When are the Courts going to start backing the Police?

[Edbear]

This is almost a daily occurance now! When are the courts going to start hammering these idiots and backing the cops up who are getting heartily sick, (literally!), of scraping dead bodies up in plastic bags! :angry:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10661615

[Scuba_Steve]

This is almost a daily occurance now! When are the courts going to start hammering these idiots and backing the cops up who are getting heartily sick, (literally!), of scraping dead bodies up in plastic bags! :angry:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10661615

courts already back da cops. if you walk into court & theres a cop there your already "guilty" before anything has been said.
As for the article I would say justice is served, unlike court good luck finding any justice there.

[boman]

I do not think it will ever happen. The courts are far too constrained, by our soft PC laws. It is about time, that they were able to adopt an eye for an eye mentality. You fuck up someone’s life, and then the courts can fuck up yours.

I read an interesting letter in the herald the other week. Someone’s friend was in Hospital following an assault. He said that he had to pay for parking, whilst the Perpetrator, of the crime, was languishing in Mt Eden. His friends could go and see him for free.

The letter gave quite a few surprising examples that I cannot remember. But that was one of them.

[marty]

Like this loser? He should never get out.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/assault-and-homicide/news/article.cfm?c_id=124&objectid=10691793

but more likely he'll end up like:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/assault-and-homicide/news/article.cfm?c_id=124&objectid=10686479

[scumdog]

Like this loser? He should never get out.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/assault-and-homicide/news/article.cfm?c_id=124&objectid=10691793



Not many things move me to a mixture of tears and rage but that one has, been following it and was surprised they managed to nail him with murder - seeing as NZ Courts seem to be ccupied by PC Pollyanna pussies judging by the normal outcomes..

[SMOKEU]

What a muppet, killing yourself while trying to do a runner.

[boman]

Not many things move me to a mixture of tears and rage but that one has, been following it and was surprised they managed to nail him with murder - seeing as NZ Courts seem to be ccupied by PC Pollyanna pussies judging by the normal outcomes..

Whilst the Conviction, may fit the crime. The person responsible, will only get a few years, all expensis paid holiday in one of our prisons. IIRC 11 years minimum non parole period, is the minimum sentence the courts can apply.
And with nothing to lose, he will probably appeal the sentence. All it will take is an appeal judge to deem that intent was not proven, or find fult in the Police's case, and the sentence wiil be reduced to Manslaughter. Which carries a much tamer sentence.

But you will know all this....

[ellipsis]

Not many things move me to a mixture of tears and rage but that one has,

....and a deep sadness that this shit goes on in our midst....

[MIXONE]

If ever anybody deserved the phrase "Burn him" it was that wanker.I hope he gets raped repeatedly in jail.

[Scuba_Steve]

Whilst the Conviction, may fit the crime. The person responsible, will only get a few years, all expensis paid holiday in one of our prisons. IIRC 11 years minimum non parole period, is the minimum sentence the courts can apply.
And with nothing to lose, he will probably appeal the sentence. All it will take is an appeal judge to deem that intent was not proven, or find fult in the Police's case, and the sentence wiil be reduced to Manslaughter. Which carries a much tamer sentence.

But you will know all this....

Well thats it isn't it the whole systems fucked. 1st change I would make is prisons, if people bitched about the shipping containers they're gonna have a fucking spazm at "tent city" just like the US state complete with bright pink uniforms no more 4 star accommodation for NZ's worst they will get what they deserve, food will be just as good plain, boring & cheap.

[Littleman]

This is almost a daily occurance now! When are the courts going to start hammering these idiots and backing the cops up who are getting heartily sick, (literally!), of scraping dead bodies up in plastic bags! :angry:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10661615

To answer your question Edbear, the judiciary are a rather insular bunch of self serving upper class academic snobs who have wealth that protect them from everyday experiences that the average individual faces - lacking empathy.

Further, the problems that come with precedence and being bound by previously ignorant 'learned' colleagues/courts descisions - lacking balls.

Just to name a few.

[Hans]

This is almost a daily occurance now! When are the courts going to start hammering these idiots and backing the cops up who are getting heartily sick, (literally!), of scraping dead bodies up in plastic bags! :angry:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10661615

With all due respect, you do realise that the courts' role has nothing to do with backing up the cops?

[Edbear]

With all due respect, you do realise that the courts' role has nothing to do with backing up the cops?

Well, while you may be strictly correct, the courts are receiving the scumbags in there courtesy of the Police who catch the ones that live, only to tell them off and say "Don't do that again!" The Cops are getting fed up with the slap on the wrist approach which makes their job harder and messier and frankly, discouraging.

[SPman]

....... no more 4 star accommodation for NZ's worst they will get what they deserve, food will be just as good plain, boring & cheap.
If you think prison is 4 star accomodation, you must have pretty low expectancy in your life. I pity you!

[Edbear]

TPTB are getting a bit fed up, so maybe things will change. How about automatic crushing of the car if it is owned by the driver or the driver is driving with the approval of the owner? This should be on first offence!

http://clearnet.co.nz/news-story.html?national~800517

[Scuba_Steve]

If you think prison is 4 star accomodation, you must have pretty low expectancy in your life. I pity you!

Well maybee not 4-star but our prisons are quite decent better than most these people would have if in their own home


TPTB are getting a bit fed up, so maybe things will change. How about automatic crushing of the car if it is owned by the driver or the driver is driving with the approval of the owner? This should be on first offence!


I thought this was why people were running more, fear of 'Crusher Collins' crushing their vehicle at least by running they have some chance of keeping their car (in their mind anyways). I know I'd be more likely to make a panic decision to run if my vehicle was up for crushing. (tho for shits n giggles I'd probably do the slowest police case ever)

[Edbear]

Well maybee not 4-star but our prisons are quite decent better than most these people would have if in their own home



I thought this was why people were running more, fear of 'Crusher Collins' crushing their vehicle at least by running they have some chance of keeping their car (in their mind anyways). I know I'd be more likely to make a panic decision to run if my vehicle was up for crushing. (tho for shits n giggles I'd probably do the slowest police case ever)

No, no, I said crushing for running. Make it not worth running and it may make a difference. If they stop, no threat of crushing, if they run, automatic crushing.

[Banditbandit]

All it will take is an appeal judge to deem that intent was not proven, or find fult in the Police's case, and the sentence wiil be reduced to Manslaughter. Which carries a much tamer sentence.

But you will know all this....

I'm sorry - but the difference between the sentence for Manslaughter and for Murder is that Murder has a compulsory Minimum of 10 years with no parole - while Manslaughter has no set minimum ... people convicted of Manslaughter can be sentenced to life in prison - with an extended parole period

[Scuba_Steve]

No, no, I said crushing for running. Make it not worth running and it may make a difference. If they stop, no threat of crushing, if they run, automatic crushing.

oh ok your talking bout reversing current crushing laws & making it just if you run? that would probably work but only when the cars not stolen but then stolen cars are usually gonna run regardless. So I can only see that being a slight improvement no real down side... I like the idea :yes:

[Edbear]

oh ok your talking bout reversing current crushing laws & making it just if you run? that would probably work but only when the cars not stolen but then stolen cars are usually gonna run regardless. So I can only see that being a slight improvement no real down side... I like the idea :yes:

I wouldn't want stolen cars crushed, only if owned by the driver or being driven with the owner's approval when the driver is unlicensed as is the usual case. Automatic 28 days in jail too for running would hurt!

[avgas]

Like this loser? He should never get out.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/assault-and-homicide/news/article.cfm?c_id=124&objectid=10691793
The conservative side of me want him dead - not to consume another breath of our oxygen.
The other side of me want him to be tortured, and die a thousand deaths before he is allowed to pass over.

No side of me wants him locked away.

[avgas]

If you think prison is 4 star accomodation, you must have pretty low expectancy in your life. I pity you!
Ok your right.
Its more like a 4 star hotel you can wash down with a hose.

[avgas]

What a muppet, killing yourself while trying to do a runner.
People are dying to get away from the cops these days.

[NighthawkNZ]

Man go away for the weekend and all hell breaks loose on the the news... :shit: Read this and went through just about every emotion possible in a split second. What kind of society are we living in today... a fucked up one thats for sure... :angry: Ashamed to call myself human when you have animals like that called themself human... :facepalm:

[Genestho]

We are constrained by precedents set of laws and previously weak sentences, based on quieter and gentle times in our history, for example, the maximum time for drink driving causing death, about to be updated hasn't been since the 1960's.

Although things are changing ever so slightly - I'm told, somewhere along the line a certain female Judge set precendent over a few cases at 2 years, for the average sentence. Judges are required to be consistant although they can be creative.

It's possibly not going to happen that vehicular manslaughter would come in - in the near future, as the the whole sentencing structure regarding driving penalties would have to be revised and re-worked.

But we have been, and are seeing it right across the board for everything.

Factors considered at sentencing are diminished responsibility, mitigating circumstances, hardship, restorative justice/remorse - a victims right, early pleading of guilt, there's the wet bus ticket.

Add that to a shortage of prison space and every other alternate option possible is looked at.

Crazy that people should have to push so hard.

As far as crushing, I always thought that was a waste of money, it costs us to do this and smashing a perfectly good vehicle seems a waste, at least with auctioning - the money's recycled.

[Banditbandit]

There have already been a few (I'll admit not that many) people convicted of manslaughter following road deaths ... there does not need to be a change in legislation for that to happen - just a change in the police and what they charge people with ...

[scumdog]

There have already been a few (I'll admit not that many) people convicted of manslaughter following road deaths ... there does not need to be a change in legislation for that to happen - just a change in the police and what they charge people with ...

Ah..wrong.

It's Judges needing to convict on the charge - no use charging the person with manslaughter if you can't get a conviction on same, is there??

And up until recently that's what the sticking point has been.

[Genestho]

There have already been a few (I'll admit not that many) people convicted of manslaughter following road deaths ... there does not need to be a change in legislation for that to happen - just a change in the police and what they charge people with ...

I am aware of the few that have been charged with manslaughter, it's not a change (well, not counting re-working the other driver penalties - is that a bad thing? I don't know, but of course a big job regardless and on top of what has been done already, I'd be surprised if it did get through) but an addition recognising the vehicle as a weapon under the Land Transport Act, when driven by those who have been warned of the consequences at each previous conviction but elect to continue anway..and then kill.

So I've suggested mandatory for serious recidivst drink drivers

It has been previously discussed under the current bill going through parliament due for next reading 16th December.

As SD says, it's been extremely hard for Police to charge for manslaughter and gain a successful conviction. :)

[Swoop]

Well thats it isn't it the whole systems fucked. 1st change I would make is prisons, if people bitched about the shipping containers they're gonna have a fucking spazm at "tent city" just like the US state complete with bright pink uniforms no more 4 star accommodation for NZ's worst they will get what they deserve, food will be just as good plain, boring & cheap.
What is with the perpetual moaning about "2 prisoners to a cell" in the jails? Tent cities would be good if located in Waiouru or Twizel!
If using shipping containers, I'm sure we could get customs to "fumigate" them of the worst scum, like mentioned previously in the thread.

Well maybee not 4-star but our prisons are quite decent better than most these people would have if in their own home
In-cell SKY TV for one thing. I don't have sky tv, but the prisoners do.

[admenk]

I don't have sky tv, but the prisoners do.

You're not missing much....

[Scuba_Steve]

In-cell SKY TV for one thing. I don't have sky tv, but the prisoners do.

You probably don't have under-floor heating either right? They do.

[admenk]

You probably don't have under-floor heating either right? They do.

Or a free proctoscopy every time you bend over to pick up the soap in the shower.

[avgas]

You probably don't have under-floor heating either right? They do.
Gotta have somewhere to pump the sewage. Why not back into their rooms.

[Edbear]

...As far as crushing, I always thought that was a waste of money, it costs us to do this and smashing a perfectly good vehicle seems a waste, at least with auctioning - the money's recycled.

May have a good point, though most of the runner's cars are unreg/Wof and illegally modified. And auctioning them off may see them bought by friends or parents to give back. But, I can see the attraction in gaining money for the public coffers. Maybe even spend it on driver ed. or contribute to ACC... :innocent:

We could stockpile a few at a time and have a public crushing ceremony with a couple of bigfoot trucks doing the honours... :yes:

I do think an automatic 28 day prison sentence would be a good deterrent too.