Child abuse at its worst in good ole NZ

[Reckless]

I don't normally post this sorta thread but I couldn't belive what I was reading! WTF are things coming to?? :facepalm:

If the papers have got their facts right for once this is shockingly bloody aweful!!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10695022

Edit: Her fucking mother hit her so hard she broke bones in her own hands FFS!!

[p.dath]

Based only on the info presented; I hope they get a very long jail sentence. Very long.

[SMOKEU]

It's nothing new.

[raftn]

Fucking sickening.

[XxKiTtiExX]

Have to agree that its nothing new (not saying it in a smart way either). Welcome to New Zealands shame. Read the article earlier this morning and just couldn't believe it. Rather than wasting tax payers money on benefits or having them kept nice and safe in jail how about the money getting used for 2 bullets, and the rest to go toward a counselor for both children involved. Bastards.

[Madness]

Merry fucking Christmas, New Zealand.
:facepalm:

[Ronin]

Fucking sickening.

It is well past sickening. While I'm normaly of the "Toss them in jail and lose the key" camp, I feel these two repulsive individuals merit special treatment. General population in Jail for one with a polite request to the inmates to not kill them. Instead, visit upon them the worst that humanity has to offer in pain, degredation, suffering and above all, the complete and utter lack of hope. They deserve not one ounce of sympathy.

And while we are talking about this. Note they have been remanded on bail. For the love of all that is good, why?


Her parents have both been remanded on bail until next week when the issue of name suppression will be readdressed.

[XxKiTtiExX]

Yup Merry Fucking Christmas for sure.

Why should they get bail or have names suppressed? What a joke and a half.

[Juzz976]

Would be nice if someone would just beat them to death over the next month,

now we get to pay to keep em in prison and they'll be out in bugger all time anyways.

[scissorhands]

Michael Joseph Savage http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Michael_Joseph_Savage.jpg/225px-Michael_Joseph_Savage.jpg

would turn in his grave if he could see how his good deeds have turned to this.


The devil will make work for idle hands to do. Poor girl, hope she settles somewhere good

[Latte]

I hope the stories of "Prison Justice" for people that hurt kids hold some truth in this instance. The parents defintely needs to be made to understand what sort of pain they put their children through.

Of course that's assuming the courts manage to get them there.

[SMOKEU]

Bring back public flogging!

[MIXONE]

Bring back public flogging!

One of the rare things I agree with you on.

[scumdog]

At least we are 'best' in the world with SOMETHING...

[Paul in NZ]

No need to sink to their level of barbarisim. Just a quiet dignified execution and disposal at sea. Followed by a very detailed enquiry up and down their family tree to weed out anyothers and an even more detailed look as to how the fuck the 'authorities' ever gave this poor kid back to these animals without check ups.

Has anyone got any idea what we as bikers and citizens can do to help this poor kid? Fuck if I had another bedroom she could find a place in out whanau but surely we can do something????

[tri boy]

I struggle to imagine the agony that child has been through.
I can only hope that she can rebuild her trust in adults, and enjoy the rest of her life in the safety and love of decent guardians.

The thugs that have destroyed her confidence and understanding may be delivered to my home, where a blow torch and vice grips are waiting for them.

[hellokitty]

How can this child ever get over this? Seriously. Surely this will be with her forever.

[James Deuce]

What are "things coming to"?

It's ALWAYS been like this. It's just now you get to hear about it.

[Mom]

What are "things coming to"?

It's ALWAYS been like this. It's just now you get to hear about it.

I used to foster children. I was able to cope with large numbers of kids so I was always asked to take in families so the kids were not separated at a time of huge stress from them. I have 3 children myself.

I was at home one day and heard a news report that 3 children were in Starship with carbon monoxide poisoning after their mother had attempted to gas them in her car. I just knew I was going to get a call to take them, and I did. So I got 3 kids (10, 8 & 6) directly from Starship, I had them for 16 months, they were eventually returned to their mother :yes: This was the first time the family had come to the attention of CYPS.

I got a call one afternoon from my social worker asking if I would take 3 girls (8, 6 & 5) who had been neglected so badly they were eating dog food, and living amongst rubbish and shit (literally)of all sorts, both human and animal. They were bed wetters, one had some infected dog bites. They were coming to me with nothing but the clothes they stood in and I was warned that they were filthy dirty.

I went out and bought knickers, toothbrushes, hair brushes and rounded up some fresh clothes for these girls. I made an appointment for them at the doctors for the next morning, and sat back and waited for them. I have never in my life ever seen anything like these poor little kids, honestly they were in such a state. They all had 2 baths, one to soak some of the grub off them, the other to attempt to get them clean.

To cut a long story short, these kids could not recognize common food, I was asked "what's that?" by one of them. It was a potato :pinch: They had no idea how to use toilet paper, if they even managed to get to a toilet. The youngest had the physical development of an 18month old toddler on a 5 year olds body, she was not toilet trained, she could not speak properly, as in had no words because no one talked to her. I could go on, but I guess you may be getting the picture.

They were a white skinned family - white trash springs to mind, and they had a file a foot thick with CYPS. I was horrified and shocked that a mother could treat her kids so badly, they used to go through rubbish bins on the street, if I stopped to talk to anyone, looking for food. They would break open packets of food in the super market and scoff it down, they would steal money from school and bring it home for me and be genuinely shocked when I growled them. One day I got a call from the school wanting to know which one of the 2 oldest girls had a banana in her lunch as there had been a full scale brawl in the playground at lunchtime, my answer, neither of them.

This family had been reported to the authorities over and over, interventions were put in place, nothing worked. The mother was 23 years old, these kids had a couple of different fathers, i believe one of the fathers was an uncle. The grandmother had just had her 8 year old twins taken off her. Generational abuse defined. This family had never been heard about, and they were one of many that corssed my threshold. It is not new, and once you have been exposed to it, it is not shocking anymore, I could not tell you what I have seen.

[oldrider]

See! The anti smacking bill "really is working"! (only one of these cases this week)

I was so sickened by that I could barely continue to read it to the end!

Where the fuck are we heading to in this country? :facepalm:

[rwh]

I used to foster children.

...

It is not new, and once you have been exposed to it, it is not shocking anymore, I could not tell you what I have seen.

And yet, in a few years, once kids like these are old enough (physiologically) to have kids and start the next sorry generation, sympathy from many kiwibikers (and others, of course) will instantly cease, and their executions will be called for.

Even the mother that started this thread, horrific though her actions have been, deserves sympathy - she just has no clue about acceptable behaviour, and needs rehabilitation, not ridiculously harsh punishment. That would just reinforce in her mind that punishment is how you solve problems.

Richard

[yungatart]

Words fail me!
How very very sad....

[James Deuce]

Where the fuck are we heading to in this country? :facepalm:

Heading? We've been there since they started calling this place a "Colony".

[Mom]

Even the mother that started this thread, horrific though her actions have been, deserves sympathy - she just has no clue about acceptable behaviour, and needs rehabilitation, not ridiculously harsh punishment. That would just reinforce in her mind that punishment is how you solve problems.
Richard

Sad, but true. I was appalled when I met the mother and grandmother of these 3 girls, they needed to be taken into care themselves, so incredibly sad. The girls were all re-homed never to be returned to their family, but at 23 this woman was at the start of her child bearing years...

You know, they tested her, with simple daily tasks. She could not demonstrate how to make a healthy lunch, peanut butter sandwiches were beyond her, and could not show the tester how to cross the road safely. Her children had no hope with her. Sadly we were not permitted to know anything about the kids once they left our care, but I got a couple of follow up calls from their social worker letting me know how they were getting along.

[EJK]

Really disgusting.

[Owl]

That would just reinforce in her mind that punishment is how you solve problems.

Not if that mind contains a bullet!

[rwh]

Not if that mind contains a bullet!

That is true, of course.

I really, really don't like the idea of execution, but can see that there could be cases where somebody simply needs to be removed from society. However, whether that's done by life imprisonment or execution, it should be done in a sympathetic manner - pointing out to the person that there's no alternative - rather than as an act of revenge. And it should be an absolutely last resort.

I'm reminded of the silly movie "The Gods must be Crazy" in which the main character apologises profusely to the animal he's about to kill for food. That's the kind of attitude I like.

Richard

[rwh]

Sadly we were not permitted to know anything about the kids once they left our care

I was wondering if that was the case. It seems to me that means removing the only family they've ever had, which doesn't seem right. Who are they supposed to call on for support?

I suppose it's not the same thing as an adoption, though.

I guess there are also foster parents who aren't good at it either, and are better kept away from, but that's the same issue as with the natural parents; it shouldn't be done by default.

What's your view on that policy Mom?

Is there also a limit to the length of time they can stay with you?

Richard

[FROSTY]

Darn it thats just .Just --actually I'm lost for words.
To me its not about punishment now. Its about doing the best thats possible for that poor lil girl.

[JimO]

Even the mother that started this thread, horrific though her actions have been, deserves sympathy - she just has no clue about acceptable behaviour, and needs rehabilitation, not ridiculously harsh punishment. That would just reinforce in her mind that punishment is how you solve problems.

Richard

sterilisation would be a good start

[scumdog]

sterilisation would be a good start

Damn right!:woohoo:

Would save lives and tax-payers money down the track.:yes:

[JimO]

there must be 2 New Zealands, the one where i live i dont know anybody on a benefit, i own 2 houses one my 85 yo mother in law lives in rent free, i own 6 cars/4x4s, a 50k boat, a 20k caravan, 2 motorbikes, i come from a large family mum/dad and 6 kids, i had a poor education, left school in 1975 aged 15 and got a apprenticeship, my wife left school at 16 and worked in a warehouse, we were married at 20 and moved into our first house , started working for myself aged 26, never had a hand out from anyone, have 3 boys that have excelled at school, excelled at sport representing Otago in several sports, one boy representing NZ in Ireland, 2 of them going to uni next year. Obviously in the other NZ you blame the past 200 years for your failure, you beat your kids to death, you dont work your parents didnt work your children wont work, the state carrys you, what is the difference between my NZ and the other one...fucked if i know??

[Mom]

I was wondering if that was the case. It seems to me that means removing the only family they've ever had, which doesn't seem right. Who are they supposed to call on for support?

I suppose it's not the same thing as an adoption, though.

I guess there are also foster parents who aren't good at it either, and are better kept away from, but that's the same issue as with the natural parents; it shouldn't be done by default.

What's your view on that policy Mom?

Is there also a limit to the length of time they can stay with you?

Richard

At best children should not be removed from their family for any length of time. No matter what your Mommy is still your Mommy no matter what has happened. Nobody can replace her. Foster homes should only ever be a short term stay while things get sorted out at home, or other members of the family can step up and take over with support.

We never treated any kids that we fostered differently from our own. They got the same food, the same treats, the same everything. The money we got for looking after them all went on looking after them. There were some though that did not operate as we did and the kids were viewed as an income stream. Having said that they were in a better place than where they came from and were safe, the single most important thing to consider. I had to stop fostering, I got too frustrated with the lack of support for the kids, and the way the system worked. The needs of the children are paramount according to the mission statement of the then CYPS, in my experience that was not always the case. Oh sure it could be demonstrated that everything was being done with the kids best interests at heart, but being at the coal face caring for these kids it certainly did not appear that way to me. I can remember saying to one social worker, you cant arrange for their dad to take them to the airport, he is unreliable, he wont turn up, the kids are terrified he will let thm down, they dont want to go to him, they want us to take them...

They did not listen. The weekend before the kids were to leave he was to pick them up at a pre arranged place and have them for 3 days. We waited and waited and waited for him to turn up, he was a no show. Eventually I took them back home. We got a call from the social worker at 9:30pm saying he was there (20min drive for us) waiting for the kids. I told her tough luck they are in bed asleep and I am not waking them. It will have to be tomorrow now. They went septic, he went septic, but those kids got a decent uninterupted sleep.

[mattian]

A certificate of fitness should be applied for before people are allowed to have children. There should be an assesement of peoples circumstances before its granted.
Having children is a priviledge!! and not a right. We have people already living in poverty in ths country popping out kids like its going out of fashion and this is the kind of environment they grow up in.

[onearmedbandit]

At least we are 'best' in the world with SOMETHING...

Really? Since when?

[Ocean1]

Sadly we were not permitted to know anything about the kids once they left our care, but I got a couple of follow up calls from their social worker letting me know how they were getting along.

I struggle with the current foster homes ideals. I don't believe mommy is always the best mommy.

Two decades ago I asked someone senior in the NZFCF why they were leaving an organisation that was obviously their passion. She said that there were more parents wanting to adopt children in most countries in the western world than their were children available. She couldn't reconcile this with NZFCF policy, particularly as it was essentially defined by DSW.

On the basis of current available evidence I can't say I disagree with her.

[MSTRS]

sterilisation would be a good start
And just for a start...


No matter what your Mommy is still your Mommy no matter what has happened. Nobody can replace her.

Can't agree with that. Just as so many fathers are best described as sperm donors, there's little difference in a mother who abuses and neglects her kid/s, especially one that produced those 3 little kids you took on.


Foster homes should only ever be a short term stay while things get sorted out at home, or other members of the family can step up and take over with support.

Perhaps you're right re fostering, it's not always ideal, but when it comes to the state's predilection for placing these kids with family (costs less, eh)...I can't help thinking "I know that it's not always the whole family that like that, but this is the family that produced the abuser, quite possibly by abusing them when they were a kid, and/or failed to teach/instill any parenting skills "

[Mudfart]

there must be 2 New Zealands, the one where i live i dont know anybody on a benefit, i own 2 houses one my 85 yo mother in law lives in rent free, i own 6 cars/4x4s, a 50k boat, a 20k caravan, 2 motorbikes, i come from a large family mum/dad and 6 kids, i had a poor education, left school in 1975 aged 15 and got a apprenticeship, my wife left school at 16 and worked in a warehouse, we were married at 20 and moved into our first house , started working for myself aged 26, never had a hand out from anyone, have 3 boys that have excelled at school, excelled at sport representing Otago in several sports, one boy representing NZ in Ireland, 2 of them going to uni next year. Obviously in the other NZ you blame the past 200 years for your failure, you beat your kids to death, you dont work your parents didnt work your children wont work, the state carrys you, what is the difference between my NZ and the other one...fucked if i know??

unfortunately many NZers see our govt assistance programme dubbed SOLO by the "solo mums" as a way to collect a decent pay every week. the more kids you have, the more money the govt gives you.
You can see these people on benefit days walking out of bottle shops, supermarkets, bakeries or into gambling establishments, oh at about opening time.
usually accompanied by either one case of beer under each arm, or the "breadwinners", the children in tow, usually poorly clothed and looking damn sick.
the police look away.

[Mudfart]

as for the latest case, with the two years of beatings etc on the 9 and 7 y.o.
GIVE US THEIR NAMES. let them into the streets.
surely a professional qualified doctor can tell broken bones in both hands have come from hitting something, it should have been immediately reported to police, and CYFS.
although CYFS have failed big time on these kids, as there is supposed to be some hardcore monitoring going on, which obviously there wasn't.

[rainman]

No need to sink to their level of barbarisim. Just a quiet dignified execution and disposal at sea.

I'm a bleeding heart leftie greenie and I admit my first thought was that the appropriate response to this is public beheading. But perhaps once I have settled down I'll agree your suggestion's pretty good too.


Followed by a very detailed enquiry up and down their family tree to weed out anyothers...

Not with you on that, though.


I struggle to imagine the agony that child has been through.
I can only hope that she can rebuild her trust in adults, and enjoy the rest of her life in the safety and love of decent guardians.

We can only hope. Tough road to travel.


See! The anti smacking bill "really is working"!

You're better than that. These people have been abusing this poor kid for way longer than S59 has been repealed. Stop being a stupid bigot and scoring cheap points from this.


there must be 2 New Zealands

There are. It's part of the problem.

[Woodman]

And yet, in a few years, once kids like these are old enough (physiologically) to have kids and start the next sorry generation, sympathy from many kiwibikers (and others, of course) will instantly cease, and their executions will be called for.

Even the mother that started this thread, horrific though her actions have been, deserves sympathy - she just has no clue about acceptable behaviour, and needs rehabilitation, not ridiculously harsh punishment. That would just reinforce in her mind that punishment is how you solve problems.

Richard

This is where the problem gets worse.
The hard decision needs to be made to stop any more abuse happening by disabling the abusers. We need to get rid of them by a bullet or a key. This may sound barbaric, and it is, but it is less barbaric than letting the abuse continue.

[James Deuce]

I think JimO should change his login name to Marie Antoinette. Brioche is overrated BTW.

[Paul in NZ]

We never treated any kids that we fostered differently from our own. .

You are a bloody saint and should be excused paying income tax for 10 years.. Seriously - well done, I wish I had half your ability in this regard..

I guess its the oddness of the human condition that for every arsehole there is an angel... Sadly the arseholes breed faster...

[tri boy]

Ive dropped the "blow torch n pliers" theory.
That is sinking to the thugs level.
JimO is correct. Sterilisation is the way to go, but I would add a life time of community service.
They say a good soceity is judged by how it looks after its desperate citizens, rather than the comfortable ones.

[oldrider]

I'm a bleeding heart leftie greenie.

You're better than that. These people have been abusing this poor kid for way longer than S59 has been repealed. Stop being a stupid bigot and scoring cheap points from this.

Your opening self description explains your knee jerk reaction to my post!

The money, energy and time wasted* on that unnecessary bill could have been used to police and weed out these true abuse cases and rectify them!

All that was/is missing was/is the will to use the law and do something about it but that has been done to death!

*The money IMHO was wasted because the laws of the day were sufficient to handle cases of assault and abuse such as this one!

It's like the Labour (lefty) alliances stupid dangerous dog law, nothing has changed dangerous dogs abound and every now and then some one gets bitten or mauled!

Apart from all that, compliments of the season. :drinkup:

[rainman]

Your opening self description explains your knee jerk reaction to my post!

I'm really not an ideologue. Which you can probably figure out from the first point in my comment on this thread.

My reaction was a tad extreme though - stupid bigot was a bit uncalled for, sorry. But really, get over it already, the S59 repeal isn't the end of the world and the cause of all things evil and terrible... and it's also clearly not the issue here owing to the duration of the abuse.

Blaming everything you don't like on MMP and Sue Bradford is just a bit silly.


Apart from all that, compliments of the season. :drinkup:

Yep, you too... Looking forward to a bit of time off. Might even do some work on the bike.

[Woodman]

Your opening self description explains your knee jerk reaction to my post!

The money, energy and time wasted* on that unnecessary bill could have been used to police and weed out these true abuse cases and rectify them!

All that was/is missing was/is the will to use the law and do something about it but that has been done to death!

*The money IMHO was wasted because the laws of the day were sufficient to handle cases of assault and abuse such as this one!

It's like the Labour (lefty) alliances stupid dangerous dog law, nothing has changed dangerous dogs abound and every now and then some one gets bitten or mauled!

Apart from all that, compliments of the season. :drinkup:

Not to mention the war on P. Home detention for a woman convicted of dealing huge amounts of the stuff. The lawyers and judges and social workers are running this country.

[JimO]

from another site i frequent.........Re: CYPS give child back to monsters to be tortured
by Ganja » December 18th, 2010, 5:39 pm

I know the mothers sister very well and have been trying with her and the grandmother to get cyfs to step in.

I myself used to look after the 10 year old boy, he had been placed with his aunty and was doing well for 3 years with her. The wee girl was removed at birth and put into foster care, it came out that the foster parents were abusing her so the Aunty tried to get her placed into her care, cyfs knew better and put her back with the parents, they also took the boy who was 7 at the time and gave him back as he was "doing so well now"
We tried for months and months to get something done, the womans sister would go and remove the kids, to have them taken back to the parents as "they deserved a second chance"
Nana tried to get them into her care, but the father is an abusive man and took to them.
They were finally removed when the sisters and the nana went there and demanded the children, father got up and smacked the 15 year old cousin in the face and hit one of the aunties. Police were called by two people, I was one, as the young girl who was hit text me and said Help.

These people should have been never allowed to leave the hospital with a baby, every time she had one removed she had another. She is the scum of the earth, and has always been.
Her family have tried everything to get those kids taken, the police have been involved before, many times, however this time many people had decided if cyfs wont step in then we will.

The fault here lies with the Scum who say they are parents, but popped out 5 kids to abuse, the police for not acting on reports sooner and the main one is cyfs. I put in a long report on what I saw, The social worker asked me my views on the boy i looked after when aunty had him and promised he would never be put back in their care, then 6 months later did so.

The abuse reported is a tiny amount of the real picture and when I heard the other day how bad it is, I cried. I tried with the Aunty for 2 years to get these kids out, I even offered to be her back up caregiver so she could still work and take them all. But cyfs knew better than we did. They said she was doing well. The Aunty wasn't allowed to visit for a year as they trespassed her for trying to help the kids.
When the full story comes out, it will shock you even more.
Mother M. is part Maori Father S. is samoan. They should be locked up and not left out to be free. I dont think the little girl will ever be right again, in fact if some of what I know comes out, and the advise a cyfs social worker told her how to deal with some of the abuse, I guarantee you will throw up.

[firefighter]

I hope the stories of "Prison Justice" for people that hurt kids hold some truth in every instance.

Fixed that up for ya.

[Ocean1]

Blaming everything you don't like on MMP and Sue Bradford is right on the money.

Hideous syntax error, there...

Fixed.

[Paul in NZ]

Oh god.... This gets worse eh?

Look - KB is a community of sorts, surely we can do something? Anything? Fuck - can I set up a bank acct or something, send toys?

[Genestho]

Oh god.... This gets worse eh?

Look - KB is a community of sorts, surely we can do something? Anything? Fuck - can I set up a bank acct or something, send toys?

Worse? It frequently does and even then the public are not always privy to it all.

Reporter - Elizabeth Binning from the Herald, has suggested contacting Henderson police station to find out how to send things, they're the investigating police, but maybe a representative should call from KB, rather than a few hundred randoms so we don't get in the way or hold them up.

Be nice to show this wee babe that despite what's happened, the world's not always an evil place and people do care. It would be wise to make sure whatever's passed on, goes exactly to where it should.

[rwh]

there must be 2 New Zealands, the one where i live i dont know anybody on a benefit, i own 2 houses one my 85 yo mother in law lives in rent free, i own 6 cars/4x4s, a 50k boat, a 20k caravan, 2 motorbikes, i come from a large family mum/dad and 6 kids, i had a poor education, left school in 1975 aged 15 and got a apprenticeship, my wife left school at 16 and worked in a warehouse, we were married at 20 and moved into our first house , started working for myself aged 26, never had a hand out from anyone, have 3 boys that have excelled at school, excelled at sport representing Otago in several sports, one boy representing NZ in Ireland, 2 of them going to uni next year. Obviously in the other NZ you blame the past 200 years for your failure, you beat your kids to death, you dont work your parents didnt work your children wont work, the state carrys you, what is the difference between my NZ and the other one...fucked if i know??

Unfortunately I think it's unrealistic to judge everyone by your standards. Sure there will always be exceptionally talented (and/or ruthless, in some cases) people who can make a wonderful life out of not much, but they're a very small minority. Most of us will stay within the same sort of income level and social group in which we were brought up. A few unfortunates will slide down as well.

Richard

[Ladydragon]

I think it just absoloutly horrible how the mother and father have treated their daughter I have a neice and nephew who are adopted and if I must say myself very special.

My brother and sister in law know people that have been wanting to adopt a child/baby for years and it hasn't happened yet for them.When there friends read something like this artical you could amagine what they think.If you are able to have a child they should treat them so good they are very precsise.

Not do what those parent did.

[Katman]

Oh god.... This gets worse eh?

Look - KB is a community of sorts, surely we can do something? Anything? Fuck - can I set up a bank acct or something, send toys?

Paul, take a step back and draw a few deep breaths.

This case of child abuse won't be the last and I guarantee there are plenty of others happening right at this very moment that you might never get to hear about.

People all too often end up blowing their brains out when they get too emotionally involved in a quagmire that rhyme nor reason can ever be fashioned from.

[JimO]

Unfortunately I think it's unrealistic to judge everyone by your standards. Sure there will always be exceptionally talented (and/or ruthless, in some cases) people who can make a wonderful life out of not much, but they're a very small minority. Most of us will stay within the same sort of income level and social group in which we were brought up. A few unfortunates will slide down as well.

Richard

im neither exceptionally talented or ruthless,. just worked hard, set goals etc the underclass that beats their kids etc obviously cant be helped by chucking money at them because we have proof that that doesnt work perhaps they should be eradicated

[scumdog]

im neither exceptionally talented or ruthless,. just worked hard, set goals etc the underclass that beats their kids etc obviously cant be helped by chucking money at them because we have proof that that doesnt work perhaps they should be eradicated


A bit like you JimO, started with nothing, got no free Gov't hand-outs (or any handouts).

Worked long hours, saved, spent, saved, spent, got in hock to a bank, spent, saved..yadda-yadd-yada.

No talent, not ruthless..

[reggie1198]

Have to agree that its nothing new (not saying it in a smart way either). Welcome to New Zealands shame. Read the article earlier this morning and just couldn't believe it. Rather than wasting tax payers money on benefits or having them kept nice and safe in jail how about the money getting used for 2 bullets, and the rest to go toward a counselor for both children involved. Bastards.

I'll donate the bullets, three each should do (that's two gut shots each, then one in the head a couple of days later).

[Reckless]

from another site i frequent.........Re: CYPS give child back to monsters to be tortured
by Ganja » December 18th, 2010, 5:39 pm

I know the mothers sister very well and have been trying with her and the grandmother to get cyfs to step in. ................

I dont think the little girl will ever be right again Thats really sad poor kid!

Thanks for the update/additional info Jimo.

To make this case seem not so bad by stating there are other cases just as bad is no excuse in my mind. In this thread we are talking about this case and its circumstances. Because its not alone changes nothing in my mind it just makes it worse!
If what jimo posted is accurate I wonder if CYFS can ever be charged with child abuse? But there is probably a lot more involved than we can speculate on so I won't make any wild statements. Its just a very sad state of affairs by the parents and the system etc.

[Paul in NZ]

Paul, take a step back and draw a few deep breaths..

Oh dont stress, I'm not going to top myself over this but the point is that decent people have to stand up and say that this isnt right in someway without resorting to lynch mobs, tempting as that is.

I'm just buggered if I know how...

[jasonu]

Parents out on bail WTF???

[yungatart]

A 5 y/o girl died early this morning in Napier...a 24 y/o male at the address has been charged with assault.

Merry f***** Christmas

[firefighter]

A 5 y/o girl died early this morning in Napier...a 24 y/o male at the address has been charged with assault.

Merry f***** Christmas

Apparently there's some social benefit in keeping him alive.......N.Zers say so because we'd rather keep him alive.

Stoopid cuntry, why is N.Z so damn left wing? And where are these left-wingers? I have'nt personally met one who admits to being one.....

[James Deuce]

I'd rather live in a country that treats ALL its citizens well than one that threatens to submit to radical, reactionary responses to emotive subjects, about which we seldom know all the details or all the answers.

Like all threads of its ilk a vocal minority purport to know all the answers, but are seldom seen or heard of when friends are in trouble, let alone despised denizens of an underclass created by self-interest and mindless adherence to politicised "solutions" rather than actively encouraging people to enhance your next-door neighbour's life. That's where, I believe, we have to start. Us, not "them". "They" don't give a fuck so long as you consume and spend.

What I do know is that the same people ranting about the "scumbags" harming and killing their children will making the same comments in 20 years time about the abused children (obviously not the dead ones) going on to live the same lifestyle as their parents and exhibiting the same level of sometimes violent dysfunction and disaffection and they will be saying that the things that happened to them are no excuse for their appalling behaviour.

Narrow, small-minded, vindictive and shallow is not a long term cultural choice. It's led us to the point where we are now where everyone has an opinion and no one has the time to positively effect change in anyone else's life.

I see a LOT of damaged people reaching out to others. I don't see many comfortably well-off, I',m all right Jack types doing the same.

[Ocean1]

I see a LOT of damaged people reaching out to others. I don't see many comfortably well-off, I',m all right Jack types doing the same.

Not many people feel very well off these days.

And you're right, I don't have much time. But I've offered help at an individual level, (the level I can afford) and been roundly abused by the agents whos job it is to provide that help.

Far, far too many systemic holes in our social support policies.

I don't actually expect 100% of our society to meet what most of us believe is acceptable behavior. At the fringes some of that behavior is unsavory, and not all of those who behave badly can be fixed.

All I'd wish is that recidivist seriously bad behavior it's discouraged. Not too much to ask is it? that seriously bad behavior isn't provided with endless oportunities to cause further damage?

[crazyhorse]

Bloody sad thing to happen.........:sick:

[Genestho]

"CYF was one of a number of agencies and individuals working with the girl's family - including a family support agency, a registered ACC counsellor, a court-appointed psychologist, the child's court-appointed lawyer and a child and youth mental health service.

"Sadly, the primary focus of most of this professional engagement was not based on concerns she was at risk in her home," Mackenzie said.

"Rather it was to help the young girl and her family to work through the sexual abuse she had suffered while previously living with close family caregivers. "Along with other professionals, we believed the family was genuinely engaged in achieving that goal."

"It appears we have been terribly misled and this has had tragic consequences. It is now emerging that a number of people deliberately concealed ongoing abuse in the home."
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4484759/CYF-ignored-teachers-abuse-concerns

[MSTRS]

"It appears we have been terribly misled and this has had tragic consequences. It is now emerging that a number of people deliberately concealed ongoing abuse in the home."


What rocket scientist came up with that little arse-covering gem?

[Genestho]

What rocket scientist came up with that little arse-covering gem?

BS innit..I read those sentences and thought WTF.:facepalm:

[MSTRS]

I suppose when you get down to basics, it is quite true, though. Kahui family, anyone?

[eelracing]

A 5 y/o girl died early this morning in Napier.

Merry f***** Christmas


Bless them this Christmas, you are all they need.

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[Monie]

Bring back public flogging!


agree. an eye for an eye

[JimO]

agree. an eye for an eye

you cant the "alleged" offender has rights you know!!

[Paul in NZ]

I see a LOT of damaged people reaching out to others. I don't see many comfortably well-off, I',m all right Jack types doing the same.

Sorry Jim - I cant agree with you.

Its not seen and its not enough but there are many many well off people out there trying to do what they can. Largly its done quietly because its not seen as a cool thing to be doing but happen it does.

Yes - more should be done but I'm sorry, society is a constantly changing beast and our current way of life does not leave much time for some things. This change does provide us with places like this where people can voice their opinion on these matters and I think that it is very important that this happens. Social standards are collectively set and its good that these matters are discussed.

Change happens slowly, too slowly for some of our most vunerable members as it happens. However I do believe than we are going to slowly address these issues and I certainly believe that there is a willingness to do so but like most of us, I'm not sure how. Thats one reason these threads have value. Sooner or later someone will have a good idea...

You know some of my current situation and trust me, reading this shit breaks my bloody heart and firms up my resolve to keep doing what I'm doing despite the cost.

[James Deuce]

Sorry Jim - I cant agree with you.

Its not seen and its not enough but there are many many well off people out there trying to do what they can. Largly its done quietly because its not seen as a cool thing to be doing but happen it does.

Yes - more should be done but I'm sorry, society is a constantly changing beast and our current way of life does not leave much time for some things. This change does provide us with places like this where people can voice their opinion on these matters and I think that it is very important that this happens. Social standards are collectively set and its good that these matters are discussed.

Change happens slowly, too slowly for some of our most vunerable members as it happens. However I do believe than we are going to slowly address these issues and I certainly believe that there is a willingness to do so but like most of us, I'm not sure how. Thats one reason these threads have value. Sooner or later someone will have a good idea...

You know some of my current situation and trust me, reading this shit breaks my bloody heart and firms up my resolve to keep doing what I'm doing despite the cost.

I was thinking of you when I wrote that last line. As much as you regard yourself as "normal" you've had and continue to have rather more issues to deal with on a daily basis than at least a couple of people I can think of and you continue to get out there and donate your time, energy (what's left of it) and sometimes money to causes that most people ignore.

Stop selling yourself short.

[jasonu]

I'd rather live in a country that treats ALL its citizens well than one that threatens to submit to radical, reactionary responses to emotive subjects, about which we seldom know all the details or all the answers.

Like all threads of its ilk a vocal minority purport to know all the answers, but are seldom seen or heard of when friends are in trouble, let alone despised denizens of an underclass created by self-interest and mindless adherence to politicised "solutions" rather than actively encouraging people to enhance your next-door neighbour's life. That's where, I believe, we have to start. Us, not "them". "They" don't give a fuck so long as you consume and spend.

What I do know is that the same people ranting about the "scumbags" harming and killing their children will making the same comments in 20 years time about the abused children (obviously not the dead ones) going on to live the same lifestyle as their parents and exhibiting the same level of sometimes violent dysfunction and disaffection and they will be saying that the things that happened to them are no excuse for their appalling behaviour.

Narrow, small-minded, vindictive and shallow is not a long term cultural choice. It's led us to the point where we are now where everyone has an opinion and no one has the time to positively effect change in anyone else's life.

I see a LOT of damaged people reaching out to others. I don't see many comfortably well-off, I',m all right Jack types doing the same.

Are you related to Helen Clarke or do you belong to the Green party or maybe you wear sandles while you hug trees.
Shit man,we need to harden the fuck up on people like these! We need to lock up cocksuckers like these people and throw away the key. There is no excuse. 'Oh but I was abused as a child so now I will abuse my children' Fuck that! Those people are adults and unless they are mentally retarded, there is no excuse for them not to see what they are doing to these kids is wrong. I am totally disgusted that they were released on bail. That judge needs a good swift punch in the head wake up call, maybe a visit with the abused girl in question might change his/her descision to let these cunts loose.
Things like this make me feel embarresed to say I am a Kiwi

Just my opinion for what it is worth.

[Paul in NZ]

Are you related to Helen Clarke?

Now that you mention it - I have noticed a resemblance...... Except helens the looker in the family... :innocent:

nah - hes got a heart of gold our Jim, he just acts all gruff....

[Paul in NZ]

Stop selling yourself short.

OK - You should see my latest 'project'. Tell ya about it next time we catch up...

[James Deuce]

Are you related to Helen Clarke or do you belong to the Green party or maybe you wear sandles while you hug trees.
Shit man,we need to harden the fuck up on people like these! We need to lock up cocksuckers like these people and throw away the key. There is no excuse. 'Oh but I was abused as a child so now I will abuse my children' Fuck that! Those people are adults and unless they are mentally retarded, there is no excuse for them not to see what they are doing to these kids is wrong. I am totally disgusted that they were released on bail. That judge needs a good swift punch in the head wake up call, maybe a visit with the abused girl in question might change his/her descision to let these cunts loose.
Things like this make me feel embarresed to say I am a Kiwi

Just my opinion for what it is worth.

Do you work hard to burp up ignorant vitriol or does it just, you know flow forth without effort?

[Virago]

...Shit man,we need to harden the fuck up on people like these! We need to lock up cocksuckers like these people and throw away the key. There is no excuse...

...That judge needs a good swift punch in the head wake up call...

Ah, I love the smell of irony in the morning.

Smells like - hypocrisy...

[jonbuoy]

Do you work hard to burp up ignorant vitriol or does it just, you know flow forth without effort?

Your right Jim, what they REALLY need is a group hug. :tugger: You seem to know all the answers - what do you think the solution is? What can us ignorant public do to help these poor unfortunate people that are compelled to beat seven bells of shit out of children? Do you have children? Have you ever felt the urge to hit them for ANYTHING? The thought of raising a hand against my stepkids even to discipline them makes me feel sick.

[James Deuce]

Your right Jim, what they REALLY need is a group hug. :tugger: You seem to know all the answers - what do you think the solution is? What can us ignorant public do to help these poor unfortunate people that are compelled to beat seven bells of shit out of children? Do you have children? Have you ever felt the urge to hit them for ANYTHING? The thought of raising a hand against my stepkids even to discipline them makes me feel sick.

The assumptions are really quite magnificent. If only I could leap such chasms in a single bound.

[jonbuoy]

The assumptions are really quite magnificent. If only I could leap such chasms in a single bound.

No real answers to the questions though?

[James Deuce]

No real answers to the questions though?
There are no answers. I have suggestions for a process, but expecting a quick fix is as much a fantasy as expecting killing and maiming criminals to prevent people committing crimes.

[jasonu]

Your right Jim, what they REALLY need is a group hug. :tugger: You seem to know all the answers - what do you think the solution is? What can us ignorant public do to help these poor unfortunate people that are compelled to beat seven bells of shit out of children? Do you have children? Have you ever felt the urge to hit them for ANYTHING? The thought of raising a hand against my stepkids even to discipline them makes me feel sick.

Yes maybe give them a pat on the head and politely ask them not to do it again.
I think that would work out just peachey for their daughter...


killing and maiming criminals to prevent people committing crimes.

Now you are talking, should work nicely.

[Kickaha]

By the time you get to the killing and maiming of criminals it's already to late, you might stop re offending but not the original crime

[MSTRS]

It's a bit like gardening...and weeds.
You can keep pulling the bastards out, or spray them to death, even though they keep coming. Eventually, there's not so many, but you still can't afford to relax.
Or you can talk nicely to them, hope they listen, and don't take over the garden...

[firefighter]

There are no answers. I have suggestions for a process, but expecting a quick fix is as much a fantasy as expecting killing and maiming criminals to prevent people committing crimes.

No but it's a far greater deterrent than what we have currently.

As I said before, you will never stop it, but you can absolutely ensure that the people caught don't do it again (without a huge expense to the rest of society).

I'm personally a supporter of the death penalty, but with strict policies to prevent the innocent being executed. I will never see any benefit in keeping serious miscreants alive, as some muppit will always want to 'rehabilitate them', which even if that was a possibility, which it isn't, they don't deserve to be.

As for those who blame being fingered as children/whatever themselves, that is a bullshit excuse, there are plenty that don't grow up to be mongrels. I know two of them (one is a close cousin), and they have a very hightened awareness of what is right and wrong.

There are no excuses for this stuff no-matter how it is painted. Call it emotive, call it what you like, that is my answer for dealing with those caught, as for preventing it, well......who knows.

[jasonu]

No but it's a far greater deterrent than what we have currently.

As I said before, you will never stop it, but you can absolutely ensure that the people caught don't do it again (without a huge expense to the rest of society).

I'm personally a supporter of the death penalty, but with strict policies to prevent the innocent being executed. I will never see any benefit in keeping serious miscreants alive, as some muppit will always want to 'rehabilitate them', which even if that was a possibility, which it isn't, they don't deserve to be.

As for those who blame being fingered as children/whatever themselves, that is a bullshit excuse, there are plenty that don't grow up to be mongrels. I know two of them (one is a close cousin), and they have a very hightened awareness of what is right and wrong.

There are no excuses for this stuff no-matter how it is painted. Call it emotive, call it what you like, that is my answer for dealing with those caught, as for preventing it, well......who knows.

I agree with you.
Put them in jail for a long long time so if/when they get out they will be too old and their kids will be too big (and hopefully too smart) for them to do it again.
Or, you could put them through the mentioned 'process' give them back the kida and hope they don't do it again.
For the kids sake, I like my first option. These bastards don't deserve a second chance.

This guy went through a 'process'
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10696086

[scissorhands]

The punishment should fit the crime. An eye for an eye, or a hand, or a penis. I quite like the idea of public floggings like in Singapore. Public beheadings could be going a bit too far.

[scumdog]

By the time you get to the killing and maiming of criminals it's already to late, you might stop re offending but not the original crime

True.

But many of those committing the original crime do carry on to commit more.

[scissorhands]

Yes but a deterant it would be. If a young juvenile saw his older mates all being publicly whipped for stealing cars whatever he might be inspired to turn over a new leaf...

I dont know how current child abusers would think when seeing this is the media. Out on bail.

[Tink]

Read 3 pages or more, my eyes are fuzzy and I am in shock!

One thing we have on this planet that should be the most precious things is our future, and if we cannot bring our future, love, patience, nurture, nutrition, etc etc... then this planet will die.

I agree with the generational abuse, I see poor families everyday in my job, but with those families I see happy kids playing on the street, manners, well fed... those are good parents money or no money... those kids are taken care of and loved.

I see wealthy families too, kids stuck in front of playstations, ipods, cell phones, fancy cars, are these kids better off, I don't think so... kids need a parents and a family foremost.

Who remembers the "break the cycle" ad on tv.

Those that abuse don't I imagine watch TV, or read the paper, news etc...

:(

[pritch]

Bring back public flogging!

That might be just a little extreme. Or maybe not?

We could bring back the stocks for young offenders as an interim measure but the case mentioned by the OP is a bit beyond that.

[SMOKEU]

That might be just a little extreme. Or maybe not?

We could bring back the stocks for young offenders as an interim measure but the case mentioned by the OP is a bit beyond that.

I'm sure there will be some sort of torture that will suffice.

[James Deuce]

. then this planet will die.



No it won't. Not until the Sun's last phase of activity turns it red and massive.

You're confusing people with planet and on a cosmic scale we're so insignificant as to be beneath comment.

[Tink]

No it won't. Not until the Sun's last phase of activity turns it red and massive.

You're confusing people with planet and on a cosmic scale we're so insignificant as to be beneath comment.

lol gotcha now... planet post...

Yes your right!

[scissorhands]

Caning in a Singapore school, NZ canings and beltings were pretty soft by comparison


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaBMBVpsuwo

[tri boy]

Caning in a Singapore school, NZ canings and beltings were pretty soft by comparison


Besides allowing the whole school to witness the caning, (sometimes the class was allowed at my school), I see very little difference actually.
In fact, one of the old discipline masters that whacked me (regularly), was also a A grade squash player, he would lay in as hard as that bloke does, but 5 cuts was his average.
Ahh, the good ol days.

[Paul in NZ]

Well this make some sense of it.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10696981

I'm sure its not the whole story but I suspect there is quite a bit of truth in it.

OK - so we put up bike acc fees bcause we cant afford to keep paying for these high user caused accidents. Well its about frigging time we adopted the same policies here. Some of these cunts are pushing the boat out a bit far methinks.

I'm sorry - I cant think of anyway else to stop these sub normal abusers (well I can but apparently I'm not allowed to)

[James Deuce]

The other side of the coin is that open adaption needs to be dropped.

We looked extensively at adopting when it looked like we couldn't have kids and you were opening your entire life to these bastards. After talking to people who'd adopted and had to put up with stand over tactics, physical harm and extended family constantly dropping in and demanding their "rights" we decided we weren't going there.

[Ocean1]

Simple. Put a contraceptive agent in the water supply.

Charge enough for the antidote that prospective parents have to work a bit to get there. Just a little bit'd be enough.

If that's all a bit unsavoury then simply STOP PAYING THEM TO BREED FOR FUCKS SAKE.

[Brian d marge]

Caning in a Singapore school, NZ canings and beltings were pretty soft by comparison


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaBMBVpsuwo

HTFU

I was a regular at headmasters B and D parties

Stephen

[avgas]

But how the fuck do they get name suppression!!!!!

[avgas]

By the time you get to the killing and maiming of criminals it's already to late, you might stop re offending but not the original crime
Which one?

[Brian d marge]

But how the fuck do they get name suppression!!!!!

Have you seen some of those name? eg , kingston Ford waimera ( even my made up ones aren't as funny as the real ones)
If I was the Judge I would give name suppression to ,,,,permanently , then cane the parents for being so dumb ,,,

Stephen

,,but you do have to wonder ,,,a 13 year old boy woken up to drive a car , cause mum and dad are pissed ,,,,, and you want me to have respect ,,,,

not happening

[Edbear]

Read 3 pages or more, my eyes are fuzzy and I am in shock!

One thing we have on this planet that should be the most precious things is our future, and if we cannot bring our future, love, patience, nurture, nutrition, etc etc... then this planet will die.

I agree with the generational abuse, I see poor families everyday in my job, but with those families I see happy kids playing on the street, manners, well fed... those are good parents money or no money... those kids are taken care of and loved.

I see wealthy families too, kids stuck in front of playstations, ipods, cell phones, fancy cars, are these kids better off, I don't think so... kids need a parents and a family foremost.

Who remembers the "break the cycle" ad on tv.

Those that abuse don't I imagine watch TV, or read the paper, news etc...

:(

Often that's true and if they do see the ads they simply ignore them. Abuser's, like boy racer's and some KB biker's, simply think the law does not apply to them or that they are above the law, or won't likely be caught, and/or blame everyone and everything else including the law/law enforcer's and especially the victim, for their situation. Like spousal abuse, it is the victim's fault for "making me angry".

Poverty is no excuse for abuse as you have indicated in your post here, neither is money assurance of safety.

[scumdog]

Often that's true and if they do see the ads they simply ignore them. Abuser's, like boy racer's and some KB biker's, simply think the law does not apply to them or that they are above the law, or won't likely be caught, and/or blame everyone and everything else including the law/law enforcer's and especially the victim, for their situation. Like spousal abuse, it is the victim's fault for "making me angry".

Poverty is no excuse for abuse as you have indicated in your post here, neither is money assurance of safety.


Ain't THAT the truth!!:yes:

[scumdog]

STOP PAYING THEM TO BREED FOR FUCKS SAKE.


Yep, we're making a rod for our own backs at present!:yes: