The "New Zealand Riders Are Voters" campaign

[MAG-NZ Inc]

This campaign has great potential, we are also approaching election year. To gain the maximum benefits from this campaign we are joining forces with other organisations and bike clubs in a "NZRAV" collaboration. It's early days but so far the responses have been very encouraging.

There is also a separate NZRAV collaboration website (http://www.nzrav.org) where information and updates can be passed on and useful resources can be linked from. All of the supporting organisations' logos will be added to the website as they are made available.

[Hitcher]

This is a good idea if it has an angle. A bunch of bikers rolling around the countryside to different venues sounds like a lot of fun, but to make it more meaningful for all parties concerned (particularly the media) it needs a story or a cause.

"Reducing ACC levies"? Been there, done that, own the tee-shirt.

"Bikers are people too?" So what?

"Riders are voters?" Indeed, but I suspect like other members of the voting public they'll always vote for the party their Mums & Dads did. This will only work if political parties see enough votes floating around (party votes rather than electorate votes) to make it worth their while to come up with some sort of sweetening deal that will secure those votes for them.

So what do we want political parties to offer us in return for our party votes?

[Maha]

This is a good idea if it has an angle. A bunch of bikers rolling around the countryside to different venues sounds like a lot of fun, but to make it more meaningful for all parties concerned (particularly the media) it needs a story or a cause.

"Reducing ACC levies"? Been there, done that, own the tee-shirt.

"Bikers are people too?" So what?

"Riders are voters?" Indeed, but I suspect like other members of the voting public they'll always vote for the party their Mums & Dads did. This will only work if political parties see enough votes floating around (party votes rather than electorate votes) to make it worth their while to come up with some sort of sweetening deal that will secure those votes for them.

So what do we want political parties to offer us in return for our party votes?

Gotta cut the apron strings sooner or later Hitcher, nows a good time.
What we want from political parties is, to be listened to/understood and our concerns to be acted on. Its not difficult. If they dont get next time, we will keep at them until they do get it...

[cheshirecat]

This is a good idea if it has an angle. A bunch of bikers rolling around the countryside to different venues sounds like a lot of fun, but to make it more meaningful for all parties concerned (particularly the media) it needs a story or a cause.

"Reducing ACC levies"? Been there, done that, own the tee-shirt.

"Bikers are people too?" So what?

"Riders are voters?" Indeed, but I suspect like other members of the voting public they'll always vote for the party their Mums & Dads did. This will only work if political parties see enough votes floating around (party votes rather than electorate votes) to make it worth their while to come up with some sort of sweetening deal that will secure those votes for them.

So what do we want political parties to offer us in return for our party votes?

Maybe 'motorbikes are part of the solution' bearing in mind it can be easier to work with other interest groups and we can offer solutions - rider training, conjestion reducton etc etc

[Hitcher]

What we want from political parties is, to be listened to/understood and our concerns to be acted on. Its not difficult. If they dont get next time, we will keep at them until they do get it...

All good. Do we have a list of concerns we want to harangue politicians and their parties with? Hopefully it's short and realistic?

[Bald Eagle]

All good. Do we have a list of concerns we want to harangue politicians and their parties with? Hopefully it's short and realistic?

Don't penalise me for my choice of transport.

[Maha]

All good. Do we have a list of concerns we want to harangue politicians and their parties with? Hopefully it's short and realistic?

You have just discribed Mom.....:facepalm:

[StoneY]

As BRONZ Federation Spokesperson (and generally noisy b****rd) it's with great pleasure I can say that the Federation and its member bodies support this campaign, in principle and spirit.

BRONZ congratulates MAG-NZ on a great initiative, and will share advertising and publicity resources to promote this drive, to remind New Zealand Motorcyclists that they are indeed voters

If all Motorcyclists get onboard, and affect even 3 or 4 electorate results, we could see a couple of Triumph owners in cabinet next year.........

:hug:

[bogan]

As BRONZ Federation Spokesperson (and generally noisy b****rd) it's with great pleasure I can say that the Federation and its member bodies support this campaign, in principle and spirit.

BRONZ congratulates MAG-NZ on a great initiative, and will share advertising and publicity resources to promote this drive, to remind New Zealand Motorcyclists that they are indeed voters

If all Motorcyclists get onboard, and affect even 3 or 4 electorate results, we could see a couple of Triumph owners in cabinet next year.........

:hug:

great! the more the merrier:woohoo: We haven't had much responses back from the various political parties yet, so unsure how bikers will choose to affect the electorate results...

[James Deuce]

Hang on; what initiative?

What do we want in exchange for our party votes?

Pick ONE thing and make it an issue. One single thing.

For instance: The instigator of a SMIDSY accident gets an automatic 3 month licence suspension and a $600 fine.

Or, and this is a personal favourite: Pedestrians get to execute psychlists who run a red to ride through pedestrians using a light controlled pedestrian crossing. Not motorcycle related, but I am very passionate about it.

A waffly campaign to point out that we're voters is all very good, but it needs a point the size of an ICBM nose cone for anyone to pay attention AND for bikers to stick their vote where their money is.

From my increasingly historic perspective when it comes to getting bikers to stick to principles, bikers turn out to be all mouth and no trousers.

[JimO]

Don't penalise me for my choice of transport.

you ride a honda??

[Bald Eagle]

Hang on; what initiative?

What do we want in exchange for our party votes?

Pick ONE thing and make it an issue. One single thing.



Well here's my single thing. No differential policies for motorcycles.

That means levies, licensing, roading policy, enforcement and any other government activities which currently treat us differently because of the transport we use.

Riders Are voters & Riders are equal citizens.

[Katman]

I can't help but feel that this is another case of "We want, we want, we want....." without any suggestion of us offering up anything in return.

[StoneY]

From my increasingly historic perspective when it comes to getting bikers to stick to principles, bikers turn out to be all mouth and no trousers.

Now now JD, I have worn several pairs of trousers out this last 14 months matey...... and I am sure you refer to other bikers anyway.

I said in several post protest threads, that we are voters and the gubbermint should fear us
IF we all apply the same zealous energy we did to BIKEOI I reckon we will make a difference.
I am very happy to back this, no matter how big or small the impact may be
(HUGE is my aim tho)

*Me personal opinion this post*

[Bald Eagle]

I can't help but feel that this is another case of "We want, we want, we want....." without any suggestion of us offering up anything in return.

Well that seems to work for most successful lobby groups. They are hardly likely to change their thinking if we are being nice to them now are they.

[Katman]

Well that seems to work for most successful lobby groups. They are hardly likely to change their thinking if we are being nice to them now are they.

I would suggest that until the likes of BRONZ and MAG-NZ publically state that they are totally supportive of the idea of motorcyclists cleaning up their own backyard, the powers that be will continue to laugh their arses off at us.

[bogan]

I would suggest that until the likes of BRONZ and MAG-NZ publically state that they are totally supportive of the idea of motorcyclists cleaning up their own backyard, the powers that be will continue to laugh their arses off at us.

That comes under 'personal action' this thread is about a 'national action', specifically to the politicians. If you got specific ideas for local or national action to 'clean up our own backyard', we do have a members forum for that (however you will likely be conscripted into doing plenty of the work!).

[Mom]

For me personally the complete arogance of these MP's beggars belief. When I write to them I expect to get some sort of response, not just an acknowlegement of receipt. Sure, my questions may been a little bit tricky and may have to have been answered carefully to avoid being shown up as a know nothing, trot out the propoganda puppet, but to simply ignore me is unforgivable.

The delivery of coal this year is going to outweigh the oranges, lucky I have a BIG bag of it :yes:

These MP's need to understand and know that the people put them where they are, the people can just as easily remove them. Bikers Are Voters.

[Katman]

Bikers Are Voters.

Probably only about 2% of voters though.

[Mom]

Probably only about 2% of voters though.

Ah, but how many votes can we influence? You only need 5% to get a seat in the house these days.

[Katman]

Ah, but how many votes can we influence? You only need 5% to get a seat in the house these days.

Trouble is Anne, voting in a Government is something that most people consider sufficiently important that they will be unlikely to base their vote on a single issue.

I seriously doubt you will even get all motorcyclists to base their vote solely on the fact that they ride a motorcycle.

[James Deuce]

Bald Eagle's suggestion is on the money. SOMETHING like that.

Get a promise from a party that they'll table bill amending the ACC Act and they get votes. They don't have to get the amendment passed, they simply need to table it after writing it in consultation with MAG and BRONZ.

At the risk of upsetting Mr Stoney and Ms. Mom, you need to have a very stable platform for the soapbox. Bikers have to like the idea, and the politicians you lobby have to be willing. Both parties have to be principled enough to FOLLOW THROUGH.

I still hear of people casting an electorate vote and a party vote for the same damn party, so I have NO confidence that bikers will amend their voting habits.

[bogan]

Trouble is Anne, voting in a Government is something that most people consider sufficiently important that they will be unlikely to base their vote on a single issue.

I seriously doubt you will even get all motorcyclists to base their vote solely on the fact that they ride a motorcycle.

Oh I dunno, how many votes did labour get when they did the interest free student loan thing? (though they lost mine with such blatant vote buying). Sure most people won't vote for retards (well relatively) cos of one good issue, but there is always one that tips the scales :yes:

[GOONR]

As BRONZ Federation Spokesperson (and generally noisy b****rd) it's with great pleasure I can say that the Federation and its member bodies support this campaign, in principle and spirit.

BRONZ congratulates MAG-NZ on a great initiative, and will share advertising and publicity resources to promote this drive, to remind New Zealand Motorcyclists that they are indeed voters

If all Motorcyclists get onboard, and affect even 3 or 4 electorate results, we could see a couple of Triumph owners in cabinet next year.........

:hug:

Thanks for your support, it is appreciated :)

[archie-no2]

Parties want to say, that they will make a difference to their country. If bikers put forward an idea that a politician can steal and claim as their own idea because it will help them get into parliment then we should give them something to act on. For example, 'improving Rider training' could be the politicians new initiative, this should lower road accidents, injuries, fatalities and in turn lower acc costs. This means that the politician feels they have made a difference to society and bikers also benefit. But it will also have equal terms where we help them to get in and they help us...

Am i thinking along approiate lines or am i completely on the wrong track?

[GOONR]

Well here's my single thing. No differential policies for motorcycles.

That means levies, licensing, roading policy, enforcement and any other government activities which currently treat us differently because of the transport we use.

Riders Are voters & Riders are equal citizens.

Sounds like a reasonable single thing to me.

[Maha]

Parties want to say, that they will make a difference to their country. If bikers put forward an idea that a politician can steal and claim as their own idea because it will help them get into parliment then we should give them something to act on. For example, 'improving Rider training' could be the politicians new initiative, this should lower road accidents, injuries, fatalities and in turn lower acc costs. This means that the politician feels they have made a difference to society and bikers also benefit. But it will also have equal terms where we help them to get in and they help us...

Am i thinking along approiate lines or am i completely on the wrong track?

In a nutshell, all we have do to is plant the seed. By that I mean, table an idea/initiative that we want to see happen , make it look like its thier idea/initiative, and there it is.
Sounds all to easy when put like that but it really can be that easy.

[StoneY]

Parties want to say, that they will make a difference to their country. If bikers put forward an idea that a politician can steal and claim as their own idea because it will help them get into parliment

Am i thinking along approiate lines or am i completely on the wrong track?

Hit the nail on its head mate. :yes:

But, just like BRONZ/MAG etc I don't give a toss who claims the credit for a good thing, as long as we get better treatment

I have meetings with several politicians before the end of December (and I am talking party leaders/co leaders) and I will be making sure they know there are 100,000 motorcycle licenses in voters pockets, what are they going to promise us, and how will we MAKE them keep said promise if/when in power

This campaign adds to the work BRONZ does, it shows other representative groups are aiming for the same goals, equality as road users, and tax paying citizens

BRONZ will not participate in any illegal or public disruption, but bet your last dollar we have never, and will never, stop pounding on Parliaments door to say 'Oi, we aint gone away yet Nick!'

[StoneY]

For me personally the complete arogance of these MP's beggars belief. When I write to them I expect to get some sort of response, not just an acknowlegement of receipt.

That's why I go knock on the door and hassle the EA/PA till I get my legally required 15 minutes Anne

:yes:

[Quasievil]

The New Zealand Bikers Party

Start that, I will vote for it the other parties are useless as far as looking after my interests.
:yes:

[st00ji]

I would suggest that until the likes of BRONZ and MAG-NZ publically state that they are totally supportive of the idea of motorcyclists cleaning up their own backyard, the powers that be will continue to laugh their arses off at us.

i'd suggest the state of our backyard is irrelevant provided we have enough votes behind us. we want we want will work fine, all we have to give in return is another term in power and they'll let us ride buck naked with no hands if we like.

while i agree with you that looking after our own shit is a good idea, its not really relevant in the real world

[Zamiam]

Trouble is Anne, voting in a Government is something that most people consider sufficiently important that they will be unlikely to base their vote on a single issue.

I seriously doubt you will even get all motorcyclists to base their vote solely on the fact that they ride a motorcycle.

Exactly - while differential treatment of any group by any bunch of bureaucrats seriously pisses me off I’m not going to vote based on a single issue such as the impact on my right to ride a motorcycle. There are much much more important things to select MP’s on.

What they are doing to us is no different to what they have done to a multitude of other “minority groups” and is simply a continuation of knee jerk relations by those who think they have the moral high ground. While I applaud any and everyone who stands up to injustice history proves that it’s a very hard road to change things.
(don't read that as me saying not to stand up to them - its me saying be realistic)

[MSTRS]

Exactly - while differential treatment of any group by any bunch of bureaucrats seriously pisses me off I’m not going to vote based on a single issue such as the impact on my right to ride a motorcycle. There are much much more important things to select MP’s on.



For a great many of 'us' motorcycling is a life-style choice. When one's life-style is threatened, a single issue around that can have more sway they you might think.

[Katman]

For a great many of 'us' motorcycling is a life-style choice. When one's life-style is threatened, a single issue around that can have more sway they you might think.

Is I said earlier, we probably only make up 2% of the voting public.

How many motorcyclists are likely to place the issue of motorcycling above that of education, health services, law and order, tax cuts etc.? I possibly might - but then my livelihood depends on motorcycling. I think you'd be disappointed in the actual number who would think likewise.

Swaying the non-motorcycling public to join us in voting solely on the motorcycling issue? Good luck with that.

[Bald Eagle]

The single issue I perceive is not about motorcycles per se. The issue is the differential treatment of a group of citizens based on their particular choice.

By extension this could affect any other 'special choice' group and thereby is of concern for all voters.

[Maha]

Hit the nail on its head mate. :yes:


BRONZ will not participate in any illegal or public disruption.

And heres another nail...
While a show of solidarity is seen by the many to be the right thing to do initially, ultimately it has little or no effect. That has been proven time and time again over the years. Not really a protest is it if theres no or at least some public distruption? Take the Nuclear protests of the 70's and 80's, they didn't fuck around and be all nice about it, they showed up and didn't give a shit who they disrupted, they were there protesting about something they were very passionate about. Now look where NZ now stand on the Nuclear issue.
The time for being all nice about what we as motorcyclist beleive in, is fast coming to an end.

[Toaster]

The time for be all nice about what we as motorcyclist beleive in is fast coming to an end.


Agreed. Its simple..... noise gets a reaction. If they think we will just bend over and take it, then they will simply give it to us where it hurts... up the bum and in the wallet.

Noise from bikers taking action may not be enough itself but that with the noise from the public in reaction to lawful but disruptive protest may get a better reaction.

[Fatt Max]

As MSTRS says, motorcycling is a lifestyle choice, issues that affect this choice and our subsequent lifestyle are dear to us and we can choose to take action to preserve it.

It is true to say that there are a range of concerns that need to be addressed in society today such as education, healthcare, transport, pie availability, care of the elderly, the benefit system, pie shops, unemployment etc but lets face it, every single piggy bastard politician will lie and bleet about how well they will repair these systems (except the pie stuff) just to get your vote.

In fact, the only thing event remotely pie related is their wish to get on the MP gravy train and hold power for a few years.

So, any vote for any party will always end in the same result of lies, deceit and an empty lunchbox. Every time you challenge it, you will be subjected to relentless statistics, excuses, spin doctoring and all the other shite that these pricks spill out relating to the main portfolio’s of government.

Now, you take the lifestyle choice of motorcycling and straight away you can hold ministers accountable for their shortcomings if they fail to deliver on a promise. Lobby hard for what you want at election time then lobby even harder to make sure you get it. Politicians HATE being exposed for what they really are (lying bastards) so a simple demand for support on motorcycling issues can be quantified once the party is on power.

For example, a single road user charge for all is demanded. The lying bastard politician is recorded as saying that will happen. Politician now in parliament, nothing happens, then hammer the bastard. However, it may happen and that then will ensure your vote (which is yours and yours alone) is given to a party that supports issues relating to your lifestyle, in this case, motorcycling.

Accept that the social agendas will always be lied about and concentrate on what matters outside of those areas. Just be sure to be sure the promises given are followed through.

Your are a rider, you are a voter, riders are voters

…and pie eaters…..

[MadDuck]

The New Zealand Bikers Party

Start that, I will vote for it the other parties are useless as far as looking after my interests.
:yes:

Anything is possible ......if we want it bad enough.

[Maha]

Is I said earlier, we probably only make up 2% of the voting public.

How many motorcyclists are likely to place the issue of motorcycling above that of education, health services, law and order, tax cuts etc.? I possibly might - but then my livelihood depends on motorcycling. I think you'd be disappointed in the actual number who would think likewise.

Swaying the non-motorcycling public to join us in voting solely on the motorcycling issue? Good luck with that.

Any Governing Party have thier policies on education, health services, law and order, tax cuts etc.
Noboby is suggesting that those who vote, dont take into account the things they beleive when it comes ticking the box.
If there were a New Zealand Biker Party, I am sure that particular party would have more than just the one policy. In saying that, voting for one particular issue is not unheard of. I have voted that way before today.

[Maha]

Agreed. Its simple..... noise gets a reaction. If they think we will just bend over and take it, then they will simply give it to us where it hurts... up the bum and in the wallet.

Noise from bikers taking action may not be enough itself but that with the noise from the public in reaction to lawful but disruptive protest may get a better reaction.

True Cam.
Riders are Voter, so are all other road users...:rockon:
There are those that think this is just about bikes, well its not.:shutup:

[MSTRS]

Is I said earlier, we probably only make up 2% of the voting public.

How many motorcyclists are likely to place the issue of motorcycling above that of education, health services, law and order, tax cuts etc.? I possibly might - but then my livelihood depends on motorcycling. I think you'd be disappointed in the actual number who would think likewise.

Swaying the non-motorcycling public to join us in voting solely on the motorcycling issue? Good luck with that.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The majority of motorcyclists are of voting age. We tend to be rather passionate about things motorcycling. Turn out at the polls is usually very low, compared to the number who are entitled to vote. If every motorcyclist voted for a particular policy, I think you'd find our numbers significant percentage-wise.

As for the issues of ed, crime, tax etc...every party campaigns on doing those better than what went before. And it's well known that every party eventually gets voted out in favour of one with bigger promises.
By introducing a 'new' issue, something new could very well happen.
After all, you are intelligent enough to know that doing the same thing over and over gets the same result over and over...

[StoneY]

And heres another nail...
While a show of solidarity is seen by the many to be the right thing to do initially, ultimately it has little or no effect. That has been proven time and time again over the years. Not really a protest is it if theres no or at least some public distruption?

BIKEOI was mildly disruptive based purely on numbers, numbers far above what we actually thought would attend

We would never have managed to pull it off without sanction and assistance from the authorities
The kicker was, if we refused to park at the Stadium as the Police requested, we would have been met by huge roadbloacks with fully equiped riot teams waiting for us, and we would not have had anywhere near the impact our peacefull (if loud) protest recieved

Protest, fine. Deliberately disrupt, nope.

The truckies are still despised in theCapital for the 1/2 days mayhem they caused by shutting this city down, it totally backfired on them, but you ask ANY Wellingtonian about the BIKEOI event, and you get 'awesome, all them bikes, and they behaved so well!'

Honey, or vinegar, which one attracts the most flies?

[Maha]

....add a bucket of shit to the equation and the answer is simple.

[pc220]

Is I said earlier, we probably only make up 2% of the voting public.

How many motorcyclists are likely to place the issue of motorcycling above that of education, health services, law and order, tax cuts etc.? I possibly might - but then my livelihood depends on motorcycling. I think you'd be disappointed in the actual number who would think likewise.

Swaying the non-motorcycling public to join us in voting solely on the motorcycling issue? Good luck with that.

Chin up mate , one day your glass will be half full.:yes:

[Katman]

Chin up mate , one day your glass will be half full.:yes:

Only for a minute or so. :eek:

[James Deuce]

Chin up mate , one day your glass will be half full.:yes:

The glass is neither half full nor half empty. It's simply twice as big as it needs to be.

[archie-no2]

James Deuce
Originally Posted by pc220
Chin up mate , one day your glass will be half full.
The glass is neither half full nor half empty. It's simply twice as big as it needs to be.

No, the tap broke halfway during filling. (plumbers)
Or the drought has set in so we all must be conserving water. (farmers/govt)

[Maha]

I had a shirt made up today....well, yesterday really...$23 I supplied the shirt :yes:

[Luckylegs]

...riot teams waiting for us, and we would not have had anywhere near the impact our peacefull (if loud) protest recieved...

:facepalm::no: You're joking right. You do watch the news. That sounds like a prime opportunity missed

[pritch]

Generally I have regarded single issue voting as a bit ummm shallow(?). Having said that, I have used my party vote in that manner on one occasion.

Our collective vote might appeal to a minority party rather than one of the major parties because unless the minor parties get someone in the house they must get the magic 5%. To get that 5% the politicians will sell their soul.

That being the case, they might as well sell part of it to us.

[Bald Eagle]

But there's good reason they are minor parties, certainly don't want to encourage them

They get some seats in the house and suddenly then think they're important king makers or some other such bullshit.

[Maha]

:facepalm::no: You're joking right. You do watch the news. That sounds like a prime opportunity missed

....I wonder how Wellington would react if say, one morning, a few trucks blocked the Hutt Road into the city to allow thousands of bikes to totally take over the surrounding streets of Parliament?

But there's good reason they are minor parties, certainly don't want to encourage them

They get some seats in the house and suddenly then think they're important king makers or some other such bullshit.

As long as they think that, then thats ok, I know some bikers (and Im guessing you do also) that think they're important king makers?

[wysper]

Generally I have regarded single issue voting as a bit ummm shallow(?). Having said that, I have used my party vote in that manner on one occasion.

Our collective vote might appeal to a minority party rather than one of the major parties because unless the minor parties get someone in the house they must get the magic 5%. To get that 5% the politicians will sell their soul.

That being the case, they might as well sell part of it to us.

Problem would be you might get the minor party in to parliament, but the minor party wouldn't have the power to change the ACC or what ever you were seeking. We would need a major party and then ensure they kept their word. I am sure that getting them to keep their word would be the hardest part.

[Maha]

Problem would be you might get the minor party in to parliament, but the minor party wouldn't have the power to change the ACC or what ever you were seeking. We would need a major party and then ensure they kept their word. I am sure that getting them to keep their word would be the hardest part.

They way I see it, voting for any party other than the primary two, only takes votes away from those party's making it harder for them to govern alone (which they fucken hate right?)
One man managed to do it in the 80's, anyone remember the Bob Jones lead New Zealand Party?

[StoneY]

One man managed to do it in the 80's, anyone remember the Bob Jones lead New Zealand Party?

Yep I do.

Still see Bob now and then to, another matter entirely tho. May ask him for advice now youve reminded me of that time in history...........

[steelphoenix]

They way I see it, voting for any party other than the primary two, only takes votes away from those party's making it harder for them to govern alone (which they fucken hate right?)
One man managed to do it in the 80's, anyone remember the Bob Jones lead New Zealand Party?
Or the McGillicuddy Serious Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGillicuddy_Serious_Party)?

[James Deuce]

It doesn't take votes "off" anyone. Proportional systems of Government are supposed to give the "people" the ability to construct a government that represents them. Instead, you silly buggers have treated it as a confusing version of FPP and kept voting for Labour & National as if bipartisan politics is the only way you can see the world working.

MMP voting gives you the scope to support your primary philosophically aligned party as well as supporting another party who promises to support your "single issue" (whatever the hell that will turn out to be).

Stop thinking of your two votes as belonging to one party and start strategically thinking how you can use them to best effect. Labour's not going to lead the House next time round right? The Maori Party and ACT are in partnership with National. Of those two ACT is the only party with Libertarian enough views to support an Individualist pursuit being targeted as an assault on personal freedoms. Like it or lump it they're a "natural" ally. If you establish a relationship with ACT then MAG/BRONZ members vote for the electorate candidate they support and their party votes ALL go to ACT.

In places like Germany political parties will organise their members to vote as a bloc sometimes in support of a party who is to all intents and purposes diametrically opposed politically speaking, often in exchange for a voting bloc supporting THEIR party in another district.

How many of you BELONG to a political party?

If you want to be able to dictate political policy you need to be able to influence the political system. To do that you need to belong. Lobby groups are all very well, but they are essentially toothless if the political system feels no threat, which clearly it doesn't at present.

[Hitcher]

One man managed to do it in the 80's, anyone remember the Bob Jones lead New Zealand Party?

That was FPP. Politics in New Zealand hasn't been that simple for years, not that the "average" voter has figured that out yet.

[pritch]

They get some seats in the house and suddenly then think they're important king makers or some other such bullshit.

Exactly! You can whinge about it, or you can use it to your advantage.

As someone said to me once, "I'm one of the few people in this country who changes governments."

If you vote for the same party every time your vote is cancelled out by another guy doing the same thing for the other team. Only those who from time to time change their votes, change governments.

If we can convince politicians we are prepared to become "swinging voters" they will have to listen.

[Hitcher]

If we can convince politicians we are prepared to become "swinging voters" they will have to listen.

You can start by explaining to me what becoming a "swing voter" means.

[Maha]

That was FPP. Politics in New Zealand hasn't been that simple for years, not that the "average" voter has figured that out yet.

Did I hear right that they want to move back to FPP for the 2014 election?

[StoneY]

:facepalm::no: You're joking right. You do watch the news. That sounds like a prime opportunity missed

Ok, the BIKEOI was never meant to be a riot

We pulled it off without any arrests or fights, or even a ticket issued (for the main convoys)
What would we have gained by causing such a situation to boil over?

Opportunity missed my ass

So many people keep repeating this sort of dribble, none of them were present when myself and the other organisers met with the Council, SIS, Police, Parliament Intellegence Unit, the guy from the Army, to be told 'we will assist you as long as you assist us by coming peacefully'

The public in Wellington STILL love Bikers because of how well we ran that event, and the minimal disruption it caused to the daily business of the city.
Your thirst for blood, flames and anarchy would have had the opposite effect, this I know for a fact

[Hitcher]

Did I hear right that they want to move back to FPP for the 2014 election?

I understand that the plan is to have a referendum. I doubt that there will be any change, even if the referendum suggests a preference for a return to FPP. Even though it's widely used for local government elections, most people don't understand STV either, which is probably the leading contender if MMP is to be replaced by some other system of proportional representation.

[Luckylegs]

Ok, the BIKEOI was never meant to be a riot

We pulled it off without any arrests or fights, or even a ticket issued (for the main convoys)
What would we have gained by causing such a situation to boil over?

Opportunity missed my ass

So many people keep repeating this sort of dribble, none of them were present when myself and the other organisers met with the Council, SIS, Police, Parliament Intellegence Unit, the guy from the Army, to be told 'we will assist you as long as you assist us by coming peacefully'

The public in Wellington STILL love Bikers because of how well we ran that event, and the minimal disruption it caused to the daily business of the city.
Your thirst for blood, flames and anarchy would have had the opposite effect, this I know for a fact

Nowhere in my post did I suggest starting or participating a riot. I merely suggested that from a headlines point of view. A group of people turning up to protest (both legally and peacefully and being confronted by the the bullying tactics of the powers that be in the form of riot police would have made for an 'Impactful' news story.

Your assertion that Wellington "love bikers" cos of the way we handled it may very well be true, I dont know. I have to admit to being a little more cynical and think that they (as for as jo public is concerned) simply retained there existing level of indefference.

...You seem prone to taking shite far too personally man, No-ones bagging yours or anyone elses efforts around the Bikoi :niceone:

[riffer]

...You seem prone to taking shite far too personally man, No-ones bagging yours or anyone elses efforts around the Bikoi :niceone:

Hmmm. From where I stand it appears Brent takes personal insults personally, while acting professionally on matters BRONZ. Perhaps some of you people could consider waling a mile in his shoes before posting...

As for direct disruptive protest action, that's not BRONZ policy. Perhaps its a major point of differentiation between MAG and BRONZ. If so - that's good. We need both organisations working together to achieve any effect on policy. There's definitely a place for both of us here.

BRONZ have been very effective in working withing the relevant governmental organisations this year. And a HUGE amount of that has to do with the way bikers were perceived after BIKOI.

Brent may come across sometimes as a loud-mouthed stroppy ginger. But under that facade there's an incredibly passionate, intelligent, caring individual who's absolutely dedicated to a better outcome for all motorcyclists - even the idiotic ones.

And for that he has my support.

[Luckylegs]

... waling a mile in his shoes before posting...

I'll leave the waling to the Japanese and bob marley, but that aside... My post was. Serious one and raised a valid point (albeit based on my opinion)



Brent may come across sometimes as a loud-mouthed stroppy ginger. But under that facade there's an incredibly passionate, intelligent, caring individual who's absolutely dedicated to a better outcome for all motorcyclists - even the idiotic ones.

Passion is a powerful thing eh ?



PS gingas rule :woohoo:

[StoneY]

PS gingas rule :woohoo:

Depends.... anywhere except the habitual abode, and I would agree.

However 'her indoors' runs a very tight ship at our pad.... :lol::not:

[Waxxa]

if you want any permanent change then MAG-NZ needs to become a political party.

You only need 5% of the vote and you have a member in parliament. Become the power broker!

[Bassmatt]

I understand that the plan is to have a referendum. I doubt that there will be any change, even if the referendum suggests a preference for a return to FPP.

I wouldn't bet on that. The two big parties would love to go back to FPP. :yes:

[caseye]

Hmmm. From where I stand it appears Brent takes personal insults personally, while acting professionally on matters BRONZ. Perhaps some of you people could consider waling a mile in his shoes before posting...

As for direct disruptive protest action, that's not BRONZ policy. Perhaps its a major point of differentiation between MAG and BRONZ. If so - that's good. We need both organisations working together to achieve any effect on policy. There's definitely a place for both of us here.

BRONZ have been very effective in working withing the relevant governmental organisations this year. And a HUGE amount of that has to do with the way bikers were perceived after BIKOI.

Brent may come across sometimes as a loud-mouthed stroppy ginger. But under that facade there's an incredibly passionate, intelligent, caring individual who's absolutely dedicated to a better outcome for all motorcyclists - even the idiotic ones.

And for that he has my support.

Here here riffer.Stoney has always had my support for what he has done in Welly.He still has it now and as anyone with eyes can see I'm a MAG-NZ member too.
Always will be a time and a place for differing views/opinions and methods.I' ve never seen being in different camps as a reason to attack others, simply because they do things differently.
If there is a clearly defined point of difference between BRONZ and MAG-NZ or any of the other players in the bike world I've yet to actually see it.We all want the same thing.Fair treatment for all motorists. Motorcyclists included naturally.
Different organisations may say things differently, they may even approach things differently but the desired outcome is the same.
Stop wasting breath and time hitting out at other groups and start thinking, how can we assist those doing the most good going forward and still be involved.
Bikers,Morons not necessarily the same but hell sometimes in here it makes ya wonder.
I've stood alongside Brent and others in Wellington, twice! I'd do it again in a heart beat.He's a mate of mine and he's someone who helped make a difference, I wish to continue helping him and others make a difference, not fight amongst ourselves.
I'm a member of BRONZ Dorkland and a MAG-NZ rep, I'm MAG-NZ through and through but don't expect me to bag our fellow motorcycle groups, either personally or collectively.Of all the BRONZ groups, Wellington was the first to show an interest in working with us here at MAG-NZ to achieve a common goal.For that I thank Brent and his cronies (hey Ratti) for having the good sense to realise there is no threat, but another ally.

As for MAG-NZ becoming a political party, well someone/group has to, perhaps it'll be a bunch of people who can see that backing all biker groups to achieve that as an end goal .
Perhaps it;ll be all the people who see the Riders Are Voters campaign started by MAG-NZ who get together and elect a spokesperson and who take it to being a political party that'll do it, who cares as long as it gets done.
"Just Do IT"
This thread was started to promote the campaign and to get ideas and opinions and to see who's actually interesed in getting something done, not bitching at one an other.

[StoneY]

Too big post to quote Cas, but I agree with evbery word you wrote bruv!

This threads about making riders aware they CAN vote the government out if they're unhappy enough over the way we were treated this last 2 years

I said something very similar after the Febuary protests and got laughed at, and I was not the first to say it, and sure wont be the last.

Again, well done on getting the campaign off the ground team MAG
This is a personal post and is MY own personal opinion for the record :)

[ynot slow]

Voting is an issue for sure,look at Winston and his oldies they have voters who will vote for whatever party gives them a percieved fair go,and how many oldies are/were bikers,if you want to talk numbers maybe a tick in the right box may help,even if it does go against your normal party vote.

[Maha]

Voting is an issue for sure,look at Winston and his oldies they have voters who will vote for whatever party gives them a percieved fair go,and how many oldies are/were bikers,if you want to talk numbers maybe a tick in the right box may help,even if it does go against your normal party vote.

Winston is brilliant, he knows how to run a :facepalm: campaign very well and by May/June next year he will right up the arse of and drilling at the very core of the two leading party's.

[pc220]

Winston is brilliant, he knows how to run a :facepalm: campaign very well and by May/June next year he will right up the arse of and drilling at the very core of the two leading party's.

Hope you are not planning on teaming up with Grey Power. Imagine having to trade the 1300 for a mobility scooter.:facepalm:

[Maha]

Hope you are not planning on teaming up with Grey Power. Imagine having to trade the 1300 for a mobility scooter.:facepalm:

Only if it would have one of those full clear plastic weather shields...:rockon:

[Maha]

Speaking to a farmer today about shit in general...smoking was one topic which turn into taxes which morfed into acc/rego and his comment...''the sooner people get off there arse and say something the better I reckon, whens it all gonna stop''.

.....a tractor up the steps of Paliament, thats been done before eh?

[Fatt Max]

Speaking to a farmer today about shit in general...smoking was one topic which turn into taxes which morfed into acc/rego and his comment...''the sooner people get off there arse and say something the better I reckon, whens it all gonna stop''.

.....a tractor up the steps of Paliament, thats been done before eh?

It certainly has mate,

And yes, there are rumblings all over the world about the people not getting a fair go. The UK has just hiked VAT (GST) to 20%. The prediction there is that house prices will tumble, unemployment will rise and it will turn to shite.....and there are rumblings...

Honestly, piss enough people off and people will want to get stuck in...

Its called getting off the arse and saying something...

[Maha]

It certainly has mate,

And yes, there are rumblings all over the world about the people not getting a fair go. The UK has just hiked VAT (GST) to 20%. The prediction there is that house prices will tumble, unemployment will rise and it will turn to shite.....and there are rumblings...

Honestly, piss enough people off and people will want to get stuck in...

Its called getting off the arse and saying something...

There seems to be alot of truth in that....
One farmer is one farmer, but thoughts cant be just his own.
What an awesome sight it would be if the pissed of population joined in an uprising to a show of strength against the establishment, tiz election year after all...
Ah dreams are free.:corn:

[bogan]

.....a tractor up the steps of Paliament, thats been done before eh?

yeh but it was only a little one, a John Deere 8360 would make a bigger 'impression'

[Maha]

yeh but it was only a little one, a John Deere 8360 would make a bigger 'impression'

think big!

[mashman]

It certainly has mate,

And yes, there are rumblings all over the world about the people not getting a fair go. The UK has just hiked VAT (GST) to 20%. The prediction there is that house prices will tumble, unemployment will rise and it will turn to shite.....and there are rumblings...

Honestly, piss enough people off and people will want to get stuck in...

Its called getting off the arse and saying something...

20%, holy business rort batman... When we was back in blighty last christmas, they had just reduced the rate down to 15%...



Ah dreams are free.


They are. My dream always starts with a death match... 27 superior ministers v 27 ordinary people, winner gets the Country...