Lexus interested in joining V8 Supercar [Archive]

AllanB

17th November 2010, 21:57

Darn fine idea.

Probably won't happen!

I remember the races way back when little M3 beemers were winning! The Skylines killed it - they thrashed the living beep beep out over everything and even when loaded up with lead to make them heavier (stupid rules to slow them down) still whipped the Aussie V8's.

Then they changed the rules.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the Fords get replaced with something imported in a few years, some fuggly USA built thingy probably.

Laava

17th November 2010, 22:02

Holden v Hummer?

EJK

17th November 2010, 22:13

Darn fine idea.

Probably won't happen!

True. But dreams are free!

Gaaah, but by just thinking of some Dutch whooping Fords and Holdens bum bums is just too yippie-ki-yay. :sunny:

Motu

17th November 2010, 22:19

So,Toyota aren't interested?

ducatilover

17th November 2010, 22:29

So,Toyota aren't interested?

:facepalm: Oh...but, it's a Lexus V8 in that car.....
ummmm
Oh dear. Idiots. Toyota made it...:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

tigertim20

18th November 2010, 01:24

Not Necessarily. There's not a lot of Holden or Ford parts on those V8 supercars. They are performance part specials.

agreed. id like to see it become something where any manufacturer can enter a v8, rear wheel drive car that is available to the public for no more than xxxx dollars, that would make it interesting as it would be a bang for buck v8 race.
of course thered be certain restrictions as to how much of the car had to be as it left the factory (preferably a large percentage)

Its no fun watching an aftermarket filled folden shell hooning around a track, and its no fun watching a 300k car whip a 60k car either.

actually, ford and holden should make bikes and enter wsbk, thatd be great!!!

Kiwi Graham

18th November 2010, 05:05

schrodingers cat

18th November 2010, 06:35

A good deal of saloon racing world wide is going to a format where many of the componets are common or restricted.
As from next season New Zealand will be adopting the 'Car of Tomorrow'
Developed in conjuction with the constructor who is developing the Australian 'Car of the Future', Paul Ciprinac is building a chassis which will be identical from a to c pillar between the two countries.

The car shares a common floorpan (Commodore if anyone cares) and has an aftermarket 9" live rear axle with 3 link and control dampers
The engine will be a 6l LS7 Chev factory control race engine (600Hp +) coupled to a 6 speed sequential g/box. The ecu will be a locally made Link G4 and the data aquisition a control part also.
18" wheels and Perfromance Friction brakes. Bespoke front uprights with common geometry
Price for rolling chassis is mooted to be under $200k and since it is a tube frame chassis, experience with TraNZam teaches us that the chassis life span is 15 years plus.

The chassis is designed so that the panels can be attached to the core car to make it whatever you like. So obviously Ford and Holden here in New Zealand but I believe there are a couple of competitors planning to feild Toyota bodywork. There are no ethical objections here in NZ to other manufacturers since nither Ford nor Holden support any of the lacal racing. They do however ride on the back of the promotion and brand recognition

NZV8 are accessing the IP of the Aussie COTF development and are contributing the cost of the panel fitting development. The Aussies will adopt their car in 2013.

The new car will be simpler, faster and less maintainence intensive than the existing cars therefore a little more affordable to run. With control equipment optimising the 'cockpit spacer' and focussing on the detail will make for winners. The backmarkers can no longer throw accusations of cheating or buying wins to explain their dismal performance

This isn't rumour. This is happening now.

http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125352

Grumph

18th November 2010, 06:36

They're rev limited now - it's all about "parity" making a better show...

Stone Bros were reputed to have built a prototype for Mitsubishi a couple of years ago. Can't see any new companies coming in with the current climate.

marty

18th November 2010, 06:51

No different to Nascar then - Toyota races there, but their cars don't go much like the last Camry that I drove

Morcs

18th November 2010, 06:56

yup the Aussies will get owned.

The germans would get far better power out of the same engine capacity.

avgas

18th November 2010, 07:14

Sounds like vaporware to me.
Toyota tried this way back in 97.....and failed. Aussies wouldn't let them in.

Something along the lines of "how much steel the car must contain".......which is aussie politics at its best - seeing as this is there financial market..

As for the article saying the LFA will race.....not a chance. For a start is only has 2 doors......touring cars are 4 door....
Most likely be some kind of Camry/Windom thing.

Its worth noting that the Camry Nascar cars in US run V8's that don't exist in a production car......likewise the Scion drift cars.......

ckai

18th November 2010, 08:25

This WILL eventually happen. All the bodies involved (AV8SC, Holden, Ford etc) have all agreed that they have no choice but to let other manufactures enter. I believe it was Ford that got the ball rolling again earlier this year to start talks because it's bloody hard for only 2 players to bank roll a series.

It's a pretty successful series but only really for the promotor. By the sounds of it the Aussie public has accepted the fact that they need to bring in more players if they want the series to stay alive. You're always gonna piss off the few hard-cores but they restrict growth and development.

The restrictions they'd enforce would mean everyone is similar (as currently) and like the boss from the V8's said it would stupid for them to bring in new players and have it end like the Skyline era. I remember him saying "that wouldn't help anyone".

If I remember rightly I saw the article in the off season on the V8 website and it had links to other articles from other news agencies.

Banditbandit

18th November 2010, 08:35

Naaa .. the Jappers and the Europeans will not engage in the Aussie dogems tactics .. and get shunted off the track ...

But it's only in recent years the Aussie supercars have been exclusively Ford/Holden ..

Nissan Skylines have raced at Bathhurst before (and won) - A Jaguar won Bathhurst in 1985 ... a BMW in 1997 ... a Volvo in 1998 ... I think the first ever Bathhurst was won by a Vauxhall ... and a Mini Cooper in the mid-60s ...

A Volvo won the first Wellington Street Race ... (Brock and Holden won the next two ...)

Toaster

18th November 2010, 08:38

So,Toyota aren't interested?

Can't "recall............"

pzkpfw

18th November 2010, 09:31

I thought the Aussie V8 supercars were already using a common engine (i.e. the Fords and Holdens both run the same Chevy engine)??

-df-

18th November 2010, 10:34

As for the article saying the LFA will race.....not a chance. For a start is only has 2 doors......touring cars are 4 door....
Most likely be some kind of Camry/Windom thing.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/29810/2009-lexus-is-f-review-road-test/

They mention the IS-F a 4 door car, not the LFA (v10 super car)

Edbear

18th November 2010, 11:23

I thought the Aussie V8 supercars were already using a common engine (i.e. the Fords and Holdens both run the same Chevy engine)??

Doesn't appear so going by the rules...

http://www.v8supercars.com.au/Portals/v8/RadEditor/Documents/V8Supercars/Tech_Talk/Rules_Regulations/Operations_Manual/Update_1_2010/2010%20Div%20C_Update%201.pdf

http://www.v8supercars.com.au/Portals/v8/RadEditor/Documents/V8Supercars/Tech_Talk/Championship_Series/2010DivC_Update2.pdf

nodrog

18th November 2010, 11:43

I thought the Aussie V8 supercars were already using a common engine (i.e. the Fords and Holdens both run the same Chevy engine)??

They use common spec (not the same brand) engines and components, ie ford are still using their old push rod V8 and a live rear axle, as opposed to the quad overhead cam and independent rear axle they have in there current road cars.

Fanny.

avgas

18th November 2010, 11:58

http://www.caradvice.com.au/29810/2009-lexus-is-f-review-road-test/

They mention the IS-F a 4 door car, not the LFA (v10 super car)
Sweet - that'll do
Looks like the rules have changed recently too - only steel parts remaining that are required are the brakes.

On a side note check out this.
Fricken cool
http://v8racecar.wordpress.com/2010/01/09/frank-gardners-john-player-racing-corvair/

Swoop

18th November 2010, 14:30

...when the Fords get replaced with something imported in a few years, some fuggly USA built thingy probably.
Fords are fugging ugly NOW! We don't have to wait to see an ugly ford, just drive past a dealership.

rebel

18th November 2010, 19:29

I thought Ford & Holden rang push rod donks to comply with the 'rules' Even Ford dont run those ancient motors in their road cars anymore.
They would soon be religated to the back competing against high revving quad OHC motors in the Lexus and Merc.

Typical mythical speak from jappa/euro fan boy who only looks at on paper specs.

Adding onto myths, coincidental timing of the Skylines dominace, Group A racing was being phased out around the world, not because the V8s couldn't keep up, despite what jappa boys like to think.

Ever since the end of Group A, Toyota or Nissan has never had a look into the championship, the critera has always been a rwd V8 4dr sedan assemblied in Australia, which only leaves Commodore and Falcon.

neels

18th November 2010, 20:25

It's all bollocks anyway, just a tubular chassis in ford or holden clothes with a different but identical cast iron nascar block and the rest purpose built race parts.

The only interest really remaining is watching how the various teams/drivers are performing.

Bringing in another manufacturer will just mean the same car with another different badge on the front, the only difference will be how much they are willing to bankroll a particular team to take up their badge and buy a place at the front of the field.

Team Vodafone have demonstrated this, they were fast as fordish cars, they are fast as holdenish cars, they have a good team with plenty of money so they are fast regardless of the supposed make.

Edit:

Adding onto myths, coincidental timing of the Skylines dominace, Group A racing was being phased out around the world, not because the V8s couldn't keep up, despite what jappa boys like to think.
Yep, the FIA were doing away with it because it was drawing away sponsorship money while F1 and sportcars looked like withering and dying in the corner.

And before you bag the euro/jap thing, it was dick johnson that turned a sierra into a race car, and a scotsman in the form of tom walkinshaw made one particular model of commodore competitive

Laava

18th November 2010, 20:51

, the critera has always been a rwd V8 4dr sedan assemblied in Australia, which only leaves Commodore and Falcon.

Correct, it is a homologation thing. But still not the car you can buy and drive so the rules have been bent so far as to be useless. Aussie fans will want holden/ford racing, regardless,and that is where the money will always be, end of story. There could be an entire new series for high tech quad cam etc etc but it may never be as popular. Not that I care either way, but you try going up on the Mount on the Sunday and yelling "Go Lexus" as loud as you can. Been nice knowing you!

rebel

18th November 2010, 21:29

And before you bag the euro/jap thing, it was dick johnson that turned a sierra into a race car, and a scotsman in the form of tom walkinshaw made one particular model of commodore competitive

Hmm I'm pretty sure the HDT VKs (group C?) was more successful than the Walkinshaw VLs on the racing stage but I could be wrong. I'm not bagging the Euro/jappas, just get a bit pissed off when I hear the followers cry common myths. The E30 3 series is still the most successful touring car to date and one of my favourite small cars. Bring back the Grp A/C production based racing I reckon, I haven't watched a V8 supercar race since I was a school kid, 5 years ago, farking yawn fest these days, especially with bugger all Ford teams in it.

98tls

19th November 2010, 05:51

Correct, it is a homologation thing. But still not the car you can buy and drive so the rules have been bent so far as to be useless. Aussie fans will want holden/ford racing, regardless,and that is where the money will always be, end of story. There could be an entire new series for high tech quad cam etc etc but it may never be as popular. Not that I care either way, but you try going up on the Mount on the Sunday and yelling "Go Lexus" as loud as you can. Been nice knowing you!

I reckon it will be just with a different crowd ie the baseball cap backward wearing baggy panters.Personally i wish it would just stay as is but thats not going to happen sadly and ive no interest in watching the Jap/euro stuff.Note to self "make the most of next years Bathurst as it will probably be the last time i bother watching it".

98tls

19th November 2010, 05:54

Fords are fugging ugly NOW! We don't have to wait to see an ugly ford, just drive past a dealership.

Correct the new ones are fugly,possibly the only car fuglier would be the current Commodore:sick:

schrodingers cat

19th November 2010, 06:29

It's all bollocks anyway, just a tubular chassis in ford or holden clothes with a different but identical cast iron nascar block and the rest purpose built race parts.

The only interest really remaining is watching how the various teams/drivers are performing.

Bringing in another manufacturer will just mean the same car with another different badge on the front, the only difference will be how much they are willing to bankroll a particular team to take up their badge and buy a place at the front of the field.

Team Vodafone have demonstrated this, they were fast as fordish cars, they are fast as holdenish cars, they have a good team with plenty of money so they are fast regardless of the supposed make.

But isn't that the point of RACING. The tribal aspect is to do with MARKETTING (which drives revenues of course)

Marketting people have identifyed that binary tribal affiliations appeal to the great unwashed. Personally I think it a shame that the sport is dumbed down to red and blue. It is also why I find F1 endlessly fasinating - for the nauance.

Motor-racing is endlessly complex. Even when the variables are reduced human ingenuity strives for ways to improve performance. Think Drag Racing in its purest form.
To suppose success comes a badge is nothing but lazy thinking

Swoop

19th November 2010, 06:47

possibly the only car fuglier would be the current Commodore:sick:
Surely there are some good optometrists' in your town? Time for a visit perhaps?:rofl:

Laava

19th November 2010, 06:56

Both these models are disastrously ugly IMO. FAIL!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Holden_Commodore_Berlina_(1988-1989_VN_series)_01.jpg
http://carsguide.com.au/images/uploads/1998-Ford-AU-Falcon-Forte-7LR.jpg

Swoop

19th November 2010, 06:58

Both these models are disastrously ugly IMO. FAIL!
:yes:
Epic fail for both...

avgas

19th November 2010, 08:07

the critera has always been a rwd V8 4dr sedan assemblied in Australia, which only leaves Commodore and Falcon.
Errrr no - not exactly....
http://www.toyota.com.au/about/history

imdying

19th November 2010, 08:29

They're cars. Who cares if they're ugly, they're just a way to tow a trailer. As for V8 Supercars? Boring, slow, generic... a waste of time. Was offered a trip to Bathurst this year... turned it down, not worth my time (although it would probably be a lot more fun in the flesh admittedly).

ckai

19th November 2010, 17:06

98tls

19th November 2010, 18:46

Gees, I'd hate to see some of you guys' ideas of how to encourage progress. We may still be riding horses ;)

As for the current racing, some of the best it's ever been in my opinion. I hate dominance by a particular brand and I hate processions (F1 anyone). Tin-top racing is about rubbing, nudging and passing (BTCC), and bike racing is about passing, passing, and tail happy sliding :)

A few years back the V8's got boring. Now they're back into their rubbing and passing and no make is dominating.

I couldn't give a shit if they bring in 5 other makers and they're completely identical. Give me the spectacle that is tin-top racing and I'll watch it. I'm a true petrol head so if it's exciting racing with passing galore I don't care if it's motorised sewing machines, I'll watch it.

PS The current holdens and fords aren't ugly, just fucking boring. They have no identity. Just like most cars and bikes today.

See your point but personally have enjoyed the Ford/Holden thing for as long as i can remember and would prefer it not to change,and yes i wash:shit:For me anyway Bathurst is the best day of the year when it comes to 4 wheels,love it just the way it is though i did suffer the Volvo blah blah years,along the way theres been the personalities ie Dick Johnson etc.A few of us were talking this afternoon about making the effort to go to Bathurst next year as after that as i posted earlier i doubt we will bother turning on the box.

rebel

19th November 2010, 20:31

Errrr no - not exactly....
http://www.toyota.com.au/about/history

And? Toyota Au have never assemblied a rwd sedan, since the demise of Group A racing in the early 1990s anyway. If the criteria for V8 Supercars dropped the rwd V8 bit I'm sure Dimantes and Camrys would have been in there.

ckai

20th November 2010, 08:36

And? Toyota Au have never assemblied a rwd sedan, since the demise of Group A racing in the early 1990s anyway. If the criteria for V8 Supercars dropped the rwd V8 bit I'm sure Dimantes and Camrys would have been in there.

That's one thing I'm glad they won't be changing. Front-wheelers don't look right getting lose in the corners. It's just not right. The organizers know the fans can pretty much be swayed for anything thing else but RWD is a must.

scott411

20th November 2010, 09:18

Gees, I'd hate to see some of you guys' ideas of how to encourage progress. We may still be riding horses ;)

As for the current racing, some of the best it's ever been in my opinion. I hate dominance by a particular brand and I hate processions (F1 anyone). Tin-top racing is about rubbing, nudging and passing (BTCC), and bike racing is about passing, passing, and tail happy sliding :)

A few years back the V8's got boring. Now they're back into their rubbing and passing and no make is dominating.

I couldn't give a shit if they bring in 5 other makers and they're completely identical. Give me the spectacle that is tin-top racing and I'll watch it. I'm a true petrol head so if it's exciting racing with passing galore I don't care if it's motorised sewing machines, I'll watch it.

PS The current holdens and fords aren't ugly, just fucking boring. They have no identity. Just like most cars and bikes today.

i agree with this 100% the last race at surfers with Van Gis vs Wincupp was one of the most awesome races i have seen, it had it all, passes, missed braking points, rubbing the whole lot,

at the moment there is great Parity, and i think with the comman floor plan ala nascar coming it will be even better,

It comes down to watch you like racing, i like watching nascar and supercars because the racing is good, passing is regular and there are alot of different winners, F1 although it is an amazing technical sport is boring racing, its just what you are into

schrodingers cat

20th November 2010, 09:57

That's one thing I'm glad they won't be changing. Front-wheelers don't look right getting lose in the corners. It's just not right. The organizers know the fans can pretty much be swayed for anything thing else but RWD is a must.

With FWD the driver really only has one option when the car loses grip. With RWD they have two (options)

Driving happens from the feet and to watch a driver balancing the car and carrying speed is very exciting. Unfortunately too much aero masks this.

What makes motorcycling is exactly the same thing. Being able to see the pilot maximise mechanical grip.