Riding on gravel

[Matariki]

I hate gravel with a passion. The other day I was riding out to a mates house only to come to the entrance of the drive way and land flat on my face. :facepalm:
What was even worse that I was unable to pick up my bike, fortunately two gentlemen stopped by and gave me a hand. None the less it was embarrassing.

My question is how should avoid this sort of situation in the future and how do you pick up a heavy bike after making yourself look stupid?

[superman]

I hate gravel with a passion. The other day I was riding out to a mates house only to come to the entrance of the drive way and land flat on my face. :facepalm:
What was even worse that I was unable to pick up my bike, fortunately two gentlemen stopped by and gave me a hand. None the less it was embarrassing.

My question is how should avoid this sort of situation in the future and how do you pick up a heavy bike after making yourself look stupid?

Was it huge stone gravel? I started riding on just straight dirt and grass first with the bike and when you feel proficient on that you move onto gravel and then large stone gravel. Never feels any nice but you can get quite used to it. Seeing as all my neighbours driveways are hilled gravel. :facepalm:

[NotHisRealName]

I'd suggest hooking up with some dirt riders and learning how to ride it. I mean no disrespect - I'm planning on doing just that, myself.

From what I've seen, it's important to stand up on the pegs to lower your center of gravity, and to primarily use your rear break to slow and stop (unlike when on the sealed roads) as a rear-wheel skid is easier to control than on the front.

[Jantar]

Gravel riding on a road bike is a topic that comes up quite frequently, yet it is nothing to be scared of. The main things to remember are to weight your footpegs and allow the bike to move around under you. Ride in one gear higher than you would on the seal. Slow down early for corners. Use your rear brake to balance the bike (a bit like a sea anchor) but your front brake is still the one to slow you down. Look well ahead and anticipate the road surface.

There is a lot of good advice in http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=24616

[Gremlin]

A, practise picking up your bike in better conditions. Unfortunately, the gn is rather light already, but there is a technique as well.

B, you can't really avoid gravel in NZ, so best to practise to get better.

To pick up the bike, have your back to the bike, hands on bar and subframe, then walk backwards. Hard to explain, but there is vid somewhere, or get someone to show you.

[bogan]

don't panic brake on gravel, you'll lock up and lose control, then bin it (sounds like you may know this already). Gravel riding is a bit of an experience thing, you want to ease into it, trying to remember what that bloke said on the internet as you hit a patch going to quick ain't gonna help; unless the advice was 'tuck and roll' :laugh: I'm not really sure the best way to get experience, but with gravel you learn to just ride a bit looser, let the bike move around a bit on it; which I guess is scary if learning it. I started riding dirt before road so was used to it. In saying that, the best way of course, is to see it and slow down.

picking up bikes, lift from the bars as you get more leverage that way

[steve_t]

Probably not very easy once the bike is down on gravel but

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If you do it like the vid, make sure your stand is down! ;)

[Matariki]

I've ridden on gravel plenty of times before without problems, but I ran into big loose gravel which threw me off, literally. I've always had trouble with with large loose gravel.

[Gremlin]

Let the bike move around a little, you don't want a death grip on the bars. If the stones are really big, I just slow down to a crawl and bump my way over the stones.

[p.dath]

Gravel riding on a road bike is a topic that comes up quite frequently, yet it is nothing to be scared of. The main things to remember are to weight your footpegs and allow the bike to move around under you. Ride in one gear higher than you would on the seal. Slow down early for corners. Use your rear brake to balance the bike (a bit like a sea anchor) but your front brake is still the one to slow you down. Look well ahead and anticipate the road surface.

There is a lot of good advice in http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=24616

That link is broken. This is what it should be:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/24616-Riding-Gravel-on-a-Sprotsbike

[Crisis management]

I hate gravel with a passion.

That's your problem.....once you start to "hate" something, whether it's gravel or wet roads you are going to struggle with it, you tense up and make the bike crash (the bike is perfectly happy on any surface, it's the rider that has the crash).

The GN is actually quite a capable gravel basher as are most bikes and you need to learn the skills to ride on it, as Gremlins' mentioned stay loose on the controls (don't bother standing up) and start off slowly giving yourself plenty of time to brake and change direction, as your confidence builds and you get used to the bike sliding around you will find your speed building.
Braking takes a bit of getting used to as you need to be able to brake to the point of lock up and control the braking at that point, this is because your amount of traction varies constantly on gravel and dirt surfaces so you are always modulating the brakes. I use both brakes, applying the rear first to settle the suspension, then the front with most of my braking power coming from the front brake as the rear is generally sliding around.

My suggestions.... find some hard packed dirt / gravel roads and practise on them first to get your head used to "dirt versus seal", you will be surprised how much traction there is. Just ride down the road back and forth for a while then practice braking in a straight line then corners. Stop, admire the countryside, calm your heart rate, repeat a few more times then do something else. Come back in a couple of days and repeat.
Once you feel confident with that type of surface you have essentially conquered dirt roads! Find some heavier gravel and repeat the procedure.

As you're riding slowly there is little chance of hurting yourself, you may fall off once or twice but it's only scratches and scuffs on the paint and thats just an opportunity to laugh at yourself and entertain your friends with the story. The worst that can happen is you will still dislike gravel but you will know you can ride on it if you have to.

Good luck and post the photos!

Here's my contribution.......

[awa355]

That's your problem.....once you start to "hate" something, whether it's gravel or wet roads you are going to struggle with it, you tense up and make the bike crash (the bike is perfectly happy on any surface, it's the rider that has the crash).

The GN is actually quite a capable gravel basher as are most bikes and you need to learn the skills to ride on it, as Gremlins' mentioned stay loose on the controls (don't bother standing up) and start off slowly giving yourself plenty of time to brake and change direction, as your confidence builds and you get used to the bike sliding around you will find your speed building.
Braking takes a bit of getting used to as you need to be able to brake to the point of lock up and control the braking at that point, this is because your amount of traction varies constantly on gravel and dirt surfaces so you are always modulating the brakes. I use both brakes, applying the rear first to settle the suspension, then the front with most of my braking power coming from the front brake as the rear is generally sliding around.

My suggestions.... find some hard packed dirt / gravel roads and practise on them first to get your head used to "dirt versus seal", you will be surprised how much traction there is

Good luck and post the photos!

Here's my contribution.......

How the fuck did you drop it there?? Having said that, roads rarely run on/off bridges at the same level. Theres usually a decent jump up or off the ends.

[Crisis management]

How the fuck did you drop it there??

I actually lost the front on the other side of the bridge, and with incredible skill managed to slide it over the bridge (you can see the skid marks on the bridge).....I was busy standing up looking over the handrail at the river when it happened so I reckon it had nothing to do with me! :innocent:



If you reckon that's bad, you should have seen the highside later in the day.....and yes, you can get enough traction to highside in gravel!

[awa355]

I actually lost the front on the other side of the bridge, and with incredible skill managed to slide it over the bridge (you can see the skid marks on the bridge).....I was busy standing up looking over the handrail at the river when it happened so I reckon it had nothing to do with me! :innocent:



If you reckon that's bad, you should have seen the highside later in the day.....and yes, you can get enough traction to highside in gravel!

Wasn't too sure whether the skid marks came from you or the tyres.
Glad to see you survived to fall over once again.

I have had one 'off' on gravel using the front brake going into a downhill corner. Does running wide and finishing up in the watertable still upright and sitting on the bike count as an off? Nah, not when no one saw it

[bogan]

The GN is actually quite a capable gravel basher


certainly is, my old flat ended up with a pretty decent rut in our gravel driveway from a GN


Here's my contribution.......

thats pretty impressive!

[DEATH_INC.]

Does running wide and finishing up in the watertable still upright and sitting on the bike count as an off? Nah, not when no one saw it
No, I've used the watertable to get around corners I've hit too fast plenty of times :facepalm:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Probably not very easy once the bike is down on gravel but


If you do it like the vid, make sure your stand is down! ;)

I've gotta say mate...in my opinion that is the worst way you could EVER try and life your bike up! It amazes me how many so called 'experts' recommend that. But there aren't many people that've had to 'right' bikes more often than me, and I'm only a lil fella. Both hands through the end of the bars is the ONLY way to do it.

[steve_t]

I've gotta say mate...in my opinion that is the worst way you could EVER try and life your bike up! It amazes me how many so called 'experts' recommend that. But there aren't many people that've had to 'right' bikes more often than me, and I'm only a lil fella. Both hands through the end of the bars is the ONLY way to do it.

You may be right, though I don't know how little you are. The above technique is the only way my missus can pick up a bike. She's 5'2" ish and about 45kg. I'd say if you can lift a bike by the bars, do it that way. Most small females seem to have relatively poor upper body strength :shutup::innocent:

[bogan]

You may be right, though I don't know how little you are. The above technique is the only way my missus can pick up a bike. She's 5'2" ish and about 45kg. I'd say if you can lift a bike by the bars, do it that way. Most small females seem to have relatively poor upper body strength :shutup::innocent:

that just means she's closer to it to start off with :innocent: easier that way init?

once watched a guy pick his up from the high side, just yanking on the grip. Had a good laugh then was pretty surprised when he got it.

[steve_t]

that just means she's closer to it to start off with :innocent: easier that way init?

once watched a guy pick his up from the high side, just yanking on the grip. Had a good laugh then was pretty surprised when he got it.

Yeah, I always tell her she has the advantage of being closer to the ground and also having a lower centre of gravity :sunny:

LOL. That dude must have been massive!

[Crasherfromwayback]

You may be right, though I don't know how little you are. The above technique is the only way my missus can pick up a bike. She's 5'2" ish and about 45kg. I'd say if you can lift a bike by the bars, do it that way. Most small females seem to have relatively poor upper body strength :shutup::innocent:

5'11" and 85kgs. But regardless...through the end of the bars is the only way mate!

I hade to (more often that I care to admit) pick up 255kgs worth of 883 Harley race bike, and it's easy done correctly.

[BMWST?]

I actually lost the front on the other side of the bridge, and with incredible skill managed to slide it over the bridge (you can see the skid marks on the bridge).....I was busy standing up looking over the handrail at the river when it happened so I reckon it had nothing to do with me! :innocent:



If you reckon that's bad, you should have seen the highside later in the day.....and yes, you can get enough traction to highside in gravel!

i starting to see why you felt like you would be better off without 90 odd hp

[bart]

Both hands on lower bar. Swing it toward the tank, then lift like shit. By getting the bar to full lock, the front wheel acts as a lever against the ground, and does half the work for you.

My 2 c. Has worked for me on dirt and sports bikes. I'm only 5 foot FA. Never had to lift a Harley though. :msn-wink:

[buellbabe]

OK so what do you do if the relatively nice gravelly dirt suddenly changes to a pit slightly longer than your bike and you have just sunk into it ...then given it a bit of herb to stop the bike wallowing and falling over and exited the other side of the pit with a full tank slap while still on gravel???

This actually happened to me recently.

Is it best to try and ride out the tank slap? Or would it be better to gently come to halt (if thats possible without getting spat off) ????

Really curious as to what a profficient gravel/stone/dirt rider would do in this situation.

[Motu]

Apply throttle,or use the rear brake as a sea anchor.

[DEATH_INC.]

Let it sort itself out, it will, as soon as you stop trying to make it. RELAX!

[Crisis management]

A bit of what the last two said.....apply throttle (progressively), hang on with your legs and core, loose on the bars and let it settle down. Generally my front end is waving all over the place on gravel so it sounds about normal but if it's a full blown tank slapper I imagine the first thing you really know is that your sitting on the side of the road wondering what happened.
So, how did it work out?

[That looks like fun]

Here's my contribution.......

They said "look at the falls" :niceone: not "fall on ya balls" :doh: Mokau falls bridge?

[Motu]

One of the reasons modern bikes don't do so well in thick gravel (apart from the tyres) is what happens to the contact patch....it moves forwards,and reduces trail,maybe even turning it negative.Modern bikes (sportsbikes) have much less trail than they used to,less than dirt bikes these days...all for quick steering,so reducing trail is not good for stability.My old Airhead has a shit load of trial,120mm...so it's super stable in thick stuff,even with road tyres.

[oldrider]

I've ridden on gravel plenty of times before without problems, but I ran into big loose gravel which threw me off, literally. I've always had trouble with with large loose gravel.

You appear to have surrendered to gravel, you should not be intimidated by the various surfaces you are challenged with!

Change your attitude, make gravel your friend, look for and practice riding your bike on every type of surface that you think you may one day be required to negotiate!

If you avoid this you will not become an accomplished and confident bike rider, whereas if you conquer your fears and these seemingly insurmountable hazards, you will feel better about yourself, your bike and enjoy your riding more!

Go for it, the least you will get is practice at picking up your bike! :niceone:

[Crisis management]

They said "look at the falls" :niceone: not "fall on ya balls" :doh: Mokau falls bridge?

Dunno actually, a couple of bridges before Waikaremoana campground IIRC, I don't recall seeing any waterfalls but I was a bit distracted by the ground rushing past my nose.

Where's your contribution from that extensive library you have......:innocent:

[BMWST?]

One of the reasons modern bikes don't do so well in thick gravel (apart from the tyres) is what happens to the contact patch....it moves forwards,and reduces trail,maybe even turning it negative.Modern bikes (sportsbikes) have much less trail than they used to,less than dirt bikes these days...all for quick steering,so reducing trail is not good for stability.My old Airhead has a shit load of trial,120mm...so it's super stable in thick stuff,even with road tyres.

and the lose trail effect is made worse by smaller diameter wheels.....all the road bikes used have 19 in front wheels when i was a boy....and is why 21 inch wheels better than 19 etc etc...you get the same effect with your big front tyre

[b1g-fuLLa]

I rode on gravel 4kms, twice a day on a borrowed gn250 for a few weeks for a temporary farming job. Uphill, downhill, plenty of corners too. I found the gn to be great on gravel (was a mixture of large stones, small stones, and packed dirt) just be light on the gas (not that the gn has any power anyway :bleh:), light on the brakes, and dont lean too much. Slow down well before any corners, and as previously said, weight the footpegs, front brake for slowing (go easy or you will slide!!) rear brake for balance. And remember to loosen up, as you would on a windy day, cause the bike WILL be moving beneath you. Albeit not alot if you're riding correctly, but for a new rider to gravel its a very different feel.

My zxr isnt the best on gravel, but quite comfortably cruise at 65kph on most gravel roads. Just practice, and start slow.


I once hit a fresh gravel patch on a road at night at 100kph (i think someone stole the roadworks sign) on my old rg150. SCARY SHIT, Didnt even see it as the oncoming dickhead had his full beams on

[swbarnett]

One thing I learnt about gravel last week was :-

Don't go too slow on a banked corner!

I was doing a very rare excursion on to gravel on the CBX550 inland from Waiwera. I'm a nervous rider on gravel (a lot better after this day) and virtually stopped rounding a banked left hander. The bike slid out from under me straight in to the gutter. Thankfully I was going slow enough that all that really happened was that I stopped and lay the bike down gently. I managed to get upright easily enough but then I was standing in a ditch about 200mm deep about twice as wide as my wheel (or the width of a modern sports bike wheel) with a near vertical bank to my left. I inched the bike to where the camber stopped, turned the front full lock to the right and slid out of the ditch with the back spinning and the front going sideways until it bit.

Later that day I was very glad I'd been through the above as I rounded similar corner telling myself repeatedly "keep your speed up". If I hadn't these corners would've been less forgiving - offering alternately either a barbed wire fence or a steep drop.

[rocketman1]

I have ridden several thousand kms on gravel, mainly on adventure and moto-cross bikes, but also a bit on sports bikes.
There are many factors that make up problems for road bikes on gravel.
Some of them being:
The type of tyres you have on your bike.
And the width and tread pattern, also the pressure in the tyres.
Ideally the narrower tyres, on larger diameter wheels, with a chunkier tread pattern and a lower tyre pressure will be better. ie motocross tyres, the further you get away from those type tyres to a slick wide road tyre the worse things get.

Also the type of gravel is a big variance, in the north island you generally get a more broken rock type gravel, similar to GAP40-65 for those engineers amongst us.
In the South Island the gravel is generally more rounded smaller river stones which causes another problem. Also it depends on the weather, a little rain often makes the gravel stickier and easier to ride, too much rain and its more slippy than dry?
Deep gravel can cause all sorts of problems, if you have room to accelerate out of it its best to, "if in doubt, accelerate out" this doesnt always suit though, ie going down hill into a turn, or if there is hundreds of metres of the loose gravel ahead, accelerating could make the trip over the handle bars all the more painful.

The worst scenario is being the first riders over a gravel road where the grader has just scrapped all the gravel on the side of the road back into a big loose pile in the middle, this calls for careful, standing on the pegs, knees tucked into the tank, leave the front brake alone, if you have to stop use the back brake only.changing down to the lower gears to slow is also a good option for slowing.
Its a very hard thing to describe as there are many many variables, that really can only be taught by getting out there on the gravel for many hundreds of kms and riding the stuff.
And just when you think you have it sorted something else will crop up to break your bones and your bike, just as I found out.
When you get back on the tarseal you realize how easy it all is.

[Matariki]

I've been practicing around the place, mostly going out to the beaches and mountainous areas, anywhere that there are long gravel roads with plenty of corners. At the moment I'm focusing on relaxing my grip, I notice that my handling becomes much less flexible when I tighten the grip, I have to keep reminding myself to relax. Otherwise besides that, the GN is an amazingly forgiving bike.

I am thinking about changing the tires on my GN, but I'm not sure to what type, yet alone what effect it will have on my current riding.

[tri boy]

I am thinking about changing the tires on my GN, but I'm not sure to what type, yet alone what effect it will have on my current riding.


Bridgstone trailwings in the correct sizes will be just finefor your needs.
They also have very good road manners on smaller bikes.
There are different tread patterns, and browsing your local shop, and asking advise will see you right.
No need to spend a fortune, just get something a bit more agressive than road tyres. MHO

[Grasshopperus]

Why is the diameter of the tyre important?

[chasio]

Why is the diameter of the tyre important?

Coz if the tyre's diameter is too big it'll roll off the rim?

:innocent:

Someone will be along with a sensible answer about trail and angle of attack and all that stuff presently. Please hold, caller.

[That looks like fun]

Where's your contribution from that extensive library you have......:innocent:

SO you want to learn how to fall off correctly on gravel roads :woohoo:

Gravel is just another road surface, the main difference is that the surface is not held in place by tar so it can move :yes: (read slowly if I am going to fast for you).
Unless you are only ever going to ride on the same type of road surface with the same bike and the same load, road temp, tyre pressures, yada yad yada etc :gob: sooner or later you are going to need to make an alteration to that most technical part of the bike :not:
(Fanfare of trumpets please) The RIDER :banana::clap::scooter:
Treat every road surface as something that wants to beat you up and do your best to keep the bike between you and this violent road :girlfight:
First and most simple, speed (alright you bastards stop laughing about my off now:love:) Slow down to a speed that allows enough time to do what you "need to" do. Its like riding in the rain. Smooth, steady relaxed but alert :ride:
Do your braking in the braking area, if you don't know where this is learn. Accelerate smoothly (unless you are winning then ROOST ROOST ROOST!:blip:). Ride the bike don't fight it.
If you get into a situation where your skills are not good enough to get you out of and you end up wrecking your shoulder and sticking you bike down a deep ditch :innocent: Don't worry about what you did wrong in the situation, worry about how you got yourself into that situation in the first place :yes::yeah:

[george formby]

May I add... the throttle is your friend. Just like tarmac, if you look where you want to go on gravel, use a positive throttle ( your traveling at a controlled speed ) keep your weight central & do not clench the bars in a death grip the bike will steer through quite deep gravel without mishap. Even on road tires.. with a pillion.