Progression of a total motorcycle noob

[Grantman_]

I had been toying with the idea of getting into motorcycles a few months back. I badly needed a release outside work, something to blow out the desk-job-cobwebs. Felt job was sucking away my youth/ having a midlife crisis 25 years too soon.

I had very little experience on two wheelers. About 2 minutes on an old farmbike in paddock when I was about 17 years old followed by about 10 minutes on a friend’s pit bike when I was around 21. Both times I had zero problems with balance or control so I knew I could ride.

Finally I got to the point were I decided to kick things into gear. I sat my basic skills and handling about 3 weeks ago. Was totally nervous about it beforehand given I was as inexperienced as anything. I went round to the local motorcycle shop a day beforehand to see the bike I’d be hiring for the test. Found it was brand spanking new with about 1 km on the clock. Uhhh Yikes!

In preparation I was reading swathes of information and how to’s, i.e. using the clutch, gear shifting, braking, etc etc. Read about countersteering, but didn’t understand it whatsoever. I also watched a heap of youtube tutorials to the point I had the theory of riding down pat to the point I practised getting on a ‘bike’ (a chair) from the left, kicking the stand up, turning the key and so on. All the bike’s control locations were memorised and I was ready.

Came basic skills and handling test day. I wheeled out the brand new bike ( I think it was a Suzuki Marauder 250 or something similar). Everything was exactly as I’d expected. Had a bit of a putter around the test area to get used to the bike before the examiner showed up. He arrived and we commenced the test. The whole test went off without a hitch. Awesome. Even though I only got up to about 20kmh, riding a proper road bike felt amazing. Riding in the breeze with just two wheels and a motor, man I couldn’t get enough of it. A few days later I did the theory and got my learners. No problems at all.

Next came the bike-to-buy search. Had zero knowledge on bikes, but I’m a research-a-holic when buying most things and hate having to ask questions and be spoon fed when I can dredge up the info myself. I already knew I wanted a sportbike because they look fast and awesome and hey I’m a guy. I liked the look of the Ninja 250r, but the more reading I did, and hearing from a friend that ‘250s have restricted power now’, the more I realised the Ninja wasn’t the answer. I wanted good value, maximum power, great reliability and so on. Reiterating power, wooyeah. I didn’t want to deal with 2 stroke maintenance so stuck to looking at the 4 strokers. Inevitably I ended up gravitating to the golden era of the 250cc sportbike 1989 – 93, the period before the 94 power restrictions came into place. From all my reading I was set on a Honda cbr250rr mc22. Gear driven cams, good reliability, fork spear largely guarded from rock chips inside fairing etc. Basically good design, great power @ 45hp and solid engineering.

I knew nervously in the back of my mind I’d have to ride the bike back from wherever I bought it. The fastest I’d been was perhaps 30-40km/h on the farm bike in the paddock long ago so had no experience riding on the highway. I knew I needed some practice beforehand. Thankfully I managed to wangle a ride on a friends 2008 Honda 125. Rather scary getting up to speed and past 70km/h on a somewhat bendy bit of road, but over about 20 minutes I found a feel for it.

So a few days later I ended up travelling down to Auckand to look at two bikes, plus 1 in Hamilton. First cbr250 had done under 10,000 k’s and when I gingerly rode it, it scared me! I didn’t even rev higher than 9-10,000, well away from the 19,000 red line. The bike was jumpy and putting on the gas slightly would have you surging away pretty quick even at low revs. I’m only about 65kg and it felt very pitchy and jerky for a learner like me. However, it only took a very short while for me to feel comfortable at speed on it vs my friend’s Honda 125 which I never felt all that good on. That cbr just wanted to zoom. The price was a bit outside what I wanted to pay for a first bike, but if the other two bikes weren’t up to it I was prepared to fork out.

The second bike had about 65,000 k’s on the clock, throttle handgrip would stick open and it just didn’t seem to have the urgency of the first bike. On to Hamiltron!

The perfect CBR250 awaited. 30,000 k’s, was imported by the local Honda dealer, one NZ owner who was the guy selling it who had himself done about 5,000 k’s. Top bloke and real honest. Said he had ridden it tapped out pretty much. Still had the factory chain, and the bike was in overall good nic cosmetically, better than the sub 10,000k bike. Best part was that he wasn’t demanding some ridiculous price for it and I got it for $3,800. He was genuinely a really good guy.

Was about a 2.30hr ride back from Hamilton through Auckland to where I was staying these holidays. Very uneventful but totally exhilarating journey. Slightly sore backside on the north side of Auckland so had a bit of a leg stretch then back on the bike. Body steered the whole way.

So I’ve now owned the bike one week, agonised and poured over countersteering theory, tried it out a couple of days ago and got the hang of how it worked over the course of several corners. Found this link quite good http://www.vf750fd.com/blurbs/countercode.html
Cornering improved 100x. I could hardly believe how much better cornering became. Transferring the automatic-for-many act of countersteering out of your subconscious into direct awareness allows you to fully exploit it. Body steering is like navigating a barge by comparison. Over the last week I have been working on smoothing out gear shifts, matching revs better, leaning further and so on. I’ve also been reading about “chicken strips” and two fingered braking to enable revs for downshift etc. I still haven’t made up my mind on clutchless shifting so still dutifully honing my clutchwork. Every time I ride it seems I’m exponentially expanding my ability. I don’t want to give the impression that I’m rash, although I’m not immune to rashness. I like to think things through beforehand, analyse, test things out and improve.

I find myself telling most of my friends they should get motorcycles. Since I’m so buzzing with bikes I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them did get their learner licenses.

Goes to show you don’t really need any experience to get into bikes. Give it a go, you don’t know what you’re missing out on if you’ve never ridden.

[Deano]

Good on ya Grantman. That brought back some fond memories.

[NinjaNanna]

oh my God, a coherent post from a new member, complete with correct spelling, punctuation and grammer.

There is hope.

Very enjoyable read, stay safe out there.

[Murray]

Good Read and well done.

Welcome to the world of motorcycles and all the freedoms it presents

Also welcome to KB, nice to have some intelligent, well written and interesting stuff to read for once.

[jtzzr]

Good post , Enjoy the riding experience, take it easy for awhile , try and find a mentor to help you out, I`m sure there`s someone willing to help you out up your way.

Just remember even a small capacity bike can spit you off the seat.

Ride safe mate.

[Owl]

Good on yer Grantman!:yes:

[wynw]

Nice one, welcome to the world of motorcyling and KB

[Gibbo89]

With all the study ans research he does, he knew that we'd rip on him if he had a shit first post.

Welcome to Kb, have fun.

[Fatt Max]

Great post mate, nice one.

Yep, it certainly is addictive. I am what you would call a late starter (as well as a fat bastard), getting into bikes in my 30's.

Yes, escape the office and get the breeze in your face, 100% with you there.

Enjoy the site and your bike, keep an eye out for a good mentor and never be afraid to ask for help and advice on this site, there are some brilliant people here.

And if you get the chance to come out on an organised ride, then do so and hook up with some of these people face to face.

Stay safe mate

[p.dath]

It's great that you had so much fun. How did you go buying your gear?

[Grantman_]

It's great that you had so much fun. How did you go buying your gear?

Had a quite a hassle with the gear really. Used Trademe to buy a damaged Kylin flip up helmet for $40 odd, two sets of riding pants @ $20 & $110, and CNELL riding boots for $35.

The pants were too big so resold at $1 reserve and got more for each than what I paid for thankfully. Still, a pain in the neck getting wrong sizes. Speaking of neck pains, the helmet was honestly a piece of garbage. The chin strap was rough and was positioned awkwardly rearward. The strap wanted to dissect my neck and pass through under my ears rather than go round the front. Felt truly horrible. Additionally, according to the youtube sizing vids I'd seen, it was definitely too big. So another annoying hassle but managed to resell for what I'd paid for it.

While I was in Auckland I visited cycletreads (found thanks to kiwibiker search function) and picked up a nice black gloss LS2 for $120 odd. The LS2 is an infinitely better helmet. Night and day quality vs that Kylin. Good quality all round.

Still needed riding pants so found some padded leathers on trademe for $70. They are slightly too big but what the heck. They have a zip at the back for combining with a jacket but I need a belt loop there instead. Gonna have to get one sewn on.

Black leather jacket $80 new, not padded though. Bought off brother who isn't a biker but had nabbed it for customising into some fashion piece but never actually got round to it.

[scumdog]

Good one!

Keep us posted - and treat EVERYBODY else on the road as if they are mad and have no eyes or brain, it will help you to survive.:yes:

[Toaster]

I had been toying with the idea of getting into motorcycles a few months back. I badly needed a release outside work, something to blow out the desk-job-cobwebs. Felt job was sucking away my youth/ having a midlife crisis 25 years too soon. ....

I find myself telling most of my friends they should get motorcycles. Since I’m so buzzing with bikes I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them did get their learner licenses.

Goes to show you don’t really need any experience to get into bikes. Give it a go, you don’t know what you’re missing out on if you’ve never ridden.


Good on you for getting into motorcycling. I started post-30 and really enjoyed the journey. Keep up the riding and get out there and ride socially when you can. Social rides are great for networking, learning new stuff and looking at others bikes.

[cheshirecat]

What a great post

these are not too bad
corner braking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8pnaRpDU1A&list=PLEB4B17A7836BAAC3&index= 0)

and

slow turning/counter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAar19KQK18&list=PLEB4B17A7836BAAC3&index= 1)

and when you get it right

these guys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Vsnw1u5g4&list=PLEB4B17A7836BAAC3&index= 4)

and last but not least this UK bke cop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4hDuPYBQVs&feature=autoplay&list=PLEB4B17A7836BAAC3&index=3&playnext=1) stuff

Did a course with them when i was 17ish and it kept me out of no end of trouble

Happy riding

[Grantman_]

Cool. I saw the first and last vids during learning frenzy, but the slow turning one I'll have to try out soon.

[kilgh]

Thanks for that link Grantman.

I'm a fellow novice. But have had the luxury of affording all new gear, so that meant an easier time of it.

[Grantman_]

Hi fellow nooblet

Yeah I could have got new gear but I'm cheap, plus I had a bit of time on my hands before getting the bike so shopped around a bit.

forgot to mention I also got some dri-rider gloves off trademe which love to transfer ink to my palms. Hands end up looking real grubby. Might have to put them through the wash a few times or something.

[Grantman_]

Thought I'd update what's happened in my biker progression. Didn't quite go a month after the bikes purchase before I outpaced my ability and crashed. Took a corner a smidge too fast and instinctively braked. Doing this stood the bike up and lost the lean needed to get round the corner. Braking instead of countersteering. Not good. I ended balancing a tight rope for a good second which was the far left white line. Unfortunately I was rolling over the line. Speed was about 30-40k's by that stage. The front wheel touched the gravel, the bike washed out and skidded about 3 meters along the narrow verge and over a 4 meter bank smashing down into a creek in the gorge below as I watched. It impacted on its front right headlight region. Had to get a tow truck to winch it out. Managed to jump start the bike and ride it a few k's back to where I was staying. Looking at the bike it seemed a miracle it started. I was wearing leathers, boots and gloves. I only had a bit of a bruise on my right ankle where the bike low sided on it, and about a 50c size mild road rash on my hip. Leathers got some superficial scraping and a ripped right glove palm. Pays to wear all the gear.

The right hand side peg and rear brake were broken off. The front fairing was destroyed, right fairing extremely scraped and split up, one headlight smashed but the other basically intact. The instrument bracket was bent up, brake lever bent, carbon fibre muffler smashed, front cowl brace / rear view mirror mount bent.

So since The end of Jan I’d been sourcing parts all over. Hong Kong, US, NZ. Found an absolutely top notch supplier for aftermarket, factory fairings on trademe – racerevolution. They’re so good I reckon Honda sold their tooling to that guy.

It was thoroughly depressing not being able to ride while waiting for parts. In the down time I bought myself a book, Total Control: High Performance Street Riding Techniques, to keep my riding fever occupied. Fairly good book. Some decent tips in there. During this time I developed an insatiable desire to get my knee down. Basically this was due to my inability to stop thinking about how far I could safely lean. Extent of lean is a huge question and until you know how far you can safely lean there’s always that distrust lurking there when you get some decent lean angle. I couldn’t see myself feeling properly comfortable on any bike without knowing it could lean right over without magically washing out on me for no reason. Getting the knee down is conquering this doubt and the fear of the unexplored. Bought myself some leather with sliders and decent knee armour in preparation.

Finally, just over a week ago, I had everything legal and looking good on the bike. Goodness knows how many k’s I’ve done since then. Had some sorely needed excitement back in my life. Today was another biggy. A few days ago I was told of a perfect patch of little link-road that’s pretty much unused in the evening. Managed to get my knee touchdown for the first time. What an absolute rush. I would have looked like an idiot kneeling on the footpath to aim my camera (to help me see if my form was right), but who cares. A moment to remember captured. Popped it up as new avatar.

So for anyone thinking about getting a bike, I’ve had a running machine a bit over 5 weeks altogether, accounting for when the bike was broke, and had no previous biking experience. What can I say, riding is a total blast and you've just got to have a go. Still a noob, getting better with time.

[sportsbikesrock]

Great thread. Pity about that tumble. I'm a noob too, found the counter steering article interesting. An MC22 as a first bike? I wouldn't mind one, there's a chance I could end up with one, but do they come with training wheels lol?

[Latte]

:corn:
.
<_<

[steelphoenix]

Awesome stuff dude, you seem to be taking to this like a duck to water!


Great thread. Pity about that tumble. I'm a noob too, found the counter steering article interesting. An MC22 as a first bike? I wouldn't mind one, there's a chance I could end up with one, but do they come with training wheels lol?
Training wheels, pfft! :bleh: MC22s rock! :Punk: (Yeah, my first bike is an MC22 as well.)

[p.dath]

I wouldn't worry about getting the knee down. You don't really need that skill for a long time to come ...

[Grantman_]

An MC22 as a first bike? I wouldn't mind one, there's a chance I could end up with one, but do they come with training wheels lol?

Wouldn't hesitate to recommend the MC22. Superb bike. Researched 250cc 4 stroke sport bikes to death before purchase. MC22 all the way, no doubt about it. Right on steelphoenix.

I'd rather have a bike with some room to grow into, and keep it until my full license. Rather this than have a bike I'd outgrow in a few weeks and end up feeling dissatisfied. Everyone is different though.

p.dath I touched down yesterday so there's no going back now! I wanted to lean with confidence rather than doubting. Knee down really helped in that department.

[Grantman_]

Things have progressed greatly since getting the knee down. Living fairly near the Mangamukas and buzing back and forth over them results in developing cornering and leaning technique super fast. Each pass brings a fairly solid injection of cornering experience. There's a good surface on that road now, a nice smooth coating on the loads of tasty hairpins.

The result of this is it's now straightforward getting the knee down all over the place, even without much speed like on those tight little roundabouts. My sliders are dissolving away. I feel far more confident/safer when cornering knowing that further lean is no longer shaky, 'unknown' terrirory.

Knee down may not be for everyone, but it sure has been fundamental to me and my riding.

[GPXchick]

sorry to hear about the crash......I just wanted to mention i don't put my knee down but definitely out towards where i'm turning, is this a bad habit i'm forming if anyone can offer a word.

[zeocen]

I'll probably get chewed for this, but if you're going knee down on the road - you're doing it wrong.

[Oblivion]

I'll probably get chewed for this, but if you're going knee down on the road - you're doing it wrong.

No you won't. Well not by me anyway.

I prefer to brake and then countersteer to work my way round the turn. Putting my knee down just feels kinda awkward.

[Smifffy]

Putting my knee down just feels kinda awkward.

Yeah but it looks so 'kewl' on youtube, and makes for great avatars!

:sunny:

[Grantman_]

I'll probably get chewed for this, but if you're going knee down on the road - you're doing it wrong.

I've filmed my form and it's A-okay. The Lee Parks book is detailed on what is and is not correct form. It's as simple as super tight corner = big lean = easy knee down opportunity without a blistering speed.

Anyone who has ridden the Mangamukas will know exactly what I mean. I've seen nothing like them anywhere, not that I've been far north too long. They are a real gem. Bitumen hairpins, great stuff.

[kilgh]

sorry to hear about the crash......I just wanted to mention i don't put my knee down but definitely out towards where i'm turning, is this a bad habit i'm forming if anyone can offer a word.

Yeah, I instinctively did that the other day too.

[davebullet]

sorry to hear about the crash......I just wanted to mention i don't put my knee down but definitely out towards where i'm turning, is this a bad habit i'm forming if anyone can offer a word.

I don't think sticking your knee out is bad form. I think the main thing is you weight the inside peg. This will shift your weight to the inside. Getting your knee out to be effective requires you to shift your bum off the seat (to the inside). But naturally letting your knee out is ok - as long as your inside leg is firmly planted on the peg. you just don't want it flapping around out there - lol

[hardy-DAYTONA]

Great thread mate! Sorry about the crash, I hope the two of you are OK.

You're not a total noob either. I am, however. I need to get on my bike and ride a bit more often, hopefully show my face a bit more around the forums too...

[YellowDog]

Don't put yourself down, you had an off.

Many of us have.

Learn from it and move on.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[Neon]

I'll probably get chewed for this, but if you're going knee down on the road - you're doing it wrong.

Agreed. Lee Parks has some good pointers in his book, but let's not forget the part where his knee-down activity is practiced in a car park under controlled conditions, and on closed roads (or the track).

If you are routinely getting your knee down on the road, you're on borrowed time. Lee Parks and Keith Code both talk about traction as a finite resource. Spending 100% of it cornering on public roads like Rossi will eventually end in tears, and probably someone elses. :bye:

Save it for the track. :yes:

[Neon]

I've filmed my form and it's A-okay. The Lee Parks book is detailed on what is and is not correct form. It's as simple as super tight corner = big lean = easy knee down opportunity without a blistering speed.

Anyone who has ridden the Mangamukas will know exactly what I mean. I've seen nothing like them anywhere, not that I've been far north too long. They are a real gem. Bitumen hairpins, great stuff.

Full credit for being fastidious about technique, I respect you for taking that initiative. But confidence is your frenemy. Take it easy man. :yes:

[avgas]

I've filmed my form and it's A-okay. The Lee Parks book is detailed on what is and is not correct form. It's as simple as super tight corner = big lean = easy knee down opportunity without a blistering speed.

Anyone who has ridden the Mangamukas will know exactly what I mean. I've seen nothing like them anywhere, not that I've been far north too long. They are a real gem. Bitumen hairpins, great stuff.
Watch out for that though.
I used to be "yeah man knee down is the shit" but it takes fuck all to fuck your knees for life on the road.

Catseye's, a gutter, a pothole...... and it feels like someone has taken to you knee with a sledge hammer. DAMHIK!
Now I don't put knee down that often in corner.......and surprisingly enough I corner faster, and actually get lower :shit:
My boots now get scraped more.

[avgas]

But confidence is your frenemy. Take it easy man. :yes:
What he said.
We are all "god-like" riders - until we crash.
Make sure you get the scars, but walk away.

[Expert]

sorry to hear about the crash......I just wanted to mention i don't put my knee down but definitely out towards where i'm turning, is this a bad habit i'm forming if anyone can offer a word.

It's naturally what's going to happen when you transfer your weight to the inside and your ass shifts over on the seat. It's not a habit, it's a technique. For sportier riding where you are pointing your shoulder into the turn your knee is gonna want to follow.
If you're confident to be moving your weight around on the bike and understanding how that changes the dynamic, then keep doing what you're doing.

transferring your weight to the inside allows you to keep the bike more upright, which reduces the shear effect/angle between the tyre and the road lessening the chances of a lowside, and stops your boots getting worn out :)

If anyone is considering getting a mentor, find someone that knows how to ride, not neccessarily someone that has been riding for a long time.
Lots of people have been riding for years and doing it wrong for years and then passing on their bullshit to new riders as gospel. this is bad.

Buying the biggest bike you can find when you pass your test is not good either, you can learn a lot about bike skills riding a small bike well and fast, than you can struggling with a heavy, overpowered intimidating bike. Go up in smaller stages.

Just because you've passed your test doesn't make you rossi. New riders, and born again bikers get into lots of trouble this way

[Camshaft]

nice first bike too!!!!!

[Smifffy]

Great thread mate! Sorry about the crash, I hope the two of you are OK.

You're not a total noob either. I am, however. I need to get on my bike and ride a bit more often, hopefully show my face a bit more around the forums too...

If you ever feel like riding with a nanna rider, hit us up. :)

[hardy-DAYTONA]

If you ever feel like riding with a nanna rider, hit us up. :)

That'd be awesome. I'm in Tokoroa with a 250cc and not a lot of experience under my belt, but I'd be keen!

[Grantman_]

Well another event in my progression has passed. Today I undertook my restricted license practical test. Passed without a hitch. Had powerful wind with flying rain now and then during the test. The examiner commented positively about my riding in the crazy wind. Uneventful test other than having to make a conscious effort to fully stop and put down both feet at stop signs - so they could see I'd fully stopped.

Have to say I'm chuffed and still very impressed with the CBR250RR as a first bike. That's after over 6 months of riding over 8,000k's, plenty of action blasting through the Mangamuka Gorge, and commuting as often as possible (commuting 100% now that my car is playing up). What a fine bike.

Just over a month back I made a video, somewhat of a tribute to the CBR250RR and the fun I've had on this bike. Most truly I needed this release outside work. Over the last 6 months, riding and motorcycles have really become a dominating pastime. In my opinion I couldn't have asked for a better start to riding, including that earlier accident.

Good times.





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[The Baron]

Thanks for that. It looks like you are having way to much fun. great vid.

[C.Linnell]

I've been itching to do the Mangamukas again since my first big bike ride in Jan 2000... and I'm finally going back this weekend.

Naturally, it's frickin' raining all weekend.

[Grantman_]

I've been itching to do the Mangamukas again since my first big bike ride in Jan 2000... and I'm finally going back this weekend.

Naturally, it's frickin' raining all weekend.

It's a big let down. I'm always hanging out for good weather in the weekends so I can have decent fun riding. It's frustrating but a this time of year, even when it's not raining, most of the Mangamukas are a bit damp. The overhanging trees and morning dew leaves a lot of dampness that doesn't want to leave.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Don't put yourself down, you had an off.

Many of us have.

Learn from it and move on.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

some, more than one.....

but yeah, what he said

[mikemike104]

Sweet vid man, nice work on the knee pads.

[Grantman_]

Well I’ve come to the end of the licensing process. Yesterday I got my full motorcycle license. No drama and no issues. Straightforward.

Given the cbr250rr mc22 was/is such a fantastic first bike I figured the CBR600RR would be a good progression. On top of that I did a solid amount of research on the supersports and found the 600RR stacked up well. Vehicle aesthetics bug me a lot, and this bike actually had a nose I could be happy with.

I’d been keeping an eye out for 600RR bikes for several months leading up to my full license test, and lo and behold one appears on trademe at a great price with spare fairings to boot. So straight after getting my full license I test rode and bought a 2006 CBR600RR. When I hopped on that bike to test ride, the first thing I noticed was how much higher the thing was. No more being able to flat-foot both feet for stopping or walking the bike back. It felt precarious compared to the 250. I haven’t ridden any bike other than my 250 since getting my learners, and before that I’d barely ridden anything at all, so man, the 600rr did feel high and weird.

But boy, it brought back the feelings of when I first rode my mc22. In the same ‘wooow’ manner, the bike just wanted to zoom. Playing with the throttle and feeling unfamiliar power bought everything back. I was a complete noob again. While I’m 100% comfortable on my cbr250 to the point of having gone through a bunch of knee sliders and grinding the pegs far too much, the 600RR felt very foreign and it’s going to take a few corners to get into the swing of things. I’m sure it won’t be long getting the feel, but knowing that 250cc me would cream inexperienced 600cc me in heavy twisties made me homesick for the mc22 again. You never really outgrow a bike like the mc22 if you’ve got a heap of hairpin twisties nearby - Mangamuka Gorge = mc22 natural habitat.

So yes, selling the mc22 or not. That’s the question. I’m loath to sell it because I can ride this bike to its potential, and I’ve come from being a complete bike noob to that point. What a journey. So yeah it’s not just a soppy emotional attachment. The bike really is excellent and I have only good things to say about it. Solid and reliable. But it’s hard to justify keeping two bikes with all the associated costs and finding room for them so I’ll have to sell.

[_Shrek_]

Don't put yourself down, you had an off.

Many of us have.

Learn from it and move on.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

+1

& don't worry about getting your knee down it will come in time if needed!! as some of us ride duel purpose & thats different again

[Grantman_]

260178

260179

260180

On the 18/1 I had a motorcycle accident, one week after purchasing the 600rr. I've been in bed since and have 5 weeks to go before walking. Busted left leg and pelvis. Would have died on the scene but an ambulance was minutes away on the same route and able to keep me as my pulse died. Unashamedly I give God the credit, as a Christian, for being alive today and with light injuries given the nature of the accident.

I've been told I slid out, for whatever reason, and ended sliding underneath a loaded logging truck chugging in the opposit direction up a winding section of road. All the wheels missed or I wouldn't be typing this. I finished up about halfway allong the vehicle having gone between the front wheels.

I could have tried to save my pride by keeping quite. I've seen a few accident threads here that go south fast, but it is good to be sobered up as a rider.

Be careful out there.

[crazyhorse]

Good on you - and its a lesson to us all :hug:

[ducatilover]

Fuck mate!
Heal up, learn and take it easy. :yes: :drinkup:
The bike can be replaced etc (you can also sell parts to me...that tail unit looks quite nice...:bleh:)

[Zapf]

Hope you are on the mend and will get your confidence back on a bike.

suggestion: have some more sticky tires next time. may just help. Those PR2's are good tires. but maybe not sticky enough.

PR3's or Angles or Z8's or M3's I would suggest.

[Zedder]

Welcome to motorbiking and thanks for interesting post.

[Zedder]

My apologies, wrongly posted.

[puddytat]

yep, look on the bright side ...youre alive & you've still got the 250....

[sil3nt]

This is your video isn't it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrUJZGTFImY

Where is Katman?

*edit*
Ah I see you also have this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ00EQ5ePvc

[BigAl]

Shit mate you are very lucky to be writing this after going under a truck.

Hope you recover quickly and get back in the saddle.

[Katman]

Now there's a surprise.

[GSF]

I'll probably get chewed for this, but if you're going knee down on the road - you're doing it wrong.

Agreed.

Amazing to hear of your accident and that you're still with us mate. Not many people slide under a logging truck and come out the other side.

I began at the start of this thread, and by the time I read the post about you crashing the 600 and almost dying I was completely unsurprised. Considering the fact that you were seemingly riding around putting a knee down on public roads at every possible opportunity, plus the Mangamuka video where you periodically cross the centre line on right-hand turns, even the overtaking maneouvre past that tanker (on a greasy road, looks like) left me feeling sketchy.

I'm not knocking you or your ability, man. I wish you all the best and a speedy recovery, and to see you out there on the road one day.

However I'm seriously questioning your approach to road riding, and the appropriateness of your riding style in the environments you've been doing it.

[nzspokes]

This is your video isn't it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrUJZGTFImY

Where is Katman?

*edit*
Ah I see you also have this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ00EQ5ePvc

Key point on the second vid. A corolla was the vid/chase car.

I think for this one he needs a Katmanning......

[_Shrek_]

[
On the 18/1 I had a motorcycle accident, one week after purchasing the 600rr. I've been in bed since and have 5 weeks to go before walking. Busted left leg and pelvis. Would have died on the scene but an ambulance was minutes away on the same route and able to keep me as my pulse died. Unashamedly I give God the credit, as a Christian, for being alive today and with light injuries given the nature of the accident.

I've been told I slid out, for whatever reason, and ended sliding underneath a loaded logging truck chugging in the opposit direction up a winding section of road. All the wheels missed or I wouldn't be typing this. I finished up about halfway allong the vehicle having gone between the front wheels.

I could have tried to save my pride by keeping quite. I've seen a few accident threads here that go south fast, but it is good to be sobered up as a rider.

Be careful out there.

as it's already been said your style of riding :facepalm: but you get a 2nd chance learn from it, (the Lord has plans for you) heal well & cya back out there

[zmlam]

Yikes.

thanks for sharing - if it was me, that kind of experience might totally put me right off riding! Mend/heal well - keeping you in prayers!

[Katman]

Hope you are on the mend and will get your confidence back on a bike.

suggestion: have some more sticky tires next time. may just help. Those PR2's are good tires. but maybe not sticky enough.

PR3's or Angles or Z8's or M3's I would suggest.

He could always try not riding like a twat.

[sil3nt]

I guess you can safely ride like that knowing God will protect you. I better keep my Sunday mornings free! I will be champ of the road to raglan in no time :woohoo:

[Zapf]

He could always try not riding like a twat.

I haven't seen his riding hence can't comment. If it was an issue it was well earned then. :innocent:

[Katman]

I haven't seen his riding hence can't comment. If it was an issue it was well earned then. :innocent:

Go watch his videos.

He was an accident waiting to happen.

[GSF]

I'm all for a spirited ride, but this is a reminder that the road is not a fucking racetrack or a playground.

I'm curious about one thing. You say that you got into motorcycling by yourself - did you ever go for rides with older, more experienced riders or mentors who gave tips on your riding style or form?

The reason I ask is because one of my first open road rides was with an older, much more experienced rider who was the person who got me into motorcycles. He rode behind me to watch my cornering and overall form.

On one bend on SH16 I entered a corner hot, outriding my ability. I had to lay the bike over further than I ever had before and shot through the bend, crossing the centreline at the apex and spending about half a second in the wrong lane - about two seconds later I passed a car going in the other direction. A few minutes later we pulled into one of those scenic sightseeing spots and as soon as we'd both taken off our lids and lit up a smoke he said "Congratulations, you just fucking died."

That little piece of advice has stuck in my head ever since. If you cross the centre line on a road like that you should be thinking to yourself, "Wow. I just got plowed head on by a cunt in a Toyota Surf riding the white stripes and now I'm dead."

Also naming a video "King of the Mangamukas" on a CBR250RR was kinda hilarious.

Rest up, get well and seriously reconsider your methods.

[Ender EnZed]

I haven't seen his riding hence can't comment. If it was an issue it was well earned then. :innocent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrUJZGTFImY

This video was made private within the last 20 minutes. It's called "King of Mangamuka Gorge CBR250RR" and has a timer running in one corner while he rides as fast as he can. It's not that he is absent all skill but he's obviously treating this road as much like a race track as it is possible to do so without deliberately crossing the centreline around blind corners. At about 2:41 he runs wide across the centreline with his knee down, it's obviously not intended.

[Zapf]

wide across the centreline with his knee down, it's obviously not intended.

I don't think any sane person would want to be at the limit of their control crossing the center line.

What if. Another rider was coming the other way hugging but not crossing the center line. :bash:

It has happened before.:facepalm: result is not pretty

For that very reason riding like that puts other riders like you and me at risk.

[sil3nt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrUJZGTFImY

This video was made private within the last 20 minutes. It's called "King of Mangamuka Gorge CBR250RR" and has a timer running in one corner while he rides as fast as he can. It's not that he is absent all skill but he's obviously treating this road as much like a race track as it is possible to do so without deliberately crossing the centreline around blind corners. At about 2:41 he runs wide across the centreline with his knee down, it's obviously not intended.Hate private videos http://youtu.be/_woswDPmGww

[Katman]

Nothing like a bit of time lying broken and bleeding in a hospital bed to reassess the stupidity of one's actions.

Think long and hard Grantman.

[Ender EnZed]

Hate private videos http://youtu.be/_woswDPmGww

It's not the full video, but how'd you do that?

[Dodgy]

Parhaps god was punishing you and made you fall off to teach you a lesson - don't be such a muppet on the road?

[sil3nt]

It's not the full video, but how'd you do that?Was in my cache from when I watched it. I probably didn't watch the whole thing which is why it is missing the last few minutes.

[willytheekid]

Get well soon Grant :yes:

...then, please!...get some rider training!! (seriously!)

Im sorry you had to learn the hard way mate, but riding like that on public roads is only EVER going to end in tears or death!
Please sit down and watch your own videos as proof!(your all over the road, jerky and focused on "gettin the knee down" for the camera :facepalm:)
Just ask yourself two things after watching those vids of your self...Am I riding safely?....and Am I riding smoothly? (the answer is NO to both by the way)

Your still a new rider!(It REALLY shows in those vids), and your self taught "read a book" riding skills, are not doing you any favours at all!:no:
Ive said it before and I will say it again...books can only teach you the theory! of riding, a professional riding instructor can put that theory into practice and teach you how to be fast, smooth and safe!
But above all...if you want to go fast, go to a race track!...there designed for speed and have run offs and gravel traps for "mistakes" (hence there safer!)

I truly do wish you the best Grant, and I hope you heal up quick...its never nice to see a rider injured and his bike destroyed.

Take care & I hope you get back in the saddle soon...then see a professional riding instructor (Worth every penny & lots of fun to:yes:)

:love: Willy

PS:Good on ya for sharing your accident with the KB community...some people on here need to see these results

[Katman]

Here's another video by Grantman. Generally boring as fuck, but if you fast forward to 4.25 and 8.55 there's a couple of interesting comments made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJM07EMh9Mo&feature=channel

How's that cesspit of hypocrisy going Grantman?


This thread hasn't served to show the 'folly of these sorts of group rides' or do any good whatsoever for that matter.

Quite the opposite. Chiefly it shows a cess pit of vindictive hypocrisy.

[kiwifruit]

Pilot road 2s on that 600RR? :facepalm:


Pilot roads are an ok tyre but not for a bike as light as your CBR600. They won't be working properly.
They're also quite "flat", lots of contact in a straight line, not a lot at max lean.

Incorrect tyres and erratic inputs would have been major factors in this "accident", imo.

[willytheekid]

Here's another video by Grantman. Generally boring as fuck, but if you fast forward to 4.25 and 8.55 there's a couple of interesting comments made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJM07EMh9Mo&feature=channel

How's that cesspit of hypocrisy going Grantman?

:facepalm:
Finished diggin?...you having fun kicking a fellow KB member while he's down?...how's that peddle stool of yours?

We are mean't to offer advice and support to young and new riders KM...not stomp the shit out of them when they screw up!
I understand your message KM (And practice it daily!)...but your sledgehammer delivery is not required mate.(Kids been hit hard enough don't ya think)

Advice and support!...and as I said to Grant...words don't teach safe riding skills...theory AND practical with a professional instructor do.
So why don't you get your rider training certs and get out there and make a difference!...instead of just talking about it and expecting things to change.

As always, Ride safe and take care KM :love: (but ease up on the kid mate)

(...still waiting on your riding vids!:laugh:)

[Katman]

We are mean't to offer advice and support to young and new riders KM...not stomp the shit out of them when they screw up!


My bleeding heart's all dried up Willy.

[willytheekid]

My bleeding heart's all dried up Willy.

:shit:...you had a heart once! :laugh:

I understand mate...even Im getting sick of reading these "Ive crashed" posts, and seeing the accidents & dangerous riding practices everyday!.
...I just feel sorry for the kid (I was an "informed" rider when I was younger...well...a bloody idiot actually:laugh:)

Have a safe and happy easter KM :love:

Willy

[caseye]

Watched the first vid then left the thread alone for a while, came back to see the results page.
Glad that you are still with us Grant.
Hope to hear that you are riding again one day and that you've taken some of the advice given in all seriousness here.
The reason I watched your first vid was to see if the words matched the image.
They didn't and I was concerned that the next vid would be of your funeral procession with some fool saying "he was an avid biker, good and safe" I would have puked then!
So you now have a chance to seek out someone who knows how to ride on our roads and who will quickly straighten out all these preconceived ideas of yours that the whole road is your to play with.
Get well soon an I look forward to your next post after getting back on a bike. I expect it to be a very different sort of vid if we ever see another one .

[ducatilover]

:shit:...you had a heart once! :laugh:



I think that was a joke?

[Kornholio]

Well, its been a couple of months... any updates on Valentino Grantman?

[Grantman_]

Back at home after 16 weeks of hospital. On crutches but won't be for long. Full recovery in time and perhaps coming to a track near you. Watch out!

[ducatilover]

Back at home after 16 weeks of hospital. On crutches but won't be for long. Full recovery in time and perhaps coming to a track near you.

:niceone: Good to hear that mate, keep on riding and ruining knee sliders, don't let the nannies get you down

[Kornholio]

Back at home after 16 weeks of hospital. On crutches but won't be for long. Full recovery in time and perhaps coming to a track near you. Watch out!

Ouch, Riding 10/10ths on the road will no longer seem fun after thrashing it around a track.

[caseye]

Sigh, sounds to me like nothings changed.
I sincerely hope it has though else the next post will be by a friend.

[Kornholio]

Sigh, sounds to me like nothings changed.
I sincerely hope it has though else the next post will be by a friend.

You asshat, he said he will be going to a track... That's a big change if you ask me :blank:

[Fast Eddie]

but knowing that 250cc me would cream inexperienced 600cc me in heavy twisties made me homesick for the mc22 again. You never really outgrow a bike like the mc22 if you’ve got a heap of hairpin twisties nearby - Mangamuka Gorge = mc22 natural habitat.

So yes, selling the mc22 or not. That’s the question.

yea more than 2 bikes is ideal, i moved up from my 250s in the usual manner.. even though iv got a nice big bike now thats well set up - I went ahead and bought a second bike, a nice light 250cc 2 stroker.

smaller bikes are fun.. small bike for a thrash around the hills, and big bike for everything else.. burnouts, annoying families at christmas etc

keep em both!

[Grubber]

260178

260179

260180

On the 18/1 I had a motorcycle accident, one week after purchasing the 600rr. I've been in bed since and have 5 weeks to go before walking. Busted left leg and pelvis. Would have died on the scene but an ambulance was minutes away on the same route and able to keep me as my pulse died. Unashamedly I give God the credit, as a Christian, for being alive today and with light injuries given the nature of the accident.

I've been told I slid out, for whatever reason, and ended sliding underneath a loaded logging truck chugging in the opposit direction up a winding section of road. All the wheels missed or I wouldn't be typing this. I finished up about halfway allong the vehicle having gone between the front wheels.

I could have tried to save my pride by keeping quite. I've seen a few accident threads here that go south fast, but it is good to be sobered up as a rider.

Be careful out there.

Why does this not surprise me!:rolleyes:

[ducatilover]

yea more than 2 bikes is ideal, i moved up from my 250s in the usual manner.. even though iv got a nice big bike now thats well set up - I went ahead and bought a second bike, a nice light 250cc 2 stroker.

smaller bikes are fun.. small bike for a thrash around the hills, and big bike for everything else.. burnouts, annoying families at christmas etc

keep em both!

I'm pretty sure my 600 is more fun than my two GNs I've had and my VT250...:msn-wink:

[Icemaestro]

Just saw this from your other thread - were you on 77 at auckland hospital? you look familiar...remember a physio talking to you about bikes?

[Grantman_]

Just saw this from your other thread - were you on 77 at auckland hospital? you look familiar...remember a physio talking to you about bikes?

Hi man, I certainly remember you. I also remember your buddy visiting the day after my final pelvis op with a walking frame thing, and saying 'we're going to get you up to walk today'. !!! (It was 13 weeks after that date I finally got the go ahead!). Glad I wasn't too doolaly to say 'I don't think so guys'! I chuckled about that one a few times.

[ducatilover]

So you're on your feet again? I've got a GN250 you can buy :bleh:

[Grantman_]

So you're on your feet again? I've got a GN250 you can buy :bleh:

Somewhat. Thanks but I've still got an infinitely better 250!

[ducatilover]

Somewhat. Thanks but I've still got an infinitely better 250!

Want a bet? I will bet you ownership papers that my GN is faster than your CBR





at using oil.

[Icemaestro]

Hi man, I certainly remember you. I also remember your buddy visiting the day after my final pelvis op with a walking frame thing, and saying 'we're going to get you up to walk today'. !!! (It was 13 weeks after that date I finally got the go ahead!). Glad I wasn't too doolaly to say 'I don't think so guys'! I chuckled about that one a few times.

Haha yeah :-) good to hear your doing better now!! Back on a bike again?

[Grantman_]

Haha yeah :-) good to hear your doing better now!! Back on a bike again?

Not as yet, but I'll get there. Sorting out gear replacement currently.

[Brett]

Good to hear your somewhat ok now mate. Sounds like a nasty crash. Perhaps time to chill a bit on the roads and get a track bike aye?

[Grantman_]

Good to hear your somewhat ok now mate. Sounds like a nasty crash. Perhaps time to chill a bit on the roads and get a track bike aye?

Sounds good to me. The road bike will suffice for a bit on a track.

[Maki]

This is a great thread, thanks Grant for your honest contribution. I wish someone could learn from this, but everyone thinks they are special, have super skills and have nothing to learn, especially when they are noobs, so they probably won't learn a thing.

Just a question regarding the video with the sparks. Is that a stock bike? somehow I think the bike should be leaning more before the sparks start flying... Does it have longer than standard pegs?

[Katman]

This is a great thread, thanks Grant for your honest contribution. I wish someone could learn from this, but everyone thinks they are special, have super skills and have nothing to learn, especially when they are noobs, so they probably won't learn a thing.

Just a question regarding the video with the sparks. Is that a stock bike? somehow I think the bike should be leaning more before the sparks start flying... Does it have longer than standard pegs?

That's what an obsession with getting your knee down gets you.

[Grantman_]

Yes, to be honest if you have stratospheric confidence and often use the road as a track you’re on a death timer, that’s the real point. Getting my knee down advanced me to that point. Knee down in itself can be done without drama in certain places; it’s the attitude desiring it you have to watch. Inconsequentially I never got the knee down on the unfamiliar, 1 week old 600 and my accident was on an unsuitable downhill corner I wouldn’t have contemplated trying it. However, I had crashes owing and I was cruising to hospital one way or another at some point.




This is a great thread, thanks Grant for your honest contribution. I wish someone could learn from this, but everyone thinks they are special, have super skills and have nothing to learn, especially when they are noobs, so they probably won't learn a thing.

Just a question regarding the video with the sparks. Is that a stock bike? somehow I think the bike should be leaning more before the sparks start flying... Does it have longer than standard pegs?

Cheers. The sparks were from the knee sliders.

[Maki]

Cheers. The sparks were from the knee sliders.

Good on you. :devil2:

[Old Steve]

Just found this thread, liked your initial post Grant.

But when I got to the video of the kneesliders through the gorge I thought WTF. It looked as if you were absolutely concentrating on getting your knee down and not focussing on the correct line through the corner. Time after time I saw mid-corner corrections and running wide. I was sorry to read you'd had your serious off, but maybe I wasn't surprised. Someone was on your side that day, and I'm thankfull you're still with us and prepared to share your experience with us.

Hope you can learn from this, I'd advise taking it a little quieter in future, get your cornering technique absolutely correct. The track day - you are looking at one aren't you - should help. A fraction of a second more through each corner isn't much compared to a life in a wheelchair or even in a box.

Take care. Less emphasis on touching the knee down and more on slow in, touch the apex correctly and smooth power out. Aim on becoming one of us older, nanny riders - my desire is to ride my bike until I'm justifiably shot at the age of 110 by a jealous husband. Like they said in WWII, there's bold pilots and old pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

[sidecar bob]

That's what an obsession with getting your knee down gets you.

And what a strange obsession it is.
Knee down on the road is basically public masturbation. It proves little more than the fact that you are a wanker.

[Grantman_]

May as well post these pics here to keep them in one spot.

For those that didn't read elsewhere, I was told I went between the front wheels of that logging truck.

Compared to several K's of twisty gorge Manfield was tame, but still the most fun I'd had since I could remember (trackday just prior to the accident).

<a href="http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/Grantman_album/?action=view&amp;current=P1090686a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/Grantman_album/P1090686a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/Grantman_album/?action=view&amp;current=Teensycrash.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/Grantman_album/Teensycrash.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[The_Duke]

..... I just don't get it.

Why have you STILL got a photo on the sig line of you with your knee down on a public road??

It makes you look like a) a tool, and b) like you haven't learned a thing from the crash! :mad:

Have you spoken to the truck driver at all? What if was you who was behind the wheel of that truck and a biker went under the wheels? How would you feel??

Sorry dude, but it's guys like you who give us all a bad name!

[caseye]

Duke, you are right, but I'd urge you to go back and read the whole thread. Ol G Man here, has had a rather large learning curve and while many here thought and said exactly what you have, we're hoping that he comes out the other end someone who can ride and ride safely.
So far, since coming back into the threads he's shown a different side , one that is prepared to learn and to ride within his own limit's without harping on about things like getting your knee down and speeding everywhere.
Good point about talking with the truckie.

[Grantman_]

..... I just don't get it.

Why have you STILL got a photo on the sig line of you with your knee down on a public road??

It makes you look like a) a tool, and b) like you haven't learned a thing from the crash! :mad:

Have you spoken to the truck driver at all? What if was you who was behind the wheel of that truck and a biker went under the wheels? How would you feel??

Sorry dude, but it's guys like you who give us all a bad name!

Okay, let's address this knee down issue because I find it vexing.

Have you ever scraped your pegs on a public road? If you have, you've done something 10x 'worse' than getting your knee down.
Have you nearly scraped your pegs on a public road? If you have, you've done the equivalent of getting your knee down.

The same statements apply to bikes offering minimal lean ability. The point being you are operating at/near-to the bikes cornering limit.

Of course those unfamiliar with hanging off and touching down recognise it as risky - for themselves. Those that can do it with their eyes closed recognise it as a means to corner tighter for any given lean angle, feel how much lean is in reserve, and stay in peak touch with bike and road. Certainly I found it much safer as opposed to leaning near the limit in upright position - being completely at home with it.

Effectively what some are saying is that people should not lean their bikes past a certain degree on a public road. Knee down is irrelevant. I can understand that statement.

Another major issue is the, innate for many, desire to find the limit. Knee down, and also the act of nearly scraping your pegs, is operating near the limit. 'Learning' to that point is best not done amongst traffic if you value life. Near maximum lean on any bike = Knee down.

[Katman]

Okay, let's address this knee down issue because I find it vexing.


The reality is that if you had learned anything from your crash you would be actively discouraging anyone else from riding on public roads in the manner that led to your demise.

The fact that you're still happy to portray yourself as some sort of road warrior shows you're paying nothing but lip service.

[Glowerss]

Okay, let's address this knee down issue because I find it vexing.

Have you ever scraped your pegs on a public road? If you have, you've done something 10x 'worse' than getting your knee down.
Have you nearly scraped your pegs on a public road? If you have, you've done the equivalent of getting your knee down.

The same statements apply to bikes offering minimal lean ability. The point being you are operating at/near-to the bikes cornering limit.

Of course those unfamiliar with hanging off and touching down recognise it as risky - for themselves. Those that can do it with their eyes closed recognise it as a means to corner tighter for any given lean angle, feel how much lean is in reserve, and stay in peak touch with bike and road. Certainly I found it much safer as opposed to leaning near the limit in upright position - being completely at home with it.

Effectively what some are saying is that people should not lean their bikes past a certain degree on a public road. Knee down is irrelevant. I can understand that statement.

Another major issue is the, innate for many, desire to find the limit. Knee down, and also the act of nearly scraping your pegs, is operating near the limit. Getting to that point is best not done amongst traffic if you value life. I can understand that near maximum lean on any bike is best not done on public roads if you value life. Knee down is irrelevant.

I showed a buddy of mine whose been racing bikes for 20 years now and has had more bikes then I care to count your first knee down video.

He said your technique sucked ass, you weren't cornering anywhere near to smoothly and you were simply slamming your knee down for the sake of getting it down there. Said you were a bit of a fuckwit actually and he was surprised you hadn't buried your head into a guardrail.

Clearly you haven't quite shaken off your delusions of grandeur. Completely at home and safer getting your knee down. Jesus H Christ.

[sidecar bob]

Or you do it because you think it will make your mates think youre awesome, until some old guy on an adventure bike rides around the outside of you, two up with luggage.

[Grantman_]

I have kept my video because for me it was an achievement. Yes I did feel as if I had accomplished something. Had I simply leaned without scuffing my knee there wouldn't be a commotion. As I said, lean angle is what it ultimately comes down to. Not whether I am scuffing my knee. Am I encouraging death defying behaviour by my angle of lean? Do you encourage death defying behaviour by nearly scraping your pegs? I'm in two minds.





He said your technique sucked ass

It should have at 6 months riding experience.

[sinfull]

Okay, let's address this knee down issue because I find it vexing.

Have you ever scraped your pegs on a public road? If you have, you've done something 10x 'worse' than getting your knee down.
Have you nearly scraped your pegs on a public road? If you have, you've done the equivalent of getting your knee down.

The same statements apply to bikes offering minimal lean ability. The point being you are operating at/near-to the bikes cornering limit.

Of course those unfamiliar with hanging off and touching down recognise it as risky - for themselves. Those that can do it with their eyes closed recognise it as a means to corner tighter for any given lean angle, feel how much lean is in reserve, and stay in peak touch with bike and road. Certainly I found it much safer as opposed to leaning near the limit in upright position - being completely at home with it.

Effectively what some are saying is that people should not lean their bikes past a certain degree on a public road. Knee down is irrelevant. I can understand that statement.

Another major issue is the, innate for many, desire to find the limit. Knee down, and also the act of nearly scraping your pegs, is operating near the limit. 'Learning' to that point is best not done amongst traffic if you value life. Near maximum lean on any bike = Knee down.
What a crok !

Riders get a knee down on a bike to guide them as to the limit of the bike yes, but they do so on a race track so they can carry maximum speed into and around a corner by altering the axis centre !

So read into this what you may, but i say you were travelling way to fast into the bend and fucked up !
Don't go glorifying getting your knee down on here, where new riders will read it and think it's an ok way to ride on the road !
Jesus H Fuckin Christ man, you aint learnt nothin !

[Katman]

Meh, you're much the same as that other retard who used to frequent this site posting videos of himself riding like a clown. He watched two of his mates die on the side of the road and still learned nothing.

Funnily enough, he claimed to be a good God fearing christian as well.

[Grantman_]

I'm going to take the advice and remove the vid. Done under duress shows how stupidly proud I am. I am blessed not to be a vegetable or in a wheelchair. Still stubborn and pushing limits, must have developed a biker's heart.

[ducatilover]

I'm kind of agreeing with Grantman here.
I can get the knee down without going fast, knee down in itself isn't an issue.
BUT: I'm pretty sure Katman agreed with me on this one; it's the attitude that 99% have and how they do it. I used to ride like a tool to get my knee down, albeit in open areas where I could "safely" fall off, then I found it could be done at relatively low speeds (ie; below the limit, way below)

Then I got a CB400 and for some reason, might be maturity, stopped riding fast.
Then I flipped my 600 doing wheelies...
Now I'm even more careful.

My theory is: knee down isn't so bad if you can do it well within a bikes limit, it's very fun to do. But the issue as I said, is rider attitude.
This is why we steer people away from it, because the majority have to be dicks on their rides to do it.


And let's face it, a ride on a good sounding bike at a moderate pace well within your comfort zones, is one of the best feelings :banana:

[george formby]

some old guy on an adventure bike rides around the outside of you, two up with luggage.


:cool:You been following me?

[Katman]

Done under duress shows how stupidly proud I am.

Did you ever take up Kiwifruit's offer of some practical tuition?

Or were you too stupidly proud for that as well?

[tbs]

Meh, you're much the same as that other retard who used to frequent this site posting videos of himself riding like a clown. He watched two of his mates die on the side of the road and still learned nothing.

Funnily enough, he claimed to be a good God fearing christian as well.

The Astronaut John Glenn said it best when he said "Putting yourself in harm's way and then relying on God to get you out of trouble is no kind of faith at all".


Grantman, I too believe in God, and I'm willing to concede that he kept you alive for a reason.... or maybe he just let the dice roll and you came up Aces. Only He knows.

But I want you to think about this: If God kept you alive for a reason, it isn't anything to do with what or who you are now. It is because the kind of man you could grow up to become. And I reckon a good start on that journey would be to STOP TALKING AND START LISTENING to some of the older and wiser heads around here.
Oh, and go and read up on the apostle Paul's comments on pride.

[Glowerss]

Did you ever take up Kiwifruit's offer of some practical tuition?

Or were you too stupidly proud for that as well?

I thought kiwifruit offered practical tuition to that cock on a ZX6r who posted that video of himself being a dick on the highway, then the video of him crashing at like 10kph the first time he found even the slightest corner, and fucked himself up something fierce magically. Name escapes me at the moment.

Don't think that was grantman. Granted, the squids with cameras all sort of look the same.

[Ender EnZed]

I thought kiwifruit offered practical tuition to that cock on a ZX6r who posted that video of himself being a dick on the highway, then the video of him crashing at like 10kph the first time he found even the slightest corner, and fucked himself up something fierce magically. Name escapes me at the moment.

Don't think that was grantman. Granted, the squids with cameras all sort of look the same.

Westy_Tard

[GrayWolf]

Okay, let's address this knee down issue because I find it vexing.

Have you ever scraped your pegs on a public road? If you have, you've done something 10x 'worse' than getting your knee down.
Have you nearly scraped your pegs on a public road? If you have, you've done the equivalent of getting your knee down.

The same statements apply to bikes offering minimal lean ability. The point being you are operating at/near-to the bikes cornering limit.

Of course those unfamiliar with hanging off and touching down recognise it as risky - for themselves. Those that can do it with their eyes closed recognise it as a means to corner tighter for any given lean angle, feel how much lean is in reserve, and stay in peak touch with bike and road. Certainly I found it much safer as opposed to leaning near the limit in upright position - being completely at home with it.

Effectively what some are saying is that people should not lean their bikes past a certain degree on a public road. Knee down is irrelevant. I can understand that statement.

Another major issue is the, innate for many, desire to find the limit. Knee down, and also the act of nearly scraping your pegs, is operating near the limit. 'Learning' to that point is best not done amongst traffic if you value life. Near maximum lean on any bike = Knee down.

Grantman' to put it bluntly.. utter bloody shite!!!
You've learnt nothing..... Knee down is a 'track technique'... watch the IOM TT race, which is done on REAL roads, not a track.. ther is no 'knee down' antics performed. Sticking the knee out was started by John Surtees, because an MV he rode handled so badly it was the only way he could get it to corner.... BTW J Surtees is called 'Mr Stylist'. Hailwood, Agostini, Surtees....look them up on Youtube and learn how a bike can be ridden extremely fast without climbing all over it.. Surtees till recently still rode club racing, and using his 'clasic style' still gave outstanding lap times....
You were/are a bloody newbie and reckon you were 'completely' at home with riding with your knee out? I watched the vid of your ride on the CBR250.... on any one of those corners you left yourself 0% in reserve.. in fact you were 100% hard out, on corners that you didnt need to be 100% hard out on...... and as my wee 'spill' last weekend shows, you dont need to be at 100% to break concentration for a split second, fuck up your line entering a corner, and dump your arse on the road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yv6fXm2JBY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUqgsykSsuo

[ducatilover]

Isle of Man knee down, just to be a dick
267972

I'll get me coat 'n leave now

[Quasi]

Bloody wonderful videos Graywolf. Thanks!


Grantman' to put it bluntly.. utter bloody shite!!!
You've learnt nothing..... Knee down is a 'track technique'... watch the IOM TT race, which is done on REAL roads, not a track.. ther is no 'knee down' antics performed. Sticking the knee out was started by John Surtees, because an MV he rode handled so badly it was the only way he could get it to corner.... BTW J Surtees is called 'Mr Stylist'. Hailwood, Agostini, Surtees....look them up on Youtube and learn how a bike can be ridden extremely fast without climbing all over it.. Surtees till recently still rode club racing, and using his 'clasic style' still gave outstanding lap times....
You were/are a bloody newbie and reckon you were 'completely' at home with riding with your knee out? I watched the vid of your ride on the CBR250.... on any one of those corners you left yourself 0% in reserve.. in fact you were 100% hard out, on corners that you didnt need to be 100% hard out on...... and as my wee 'spill' last weekend shows, you dont need to be at 100% to break concentration for a split second, fuck up your line entering a corner, and dump your arse on the road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yv6fXm2JBY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUqgsykSsuo

[scracha]

Well at least Grantman is honest about road not being a racetrack

Seriously though, does anyone else reckon it'd be a good thing for the mods to sticky the OP with a couple of hyperlinks to the crash posts. Clearly demonstrates how useless the whole learners process and test is. Also put a link to a couple of other "new biker nervous -> yay passed my test -> bugger in hospital within a week" threads. R6 anyone?

[Grantman_]

Always onward. Carving up the track on the MC22. What a fantastic machine this has been, and still is.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JC38axv1DcQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[BigAl]

Great footage Grant, you were really holding your own against those 600s.

Horse power is sometimes a disadvantage as that guy who high sided showed, bugger.

Bet the bike was not pretty:facepalm:

[bosslady]

Well this sure has been an interesting thread. As a learner myself I'm certainly in no position to comment on rider ability and technique. What strikes me is gosh... I don't know... I'm speechless.You're everything I would never want to be and that's all I can say. And yes, I did read from start to finish... Unbelievable.

[Glowerss]

Always onward. Carving up the track on the MC22. What a fantastic machine this has been, and still is.


You did fairly well on the track against the bigger machines. Love hearing a 250 IL4 screaming its head off. Well done on taking that kind of riding to the track where that shit belongs.

You might survive a bit longer if you can restrain yourself and keep it off the streat :eek:

Good to see you upright and on two wheels again, however. I wouldn't ever wish ill on another rider, so glad you came out alright :Punk:

[ducatilover]

I would be quite embarrassed when I get dicked by a guy on a CBR with less than half the HP of my ZX6...
Nice riding dude, impressive and it looked fun

(btw, I'll give you a drag race on my GN :bleh: )

[GrayWolf]

I would be quite embarrassed when I get dicked by a guy on a CBR with less than half the HP of my ZX6...
Nice riding dude, impressive and it looked fun

(btw, I'll give you a drag race on my GN :bleh: )

BOLLOX,
try riding over the 'taka's on an FJ1200, and being OVERTAKEN by a smokey, ratshit looking 150cc smoker.......... Enter Quallman....:bleh::bleh:

[ducatilover]

BOLLOX,
try riding over the 'taka's on an FJ1200, and being OVERTAKEN by a smokey, ratshit looking 150cc smoker.......... Enter Quallman....:bleh::bleh:
I got left behind by an FJ over there once.
I'm not saying what I was riding.

That's how much I fail, the FJ isn't anywhere near decent handling :facepalm:

[GrayWolf]

I got left behind by an FJ over there once.
I'm not saying what I was riding.

That's how much I fail, the FJ isn't anywhere near decent handling :facepalm:

Bwahahahahaa!! :nya::nya::nya: You reckon? Then dont EVER ride any of the 1970/1980's "superbikes' pre FJ1100. That was the first 'DECENT?' frame the Japs made in the litre plus bracket. Any frames prior to that were a case of the engine massively overpowering the frame and cycle parts.

[Subike]

Bwahahahahaa!! :nya::nya::nya: You reckon? Then dont EVER ride any of the 1970/1980's "superbikes' pre FJ1100. That was the first 'DECENT?' frame the Japs made in the litre plus bracket. Any frames prior to that were a case of the engine massively overpowering the frame and cycle parts.


Lol, I should let him take my XS1100 for a ride over some hills, mmmmm, wriggly bitch she is at speed

[ducatilover]

Bwahahahahaa!! :nya::nya::nya: You reckon? Then dont EVER ride any of the 1970/1980's "superbikes' pre FJ1100. That was the first 'DECENT?' frame the Japs made in the litre plus bracket. Any frames prior to that were a case of the engine massively overpowering the frame and cycle parts.
It's all relative, I'm aware of this :2thumbsup
They handle like shit. At the time an Austin 7 was a fantastic car and my ZZR600 was an awesome small bike, it's a slow heavy pig by todays standards

Goes to show, it's all about the rider though. Quite embarrassing being learnt by an FJ

XS, rode one a while back, I liked it. Too heavy for a tiny bugger like me sadly :weep: can't reverse it...