Welders

[cbfb]

I'm thinking of getting my hands on a welder, new or secondhand. Don't know a lot about them, had a go at arc welding years back, i was rubbish at it but guess I would improve with practice.

Question is, what do I go for, Arc, Mig, Tig etc? And what do I need to look out for? What's the benefits of say a Mig over an Arc welder? I've seen Arc welders advertised with different current ratings, what's the minimum I need?

Just need one for general welding. One thing particular I need to do is weld up some security bars for my workshop and storage room.

What can the different types of welder (and power ratings) handle in terms of material and thickness?

Am pretty clueless about this so any advice would be appreciated. Not really bike related I know but I figured there would be plenty of people on this forum who would be clued up.

EDIT: Forgot to say, budget is around a few hundy for a TM special. Is this realistic?

[Pussy]

Get yourself a little single phase Inverter DC welder. Go for a 150 or so amp. Then do a night course at your local tech to learn the basics.
Welding is easy when you have experience

[AllanB]

I've got Arc - basic stuff and the more you do the better you get. It is fine for security grills, trailers, I've made trailer cages, gates and outdoor furniture. BUT it does not like thin steel like exhaust pipe or similar.

I'd go Mig - point and squire after you have set it up correctly and it is more versitile. But a lot more expensive.

[cbfb]

Get yourself a little single phase Inverter DC welder. Go for a 150 or so amp. Then do a night course at your local tech to learn the basics.
Welding is easy when you have experience

Sorry to be thick but are you talking Arc, MIG, TIG there?


I've got Arc - basic stuff and the more you do the better you get. It is fine for security grills, trailers, I've made trailer cages, gates and outdoor furniture. BUT it does not like thin steel like exhaust pipe or similar.

I'd go Mig - point and squire after you have set it up correctly and it is more versitile. But a lot more expensive.

What sort of power does your machine kick out? Sounds like that's the kind of thing I'd be doing with it. What happens on thin steel, does it melt? Can't it be 'turned down' (sorry if that's a dumb question)?

I might need to weld aluminium at some point too, will MIG welders be OK for that?

[Pussy]

Sorry to be thick but are you talking Arc, MIG, TIG there?


I might need to weld aluminium at some point too, will MIG welders be OK for that?


Arc and TIG with the inverter welder (DC TIG only...steel, stainless, titanium etc)

And to MIG weld aluminium, you'll be shelling out a fair bit of coin to get a machine that is capable

[cbfb]

Arc and TIG with the inverter welder (DC TIG only...steel, stainless, titanium etc)

And to MIG weld aluminium, you'll be shelling out a fair bit of coin to get a machine that is capable

Cheers for that, what advantages does TIG have over Arc?

Will scrap the alu welding idea for now then, best start with the basics.

[SMOKEU]

I've done a welding course and I'd recommend a cheap arc welder if you're only going to use it on the odd occasion. It takes a lot of practice to get tidy welds, but you can always smooth out rough welds with an angle grinder and a file.

A mig welder probably isn't really worth buying unless you're planning on doing a fair bit of welding.

[lb99]

I got one of these
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Business-farming-industry/Industrial/Manufacturing-metalwork/Welders/auction-344022007.htm

found it in a skip, needed a forklift to get it out though.

Youngs model c arc welder. single or 3 phase, 20 to 180 amp.

I have sucessfully tacked 1.0mm steel with it. (not bad for a novice)

these welders are awesome, and it seems to have no duty cycle which is a bonus for novices like me who do more grinding than welding.

even at $150 would be excellent value, better than the cheapest from supercheap

heavy fucker though.

[cbfb]

I've done a welding course and I'd recommend a cheap arc welder if you're only going to use it on the odd occasion. It takes a lot of practice to get tidy welds, but you can always smooth out rough welds with an angle grinder and a file.

A mig welder probably isn't really worth buying unless you're planning on doing a fair bit of welding.

OK, probably worth doing a course before I get a welder then so I know a bit more about what they (and I) can do.


I got one of these
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Business-farming-industry/Industrial/Manufacturing-metalwork/Welders/auction-344022007.htm

found it in a skip, needed a forklift to get it out though.

Youngs model c arc welder. single or 3 phase, 20 to 180 amp.

I have sucessfully tacked 1.0mm steel with it. (not bad for a novice)

these welders are awesome, and it seems to have no duty cycle which is a bonus for novices like me who do more grinding than welding.

even at $150 would be excellent value, better than the cheapest from supercheap

heavy fucker though.

Yeah I saw some other old school welders on TM, often goes with the old workshop machinery you get a lot more for your money for stuff that's 30 yo. Might not look pretty but what does that matter.

[UberRhys]

I might need to weld aluminum at some point too, will MIG welders be OK for that?

Alu is a difficult one. To do this you will need an AC/DC TIG or a MIG with plenty of grunt. If you are only going to play around with Alu, don't bother. If you plan on doing quite a bit of Alu (building a boat etc...), then dive on in - but it comes with a cost.

If mild steel/stainless is all your going to do start with a cheap arc welder (140-170A). If you have the dosh get a MIG with at least 180A.

We sell quality 180A single phase MIG's for $1k including everything but the gas.

The best advice I can give you when you make a decision on what your going to buy is: (A) does it come with a warranty (B) who can service it (C) can you get spare parts for it easily.

Good luck.

[UberRhys]

I got one of these
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Business-farming-industry/Industrial/Manufacturing-metalwork/Welders/auction-344022007.htm

found it in a skip, needed a forklift to get it out though.

Youngs model c arc welder. single or 3 phase, 20 to 180 amp.

I have sucessfully tacked 1.0mm steel with it. (not bad for a novice)

these welders are awesome, and it seems to have no duty cycle which is a bonus for novices like me who do more grinding than welding.

even at $150 would be excellent value, better than the cheapest from supercheap

heavy fucker though.

Yeah these are awesome machines, all the old timers have stories about the quality of Youngs. I heard a story of one being lost in a river, recovered 400m down stream, being dried out next to a wood burner for a week and then bursting back into life like nothing had happened. Bullet proof!

[cbfb]

Alu is a difficult one. To do this you will need an AC/DC TIG or a MIG with plenty of grunt. If you are only going to play around with Alu, don't bother. If you plan on doing quite a bit of Alu (building a boat etc...), then dive on in - but it comes with a cost.

If mild steel/stainless is all your going to do start with a cheap arc welder (140-170A). If you have the dosh get a MIG with at least 180A.

We sell quality 180A single phase MIG's for $1k including everything but the gas.

The best advice I can give you when you make a decision on what your going to buy is: (A) does it come with a warranty (B) who can service it (C) can you get spare parts for it easily.

Good luck.

Nah I wasn't planning on doing a lot of alu, just intending to get a wee Fyran one of these days and thought it might come in handy for repairs/accessories. But sounds like it would be cheaper and easier to pay to have it done rather than buy a MIG welder, $1k is way out of my budget. Will stick to steel I think. Cheers for your advice :)


Yeah these are awesome machines, all the old timers have stories about the quality of Youngs. I heard a story of one being lost in a river, recovered 400m down stream, being dried out next to a wood burner for a week and then bursting back into life like nothing had happened. Bullet proof!

There's a couple of Youngs on TM at the moment $100 each, but pickup is in Taupo. Bit of a trek and can't imagine what postage would be! Will keep an eye out in Palmy.

[Indiana_Jones]

Greatest welder of all time...

http://www.everseradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/ba-baracus.jpg

-Indy

[cbfb]

Greatest welder of all time...

http://www.everseradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/ba-baracus.jpg

-Indy

Hell yeah :rockon:

[HQfiend]

Yeah these are awesome machines, all the old timers have stories about the quality of Youngs. I heard a story of one being lost in a river, recovered 400m down stream, being dried out next to a wood burner for a week and then bursting back into life like nothing had happened. Bullet proof!

Same goes for most of these old non solid state welders. Just a big transformer coil and a choke to regulate the output. Most high tech thing in them is the power switch!
Duty cycle is regulated by the need to change electrodes regularly.

If you just want to learn and poo steel together get one of these or similar, if you are going to do a lot of welding and have some skills get a mig. If you can't weld but want to give it the old kiwi backyard try don't try repairing an ali boat (otherwise there will be a thread on KB'er lost at sea!).
Oh and as Katman would infer Electricity will kill you so be careful and get training.

[cbfb]

Same goes for most of these old non solid state welders. Just a big transformer coil and a choke to regulate the output. Most high tech thing in them is the power switch!
Duty cycle is regulated by the need to change electrodes regularly.

If you just want to learn and poo steel together get one of these or similar, if you are going to do a lot of welding and have some skills get a mig. If you can't weld but want to give it the old kiwi backyard try don't try repairing an ali boat (otherwise there will be a thread on KB'er lost at sea!).
Oh and as Katman would infer Electricity will kill you so be careful and get training.

OK, sold on one of the old arc welders, will keep my eye out.

LOL yeah I guess boat welding is pretty critical, will leave that to the pros.

[cbfb]

A few of you have mentioned doing courses - I think that would be a wise decision, but can't find anything in the Palmy North area. Where did you do your course?

Actually there was one at UCOL but it cost $500ish over 8 weeks (1 evening per week). Seems a bit steep for learning to bog up a few bits and pieces. Maybe that was more a trade qualification.

Failing that if anyone in/near Palmy who knows how to Arc weld and wouldn't mind swapping knowledge for beer???

[HQfiend]

A few of you have mentioned doing courses - I think that would be a wise decision, but can't find anything in the Palmy North area. Where did you do your course?

Actually there was one at UCOL but it cost $500ish over 8 weeks (1 evening per week). Seems a bit steep for learning to bog up a few bits and pieces. Maybe that was more a trade qualification.

Failing that if anyone in/near Palmy who knows how to Arc weld and wouldn't mind swapping knowledge for beer???


I don't think they offer a home study course :p

As a thought though if your in fairly well with a local garage or muffler shop they may teach you the basics for a box of stubbies on a Friday afternoon.

[Winston001]

I'm very much like you. Did't know anything about welding but wanted to be able to give it a try. So I bought a simple stick (arc) welder from Mitre 10 a few years ago and never looked back.










Mind you, I'm now blind...........but the fun I had :D

[cbfb]

I don't think they offer a home study course :p

Ah why not? That's how I learnt to drive :shit:


As a thought though if your in fairly well with a local garage or muffler shop they may teach you the basics for a box of stubbies on a Friday afternoon.

Just been having a chat with one of the lads at work, he knows how to weld apparently (races drift cars) and is going to show me the basics.


I'm very much like you. Did't know anything about welding but wanted to be able to give it a try. So I bought a simple stick (arc) welder from Mitre 10 a few years ago and never looked back.


Mind you, I'm now blind...........but the fun I had :D

LOL if I'm going blind it won't be arc eye that causes it :gob:

[Grubber]

I got one of these
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Business-farming-industry/Industrial/Manufacturing-metalwork/Welders/auction-344022007.htm

found it in a skip, needed a forklift to get it out though.

Youngs model c arc welder. single or 3 phase, 20 to 180 amp.

I have sucessfully tacked 1.0mm steel with it. (not bad for a novice)

these welders are awesome, and it seems to have no duty cycle which is a bonus for novices like me who do more grinding than welding.

even at $150 would be excellent value, better than the cheapest from supercheap

heavy fucker though.

Bloody awesome welder those. spent my youth tacking up bike frames with one of those.


Greatest welder of all time...

http://www.everseradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/ba-baracus.jpg

-Indy

And how could this guy be wrong..

Honestly though, i would go with the inverter. Got one for work a year or so back and they are smooth as silk to weld with. Far better than the old arc. Cost is around $700 for a reasonable one.

[cbfb]

Honestly though, i would go with the inverter. Got one for work a year or so back and they are smooth as silk to weld with. Far better than the old arc. Cost is around $700 for a reasonable one.

Sorry to ask a dumb question but what's the difference between an Arc welder and an inverter? I was only aware of Arc, TIG and MIG welding and obviously wrongly assumed that inverters/arc welders were the same thing.

[Grubber]

Sorry to ask a dumb question but what's the difference between an Arc welder and an inverter? I was only aware of Arc, TIG and MIG welding and obviously wrongly assumed that inverters/arc welders were the same thing.

Inverter and arc are the same. One runs on DC current and the other on AC (someone tell me if i got that bit right)
Mig welder runs with a wire feeder and use gas as a flux (something like that).
I am no expert but i think i got it sort of right>:innocent:

[cbfb]

Inverter and arc are the same. One runs on DC current and the other on AC (someone tell me if i got that bit right)
Mig welder runs with a wire feeder and use gas as a flux (something like that).
I am no expert but i think i got it sort of right>:innocent:

Ah OK, that would make sense. From what I've read so far I figured I would get a single-phase DC Arc welder, around 160A - see I have been paying attention ;)

Really $700 though? I have been keeping an eye on TM and there's plenty around 2-300, what am I to gain by paying twice that? I'm only really doing a few bits in the workshop/house, not planning on welding frames together or making choppers etc.

EDIT: Forget that last paragraph - I realise now you're talking about inverters, which are more expensive than normal arc welders (which I had been looking at previously)....

[Vgygrwr]

I think most of the older welders use a bloody great transformer and rectifier to convert 50 cycle, 230 volt AC to high voltage constant current DC for arc welding an inverter is using electronic high frequency switching for the same thing. The collection of transisters etc is much smaller lighter then the bloody great coils of wire that make up large transformers, they are also much more efficient and I guess provide a more stable current for welding. Suspect they also cost more and have lots more bits to fail.

[Pussy]

I still have an Esab "Caddy" welder from my time in the trade. 130 amp inverter welder. They cost about $1800 in the early 90s.
I have spent all day in the fuel tank of the Sealord boat the "Thomas Harrison" when it was being refitted just after arriving in NZ, welding refidgerant piping and conduit that went through the tank. TIG root run on the piping, then 3.2mm Phillips 77 rods for the hot pass and cap. Was WELL over the duty cycle that the little welder was supposed to be subjected to. It's still going strong.
I would definitely recommend an inverter welder, even for a beginner

[cbfb]

I think most of the older welders use a bloody great transformer and rectifier to convert 50 cycle, 230 volt AC to high voltage constant current DC for arc welding an inverter is using electronic high frequency switching for the same thing. The collection of transisters etc is much smaller lighter then the bloody great coils of wire that make up large transformers, they are also much more efficient and I guess provide a more stable current for welding. Suspect they also cost more and have lots more bits to fail.

Thanks Vgygrwr that's a really useful explanation, I understand the differences now.


I still have an Esab "Caddy" welder from my time in the trade. 130 amp inverter welder. They cost about $1800 in the early 90s.
I have spent all day in the fuel tank of the Sealord boat the "Thomas Harrison" when it was being refitted just after arriving in NZ, welding refidgerant piping and conduit that went through the tank. TIG root run on the piping, then 3.2mm Phillips 77 rods for the hot pass and cap. Was WELL over the duty cycle that the little welder was supposed to be subjected to. It's still going strong.
I would definitely recommend an inverter welder, even for a beginner

Sulco has a little 130A inverter welder (http://www.sulco.co.nz/Product?Action=View&Product_id=31899), you reckon that would be suitable? Only thing I'm a bit concerned about is the question of whether inverters are going to cost more in servicing and be less reliable etc, what's your experiences there?

[Grubber]

Thanks Vgygrwr that's a really useful explanation, I understand the differences now.



Sulco has a little 130A inverter welder (http://www.sulco.co.nz/Product?Action=View&Product_id=31899), you reckon that would be suitable? Only thing I'm a bit concerned about is the question of whether inverters are going to cost more in servicing and be less reliable etc, what's your experiences there?

I say buy it.
They are very reliable. You won't have any problems at all. There is very little that can go wrong with them. Unless you drop them off a roof.....(don't ask how i know this):angry:

[Pussy]

Sulco has a (welder pic),you reckon that would be suitable? Only thing I'm a bit concerned about is the question of whether inverters are going to cost more in servicing and be less reliable etc, what's your experiences there?

I've not spent a cent on my Caddy. It was used in an industrial capacity for about 3 years

[cbfb]

I say buy it.
They are very reliable. You won't have any problems at all. There is very little that can go wrong with them. Unless you drop them off a roof.....(don't ask how i know this):angry:

Ouch :(


I've not spent a cent on my Caddy. It was used in an industrial capacity for about 3 years

All good cheers guys! Will go for one of those or similar...

Now to find a hiding place in the workshop... "What welder honey, that one? It's always been there" :innocent:

[lb99]

Ouch :(



"What welder honey, that one? It's always been there" :innocent:

WHAT?? why hide?

"what the hell is that on the ute?"
"duuuuuh, its a Honda, it says so on the tank"
(she shakes head)"another one, ffs"

is better to be upfront (then buy her some bling)

[cbfb]

WHAT?? why hide?

"what the hell is that on the ute?"
"duuuuuh, its a Honda, it says so on the tank"
(she shakes head)"another one, ffs"

is better to be upfront (then buy her some bling)

Yeah it's the lack of bling funds that are causing the issues, I get regular hints about engagement rings... i just keep thinking piston rings lol

[lb99]

make a ring outta welding rod.

I know a dude who's missus made him sell his bike, then she used the money to put a dance floor in his garage for the girls. :-)

his bike looks good in my shed though, lol

[cbfb]

make a ring outta welding rod.

Good idea, I'll knock up a coffin while I'm at it ;)