. My neighbours and relatives in the area are getting done for 2 over the limit just by the 100km sign leaving or entering the village... ouch....

[MSTRS]

I've long since given up picturing myself as a 'rebel' just because I ride a motorcycle and I'm sure there's many others that think the same way.

The 'inside job' doesn't have to be left up to the rebels.

I was a rebel for all of a year around about 1976, when I rode a grotty old Trumpy and wore dirty jeans...oh, and I was 18.
Fact is, tho, that motorcycling does attract a certain 'type'. They aren't the type to conform to sensible wisdom. Maybe if motorcycling becomes blanc mange, they will find some other means of exercising the rebel within? Or will eventually die out?

[Toaster]

It has already been announced that there is going to be a shift towards more demerit points, and less fines.

The "revenue gathering" excuse is pretty tired.

Agreed. It's just a vent for the disgruntled to make themselves feel better about the consequences of their own actions and shifting blame on anything but themselves. The rules, like em or not, are clear. We only have ourselves to blame for adding to the MP travel perk fund.

I would rather take that money and use it on a decent track day or advance skills course than some stupid ticket.

[Toaster]

Just as a ball park figure...
1500 tickets
11000 cops
Say $100 avg ticket
$1,650,000,000,000

So obviously there are some slackers in the force. lol

ps: works out at about $400 / person per year.....so yep its a traffic scam


Breaches of RUC would net upwards of $10k on a goody. The record is in seven figures.....

[avgas]

Breaches of RUC would net upwards of $10k on a goody. The record is in seven figures.....
Bus sounds better everyday

[Banditbandit]

That's because the greatest improvement to our accident stats would be achieved by a widespread improvement in the general attitude of motorcyclists towards Motorcycling.


:rofl: Especially those with 90 demerit points already

(Yeah .. not going to let you get away with that too easily ...)


I did specifically say 'accident' stats though - not 'infringement' stats.

Yes ... It was the "attitude of motorcyclists" demonstrated by 90 (count them -ninety) demerit points that I was refering to ...

(Serves you right for the RED Rep from you when I was disqualified for too many demerits ...)

[mashman]

Fact is, tho, that motorcycling does attract a certain 'type'. They are the type to conform to sensible wisdom. Maybe if motorcycling becomes blanc mange, they will find some other means of exercising the rebel within? Or will eventually die out?

Fixed that for ya... you may need your perception receptors recalibrated :shifty:

[Swoop]

The trouble, IMHFO, is that the road toll is due to the poor standard of drivers (and riders) in this country. They drive too fast for the conditions (their own, their car, the road, the weather)

TPTB, rather than require a harder set of testing than stuff that wouldn't tax the abilities of a mildly retarded chimp, and require regular refreshers of higher skills want a simple solution. So they bang the drum of "speed kills".

Then, when they get a statistical blip (aided by the weather) for the 4km/h speed tolerance, they proclaim their ideas "awesome" and do it again.
Hey! Stop talking sense arond here ffs. I have to spread it around...

Breaches of RUC would net upwards of $10k on a goody. The record is in seven figures.....
A mate had to learn the calculation for RUC owing. For some perverse reason it amused him how many "undesirables" in 4x4 vehicles would like a large bill to pay.
Particularly when a few dealers were favouring the isuzu Mu...

[Edbear]

Performance managed much?!!

I got really peeved off when told that I had to issue them in the under 11km/h band despite meeting all other "output requirements". I thought the 20km/h+ band was at least reasonable and more justified.

If 61 in a 50 gets the same as 111 in a 100, then shouldn't a more fair approach allow 122 in a 100? Just a thought..... but hey 4km/h will no doubt become the new standard.

The local school here is often policed and there in NO toloerance at all. My neighbours and relatives in the area are getting done for 2 over the limit just by the 100km sign leaving or entering the village... ouch....

Aren't school zones limited to 40km/h at dropping off/picking up times..?


Breaches of RUC would net upwards of $10k on a goody. The record is in seven figures.....

A very nice Policeman let me off for being 900km over in Helensville one day as long as I promised to get it up to date ASAP, so I pulled over and rang the boss. Done! :sunny:


Yes ... It was the "attitude of motorcyclists" demonstrated by 90 (count them -ninety) demerit points that I was refering to ...

(Serves you right for the RED Rep from you when I was disqualified for too many demerits ...)

Eh? Katman giving out red rep..? Can't imagine why he'd be so quick to do that...? Talk about proverbial egg on face... :innocent:

[marty]

1500 tickets per HP officer per year is fuck all. spread that over 2080hrs of work in a 12 month period, it's less than 1 per work hour. i had guys doing 40 tickets a day without breaking a sweat. and they would warn 20 as well. 1 per hour is hardly stretching the capacity. ask yourself - am i gonna be the 1 per hour loser?

and for all those claiming 11000 officers writing 1500 tickets each - don't let facts get in the way of your waaaaing

[Toaster]

Aren't school zones limited to 40km/h at dropping off/picking up times..?



A very nice Policeman let me off for being 900km over in Helensville one day as long as I promised to get it up to date ASAP, so I pulled over and rang the boss. Done!


No they are not unless designated and sign-posted as 40km/h. The posted speed limit is what they have to work from. Kaukapakapa, like Waitoki, are both 50km/h zones and do not have the 40km/h temp speed zones in operation as those used around many urban schools.

Let you off or got you off? :innocent:

[Edbear]

No they are not unless designated and sign-posted as 40km/h. The posted speed limit is what they have to work from. Kaukapakapa, like Waitoki, are both 50km/h zones and do not have the 40km/h temp speed zones in operation as those used around many urban schools.

Let you off or got you off? :innocent:

Well, I'd say I got off but somehow that doesn't sound quite right now... :facepalm:

[MSTRS]

Getting off in a school zone can land you in court...if you know wh... - oops, wrong thread :shit:

[ajturbo]

Whoops, I'm only 1480 tickets short..

.. but your year started yesterday.....

[Conquiztador]

and for all those claiming 11000 officers writing 1500 tickets each - don't let facts get in the way of your waaaaing

Yes, recon they did not read the post properly. As I stated: I estimated that 25% of the officers were HP ones making it 2,750 writing 1,500/year. But you might be able to inform us how many are considered Highway Police?

[McJim]

Wow. Still bagging the police? As you were gentlemen. :)

[twinbruva]

Wow. Still bagging the police? As you were gentlemen. :)

Life's a two-way street....bikers are easy meat for the cops, so it stands to reason that cops would be easy meat on a biker website.

The last ticket I got was after driving over 3,000kms round the South Island and had the beeper on the dashboard keeping me honest. Then I overtook a tanker on a straight stretch, got to the utterly fatal speed of 116kph momemtarily and got pinged.

Was I exceeding the limit? Yes. Was it a 'fair cop'? I don't think so. There's no discretion these days. Many years ago (before quotas) that would probably have got me a warning; not so in today's world, there's too much money to be made.

[marty]

Yes, recon they did not read the post properly. As I stated: I estimated that 25% of the officers were HP ones making it 2,750 writing 1,500/year. But you might be able to inform us how many are considered Highway Police?

unlikely that it's 2750. There's only about 30 in the Waikato (3 sections of 10 staff each). Maybe 500 dedicated HP cops in the whole country. There are Strategic Traffic Units (city-bound traffic cars) - maybe 500 of those too, although I reckon both of those numbers are on the high side.

[Winston001]

Aren't school zones limited to 40km/h at dropping off/picking up times..?





Sort of. The speed limit for driving past a school bus on either side of the road is 20 km/h when children are getting on and off the bus. Used to be 15 miles per hour so that's been the law since forever. :D

This translates to a wise driver slowing to 20k when schools are opening and ending their days - buses are common.

[neels]

This translates to a wise driver slowing to 20k when schools are opening and ending their days - buses are common.
The bonus being that the distracted mother in the people mover behind you with her headlights and fog lights on at 3pm on a fine sunny day smears her lipstick as she applies it when she hits the brakes trying to avoid rear-ending you.

It's amazing how much obeying the 20k limit past a bus or 40k limit past a school pisses people off, everybody seems to be in such a hurry....

[marty]

The bonus being that the distracted mother in the people mover behind you with her headlights and fog lights on at 3pm on a fine sunny day smears her lipstick as she applies it when she hits the brakes trying to avoid rear-ending you.

It's amazing how much obeying the 20k limit past a bus or 40k limit past a school pisses people off, everybody seems to be in such a hurry....

yup. it never ceases to amaze me that some people don't get that how 'wasting' 10 seconds now can avoid a lifetime of depression and questions that are the inevitable result of smearing a child over the front of your vehicle.

I've attended 3 deaths of children in front of schools/school buses, and I have those questions - I still remember the children's and driver's names - it's not something that easily goes away.

[rastuscat]

That equals to approx 30 tickets per week per highway officer. Not sure how many there are, but apperently there is over 11,000 police officers in NZ. If 25% of those are highway ones then we are talking 82,500 tickets that has to be written out per week...

There are 225 Highway Patrol officers in NZ.

There are also other officers working in Road Policing, but not on Highway Patrol.

Still, like most, your ignorance is surely where you prefer to live.

[Conquiztador]

There are 225 Highway Patrol officers in NZ.

There are also other officers working in Road Policing, but not on Highway Patrol.

Still, like most, your ignorance is surely where you prefer to live.

Where did that come from? :blink: It was an estimate based on some assumptions. Thank you for correcting me. Come down from your high horse and I am sure we will get along.

[avgas]

There are 225 Highway Patrol officers in NZ.
There are also other officers working in Road Policing, but not on Highway Patrol.
Still, like most, your ignorance is surely where you prefer to live.
Sweet so there are 10,725 fighting crime then?

Sweet - 2 cops for every crim.
Clearly the problem therefore must be we need more prisons.....:corn:

[MSTRS]

Sweet so there are 10,725 fighting crime then?

Sweet - 2 cops for every crim.
Clearly the problem therefore must be we need more prisons.....:corn:

Or - we know who did it, but we're not doing anything about it.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/131128-STOLEN-again!-(and-re-recovered)-Honda-Spada-1988?p=1129911232#post1129911232

[Smifffy]

Or - we know who did it, but we're not doing anything about it.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/131128-STOLEN-again!-(and-re-recovered)-Honda-Spada-1988?p=1129911232#post1129911232

...and what is the bet that anybody that goes around there for a chat about the matter ends up getting charged?

[scumdog]

Sweet so there are 10,725 fighting crime then?

Sweet - 2 cops for every crim.
Clearly the problem therefore must be we need more prisons.....:corn:

Wow...over 10.000 cops in NZ!:blink: - who'd a thunk it!

[ajturbo]

Wow...over 10.000 cops in NZ!:blink: - who'd a thunk it!

you got time to post here....
your boss will be looking at his/her watch.... wondering why you only got 300 tickets issued today....:corn::innocent:

[Shadows]

I could fill that quota on the way to work each morning.

Most of them would either be for careless (because they can't ticket for "fucking retarded") driving, and for impeding traffic flow.

[Mully]

I could fill that quota on the way to work each morning.

Most of them would either be for careless (because they can't ticket for "fucking retarded") driving, and for impeding traffic flow.

Yep

Unsafe lane change
Failure to indicate
Failure to stop at red light
Misuse of transit lanes (motorway onramp ones)

Comfortably fill the quota daily.

[twinbruva]

There's a quota?

[Kickaha]

There's a quota?

nah, urban legend

[hellokitty]

Yep

Unsafe lane change
Failure to indicate
Failure to stop at red light
Misuse of transit lanes (motorway onramp ones)

Comfortably fill the quota daily.

How about "oh my god learn to f@*king merge"
That should be a finable offence - merging like a retard - or not merging at all - a la Auckland style "I know you are there and have the right of way but my car is bigger and I will pretend I can't see you"

[LBD]

And of course speeding is a crime....which we get fined for....so....can those who recieve the $ benifit from the fines I pay, be said to be "living of the proceeds of crime?"

[oldrider]

If you want to observe New Zealand driver behaviour at it's worst! (IMHO)

Try driving slowly but "safely" and being completely concious of other traffic rights and needs!

I sometimes drive 30km down the road and back as part of an activity I indulge in and I prefer to travel slowly, around 70 - 80kph, if I can!

Totally concious of my possible nuisance value to other traffic, I try to minimise my affect upon them by pulling over well in advance, signalling clearly etc etc!

Even when the road ahead is clear, many of them will pull right in behind you and sit there wasting passing time and then when they do pass, they stay so close in to your vehicle and cut right in close to the front, that you have to slow down or pull over further to avoid them!

Others will sit in behind you and wait until the clear road has been used up and then try to pass you on a yellow line, even though oncoming traffic can be seen ahead! :facepalm:

Sometimes I pull right off the road to allow them to pass safely and what do they do, they pull off in behind you FFS!

Don't simply dismiss this as a slow driver hugging the centre line and deliberately inconveniencing other road users, I hate them as much as anyone else!

It's just that if you are travelling slower than the speed limit and you try to avoid being a pain in the arse to other traffic, some of them act like complete bloody idiots that defies belief.

Actually in areas where slow traffic is likely to cause problems to other traffic I just speed up the limit so as not to be a frigging pain, then slow down again where the road straightens out and passing is easy.

I will probably be caned by some on here too for this but it "is" legal to travel at speeds below the limit without deliberately inconveniencing other traffic!