Juniors & the South Island Nationals

[SWERVE]

As in previous years all three Sth island rounds will have Streetstock/Superlite as a support class. Competing for the "McCleary Cup"
Which of you Nth Island junior racers are making the trip! Let me know if you are coming and if any of you need transport or a bed for the night and i will see what we can sort out for ya all down here.
All the junior racers and crew down here are more than willing to help out to make the trip possible for you guys from "up north" so start planning and dont be afraid to ask if you need anything.
Quite a few of last years top riders in this class have moved to different classes this season so expect to see some new names on the winners list. Last year proved that the 250 ninja and 250 hyosung are worthy opponants to the RG,s and KR,s..... so would be good to see the same mix again this year.:woohoo:

[Billy]

As in previous years all three Sth island rounds will have Streetstock/Superlite as a support class. Competing for the "McCleary Cup"
Which of you Nth Island junior racers are making the trip! Let me know if you are coming and if any of you need transport or a bed for the night and i will see what we can sort out for ya all down here.
All the junior racers and crew down here are more than willing to help out to make the trip possible for you guys from "up north" so start planning and dont be afraid to ask if you need anything.
Quite a few of last years top riders in this class have moved to different classes this season so expect to see some new names on the winners list. Last year proved that the 250 ninja and 250 hyosung are worthy opponants to the RG,s and KR,s..... so would be good to see the same mix again this year.:woohoo:

Good on you Merv,It never fails too amaze me the never ending energy you guys put into Junior streetstock down there.If I could get half of that enthusiasm happening up here it would certainly make life easier.

Ive been chasing up a few and have attracted only 2 at this stage,Have room for 5 bikes so heres hoping.

It might be worth mentioning at this stage also,The 250 Prolite class will be running as a National Championship class this season (assuming theres 6 on the grid for round 1 AND THERE WILL BE),I still have 3 for lease for this series,Have made them extra affordable for the South Island rounds and will include transport to all the tracks.Antbody interested can contact me through the normal channels and extra information is on both the MNZ website or NZSBK

[SWERVE]

When was this 250 Prolight as a national class decided................. as a comittee member of MCC i can say that we are (or were at last comm meeting) unaware of a decision on this.
Some more info would be appreciated Billy.
Glad to see that you are trying to rally the troops already. When we came up for winter rounds there was some good young talant in the junior class........ would be good to see them around the country not just confined to Manfield etc.
Guess it all boils down to costings .......... however if they are serious the level of comp during the national rounds would make it an invaluable exercise.
A bit of planning and organisation can make it a viable trip.

[Kickaha]

It might be worth mentioning at this stage also,The 250 Prolite class will be running as a National Championship class this season

What kind of numbers do they put on the grid compared to 150SS?

[Billy]

What kind of numbers do they put on the grid compared to 150SS?

Bugger all at the moment,But the plan is to get them out there and promote the class,Im bringing 5 south with me and have riders who will ride them at round 1

[Billy]

When was this 250 Prolight as a national class decided................. as a comittee member of MCC i can say that we are (or were at last comm meeting) unaware of a decision on this.
Some more info would be appreciated Billy.

Not sure,But the rules and a brief write up are on NZSBK and while not wanting to be clever,If you go to the entry form for all 3 south Island national rounds its listed as a class on the entry forms,I had a lengthy conversation with Peter Jones last week and got the impression there was some missinformation happening,Something Id rather keep out of,Best to contact Peter Ramage or Jim Tuckerman for clarification.

Cheers Billy

As a footnote the Pro lite 250 class was listed as a national championship last year but 6 did not front up on the grid

[Kickaha]

If you go to the entry form for all 3 south Island national rounds its listed as a class on the entry forms

I don't see them on the MNZ site

Why introduce prolight when SS150 already has good numbers and will put more on the grid?

[Billy]

I don't see them on the MNZ site


No,Theyre not on the mnz site for some reason,Try NZSBK

Why introduce prolight when SS150 already has good numbers and will put more on the grid?

As I understand it,The Pro lite class was introduced due to the ageing fleet of RGs/KRs etc becoming harder and harder too procure genuine parts for and with no new models being released the class has reached a stage where it could no longer evolve.

I think also MNZ wanted too take the whole streetstock class a bit further and run it as a National championship class to act as a feeder to their Pro twins class,Some thing that would never be an option with 150 streetstock as the whole rule structure
for that class is little more than a dogs breakfast with no homoligation necessary.

On that basis as I understand it,MNZ have decided to run the Prolite 250 class as a National championship but too allow the 150s in the same race with no points.

Please remember to NOT shoot the messenger and if your not happy with this decision contact the following people,Peter Ramage roadrace commission chairperson or Jim tuckerman MNZ president

[Kickaha]

or Jim Tuckerman MNZ president

Going by past experience I would rather bash my head against a concrete wall it would be a lot less painful and probably have a better result

[ellipsis]

.....change is inevitable...always a bit of pain involved...hopefully not too much...we do have a lot of S/S down here tho....whats the streetstock riders perspective on the mooted changes....

[Billy]

.....change is inevitable...always a bit of pain involved...hopefully not too much...we do have a lot of S/S down here tho....whats the streetstock riders perspective on the mooted changes....

Absolutely agree although Im not sure change is the right word,Evolve would be more appropriate,I didnt think it was the right move myself at first,But in hindsight if theyre going to start a new class then it should be supported on its merits and I dont see how it will affect SS150 riders if theyre scored seperately,SS150 will never be a NZ championship class and Prolite will,Simple really!!

[Billy]

Going by past experience I would rather bash my head against a concrete wall it would be a lot less painful and probably have a better result

LOL,Your possibly not the first person to say that,Thats why I gave 2 options

[fuknKIWI]

.....change is inevitable...
Change is the only constant:facepalm:

[SWERVE]

I pressume that by "prolight" you are meaning the new model ninja 250/hoysung 250 that are currently being raced by the likes of woodyracer and your riders Billy. If so then we had 2 at last years nationals racing in streetstock ridden by Seth Deveraux and Jarod Pyke (kwakas) both of whom were always in the top 5. Seth finished 3rd overall.
I was under the impression that these were the "superlite" machines and the "prolights" are the older 250s that many race at VMCC such as Dan Plaisted. These obviously are not within a national class....i pressume.

We had heard a rumour that MNZ were too only score points for the new 250s but allow the streetstock bikes to race along side them. As Streetstock has been one of the biggest grids at Sth Is Nats for a few years now that is the reason to continue to run the "McCleary Cup" within the 3 rounds down sth.
All bikes both 150 & 250 will score points for this cup and it will be awarded at the final Sth Is round at ruapuna.
As for the National Prolite (or superlite) class it will eventually take over as the junior/entry level class if enough people get behind it early enough........ otherwise MNZ will see it as a waste of time and "can it" beforeit even gets of the ground.
If they had seen sense and given streetstock national rating 3/4 years ago the combined class would now be heaving with a mix of bikes and a bucket load of talent. Then progression from the RG/KR to the Ninja etc would have been natural over time.
The Sth Is rounds will have big grids....... and we welcome all nth is riders whatever machine they ride.................... however dont expect to see many(if any make the trip north) to act as bridesmaids to a handfull of 250s.
I personally hope the junior/entry level class (whatever they call it) doesnt die a death in regards to having national status........... cant see 50+ youngsters and parants in the Sth Is rushing into the shops to buy a 250 to replace the RG just yet though.

[Kickaha]

If they had seen sense and given streetstock national rating 3/4 years ago the combined class would now be heaving with a mix of bikes and a bucket load of talent.

It'd really make you wonder how a class with so few bikes can be turned into a National Championship class but one that puts numbers on the grid like SS150 couldn't

[SWERVE]

Hey Kickaha................. you and me both know how such decisions are made at HQ.
and what reasons they are based on...................... enough said eh

[wayne]

rule says 6 entries, not bikes

[Billy]

rule says 6 entries, not bikes

Yip,Thats how I read it too,But was told in no uncertain terms 6 on the grid at round 1,Ive got 5 plus woodyracer makes 6.

Sadly 150ss will never be an MNZ championship class as stated previously,The rules are a complete dogs breakfast with no homologation needed,No homologation means MNZ have no manufacturers specs to use for comparison,The bikes are old and hard to get genuine parts for and many of them are already modified beyond reproach.

[rachprice]

Im one of those 5...yay!

Not that Ill be much competition but it will be amazing fun.....hopefully Im not all slow after my broken bits :)

[Kickaha]

Sadly 150ss will never be an MNZ championship class as stated previously,The rules are a complete dogs breakfast with no homologation needed

If MNZ hadn't chosen to pretty much ignore the class then all that could have been sorted years ago

[SWERVE]

If MNZ hadn't chosen to pretty much ignore the class then all that could have been sorted years ago

Too true................ instead of worrying about petty rulings they should have got behind it as the showcase class for "young talant" and made that goal the prority.
Lets hope its not to late for something positive to come from it all.

Nevertheless the Sth Is and particularly MCC will continue to fully support streetstock and the youngsters and even more champions will be found. A proven pathway for successful young riders.

[Billy]

If MNZ hadn't chosen to pretty much ignore the class then all that could have been sorted years ago

Absolutely,Couldnt agree more Warwick,There was a feud going on as I recall between MNZ and an event organiser at the time who was already running streetstock 150 at club level,He wanted to take to a higher level but because egos got in the way the opportunity was lost!!

Lets ensure the same doesnt happen with Prolite 250

[Billy]

Too true................ instead of worrying about petty rulings they should have got behind it as the showcase class for "young talant" and made that goal the prority.
Lets hope its not to late for something positive to come from it all.

I dont think for 1 minute its about petty rules Merv,Moreso the fact theres no homologation means theres no way too tell whos bikes standard and whos isnt

Nevertheless the Sth Is and particularly MCC will continue to fully support streetstock and the youngsters and even more champions will be found. A proven pathway for successful young riders.

And I will continue to do as much as I can with the 150s in the North Island as well (I still have 8 of them in the shed),There is definitely a place for them,Just not at National level

[oyster]

I've looked everywhere for indication that Prolite will be a championship class this year, and all I can find is entry forms posted just a day ago on our club website listing Prolite as a championship class.
This is surely incorrect as MNZ rules prohibit this. There has never been any open discussion about "prolite championship" and currently under MNZ websites "proposed rule changes" it says "no rule changes proposed" So how can MNZ change the rules at such short notice? (less than two months before the (proposed) championship rounds start)
And if it does happen, how crazy is that: To mix a bunch of adult riders on big (but slow) bikes in a championship battle with children at the same time competing for the McLeary Cup, as they have done with huge success over 5 years now. For these young ones this is their "big day" where they fill the grid, provide safe and exciting riding and pay a heap of money (much more that F3 for example). The close and skilled competition on equal bikes has spawned a current generation of 125GP, Pro Twin and now ever increasing 600 numbers, all in their mid teens where a chance exists for future international success. Why risk something so successful?

[Billy]

I've looked everywhere for indication that Prolite will be a championship class this year, and all I can find is entry forms posted just a day ago on our club website listing Prolite as a championship class.
This is surely incorrect as MNZ rules prohibit this. There has never been any open discussion about "prolite championship" and currently under MNZ websites "proposed rule changes" it says "no rule changes proposed" So how can MNZ change the rules at such short notice? (less than two months before the (proposed) championship rounds start)
And if it does happen, how crazy is that: To mix a bunch of adult riders on big (but slow) bikes in a championship battle with children at the same time competing for the McLeary Cup, as they have done with huge success over 5 years now. For these young ones this is their "big day" where they fill the grid, provide safe and exciting riding and pay a heap of money (much more that F3 for example). The close and skilled competition on equal bikes has spawned a current generation of 125GP, Pro Twin and now ever increasing 600 numbers, all in their mid teens where a chance exists for future international success. Why risk something so successful?

Yerr,Not sure what the deal is with the MNZ thing ,But if you read the entry form in its entirety you will notice that Prolite 250 is listed as a championship class and streetstock is listed as a support class therefore i would expect they would have seperate races,

Something that does bother me though is,Wasnt it you that rang me last week to say that you were trying to organise seperate trophies for the Prolite 250s that were running in the support class with the streetstock 150s and wouldnt that put the same adult riders on 250s on the grid with the younger riders ????

Are you suggesting the prolite class should not go ahead ??If not,Why not??

[oyster]

I'm a great supporter of Prolite, going back thru history you probably say it was my idea to add 250 four stroke to supplement the 150 two stroke bikes. We introduced it in Invercargill about 2004 and in discussing it wish Vic club peoiple (Steve Scullion, Hamish Laing and co it got introduced in the NI not long after, where it remains reasonably strong. In the South it fizzled because people felt the 150 was far superior and we finally abandoned it because certain models of 250 four stroke were way too fast, and besides, juniors weren't allowed to ride them.
A few years later I discussed with Paul Stewart the options re future bike specs to maintain the momentum of Junior Development which exists in Canterbury
The 250 twin is ideal as a possible replacement for the 150 when they finally hit the obsolescence wall. But they are not as good. Too slow, heavy expensive and juniors are not able to legally or safely ride them. In our support series last year they went ok but not as good as a 150. Seth rode one but prefers his 150 any day for outright lap times and low cost running.

I want to see the prolite grow, but to do that they need to be separated, ideally on the track(if practical) but at least on the points board so as to give them a chance against the 150. That's the basis of my comment. At the time there was no indication MNZ was going to score them separately, and I certainly contacted them with my ideas on this, but got no response

Running Prolite as an NZ championship raises the competion bar too high for safety in my opinion if run amongst the young ones. Running as a support class is a bit easier, but still not ideal.

If they are run as a champ class, I'd suggest they run with pro twin on a split start
and chuck out F3. Last year F3 barely had enough entries at some rounds for a championship, and only two of them could keep ahead of the front Pro Twin bikes.
Pro Twin is a go ahead class and shouldn't be competing for championship having to leapfrog lap by lap slower F3 bikes. And I've said again to MNZ the class needs to built up through promotion and support. None of this has happened. Certainly Prolite is dead down here which is a shame.

[wayne]

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[puddytat]

.....change is inevitable...always a bit of pain involved...hopefully not too much...we do have a lot of S/S down here tho....whats the streetstock riders perspective on the mooted changes....

Probably that none of them would really like to ride a slower, heavier & more expensive bike....

[Yow Ling]

If prolite gets its 6 entries and runs a seperate race it will be like watching sidecars on a clubday.

At last Saturdays MCI clubday the SS and F4 combined class was 37 bikes, now thats some support class !

[Kickaha]

If prolite gets its 6 entries and runs a seperate race it will be like watching sidecars on a clubday.

You're exaggerating it won't be as bad as that :lol:

[oyster]

The idea of a championship for Production Light has merit but beforehand there is a lot of work to be done before it'll be ready.

Promote, recruit, train and support.

Do this effectively for a few years and you'll have a consistent and "good quality" field that will benefit from a championship.
But I doubt youth (13 to 16 year olds) will fill the grid. It's more like the punters in this class will be older people just looking for cheap racing, mostly at club level.
At the moment Streetstock in the south is well proven class producing bulk numbers of teenage talent, now filling national classes as high up as 600SP. At the weekend I saw a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds slugging it out on 600's at Nation
Champ pace.

Having a Production Light championship now with less than 2 months notice, no promotion and with very small current club fields is just crazy. I doubt it'll happen anyway, as the rules need to be changed to allow champ status. There isn't the time.

Oh, and Puddytat, Sorry if I implied you're dead, as you're certainly not! You rode so well on Sat! Well done. I admire your spirit and the way you help the young ones around you. Thanks heaps.

[Billy]

Having a Production Light championship now with less than 2 months notice, no promotion and with very small current club fields is just crazy. I doubt it'll happen anyway, as the rules need to be changed to allow champ status. There isn't the time.

Sorry pete,Dont know where your getting your information from,But I spent the day with the roadrace commission chairman yesterday at HD and the Prolite 250 championship WILL kick off at round 1 of the NZSBK Championship January 29 2011,The only ingredient missing at this stage as far as MNZ are concerned is the 6 riders on the grid,I have also had confirmation of this from MCC and Grant Ramage race organiser for round 1 at Timaru.

[Kevin G]

The 250 twin class was always a championship class, It was not a championship last year due to lack of numbers.

[puddytat]

.
But I doubt youth (13 to 16 year olds) will fill the grid. It's more like the punters in this class will be older people just looking for cheap racing, mostly at club level.
At the moment Streetstock in the south is well proven class producing bulk numbers of teenage talent, now filling national classes as high up as 600SP. At the weekend I saw a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds slugging it out on 600's at Nation
Champ pace.

.

i think you right on it with the oldies possibly making up the bulk of riders, I have had several mention that they'd like to give it a go,but mostly on older or unhomologated models, which dont qualify for the class :innocent:
Yes the Club & yourself must be stoked at the young fellas yourve mentored so well ,coming thru into the other formulas.....
I do think the class will take off, but it'll just take some time & I do hope that there'll be sufficient numbers for all the rounds.....Id do Ruapuna round if I was allowed,& wouldnt give a toss if I wasnt timed or points eligible.:whistle:

[Yow Ling]

Maybe they can just start the prolites off the back of the Streetstocks like they do with the Buckets

[oyster]

Billy
My information (or lack of) has come from MNZ, NZSBK, and our club websites
and is totally accurate. Tell what is not correct?
I'd be kidding if I wasn't aware of rumours saying there was to be a championship, but we all know the ratio of truth to rumours is about 10 to 1!
If these rumours are being circulated amongst an "old boy network" excluding the mainstream communication (MNZ website) then this IS seriously wrong and grossly unfair to the 5000 or so members left completely in the dark

Prove me wrong and show me where in Appendix "D" this class exists, or, for that matter any promotion advising members of an upcoming championship.

Kevin.
Go to Appendix "D"
There is no Prolite, Production Light or 250 twin class listed. If is is/was a championship class then how were members meant to know?
I was specifically told by Paul Stewart (RR Commissioner then. Board member now) some time ago Production light is a future replacement for Streetstock and it will NOT be a championship class.

[Billy]

Billy
My information (or lack of) has come from MNZ, NZSBK, and our club websites
and is totally accurate. Tell what is not correct?
I'd be kidding if I wasn't aware of rumours saying there was to be a championship, but we all know the ratio of truth to rumours is about 10 to 1!
If these rumours are being circulated amongst an "old boy network" excluding the mainstream communication (MNZ website) then this IS seriously wrong and grossly unfair to the 5000 or so members left completely in the dark

Prove me wrong and show me where in Appendix "D" this class exists, or, for that matter any promotion advising members of an upcoming championship.

Sorry mate,Cant even access the appendix on the MNZ website as I stated earlier in the thread ,My server wont allow me ,So Ive be fully reliant on information received from the chairman of the roadrace commission,MNZ President,Email confirmation from a Motorcycling Canterbury committee member and phone confirmation from Grant Ramage race organiser for South Canterbury mcc and all these people assure me it is happening

[Billy]

Maybe they can just start the prolites off the back of the Streetstocks like they do with the Buckets

Wouldnt be stupid,But information I have received from MCC is they will start from wherever they qualify within the streetstock grid.

[oyster]

I think you've confirmed all the information is moving around in a very small circle of people "in the know". There is certainly no information in the "public domain"
What puzzles me is what is the motivation to keep it such a secret.
I'm not giving you a hard time Billy, I think you're effort is fantastic and all the right way to promote and support this class. It's just the leadership structure you're working within that seems a bit wobbly.

[oyster]

I think you've confirmed all the information is moving around in a very small circle of people "in the know". There is certainly no information in the "public domain"
What puzzles me is what is the motivation to keep it such a secret.
I'm not giving you a hard time Billy, I think your effort is fantastic and all the right way to promote and support this class. It's just the leadership structure you're working within that seems a bit wobbly.

[Billy]

I think you've confirmed all the information is moving around in a very small circle of people "in the know". There is certainly no information in the "public domain"
What puzzles me is what is the motivation to keep it such a secret.
I'm not giving you a hard time Billy, I think your effort is fantastic and all the right way to promote and support this class. It's just the leadership structure you're working within that seems a bit wobbly.

Never for a minute thought you were Pete,I just have too keep the momentum moving in a positive manner and after all it is a public forum where everybodys entitled to voice their opinion

[lostinflyz]

so who wants to apply

http://motomatters.com/news/2010/12/08/wsbk_launches_european_junior_cup_rival_.html