Problem with inner tubes on FXR standard rims

[Damien_Toman]

Recently on the track I've had problems when the front tyre heated up. It felt like my wheel was loose, was buckled, or was going flat. Every time when I checked it on returning to the pits, it seemed fine. I pumped it up a little harder and carried on.

Well, during the 2-hour race at Mt Wellington, the tyre went flat as Detlev, my team mate, was racing. He did very well staying on the bike as in the photos I could see that it was deflating over a 4-lap period.

I took the tyre off on Sunday and the front inner tube had been creased inside the tyre and it wore through on the crease, enough to puncture the tube. See photo - click on it to enlarge. 225041

So, I'm now going tubeless. Anyone had any issues with Bridgestone GP125 YDC slicks on standard FXR150 rims without tubes?

Thanks

Damien

[hmurphy]

I had a mate doing exactly that and it was completely fine! He just made a new tubeless valve for the rim. Good luck!

[Damien_Toman]

Great. Thanks for the feedback. Can he still run fine at low pressures like 18 psi? Lower even if very cold or using wets? I'm looking forward to not having my recurring issues when the tyres heat up :).

Hope to see you at the TRRS or in 2011 at Kaitoke - awesome track.

[DMNTD]

Nice helmet there Damien...must've been a fine gentleman that sold you that sir!

[Henk]

Tuna has been running standard rims tubeless no problems, we ran them as well on Michelles bike. Wets tend to run at 20 instead of 18 anyway.

[RDjase]

I have got a slick and tube on the fxr front rim on Tylers bike. Its only done 1 meeting tho.
The original FXR tube was a horrible thing, oversized and had worn thru on the folds (wasnt leaking till I took the original front tyre off) The sizes on it are the same as the new replacment one but it is a much better fit

[Henk]

Conventional wisdom with tubes and the two hour seems to be that you fit new ones before the event.
Tubeless is the way to go, if only because you don't need to be nearly as careful changing tyres.

[Dutchee]

Tuna has been running standard rims tubeless no problems, we ran them as well on Michelles bike. Wets tend to run at 20 instead of 18 anyway.

Something tells me you might want to check with him on that.

[Damien_Toman]

Nice helmet there Damien...must've been a fine gentleman that sold you that sir!

HaHa! Love the joker! I like the helmet too :).

[Damien_Toman]

I have got a slick and tube on the fxr front rim on Tylers bike. Its only done 1 meeting tho.
The original FXR tube was a horrible thing, oversized and had worn thru on the folds (wasnt leaking till I took the original front tyre off) The sizes on it are the same as the new replacment one but it is a much better fit

Hi Jase. Yes the fit is probably the main issue. Anyway, if it all works without tubes I'll be very happy and I know the front end will feel better.

[Damien_Toman]

Henk, I've seen you flying in the wet at the slippery Mt Wellington track on well-used wet tyres! Scary and very impressive (I think you were lapping me at the time - I was on slicks). I don't understand why you would run higher tyre pressures with wets - though I know, from watching you, that it works. Is it all about profile? I know that lower pressures help with temperature.

[marsheng]

The best way to do use a tube is to use an under size one. That way it expands like a balloon inside the tire and therefor no creases.

[kel]

Damien, where did you get the valves to convert to tubeless? I run wets with tubes on standard rims, problem is I cant get the front to bead up properly. Have replaced the tube, lubed the tyre lip, beaten it with a big hammer, inflated to 90psi (to chicken to go any higher) but still cant get it to take properly. More importantly when are you going to put up some more 2hr photos!

[F5 Dave]

Bah, skinny rims, tubes, it all comes back.

Been there done that.

There are different quality of tubes. Buy decent brand. Get small size as Marsheng says. Replace every year & before a 2 hr.

This is a kart track thing esp as we run ~18psi & the tyres flex alarmingly (which generates the heat they need at such slow speeds). Never decided whether talcum powder was a good thing or not.

But either way tubeless got rid of any issue. Decent size rims aids fitting. Slicks on Smaller rims is a compromise & a bugger to fit.

90 PSI is super dangerous. Don't. I won't go past 60. Inner tubes less.


Leave tyre in sun. Use tyre soap or similar to fit. Fit with valve removed for a big hit of pressure quick. If it doesn't bead take it down & try again after debeading. Sometimes leaving it up will get it to stretch or pop in overnight.

With tubes you need to get the tyre seated around the valve first, quite often it hangs up on the valve rubber reinforcing.

Bike shops may have fittings for smaller rim holes. Patch Rubber here in wgtn has lots of sizes, or at least used to.

[jasonu]

Conventional wisdom with tubes and the two hour seems to be that you fit new ones before the event.
Tubeless is the way to go, if only because you don't need to be nearly as careful changing tyres.

Good advice. Last century a tube pucncture cost me and Darrin Gossamer a 2hr overall win on a 50.

[Buckets4Me]

Henk, I've seen you flying in the wet at the slippery Mt Wellington track on well-used wet tyres! Scary and very impressive (I think you were lapping me at the time - I was on slicks). I don't understand why you would run higher tyre pressures with wets - though I know, from watching you, that it works. Is it all about profile? I know that lower pressures help with temperature.

higher pressure on the wets as they are super sticky and dont need to heat up as much

[Damien_Toman]

higher pressure on the wets as they are super sticky and dont need to heat up as much

Thanks B4M. I hope to get some wets soon - racesupplies.co.nz don't have any in stock at present.

[Damien_Toman]

The best way to do use a tube is to use an under size one. That way it expands like a balloon inside the tire and therefor no creases.

That makes sense. Interestingly, the rear was fine - no creases.

[Damien_Toman]

Damien, where did you get the valves to convert to tubeless? I run wets with tubes on standard rims, problem is I cant get the front to bead up properly. Have replaced the tube, lubed the tyre lip, beaten it with a big hammer, inflated to 90psi (to chicken to go any higher) but still cant get it to take properly. More importantly when are you going to put up some more 2hr photos!

Hi Kel. I got the valves from Cycletreads $55 a set. I had to bore out the hole (drill press) and then the threaded piece did not reach far enough with the thick rims. I took the wheels to J&C Engineering Services (East Tamaki) and they charged me $75 to drill down with a 14mm flat-bottomed bit so that the nut on the inside of the rim could screw in - rip-off price.

I bought another set from Botany Honda (these guys are great) and the bolt-on valves they supplied were much cheaper (around $15 a set) and may not need the machining - I will use them for my wet wheels when I get wets.

I was not planning on uploading all the photos. I just picked out a selection and tweaked them hoping to have at least one of each rider. That took hours. We have over 4000 from the weekend. Many have said there are too many to look through when I upload them all. I also do not have the time to go through, rate, select and tweak the best ones - takes many, many, hours I assure you. Email me @xtra and I'll pick out the best ones of you and team-mate Aaron if you are interested and send you a link :).

[Damien_Toman]

Bah, skinny rims, tubes, it all comes back.

Been there done that.

There are different quality of tubes. Buy decent brand. Get small size as Marsheng says. Replace every year & before a 2 hr.

This is a kart track thing esp as we run ~18psi & the tyres flex alarmingly (which generates the heat they need at such slow speeds). Never decided whether talcum powder was a good thing or not.

But either way tubeless got rid of any issue. Decent size rims aids fitting. Slicks on Smaller rims is a compromise & a bugger to fit.

90 PSI is super dangerous. Don't. I won't go past 60. Inner tubes less.


Leave tyre in sun. Use tyre soap or similar to fit. Fit with valve removed for a big hit of pressure quick. If it doesn't bead take it down & try again after debeading. Sometimes leaving it up will get it to stretch or pop in overnight.

With tubes you need to get the tyre seated around the valve first, quite often it hangs up on the valve rubber reinforcing.

Bike shops may have fittings for smaller rim holes. Patch Rubber here in wgtn has lots of sizes, or at least used to.

Hi Dave. My slicks arrived today and I've had the rims sanded smooth at the edges, the valves fitted and all ready to go. This was my first go at fitting tubeless slicks to FXR wheels. The front tyre went on so easily I was glad I did it myself (I often take wheels to Botany Honda to fit new tyres). The rear tyre was much tighter and hard to put on without a helper to hold the tyre lever on one side. Eventually, with lots of soapy water, and many failed attempts, it went on.

My compressor failed to pump up the tyres. I went to a few petrol stations and eventually pumped the front up to the station max, 60 psi. The rear would not inflate. At home I then pumped the front up to 90psi! That seated it nicely :). The rear still won't inflate. I'll take it to Botany Honda unless someone has ideas about what I can do (your suggestions already noted, thanks).

[Henk]

get the tyre off the bead all the way round and sitting in the well of the wheel. Might need to try that a couple of times but I've only ever had to resort to tubes on tyres that were seriously second hand and had a weird kink in the bead.

[Damien_Toman]

get the tyre off the bead all the way round and sitting in the well of the wheel. Might need to try that a couple of times but I've only ever had to resort to tubes on tyres that were seriously second hand and had a weird kink in the bead.

Thanks Henk. Sounds promising. I'll try that as it was clearly very uneven - half the tyre on the bead, half in the well.

[Arronduke]

Damien,

Yes please on the link... cheers

Nice helmet ... you would NOT want to drop it!!!!!! :facepalm:

[xr-rider]

Hi Kel. I got the valves from Cycletreads $55 a set. I had to bore out the hole (drill press) and then the threaded piece did not reach far enough with the thick rims. I took the wheels to J&C Engineering Services (East Tamaki) and they charged me $75 to drill down with a 14mm flat-bottomed bit so that the nut on the inside of the rim could screw in - rip-off price.

I bought another set from Botany Honda (these guys are great) and the bolt-on valves they supplied were much cheaper (around $15 a set) and may not need the machining - I will use them for my wet wheels when I get wets.

I was not planning on uploading all the photos. I just picked out a selection and tweaked them hoping to have at least one of each rider. That took hours. We have over 4000 from the weekend. Many have said there are too many to look through when I upload them all. I also do not have the time to go through, rate, select and tweak the best ones - takes many, many, hours I assure you. Email me @xtra and I'll pick out the best ones of you and team-mate Aaron if you are interested and send you a link :).

$55 for a pair of valves. go to a car tire shop and it should cost $20 at the max

[Damien_Toman]

Yes, only $15 at Botany Honda as I mention later in the post. The $55 ones are alloy, fancy blue and angled. They were the first ones I found. XR's are great. I have an old XR400 in ChCh for trail rides :).

[Damien_Toman]

Damien,

Yes please on the link... cheers

Nice helmet ... you would NOT want to drop it!!!!!! :facepalm:

Hi Aaron. I need to go through all the 2-hour photos and pick your team shots out, then convert them to small jpeg then upload them and only then can I send the link :). It will be done - maybe not tonight.

Yes, dropping the new lid on the first day was not good - lucky I was not wearing it!

[Damien_Toman]

Photos of the fancy tubeless valves and new GP125 YDC slicks :). The $15 Botany Honda valves are probably better - I just found these blue Cycletreads ones first.

[Damien_Toman]

After trying to inflate the tubeless rear again myself, I gave up and took it to Botany Honda. They also could not inflate it.

On the way back home, resigned to fitting a tube, I decided I'd call at Beaurepaires to see if they had any ideas. A big young guy there took to it confidently. Tried many times with no luck. He then inspected very carefully all the trye edges and used a tyre lever to straighten out some slight kinks caused by me when fitting. He succeeded in inflating it!

It is now sitting at 85psi and seated perfectly. I'll let it down a bit tommorow and the rest at Hampton Downs. Tubeless, I am :).

[RDjase]

It is now sitting at 85psi and seated perfectly. I'll let it down a bit tommorow and the rest at Hampton Downs. Tubeless, I am :).

The info sticker says 57psi max (thats what the YCX front slick I have got for my TZR says) . Let 30psi out and then let it down to 22ish in the morning

[Damien_Toman]

The info sticker says 57psi max (thats what the YCX front slick I have got for my TZR says) . Let 30psi out and then let it down to 22ish in the morning

Hi Jase, yes, mine says 57 psi max as well, it also says you need to do 100 miles to run in the tyre :). Bet you didn't do that? :). I'll leave it at 85 psi overnight and let it down gradually tomorrow. It'll be fine...... Thanks for your concern.

[RDjase]

Hi Jase, yes, mine says 57 psi max as well, it also says you need to do 100 miles to run in the tyre :). Bet you didn't do that? :). I'll leave it at 85 psi overnight and let it down gradually tomorrow. It'll be fine...... Thanks for your concern.

I saw the 100 miles for scrubing in, 215 odd laps at Roy Hill, Maybe not....

I got a medium front for my TZR250 and will by pairs of used softs and just use the rear on the TZR (will have a RZ350 engine in it at some stage in the future) and have spare fronts for bucket use. The rims on this TZR (88 1KT/2XT) are 2.75 front and 3.5 rear.

[Damien_Toman]

I plan to make a start on my RD over the holidays :).

[RDjase]

I plan to make a start on my RD over the holidays :).

COOL !

There are a few goodys here, good pricing too, and most parts are in stock in Tauranga

http://www.twostrokeshop.com/

http://www.twostrokeshop.com/ignitech_race.htm

Hows the Slick looking? Have you put soapy water around the bead to check for slow leaks

[Damien_Toman]

COOL !

There are a few goodys here, good pricing too, and most parts are in stock in Tauranga

http://www.twostrokeshop.com/

http://www.twostrokeshop.com/ignitech_race.htm

Hows the Slick looking? Have you put soapy water around the bead to check for slow leaks

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out. No, I haven't checked for leaks. Sounds like a good tip, thanks. The new slicks look great and I've balanced the wheels myself so they're spot on :). My front end should feel much better now - the creased inner tube made it unpredictable when hot.

[marsheng]

Another option is pop the tire onto the rim, then deflate the tube completely. Bounce the rim on the tire right around 720 degrees. This gives the tube time to settle in the tire and then repressurize.