A miner issue [Archive] - Page 2

Edbear

30th November 2010, 10:11

How wrong I was.

It's a huge tragedy that will live on and we can but feel deep empathy with the families and friends! One of the miners, an Aussie, was a "brother" of mine and was packing to return home at the end of the month - leaves a wife and two children.

The questions to be answered do seem to inlcude the pros and cons of underground mining of coal so hopefully we will learn something about the politics behind deciding which way to do it and whether open cast was the better option.

These days open cast mining is very structured and the company is obligated to restore the land as the mine progresses, so they can replant the bush as they go.

phill-k

30th November 2010, 10:20

Hmmm .. we probably have very different ideas of what we need to worry about ....

And give us another slice of it ? Hei aha tō whakaaro ? It was ours before y'all took it off us ...

Is that you hone hiding behind the avitar

kevfromcoro

30th November 2010, 13:10

Just read the news..
And thet tryed to seal it off with some foam stuff.
It caught fire....
Doesnt quite sound right......
Another day down the dunny.....

Banditbandit

30th November 2010, 13:39

I could be well wrong...but I'm pretty sure 'your' people weren't the first to occupy this fine land? If so...what did you pay the original 'owners', so that you can call it 'yours'?

Is that you hone hiding behind the avitar

Hey the threads about the miners/Mining and if you pick the right posts quite informative!

Start your own thread LOL!!!

Wott he said ... my first reaction as I followed through - then arrived at Reckless' response ... not for this thread ...

Crasherfromwayback

30th November 2010, 14:22

Wott he said ... my first reaction as I followed through - then arrived at Reckless' response ... not for this thread ...

And in respect to the lost miners...true, and fair enough. I see they say the fire down there may well be the coal seam it's self. Not good.

phill-k

30th November 2010, 14:22

Wott he said ... my first reaction as I followed through - then arrived at Reckless' response ... not for this thread ...

Well said, why front up to the tough questions when you can hide behind the race card - sorry I meant the miners card

Reckless

30th November 2010, 16:28

I still can't quite understand the 800L per second of methane thing? Does a coal seam produce that much methane to be pumped out?

And if it does why haven't we found a use for it, shit park a power station over the hole!!

Secondly if you have a fire and block all the oxygen to it, by blocking the shafts shouldn't it go out? If its self perpetuating shit that's ferkin awesome nature can do that.

Probably showing total ignorance here but maybe one of the miner guys here can wise us up a bit?

RiderInBlack

30th November 2010, 16:40

Secondly if you have a fire and block all the oxygen to it, by blocking the shafts shouldn't it go out?Sort of. The "fire" will go out but the coat stays like hot embers in "Hot Spots" in bush fires. as soon as ya let the Oxygen in, of it goes again. Coal forms "Coke", which Insulates the embers, keeping them hot for years.

marty

30th November 2010, 16:52

Secondly if you have a fire and block all the oxygen to it, by blocking the shafts shouldn't it go out? If its self perpetuating shit that's ferkin awesome nature can do that.

pretty much impossible to remove all the O2. A class 1 fire (like magnesium) will burn when fully submerged - it literally rips the oxygen out of the water. A fully established coal seam fire (although it's not a class 1 fire) will be pulling oxygen out of everything near it - dirt, rock etc. a HUGE amount of water will eventually cool it enough to stop the reaction, but there's not enough water nearby that they could get to this fire. they are literally trying to cool the centre of the earth.

RiderInBlack

30th November 2010, 16:53

By the way, don't try to put out a large Coal fire with water. You will get "Producer Gases" (see "Coal Gas"). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_gas)These include hydrogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen), carbon monoxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide), and methane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane). They used to blow water though hot coals in the "Industrial Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution)" to make "Producer Gases" to power the cities before Electricity got going.

marty

30th November 2010, 16:56

so pretty much all the elements that make up the atmosphere, ripped apart by a huge energy source?

RiderInBlack

30th November 2010, 17:01

so pretty much all the elements that make up the atmosphere, ripped apart by a huge energy source? Aye, coal gets that hot. Might be insensitive, but if they want to make money, maybe they could stop trying to put the fire out, and use the heat to power steam driven power generators.

marty

30th November 2010, 17:49

where's the rhetorical question smiley?

JimO

30th November 2010, 17:59

they need to pour a few greenies down the vent shaft

RiderInBlack

30th November 2010, 18:59

they need to pour a few greenies down the vent shaftI often wonder what might happen when we don't have anyone else to blame:blank:

JimO

30th November 2010, 19:39

I often wonder what might happen when we don't have anyone else to blame:blank:

no worries, there is muslims, maori, aussies, etc be fucken years befor we run out of scapegoats

Woodman

30th November 2010, 21:59

Yes blame the greenies , its their fault. Fcuk the blame culture in this country is getting outa control.

Katman

30th November 2010, 22:04

Yes blame the greenies , its their fault. Fcuk the blame culture in this country is getting outa control.

Hey, this is Kiwibiker - we've had a lot of practice.

JimO

30th November 2010, 22:10

Yes blame the greenies , its their fault. Fcuk the blame culture in this country is getting outa control.

you started it

imdying

1st December 2010, 08:27

oldrider

1st December 2010, 21:58

I'm glad we have the greenies to keep a lid on what could otherwise be a pretty destructive industry. We don't need coal bad enough that we need to dig big fuck off holes in such a lovely area. Not when we have people who'll risk their lives underground daily for a few bucks.

Well there are 29 less to do that kind of work now, (RIP miners) if it was open cast at least they would have had a better chance, even though the gas problem would probably have still been there!

They dug the tunnel because the greenies wouldn't let them dig a hole, simple as that and haven't they been quiet while this tragedy has been playing out!

The coal is a special high quality industrial "coking coal" used in industry, not simply for heating!

We sell it over seas and exchange is available for other goods like petrol, oil and tyres for our motorbikes!

A little bit of Green goes a long long way, too far in this country IMHO! :yes:

scissorhands

1st December 2010, 22:41

Hopefully then, some sort of compromise will happen either way, and open cast mining will not be so unnattractive to the public. Personally its a nice change from bush for me.

I grew up playing in disused quarries (Mount Wellington)as a kid all the fricken time, loved it. Couldnt wait to forget school and home life down the quarry with my mates. Ponds with ducks and eels, roads for our shitty bikes then motorbikes and cars when we were 14. Cool. Even took home a pet kid goat from the quarry to my parents horror.

PrincessBandit

2nd December 2010, 06:09

national 2 minutes silence today at start of the service. I will be attempting to observe this with my class this afternoon.

oldrider

2nd December 2010, 09:42

Probably the best bit of news seen in the media! :yes:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2010/11/28/3078757.htm?site=gippsland

RiderInBlack

2nd December 2010, 10:20

Probably the best bit of news seen in the media! :yes:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2010/11/28/3078757.htm?site=gippsland
Today is about paying respect those that lost their lives in the Pike River Mine Tragedy & out of respect for them I'm ask you all to keep it to that at least for today.

oldrider

2nd December 2010, 11:01

Today is about paying respect those that lost their lives in the Pike River Mine Tragedy & out of respect for them I'm ask you all to keep it to that at least for today.

The best respect that you can pay them is to see that it doesn't happen again and think clearly about why it did!

So many men, so many opinions, you have yours, I have mine!

Skyryder

2nd December 2010, 21:41

[QUOTE=oldrider;1129922330]Well there are 29 less to do that kind of work now, (RIP miners) if it was open cast at least they would have had a better chance, even though the gas problem would probably have still been there!

They dug the tunnel because the greenies wouldn't let them dig a hole, simple as that and haven't they been quiet while this tragedy has been playing out!

Open cast mining 'never an option'

Pike River Coal chief executive Peter Whittall says open-casting mining at the site was never feasible because of the depth of the coal seam and the terrain.
It has been suggested that if Pike River had been an open-cast mine, the lives of miners would not have been at risk.
Mr Whittall says the seams are between 110 and 700 metres below the surface, because the size of the mountains above the seam changes.
Even if the mine was not under conservation land, he says, engineering issues would rule out an open-cast operation.

From
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/pike-river-2010/62883/families-shown-video-of-flames-coming-from-mine

Just putting the record straight OR

Skyryder

oldrider

2nd December 2010, 22:41

Just putting the record straight OR

Skyryder[/QUOTE]

Welcome back Skyryder, good to hear you are back in the saddle, so to speak!

Don't come on here ruining my attack on the conservation and greenie movement though, they stifle too much industry and advancement in this flea bitten country that your Helen Clark wrecked for ever!

John Key is following her instructions on how to completely ruin the country and stuff up my motorcycle riding with their outrageous bullshit ACC charges too!

It has been quiet in your absence, we must get together again soon. :ride: :drinknsin

RiderInBlack

3rd December 2010, 06:26

The best respect that you can pay them is to see that it doesn't happen again and think clearly about why it did!

So many men, so many opinions, you have yours, I have mine!It seems some are at least doing that:

Open cast mining 'never an option'

Pike River Coal chief executive Peter Whittall says open-casting mining at the site was never feasible because of the depth of the coal seam and the terrain.
It has been suggested that if Pike River had been an open-cast mine, the lives of miners would not have been at risk.
Mr Whittall says the seams are between 110 and 700 metres below the surface, because the size of the mountains above the seam changes.
Even if the mine was not under conservation land, he says, engineering issues would rule out an open-cast operation.

From
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/pike-river-2010/62883/families-shown-video-of-flames-coming-from-mine

Just putting the record straight OR

Skyryder
Maybe next time you should too. More people should look to themselves before blaming others that had little or no involvement in what has befallen them.

Skyryder

3rd December 2010, 08:33

Just putting the record straight OR

Skyryder

Welcome back Skyryder, good to hear you are back in the saddle, so to speak!

Don't come on here ruining my attack on the conservation and greenie movement though, they stifle too much industry and advancement in this flea bitten country that your Helen Clark wrecked for ever!

John Key is following her instructions on how to completely ruin the country and stuff up my motorcycle riding with their outrageous bullshit ACC charges too!

It has been quiet in your absence, we must get together again soon. :ride: :drinknsin[/QUOTE]

I agree that Key and co are ruining the country although they seem to be doing this without any help from Clarke.

I don't have a lot of truck with the Greens but their opposition to much of the environmental destruction for short term economic gains i can support.

Skyryder

RiderInBlack

3rd December 2010, 11:01

I don't have a lot of truck with the Greens but their opposition to much of the environmental destruction for short term economic gains i can support.

SkyryderAye, Exactly.

oldrider

3rd December 2010, 11:27

I don't have a lot of truck with the Greens but their opposition to much of the environmental destruction for short term economic gains i can support.

Aye, Exactly.

I don't have much truck with Greens and Conservationists either because they attract such a high percentage of the lunatic Luddite lefty brigade!

I do however, agree that there has to be some form of resistance to everything!

Life is about "living" and if there were no "today" there would certainly be no "tomorrow"!

Getting the balance is the hard part and the lunatic left are just as bad as the lunatic right, they just look and sound different to each other! :facepalm:

I like the world the way I want it of course, nothing selfish about that! .... is there? :rolleyes:

RiderInBlack

3rd December 2010, 12:09

Getting the balance is the hard part and the lunatic left are just as bad as the lunatic right, they just look and sound different to each other! :facepalm:

I like the world the way I want it of course, nothing selfish about that! .... is there? :rolleyes:Balance is the key to many things in life. That's why I have this in my Sig's:
:cool:"Whole life balance, Daniel-San" ("Karate Kid")
With trying to blame the Greens for the Pike River Tragedy, you were not showing any balance.
I don't mind you having the World the way ya want it, as long as it will still support life for long after you are gone and future Generations get to enjoy the beauty around you that you take for granted today. As a Species, We need to grow-up. It's a long way to the next habitable Planet, and we can't even get Astronauts to Mars yet.

oldrider

3rd December 2010, 12:51

Balance is the key to many things in life. That's why I have this in my Sig's:
:cool:"Whole life balance, Daniel-San" ("Karate Kid")
With trying to blame the Greens for the Pike River Tragedy, you were not showing any balance.
I don't mind you having the World the way ya want it, as long as it will still support life for long after you are gone and future Generations get to enjoy the beauty around you that you take for granted today. As a Species, We need to grow-up. It's a long way to the next habitable Planet, and we can't even get Astronauts to Mars yet.

While I live for today, I also have a heavy personal investment in the future, three children and four grandchildren!

You can rest assured "I" never take "anything" in life for granted!

As far as I am concerned the conservationists and the Greens do have primary responsibility for the reason alternative means of reaching the Pike River Coal was even attempted the way that it was, the rest lays directly with the Pike River Company, that can not be delegated or passed on to anybody else!

All will be revealed eventually! Wax on wax off, Daniel - San!

Winston001

5th December 2010, 20:10

As far as I am concerned the conservationists and the Greens do have primary responsibility for the reason alternative means of reaching the Pike River Coal was even attempted the way that it was, the rest lays directly with the Pike River Company, that can not be delegated or passed on to anybody else!

John - Peter Whittle himself has said the Pike River mine could never have been open-cast. The coal is too deep. The fact it was developed as an underground mine has little or nothing to do with conservationists or greenies.

Its worth knowing 29 miners also died in a Virginia mine in April 2010. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/us/07westvirginia.html Mining is still dangerous even with our advanced technology.

oldrider

5th December 2010, 21:42

John - Peter Whittle himself has said the Pike River mine could never have been open-cast. The coal is too deep. The fact it was developed as an underground mine has little or nothing to do with conservationists or greenies.

Its worth knowing 29 miners also died in a Virginia mine in April 2010. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/us/07westvirginia.html Mining is still dangerous even with our advanced technology.

Try to raise your mind beyond Peter Whittle and open cast, there is more than one way to skin a cat but any access was denied without question by the attitude of the Green and conservationist movements of this country FFS, they are inflexible because they are convinced that they hold the high moral ground! (like LYCRA clad cyclists)

Look at what happened when the government suggested we (NZ) reconsider the wealth that lays within our National parks etc! (Frigging mass hysteria)

98tls

5th December 2010, 21:46

Try to raise your mind beyond Peter Whittle and open cast, there is more than one way to skin a cat but any access was denied without question by the attitude of the Green and conservationist movements of this country FFS, they are inflexible because they are convinced that they hold the high moral ground! (like LYCRA clad cyclists)

Look at what happened when the government suggested we (NZ) reconsider the wealth that lays within our National parks etc! (Frigging mass hysteria)

Dont worry John we will here much of them soon when they oppose the mining consent on the Denniston Plateau.

cold comfort

7th December 2010, 09:44

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/us/07westvirginia.html[/url] Mining is still dangerous even with our advanced technology.

Dangerous for sure-quoting from "Superfreakonomics" which I'm reading presently. apparently more than 100,000 coal miners died in the last century with est 200,000 extra from "black lung' disease. Average of 36/yr now in the US, and 3,000 EACH year in China! They certainly cop the externality of our collective energy use despite the pay.

Banditbandit

7th December 2010, 10:41

Try to raise your mind beyond Peter Whittle and open cast, there is more than one way to skin a cat but any access was denied without question by the attitude of the Green and conservationist movements of this country FFS, they are inflexible because they are convinced that they hold the high moral ground! (like LYCRA clad cyclists)

Look at what happened when the government suggested we (NZ) reconsider the wealth that lays within our National parks etc! (Frigging mass hysteria)

At the risk of getting hammered ..

Have you ever considered that you might be in the minority opinionin this country? And that democracy allows the conservationists the upper hand because they are the majority?

I'm not talking about Greens or their actual supporters - but the number of New Zealanders who do not want to see the bush destroyed by mining ?

oldrider

7th December 2010, 19:03

At the risk of getting hammered ..

Have you ever considered that you might be in the minority opinionin this country? And that democracy allows the conservationists the upper hand because they are the majority?

I'm not talking about Greens or their actual supporters - but the number of New Zealanders who do not want to see the bush destroyed by mining ?

Why should you expect to be hammered?

We all have our own reasoning and opinions, yes, I am aware and have considered the points you make above!

I just see a different point of balance between the now and the future, if that means I am in the minority, so be it, it doesn't mean I am wrong!

Seems to work OK for Hone Harawira, sure doesn't phase me! :whistle:

98tls

7th December 2010, 19:13

At the risk of getting hammered ..

Have you ever considered that you might be in the minority opinionin this country? And that democracy allows the conservationists the upper hand because they are the majority?

I'm not talking about Greens or their actual supporters - but the number of New Zealanders who do not want to see the bush destroyed by mining ?

Whats majority got to do with anything in this country especially when it comes to anything involving hands:facepalm:Minorities and democracy seems to equate to handouts of some nature,democracy my arse.:bye:give me a break.

doc

14th January 2011, 06:52

Case closed.

White trash

28th April 2011, 19:13

.....being told to stand back until it's guarunteed tha it's safe.......

Sometimes, risks need to be taken. I think this is one of those times. I can not bear to imagine the rescue team finally getting the go ahead on Thursday, only to find 29 dehydrated bodies huddled around a ruptured ventilation pipe that's been blowing in clean air for them to breath, two days too late.

Not saying everyone on site or making the decisions doesn't have the very best of intentions, I'm simply wondering if they're not being overly cautious.

If it was my son down there, I'd be the very first picking up the equipment required and moving. Anyone standing in my path would cop a Glock. I can't believe the restraint shown by the families thus far. They're far more reasonable than I.

Hmmmmmmmmmm...............

98tls

28th April 2011, 19:44

Ive a copy of a book (amongst others) titled "unspent energy" The history of Dobson and Wallsend Collieries 1876-1968,many first hand accounts in there of what happened then and what should have happened at Pike River.Havent learnt much really have we.Bloody tragic and no doubt the more they delve the more tragic it will be.

mashman

28th April 2011, 19:51

"Police have confirmed fuzzy images taken from a borehole in February are likely to be of a fully clothed person lying face down in the mine, but say further analysis of the video is required.

Family spokesman Bernie Monk says the families were told of the news last night. He says there's also some evidence that one of the rescue boxes in the mine had been opened between the first and second explosions. (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/9272100/collins-reassures-pike-families-everything-being-done/)"

To a certain extent i hope the above isn't the case.

JimO

28th April 2011, 20:03

the box could have been opened before the blast or by it

98tls

28th April 2011, 20:11

the box could have been opened before the blast or by it

Course it could but nothing changes the fact that 2 came out alive.

JimO

28th April 2011, 20:16

yea but they were at the open end of the mine not down the buisness end

98tls

28th April 2011, 20:31

yea but they were at the open end of the mine not down the buisness end

Agreed but so what?At the end of the day despite the fact there were blokes willing to go in there nothing was done,would they have died trying,would they have found survivors blah blah blah i dunno we never will but of one thing i am sure and that is that doing nothing acheives nothing eh.No doubt the family members of those that died and mines rescue blokes have more in common than the loss of those miners and that would be the sour taste of doing nothing.

pete376403

28th April 2011, 21:20

I believe the old wisdom, probably gathered from years of mine explosions and rescue attempts, was that the safest time (it there is such a thing) to stage a rescue and go into a mine was right after an explosion, as at that time most of the gases would have been burnt off. I think the fact that is took quite a few days before the second explosion may well show that this was true.

trustme

28th April 2011, 21:50

Stayed at Blackball late Jan. One of the drilling crew let it drop that they had dilled a hole quite close to the face, there did not appear to be significant heat damage in the area. Was that good or bad ? who knows. He clammed up pretty quick when he twigged I was not a local.
Quite possible there are bodies that can be recovered. Could they have been rescued if people had gone straight in ? Who knows.
I doubt whether there were sufficient resources available to allow a proper rescue attempt within the limited window of opportunity after the initial blast.

For interests sake just how long was that window of opportunity & what was available in terms of men & equipment to do anything in that time period.??

Maki

28th April 2011, 22:10

oneofsix

28th April 2011, 22:22

If the miners survived the initial blast, then what was stopping them from walking out?

If the initial blast was unsurvivable, as some "experts" now seem to be saying, then why even consider a rescue?

Was the rescue (rescue teams, foreign experts, robots, etc. etc.) a scam? If the first blast was not survivable it was a total waste of time and money and all it did was prolong the agony of those who had loved ones in the mine.

Those who had loved ones in the mine were shown a video of the initial blast at a much later date. Why was this kept secret from them? To make them suffer for longer?

If the dangerous gasses were burned away in the initial blast, then what was stopping a rescue team from going in immediately?

injuries, stunned, unconscious

They didn't know if the initial blast was survivable or not so they had to try. Also if they want workers to go down mines they have to show them that they will at least give rescue a good try. Like most of the debates on KB the experts are drips under pressure making guesses, in this case I would surmise guesses in hindsight to make people feel better.

Was it kept secret? and was it much later? I remember they were shown the video whilst the rescue attempt was ongoing and as soon as they had retrieved it.

After the initial explosion no body knew what had happened until the first two made it out and phoned for help. By the time they got to the mine it was too late, the window of opportunity was closed.

slowpoke

29th April 2011, 12:30

Like most of the debates on KB the experts are drips under pressure making guesses, in this case I would surmise guesses in hindsight to make people feel better.

After the initial explosion no body knew what had happened until the first two made it out and phoned for help. By the time they got to the mine it was too late, the window of opportunity was closed.

Nice one: belittling highly educated, experienced and resourceful people from the safety of your Monday Morning Quarterback position. You've got no idea of the situation or what the hell you're talking about and denigrate people with years of experience and training.....thanks for your input, it's soooooo helpful.

People keep making the assumption there was a "window of opportunity", which is just a nonsense. Sure, immediately after the blast the combustible atmosphere may have been at it's lowest levels....but a toxic atmosphere was the result, and just because it was "safer" doesn't make it "safe", just as riding "slower" could be a helluva long way from going "slow".

For all those who think a rushed attempt should have been made to extract the trapped minors here are some things/questions to ponder:

1. You won't have a vehicle suitable/safe for use in the definitely combustible atmosphere
2. You have to allow for physically carrying/stretchering 29 men.
3. You need breathing apparatus for the rescuers and the miners, which also has to be physically carried/carted, along with enough medical supplies to treat significant injuries.
4. From my own experience with B/A you'd be very lucky to make it to the miners before you were into the red, even if you weren't carrying/carting anything, so you'd have to set up staging posts with more air supplies.
5. Any physical exertion or difficult environment (heat, difficult terrain, stress etc) dramatically shortens your air useage and available time under B/A. And the more air (cylinders) you carry, the faster you use it so it's the law of diminishing returns.
6. If your mythical "window of opportunity" really exists it will be closing within minutes not hours.

So you're talking about a massive logistical operation with a huge number of stretcher bearers, medics and support crews you are putting at risk. Do you really risk 60-80 more people to attempt a dangerous rescue of the original 29?

And putting it together within minutes?

You're dreamin'.

Jantar

29th April 2011, 13:18

.....
And putting it together within minutes?

.....

This is the point that many people just don't understand.

Yes, there was a window of opportunity imediately after the first explosion, and we now know that window may have been a couple of days. However, in an underground gas explosion it is normally accepted that the first 2 - 3 hours is the only safe period without onsite monitoring. Pike river did not have a rescue crew at the mine site 24/7 just in case a rescue was needed, instead it relied on the larger mining community getting together and forming a rescue team as and when required. This took longer than the window of opportunity lasted for.

Did any of the miners further in survive the initial blast? Because of the layout of the mine it is highly likely that many did. However continued survival would depend on them getting to and using the emergency gear available. Fewer would have been able to do that without assistance.

How many, died in the intial exlosion? How many suffocated in the toxic fumes? How many made it to one or more of the emergency shelters? These are questions we may never have the answer to.

oneofsix

29th April 2011, 13:26

Nice one: belittling highly educated, experienced and resourceful people from the safety of your Monday Morning Quarterback position. You've got no idea of the situation or what the hell you're talking about and denigrate people with years of experience and training.....thanks for your input, it's soooooo helpful.

.

just to clarify a point for you slowpoke, it wasn't the experts that gave their opinions at the time I was belittling, rather the so called experts that pop out of the woodwork months later to offer their hindsight. Those on site at the time did the correct thing according to what they knew at the time and it appears their action were correct according to what is now known.

Smokin

29th April 2011, 14:03

Mines rescue were using Rebreathers, Not B/A.

avgas

29th April 2011, 14:27

heh this thread went no where fast.

I am just happy I have my dad still. He will never work under that management again........

slowpoke

29th April 2011, 15:36

Mines rescue were using Rebreathers, Not B/A.

You are still talking about equipping 60+ people to enter an extremely hazardous environment within minutes of the explosion, and I doubt they'd have more than a dozen rescue rebreather sets (not the pissy lil' personal safety units everyone carry's that have extremely limited duration) on site during normal operations. So you're back to common or garden variety B/A. Even then, getting enough sets (50? if you ignore the miners) and enough cylinders on site within say 90min would be a huge challenge.

The sheer size of the rescue operation required, and the time crunch they were in, means it would have been pretty much impossible to pull it together within the time frame required....if a "safe-ish" period even existed.

There are classic similarities to the council workers who go down a culvert and become overwhelmed by fumes, then their mate rushes in to help them and by the time emergency services arrive they have two victims to rescue. 29 poor blokes dead is bad enough, but it could easily have been twice or three times that amount with a rushed rescue attempt.

Winston001

29th April 2011, 16:00

slowpoke

29th April 2011, 19:14

Uh...I read Oneofsix as being in total agreement with you. Bling to both.

D'OH! Sharp as a bowlin' ball, me.........:facepalm: Sorry fella!

oneofsix

29th April 2011, 19:18

D'OH! Sharp as a bowlin' ball, me.........:facepalm: Sorry fella!

apology accepted.

Oblivion

29th April 2011, 19:19

oneofsix

29th April 2011, 19:30

You know..... There hasn't been an explosion, or anything of the sorts in the mine for a few months now. And we haven't heard anything about a rescue at all. Surely if the mine was safe to enter, it would be now and we could equip a dozen men with necessary supplies, and send them in there within the next few days?

Reports today say it is still not safe to enter. No explosion could mean totally toxic atmosphere, could also mean that it is just lacking a spark to set it off.
At the moment they aren't certain it is a body they can see, just that it appears to be one. The cabinet reportedly open could have been opened by one of the blasts. personally I would have thought the miners would be trained to open the survival cabinet and get the rebreathers on before opening the firefighting cabinet and it is reportedly a firefighting cabinet that is open.
I don't think there is a major rush as long as they do have recovery planned and its done safely.
It is tempting to believe that a team in the correct gear could do it but it is a long walk and then the time to gather and or assess the bodies and get them out, all without setting off an explosion. Very hard.

Oblivion

29th April 2011, 19:34

Reports today say it is still not safe to enter. No explosion could mean totally toxic atmosphere, could also mean that it is just lacking a spark to set it off.
At the moment they aren't certain it is a body they can see, just that it appears to be one. The cabinet reportedly open could have been opened by one of the blasts. personally I would have thought the miners would be trained to open the survival cabinet and get the rebreathers on before opening the firefighting cabinet and it is reportedly a firefighting cabinet that is open.
I don't think there is a major rush as long as they do have recovery planned and its done safely.
It is tempting to believe that a team in the correct gear could do it but it is a long walk and then the time to gather and or assess the bodies and get them out, all without setting off an explosion. Very hard.

Ok then. How about using geography to pinpoint the location of where this "item of interest" was found. Then drill a wide bore hole, to get men down there and check. All it would take is someone willing to take at least 5 minutes of mine exposure, to identify, and maybe extract whatever this thing is. If it was a body, then maybe a family could be put at ease for once.