Aging motorcyclists - Close Up tonight 30/11/10

[James Deuce]

Add fake "novelty" german helmets and you have my vote:yes:

Done!

But not "real" open face helmets and goggles. They're cool.

[Ocean1]

I'm been putting my mind over the last couple of years to how to get people to pay attention while driving.

It’s not something you can “get” people to do. It’s not even behaviour they can change themselves.


... It is a very, very complex area. It partly explains why the popos do what they can do, and leave the things that are bloody challenging to change.
I've asked plenty of times before, but what is it you'd like the popos to do to improve drivers attention-deficit-disorder?

Fuck all in fact. Yes it’s a very very complex area, just accept that it’s not something within your control and move on. Preferably without spending too much of my money in the meantime. If, when you find you have control of the design of roading and its attendant infrastructure then feel free to ask again.


I reckon a licence should cost 10K + 240 hours of driving practice WITH an instructor and the same to get it back if you lose it.

And the historic scientific foundation upon which you’ve assembled this idea is what?
I’d suggest any such policy set would, if pursued beyond a minimum would be universally ignored. I know I’d ignore it, and I could afford it.


Just a statistic to be debated ad nauseam by anyone who who has a barrow to push.

I’ll have a wee shove. I’ll expect someone else to supply the ammo though.

How many driver hours were clocked up on NZ roads last year?
And how many hours did it take before someone died?
How did that stack up compared to the other ways people choose to die?


Anyone?

[James Deuce]

And the historic scientific foundation upon which you’ve assembled this idea is what?
I’d suggest any such policy set would, if pursued beyond a minimum would be universally ignored. I know I’d ignore it, and I could afford it.



Practically any Western European licensing system.

However where the point you've raised comes to the fore is that respect for individual human life takes a precedence over individual "needs" in a lot of Western European cultures. Their approach to life is different to our "me first" attitude, hence why political protest is so effective in those cultures.

A licence in NZ has no value. Neither does anyone else's life you or I share the road with.

[MSTRS]

...
1. Everyone going for a license to be required to keep a log book recording conditions, distance covered etc, and for licenses not to be issued until people can show that they have driven open road, night time etc

....

Whilst I appreciate the intent, this could never happen. The system insists you HAVE a licence before you can operate a vehicle.
The chicken and the egg will get sooo confused...

[Katman]

It’s not something you can “get” people to do. It’s not even behaviour they can change themselves.


How fucking stupid are you?

[Voltaire]

Improve driver attention....
Replace the air bag in the steering wheel with a big steel spike 100 mm long aimed at the drivers chest, fit it to all cars....that would improve driving standards in a flash.:innocent:

If the Police think speed is the main problem why don't they restict the power to experience ratio.
Cars these days are so comfortable, quiet and easy to drive with loud stereos that the driver is in a world of his own....often miles away concentration wise.

[Ocean1]

Practically any Western European licensing system.

However where the point you've raised comes to the fore is that respect for individual human life takes a precedence over individual "needs" in a lot of Western European cultures. Their approach to life is different to our "me first" attitude, hence why political protest is so effective in those cultures.

A licence in NZ has no value. Neither does anyone else's life you or I share the road with.

In any respect that matters regarding driving behaviour ours IS a Western European culture. A pre-70's one, true. But nonetheless... their driving is superior to ours? Their accident rate less? Have you ever driven in the any of those Western European roads? I think your taking the piss.

I think any difference in their aproach to life is more likely to be explained by the last 3 or 4 decades of changes in the way they, (and us) see the value of life in general. It's supersized. Fucking long but not a lot in it.

[Katman]

Improve driver attention....
Replace the air bag in the steering wheel with a big steel spike 100 mm long aimed at the drivers chest, fit it to all cars....that would improve driving standards in a flash.:innocent:



They should outlaw motorcycle helmets too. :shutup:

[bogan]

How many driver hours were clocked up on NZ roads last year?
And how many hours did it take before someone died?
How did that stack up compared to the other ways people choose to die?
Anyone?

Dunno about hours, but on a yearly basis, for 100 years behind the wheel you got a 1 in 82 chance of carking it in a crash, behind the bars this is 1 in 20. Figures are fairly approximate.

Not sure how this stacks up to other ways, but I have about a 1 in a bajillion chance of getting to 100 years of riding anyway :gob:

[James Deuce]

In any respect that matters regarding driving behaviour ours IS a Western European culture. A pre-70's one, true. But nonetheless... their driving is superior to ours? Their accident rate less? Have you ever driven in the any of those Western European roads? I think your taking the piss.

I think any difference in their aproach to life is more likely to be explained by the last 3 or 4 decades of changes in the way they, (and us) see the value of life in general. It's supersized. Fucking long but not a lot in it.

Yes I have driven there and it is infinitely preferable to driving in NZ. France, Italy and Switzerland. Better vehicle control, less aggro.

[Katman]

In any respect that matters regarding driving behaviour ours IS a Western European culture. A pre-70's one, true. But nonetheless... their driving is superior to ours? Their accident rate less? Have you ever driven in the any of those Western European roads? I think your taking the piss.



I've driven/ridden in many different countries around the world.

Would I consider NZ drivers/riders to be amongst the worst in the world?

Fuckin oath I would.

[LBD]

I've driven/ridden in many different countries around the world.

Would I consider NZ drivers/riders to be amongst the worst in the world?

Fuckin oath I would.

Among the worst in the world? Not by a along shot....Long way from the best in the world, but miles from the worst...

[James Deuce]

Among the worst in the world? Not by a along shot....Long way from the best in the world, but miles from the worst...

I rate them close to the worst OECD drivers.

[LBD]

I rate them close to the worst OECD drivers.

That is probably more accurate.....

[Ocean1]

Yes I have driven there and it is infinitely preferable to driving in NZ. France, Italy and Switzerland. Better vehicle control, less aggro.

Well at least there’s some definable qualities there. My experiences are slightly different, but it's possible I notice different qualities.


I've driven/ridden in many different countries around the world.

Would I consider NZ drivers/riders to be amongst the worst in the world?

Fuckin oath I would.


Among the worst in the world? Not by a along shot....Long way from the best in the world, but miles from the worst...


I rate them close to the worst OECD drivers.

Numbers, gentlemen. Without numbers you don’t have facts, what you’ve got in an opinion. Colourful as they are they’re useful only for entertainment purposes. Unless I’m profiling NZ motorcyclists.


Dunno about hours, but on a yearly basis, for 100 years behind the wheel you got a 1 in 82 chance of carking it in a crash...

So the actual numbers, (the ones that describe the risks of karking it whilst enjoying a modest fang) are fucking tiny. Not dramatically dissimilar to a number of other common tasks associated with a modern lifestyle.

Cheers.

[rastuscat]

Well, it looks like the best (only?) suggestion to date is to mandate better driver training.

Not sure what you want us Popo to do, as delivering training is not part of our employment. We do the enforcement, others who are better trained at it do the training. Sure, I'm no driving instructor.

One of my blokes (Popo bike-cop) has suggested that we focus exclusively on offences that incur demerits. He says demerits have a far greater coercive effect than fines.

What say you? Should we go for the demerit offences only?

[James Deuce]

Well, it looks like the best (only?) suggestion to date is to mandate better driver training.

Not sure what you want us Popo to do, as delivering training is not part of our employment. We do the enforcement, others who are better trained at it do the training. Sure, I'm no driving instructor.

One of my blokes (Popo bike-cop) has suggested that we focus exclusively on offences that incur demerits. He says demerits have a far greater coercive effect than fines.

What say you? Should we go for the demerit offences only?
In the current Political environment the Police can't do anything to "fix" NZer's driving habits. Greater demerits will only increase the quantity of disqualified drivers.

The "fix" needs to be moved from Politicians and enforcement agencies and onto the individual. You can't fix an attitude, an approach to life in general with punishment.

[rastuscat]

:( I'm much affeared that you're right. Sniffle.

Back to my donuts.

[LBD]

...Numbers, gentlemen. Without numbers you don’t have facts, what you’ve got in an opinion. Colourful as they are they’re useful only for entertainment purposes. Unless I’m profiling NZ motorcyclists.
Cheers.

Ocean 1....I don't give a shit about what you are doing.....Kateman, JD and self were having an opinion based discussion on driving standards around the world...WTFDYTYA butting in with critiscm of our opinions? Facts don't enter into it!

[Voltaire]

Well, it looks like the best (only?) suggestion to date is to mandate better driver training.

Not sure what you want us Popo to do, as delivering training is not part of our employment. We do the enforcement, others who are better trained at it do the training. Sure, I'm no driving instructor.

One of my blokes (Popo bike-cop) has suggested that we focus exclusively on offences that incur demerits. He says demerits have a far greater coercive effect than fines.

What say you? Should we go for the demerit offences only?

Enforce the 100kmph all the time, until no one has any money left and has to stay at home:innocent:

[rastuscat]

Enforce the 100kmph all the time, until no one has any money left and has to stay at home:innocent:

Let me know when Heidi Klum is in NZ. I'll fine her so much she has to stay at my place.

We can share the donuts.

Hold on, did I say share the donuts? Heidi who?

[Brian d marge]

Practically any Western European licensing system.

However where the point you've raised comes to the fore is that respect for individual human life takes a precedence over individual "needs" in a lot of Western European cultures. Their approach to life is different to our "me first" attitude, hence why political protest is so effective in those cultures.

A licence in NZ has no value. Neither does anyone else's life you or I share the road with.

You don't know how deep that hole you have uncovered is , Ive lived here ( Japan ) for 10 years , and I only understand 70 to 80 percent of how the society functions

the average Bruce wouldn't even begin to comprehend

even down to Language, we say MY pen is on the table , the japs , the pen is on the table , they rarely use the personal pronoun and reading the air is a sense of personal pride

Wa ,as in Stephen wa ... is used in Confucian countries like Japan, China and Korea, harmony is considered to exist when everyone in the group knows precisely his/her place in the hierarchy and behaves accordingly. In other words, when personal feelings are kept out of the equation, and everyone lets loyalty to the group override the yearning for fairness and personal happiness.

This sense, will be uncomprehending to pretty much most of western people but it is used in daily life here, and is a really pleasant way to live if I might say ....

Now try sitting at the traffic lights giving way to someone who wants to give way to you because they feel you might be inconvenienced by their actions

It takes a lot of patience

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Improve driver attention....
Replace the air bag in the steering wheel with a big steel spike 100 mm long aimed at the drivers chest, fit it to all cars....that would improve driving standards in a flash.:innocent:

If the Police think speed is the main problem why don't they restict the power to experience ratio.
Cars these days are so comfortable, quiet and easy to drive with loud stereos that the driver is in a world of his own....often miles away concentration wise.

Or drive round the place in a big white and blue car with lovely lights on , ..just drive around ,,, because as soon as the white and blue car pulls off to get donuts , the bad behavior returns ( almost instantly )

What we need is a whole lot of these blue and white cars , just driving round , giving a few warnings here and there , offering advice to bad drivers , being

A PUBLIC SERVICE

everyone all good , all happy ,

Stephen

Wishing shit would flow uphill since Adam was a lad

[shrub]

Whilst I appreciate the intent, this could never happen. The system insists you HAVE a licence before you can operate a vehicle.
The chicken and the egg will get sooo confused...

Maybe I didn't explain myself better. If learners had to keep a log book to record their driving/riding experience it might just cut the road toll.

I suspect a major part of the higher holiday/long weekend road toll is people driving in conditions they're not experienced in. For example, all year Johnny Commodore drives around town with short stints on the motorway. Then comes the long weekend and he throws the family in the Commode and heads off to Wanaka, and drives at speeds he's not familiar with and on tight winding roads with gravel, road works etc.

[MSTRS]

... Should we go for the demerit offences only?

Which ones don't carry points?

[Pixie]

I've asked plenty of times before, but what is it you'd like the popos to do to improve drivers attention-deficit-disorder?

Retest every fuggin' driver on the road every 5 years using the German driving test.

Oh sorry,that does not bring in revenue and it loses votes,how silly of me to suggest it.

[Pixie]

The police were there doing what they were doing and their only goal was to reduce the carnage on our roads? :facepalm: REALLY? The cop said that and I just shook my head in disbelief! :crazy: It must be a case of cognitive dissonance if that deluded copper really thought that he was doing ANYTHING to reduce the deaths of motorcyclists on NZ roads!



Have you only just realised the NZ Police are thick as pig shit?
One of those deaths could have been prevented by training the cops in making safe changes of direction on the public highway.

[Kickaha]

Retest every fuggin' driver on the road every 5 years using the German driving test.

Oh sorry,that does not bring in revenue and it loses votes,how silly of me to suggest it.

None of which has anything to do with the police


Have you only just realised the NZ Police are thick as pig shit?

Not to much different than your average KB member then

[pritch]

But not "real" open face helmets and goggles. They're cool.

One advantage of open face helmets recently occurred to me as I was mouthing off at an idiot bitch driver in my full face helmet. The only person who could hear my rant was me. But if I had an open face helmet...:angry2:

[Ocean1]

One advantage of open face helmets recently occurred to me...

I have to report that, (contrary to expectations) the natural emanations resulting from a common cold are not necessarily better managed in an open faced helmet.

While one obviously doesn’t soil ones’ helmet to quite the same extent one finds that, (unless significant efforts are made with regard to aim) the snot instead returns at high velocity and gets applied to ones person.

[rastuscat]

Retest every fuggin' driver on the road every 5 years using the German driving test.

Oh sorry,that does not bring in revenue and it loses votes,how silly of me to suggest it.


Yet another example of something the Popo don't do.

What is it you want the Popo to do?

[rastuscat]

Which ones don't carry points?

No points for

Failing to wear a seatbelt
Driving through a red light

Yes, that's right, you get demerits for having a noisy exhaust, but not for going through a red light. How fricking bizarre.

Please don't try to find any common sense in the demerit system, coz there ain't any.

Obscured number plate? Points. No seatbelt? Nada points.

Bizarre.

[rastuscat]

What we need is a whole lot of these blue and white cars , just driving round , giving a few warnings here and there , offering advice to bad drivers , being

A PUBLIC SERVICE

everyone all good , all happy ,

Stephen

Wishing shit would flow uphill since Adam was a lad

Yo Brian. Just to clarify. You want to pay me a salary to drive around and be nice to people?

Sure, we'd win a popularity contest, but would it really cause a change to bad driving? Would there be less crashes?

Can I choose the car? I'd like a nice Euro one thanks, and happy to have it blue and white.

[Dare]

Yo Brian. Just to clarify. You want to pay me a salary to drive around and be nice to people?

Sure, we'd win a popularity contest, but would it really cause a change to bad driving? Would there be less crashes?

Can I choose the car? I'd like a nice Euro one thanks, and happy to have it blue and white.

Just wait until people get used to blue and whites around all the time then nail them with a fine when they go back to their old ways?
Or put HD cameras at every major intersection in every major city..

[Ocean1]

Yo Brian. Just to clarify. You want to pay me a salary to drive around and be nice to people?

Sure, we'd win a popularity contest, but would it really cause a change to bad driving? Would there be less crashes?

How do you find the opposite policy set works?


Bizarre.

Not the most original description of the current system. Can’t argue with it.

As a matter of interest; (and related to your earlier question re police activities) what should attract points deductions and what should be a straight fine?

I can’t remember what the rational was behind the points system… actually, I can, in spite of actively ignoring the pricks at the time. Was somat to do with rich pricks getting off relatively lightly compared to the great unwashed, yes?

Nevermind. Given the two forms of punishment, (lets not pretend it’s a corrective measure) what offences SHOULD each be applied for?

[MarkH]

I have to report that, (contrary to expectations) the natural emanations resulting from a common cold are not necessarily better managed in an open faced helmet.

While one obviously doesn’t soil ones’ helmet to quite the same extent one finds that, (unless significant efforts are made with regard to aim) the snot instead returns at high velocity and gets applied to ones person.

You need to time it right and when it is safe to do so turn your head and sneeze (sideways to the direction of travel). I have ridden with a horrible cold and I think that my Nolan flip-face helmet was a real god-send at that time. I was also able to stop and blow my nose (I wouldn't attempt that while riding) without having to remove my helmet.

[scumdog]

I have to report that, (contrary to expectations) the natural emanations resulting from a common cold are not necessarily better managed in an open faced helmet.

While one obviously doesn’t soil ones’ helmet to quite the same extent one finds that, (unless significant efforts are made with regard to aim) the snot instead returns at high velocity and gets applied to ones person.

Yup, gobbing while riding is a practised art....

[Brian d marge]

Yo Brian. Just to clarify. You want to pay me a salary to drive around and be nice to people?

Sure, we'd win a popularity contest, but would it really cause a change to bad driving? Would there be less crashes?

Can I choose the car? I'd like a nice Euro one thanks, and happy to have it blue and white.
Yup
just to clarify that

Yes

drive round be nice , ohh and help people ohhh oohh mentor them , and if all else fail whack em with a stick ( not sure about the last part that might need some revision )

as for the car, 225428

top of the range fella , all mod cons

Stephen

oh better answer the question , yes , there would be an improvement and yes there would be less crashes ...it has been shown to be so ...

[Spearfish]

Yup, gobbing while riding is a practised art....

so is the mid ride feed. (scroll along to 5:13)

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=13mordeth#p/u/257/1GJ9iEGPKQI

[98tls]

Missed it,thats the thing about aged motorcyclists we have mostly long since bothered watching TV.

[LBD]

Missed it,thats the thing about aged motorcyclists we have mostly long since bothered watching TV.

Cause we forget when our fav programs are on....

[puddytat]

All the ageing motorcyclist Ive seen lately have been going as fast as they fucking could 'round Ruapuna:woohoo::woohoo::rockon:

[98tls]

Cause we forget when our fav programs are on....

Close mate,my problem is i cant see the fucking thing.:facepalm: