Ireland? What about New Zealand?

[oldrider]

As a nation, are we looking ahead and thinking enough?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ing8xH3Qj-k

When we wake up, will it be too late, or have we missed the boat already! :facepalm:

[twinbruva]

As a nation, are we looking ahead and thinking enough?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ing8xH3Qj-k

When we wake up, will it be too late, or have we missed the boat already! :facepalm:

What boat?

[mashman]

it's only a country FULL of people :facepalm:. All of the money will leave town. The guy isn't wrong, there are other ways.

[avgas]

I preferred this one.
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[fuknKIWI]

NZ doesn't have any snakes either:bye:

[Argyle]

This part of the world is under different banks and economy.

[NighthawkNZ]

NZ doesn't have any snakes either:bye:

Yes we do, we just call them politicians...

Been saying this for years...

[oldrider]

This part of the world is under different banks and economy.

Can we really be sure about that and how would we know? :shifty:

To whom are they in debt, (our banks and economy) remember he who pays the piper calls the tune! :mellow:

[James Deuce]

This part of the world is under different banks and economy.

No it isn't.

[Usarka]

I was in a lecture in 2004 where a very senior and respected NZ economist was drawing pararraraalalallels with our economy and the (then) recently tanked argentinian economy and saying there were a lot of similarities and we should be concerned.

He also said we had a couple of small factors on our side BUT the longer the boom goes and the higher the debt gets, the bigger the possible bust.

[admenk]

BUT the longer the boom goes and the higher the debt gets, the bigger the possible bust.

Bigger bust??......now you've got me interested......:innocent:

[Banditbandit]

I was in a lecture in 2004 where a very senior and respected NZ economist was drawing pararraraalalallels with our economy and the (then) recently tanked argentinian economy and saying there were a lot of similarities and we should be concerned.

He also said we had a couple of small factors on our side BUT the longer the boom goes and the higher the debt gets, the bigger the possible bust.

Uuuummmmm .. you believed your University lecturers ????

Wanna buy a piece of King Country swamp land ?

[Usarka]

Uuuummmmm .. you believed your University lecturers ????

Wanna buy a piece of King Country swamp land ?

He was guest lecturer - chief economist at one of the big banks at the time.

But he also said economists don't know what they are talking about.....

[ellipsis]

.....most kiwis in my opinion have lost their marbles...their sense of political direction and a hell of a lot of the good things my dad and others worked and fought like fuck for.....but we have never lost our spuds....

[Brian d marge]

O rose you are sick
the worm that flies through the night
in the howling storm

found your crimson bed of joy
and with dark secret love

Does your life destroy..........Blakes poem to the rose seems fitting ....

debt allows us to have that big screen tv , or that new motorbike ,,,,or an Education

it also enslaves people and in one way i am happy to hear that man speak , as Ive been banging on about the same thing since the late eighties

Now, Sorry ,, but Im all right Jack. As I moved and made life choices to reduce my exposure. So personally its all good ,

but the selling of state assets will not be any good for anyone , no matter WHAT , ..you increase the size of the farm to export more..... then how will the run off be managed ,,the water needed to sustain these increased yields ????

These are just examples

No I wonder about Maori , the so called Keepers of the land , where are they ? yes there are small pockets of ( I think) ill informed people doing what they think best but where are the political leaders ? when crafer farms gets sold to the Chinese ( who are safe guarding their future buy buying land and resources globally )
where are our moari leaders to say this land is the land of our ancestors , and CANNOT be sold or misused.???

There are some wonderful New Zealand people , that are much smaterer than I and have been banging on about this as well I quoted Professor Jane Kelsey in a document I wrote a while back and will try and attach below

my blog ;

http://mustnt-grumble.blogspot.com/2009/07/well-that-didnt-work-to-well.html

( if someone knows how to lay it out properly I would be grateful I sort of stuffed it up ,,,,I might actually start a new blog and cut and paste it in the right order )


yaddada yadda until.............Here the point in time I think it went silly and the we lost all control ....

1971 Aug 15, Pres. Nixon suspended conversion of dollars to gold and imposed a 90-day price, wage
and rents freeze and 10% import charge. He also cut various taxes and expenditures. This marked the
end of the gold standard and fixed exchange rates.
1972 The Chicago futures market first began trading financial derivatives

So ( from my blog);
Major national assets are transferred to private corporate owners who have primarily very short-term
goals which result in sub-optimal decision-making in times of economic stress, particularly in respect
of strategic assets.
Greatly increased disparity between the 'haves' and the 'have-nots'.

Increase in attitudes of selfishness and 'me first' in the populace, more crime.

Significant geographic regions of the country are severely depressed economically.

Large decrease in all sorts of public service available as of right, resulting in a reduction in standard of
living that is difficult to quantify - one example is information from the many Departmental libraries
that there used to be - gone, or with highly restricted access.

The bargaining powers of wage and salary earners are mostly minimized in the employment world as
unions are disabled and power is vested mainly in the hands of employers; on the face of it, giving
employees the power to negotiate for themselves seems like doing them a good turn; but most
employees have neither the skill, inclination or association of numbers to negotiate effectively for
themselves. They are easily 'picked off' in isolation. 'Divide and conquer' applies in full measure.

This to me is Poverty and generational problems are;Masochism,Authoritarianism,Lack of
participation in Local issues, Passivity,Low need of / for Education, Finally, Fatalism ,, ( Mr and Mrs
Right Now ). This is a generation cycle and I feel a direct result of the reform implemented by The
fourth labour government .

What should we do from Prof Jane Kelsey's book;
Take economic fundamentalism seriously ..
* Nip it in the bud ..
* Be skeptical about fiscal and other "crises" ..
* Watch for the blitzkrieg ...
* Remember, the conservatives are not always the worst ..
* Take economics seriously ..
* Expose the illogic of their theory ..
* Evaluate the arguments carefully ..
* Challenge hypocrisy ..
* Expose 'stacking of the deck' .. ( I am not sure what this is )
* Maximize every political obstacle ..
* Maintain a strong civil society and popular sector ..
* Work hard to maintain solidarity ..
* Do not compromise the labour movement ..
* Employ the politics of political embarrasment ..
* Reinforce the concept of an independant public service ..
* Encourage community leaders to speak out ..
* Avoid anti-intellectualism ..
* Establish well-resourced critical think-tanks ..
* Develop alternative media outlets ..
* Raise the levels of popular economic literacy ..
* Educate popular and sectoral groups in advance ..
* Resist 'market-speak' ..
* Be realistic and avoid nostalgia ..
* Be pro-active and develop real alternatives ..
* Re-think identity and alliances ..

ACC is just the tip of the iceberg


Long post sorry folks but its just MHO...

Stephen

[Mudfart]

lol the cause of the great depression was due to all the countries in the world having their economic ties. we are a world economy, especially the 1st world countries who have unfortunately, links that cant easily be severed. we are a global community, IMF, world bank, OPEC, APEC, NATO, remember the world trade centre?
in the 1930's they called it "the domino effect". One countries' economy fell after another.
The same thing is happening now, one after the other, and no, its not going to magically stop by printing more money, the effects are inevitably irreversible.
My advice, outlook bleak, start teaching yourself all the survival skills we have been robbed of since the introduction of the world bank, monetary system and international trade and borders. We have been bred to merely service and feed the wealthy.
Learn how to hunt, mayhap one day, in the distant future, once again the borgouise will be on the menu.
Mayhap one day we will open our eyes to know that some of the evil men in our history books were, maybe, right, in some areas of their dictates.

[piston broke]

ireland,new zealand,same same but different.
it is a worldwide problem.
one world government anyone?

here is an interesting doco about our world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqxENMKaeCU

it's not only about the economy though

[nodrog]

NZ doesn't have any snakes either:bye:

They are still on the plane.

Fanny.

[piston broke]

money,
watch the first 10 minutes of this.
it is the same worldwide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gKX9TWRyfs&feature=related

1% of the worlds people have 40% of the worlds wealth

[avgas]

* Expose 'stacking of the deck' .. ( I am not sure what this is )
Also called "create your own fortune".

Its the old blackjack dealer technique. Where he stacks the deck in his own favor.
Stacking the deck in business terms means to basically make something look as if its the only way out.

"We have to save this firm/company to stabilize the economy"
which leads to "You have to buy from us there is no competition"

also called "Boxing" or "Boxed into".

Where you feel you have made the decision, but in reality you had no control what so ever.

[twinbruva]

Learn how to hunt, mayhap one day, in the distant future, once again the borgouise will be on the menu.

It's certainly handy to know how to use (and care for) a knife, you can do so much with a good knife.

Bastille Day........ so many reasons, so many heads.....

I have often thought that a Guillotine (sp) set up on the steps of Parliament (any Parliament, or perhaps all) could, possibly, make the powers that be truly work for the people. Have it there as a gentle reminder.:innocent:

[98tls]

It's certainly handy to know how to use (and care for) a knife, you can do so much with a good knife.

Bastille Day........ so many reasons, so many heads.....

I have often thought that a Guillotine (sp) set up on the steps of Parliament (any Parliament, or perhaps all) could, possibly, make the powers that be truly work for the people. Have it there as a gentle reminder.:innocent:

Fuck you would need a chainsaw,seen the necks on some of those fat bastards:gob:

[twinbruva]

Fuck you would need a chainsaw,seen the necks on some of those fat bastards:gob:

A two-stroke Guillotine......?...hmm, you've got me thinking.:niceone:

[mashman]

ireland,new zealand,same same but different.
it is a worldwide problem.
one world government anyone?

here is an interesting doco about our world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqxENMKaeCU

it's not only about the economy though

That should be shown in schools!!!!

[Mudfart]

yesterday my 7 y.o and 8 y.o had a lesson by guest teachers.
they were bankers who showed them credit cards and taught the kids how to use them, and my kids came home stoked they could get "free" money when they get one of these cards.
thats seriously fucked up, and if I had of been given some prior notice, I would have pulled them from that class, like the religious lessons BS.

[Brian d marge]

Credit as u and I use it I don't think is evil

Fractional reserve is as is the inherent greed that comes with it

Stephen

[oldrider]

Money should be reserved for it's primary purpose .... moving goods and services between producers and consumers!

Save wealth and circulate money, it's not rocket science FFS! :facepalm:

[Swoop]

But he also said economists don't know what they are talking about.....
Economists' and weather forecasters' are gifted with the same attributes. Both take a "best guess" approach and neither are fired when they get it wrong.

[ellipsis]

Economists' and weather forecasters' are gifted with the same attributes. Both take a "best guess" approach and neither are fired when they get it wrong.

.....and they can not get name suppression just 'cos they ecomomists . either....

[Swoop]

.....and they can not get name suppression just 'cos they ecomomists . either....
They can. But only for three months...:blip:

[aprilia_RS250]

NZ won't be fucked. It has felt economic pain but not to the extent western Europe and the US have. Fundamentals that portray this are a small population, bundled with good resources (eg meat and wood) which are inelastic goods and exported with varying free trade economies. Import of electronics is cheap (ex Japan which has experienced major deflation + added benefit of a high NZD). Debt is debt, and many people do not understand debt and are frightened of it. Put it simply, debt is cheap, interest rates are low, why not borrow to induce investment in infrastructure (exactly what Key has been doing).

As long as you don't have the idiots from Labour, Greens, Alliance etc running this country consider your self safe. Anyone who worries more about the unskilled and unmotivated class of people in this country vs the man who starts up his business and creates real work, jobs and pays taxes doesn't get a tick in my book!

A worse disaster would be if some virus, disease affected our exports majorly. E.g. foot and mouth. I'd say we would be in BIG BIG trouble. Imagine your house devalues to 20% of it's current value overnight, NZD slumps to 0.05, international sanctions on NZ...

[Winston001]

Be calm. Take deep breaths everyone. The sky is not falling. :D

We are experiencing an economic recession which happens in cycles and is predictable. That is no comfort to the many people hurt. Nevertheless it is normal and not the end of civilisation.

In fact, despite recessions/depressions etc since the 17th century, technology has continued to advance and the wealth of the individual to expand. It might not feel like that for everyone, and certainly there are groups/places which have diminished in wealth for a period but overall the advantages available to the average human grows with every generation.

[Winston001]

......

debt allows us to have that big screen tv , or that new motorbike ,,,,or an Education

it also enslaves people and in one way i am happy to hear that man speak , as Ive been banging on about the same thing since the late eighties


but the selling of state assets will not be any good for anyone , no matter WHAT , ..you increase the size of the farm to export more..... then how will the run off be managed ,,the water needed to sustain these increased yields ????....



Good post and I particularly liked the William Blake quip. :yes:

Ok, debt is common throughout history. In fact its essential to an economy. Debt is the temporary transfer of wealth from the saver to the spender. If nobody borrowed, savings wouldn't earn any interest. If nobody lent, there would be few businesses and homes.

Where debt comes unstuck is when "prudent" lending rules are ignored. It used to be that only a few people took on high risk debt, sometimes being successful, and sometimes not. But lately consumers in OECD nations have all become significant borrowers with no safety net........and the day of reckoning arrived.

As for increasing the size of a farm - that's an illusion. It is merely buying the farm next door. No more land is created.

As for selling state assets: I'm half with you on this one. There are certain key assets which I think make more sense to be owned by the state eg. electricity.

[Brian d marge]

Good post and I particularly liked the William Blake quip. :yes:

Thank you ! I have more !

Ok, debt is common throughout history. In fact its essential to an economy. Debt is the temporary transfer of wealth from the saver to the spender. If nobody borrowed, savings wouldn't earn any interest. If nobody lent, there would be few businesses and homes.

true as with any product, a profit needs to be generated , but with the fractional reserve , money is being lent on money that really doesn't exist , then by manipulating the debt , organizations who do not have the common mans interest at heart use the debt to profit from and out off the perceived financial woes

As I pointed out in an earlier post , the explosion of credit from early seventies has benefited only a few ( and not new Zealand )

Where debt comes unstuck is when "prudent" lending rules are ignored. It used to be that only a few people took on high risk debt, sometimes being successful, and sometimes not. But lately consumers in OECD nations have all become significant borrowers with no safety net........and the day of reckoning arrived.

See above

As for increasing the size of a farm - that's an illusion. It is merely buying the farm next door. No more land is created.


sorry my bad I meant to say the increased production of the land , as the need for profit increases

As for selling state assets: I'm half with you on this one. There are certain key assets which I think make more sense to be owned by the state eg. electricity.

All utilities that are essential should be in the hands of the people that need them , agreed on this !

[avgas]

A worse disaster would be if some virus, disease affected our exports majorly. E.g. foot and mouth. I'd say we would be in BIG BIG trouble. Imagine your house devalues to 20% of it's current value overnight, NZD slumps to 0.05, international sanctions on NZ...
Nah we will be fine.....
Truth be told - we seem to fuck this up every 10 years or so. So how we keep standing is everyone guess.
I put it down that for the same reason people have contradicting ideas - the NZ economy floats. Some invest more here, others there.....
We never make any progress - as we assume meat is the biggest export. But likewise we never fuck it up when said "stable economies" collapse in on their selves.
Classic case is the kiwifruit industry. This is the third time in 20 years the KF board have fucked it up on such a major level. Did the dollar waver? Nope? because we were all looking elsewhere.
Yet when Aussie announce that steel prices have dropped - the whole economy goes into recession.