How simple or complex is your m/c?

[Bonez]

Personnally I think some of the "technology" thrown at m/c these days is overated. Your thoughts. Oh and what do you call a biker who has been on the vodka's all night thats fallan flat on his/her back on the floor?

[What?]

1/ I don't have a prob with the engine management system on the BMW - now that it's been replaced!!!! but in the cold light of day, plenty of bikes/cars/outboards have similar faults. And breaker points were always a pain.
2/ Would the answer be "Bonez", perchance?

[Bonez]

And breaker points were always a pain.
2/ Would the answer be "Bonez", perchance? I'm only on my second set of points on the 550 since I bought it in '86-70,000kms. :yes: Had a spare set "Just in case" for as long. 2. No not quite :brick:

[dangerous]

Personnally I think some of the "technology" thrown at m/c these days is overated. Your thoughts. Oh and what do you call a biker who has been on the vodka's all night thats fallan flat on his/her back on the floor?
well this one (pic below) is very 'techno' 11 sensers, serge tanks, injection, ECU etc and it was built in 82..... very hi tec for back then and very relible, the only prob was the wast gate gamming due to carbon build up but a easy fix was to ream the sucker out alowing more room for it to mive.

The VTR is carbed but with a ECU which can only make things more relible.... just a bit tricker to work on yaself... I'm all for 'tecno' but it is still fun working on the old :Punk:

1982 CX500 turbo
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11495

[NC]

Apparently, mines not that complex... "It's just a C*NT to work on"

[Motu]

I have no problem with the technology - I work on cars for a living and bikes have always been much simpler systems than what we get on cars - but I have a real issue with packaging,spending 2 hrs to access a simple service item is crazy.

[Lou Girardin]

It's one of the things I like about the Bandit. Oil/air cooling, screw/locknut valve adjustment, everything's easy to get at. The longest part of an oil change is draining the oil. I would like injection on it though, hopefully for '06.

[Biff]

Better fuel economy, less pollution, smoother ride, better brakes. I like technology.

[TonyB]

Mines pretty simple I guess. But as Motu say's, the packaging is a bit of a problem. To get at the spark plugs you either have to:

Take the side fairings off
drain the coolant system
disconnect the radiator and hinge it out of the way
somehow get at the plugs (havent tried it this way, may not be an accurate description)

or

Take the fuel tank off
Remove the air box
Take the coils out
Take the plugs out

The really fun part is that you have to have exactly the right length spark plug spanner, other wise you can't get at the ones underneath the frame spars.
I guess to make bikes light and compact, things have to be complicated.....but by modern standards my bike is huge and heavy...

[Juan]

MV F4....... again a twat to work on..... rear brake.... to bleed... remove most of the back of the bike to be able to top up the fluid!!!!! FFS...

Brutale.... better, but under waranty so not allowed to yet :niceone:

Fazer (FZ1) work on???? :whistle: It' a jap bike they go for ever :whistle:

[scumdog]

I have no problem with the technology - I work on cars for a living and bikes have always been much simpler systems than what we get on cars - but I have a real issue with packaging,spending 2 hrs to access a simple service item is crazy.

I'm with Motu on this one, no trouble with technology BUT do have an issue with the packaging.

That's why I like 'naked' bikes (from parking-up to removing filter and letting oil drain on my Sporty take less than 5 minutes, likewise the F100) and clear uncluttered engine bays.
More effort to change plugs/do oil-filter change on our 'new' '84 Laseratti than any of our other mechanical devices.

A lot of technology is 'fit-and-forget' but when it DOES need replacement? hoo-boy you pay for it then in $ and time plus if (for example) you ing. module dies you can't 'clean and adjust' to get you home.

[Pwalo]

My GS doesn't know what technology is. I think you chaps are right. The technology itself isn't a problem, more the fact that a motorbike has a very small gap to fit it all in!

Still there is something nice about working on an aircooled two valve per cylinder bike. Oh that's right I'm a bit lazier these days.

[Hitcher]

Technology? Don't know what you're talking about. PGM-FI, adjustable headlight beam angle, linked brakes, heated grips, trip computer, ambient temperature read-out, countdown to empty on reserve, licorice starter...

[vifferman]

HEAPS of technomonology on the VifFerraRi, but it's all good, and reliable. Too many acronyms though, with HISS, DCBS, PGMFI, HECS3, ECU, SSS, DOHC x 2, and a whole bunch of other 'buzzwords' like "metal composite cylinder sleeves", "pivotless twin-spar frame", "HMAS dampers", "three-stage inline proportional control valve", etc. etc.

But the nett result of all this is that there's not a lot of maintaining to do. The starter valves need balancing every so often, and like any other bike, the oil/filter need changing and the chain needs lubing, but otherwise there's not much to do. The ECU takes care of keeping things running right.

Like Motu said though, packaging is a problem, as my recent major disassembly to change a blown instrument bulb showed. And unlike the VTR, where the entire fairing could be removed by undoing 4 screws and 4 plugs, taking all the tupperware off involves lots of screws and clips. On the VTR, the oil and filter were accessible without removing anything, whereas half the fairing has to be dismantled on the VFR. Against that, chain adjustment is a snap, with the most difficult job being getting the tool kit out. Valve clearance checks are required only every 24,000 kms, and usually only the very first one (if any) requires any shim replacement. These are very reliable machines, due to all the advanced technology.

[bgd]

Based around a 1923 aircraft engine it can't be that complex. You just need to ignore the injection, engine management, abs and servo assisted brakes. Still years behind car technology, though.

[bugjuice]

I have helped work on some bikes that are a real mare to do anything with, but then look how much they're trying to cram into a small space..

I've had the farings off mine, and I actually think mine has gone for the more simplistic approach. Everything you don't need is hidden, everything you need is generally easyish to get at. Saying that, I'm sure it can be a bitch like every other some time or another

[eliot-ness]

Mine's not too difficult to work on. A few things, like removing back wheel, could be easier. First reaction to technology is that it's unnecessarily complicated, outside the scope of the average biker and bloody expensive to repair. Second thoughts after looking at grease free unbroken finger nails, unopened tool kit, oil free engine, electric starter, spin on oil filters, etc, and 8,000ks maintainance period. Bloody brilliant. Old bikes were o.k. easy and cheap to work on, reliable if you kept up with maintainance and within the abilities of most bikers, but drying out a magneto at 5am in winter was never my idea of fun. Nor was electrical failure on a country road at midnight. Bikes now are faster, safer, and more reliable thanks to Jap technology. Wouldn't want to turn the clock back.
Second question. It used to be called "PISSED"
------------------------------
Half the people you know are below average.

[Winston001]

I haven't owned many bikes over the years but the simplicity of my 20 yr old BMW still brings a smile to my face when I need to do something. The engineering design is brilliant. Most difficult task is changing the oil filter which either requires a hinged filter to get past the fairing, or move a piece of fairing.

Nothing wrong with technology but it does mean that with recent models, only authorised dealers with the right software can work on them.

[John]

Mines so complexed the bastard keeps breaking.

Mine has leaking tank injection and screwed bearing (brushes whatmyever) and new improved rust on the fork that broke another fork seal :D

EXCELLENT!
Who else likes to spend a crapload fixing your bastard *complex* bikes?

[Ixion]

The three I have at present are all pretty simple to work on, but they cover a good range of technogolly.

T500 , dead easy to work on , all there and naked. And no technonogically at all. Just a dead simple piston ported twosmoker, carbs and breaker points. Reliable as. And still turns in 50 odd bhp from 500cc. Not entirely convinced that we've actually made so much progress for all the complexity

Li'l ratty. Nice and easy to work on (how hard can a bikini faired single be ?). And not much techo there . CDI ignition and hydraulics but. I don't trust hydraulics.

Whale. Is actually not bad to work on, though some stuff you have to remove fairing bits. But that's quite easy , mostly just a couple of screws. Lots technomagical stuff though. Three letter acronyms all over . EFI CDI ABS it's a real alphabet soup. All very good so long as it keeps working , which it has to date. But I will shit myself iof anything ever goes wrong.

You can't beat two smokers for being nice and simple and turning in good hp/weight figures without a lot of high tech magic.

[Paul in NZ]

Moto Guzzi..

About as complicated as a rock and nearly as solid.

So simple even a hamfisted, dna deprived moron like me can work on it (once you have a copy of Guzziology and access to the interwebby thing)

Paul N

[vifferman]

T500 , dead easy to work on , all there and naked. And no technonogically at all. Just a dead simple piston ported twosmoker, carbs and breaker points. Reliable as.
Indeed.
I remember tuning the Elsinore: clean and gap the plug, use a cigarette paper to set the points opening, and adjust the mixture by turning the mixture screw so the pipe just started popping when decelerating. :yes: Almost sinful simplicity.

[Bonez]

Technology? , licorice starter... So you start it with your tongue? :rofl:

[dangerous]

Moto Guzzi..

About as complicated as a rock and nearly as solid.
Paul N
I second that.... 40min and I would have changed the diff, gear box and engine oils along with replacing the oil filter (no need to drop the sump on a 1100) and resetting the tappits (just have to remember that D= right & S= left) add another 15min to clean the air filter....... ohhhh and 10mins to stand there cursing the bloody silly sizes that the Iti's use (striped nuts/allans) and last of all 2mins to drink the beer while doing it all thats 1hr 7min's and the years service is done.

ps: and no fancy shit syn oils needed either 20/50 dino does it :niceone:

[DingDong]

Just another combustion engine, tech makes them run faster and that forces the manufacture to be error free, which makes them cost more... but no more reliable.
What a rip!

[Waylander]

Does it count if in order to change the oil filter you have to dismantle the rear brake pedel and part of the frame?

[speights_bud]

Brother do i love my B.O.S suzuki A100! connect wire thingy's between spark plug, coil and alternator. throw a switch in the middle and chuck out everything else! Still seems to go quite nicely... :Punk:

[Matt Bleck]

I'm with motu too. I like technology.

With out it we would probably still be riding 750 two strokes that don't want to stop.

But the packing could be better. Just to fill up the radiator I gotta take off the fairing!!

[Jeremy]

I don't think it can get much simpler than mine, though I suppose since it's got electric start that counts as semi complex, but really it couldn't get much simpler and still be legal.

[Motu]

The XLV750 was designed as a Paris/Dakar racer - they had 20mins in Park Ferme to do the days maintenance after riding all day.So it had shaft drive,that takes care of time consuming chain/sprocket changes,it had hydraulic tappets,strike that job out too,the oil filter was a spin on up high on the crankcase,no sweat to change,the air filter was on top of the tank...one screw,a half twist and it was out,pop another in,4 spark plugs on a V twin,but on each side of the head so easy to change.That's the sum total of the easy stuff - the wiring was a nightmare,pulling the headlamp off and then stuffing all the wires back in was like putting D tits into an A cup,but nowhere near as much fun,under the seat it was obvious why regulators and the twin CDI failed so often,you couldn't even see the things...although my later RF had the CDIs on the rear gaurd.

My XT400/600 is a throw back to a simpler age...except for doing anything to the stupid twin carbs.The DT230 is a ''simple'' two stroke....if you can find it under shrouds,shock resivours,boost bottles,helmholtz polips,power valve actuators etc,it's a prick to work on.

[Skyryder]

Oh and what do you call a biker who has been on the vodka's all night thats fallan flat on his/her back on the floor?

Well if it's a female she's be a Russian Rollet. Now if it's a guy he'd a be Rushin' to rollher. Ok I know it's a :puke: one but for off the the cuff.................?? Now what's the real answer??

Skyryder

[HDTboy]

Bikes are simple, wait till they start multiplexing the control units with fibre optic cables :D
But again, the packaging doesn't do them any favours

[WINJA]

I LIKE CARBS AND A CDI , NOTHING WRONG WITH KEEPING IT SIMPLE, I HAD A K2GSXR1000 AND A ZX9C1(98) CARBURATED AND THEY WERE DEAD EVEN UP TO 200KMH IN A RACE , BUT THE K2 ONLY HAS TO LOSE ONE INPUT TO STOP COMPLETELY , THE ZX9 STILL DOES 100KMH ON 2 CARBS, THE K2 WAS HARD TO TUNE UNLESS YOU HAVE COMPLEX AND EXPENSIVE TOOLS , I GOT THE ZX9 FUELING RIGHT WITH SOME WASHERS FROM DICKSMITH

[2_SL0]

The technology does not worry me in the slightest. Compared to other mechanical items, bikes are very simple.

[LB]

j
j
Mine are very simple L-twin engines, with no fairings to be removed. Probably the most complicated thing is the electrics.

However, I don't to much to them myself, leave that to my mechanic at the bike shop.

Bonez - what's the answer re the vodka/floor??????
j
j

[Bonez]

Now what's the real answer??
SkyryderNot yet :no:

[thehollowmen]

the DL650 has more stuff on the dash than my old car (1994 carona)

it is far too complex but that's ok, because I'm not that mechanically minded.

[dangerous]

the DL650 has more stuff on the dash than my old car (1994 carona)

it is far too complex but that's ok, because I'm not that mechanically minded.
Hey............ when did you move on up in the world then? congrads on the DL.... is that the Vstrom 650??? :niceone:

[XTC]

My bike is simpull.... bit like me.