National opens ACC to private sector [Archive] - Page 2

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avgas

20th January 2011, 08:05

Nahhhh, that's what Umbrella Companies are for :shifty:
But don't worry, the blanket agreements will keep you warm.

RiderInBlack

20th January 2011, 11:22

I wonder what the nurses whom have left NZ thing about ACC becoming privatized? Seeing as most have gone to countries where it is privatized (or semi-privatised like Aussie).I'll bet almost none of them. All the Nurses I know that have gone overseas, have gone chasing promises of better pay. Yet we have almost more overseas born nurses working in my ward now than NZ born Nurses. They have come here for the life-style that we take for granted. A life-style that we are loosing one piece of Legislation at a time. Wake-up NZ.

mashman

20th January 2011, 14:37

Raise costs cut services... its the Capitalist way

Stuff Article (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/4559543/ACC-cuts-surgery-to-thousands)

That may as well have been written about any insurance company :rofl:... let's just fuck the brand a bit more and add a few "privisos" in there, so that the people get used to receiving treatment that reflects both public and private sector "schemes"... gotta feel for those who pay their levies and still get told to fuck off...

avgas

20th January 2011, 15:28

I'll bet almost none of them. All the Nurses I know that have gone overseas, have gone chasing promises of better pay. Yet we have almost more overseas born nurses working in my ward now than NZ born Nurses. They have come here for the life-style that we take for granted. A life-style that we are loosing one piece of Legislation at a time. Wake-up NZ.
The overseas ones coming here is a no brainer.
Less Population.
Better access to better countryside.
Better place to raise kids.

I doubt many would come here for free healthcare......why not Canada, China.....

However the ones we are losing overseas, for better pay.......would they come back if they got it here?
If they were paid more would they stay?

Can they receive more pay if it stays under government control?

StoneY

20th January 2011, 15:42

Can they receive more pay if it stays under government control?

Mate I just escaped a tenure at MOH so have a pretty solid view on the situation coming
The incomong CEO is a well known axe man who cut Scotlands health system to shreds, axed THOUSANDS of Nurses in Scotland and got a huge bonus for doing so................

Brian d marge

1st February 2011, 16:37

On national radio today

The price of water in the new Super city has gone up

if that true

Good luck with the the coal

Which I might add is underneath a nice bit of land , just need to open it up for mining and J Brown-lee is just the man !

Stephen

davebullet

1st February 2011, 18:04

Oscar

1st February 2011, 19:26

spacemonkey

1st February 2011, 19:41

? How is the price of water in Auckland relevant to the partial privatisation of ACC?

I can only guess that he is using it as a generalisation as to the post ACC privatization future?

Something along the lines of........
Super shity (err sorry super CITY) was sold as being a rationalisation that would cut overhead and therefore cut costs, watercare has now post amagamation put it's prices up, so that line was obviously bullshit.
When they try to sell ACC it will be sold as a great thing as being a private company it will be cheaper cos private companies are great at cutting cost....So this will deliver the best cost to benefit ratio! However as this line by the National/ACT has failed in AK it must therefore fail in ACC.

I think that's what he was trying to point out????
I'm probably very wrong though..... I usually am when trying to mind read, just ask any of my Ex's! ;)

Brian d marge

1st February 2011, 20:53

I can only guess that he is using it as a generalisation as to the post ACC privatization future?

Something along the lines of........
Super shity (err sorry super CITY) was sold as being a rationalisation that would cut overhead and therefore cut costs, watercare has now post amagamation put it's prices up, so that line was obviously bullshit.
When they try to sell ACC it will be sold as a great thing as being a private company it will be cheaper cos private companies are great at cutting cost....So this will deliver the best cost to benefit ratio! However as this line by the National/ACT has failed in AK it must therefore fail in ACC.

I think that's what he was trying to point out????
I'm probably very wrong though..... I usually am when trying to mind read, just ask any of my Ex's! ;)

The force is strong in you young Jedi

anyone under the age of 21 on a 600 or greater ,,, start saving now

Stephen

oh and I haven't forgotten about putting everything in one document ,,, I just havent had time to give it Justice

spacemonkey

1st February 2011, 20:59

Oscar

1st February 2011, 21:13

I can only guess that he is using it as a generalisation as to the post ACC privatization future?

Something along the lines of........
Super shity (err sorry super CITY) was sold as being a rationalisation that would cut overhead and therefore cut costs, watercare has now post amagamation put it's prices up, so that line was obviously bullshit.
When they try to sell ACC it will be sold as a great thing as being a private company it will be cheaper cos private companies are great at cutting cost....So this will deliver the best cost to benefit ratio! However as this line by the National/ACT has failed in AK it must therefore fail in ACC.

I think that's what he was trying to point out????
I'm probably very wrong though..... I usually am when trying to mind read, just ask any of my Ex's! ;)

? So the water supply in Auckland is is private hands?

davebullet

1st February 2011, 21:32

Just out of curriousity does any here actually think that as a private or public/private partnership* company ACC will cut that profit margin?

* I'm guessing that'll be the first move, make it a PPP

I was involved in an RFP process last year looking at IT systems to manage claims. That's exactly what is planned. There will be no migration of old claims from ACC to private operators as I understood it at the time. It was all new business only.

Brian d marge

1st February 2011, 21:36

? So the water supply in Auckland is is private hands?
Looks like it to me

Web feet , wings , floats on water

pretty much looks like a duck

Snip from Watercares web site
Watercare Services Limited (Watercare) is required to prepare and deliver to its
shareholders, no later than 30 June in each year, a Statement of Corporate Intent (SCI)
for the three year period commencing 1 July.
The SCI is the public and legislative expression of Watercare’s accountability to its
shareholders. It is the contract between Watercare’s Board of Directors and its
shareholders, and it is against this document that the Board reports to the shareholders
and is held accountable. The SCI identifies the nature of Watercare’s business and its
strategic and operational issues. It sets the expectations of Watercare by the
shareholders, and provides a tangible record of Watercare’s performance by setting
performance targets against which the Company must report.

but then I could be wrong

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gmF_yXQkVh0" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

Stephen

Winston001

1st February 2011, 22:09

A Witch A Witch!! No - wait

Winston001

1st February 2011, 22:30

ACC was very profitable when privatised in the late 90's.

The average general insurance company spends between 90 and 96 cents of every dollar of premium earned.

One particular insurance company was only spending 78 cents for every $1 of ACC premium collected in the 90s.

No wonder private insurers are champing at the bit. Dog eat dog.

Sorry mate but nonsense.

Firstly ACC was opened to competition - not privatised - in 1999. That lasted 3 years to 2001 when the Labour government transferred accident cover back to ACC exclusively.

Secondly the insurance companies never had long enough to work out what was profitable and what wasn't.

Thirdly - and this is a telling point - one large insurer HIH went into liquidation afterwards. Bellyup. Huge ructions in Oz at the time. Clearly they didn't do very well from covering accidents in New Zealand.

rustic101

1st February 2011, 22:34

The sooner this happen the sooner we get transparency rather than the way Labour were using ACC as a pseudo Benefit system, all the while playing ACC of the market...

rustic101

1st February 2011, 22:49

The incomong CEO is a well known axe man who cut Scotlands health system to shreds, axed THOUSANDS of Nurses in Scotland and got a huge bonus for doing so......

Why do people fail to mention that his change to the Scottish Hospital System, including trimming the fat, was praised by the Nurses Union (UNISON) and that the systems now in place are more efficient and effective?

I've witnessed the inefficient operating model and practices of MoH and wider NZ hospital system. It and and they are long overdue a significant axing. The Govt culture is grossly over populated and heavy, including contractors employed for well over two years with little or no output. The previous Govt were responsible for this over population and the current Govt trying to rain in the spending, our tax's to filter into essential services . I know of three individuals at MSD National Office as an example sharing the same role....

RiderInBlack

2nd February 2011, 05:12

The sooner this happen the sooner we get transparency rather than the way Labour were using ACC as a pseudo Benefit system, all the while playing ACC of the market...Transparency from Private Insurance Companies:shifty: Sweet party at rustic101's place, cause a Milk tanker has just arrived there full Tui's.

StoneY

2nd February 2011, 07:38

Why do people fail to mention that his change to the Scottish Hospital System, including trimming the fat, was praised by the Nurses Union (UNISON) and that the systems now in place are more efficient and effective?

.

And the fact the Scottish Public for the first time ever faced 18 month waiting lists for URGENT surgeries is a moot point then, post the cuts?
Mate I expected better research from you of all people.....

I just finished a contract at MOH last November- very hard working organisation that gets nothing but blame -

They are dreading this guys arival - wait and see how our already overburdened hospitals deal with 1200 less nurses dude..........
Everyones so fast to condemn Labour policies, while National sell our assetts, cut our resources...this will result in people dying while waiting for surgeries etc

Even the Doctors are dreading the cuts this dudes gonna impliment
Bah humbug.

Ocean1

2nd February 2011, 16:30

RiderInBlack

2nd February 2011, 16:40

They are dreading this guys arival - wait and see how our already overburdened hospitals deal with 1200 less nurses dude..........

Even the Doctors are dreading the cuts this dudes gonna impliment
Bah humbug.Aye, I'm already doing a lot of unpaid overtime as a RN thanks very much ta getting tight fisted. The House Officers (Young new-be DC's) are already under-staffed and over work. All I get from MOH is more F*cken Paperwork. If the Scot CEO wants ta trim the fat, then he can start with himself and then cut the paperwork down. Less paperwork = less Bureaucrats = less costs & more time for Hospital staff to look after Patients.

MSTRS

2nd February 2011, 16:52

I had this mad idea that the health system was there for the benefit of the patients.
Should I forward this to Ripley's?

pete376403

2nd February 2011, 19:19

Some of you guys might be a little young to notice a pattern, here.

It goes like this:

Labour gets in, spends up large. The books look bad, Labour gets slung out on it's arse.

National gets in, cuts spending to make ends meet. The peasants revolt, National gets voted out.

One requires no further insight to explain NZ politics.

Now go play on the motorway the lot of you.
It works the other way too. You may be old enough to recall the fourth labour govt (1984 - 1990) and the financial mess they (Labour) inherited from National. There was a major run on the New Zealand Dollar caused by the constitutional crisis following the election, when outgoing Prime Minister Robert Muldoon refused to devalue the New Zealand dollar.

It's not all one-sided.

Ocean1

2nd February 2011, 19:28

You may be old enough to recall the fourth labour govt

I am. Old enough in fact to be quietly pleased to have forgoten most of it.

It's not all one-sided.

I didn't suggest it was the complete picture. There's occasional departures from the generic script but the normal programe is invariably restored pretty much immediately following any aberations.

Winston001

2nd February 2011, 19:52

When they try to sell ACC it will be sold as a great thing as being a private company it will be cheaper cos private companies are great at cutting cost....

Yeah this is a common misunderstanding of private vs public. Private business must operate profitably to survive, which means being efficient and focused. That is not cost-cutting. Instead the attitude is to get the clearest result for the dollar spent.

By contrast public organisations (and business monopolies) don't have to concentrate on every dollar spent. They certainly try but if expenses blow-out, they just ask/charge more. No consequences either. We cannot escape them.

Brian d marge

3rd February 2011, 01:15

It works the other way too. You may be old enough to recall the fourth labour govt (1984 - 1990) and the financial mess they (Labour) inherited from National. There was a major run on the New Zealand Dollar caused by the constitutional crisis following the election, when outgoing Prime Minister Robert Muldoon refused to devalue the New Zealand dollar.

It's not all one-sided.
You mean the business round table in disguise, that led to Mr Krieger ,and Mr John it wasn't me Key . selling NZ well short

Stephen

Ps , I REALLY want to be a politician, Im not good at the lyin thing , but I can and have been known to talk whole legs off Donkeys
think of the money ........:yes::shit:

RiderInBlack

3rd February 2011, 06:42

OK back on track. Just received this from ACC Futures (info@accfutures.org.nz) :


Welcome to the first newsletter of the ACC Futures Coalition for 2011 and to the campaign to keep ACC as a publicly-owned single provider committed to the provision of injury prevention, treatment, rehabilitation and ‘no fault’ compensation social insurance system for all New Zealanders.

Thank you for signing up to support the campaign. We are group of affiliated organisations and individuals who want an ACC scheme that operates on the basis of its founding principles of:
· Community responsibility – we must look after all those who, through injury, are unable to contribute to the welfare of the community
· Comprehensive entitlement – all injured persons must be covered by the community funded scheme on the same uniform basis
· Complete rehabilitation – promotion of rehabilitation to the fullest possible extent
· Real compensation – compensation must be meaningful
· Administrative efficiency – speed, consistency, economy and lack of dispute should characterise the collection of funds and their distribution as benefits

Accordingly the Coalition is opposed the current government’s direction on ACC which over-emphasises the insurance aspects of the scheme and undermines the social aspects of the scheme. We are dismayed at the run down of the scheme over the last two years and the proposals to privatise some of the ACC accounts.

You can help us right away by
1. Signing up to our Facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/ACC-Futures-Coalition/138653329522341) if you haven’t yet
2. Signing up to our web site (http://issues.co.nz/accfutures/Support+Us) support page if you haven’t yet
3. Spreading the word among your friends and networks to do the same
We need as many people as possible to sign up.

Stocktake Released – Privatisation announced
Just before Christmas the government finally released the report of the group undertaking the stocktake of the ACC accounts. It is a huge document and we are currently analysing it to try and understand the full implications. However main points include:
· The government intends to privatise the work account following the next election by opening it up to competition with private insurers. Work is already underway to make this happen
· They intend to extend the Accredited Employer scheme which enables larger employers to self-insure and manage their own workplace accidents rather than signing up to ACC
· Related to this we will see greater use of private third party administrators (TPAs) in the management of individual cases. TPAs have a bad track record
· Removing the Disputes Resolution Services Ltd (DSRL) from the ownership of ACC to improve independence. This may be a positive move

We will provide more information once our analysis is completed but in the mean time we are working to oppose the moves to privatisation and the greater use of TPAs.

Election year seminars
The Coalition is intending to organize seminars in Auckland (in conjunction with the School of Business at Auckland University), Wellington and Dunedin. We are inviting representatives of the political parties to outline their policies and they will be supports by a range of expert speakers.

These have not been finalized. Dates, venues and speakers will be announced once known. Keep an eye out for these.

Other campaign initiatives
It is election year and the ACC Futures Coalition will be working on other campaign activities to raise the profile of ACC as an election issue. We are interested in your ideas. Please send your thoughts to info@accfutures.org.nz (info@accfutures.org.nz)

Petition on hearing loss
ACC Futures Coalition affiliate the National Foundation for the Deaf (NFD) intends presenting a petition to the House of Representatives protesting against the government’s decision to discriminate against people with industrial noise induced hearing loss by disallowing cover under ACC for rehabilitation, until they prove they have at least 6% of sound injury hearing loss. This is a group of New Zealanders who do not have ‘comprehensive entitlement’.

You can read about this and download the petition forms by going to the NFD website (http://www.nfd.org.nz/)

Glenn Barclay
Convenor
ACC Futures Coalition
P.O. Box 5173
Wellington

info@accfutures.org.nz (info@accfutures.org.nz)

Worth a read. It is not all about Biker's Rego's. More is at stake..

StoneY

3rd February 2011, 06:48

Some of you guys might be a little young to notice a pattern, here.

Yes we do.
Every time a National govt gets in the workers of NZ get thouroughly shafted without any lube used.

Abuse Labour all you like for attempting to provide some sort of balance but at least they wont sell our tiuny little countries assetts off to thier round table mates

Ocean1

3rd February 2011, 08:02

Abuse Labour all you like for attempting to provide some sort of balance but at least they wont sell our tiuny little countries assetts off to thier round table mates

P'raps not, but you can't claim their fiscal policies don't generally make it nescessary for National to sell something when they eventually get the till drawer closed on their fingers. As you say, balance.

avgas

3rd February 2011, 09:02

Yes we do.
Every time a National govt gets in the workers of NZ get thouroughly shafted without any lube used.

Abuse Labour all you like for attempting to provide some sort of balance but at least they wont sell our tiuny little countries assetts off to thier round table mates
Are you sure about that?
I remember one was as bad as the other.
I don't remember there being the same government for my whole lifetime.....yet there are clearly sales for this whole period.

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/government/assets/saleshistory

avgas

3rd February 2011, 09:13

Less paperwork = less Bureaucrats = less costs & more time for Hospital staff to look after Patients.
Yes and No.
Also less traceability in some instances. Less transparency.

While I think that excessive paper work is bad. No paper work is worse. So its a fine line.

Last thing I want is some doc to open up the wrong leg due to missing form. Or a nurse giving me the wrong drip because a checklist was incorrect.

Also you can probably blame the legal teams rather than management - as I imagine 80% of that paperwork is to do with liability insurance more than anything else.

RiderInBlack

4th February 2011, 06:29

While I think that excessive paper work is bad. No paper work is worse. So its a fine line.WE have EXCESSIVE PAPER WORK. So much so that I can't get it all done and look after my patients at the same time. Please I didn't say no paperwork. It's important that I hit the floor knowing what I need to do to maintain my patients' safety, But I'd rather be late feeding the Computer & writing BS than leave my patients in Pain sitting in their own shit. If ya working as a Nurse in a Hospital, ya will know what I mean by Excessive Paper Work that is just BS-Butt-Cover for the legal protection which although it says we have done our job, it doesn't mean that it really happened that way.

As for National vs Labour, I don't trust ether of them. Pig Muldoon Left NZ with a shit load of debit from His "Think Big" and then NZ got Rodgered by Rodgernomics as Labour Sold Assets that would have had National envious. One Election Year National & Labour were so alike, that I voted Gillacutty Serious Party as a "F*ck Them All" vote.

I don't see Labour saying that they are going to return ACC to the "Woodhouse Principals" it was founded on in any of their Promises for this Election Year as yet. I might have to see what Jimmy A is offering this Election, or God Forbid go Green.