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bogan
19th December 2010, 19:01
Have finally got my electric conversion of a KR-1 going, still some tweaking and testing required but happy with the progress. One design constraint I had was to make it look good, none of this square battery poking through frame/fairing BS, and I think I've achieved that :D

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll52/bogan229/P1010492.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll52/bogan229/P1010497.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll52/bogan229/P1010494.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll52/bogan229/P1010498.jpg

The specs:
Motor ME0708 brushed permanent magnet, 4.8kw continuous or 15kw for 1 min max.
Batteries 3 38Ah 12V AGM SLA
Controller alltrax AXE4844

Currently it's set up for 200A max, which is about half what it could do with better batteries. The rev counter has been replaced with an ammeter, and there is also a digital display with energy used and voltage/temps etc. The main electronics are in the tank, which has the bottom cut out of it. With the DC converter under the rider seat, and the charger going under the pillion with a 3 pin plug. The motor is mounted directly to the swingarm to maintain constant chain tension, it drives the wheel through a 14/62 reduction, I machined the 62 tooth sprocket to around 20% of its original weight.

The max speed so far is just over 50kmhr, hoping to better that when I get the rolling friction down a bit. Range unknown for that reason. One thing you notice real quick is the lack of engine braking (didn't see enough benefit to pay an extra hundy bucks for a controller with regen), basically every corner feels like one you have clicked it down into neutral instead of first, which is impossible cos it's got no gears. Which is why it's got the big e-stop on the tank, if the controller fucks out, the most likely outcome is the bike takes off:shit: All in all it's pretty entertaining to ride though :yes:

I plan to perhaps put a few crash bungs on it and set up car park gymkhana type circuits or something like that for a bit of fun (250gp bike turning radius on tight slow turns should be good for a few laughs). And once I've done a bit of testing and whatnot anyone can talk to me bout having a go on it too :yes:

Dare
19th December 2010, 19:12
Nice work! Looks like you kept the original look pretty much.
Got any other specs? How light is it now? Is 50kmh really its max speed?
And can we (I) see it nekked? :innocent:

Would love to have a go, personally I'm still waiting for a couple more breakthroughs in battery tech (A123!)...
A few years of leccy GP should have that sorted :yes:

banditrider
19th December 2010, 19:45
Looking good dude - gonna see it on the FNR soon...

bogan
19th December 2010, 20:02
Nice work! Looks like you kept the original look pretty much.
Got any other specs? How light is it now? Is 50kmh really its max speed?
And can we (I) see it nekked? :innocent:

Would love to have a go, personally I'm still waiting for a couple more breakthroughs in battery tech (A123!)...
A few years of leccy GP should have that sorted :yes:

can't find any good pics with the tank off, but if you zoom in on this one its a bit naked http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll52/bogan229/P1010491.jpg
weight is 147.5ish, with 10 more kg on the front than the rear. So with an original dry weight of 123kg, + bout 20kg of fluids, there isn't much difference, and all the weight is low as now. And not sure bout the 50kmhr, I calculated it would do around 70 unloaded, but I think the rolling friction is drawing so much power the battery voltage is sagging enough that it won't get near that top speed. Also, I could pop another battery to bring it up to 48V if needed, but I think I'll wait for some cheap A123's or similar, or wait till I have a job!


Looking good dude - gonna see it on the FNR soon...

only if the FNR calls in to see it, which would be good for a laugh once the crash bungs are on it ;)

rwh
19th December 2010, 22:25
Nice :)

Although, I see far less point in going electric if you don't do regen - range vs battery weight seems to be one of the biggest issues with electric, and any chance to recover some of the juice seems to be a good idea to me.

Richard

SMOKEU
19th December 2010, 22:30
That's a pretty dope looking ride. Does it peel mean skids?

imdying
20th December 2010, 07:03
That kicks arse :yes:

Swoop
20th December 2010, 07:24
Very nice work! You should be proud of what you achieved.:first:

I'll look forward to seeing further info on this project (range, etc) in the future.

p.dath
20th December 2010, 07:37
The feeling of not being in gear while going around a corner is interesting. It does sound like you might need the regen controller.

bogan
20th December 2010, 09:05
Nice :)

Although, I see far less point in going electric if you don't do regen - range vs battery weight seems to be one of the biggest issues with electric, and any chance to recover some of the juice seems to be a good idea to me.

Richard

yeh, it would be nice, but my budget didn't stretch that far so... also I'm not sure how mcuh juice you can pour back into an SLA, going by the batter recomendations, more than 10A would be pushing it, and that sorta current just ain't worth it.


That's a pretty dope looking ride. Does it peel mean skids?

nah, but the first few version had some mean smoke :facepalm:


The feeling of not being in gear while going around a corner is interesting. It does sound like you might need the regen controller.

It's only an issue if you aren't expecting it, like on a pushbike it's fine, not so much on a v-twin.

rwh
20th December 2010, 12:15
yeh, it would be nice, but my budget didn't stretch that far so... also I'm not sure how mcuh juice you can pour back into an SLA, going by the batter recomendations, more than 10A would be pushing it, and that sorta current just ain't worth it.


Interesting - I thought you could generally charge at just a slightly lower rate than discharge, but that's a long way from 200A :(

Richard

R6_kid
20th December 2010, 12:29
The feeling of not being in gear while going around a corner is interesting. It does sound like you might need the regen controller.

Or be on the throttle. It sounds very much like at two stroke race bike, so you just need to adapt you riding to fit.

bogan
20th December 2010, 14:09
Interesting - I thought you could generally charge at just a slightly lower rate than discharge, but that's a long way from 200A :(

Richard

yeh, then again going by the battery recommendations I shouldn't really be pulling 200A out of it either :innocent: next one will definitely have regen :yes:


Or be on the throttle. It sounds very much like at two stroke race bike, so you just need to adapt you riding to fit.

well it used to be a two stroke race bike :scooter:

k14
20th December 2010, 14:36
yeh, then again going by the battery recommendations I shouldn't really be pulling 200A out of it either :innocent: next one will definitely have regen :yes:
So how many A123 cells would you need? That would save a whole heap of weight too. I just got one for my race bike (a 4 cell) and it's 355g compared to the 2.4kg of the old SLA. Not sure on the capacity though, think they both are around the 4-5Ah range maybe?

Anyways, that is an awesome effort. How much did it cost for it all?

bogan
20th December 2010, 14:45
So how many A123 cells would you need? That would save a whole heap of weight too. I just got one for my race bike (a 4 cell) and it's 355g compared to the 2.4kg of the old SLA. Not sure on the capacity though, think they both are around the 4-5Ah range maybe?

Anyways, that is an awesome effort. How much did it cost for it all?

think it'd be about 60 of them, which I think would cost around 1500bucks atm. And a123 cells require a battery management system which is around 500bucks (though I'd probly try and make my own), motor was around 700 a few years ago, batteries 450, controller bout 450, another couple of hundy on misc bits, + a donor rolling frame obviously. So somewhere around 2K of parts, and hundreds of build hours...

imdying
20th December 2010, 15:36
So if somebody else was supplying the dollars, you reckon you could build another 250 powered by LiFePO4s?

K14, your 4 cell will be 2.3AH, but it'll probably have a 10 second discharge rating of close to 120A. Kick arse :D

bogan
20th December 2010, 15:46
So if somebody else was supplying the dollars, you reckon you could build another 250 powered by LiFePO4s?

Hells yeh :D Probly make a pretty sweet bike for around 5K + donor frame I reckon, theres a guy near welli who has done one with a lot better spec'd batteries, you may find that interesting http://www.astara.co.nz/Astara/Electric_motorcycle_project.html

k14
20th December 2010, 15:46
K14, your 4 cell will be 2.3AH, but it'll probably have a 10 second discharge rating of close to 120A. Kick arse :D
Yeah it is written on battery, I will have a look when I get home from work. Sounds about right though. I have read that there are some dodgy A123 counterfeit batteries out there that are made in China so you have to be careful for that. I just got the battery off a guy in the states that makes them himself. Cost me just under $100. Easy way to save 2kg of high up weight.

I was reading up about making up your own A123 spot welding machine a few months ago, I am assuming you'd have to do that for all the 60 batteries? Wait a few years and A123's will be cheaper and a lot more prolific. You'll probably be able to get them for $5 each because the next greatest thing will be invented. Keep the thread up to date cause it is fascinating reading. Something I wouldn't mind having a stab at in the future. Best thing I can think of is plugging it in at work to recharge it :scooter:

bogan
20th December 2010, 15:52
yeh, makes buying a123's a bastard if it's off ebay. Some manufacturers make their cells with threaded ends now, so you just get some copper bar and wire em up with that, lot easier for the one-off projects. I think at the moment we can get a123 or a similar brand 10ahr cells for around 20NZ+shipping. Think I'll be pluggin mine in at work just so i can make it home again :p, which will probly mean I can't knock off too early if it's still charging :facepalm: :laugh:

imdying
20th December 2010, 15:52
I have read that there are some dodgy A123 counterfeit batteries out there that are made in China so you have to be careful for that.Not too bad for your application probably. As I understand it, mostly they're just down on the peak discharge (say only 80A) which isn't important on your race bike (no starter)

k14
20th December 2010, 15:58
Not too bad for your application probably. As I understand it, mostly they're just down on the peak discharge (say only 80A) which isn't important on your race bike (no starter)
Nah I still have starting system on race bike. I actually bought two 4 cell batteries and was toying with the idea of going total loss and removing the rotor from crank. But the starter clutch is part of the rotor so that would mean either getting some rollers or crash starting every time. Both of which I am firmly against! A guy on another forum did a test with a 600 and on his 8 cell he got 27 minutes running before it died. On a few of the tracks here that could get you into trouble if a race is red flagged. You'd have to go 12 cell to be sure and then get a set of rollers. Both of which are out of my budget! So just the 2kg saving for me. I am also assured that they are genuine A123 cells.

imdying
21st December 2010, 14:03
Hells yeh :D Probly make a pretty sweet bike for around 5K + donor frame I reckon, theres a guy near welli who has done one with a lot better spec'd batteries, you may find that interesting http://www.astara.co.nz/Astara/Electric_motorcycle_project.htmlCheers for the link. Feel free to relate some of the things you've learnt from your project, would love to hear about it.

bogan
21st December 2010, 14:22
Cheers for the link. Feel free to relate some of the things you've learnt from your project, would love to hear about it.

the main thing I learnt the hard way, is it's easy to design a high current motor controller in theory, but bloody difficult in practice! But I learnt a heap about electronics trying to make one.
it's really easy to do a conversion if you just buy off the shelf parts, if anything the wiring is easier and simpler than whats on a bike anyway. In fact mechanical experience to get the bits to fit an line up is far more important than electrical.
always have an e-stop that is guaranteed to work, otherwise the bike is very hard to slow down in the case of a controller failure.
and also the more generic experience of putting in a quality effort and getting quality results (it surprising how many think they can halfass the effort and still get quality at the end of it).
oh, and little alphanumeric display screens may look good in a well lit shed, but you can't see shit when on the go!
and I'm hoping to learn that with some minor tuning you can reduce the rolling friction significantly, but tests for that will be next year.

avgas
18th January 2011, 09:35
any updates yet?

bogan
18th January 2011, 09:48
yeh, took a caliper off and dropped almost 30% of the power needed to cruise at 50kmhr. So I'll be ordering new pistons and seals all round as there is still significant friction in the brakes. Haven't done much serious testing yet, as the battery charger I made started smoking (completely over power electronics, don't work as the book says they should!) I've since ordered a 48v power supply from china which should just replace the smoldering mess part of the charger and work all good once it gets here, could be a while as it's on the slow boat I think!

avgas
18th January 2011, 10:32
So are you running 4 batteries now?
How much was the 48v charger? Also be very careful with it - as most people don't realize that 48v supplies are usually designed for comms which is reversed polarity (-48vdc). But I don't think your would stuff that up - knowing you you have ordered a specific charger for electric drives.

bogan
18th January 2011, 10:36
nah, charge voltage on the 36V pack is around 42-44V anyway. Not sure what you mean about reversed polarity, I just got a cheap 5A supply from china bout 50 bucks, got a bit of adjustment in the output voltage which should take the load of my charger circuit a bit.

bogan
27th January 2011, 15:59
Got the charger installed and almost tuned properly. Chinese POS which could be described as a semi assembled kitset with limited instructions, a component has come free and mashed off another little one, as well as the trimpots being tuned to fuckery, few hours of circuit diagnosing had it fixed though. Wasn't able to drop down to low enough voltage so blew some fuses, fixed now I hope. Is great as I just take off the pillion seat, unroll 3pin plug cord, and plug her in :D

Did a wee bit of range testing, 9km and expecting that to need about 9ahrs top up. Got the go slows at about km 7, so pulled over for a bit to check nothing was on fire, went fine after that so I think the battery voltage had dropped too far and the controlled started current limiting it. I can program the controller to be more agressive on the cells, but hoping that won't be needed.

Realised I never put an indicator dash light back on, so will have to sort that asap so I don't leave it on and get run over. (edit, is done now)

All in all, getting closer to completion :D

ducatilover
27th January 2011, 16:56
Awesome stuff dude!!!!!! :niceone:

bogan
23rd February 2011, 19:30
another update :woohoo:

I've been to massey and back twice on it, charging at massey takes about 3 hrs, one way trip is about 8ahr so could make it return without, but easier to charge at both ends.

The brake lines weren't hacking running only a single caliper (double pressure equals a lot of expansion) so went back to twins. Pity I didn't figure it out before ordering seals, so one is running old seals and missing one dust seal, will sort it with my next order. Stopping power is good, and no discernible increase in energy used.

Both trips have had wee issues with it cutting out, one was a dodgy micro-switch (bypassed now), the other I'm not sure of but may have been the microcontroller (bypassed now) or some iffy wiring (it all looks soldered pretty good though).

Had to adjust the rear suspension as the weight distribution must have changed enough to cause it to top out over most bumps.

Fucking rain caught me out last night as it was charging too, but don't think anything shorted/damaged in the 20s of thundershower it took me to get to the wall switch.

Also I hit 58kmhr on the way home last time, new top score :D I wasn't even in full crouch behind the fairing so I reckon it'll be good for 60 next time :yes:

If it gets there and back next commute, will get rewarded with a few months rego, and perhaps some crash bungs :blink:

ducatilover
24th February 2011, 12:50
I'm going to say something very potentially dumb, but, have you considered using the brakes in any way as a recharge system? Because, then you will have the excuse to do stoppies EVERYWHERE!

bogan
24th February 2011, 13:18
I'm going to say something very potentially dumb, but, have you considered using the brakes in any way as a recharge system? Because, then you will have the excuse to do stoppies EVERYWHERE!

Would be good to try, but you gotta get a motor onto the front wheel somehow, a swingarm with HCS and chain drive would be the go I reckon. Or you could add a hub motor or motor on the forks, but it'd be well heavy and handle shit.

ducatilover
24th February 2011, 13:47
Would be good to try, but you gotta get a motor onto the front wheel somehow, a swingarm with HCS and chain drive would be the go I reckon. Or you could add a hub motor or motor on the forks, but it'd be well heavy and handle shit.

I have a funny idea in my head of using the disks and some bits and bobs to get some induction going on there? Ah, you're the engineer :facepalm: Put a jet on it, that would be metal,

bogan
24th February 2011, 13:59
I have a funny idea in my head of using the disks and some bits and bobs to get some induction going on there? Ah, you're the engineer :facepalm: Put a jet on it, that would be metal,

You could get an eddy current brake going on probably, but that just disappates heat in the disk anyway.

ducatilover
24th February 2011, 14:00
You could get an eddy current brake going on probably, but that just disappates heat in the disk anyway.

Ah flag that idea, if you carry some spirits under the seat, you can get pissed when you have to push it and you won't mind so much :innocent:

javawocky
24th February 2011, 14:13
Surely you could use the electric motor off the back wheel for regenerative engine braking? Probably more complicated wiring needed there though.

One of the many bikes I've read about had a kind of negative throttle which you wind the other way and it produces a braking effect.

bogan
24th February 2011, 14:31
Surely you could use the electric motor off the back wheel for regenerative engine braking? Probably more complicated wiring needed there though.

One of the many bikes I've read about had a kind of negative throttle which you wind the other way and it produces a braking effect.

yeh, could have done that with a fancier controller, would probly get 80% of the regeneratable energy for everyday use, not as cool though.

avgas
24th February 2011, 15:17
How about a simple bypass relay so that if you hit is a physical crowbar contact is activated taking the motor power and feeding it into the charger terminal?

Crude I know - but you could hook it up to a micro-switch so that when you came off power it started charging.

bogan
24th February 2011, 15:26
How about a simple bypass relay so that if you hit is a physical crowbar contact is activated taking the motor power and feeding it into the charger terminal?

Crude I know - but you could hook it up to a micro-switch so that when you came off power it started charging.

my charger isn't set up to boost the voltage, generally they will short the motor contacts together to set up a current loop, then open em onto the battery as the current loop will be maintained, repeat really fast to get regen!

bogan
29th May 2011, 15:33
Ride by vid of it.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7IpgwkxZvTA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

banditrider
29th May 2011, 15:40
Awesome dude!

Gotta love that exhaust note as you disappeared - sounded a lot like a flat 6 aero engine...:innocent:

bogan
29th May 2011, 15:42
Awesome dude!

Gotta love that exhaust note as you disappeared - sounded a lot like a flat 6 aero engine...:innocent:

haha, yeh we timed it so there was no other traffic around to mask the noise, then some fucker in a plane comes and spoils it, oh well, no subsititue for hearing it IRL anyway.

Stormer
29th May 2011, 16:44
Way to go.
Who gives a shit if gas prices go up.
What`s the rego cost on an electric powered road going bike, seeming as the cc rating is zero??

bogan
29th May 2011, 16:57
Way to go.
Who gives a shit if gas prices go up.
What`s the rego cost on an electric powered road going bike, seeming as the cc rating is zero??

mines reged as a moped due to the low top speed, other are slightly more than normal bike rego, but not by much.

Ender EnZed
29th May 2011, 17:27
mines reged as a moped due to the low top speed, other are slightly more than normal bike rego, but not by much.

What are the others reged as? Is there an "Alternative-Fuel Motorcycle" category?

bogan
29th May 2011, 18:16
What are the others reged as? Is there an "Alternative-Fuel Motorcycle" category?

Think it's a 'non-petrol motorcycle' category, like diesels but I think exempt from diesel miles for now. This is all going from memory of a few years ago when it was all ums and ahs and 'I'll call some other bloke to check' probably more organised now.

p.dath
30th May 2011, 07:32
That is very impressive. You have done a great job.

Laava
30th May 2011, 07:49
Awesome dude. Can I suggest an iceblock stick [or spatula?] in the spokes?

ducatilover
30th May 2011, 09:11
That's bitchin'!!!!!!!!

imdying
30th May 2011, 09:30
You're my hero! :woohoo:

bogan
30th May 2011, 10:02
Awesome dude. Can I suggest an iceblock stick [or spatula?] in the spokes?

There's only 3 spokes though! Maybe a ram-air duct to a whistle instead :whistle:

4AGE
30th May 2011, 10:29
Thats fricken awesome.
Good work!

Laava
30th May 2011, 11:53
There's only 3 spokes though! :

It'll sound like a one lunger!

bogan
9th June 2011, 22:16
A momentus day today, broke the 100km distance traveled mark, and hit 68kmhr (indicated) :woohoo:

I've also bee noticing this is awesome for roundabouts, well low COG means it turns in easy, and no low rpm driveline chatter means it's piss easy going smooth as. Be wicked fun to gymkhana I reckon.

On another note, the brakes are still pretty shit, do pads lose their grip after a long time? cos they have had bugger all use for a decade, but plenty of meat left on em.

ducatilover
9th June 2011, 22:51
Let me try the brakes so I stop thinking my big as fuck twin four pots are shit :innocent:
It is possible, try sanding the disk and pad? There may be a bit of a glaze or something.
Or, I have two spare front discs, two four pot calipers with good pads and one twin pot caliper + rear disk, but the seals are munted.
Take your pick, or throw them on the bros, you know you want to.

bogan
10th June 2011, 09:43
Let me try the brakes so I stop thinking my big as fuck twin four pots are shit :innocent:
It is possible, try sanding the disk and pad? There may be a bit of a glaze or something.
Or, I have two spare front discs, two four pot calipers with good pads and one twin pot caliper + rear disk, but the seals are munted.
Take your pick, or throw them on the bros, you know you want to.

Haha, was going to give it another, and possibly last, test run today, but I'm think postponed due to precipitation, rides should be available soon.
Might give em a sand, I also think we put some drum shoes in the oven once to do a similar thing. Or I could just get some new ones, doesn't sound cheap though...

Trouble is the bros won't take another disk with the stock rims, and I like my egg-beater rims :yes:

ducatilover
10th June 2011, 09:51
Haha, was going to give it another, and possibly last, test run today, but I'm think postponed due to precipitation, rides should be available soon.
Might give em a sand, I also think we put some drum shoes in the oven once to do a similar thing. Or I could just get some new ones, doesn't sound cheap though...

Trouble is the bros won't take another disk with the stock rims, and I like my egg-beater rims :yes:

Measure between the bolt holes, I'm fairly sure the Bro is 68mm center to center, if you we could throw a proper caliper on it. you know you want real brakes :yes: The ZZR calipers have the same bolt spacing as a VTR1000, which to my knowledge was the same spacing as the CB, which in turn had the same caliper (Just two of 'em)

I'll probably get the shits when I find there's no engine braking haha

bogan
10th June 2011, 09:56
Measure between the bolt holes, I'm fairly sure the Bro is 68mm center to center, if you we could throw a proper caliper on it. you know you want real brakes :yes: The ZZR calipers have the same bolt spacing as a VTR1000, which to my knowledge was the same spacing as the CB, which in turn had the same caliper (Just two of 'em)

I'll probably get the shits when I find there's no engine braking haha

:lol: I'd have to go to my uncle's place to measure the bros forks, mind you the ZXR250C ones could be the same. I have 4 pots on there anyway though, and 310mm disc iirc, so not sure the ZZR ones would offer any benefit?

ducatilover
10th June 2011, 11:58
:lol: I'd have to go to my uncle's place to measure the bros forks, mind you the ZXR250C ones could be the same. I have 4 pots on there anyway though, and 310mm disc iirc, so not sure the ZZR ones would offer any benefit?
I thought the Bros had twin piston on the front? A sliding one, exactly the same as a VT250 Spada :facepalm:
I do think my brakes are shit though...

bogan
10th June 2011, 12:19
I thought the Bros had twin piston on the front? A sliding one, exactly the same as a VT250 Spada :facepalm:
I do think my brakes are shit though...

Nah bros is a 4 pot, but the hawks are all twin pots floating calipers. So you can't use a hawk disc on a bros, which is annoying as it means bros discs are more expensive, and less cool looking.

ducatilover
10th June 2011, 16:17
Nah bros is a 4 pot, but the hawks are all twin pots floating calipers. So you can't use a hawk disc on a bros, which is annoying as it means bros discs are more expensive, and less cool looking.

That would explain why mine stopped fairly well then :yes: Apart from when I would aim it at a fence.

Paul in NZ
10th June 2011, 18:09
The spirit of Burt Munro and John Brittan lives on - good onya man...

bogan
16th June 2011, 14:06
It has been running good for a while now (here's hoping that didn't just jinx it to explode on the way home :p), so if people are keen for a ride of it and happen to be in palmy we should be able to suss something out, weather permitting.

One of the comments so far is that it has deceptive acceleration, with a 15sec 0-50 time it's pretty slow, but it feels faster :D

ducatilover
16th June 2011, 17:20
I'll let you laugh at my mid range fuelling in exchange for a ride :banana:

ducatilover
17th June 2011, 23:42
:banana: I can vouch that the 'lectric beast is great.

I think you should sell it as a kit Bogan, I'd sell my Nana to buy one (She's a mad bitch anyway)

Scoots along pretty well, better than expected and obviously is easier to ride than....well anything. :2thumbsup

bogan
2nd July 2011, 20:06
Done a bit of parts browsing, this stuff is getting well cheap, these ones should give a decent performing combo

http://www.evdrives.com/kits_conversion.html

http://currentevtech.com/Lithium-Batteries/Headway/Headway-40160S-16ah-cell-LiFePO4-p42.html

Weight 50kg
Power 11.5kw continuous, 23kw peak for 1min bursts
Capacity 3.4kwhr
Price 2650.8 USD

I reckon with exchange rates, shipping and GST, 4K for that stuff, another K for battery management/charger and some welding cable, plus donor bike for another K, would give you a damn good bike for only 6K :yes: Make a good dirtbike or bucket racer possibly, or with different (but heavier and slightly more expensive) batteries (http://currentevtech.com/Lithium-Batteries/Thundersky/Thundersky-90ah-cell-p23.html) a reasonable commuter good for 100kmhr, and probly 50-100km range. No regen braking is all...

So, anyone got 6k to spend on a conversion? I can help out with electric wiring theory etc....

ducatilover
2nd July 2011, 21:07
I want to see re-gen braking! :woohoo::rockon::scooter:

bogan
17th August 2011, 19:15
Had a spare CCFL halo, figure it might go well in the electric. Kind of works, but pretty weak in the daytime. Ticks the DRL box for the plod though I would think. Might get on to a 36-12V headlight circuit, with beam modulator, just to be a bit more visible.

bogan
30th August 2011, 19:03
Found an interesting problem today, the current sensor is bolted to a bit of plastic, however one of the washers had a burr around the edge (form the stamping manufacturing process I guess), and created some resistance, over time it had generated enough heat and caused the copper plate on the sensor to melt it's way through the plastic, and lost connectivity.
I sanded the washer flat, reassembled, and will hope for the best! Because with no clutch or neutral, she's a bit heavier to push!

racefactory
30th August 2011, 19:12
Bike looks dope man. Way to beat the rising petrol costs!

Very interested to hear it's about it's range once you know!

How does the torque feel?

bogan
30th August 2011, 19:23
Bike looks dope man. Way to beat the rising petrol costs!

Very interested to hear it's about it's range once you know!

How does the torque feel?

I don't think I'll ever find out the range, because it is better for the batteries to keep em topped up.

You know that feeling when you dream you have tripped over, then have a massive spasm and wake up. Yeh, it's got so little torque you could fall asleep on it! But it's still good fun to ride, make different noises, pulls from nothing. If you're in palmy, hit me up and come have a go.

ducatilover
30th August 2011, 21:20
Interesting problem with the washer :yes: must have been the Kawasaki in it coming to visit. :laugh:

Can I ride it again :shifty:

bogan
30th August 2011, 21:37
Interesting problem with the washer :yes: must have been the Kawasaki in it coming to visit. :laugh:

Can I ride it again :shifty:

:lol: Well you got to expect that sort of thing I guess.

Yeh, just noticed the other day that the carpark over the fence is way bigger than I thought. I have no idea why, all there is around here is a pub and hotel, and space for over a hundred cars. Anyway, reckon we chuck out some cones etc, do a bit of nanagymkana, tis not like anyone is going to get upset about the noise :D

ducatilover
30th August 2011, 21:41
:lol: Well you got to expect that sort of thing I guess.

Yeh, just noticed the other day that the carpark over the fence is way bigger than I thought. I have no idea why, all there is around here is a pub and hotel, and space for over a hundred cars. Anyway, reckon we chuck out some cones etc, do a bit of nanagymkana, tis not like anyone is going to get upset about the noise :D

That's a plan! Just throw some crash bars and training wheels on for me :laugh:

bogan
30th August 2011, 21:44
That's a plan! Just throw some crash bars and training wheels on for me :laugh:

haha, reckon just take it easy the first time, see if it is worth mounting some proper crash bungs (I have a pile of super-fancy plastic just the size for crash bungs left over from a job too). Make sure we take the mirrors off though...

ducatilover
30th August 2011, 21:54
haha, reckon just take it easy the first time, see if it is worth mounting some proper crash bungs (I have a pile of super-fancy plastic just the size for crash bungs left over from a job too). Make sure we take the mirrors off though...

I could see if I can get my knee down too while we're there, haven't gone knee down for a while (elbow down a few weeks ago though :confused: )

banditrider
5th October 2011, 18:06
Some inspiration for ya Bogan: http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-10/nasa-awards-largest-prize-aviation-history-all-electric-super-efficient-aircraft

bogan
5th October 2011, 18:47
Yeh, some interesting stuff happening up there with electrics. I think DARPA has one that can catch thermals and solar energy to stay up there with no net fuel use at all, or are getting very close to it. Supposedly to replace the predator surveillance drones.

bogan
4th November 2011, 09:48
well it passed a drip test today, fucking palmy weather, looked good enough to begin with :angry:

and rolled over the 500km mark earlier this week, might crack the thousand by the end of this year :woohoo: if I do about 1200km per year I break even with the rego (vs feul savings from my other bike)

banditrider
4th November 2011, 10:08
Good stuff, don't think it would have been the weapon for my ride last weekend....

ducatilover
4th November 2011, 11:00
Only 1200km a year? My jaw does more than that :facepalm:

awa355
7th November 2011, 17:39
Was in the local library this afternoon browsing the bike book section. Found a fairly new book on building an Electric motorbike. Was quite a thick technical book. Certainly something different.

bogan
11th November 2011, 08:14
awww yeh, the big H is getting in on it :D

<img src="http://s2.visordown.com/uploads/images/large/43409.jpg" />
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/toyko-hondas-rc-e-electric-concept/19465.html

and judging by the size of the motor and those discs, it might be pretty quick!

ducatilover
13th November 2011, 17:55
Radial mount brakes on my electric bike, like a boss.

avgas
13th November 2011, 22:57
Looks like Zero has expanded their range for 2012.

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com

I have to admit I am quite keen on the dual sport.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/high-res-photos/photo.php?bl&img=2012:2012_zero-ds_action-03
And with a top speed of 80 mph (129 km/h) and 100-180km range isn't bad.

Daffyd
14th November 2011, 07:21
You get one of those and you'll have to change your name from AVGAS to AVSPARKS

bogan
15th November 2011, 20:45
About 20km in one hit is the limit, went from massey to dewtech looking for some hose clamps (no luck there either), then home, so about twice as far as normal. Was getting sluggish on accel (didn't think it warranted some prick passing into oncoming traffic with about 300mm clearance though) and wouldn't quite hit 50kmhr on the last km or two.

ducatilover
15th November 2011, 20:55
:headbang: Doing well!

banditrider
15th November 2011, 20:57
Need to carry a couple of AA's with ya?

bogan
16th November 2011, 07:47
Need to carry a couple of AA's with ya?

To throw at plonkers passing inconsiderately? Few D cells would have better effect I think :whistle:

banditrider
16th November 2011, 18:19
CRP Racing's Energica: 100 kW engine, 220 kph top speed, 16kgm of torque, and 150km of range.

250792

bogan
16th November 2011, 19:05
Very nice, could make for an enjoyable FNR with those specs!

banditrider
16th November 2011, 19:14
Very nice, could make for an enjoyable FNR with those specs!

Your challenge, should you choose to accept it....:msn-wink:

bogan
16th November 2011, 19:23
Your challenge, should you choose to accept it....:msn-wink:

Reckon I'll do a dirtbike next, then a hardout roadbike. There is just a shortage of people will to throw money at me currently, whats up with that? :rolleyes:

ducatilover
17th November 2011, 15:12
Next, you should make a diesel bike dude. Turbo diesel with a huge dirty wastegate....black smoke everywhere.

banditrider
3rd December 2011, 09:25
Yo: http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/electric-motorcycles-the-case-for-kld-energy-technologies.htm

Madness
7th March 2012, 16:58
Giving infernal combustion powered bikes the learn...
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/se7Iv5wDFlg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

banditrider
7th March 2012, 17:33
It's actually about time we had an update eh Bogan?

Has it broken any land speed records? Is it entered at the IOM?

bogan
7th March 2012, 20:44
It's actually about time we had an update eh Bogan?

Has it broken any land speed records? Is it entered at the IOM?

I think it's about time you came over and had a go. Been putting a few kms on it, otherwise no updates...

banditrider
11th March 2012, 10:45
I think it's about time you came over and had a go. Been putting a few kms on it, otherwise no updates...

Yeah, that'd be great. Will have to take you up on the offer at some stage.

bogan
13th March 2012, 21:12
Kicked it up a notch today with some pillioning! Was a bit slower uphill and accelerating, but got there alright. Bit wobbly on the low speed stuff, but that would just be down to the higher center of gravity with a pillion (who has a nice high center of gravity herself :shifty:). Pity the ammeter stopped working, would have been interesting to see if there was much extra current draw for the additional weight.

ducatilover
13th March 2012, 23:57
(who has a nice high center of gravity herself :shifty:)
That not quite so flat mate of yours? :innocent:

Paul in NZ
14th March 2012, 06:58
So - just to save me going back and finding it.... Batteries.

Are the new lithium iron ones like the shorais (sp) on the horizon for their amazing lightness or are the charge / discharge characteristics wrong?

bogan
14th March 2012, 14:22
So - just to save me going back and finding it.... Batteries.

Are the new lithium iron ones like the shorais (sp) on the horizon for their amazing lightness or are the charge / discharge characteristics wrong?

Yeh, I'm thinking they are on the horizon, about 2-3k for a pack plus battery management systems, say 3.5k all up, will give me almost double the torque, probably over twice the range, and maybe lose a few kg. But also on my horizon, a vtr1000, and a lot more machinery for the garage, could be some time!

banditrider
14th March 2012, 17:29
Mmmmmmm, a VTR....:drool:

The opposite end of the eco-friendly scale...

I miss mine....:crybaby:

ducatilover
14th March 2012, 18:43
I miss mine....:crybaby:
I still want one very much :yes:

bogan
14th March 2012, 18:54
I still want one very much :yes:

Same here, was the first road bike that I thought had an epic exhaust note, and since my mufflerising on the bros took it from great to epic, I'm hoping to work some magic on a VTR as well, I got plans :yes:

banditrider
14th March 2012, 19:05
Same here, was the first road bike that I thought had an epic exhaust note, and since my mufflerising on the bros took it from great to epic, I'm hoping to work some magic on a VTR as well, I got plans :yes:

I can vouch for titanium Two Bros...

DL is sounding better now through a pair of Remus Revolutions - vid on my YouTube page.

ducatilover
14th March 2012, 19:13
Same here, was the first road bike that I thought had an epic exhaust note, and since my mufflerising on the bros took it from great to epic, I'm hoping to work some magic on a VTR as well, I got plans :yes:
The VTR has a distinctive sound doesn't it? Fucking awesomeness!

banditrider
14th April 2012, 08:17
http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2012-03/you-built-what-street-legal-three-wheeler-runs-nearly-2000-batteries

ducatilover
14th April 2012, 10:05
Cool linky BR!
More info on that beast here:
http://www.nappepin.com/LithiumEV.htm

When I win Lotto I'm going to get Bogan to make more awesomererer 'leccy bikes.

banditrider
15th April 2012, 09:10
Work: http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/9729/sway-motorsports-reveals-its-3-wheel-e-scooter-prototype

Play: http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/9725/brammo-empulse-to-be-unveiled-this-may

banditrider
20th April 2012, 19:08
Hmmmmmmmm....

262337262338

bogan
20th April 2012, 19:12
Impressive frame! Taping a drill to it, not so much :no:

avgas
20th April 2012, 22:20
Hmmmmm I can actually see that working for me (like of the power drill as an 'assist' for a gravity trike. BanditRider where'd you find that?

bogan
20th April 2012, 22:40
Hmmmmm I can actually see that working for me (like of the power drill as an 'assist' for a gravity trike. BanditRider where'd you find that?

I reckon it'd be cool run a pedal generator with full electric drive, just pedal at the most efficient RPM for the whole trip (even when stopped at lights), and enjoy faster acceleration and regen to maximise travel efficiency.

bogan
22nd April 2012, 09:21
How about this one then!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/x2DgwY5QQBk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

banditrider
22nd April 2012, 17:16
Yeah, saw that one a while ago. Not thinking of doing the Dragon's Den thing are ya?

banditrider
12th March 2014, 18:23
Hey Bogan!

cmG85s2oT8s

bogan
12th March 2014, 19:03
Neat!

Hopefully this year mine will get a battery upgrade...

MENTAL490
31st March 2017, 21:30
Have finally got my electric conversion of a KR-1 going, still some tweaking and testing required but happy with the progress. One design constraint I had was to make it look good, none of this square battery poking through frame/fairing BS, and I think I've achieved that :D

anyone can talk to me bout having a go on it too :yes:

WOW looking at these pic's brings back memories, I must admit my kr1 was my fav 2 stoker, not sure how much you have ridden it so a little heads up, put a better stand on it, the wind used to blow mine over till i got sick of repairing the fairings and mode'd the stand.

Great project tho :Punk:

bogan
4th April 2017, 20:05
All them batteries significantly lowered the center of gravity, not much chance of the wind blowing it over! (especially not now since the batteries flogged out and it resides in the back of a shed)

Wired1
6th June 2017, 20:27
I'm currently scheming to build an electric motorbike and stumbled across this thread. Are then any updates on this bike on any other electric bike conversions?
Battery technology had progressed a lot in the last ten years and hub motors are getting more powerful.

bogan
6th June 2017, 21:05
I'm currently scheming to build an electric motorbike and stumbled across this thread. Are then any updates on this bike on any other electric bike conversions?
Battery technology had progressed a lot in the last ten years and hub motors are getting more powerful.

Nothing yet, am vaguely looking into battery options still; imports of any lithium stuff is pretty much by sea only now (due to overzealous pencil pushers), which means larger order sizes and longer to wait.
Not a big fan of hub motors due to their increase in unsprung weight (yes I know I put my motor in at about 30% unsprung).

I've heard of a few conversions being done down your way, have you got a donor bike lined up?

Wired1
6th June 2017, 22:25
Nothing specific yet.

It needs to be 72v minimum to get me to the 100kph range and 96v would be nice but that is 8 x 12v batteries and that is a large frame area. The full-fairing bikes look like an easy way to hide the batteries and if you use AGM deep cycle batteries they are smaller and lighter so you could do a smaller frame but with the motor in the frame too you are looking for a 650cc plus bike to fit it all in. I like the look of the bigger jap 750-four frames so I will keep an eye out for a suitable donor bike in the south island. I only want to spend $1000 to $1500 for the donor so I will wait for one close to home.

I like the cylindrical LiFePO4 cells and at 3.2v per cell you only need 24 of them to get 72 volts (or 30 to get 96v). They are still a bit pricey if you want the higher capacity cells like 70aH plus so might need to wait for them too. And they are hard to ship as you pointed out above. AGM lead-acid batteries are a good affordable option and have high capacity for the size and weight so I might do that but they are harder to fit in than the cylindrical cells.

The pros for the hub motors are the space saving in the frame and less losses in the transmission of power through the chain/sprocket etc.
It is hard to get a hub motor big enough (I reckon 10kW is the go) and then hard to find one that will take a proper back tyre size so it might be either wait for the technology to catch up in another year or go with the 6" motor behind the swing-arm pivot many e-bike builders follow.

For motors in general I think the less parts the better so brushless DC (basically a 3 phase induction motor) is the best way to go and I think it was this thread that convinced me to go for regenerative braking. The latest hub motors are just this and sop are some of the ETEK type motors. The control is a bit tricky but you can buy all the bits as kits.

I still have another bike in the queue before this project so it is early days yet but I am impressed with the speed and range the commercial e-bikes are achieving now. Not sure how far you have to travel to buy a Zero but it's probably Aussie.

Honest Andy
7th June 2017, 07:37
Casual musings...
When you stack your batteries in like bricks do you need to worry about heat build up?
If you use a hub motor will the extra weight affect suspension response?
:scratch:
(I probably should be thinking about my OWN projects... )

Wired1
7th June 2017, 20:31
Casual musings...
When you stack your batteries in like bricks do you need to worry about heat build up?
If you use a hub motor will the extra weight affect suspension response?
:scratch:
(I probably should be thinking about my OWN projects... )

The hub motor weight would have to change the way the swing arm moves and alter your sprung weight too so I guess moving the motor onto the wheel would mean you should use lighter shocks. Then again the batteries are bloody heavy so maybe not.
I'd like to keep the batteries as low as possible and a number of bikes you see on YouTube racing around race tracks at 200kph have very tall stacks of batteries in them - not so sure they would handle all that well. But you gotta put them somewhere. Maybe the traditional frame shape isn't the best way to build an electric motorbike - then again, I do want it to look like a motor bike.
It looks like the heat build up is an issue from looking at overseas builds and the spacers some of them are putting in their stacks. Stacking them up to face the wind where your cylinder jugs used to go has to be the best option for air cooling.

jonbuoy
8th June 2017, 03:10
Is there a reason no one is using 18650 cells that Tesla use?

Wired1
8th June 2017, 07:17
Is there a reason no one is using 18650 cells that Tesla use?

The sheer number of cells? The 18650 cells are 3.2v so for 72v you need about 23 of them per battery.
Then to get 50Ah (the 18650 are about 2.8ah each) you would need to multiply that by 18 so 18 x 23 = 414 cells.
They are cheap at about $2 per cell so under $900 for a battery.
And they would fill every nook and cranny you wanted to pack them into, might have to look into them.
I wonder how hot they get?

I like the look of the 60280 cells 3.2v 65Ah cylinder but at around $85 each that is about $2000 for a battery.

bogan
8th June 2017, 19:33
AGM are pretty rubbish for longeivity, that is what I used initially and they just didn't have the grunt, and quickly lost capacity; might be different if you overspec by a large margin though. Yeh 3phase motor kit with regen would be the way to go if I were doing another one.

18650 and 26650 cells are used a bit, you can get off the shelf cell spacers and weld tabs etc. So it's not that hard to build a large pack, BMS is a little trickier though as it necessitates a lot of cells in parallel.

For any cell, make sure to look at the C-rate, otherwise some packs will have the total kwhrs you need but not the kws.

jonbuoy
10th June 2017, 17:37
The sheer number of cells? The 18650 cells are 3.2v so for 72v you need about 23 of them per battery.
Then to get 50Ah (the 18650 are about 2.8ah each) you would need to multiply that by 18 so 18 x 23 = 414 cells.
They are cheap at about $2 per cell so under $900 for a battery.
And they would fill every nook and cranny you wanted to pack them into, might have to look into them.
I wonder how hot they get?

I like the look of the 60280 cells 3.2v 65Ah cylinder but at around $85 each that is about $2000 for a battery.

Using Panasonic ones in a few projects the capacity is a bit over exaggerated in a lot of the cheaper knock offs. I believe Tesla surround the cells with some kind of fire retardant coolant fluid. Might be possible to air cool them - plenty of gaps between the cells. Not sure about moisture causing issues?

A decent battery pack will make a huge difference to useability.

jonbuoy
10th June 2017, 17:44
You could probably use high voltage transformer oil, pump and radiator.